Future for bison

[KC Bison]

I checked the list of schools that have transitioned from FCS to FBS since 2010. Teams include:
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina Univ.
Georgia Southern Univ.
Georgia State Univ.
Liberty Univ.
Univ. of North Carolina, Charlotte
Old Dominion Univ.
Univ. of South Alabama
Texas State Univ.

And now, James Madison
Sam Houston
Jacksonville Univ.

Who have I missed? There may be some other teams that moved up from competition levels other than FCS.

This list includes many of the powers that we have had to face in FCS playoffs. It now appears that FCS football is being more and more watered down every year. FCS is looking more and more like D-2 football. What next... Morningside reappearing in the MVFC.

I'm not saying we have to go FBS but we can start to assume that it's not a lot more than D-2 any more.

OK fire away.

[tjamz]

Ughh...... another thread on this?

[NDSUBowler]

Lol

Ten char

[bajadanny]

I checked the list of schools that have transitioned from FCS to FBS since 2010. Teams include:
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina Univ.
Georgia Southern Univ.
Georgia State Univ.
Liberty Univ.
Univ. of North Carolina, Charlotte
Old Dominion Univ.
Univ. of South Alabama
Texas State Univ.

And now, James Madison
Sam Houston
Jacksonville Univ.

Who have I missed? There may be some other teams that moved up from competition levels other than FCS.

This list includes many of the powers that we have had to face in FCS playoffs. It now appears that FCS football is being more and more watered down every year. FCS is looking more and more like D-2 football. What next... Morningside reappearing in the MVFC.

I'm not saying we have to go FBS but we can start to assume that it's not a lot more than D-2 any more.

OK fire away.

Pretty sad NDSU has to figure something out one way or the other. totally agree d-2 situation looming

[1st&TennBison]

Ughh...... another thread on this?

Yeah, I guess the other 15 threads that this is being talked about in are just not enough

[No_Skill]

If we were stuffing more fans in the dome, moving up would be gravy.

[NDSU92]

I’m Pro-FBS and I think all these threads are getting annoying

[semobison]

I checked the list of schools that have transitioned from FCS to FBS since 2010. Teams include:
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina Univ.
Georgia Southern Univ.
Georgia State Univ.
Liberty Univ.
Univ. of North Carolina, Charlotte
Old Dominion Univ.
Univ. of South Alabama
Texas State Univ.

And now, James Madison
Sam Houston
Jacksonville Univ.

Who have I missed? There may be some other teams that moved up from competition levels other than FCS.

This list includes many of the powers that we have had to face in FCS playoffs. It now appears that FCS football is being more and more watered down every year. FCS is looking more and more like D-2 football. What next... Morningside reappearing in the MVFC.

I'm not saying we have to go FBS but we can start to assume that it's not a lot more than D-2 any more.

OK fire away.

Wow, another FBS thread! I’ll play.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t go FBS but all the teams above are geographically south and east.

[NovaBison]

Who have I missed? There may be some other teams that moved up from competition levels other than FCS.


You missed UT San Antonio... another one of those transitional teams with a pathetic losing record in the FCS but had an invite to the FBS before they even played a game... much like UNC Charlotte and Georgia State -- they were commuter schools in large metropolitan areas, so they were automatically "deemed" FBS ready -- news flash -- large metropolitan areas also have NFL teams, and nobody gives a crap about the local college teams -- I grew up in the Twin Cities and have lived the past 26 years in DC Metro... nobody cared about the goofs when i was growing up, and nobody cares about Maryland VT or UVA here (unless maybe your an alum).

Until the leaders of these G5 conferences pull their heads out of their asses and realize its not about "# of tv screens in a metro area" and instead realize they need teams with a winning culture and rabid fan bases if they want to up their profile... then NDSU will get some conferences sniffing around.

[KC Bison]

As some of you geniuses didn't read, this wasn't a post about going FBS. It was about the watering down of FCS.

[1998braves64]

As some of you geniuses didn't read, this wasn't a post about going FBS. It was about the watering down of FCS.Which also was part of the other threads.. :facepalm:

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[1st&TennBison]

which also was part of the other threads.. :facepalm:

Sent from my pixel 3a xl on a bullet train from hillsboro.

b-11.............bingo.

[NDSU92]

As some of you geniuses didn't read, this wasn't a post about going FBS. It was about the watering down of FCS.

Oh ok, that’s why you titled it “Future for Bison” lol come on

[BigHorns]

Yes, some good teams have left, but new ones will replace them.

Sam Houston and JMU were not that strong back when App St left.
Over 10 years, we have lost around 12 schools, but if you filter out the schools that weren't making it past the quarterfinals, the list shrinks a lot.
This year it just felt a little more dramatic because two schools that can make it to the semis or beyond left at once.
We still have other contenders like Montana, Montana St, EWU, SDSU and the MVFC, and schools like Kennesaw emerging.

Sam Herder addressed this question pretty well in his Hero Sports podcast here at around the 18 minute mark:
https://herosports.com/fcs-podcast-jmu-fbs-bzbz/

[scottietohottie]

Yes, some good teams have left, but new ones will replace them.

Sam Houston and JMU were not that strong back when App St left.
Over 10 years, we have lost around 12 schools, but if you filter out the schools that weren't making it past the quarterfinals, the list shrinks a lot.
This year it just felt a little more dramatic because two schools that can make it to the semis or beyond left at once.
We still have other contenders like Montana, Montana St, EWU, SDSU and the MVFC, and schools like Kennesaw emerging.

Sam Herder addressed this question pretty well in his Hero Sports podcast here at around the 18 minute mark:
https://herosports.com/fcs-podcast-jmu-fbs-bzbz/

The old saying will get a new twist. Win the valley twice.
Come to ndsu to win the valley twice. Ain't that nice?

[TAILG8R]

Yes, some good teams have left, but new ones will replace them.

Sam Houston and JMU were not that strong back when App St left.
Over 10 years, we have lost around 12 schools, but if you filter out the schools that weren't making it past the quarterfinals, the list shrinks a lot.
This year it just felt a little more dramatic because two schools that can make it to the semis or beyond left at once.
We still have other contenders like Montana, Montana St, EWU, SDSU and the MVFC, and schools like Kennesaw emerging.

Sam Herder addressed this question pretty well in his Hero Sports podcast here at around the 18 minute mark:
https://herosports.com/fcs-podcast-jmu-fbs-bzbz/

I get what you are saying and I have heard Sam and other media types say similar things. The big thing for me is when it's talked about it seems like everyone is saying other schools will "replace" them as the top tier schools. Which is ok on the surface but my question is this: Will other schools replace them because those programs get better or will other schools replace them simply because they are the best of what's left.

That's my biggest worry and frankly what I think is and will continue to happen. The top tier schools in the FCS will become those that are the best of what's left and not schools that stepped up their programs to become elite.

[scottietohottie]

And how is Sam Houston not good 14 years ago? They are definitely a peer.

[SomeBeach]

I get what you are saying and I have heard Sam and other media types say similar things. The big thing for me is when it's talked about it seems like everyone is saying other schools will "replace" them as the top tier schools. Which is ok on the surface but my question is this: Will other schools replace them because those programs get better or will other schools replace them simply because they are the best of what's left.

That's my biggest worry and frankly what I think is and will continue to happen. The top tier schools in the FCS will become those that are the best of what's left and not schools that stepped up their programs to become elite.


I totally agree with you. Moreover, I fear the move up to FBS by the former elite of the FCS will further drain away the talent previously considering playing FCS.

[56BISON73]

I totally agree with you. Moreover, I fear the move up to FBS by the former elite of the FCS will further drain away the talent previously considering playing FCS.

There are only so many schollies a team has to offer. So its not like a bunch of kids are going FBS when there isnt a place offering them.

[BigHorns]

There are only so many schollies a team has to offer. So its not like a bunch of kids are going FBS when there isnt a place offering them.

Yes, and we are also only talking about 3 out of 128 FCS teams moving over the next few years. I could see it changing recruiting battles slightly in the local region where those schools are located, but overall it is background noise. Bison recruiting will not be impacted by this, neither will other MFVC or Big Sky team recruiting.

[fmfantasy]

Those schools wont be replaced easily.. all those other top schools left a decade ago and we went on to win 8 of 10 titles. Now 3 of the teams we have faced for a title and the only schools left to have beaten us in a playoff game in the last 11 years will be gone.. Montana and SDU etc arent really competition as they havent stopped us from doing anything in 11 years.... IF anyone outside the MVFC or EWU wins a title the next decade I will be shocked.. If NDSU only wins 8 of the next 10 it would have to be considered a letdown.. barring injury or really bad luck they shouldnt lose 2 playoff games the next decade.

[NDSUstudent]

Yes, some good teams have left, but new ones will replace them.

Sam Houston and JMU were not that strong back when App St left.
Over 10 years, we have lost around 12 schools, but if you filter out the schools that weren't making it past the quarterfinals, the list shrinks a lot.
This year it just felt a little more dramatic because two schools that can make it to the semis or beyond left at once.
We still have other contenders like Montana, Montana St, EWU, SDSU and the MVFC, and schools like Kennesaw emerging.

Sam Herder addressed this question pretty well in his Hero Sports podcast here at around the 18 minute mark:
https://herosports.com/fcs-podcast-jmu-fbs-bzbz/

LOL...JMU won a title in 2004 and was in the semifinals in 2008. I would say there were plenty strong before App left. Nobody is going to replace these schools, there will just be an even bigger void. Just look at the SoCon since it lost those schools, it has never recovered and is now basically the Patriot League of the South.

[ByeSonBusiness]

You missed UT San Antonio... another one of those transitional teams with a pathetic losing record in the FCS but had an invite to the FBS before they even played a game... much like UNC Charlotte and Georgia State -- they were commuter schools in large metropolitan areas, so they were automatically "deemed" FBS ready -- news flash -- large metropolitan areas also have NFL teams, and nobody gives a crap about the local college teams -- I grew up in the Twin Cities and have lived the past 26 years in DC Metro... nobody cared about the goofs when i was growing up, and nobody cares about Maryland VT or UVA here (unless maybe your an alum).

Until the leaders of these G5 conferences pull their heads out of their asses and realize its not about "# of tv screens in a metro area" and instead realize they need teams with a winning culture and rabid fan bases if they want to up their profile... then NDSU will get some conferences sniffing around.

Ndsu doesn't have a rabid fan base though

[SDbison]

Ndsu doesn't have a rabid fan base though For its relative size NDSU has a good number of fans who tailgate and travel to far away games. NDSU top 3 in FCS and likely in top third of G5 schools. Playing pud FCS teams and charging $50 a ticket doesn't help bring in more fans.

[EC8CH]

For its relative size NDSU has a good number of fans who tailgate and travel to far away games. NDSU top 3 in FCS and likely in top third of G5 schools. Playing pud FCS teams and charging $50 a ticket doesn't help bring in more fans.

Agree with all of this.

[BigHorns]

For its relative size NDSU has a good number of fans who tailgate and travel to far away games. NDSU top 3 in FCS and likely in top third of G5 schools. Playing pud FCS teams and charging $50 a ticket doesn't help bring in more fans.

Maybe they will consider lowering prices next year to fill the dome, but it seems like part of the trouble has been people with tickets who don't attend the games. A few I know only want to go to "big" games now.

[pantherhawkrolling]

Nobody asked me, but I'm doing the rounds before the FCS playoffs today and it's a free country, so I'll give my unsolicited opinion. I would likely be a bad mistake for NDSU to go to FBS. Sure, maybe it could go the Boise State route, but so often it goes the Idaho route. NDSU's success is based upon 1) being a non-directional university and all that comes with it in a subdivision of largely directional universities, in other words being a big fish in a small pond and 2) tradition, and all that means with recruiting, attitude, and the types of coaches you attract. #2 comes with winning. Sure, you could join the Sun Belt of the Mid-American and win like you are now, but that is worse than the FCS since you get a rather meaningless conference title and minor bowl, rather than a shot at the national title. I'm not saying you would not win at a better conference, but honestly I think the quaity of NDSU football would degrade. Right now you are the best of the second-best, that all goes away in FBS. Also, I come on this board and people think the sky is falling and talking changes when they are riding a 13 game winning-streak and tied at the half with a ranked team. I can only imagine what a two game losing streak and no titles would do.

[Gopher24]

I am a non NDSU fan living in Fargo. I would absolutely go to more NDSU games if they were FBS.

Im actually considering starting to go to 1-2 games a year even if they stay in FCS.

The last time I went to a Bison game was against UND around 2004.

[BiZon22]

Nobody asked me, but I'm doing the rounds before the FCS playoffs today and it's a free country, so I'll give my unsolicited opinion. I would likely be a bad mistake for NDSU to go to FBS. Sure, maybe it could go the Boise State route, but so often it goes the Idaho route. NDSU's success is based upon 1) being a non-directional university and all that comes with it in a subdivision of largely directional universities, in other words being a big fish in a small pond and 2) tradition, and all that means with recruiting, attitude, and the types of coaches you attract. #2 comes with winning. Sure, you could join the Sun Belt of the Mid-American and win like you are now, but that is worse than the FCS since you get a rather meaningless conference title and minor bowl, rather than a shot at the national title. I'm not saying you would not win at a better conference, but honestly I think the quaity of NDSU football would degrade. Right now you are the best of the second-best, that all goes away in FBS. Also, I come on this board and people think the sky is falling and talking changes when they are riding a 13 game winning-streak and tied at the half with a ranked team. I can only imagine what a two game losing streak and no titles would do.

This posts just smells of not knowing anything lmao. The sun belt is a pretty solid conference now. Speaking of teams moving up. How are App State, GSU, Coastal doing?

[BigHorns]

This posts just smells of not knowing anything lmao. The sun belt is a pretty solid conference now. Speaking of teams moving up. How are App State, GSU, Coastal doing?

True, but the Sun Belt won't add NDSU. Our only realistic options are MWC or MAC.
MWC would be perfect, MAC is sort of a lateral move, but maybe we could schedule better OOC games.

[HerdBot]

As some of you geniuses didn't read, this wasn't a post about going FBS. It was about the watering down of FCS.

Yeah this will likely be the last good year of the playoffs and eventually it will be half Missouri Valley and Big Sky teams

[fmfantasy]

Nobody asked me, but I'm doing the rounds before the FCS playoffs today and it's a free country, so I'll give my unsolicited opinion. I would likely be a bad mistake for NDSU to go to FBS. Sure, maybe it could go the Boise State route, but so often it goes the Idaho route. NDSU's success is based upon 1) being a non-directional university and all that comes with it in a subdivision of largely directional universities, in other words being a big fish in a small pond and 2) tradition, and all that means with recruiting, attitude, and the types of coaches you attract. #2 comes with winning. Sure, you could join the Sun Belt of the Mid-American and win like you are now, but that is worse than the FCS since you get a rather meaningless conference title and minor bowl, rather than a shot at the national title. I'm not saying you would not win at a better conference, but honestly I think the quaity of NDSU football would degrade. Right now you are the best of the second-best, that all goes away in FBS. Also, I come on this board and people think the sky is falling and talking changes when they are riding a 13 game winning-streak and tied at the half with a ranked team. I can only imagine what a two game losing streak and no titles would do.

How many Second best(actually third best) titles do we have to win before no one cares? 13 of 15- 18 of 20? Id rather lose two exciting FBS games back to back then lose two games in the next 5 years with an average margin of victory of 35
points...

[taper]

True, but the Sun Belt won't add NDSU. Our only realistic options are MWC or MAC.
MWC would be perfect, MAC is sort of a lateral move, but maybe we could schedule better OOC games.
How is the MWC perfect? Forget bus trips, there isn't even another school in our time zone. Our athletic budget is ~$24M, theirs are $40-50M. Tell me how we double our budget before dreaming of grandeur.

[Kevin]

How is the MWC perfect? Forget bus trips, there isn't even another school in our time zone. Our athletic budget is ~$24M, theirs are $40-50M. Tell me how we double our budget before dreaming of grandeur.

We have a forum full of boomers who are statistically hoarding a disproportionate amount of the nations wealth.

We seize that and we can probably join the big 10/12.

[NDSU1980]

How is the MWC perfect? Forget bus trips, there isn't even another school in our time zone. Our athletic budget is ~$24M, theirs are $40-50M. Tell me how we double our budget before dreaming of grandeur.

I swore I was done discussing this, but I've got to ask, what FBS conference are you will to accept and get us into? You don't like the MWC, you don't like the CUSA, and you don't seem to like the MAC. There's nothing else left, that only leaves................FCS FOREVER It's embarrassing how you shoot down every suggestion made.

[Bison 4 Life]

I swore I was done discussing this, but I've got to ask, what FBS conference are you will to accept and get us into? You don't like the MWC, you don't like the CUSA, and you don't seem to like the MAC. There's nothing else left, that only leaves................FCS FOREVER It's embarrassing how you shoot down every suggestion made.

Stop acting like this is a choice.

No FBS conference wants NDSU. This is like Mankato State saying why does everyone think we're DII forever.

[taper]

I swore I was done discussing this, but I've got to ask, what FBS conference are you will to accept and get us into? You don't like the MWC, you don't like the CUSA, and you don't seem to like the MAC. There's nothing else left, that only leaves................FCS FOREVER It's embarrassing how you shoot down every suggestion made.

The minimum requirements for a successful jump are an invite, money, and regional partners. We have none of those, and you FBS or bust crowd have never explained how we get any of them. Sorry if reality doesn't stroke your ego.

[scottietohottie]

Well on the Kevin and cas podcast they just called them all bitches.*

[scottietohottie]

Matt Larsen's stance on the fbs move is the same one he uses on the playoff committee. If anyone mentions ndsu and fbs he leaves the room.

[BigHorns]

How is the MWC perfect? Forget bus trips, there isn't even another school in our time zone. Our athletic budget is ~$24M, theirs are $40-50M. Tell me how we double our budget before dreaming of grandeur.

Of course costs would go up some for additional scholarships and travel, but so would revenues. A lot of what pushes teams to FBS is the additional revenues. Conference media deal, guarantee games, sponsorships, etc all go up.

A lot of schools hire consultants to crunch the numbers, but nearly all studies done show FBS is better financially than FCS. That might not be true in CUSA with their crap media deal, but is with every other conference. NDSU could do one of these "feasibility" studies if needed.

I don't believe we would need to double our budget to be competitive. We beat FBS teams now when they will play us. Imagine how good the Bison could be with the same system, additional scholarships and the FBS label for recruiting.

[NDSU1980]

The minimum requirements for a successful jump are an invite, money, and regional partners. We have none of those, and you FBS or bust crowd have never explained how we get any of them. Sorry if reality doesn't stroke your ego.

So you're saying we're going to be FBS Forever.

[oldmantutters]

Of course costs would go up some for additional scholarships and travel, but so would revenues. A lot of what pushes teams to FBS is the additional revenues. Conference media deal, guarantee games, sponsorships, etc all go up.

A lot of schools hire consultants to crunch the numbers, but nearly all studies done show FBS is better financially than FCS. That might not be true in CUSA with their crap media deal, but is with every other conference. NDSU could do one of these "feasibility" studies if needed.

I don't believe we would need to double our budget to be competitive. We beat FBS teams now when they will play us. Imagine how good the Bison could be with the same system, additional scholarships and the FBS label for recruiting.State Radio, I mean Bison 1660 said that research had been done and that the additional costs to move up "were not as much as people think." I think that was in regards to a football only move, which is what the "FBS at all costs" people, as they have been dubbed, want.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[BigLakeBison]

How is the MWC perfect? Forget bus trips, there isn't even another school in our time zone. Our athletic budget is ~$24M, theirs are $40-50M. Tell me how we double our budget before dreaming of grandeur.

Is it a fair statement to say that some of the difference in budget is due to debt obligation on facilities? The way our state laws and requirements are we can’t borrow for new facilities, we have to fundraise in advance. Others can borrow and pay back after. This actually makes me feel like our financial position is much stronger than others. The day to day operating dollars at NDSU is very much in line with most of the G5. For all the limitations of the fargodome, it is a really good financial situation for NDSU. We pay almost nothing for the Fargodome compared to other programs who own and operate all of their facilities.

[BigHorns]

Is it a fair statement to say that some of the difference in budget is due to debt obligation on facilities? The way our state laws and requirements are we can’t borrow for new facilities, we have to fundraise in advance. Others can borrow and pay back after. This actually makes me feel like our financial position is much stronger than others. The day to day operating dollars at NDSU is very much in line with most of the G5. For all the limitations of the fargodome, it is a really good financial situation for NDSU. We pay almost nothing for the Fargodome compared to other programs who own and operate all of their facilities.

Thats true, but I don't know how we will ever expand to 30k capacity without debt if the $300 million someone threw out is even close to accurate. This is a problem we likely have to solve to join the MWC. For the MAC I think we are fine as is.

[BigLakeBison]

Thats true, but I don't know how we will ever expand to 30k capacity without debt if the $300 million someone threw out is even close to accurate. This is a problem we likely have to solve to join the MWC. For the MAC I think we are fine as is.

If expansion to 30k capacity is what makes a MWC invite possible, then yes it is an obstacle to overcome. That being said, I personally believe that our geography for the Olympic sports and their lack of strength compared to other MWC teams is the bigger hinderance to an invite from MWC. Overcoming those obstacles would be able to be addressed much cheaper than building a new stadium.

[BigHorns]

If expansion to 30k capacity is what makes a MWC invite possible, then yes it is an obstacle to overcome. That being said, I personally believe that our geography for the Olympic sports and their lack of strength compared to other MWC teams is the bigger hinderance to an invite from MWC. Overcoming those obstacles would be able to be addressed much cheaper than building a new stadium.

Not sure it will be an entry requirement, but I think MWC will want to see expansion plans that take us to 25-30k. That is on the smaller side of their existing stadiums.


https://youtu.be/U2qBVIQFp1U

[Bisonator98]

I personally don't want an NDSU in the MWC. If it's FB only until we can get into a better regional fit so be it but the geography and timezones would be a horrible fit. I'd actually prefer the MAC over the MWC. May not be as good a conference right now but it could be better with us and a couple other adds.

[BigHorns]

I personally don't want an NDSU in the MWC. If it's FB only until we can get into a better regional fit so be it but the geography and timezones would be a horrible fit. I'd actually prefer the MAC over the MWC. May not be as good a conference right now but it could be better with us and a couple other adds.

It doesn't scream big time, but MAC is probably the best fit for us outside of the MVFC. It feels like a lateral move competition wise.
MVFC may not be FBS in 20 years though, I don't think anyone other than SDSU and Missouri St could make the jump, and it feels like a stretch for them.

[NodakGreg]

I checked the list of schools that have transitioned from FCS to FBS since 2010. Teams include:
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina Univ.
Georgia Southern Univ.
Georgia State Univ.
Liberty Univ.
Univ. of North Carolina, Charlotte
Old Dominion Univ.
Univ. of South Alabama
Texas State Univ.

And now, James Madison
Sam Houston
Jacksonville Univ.

Who have I missed? There may be some other teams that moved up from competition levels other than FCS.

This list includes many of the powers that we have had to face in FCS playoffs. It now appears that FCS football is being more and more watered down every year. FCS is looking more and more like D-2 football. What next... Morningside reappearing in the MVFC.

I'm not saying we have to go FBS but we can start to assume that it's not a lot more than D-2 any more.

OK fire away.

Not much to say. Nothing matters other then continuing tradition playing Bison football at the highest level, putting more and more players into the NFL more then any of those teams listed past FCS and current FCS teams, and not worrying about FBS UNTIL Mr.Larson announces that NDSU has been invited to ANY FBS conference. Until then Play Baaalll! Lets live for this playoff and stampede to Frisco like we use too!!
No need to bring this up anymore until it gets REAL.
Be Herd - Titletown of College football.

Nodak Greg