Our offensive identity is lost

[HerdBot]

This offense is a shell of its former self and it's identity has been lost

We used to be a pro style West Coast offense that used a fullback and running backs. We would pull our guards on sweeps and pound the rock.

Now we do read option every play and out QB is our leading rusher.

It may work with an elite QB like Trey Lance but this is becoming a trend of mediocre play over 2 years.

Our old pro style offense was so unique, teams struggled prepping for it in the playoffs, especially on short notice.

Now we look like everyone else. We're predictable and easy to prep for

[TAILG8R]

This offense is a shell of its former self and it's identity has been lost

We used to be a pro style West Coast offense that used a fullback and running backs. We would pull our guards on sweeps and pound the rock.

Now we do read option every play and out QB is our leading rusher.

It may work with an elite QB like Trey Lance but this is becoming a trend of mediocre play over 2 years.

Our old pro style offense was so unique, teams struggled prepping for it in the playoffs, especially on short notice.

Now we look like everyone else. We're predictable and easy to prep forIt's almost like our OC isn't very smart.

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[DAS BISON]

It's almost like our OC isn't very smart.

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This is the smartest comment I've seen all day.

[WeAreThePride]

The best players on our offense aren't being put in a position to contribute. We have two of the best tight ends in the subdivision and they only get targeted what, 3, 4 times a game? We have possibly THE best receiver in the subdivision and his typical stat line is about 3 targets for two catches and 50 yards. I could live with it if he's drawing double teams on every down allowing for efficient short and medium passes, and I'm sure he would be fine with it too, but that's just not the way it's working.

Yet again our quarterback is our leading rusher. That is unacceptable.

The defense did enough to win. The offense did not.

The backs are being given no opportunity to develop a rhythm. It's rare that one lines up as the prime tailback more than two plays in a row. And I'm not a scheme expert, but it seems like our backs are getting tackled in the backfield for minus 2 yards way, way way too often. Whose fault is that? O line? Tight end blocking? I've never seen a supposedly good team have that many TFLs so often.

[Bison03]

It's almost like our OC isn't very smart.

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NDSU’s record with him calling games would prove otherwise

[WeAreThePride]

NDSU’s record with him calling games would prove otherwise

responses like this start to wear thin. He's 1-2 against SDSU, and would be 0-3 if he didn't have an NFL quarterback in '19. This isn't the Bison offense that won 7 titles. This is something else.

[Kevin]

NDSU’s record with him calling games would prove otherwise

Ok now look at those numbers vs top 10 competition.

[scottietohottie]

NDSU’s record with him calling games would prove otherwise

Holy hell dude. This is exactly why we can't have nice things and will be stuck in pud division for ever where we'll be the biggest toughest midget ever. Keep on keepin on deer tag

[Twincitybizon]

NDSU’s record with him calling games would prove otherwise

We used to win with players who weren't the best. They weren't as elite of athletes but played with grit, toughness, and discipline. Now we are better. We should win but the offense looks terrible. It's not loading our even winning it's how it's getting done. Poor undisciplined play that is ugly to watch. Oc is not getting it done. OL is not getting it done

[scottietohottie]

Ok now look at those numbers vs top 10 competition.

This guy plays madden with Lamar Jackson and runs on every play bro.

[HerdBot]

NDSU’s record with him calling games would prove otherwise

What's his record if you remove the Trey Lance year?

Without the 1 Trey game last year we were 6-3, got bent over be Southern Illinois and Sam Houston. Lost to SDSU last year at home

This year, we are 8-1 and have won despite the offense. The defense and special teams won most of those games We inflated our numbers vs some hideous teams and barely beat UND, Missouri State and lost to SDSU. The offense has been God awful in the red zone going on 2 years now

A guy that is the epitome of Bison football turned us into the opposite of Bison Football

[G_Funky]

Someone get the Mont St staff on the phone


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[HerdBot]

Ok now look at those numbers vs top 10 competition.

I would argue top 10 isn't even good in the FCS anymore. You got teams like Kennesaw, UC Davis and Southeastern Louisiana in the top 10. Next year the top 10 will include teams like Austin Peay and Incarnate Word

[bisonaudit]

I would argue top 10 isn't even good in the FCS anymore. You got teams like Kennesaw, UC Davis and Southeastern Louisiana in the top 10. Next year the top 10 will include teams like Austin Peay and Incarnate Word

Are we talking about in a poll or the actual 10 best teams? Not that I disagree with the notion that the division is going to shit, just for clarity’s sake.

[Professor Chaos]

It all comes down to the O-line. The Bison O-line got manhandled today by the SDSU D-line. Numerous times there were Jackrabbit d-lineman in the backfield with the Bison o-lineman tasked to block them face down in the turf or chasing behind them. This might be the best group of skill players NDSU has ever had outside of QB and I still think Cam is an adequately skilled QB to make this offense rock. But the o-line is not what we've grown used to over the last 10 years.

[bajadanny]

It all comes down to the O-line. The Bison O-line got manhandled today by the SDSU D-line. Numerous times there were Jackrabbit d-lineman in the backfield with the Bison o-lineman tasked to block them face down in the turf or chasing behind them. This might be the best group of skill players NDSU has ever had outside of QB and I still think Cam is an adequately skilled QB to make this offense rock. But the o-line is not what we've grown used to over the last 10 years.

Entz is a d-2 coach no more need to be said

[TAILG8R]

Why do so many of our run plays take FOREVER to develop?

Watching the QB extend his arm as far as it goes and then run 5 yards to hand the ball off so the RB gets met 3-4 yards deep in the backfield is a painful thing to watch 12-15 times a game.

The thing is, with a great online that could still work but to see the same results 50+ times this year and not adjust ... that is why so many of us think Roehl isn't very good.

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[Snowgoose]

It all comes down to the O-line. The Bison O-line got manhandled today by the SDSU D-line. Numerous times there were Jackrabbit d-lineman in the backfield with the Bison o-lineman tasked to block them face down in the turf or chasing behind them. This might be the best group of skill players NDSU has ever had outside of QB and I still think Cam is an adequately skilled QB to make this offense rock. But the o-line is not what we've grown used to over the last 10 years.

The Oline has been bad for two years now. We get no push against good teams, none. SDSU was able to get pressure all day with four which is sad. Maybe our oline coach needs to go, but I am no expert in that area. Plus they had terrible penalties today. Phil was going nuts on the radio.

[Professor Chaos]

Entz is a d-2 coach no more need to be said
I'm not ready to go that far. I think he's adequate with the potential but to be very good as a head coach but he needed to hire an experienced offensive coach to run his offense since he has very little experience on that side of the ball. I still think Roehl could be a good OC some day but he was not the right hire at the right time. Hedberg would've been the better choice but the best choice was likely to bring in someone from outside of the previous coaching staff if they weren't retaining Messingham.

[bajadanny]

I'm not ready to go that far. I think he's adequate with the potential but to be very good as a head coach but he needed to hire an experienced offensive coach to run his offense since he has very little experience on that side of the ball. I still think Roehl could be a good OC some day but he was not the right hire at the right time. Hedberg would've been the better choice but the best choice was likely to bring in someone from outside of the previous coaching staff if they weren't retaining Messingham.

For sure need a new o line coach, still think entz is d 2 just a matter of time until we all realize taht

[tjbison]

I'm not ready to go that far. I think he's adequate with the potential but to be very good as a head coach but he needed to hire an experienced offensive coach to run his offense since he has very little experience on that side of the ball. I still think Roehl could be a good OC some day but he was not the right hire at the right time. Hedberg would've been the better choice but the best choice was likely to bring in someone from outside of the previous coaching staff if they weren't retaining Messingham.

Hedberg is Associate HC and QB coach, pretty sure he has some input in the Offense, which why I'm wondering wtf is going on, is TR such a blockhead he won't listen, or is the whole staff fucking blind now.

Its very strange, imo

[CAS4127]

The Oline has been bad for two years now. We get no push against good teams, none. SDSU was able to get pressure all day with four which is sad. Maybe our oline coach needs to go, but I am no expert in that area. Plus they had terrible penalties today. Phil was going nuts on the radio.

Our run scheme is simpleton. Defenses can T off at snap. That makes things very difficult for the Oline.

Would really like to see us implement a toss sweep if we are going to continue with what we are doing inside the tackles. We aren’t giving our Oline a fair chance IMO.

And, not to mention that we have only 1 elite RB .... that we use as a blocker and TE way more than as a RB.

If I were head coach, I would be looking at my entire roster, sans linemen, to find players who were great RBs in HS, and give all of them a fair look at RB. Think about it ... every team we play has at least 1, if not 2, better RBs than we do.

[Snowgoose]

Our run scheme is simpleton. Defenses can T off at snap. That makes things very difficult for the Oline.

Would really like to see us implement a toss sweep if we are going to continue with what we are doing inside the tackles. We aren’t giving out Oline a fair chance IMO.

And, not to mention that we have only 1 elite RB .... that we use as a blocker and TE way more than as a RB.

If I we’re headed coach, I would be looking at my entire roster, sans linemen, to find players who were great RBs in HS, and give all of them a fair look at RB. Think about it ... every team we play had at least 1, if not 2, better RBs than we do.

I agree on the RBs but I can’t fathom why we don’t use Bussey o thirds downs and swing it to him periodically in the flat. I have been saying this for years. Phil was saying today on the radio as well.

[scottietohottie]

I'm not ready to go that far. I think he's adequate with the potential but to be very good as a head coach but he needed to hire an experienced offensive coach to run his offense since he has very little experience on that side of the ball. I still think Roehl could be a good OC some day but he was not the right hire at the right time. Hedberg would've been the better choice but the best choice was likely to bring in someone from outside of the previous coaching staff if they weren't retaining Messingham.

I blame that 4th down td on entz not calling timeout. Shit he calls a timeout and they probably kick a field goal there. No excuse. He was just as baffled as the defense and got hung up watching the game. That's not a great coach. And he's had time to practice calling timeouts by now. And then when he does decide to use them it's odd timing as well.

[scottietohottie]

John Crockett was the last feature back we've really had. Young healthy Bruce would have could have but it didn't work out. We've gone so long now with this running back by committee that I feel it hurts the recruiting. Tyler Roehl is really going to hurt recruiting real soon. No way Watson and the tight ends can be happy about what happens on Saturdays.

[CAS4127]

I agree on the RBs but I can’t fathom why we don’t use Bussey o thirds downs and swing it to him periodically in the flat. I have been saying this for years. Phil was saying today on the radio as well.

Yeah! Toss him the ball in space and let him make a play.

[reformedUNDfan]

John Crockett was the last feature back we've really had. Young healthy Bruce would have could have but it didn't work out. We've gone so long now with this running back by committee that I feel it hurts the recruiting. Tyler Roehl is really going to hurt recruiting real soon. No way Watson and the tight ends can be happy about what happens on Saturdays.

Lance Dunn, but that really just supports your point

[BisonAccountant44]

The defense did enough to win. The offense did not.


Did you watch the 1st half? Our defense didn't start playing the game until midway through the 3rd. We gave up 140+ yards on like 9 carries including 75 on the 2nd play of the game. The defense sucked today.

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[gavin2126]

Lance Dunn, but that really just supports your point

I remember him subbing out every play too with Bruce, Frazier, Morlock

[WeAreThePride]

Why do so many of our run plays take FOREVER to develop?

Watching the QB extend his arm as far as it goes and then run 5 yards to hand the ball off so the RB gets met 3-4 yards deep in the backfield is a painful thing to watch 12-15 times a game.

The thing is, with a great online that could still work but to see the same results 50+ times this year and not adjust ... that is why so many of us think Roehl isn't very good.

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Exactly. From a QB perspective, a power sweep is the same play. The QB is giving the ball to the back, and can't change his mind based on post snap reads because his head is turned! Why not do the quick toss, and let the back get up to speed while the blocking is still intact!!!

[WeAreThePride]

I'm not ready to go that far. I think he's adequate with the potential but to be very good as a head coach but he needed to hire an experienced offensive coach to run his offense since he has very little experience on that side of the ball. I still think Roehl could be a good OC some day but he was not the right hire at the right time. Hedberg would've been the better choice but the best choice was likely to bring in someone from outside of the previous coaching staff if they weren't retaining Messingham.

With this talent, Messingham would be putting up 40 points a game, even against good defenses. The absolute atrophy we're seeing is sickening.

[CAS4127]

With this talent, Messingham would be putting up 40 points a game, even against good defenses. The absolute atrophy we're seeing is sickening.

Well said. No matter who our opponent is, and regardless of whether their D is statistically good or bad, they aren’t losing sleep over defending against our O. More specifically, they are likely giddy about how easy we are to defend.

Yeah, we have won 8 games, but it’s not because of our O.

I’m tired of this shitshow.

[oldmantutters]

NDSU’s record with him calling games would prove otherwiseHi Tyler!

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[oldmantutters]

We used to win with players who weren't the best. They weren't as elite of athletes but played with grit, toughness, and discipline. Now we are better. We should win but the offense looks terrible. It's not loading our even winning it's how it's getting done. Poor undisciplined play that is ugly to watch. Oc is not getting it done. OL is not getting it doneWhen this run got started we could live with other teams beating the Bison, but we could also count on the Bison not beating the Bison. They didn't make silly mistakes, for the most part. And they didn't take stupid penalties that would extend drives.

Now the Bison game much better talent but I think they've strayed away from discipline that used to be so prevalent

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[ZHerd]

Once we had some talent our offense was much better under Vigen than what we have. How good would those offenses be with our current TE and WR? How scary would our offense have been with Trey under Messingham?

[NDSU92]

Once we had some talent our offense was much better under Vigen than what we have. How good would those offenses be with our current TE and WR? How scary would our offense have been with Trey under Messingham?

Only loosers question winners according to our HC

[GRAFTONBISON]

Only loosers question winners according to our HC

We were not winners today so time will tell if he thinks anybody can ask questions this week

[HerdBot]

Once we had some talent our offense was much better under Vigen than what we have. How good would those offenses be with our current TE and WR? How scary would our offense have been with Trey under Messingham?

Vigen had very limited talent at the skilled positions outside of running back. We were a system offense and executed it perfectly. We won with players like Nate Moody, Trevor Gerhart and Ryan Smith. Later guys like RJ Urzendowski. Zack Vraa was as good as it got. Solid players but certainly not Christian Watson.

[NDSUstudent]

The too many offenses might be the most spot on comment I have seen regarding what Roehl is doing, none of which are we a master of really and nothing is setting up or complimenting each other. You need an identity when you don't have a talent like Trey running the helm. We are going to have few QBs that have a cannon for an arm and can run like a gazelle. Entz needs to call in Hedberg and have him work with Roehl on cutting back the offense and building around the strengths that we have.

[bisonaudit]

The too many offenses might be the most spot on comment I have seen regarding what Roehl is doing, none of which are we a master of really and nothing is setting up or complimenting each other. You need an identity when you don't have a talent like Trey running the helm. We are going to have few QBs that have a cannon for an arm and can run like a gazelle. Entz needs to call in Hedberg and have him work with Roehl on cutting back the offense and building around the strengths that we have.

I agree with building around strengths, but it feels like we run 6 plays sometimes, we’re so predictable. What do you want to cut back.

[EndZoneQB]

Our run scheme is simpleton. Defenses can T off at snap. That makes things very difficult for the Oline.

Would really like to see us implement a toss sweep if we are going to continue with what we are doing inside the tackles. We aren’t giving our Oline a fair chance IMO.

And, not to mention that we have only 1 elite RB .... that we use as a blocker and TE way more than as a RB.

If I were head coach, I would be looking at my entire roster, sans linemen, to find players who were great RBs in HS, and give all of them a fair look at RB. Think about it ... every team we play has at least 1, if not 2, better RBs than we do.

I was thinking about this before the game...and actually pretty often when I hear about SDSU. Remember when we used to be RBU? They just keep reloading with stud RBs and we can't seem to find ONE anymore. How are we constantly unable to recruit one of the most important positions in our system? I have to believe it's some of the "no feature back" stubbornness...or what? Why wouldn't a stud RB want to come to NDSU?

[NDSUstudent]

I agree with building around strengths, but it feels like we run 6 plays sometimes, we’re so predictable. What do you want to cut back.

QB designed runs.....But then I would cut 2/3 of the offense. Cam is a nice player but we have more dynamic playmakers that need to get the ball more. Roll him out more, work in the TEs and backs more, he is a great thrower in the short to intermediate range. I would also cut back the RB rotation, find a few backs that compliment each other and feed them the majority of the load.

[gavin2126]

I was thinking about this before the game...and actually pretty often when I hear about SDSU. Remember when we used to be RBU? They just keep reloading with stud RBs and we can't seem to find ONE anymore. How are we constantly unable to recruit one of the most important positions in our system? I have to believe it's some of the "no feature back" stubbornness...or what? Why wouldn't a stud RB want to come to NDSU?

We do have one in Williams and I think Gonella would be if we gave him enough touches. But instead we pound our QB and a pair of scat backs up the middle 70% of the time.

[WeAreThePride]

I was thinking about this before the game...and actually pretty often when I hear about SDSU. Remember when we used to be RBU? They just keep reloading with stud RBs and we can't seem to find ONE anymore. How are we constantly unable to recruit one of the most important positions in our system? I have to believe it's some of the "no feature back" stubbornness...or what? Why wouldn't a stud RB want to come to NDSU?

We recruit plenty of RB talent. But we refuse to use them to their potential by not spreading the field. Derrick Henry would have a hard time running into the stacked boxes and predictable plays we're trying to use and run against.

I say again, having our QB be our leading rusher every other week is not acceptable playcalling.

[Bison Bridge Guy]

We do have one in Williams and I think Gonella would be if we gave him enough touches. But instead we pound our QB and a pair of scat backs up the middle 70% of the time.

Gonella runs hard but always seems to be limping when he goes to the sideline. Not sure what his situation is.

[Professor Chaos]

We do have one in Williams and I think Gonella would be if we gave him enough touches. But instead we pound our QB and a pair of scat backs up the middle 70% of the time.
Agreed! I was actually encouraged that Tamerick Williams got more carries today. I just don't see why Kobe keeps getting the carries he's getting. He and Bussey are just not guys who break tackles... they can run around people but not through them. Gonnella is hurt and apparently so is Luepke (right???). Give Williams 20 carries a game if that's the case.

[SiouxHockeyBisonFo]

This is much more of a line and play calling issue. I don't care who the rb is. With nowhere to run and people in the backfield, it just doesn't matter.

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[ZHerd]

Agreed! I was actually encouraged that Tamerick Williams got more carries today. I just don't see why Kobe keeps getting the carries he's getting. He and Bussey are just not guys who break tackles... they can run around people but not through them. Gonnella is hurt and apparently so is Luepke (right???). Give Williams 20 carries a game if that's the case.

If John Crockett was on our roster he would be splitting carries with Kobe and Gonnella. I agree though, Williams is the only back I’m seeing making something out of nothing

[Son of a Bison]

Feed the hot hand. Every game. Repeat. This is Bison football.

Our Oline needs to look at themselves deep this week. Wanna see some draft talent show themselves Billy Turner style.

[Kevin]

If John Crockett was on our roster he would be splitting carries with Kobe and Gonnella. I agree though, Williams is the only back I’m seeing making something out of nothing

Crockett was the lone feature back his senior year.

He would be #1 on this roster too.

[RonMexico]

Crockett was the lone feature back his senior year.

He would be #1 on this roster too.

And Roehl would probably still run the QB 75% of the time...

[ZHerd]

Crockett was the lone feature back his senior year.

He would be #1 on this roster too.

In a sensible world. In our world he would split carries with Kobe, Gonnella and co

[steelbison]

NDSU’s record with him calling games would prove otherwise

9-3 playoff game. Impressive correct? Look at out last three games
against SDSU.

Also don’t forget we have more talent than the teams we are playing.


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[G_Funky]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…while the play calling has been suspect…hiring Dan Larson to coach the o-line was an absolute abomination of a coaching hire. With an offense that TRADITIONALLY runs a pro style/run first offense, you’d think there would be guys lined up out the door looking for an opportunity to coach the Bison o line…and you hire a guy with absolutely zero experience to coach the most critical part of our offensive scheme?! Wtf is even that? I realize AJ leaving in January wasn’t ideal…but you’re telling me between January and the start of fall camp there was no opportunity to hire a tried and true o line coach?

Our o line play was gross in the spring and it’s barely better this fall. We are as soft up the middle as I’ve ever seen in the last 10 years. We used have absolute dudes holding down the guard and center positions. Why do you think we can’t run A gap power to save our ass? It’s because every play one of those three is getting beat. When you aren’t physically bigger or stronger than the opponent, you need to be able to beat them using technique. Having a guy who’s never coached the position just creates a situation where both the players and the coach are learning the position. And that’s all fine and dandy if your VCSU or Whap Science…but at NDSU, it is absolutely unacceptable.


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[garbageman]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…while the play calling has been suspect…hiring Dan Larson to coach the o-line was an absolute abomination of a coaching hire. With an offense that TRADITIONALLY runs a pro style/run first offense, you’d think there would be guys lined up out the door looking for an opportunity to coach the Bison o line…and you hire a guy with absolutely zero experience to coach the most critical part of our offensive scheme?! Wtf is even that? I realize AJ leaving in January wasn’t ideal…but you’re telling me between January and the start of fall camp there was no opportunity to hire a tried and true o line coach?

Our o line play was gross in the spring and it’s barely better this fall. We are as soft up the middle as I’ve ever seen in the last 10 years. We used have absolute dudes holding down the guard and center positions. Why do you think we can’t run A gap power to save our ass? It’s because every play one of those three is getting beat. When you aren’t physically bigger or stronger than the opponent, you need to be able to beat them using technique. Having a guy who’s never coached the position just creates a situation where both the players and the coach are learning the position. And that’s all fine and dandy if your VCSU or Whap Science…but at NDSU, it is absolutely unacceptable.


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This is one post I agree with. He isn’t getting the job done

[semobison]

I agree that our Oline play is not what it has been. You can talk skill positions all you want but our championship teams won the battles in the trenches. That was our identity!

[dewey]

Agreed! I was actually encouraged that Tamerick Williams got more carries today. I just don't see why Kobe keeps getting the carries he's getting. He and Bussey are just not guys who break tackles... they can run around people but not through them. Gonnella is hurt and apparently so is Luepke (right???). Give Williams 20 carries a game if that's the case.

Agreed. I am encouraged that Williams got so many touches. Have TW, Gonnella and Leupke be our 3 bell cows.

Like others have mentioned get the stretch plays to the outside and build in some play action roll out back the other way.

The only outside run we have is a jet sweep.

Dewey

[GrizTurnedFightingHawk]

Gosh I love watching Bisonville crash and burn. Not gonna lie, it was magical watching Strong make that long run TD down NDSU’s throat to start the game. Summed up who’s Big Brother now. FCS teams have caught up to NDSU’s dominance, and NDSU has slightly declined and leveled out. Many other FCS teams and fans are sick and tired of cocky Bison fans “Look at us look at our trophy case blah blah blah”. Go ahead move up to the FBS please, FCS would be just fine without you.

[semobison]

Gosh I love watching Bisonville crash and burn. Not gonna lie, it was magical watching Strong make that long run TD down NDSU’s throat to start the game. Summed up who’s Big Brother now. FCS teams have caught up to NDSU’s dominance, and NDSU has slightly declined and leveled out. Many other FCS teams and fans are sick and tired of cocky Bison fans “Look at us look at our trophy case blah blah blah”. Go ahead move up to the FBS please, FCS would be just fine without you.

Lol! You have a bad case of Penis Envy!

[tjbison]

Lol! You have a bad case of Penis Envy!


You obviously didn't watch because he was untouched outside due to a missed assignment

Stop feeding the troll, use the ignore feature

[EC8CH]

Stop feeding the troll, use the ignore feature

And miss out on his obvious butt hurt ramblings... No way.

NDSU's trophy case must make him feel inadequate.

[NodakGreg]

This offense is a shell of its former self and it's identity has been lost

We used to be a pro style West Coast offense that used a fullback and running backs. We would pull our guards on sweeps and pound the rock.

Now we do read option every play and out QB is our leading rusher.

It may work with an elite QB like Trey Lance but this is becoming a trend of mediocre play over 2 years.

Our old pro style offense was so unique, teams struggled prepping for it in the playoffs, especially on short notice.

Now we look like everyone else. We're predictable and easy to prep for

Your Exactly right.
SHSU last spring got the ball into their super talented wide receiver and ran and caught all over the place. Why aren't we having Watson touch the ball 10 to 12 times a game?
Yes our Oline just doesn't seem to be able to make holes like they use too,...or is it that the other teams in our MVFC have improved, grown, gotten bigger and are matching up to us now....yet we haven't continued to stay elite and efficient?
I would say our Online coach, our OC TR can't get off from running up the 0 hole or between the tackles no matter how many points we are down or up? Clock management, terrible. No rush to get 2 scores back with 1 qtr to go, continue to pound the ball with no urgency....? WTH

Sooo much talent on this team and its the same old crap, QB runs more then the 4 RBs we have...WHY?

Yes lets get back to the West Coast offense like we use to do, this RPO crap sucks! Do what we were successful at for years....

Defense - We got blown out at the line of scrimmage - Rabbits owned us up front, they were better and dominated our Dline and linebackers all day....
QB never was touched!!!! How does that happen? Yes you have to blitz sometimes instead of stay back and play prevent defense sometimes when you have talented opposing QB, he was a D1 QB with talent and thats what the Bison would have to play against if they moved up to FBS every week people.

We got outplayed, out hustled, out coached on Saturday. TR can't think beyond his first 2 series of offensive play calls,... just go with keeping them off balance and use our talent we have, not running the QB all the damn time.

Entz needs to wake both our DC and OC up to reality. Get back to playing like we can.

Its not that complicated, Where was Luepke #44 all day? blocking not touching the ball, why? Out in the open flats? over the middle? hes a MOOSE! with Wheels! Cmon Coaches....

All that said we are still 8-1, and 2 games left to get our game back in focus on both sides of the ball. Playoffs are still in front of us, and its not over by far...but we need to see 2 good solid games of no turnovers, very little penalities... and a team that recognizes what lies in front of them. They won't beat SDSU or SHSU or JMU because they have size speed like us, but they have coaches who use their talented players....

Fustrating for sure, but we are not 1-8, but 8-1, so breathe everyone, sit back and see what this team can do for 2 more weeks.

Stay together herd!

[EC8CH]

Agreed. I am encouraged that Williams got so many touches. Have TW, Gonnella and Leupke be our 3 bell cows.

Like others have mentioned get the stretch plays to the outside and build in some play action roll out back the other way.

The only outside run we have is a jet sweep.

Dewey

Lack of any consistency or rhythm to the passing game makes it harder on the oline and running game. Doesn't feel like we make adjustments against 8 man boxes like we used to.

[56BISON73]

Gosh I love watching Bisonville crash and burn. Not gonna lie, it was magical watching Strong make that long run TD down NDSU’s throat to start the game. Summed up who’s Big Brother now. FCS teams have caught up to NDSU’s dominance, and NDSU has slightly declined and leveled out. Many other FCS teams and fans are sick and tired of cocky Bison fans “Look at us look at our trophy case blah blah blah”. Go ahead move up to the FBS please, FCS would be just fine without you.

Considering your two teams anything would look magical to you. We've lost once. You ?

Hey what happened to your teams dominating this year? So what have they done in the last decade?

[runtheoption]

Our offensive identity is not having one. We are the Jason Bourne of top 10 FCS football.

[westnodak93bison]

I just cringe when our backs slam into a pile at the line when there is 20 yds of open space the the outside. Good god how can the coaches and rbs not see it?

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[tony]

Can't go -2 in TOs. Can't extend one of their drives 15-yard penalties. Can't act like you've never seen a screen before (and get burned on it three times before figuring it out.) There is a lot to get better at, but the team seemed to get a bit back on track in the second half, but the fact is: SDSU scored the winning points in the first half.

I didn't really have a problem with the offense so much... I gotta think that Luepke and Gonella aren't 100%, but our starting RB had negative yards so something has to change there (either scheme or player.) And, yes, I really prefer dropback to the shotgun stuff.

[NDSU92]

Gosh I love watching Bisonville crash and burn. Not gonna lie, it was magical watching Strong make that long run TD down NDSU’s throat to start the game. Summed up who’s Big Brother now. FCS teams have caught up to NDSU’s dominance, and NDSU has slightly declined and leveled out. Many other FCS teams and fans are sick and tired of cocky Bison fans “Look at us look at our trophy case blah blah blah”. Go ahead move up to the FBS please, FCS would be just fine without you.

Lol this is so Beta that I feel bad even bringing it up

No wonder all the teams you have listed in your name have never beaten NDSU when it matters

[NDSU92]

Can't go -2 in TOs. Can't extend one of their drives 15-yard penalties. Can't act like you've never seen a screen before (and get burned on it three times before figuring it out.) There is a lot to get better at, but the team seemed to get a bit back on track in the second half, but the fact is: SDSU scored the winning points in the first half.

I didn't really have a problem with the offense so much... I gotta think that Luepke and Gonella aren't 100%, but our starting RB had negative yards so something has to change there (either scheme or player.) And, yes, I really prefer dropback to the shotgun stuff.

SDSU was the better team yesterday, but with Cam’s two horrible turnovers, the running into the punter, all the goofy shit that Stig throws at us, etc. I like where we’re at. That game could’ve been won with better coaching and if that happens as it normally does come playoff time we’ll be just fine.

[1st&TennBison]

Your Exactly right.
SHSU last spring got the ball into their super talented wide receiver and ran and caught all over the place. Why aren't we having Watson touch the ball 10 to 12 times a game?
Yes our Oline just doesn't seem to be able to make holes like they use too,...or is it that the other teams in our MVFC have improved, grown, gotten bigger and are matching up to us now....yet we haven't continued to stay elite and efficient?
I would say our Online coach, our OC TR can't get off from running up the 0 hole or between the tackles no matter how many points we are down or up? Clock management, terrible. No rush to get 2 scores back with 1 qtr to go, continue to pound the ball with no urgency....? WTH

Sooo much talent on this team and its the same old crap, QB runs more then the 4 RBs we have...WHY?

Yes lets get back to the West Coast offense like we use to do, this RPO crap sucks! Do what we were successful at for years....

Defense - We got blown out at the line of scrimmage - Rabbits owned us up front, they were better and dominated our Dline and linebackers all day....
QB never was touched!!!! How does that happen? Yes you have to blitz sometimes instead of stay back and play prevent defense sometimes when you have talented opposing QB, he was a D1 QB with talent and thats what the Bison would have to play against if they moved up to FBS every week people.

We got outplayed, out hustled, out coached on Saturday. TR can't think beyond his first 2 series of offensive play calls,... just go with keeping them off balance and use our talent we have, not running the QB all the damn time.

Entz needs to wake both our DC and OC up to reality. Get back to playing like we can.

Its not that complicated, Where was Luepke #44 all day? blocking not touching the ball, why? Out in the open flats? over the middle? hes a MOOSE! with Wheels! Cmon Coaches....

All that said we are still 8-1, and 2 games left to get our game back in focus on both sides of the ball. Playoffs are still in front of us, and its not over by far...but we need to see 2 good solid games of no turnovers, very little penalities... and a team that recognizes what lies in front of them. They won't beat SDSU or SHSU or JMU because they have size speed like us, but they have coaches who use their talented players....

Fustrating for sure, but we are not 1-8, but 8-1, so breathe everyone, sit back and see what this team can do for 2 more weeks.

Stay together herd!
The defense actually played pretty dang good in the second half. Only gave up a field goal.

[tony]

SDSU was the better team yesterday, but with Cam’s two horrible turnovers, the running into the punter, all the goofy shit that Stig throws at us, etc. I like where we’re at. That game could’ve been won with better coaching and if that happens as it normally does come playoff time we’ll be just fine.

I really don't think that the INT was that terrible... didn't SDSU's DB just knock Watson down on that play? And the fumble was kind of flukey and an easy fix. All in all, I thought Cam played a pretty good game. And, hey, teams need a wake-up call. There's a reason that undefeated seasons don't happen on the first title run in a series (and I consider this the start of a new run since so much has changed since 2019.)

[HerdBot]

I really don't think that the INT was that terrible... didn't SDSU's DB just knock Watson down on that play? And the fumble was kind of flukey and an easy fix. All in all, I thought Cam played a pretty good game. And, hey, teams need a wake-up call. There's a reason that undefeated seasons don't happen on the first title run in a series (and I consider this the start of a new run since so much has changed since 2019.)

Its crazy we were still in the game with all the adversity. Picks happen. The 2 fumbles were bigger. The refs always give the home field an advantage and that's fine. At times we looked good enough but the offense is still dog shit, especially in the red zone

[NDSU92]

I really don't think that the INT was that terrible... didn't SDSU's DB just knock Watson down on that play? And the fumble was kind of flukey and an easy fix. All in all, I thought Cam played a pretty good game. And, hey, teams need a wake-up call. There's a reason that undefeated seasons don't happen on the first title run in a series (and I consider this the start of a new run since so much has changed since 2019.)

My problems with Cams pick all revolve around when it happened. It was 1st and 10 and we were moving the ball very well on the drive. It was pretty obvious we were going to run the deep ball to Watson play when we lined up and only sent out two in the route. When cam turned around that ball was gonna fly whether Watson was one on one or there were 5 rabbits back there.

If it was 3rd and long I really like the play call and decision to throw since it was essentially a punt.

[CAS4127]

My problems with Cams pick all revolve around when it happened. It was 1st and 10 and we were moving the ball very well on the drive. It was pretty obvious we were going to run the deep ball to Watson play when we lined up and only sent out two in the route. When cam turned around that ball was gonna fly whether Watson was one on one or there were 5 rabbits back there.

If it was 3rd and long I really like the play call and decision to throw since it was essentially a punt.

I hold (and had yesterday right after it happened) the same position as you on this. There was zero reason to call that play at that time and about a 100 reasons not to. I think this dovetails with O Identity Thread. There no rhyme or reason to our play calling.

Another question I have is whether coaches are telling RBs not to bounce outside when planned gap is full. I just don’t get it. You see other teams do it all the time—with success. Hell, most linger runs in the NFL result from RB making a move or bounce to the outside. It’s both mind-boggling and maddening for me.

[westnodak93bison]

Delta formation? Haven't seen it lately

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[Snowgoose]

I hold (and had yesterday right after it happened) the same position as you on this. There was zero reason to call that play at that time and about a 100 reasons not to. I think this dovetails with O Identity Thread. There no rhyme or reason to our play calling.

Another question I have is whether coaches are telling RBs not to bounce outside when planned gap is full. I just don’t get it. You see other teams do it all the time—with success. Hell, most linger runs in the NFL result from RB making a move or bounce to the outside. It’s both mind-boggling and maddening for me.

I agree with this but maybe our RBs have been overrated as good backs have good vision and do this periodically.

[Snowgoose]

We did it in the SDSU game at least once

[Snowgoose]

Delta formation? Haven't seen it lately

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We did it against sdsu at least once

[ByeSonBusiness]

SDSU was the better team yesterday, but with Cam’s two horrible turnovers, the running into the punter, all the goofy shit that Stig throws at us, etc. I like where we’re at. That game could’ve been won with better coaching and if that happens as it normally does come playoff time we’ll be just fine.

Coaching ain't improving anytime soon. We got a coordinator who got the job because he was a local legend on the gridiron and a head coach who isn't equipped either.

[thundarsdaddy]

And Roehl would probably still run the QB 75% of the time...

And...if Tyler Roehl was the feature RB, and the OC kept calling QB runs...what would he have thought?

[Snowgoose]

We were so bad yesterday we had a butt fumble

[TAILG8R]

We were so bad yesterday we had a butt fumbleLol that sums it up perfectly.

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[56BISON73]

We were so bad yesterday we had a butt fumble

:D:D:rofl::rofl::howdy:

[NodakGreg]

The best players on our offense aren't being put in a position to contribute. We have two of the best tight ends in the subdivision and they only get targeted what, 3, 4 times a game? We have possibly THE best receiver in the subdivision and his typical stat line is about 3 targets for two catches and 50 yards. I could live with it if he's drawing double teams on every down allowing for efficient short and medium passes, and I'm sure he would be fine with it too, but that's just not the way it's working.

Yet again our quarterback is our leading rusher. That is unacceptable.


The backs are being given no opportunity to develop a rhythm. It's rare that one lines up as the prime tailback more than two plays in a row. And I'm not a scheme expert, but it seems like our backs are getting tackled in the backfield for minus 2 yards way, way way too often. Whose fault is that? O line? Tight end blocking? I've never seen a supposedly good team have that many TFLs so often.

I agree with all your comments except for the Middle one. (The defense did enough to win. The offense did not.)
Defense didn't TOUCH the Rabbits QB all game, we could not trap that fast little fella. Hes a higher level talent, you can tell hes a FBS talent not FCS and has the speed to move around. Much like QB from Eastern Washington is hard to keep between the lines...

Our Defense must learn to blitz in different packages more often, our front four or should I say our 3 rotating Dlines are suppose to wear down the opposing offensive lines, well that didn't go very well did it?
Simply put the JAcks wanted this game more, and our players and coaches were not ready, sad in a big rivalry game....

But I hope what matters is a Championship Ring then the Dakota Marker...
This loss is good for the herd, more work to be done, focus on the next 2 weeks to improve.....

[Bisonator98]

This offense is a shell of its former self and it's identity has been lost

We used to be a pro style West Coast offense that used a fullback and running backs. We would pull our guards on sweeps and pound the rock.

Now we do read option every play and out QB is our leading rusher.

It may work with an elite QB like Trey Lance but this is becoming a trend of mediocre play over 2 years.

Our old pro style offense was so unique, teams struggled prepping for it in the playoffs, especially on short notice.

Now we look like everyone else. We're predictable and easy to prep for

Could not agree more. So sick of the R/O spread shit and running the QB. Entz needs to replace Roehl with a real OC or he'll end up being replaced. We need to get back to what we do and do it well mentality.

[GreenfieldBison]

Could not agree more. So sick of the R/O spread shit and running the QB. Entz needs to replace Roehl with a real OC or he'll end up being replaced. We need to get back to what we do and do it well mentality.

Nice plan. We don’t have the horses up front for it though. That is the reality.


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[Bisonator98]

Nice plan. We don’t have the horses up front for it though. That is the reality.


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I think we have the horses but the jockeys suck! Larson is not an oline coach FFS! More stupid moves by Entz!

[GreenfieldBison]

I think we have the horses but the jockeys suck! Larson is not an oline coach FFS! More stupid moves by Entz!

That has been mentioned. Perhaps this is the root of our offensive issues and worthy of the most scrutiny.


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[tolnabison]

That has been mentioned. Perhaps this is the root of our offensive issues and worthy of the most scrutiny.


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I also question them playing seniority over talent. I feel like our interior olineman consistently have gotten beat all year long. Kubas has really struggled all year. Jensen and Sundell were consistently pushed into the backfield against SDSU.

On defense we keep running Talbert out there, and he always gets beat when we need him to make a play. For example, the slant #10 Yanke caught on a big 3rd down conversion. I don't understand for two/three years they just keep running him out there. I mean they brought in Vines for a reason? Give him a shot.

Overall I am more of a glass a half full person. We are 8-1, have a conference title ahead of us if we can win 2. Which we should. Wining the MVFC outright should get us a top 4, if not a top 2-3 depending on Montana St's results. I think Miller has played well, and I would not go back to QP. I feel like they need to adjust the oline. Zabel, Rock, Miller, or maybe even the San Diego transfer. There has to be something that sparks the offensive run game.

Our defense was put in bad position all first half, after the long TD run. Only giving up 3 points in the second half. They played well.

[HerdBot]

Isn't it interesting that Brent Vigen is starting to look the Bison team of 2010-2011? You can just see the foundation being layed. Their feature back pounded the rock 32 times for 217 and 6.8 ypc. They still use their QB to run, but not as much.

[El_Chapo]

STOP THE QB DESIGN/DELAY RUN its over... Cam can't do that.

More I formation/Delta and less shotgun.

[BISONBRI53]

I KNOW I KNOW!!! Since we aren't doing the not wanting to show our stuff and save it for the BIG games or playoffs anymore MAYBE we are baiting FBS teams with our awful play calling so they will schedule us now!

[BISONBRI53]

Hedberg is Associate HC and QB coach, pretty sure he has some input in the Offense, which why I'm wondering wtf is going on, he won't liste is TR such a blockheadn, or is the whole staff fucking blind now.

Its very strange, imo

Yes. Yes he is.

[BISONBRI53]

I agree with building around strengths, but it feels like we run 6 plays sometimes, we’re so predictable. What do you want to cut back.

They have shown the last 2 seasons they don't know how to build around strengths... Zeb running the ball is prime example #1

[DAS BISON]

They have shown the last 2 seasons they don't know how to build around strengths... Zeb running the ball is prime example #1

There should never have been a designed Zeb run, unless it was a QB sneak for 1/2 yard,

Designed pass schemes and throws to playmakers and tight ends should have been created and worked on for Zebs strengths.

Watching QP this fall reminded me exactly how Zeb looked as the season went on. Regressing, lost, unsure, and frustrated.

[TAILG8R]

There should never have been a designed Zeb run, unless it was a QB sneak for 1/2 yard,

Designed pass schemes and throws to playmakers and tight ends should have been created and worked on for Zebs strengths.

Watching QP this fall reminded me exactly how Zeb looked as the season went on. Regressing, lost, unsure, and frustrated.

But once they start executing they're going to score 70! Watch out!

Which really means if every play went exactly how we wanted it to we would score 70!

[HerdBot]

They have shown the last 2 seasons they don't know how to build around strengths... Zeb running the ball is prime example #1

Yep. That would have been a good time to go back to the old school Steve Walker type Bison offense. But hey, we don't do that anymore. Ever. It's all shotgun, read option 99% QB run.

[The_Sicatoka]

The read option and RPO is a pox upon all levels of football.

[HerdBot]

The read option and RPO is a pox upon all levels of football.

It's effective but not every damn play.

[runtheoption]

The read option and RPO is a pox upon all levels of football.

This times a million. I think I have been using read option and RPO interchangeably, but I hate them both.

Now if we want to put Luepke under center and run the veer, I'm all in. :)

[EC8CH]

The read option and RPO is a pox upon all levels of football.

Can't believe I'm agreeing with you.

[DCinOK]

The read option and RPO is a pox upon all levels of football.

Amen to that. Such a ridiculously overused cliche of an offensive attack. So sick of watching that same backfield action...

[HerdBot]

This times a million. I think I have been using read option and RPO interchangeably, but I hate them both.

Now if we want to put Luepke under center and run the veer, I'm all in. :)

It's a product or college football no longer having QBs who operate under center. Is it a coincidence that NDSU has been sending QBs to the league? Apparently we have given up on putting a QB under center too

[westnodak93bison]

This ....

Simply put the JAcks wanted this game more, and our players and coaches were not ready, sad in a big rivalry game

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[westnodak93bison]

I agree with this but maybe our RBs have been overrated as good backs have good vision and do this periodically.
I hold (and had yesterday right after it happened) the same position as you on this. There was zero reason to call that play at that time and about a 100 reasons not to. I think this dovetails with O Identity Thread. There no rhyme or reason to our play calling.

Another question I have is whether coaches are telling RBs not to bounce outside when planned gap is full. I just don’t get it. You see other teams do it all the time—with success. Hell, most linger runs in the NFL result from RB making a move or bounce to the outside. It’s both mind-boggling and maddening for me.Another question I have is whether coaches are telling RBs not to bounce outside when planned gap is full. I just don’t get it. You see other teams do it all the time—with success. Hell, most linger runs in the NFL result from RB making a move or bounce to the outside. It’s both mind-boggling and maddening for me.

This has drove me nuts forever....for once a little hesitation and vision would be nice but nope...slam into the designed hole even though everyone in the stadium(except the people that should) knows the d is trying to stop it.

Remember that rb from Coastal Carolina? He was good at it.

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[1998braves64]

Another question I have is whether coaches are telling RBs not to bounce outside when planned gap is full. I just don’t get it. You see other teams do it all the time—with success. Hell, most linger runs in the NFL result from RB making a move or bounce to the outside. It’s both mind-boggling and maddening for me.

This has drove me nuts forever....for once a little hesitation and vision would be nice but nope...slam into the designed hole even though everyone in the stadium(except the people that should) knows the d is trying to stop it.

Remember that rb from Coastal Carolina? He was good at it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using TapatalkSome backs just don't have that vision. Luepke does a bit. If you don't have it usually your best overall to run north and south. Because if you try to bounce outside without knowing who might be waiting there for you to do that you'll probably get labeled as a dancer.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[CAS4127]

Some backs just don't have that vision. Luepke does a bit. If you don't have it usually your best overall to run north and south. Because if you try to bounce outside without knowing who might be waiting there for you to do that you'll probably get labeled as a dancer.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

Luepke has it, along with an innate sense to just feel/see the soft spots that allow him 2-3-4 or more yards.

I question whether our coaches see that he has that despite all of us seeing it.

He (Luepke) gets a feel for the game and D, and that’s why he should get more “fucking touches” as is the new feel good coaching language—>Barf!

[bajadanny]

This ....

Simply put the JAcks wanted this game more, and our players and coaches were not ready, sad in a big rivalry game

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Totally agree no reason for that to happen, I just don’t get it

[56BISON73]

Luepke has it, along with an innate sense to just feel/see the soft spots that allow him 2-3-4 or more yards.

I question whether our coaches see that he has that despite all of us seeing it.

He (Luepke) gets a feel for the game and D, and that’s why he should get more “fucking touches” as is the new feel good coaching language—>Barf!

The thing is you dont have to have great vision. If the hole isnt there go someplace else. Bounce GTFO:D

[dewey]

Luepke has it, along with an innate sense to just feel/see the soft spots that allow him 2-3-4 or more yards.

I question whether our coaches see that he has that despite all of us seeing it.

He (Luepke) gets a feel for the game and D, and that’s why he should get more “fucking touches” as is the new feel good coaching language—>Barf!

I would be more than happy to see Williams and Leupke be our bell cows the rest of the way. Maybe Gonnella too. That would be a hell of a Delta formation.

Dewey

[Snowgoose]

I would be more than happy to see Williams and Leupke be our bell cows the rest of the way. Maybe Gonnella too. That would be a hell of a Delta formation.

Dewey

I love Luepke and I wish he was our featured back but what people are forgetting is that he seems very injury prone. He hurt his hammy last week and always seems to be tweaking something. He is actually almost a clone to Roehl in all aspects as Roehl was also injury prone a little which for both is terribly unfortunate.

[tjbison]

I would be more than happy to see Williams and Leupke be our bell cows the rest of the way. Maybe Gonnella too. That would be a hell of a Delta formation.

Dewey

Early in the year thats what we had, HL and DG...then we stopped. So either the coaches are morons or they are banged up, heard both so whats true?

Maybe a combo of both, but I do see DG limping a bit

[El_Chapo]

Gonella has been hurt, Luepke has been hurt.

You need to SIT THEM until 1st round game. that 1-2 punch when healthy pulverizes a Dline.

if you can't beat YSU/USD without them then we are screwed anyways.

[tjbison]

Gonella has been hurt, Luepke has been hurt.

You need to SIT THEM until 1st round game. that 1-2 punch when healthy pulverizes a Dline.

if you can't beat YSU/USD without them then we are screwed anyways.

SOB..have to agree with the Chapster here also

[tolnabison]

Gonella has been hurt, Luepke has been hurt.

You need to SIT THEM until 1st round game. that 1-2 punch when healthy pulverizes a Dline.

if you can't beat YSU/USD without them then we are screwed anyways.

This I agree with. They should sit them versus YSU for sure. Maybe play them against USD, then they get the bye week before playoffs. We got the horses to carry the ball. TaMerik, Bussey, and TK Marshall all can handle the workload. Kobe looked like he got dinged against SDSU also.

[bisonaudit]

I would be more than happy to see Williams and Leupke be our bell cows the rest of the way. Maybe Gonnella too. That would be a hell of a Delta formation.

Dewey

Thats a lot of bells.

[WeAreThePride]

Gonella has been hurt, Luepke has been hurt.

You need to SIT THEM until 1st round game. that 1-2 punch when healthy pulverizes a Dline.

if you can't beat YSU/USD without them then we are screwed anyways.

Backs don't pulverize D lines. O line talent and coaching pulverizes D lines.

[El_Chapo]

Backs don't pulverize D lines. O line talent and coaching pulverizes D lines.

meh. these 2 guys are bruising downhill running backs.

that's why it's imperative to get them healthy. Roehl / Entz should of recognized this earlier & sat them for sdsu & mixed up the offense.

[WeAreThePride]

meh. these 2 guys are bruising downhill running backs.

that's why it's imperative to get them healthy. Roehl / Entz should of recognized this earlier & sat them for sdsu & mixed up the offense.

Bruising to linebackers and safeties. D linemen don't get brutally hit by backs.

[dewey]

Gonella has been hurt, Luepke has been hurt.

You need to SIT THEM until 1st round game. that 1-2 punch when healthy pulverizes a Dline.

if you can't beat YSU/USD without them then we are screwed anyways.

I thought Entz said at a weekly press conference that they were going to hold put HL until he was fully recovered so NDSU didn't have to go week by week on him.

I agree with Chapo. Rest DG & HL until the playoffs. Feed TW a lot the next few weeks.

Dewey

[tony]

I thought Entz said at a weekly press conference that they were going to hold put HL until he was fully recovered so NDSU didn't have to go week by week on him.

I agree with Chapo. Rest DG & HL until the playoffs. Feed TW a lot the next few weeks.

Dewey

I am going to diddly-o-ditto this. :)

[totoinfl]

I am going to diddly-o-ditto this. :)

I have never seen that used in a ditto sense Tony...I may steal it.

[tolnabison]

Persnally I think Cam has played well, he gives us the a consistent threat in the passing game. Makes some plays with his feet in both the called QB run game and scrambling on pass plays. He made a couple mistakes, hopefully he can correct them.

I really question our offensive line play. I almost feel like they are kind of over rated? Might take some criticism from this. I just don't feel like they have played up to the hype.

I am starting to question our interior of our offensive line. I feel like their is constantly defensive tackles penetrating the backfield. Kubas, Jensen and Sundell have to play better. They also have options like moving Cordell inside and playing Miller or Rock at RT. Also have Grey Zabel as an option at guard. Westberg played well at center while Sundell was out.

Maybe they will make some moves to get a consistent running game going led by the RB room.

[TAILG8R]

Persnally I think Cam has played well, he gives us the a consistent threat in the passing game. Makes some plays with his feet in both the called QB run game and scrambling on pass plays. He made a couple mistakes, hopefully he can correct them.

I really question our offensive line play. I almost feel like they are kind of over rated? Might take some criticism from this. I just don't feel like they have played up to the hype.

I am starting to question our interior of our offensive line. I feel like their is constantly defensive tackles penetrating the backfield. Kubas, Jensen and Sundell have to play better. They also have options like moving Cordell inside and playing Miller or Rock at RT. Also have Grey Zabel as an option at guard. Westberg played well at center while Sundell was out.

Maybe they will make some moves to get a consistent running game going led by the RB room.

I think the oline not being great has started to be the talking point for some of the media. I have seen/heard Ross at Bison Report many times this year say Kubas isn't cutting it and is on the ground way too often.

[BISONBRI53]

We are not the Rams of old. There was a time when we could line up and you knew those chains were going to move. Not any more. Is it coaching? New OL coach came in in a hurry last year...

[Professor Chaos]

Persnally I think Cam has played well, he gives us the a consistent threat in the passing game. Makes some plays with his feet in both the called QB run game and scrambling on pass plays. He made a couple mistakes, hopefully he can correct them.

I really question our offensive line play. I almost feel like they are kind of over rated? Might take some criticism from this. I just don't feel like they have played up to the hype.

I am starting to question our interior of our offensive line. I feel like their is constantly defensive tackles penetrating the backfield. Kubas, Jensen and Sundell have to play better. They also have options like moving Cordell inside and playing Miller or Rock at RT. Also have Grey Zabel as an option at guard. Westberg played well at center while Sundell was out.

Maybe they will make some moves to get a consistent running game going led by the RB room.
O-line is the main issue on offense IMO. They got worked by SDSU's d-line last Saturday. I don't know if it's a lack of execution by the players or poor coaching but there's plenty of improvement to be made in both of those areas. I was really hoping to see Zabel and Rock turn into guys who forced the coaches to play them more this year but it hasn't happened yet. Entz mentioned in his presser that Zabel is still trying to get back to 100% mentally and physically from his ankle injury in the spring. I'm also kind of disappointed that LaCilento hasn't been able to contribute much. He's only played in garbage time this year. This offense only goes as far as the Rams can take it.

[DAS BISON]

We are not the Rams of old. There was a time when we could line up and you knew those chains were going to move. Not any more. Is it coaching? New OL coach came in in a hurry last year...

Agreed, it all starts with the O-Line. Seems like everyone wants make a big play or high light play instead of trying to execute every play correctly. Many highlights of O line running down field trying pancake or crushing block to the whistle that borderlines on a penalty, but very few of proper technique and foot and hand movement in the trenches. I have noticed against teams with average to good defenses our O line laying on the ground with no Defensive player around them or shuffling unsure where and whom to block.

[Bisonator98]

IMO the oline problems come down to coaching and the scheme. Larson has never been an oline coach why did Entz think he'd be good at it? The read option offense has systematically killed our basic power offensive line attack.

[BisonJer]

Dan Larson Year-by-Year Coaching History - No OLine experience
Year School Position
2003 Marietta (Ohio) Running Backs
2004 Marietta (Ohio) Running Backs
2005 Wisconsin-Stout Wide Receivers
2006 Colgate Running Backs
2007 Colgate Running Backs/Special Teams Coordinator
2008 Macalester Offensive Coordinator
2009 Macalester Offensive Coordinator
2010 Macalester Offensive Coordinator
2011 Macalester Offensive Coordinator
2012 Macalester Offensive Coordinator
2013 Minnesota-Duluth Offensive Coordinator
2014 Minnesota-Duluth Offensive Coordinator
2015 Minnesota-Duluth Offensive Coordinator
2016 Wisconsin-Eau Claire Head Coach
2017 Wisconsin-Eau Claire Head Coach
2018 Wisconsin-Eau Claire Head Coach
2019 North Dakota State Running Backs

[HerdBot]

We are not the Rams of old. There was a time when we could line up and you knew those chains were going to move. Not any more. Is it coaching? New OL coach came in in a hurry last year...

Could be. The guys first job as an offensive line coach is at NDSU. That's a crazy expectation. I'm sure he's adequate but I'm not overly impressed with the units performance or improvement either. No way he's as good as our previous coaches who were awesome. But the timing isn't really his fault. I was hoping he would have been stop gap. Not your permanant guy.

[SDbison]

I think the oline not being great has started to be the talking point for some of the media. I have seen/heard Ross at Bison Report many times this year say Kubas isn't cutting it and is on the ground way too often. I have watched Kubas getting his ass beat many times. I was disappointed to see he got the starting job this fall. Some of the younger guys are much better.

[SDbison]

We are not the Rams of old. There was a time when we could line up and you knew those chains were going to move. Not any more. Is it coaching? New OL coach came in in a hurry last year... Doubt Entz has the balls to fire or demote the coaches who are under performing. First ones under consideration should be OC Roehl and O Line coach Larson. Really wonder how a guy with no O Line experience got that job at NDSU. Scott Frost immediately fired four Nebraska assistant coaches yesterday. Do we need to wait until the Bison start losing 3, 4 or more games a year?

[BISONBRI53]

Doubt Entz has the balls to fire or demote the coaches who are under performing. First ones under consideration should be OC Roehl and O Line coach Larson. Really wonder how a guy with no O Line experience got that job at NDSU. Scott Frost immediately fired four Nebraska assistant coaches yesterday. Do we need to wait until the Bison start losing 3, 4 or more games a year?

Doesnt help that they are all his old buddies. Not just former coaches he had been with prior.

[1st&TennBison]

Doesnt help that they are all his old buddies. Not just former coaches he had been with prior.

Exactly the reason why you don't date your employees.

[HerdBot]

Doubt Entz has the balls to fire or demote the coaches who are under performing. First ones under consideration should be OC Roehl and O Line coach Larson. Really wonder how a guy with no O Line experience got that job at NDSU. Scott Frost immediately fired four Nebraska assistant coaches yesterday. Do we need to wait until the Bison start losing 3, 4 or more games a year?

It was never a promotion to move him to offensive like coach. It was apparently to maintain continuity. Beschorner is a good running backs coach as was Larsen, but I shake my head at not replacing an oline coach with an actual oline coach.

[The_Sicatoka]

Exactly the reason why you don't date your employees.

Gibbs' Rule #12

[MankatoBison]

It was never a promotion to move him to offensive like coach. It was apparently to maintain continuity. Beschorner is a good running backs coach as was Larsen, but I shake my head at not replacing an oline coach with an actual oline coach.

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE downgrade to go from a Big10/SEC O-line coach to "my buddy dan from down the street who played football in high school".

If anyone is shocked by this suddenly worse Oline play, I have a bridge to sell you

[SDbison]

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE downgrade to go from a Big10/SEC O-line coach to "my buddy dan from down the street who played football in high school".

If anyone is shocked by this suddenly worse Oline play, I have a bridge to sell you If we had an AD who knew his shit and had some ballls, conversations would have already started about Entz's poor choice of an old bud to be o line coach. But then idiot AD Larson probably likes the last name of the current O line coach.

[BISONBRI53]

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE downgrade to go from a Big10/SEC O-line coach to "my buddy dan from down the street who played football in high school".

If anyone is shocked by this suddenly worse Oline play, I have a bridge to sell you

Size and price? :rofl:

[cbline]

Size and price? :rofl:

That's what she said.

[El_Chapo]

Gonella has been hurt, Luepke has been hurt.

You need to SIT THEM until 1st round game. that 1-2 punch when healthy pulverizes a Dline.

if you can't beat YSU/USD without them then we are screwed anyways.

Jeff Culhane was smart enough to quote me on this and agree... this should 1000% happen if it doesnt. then Entz/Roehl can't see the forest thru the trees

[HerdBot]

Jeff Culhane was smart enough to quote me on this and agree... this should 1000% happen if it doesnt. then Entz/Roehl can't see the forest thru the trees

We don't use running backs anymore so it doesn't matter. We're a gimmick offense now

[G_Funky]

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE downgrade to go from a Big10/SEC O-line coach to "my buddy dan from down the street who played football in high school".

If anyone is shocked by this suddenly worse Oline play, I have a bridge to sell you

Based on Vandy’s season this year, AJ just might be available for the 2022 season.


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[1st&TennBison]

This is how the Bison use to run the football.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFTsc6-A7tU

[MankatoBison]

This is how the Bison use to run the football.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFTsc6-A7tU

Can confirm. Wish we never would have gotten away from the stiff arming 5 defenders into oblivion, on every play, strategy. Worked wonders for us for a decade and now Roehl pretends like the stiff arming players into oblivion strategy never existed???

[cbline]

This is how the Bison use to run the football.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFTsc6-A7tU

Now THAT is kick ass Bison football!

[HerdBot]

Now THAT is kick ass Bison football!

The only thing cooler would have been a guard or fullback as a lead blocker also stiff arming everyone

[thunderingherd]

Still running the same offense that's been hugely successful for many years, but without an NFL caliber QB threat. That's it.

[Jay]

Still running the same offense that's been hugely successful for many years, but without an NFL caliber QB threat. That's it.

Except it’s not the same.

[HerdBot]

Still running the same offense that's been hugely successful for many years, but without an NFL caliber QB threat. That's it.

Not even close. We used to put the QB under center most of the time. We would do single back or the I with a fullback. Now it's shotgun, more specifically read option most of the time.. Like 80% of the time

[BISONBRI53]

Not even close. We used to put the QB under center most of the time. We would do single back or the I with a fullback. Now it's shotgun, more specifically read option most of the time.. Like 80% of the time

And that has been going on for years now. Since TR took over...

[HerdBot]

And that has been going on for years now. Since TR took over...

It really started in Kliemans last game vs SDSU when Easton ran wild. Continued with Trey. Unfortunately Continued with Zeb

[NDSUstudent]

The whole concept works really well when the best athlete on the field is your QB, not the greatest strategy when that isn't the case. We don't put the ball in the hands of our playmakers enough.

[thunderingherd]

It really started in Kliemans last game vs SDSU when Easton ran wild. Continued with Trey. Unfortunately Continued with Zeb

You make my point here. Fall back to the pack a little without an NFL caliber QB

[Bison Bridge Guy]

We found it today. Will we hang on to it?

[tjbison]

We found it today. Will we hang on to it?No time better than now to start!

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[westnodak93bison]

Check out Wyoming's offensive output and you should realize TR has too much TP imho. Just too stubborn at times.

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[westnodak93bison]

Serious question, why don't the coaches use the "perimeter" run game to set up the between the tackles run?

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[HerdBot]

We found it today. Will we hang on to it?

Can we stick to old school Bison Football 2 games in a row? Well see. Seems like if we get stuffed a few times we revert back to the read option garbage

[Professor Chaos]

It really started in Kliemans last game vs SDSU when Easton ran wild. Continued with Trey. Unfortunately Continued with Zeb
IIRC Easton's usage in that SDSU semi was mainly because the RBs were a MASH unit at the time.

[Professor Chaos]

So at the end of the regular season these are where NDSU sits in FCS national ranks in the major offensive stat categories:

Points per game: 35.3 (13th)
Yards per game: 431.9 (20th)
Yards per play: 7.14 (3rd)
Rush yards per game: 271.8 (3rd)
Yards per carry: 6.35 (1st)
Pass yards per game: 160.1 (108th)
Yards per pass attempt: 9.08 (4th)
Team passing efficiency: 161.35 (5th)
3rd down conversion %: 45.7% (9th)
Redzone score %: 80.4% (60th)
Redzone TD %: 65.2% (39th)
Average time of possession: 31:19 (31st)

Some things like redzone efficiency could use some improvement but in general the offense really came around by the end of the year and looking at their entire body of work this was a surprisingly good season. Comparing them to past Bison teams going back to 2011 those yards per carry and rush yards per game numbers are better than any regular season other than 2019. The yards per play number and yards per pass attempt numbers are better than any regular season other than 2018 and 2019. Still some work to do to keep pace with those teams but I'll gladly take a few bites of crow and tip my hat to the offensive coaches and players for drowning out the outside noise and just executing at a high level especially towards the latter part of the year.

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/eatcrow.jpg

[EC8CH]

Red zone efficiency is the biggest thing I called out. NDSU was in position to turn a few more games into blowouts but didn't mid season. Glad to see Tuddies the past two games piling up.

[MankatoBison]

Uhhhh... If we keep this up, I think we can retire this thread.


THAT BEING SAID....

I think the loudest critique is the "prevent offense" against good teams. It remains to be seen if that has been fixed but damn, our offense looked incredible against USD.

[THEsocalledfan]

I hope folks appreciate just how much impact QB play has on making a a OC look good. Example, the Phoenix Sproles TD was a "smoke" meaning Cam saw the matchup and CB positioning, and just winged it out there on a audible.

[MankatoBison]

I hope folks appreciate just how much impact QB play has on making a a OC look good. Example, the Phoenix Sproles TD was a "smoke" meaning Cam saw the matchup and CB positioning, and just winged it out there on a audible.

CORRECT.

We all thought Roehl was the greatest OC on the planet with Trey under center. The Jimmys and Joes are at twice as important as the Xs and Os IMO.

When we are hitting on all cylinders and have our jimmys and Joes, And the other team has theirs, is where the Xs and Os make a hell of a difference.

[Bison Bridge Guy]

I hope folks appreciate just how much impact QB play has on making a a OC look good. Example, the Phoenix Sproles TD was a "smoke" meaning Cam saw the matchup and CB positioning, and just winged it out there on a audible.

The fact that is was an audible also makes the OC look good. QB (and WR) was taught what to look for, what to call when he see it, and was given the trust to make the play.

[semobison]

I hope folks appreciate just how much impact QB play has on making a a OC look good. Example, the Phoenix Sproles TD was a "smoke" meaning Cam saw the matchup and CB positioning, and just winged it out there on a audible.

Taking what the defense is giving you. That’s why Cam was 19-23!

[THEsocalledfan]

The fact that is was an audible also makes the OC look good. QB (and WR) was taught what to look for, what to call when he see it, and was given the trust to make the play.

100% agree.....and why I posted it. I think QP2 was dragging TR down. He was limited in what he could call, and the lack of QB play changes.

[NDSU92]

100% agree.....and why I posted it. I think QP2 was dragging TR down. He was limited in what he could call, and the lack of QB play changes.

Yep, this absolutely. What we've seen at the end of the season is what we wanted to see all year long. Hence the complaining. Stats ended up very good, those last two games were ridiculous.

[Professor Chaos]

The 2021 team finishes the season with a per game rushing average of 280.6 and a per rush average of 6.2 (only the 2018 and 2019 teams were better since the run began and barely). I'd say they found their identity quite well.

[BiZon22]

The 2021 team finishes the season with a per game rushing average of 280.6 and a per rush average of 6.2 (only the 2018 and 2019 teams were better since the run began and barely). I'd say they found their identity quite well.

Stats don’t agree but it sure did look ugly at times getting all those yards. Worked out in the end though, so I’ll hold off on complaining for awhile lol

[ndsubison1]

Finally started to see the offensive line dominate the point of attack, thought we had lost that last couple seasons.

[tony]

So at the end of the regular season these are where NDSU sits in FCS national ranks in the major offensive stat categories:

Points per game: 35.3 (13th) 34.1 (14th)
Yards per game: 431.9 (20th) 431.5 (19th)
Yards per play: 7.14 (3rd) 7.07 (2nd)
Rush yards per game: 271.8 (3rd) 280.6 (2nd)
Yards per carry: 6.35 (1st) 6.21 (1st)
Pass yards per game: 160.1 (108th) 150.9 (11th)
Yards per pass attempt: 9.08 (4th) 8.81 (2nd)
Team passing efficiency: 161.35 (5th) 156.07 (6th)
3rd down conversion %: 45.7% (9th) 47.2 (5th)
Redzone score %: 80.4% (60th) 83.6 (42nd)
Redzone TD %: 65.2% (39th) ? (?)
Average time of possession: 31:19 (31st) 32:17 (18th)


Update Professor Chaos's work from the end of the regular season with the final numbers with the playoffs included (updates in red/green.)

It looks to me like NDSU's offensive identity is "Built for the playoffs." And the teams with the super genius offenses ran into winter weather or good defenses and got their wheels knocked off. I bet every other team in the playoff saw their per game offensive stats go down in the playoffs.

[HerdBot]

Update Herdbot's work from the end of the regular season with the final numbers with the playoffs included (updates in red/green.)

It looks to me like NDSU's offensive identity is "Built for the playoffs." And the teams with the super genius offenses ran into winter weather or good defenses and got their wheels knocked off. I bet every other team in the playoff saw their per game stats go down in the playoffs.


We went back to our old school offense later in the year and that's when we became an unstoppable force.

QB under center, fullback, short passing game and playaction. Starting with Youngstown, we set the D1 record for rushing yards in a game and kind of stuck with it. Then the read option stuff started to work as a chage up. Less is more

We are totally built for the playoffs.

[GreenfieldBison]

There was also some dynamism on the OL over the course of the regular season. This was addressed a bit in the postgame on 1660 Saturday. They moved Volson and others around a bit but it was not working as they would have liked. Seems that after moving back to previous positions then the OL really started to click.

Did this coincide temporally with change at QB and/or change in offensive scheme? I don't know.

[89MTBISON]

There was also some dynamism on the OL over the course of the regular season. This was addressed a bit in the postgame on 1660 Saturday. They moved Volson and others around a bit but it was not working as they would have liked. Seems that after moving back to previous positions then the OL really started to click.

Did this coincide temporally with change at QB and/or change in offensive scheme? I don't know.

We got healthy, the MVFC is a grind.

[tony]

We went back to our old school offense later in the year and that's when we became an unstoppable force.

QB under center, fullback, short passing game and playaction. Starting with Youngstown, we set the D1 record for rushing yards in a game and kind of stuck with it. Then the read option stuff started to work as a chage up. Less is more

We are totally built for the playoffs.

Roehl put in some really clever, but not complicated, wrinkles too... like Watson in the backfield - Montana State treated him like a RB from a coverage standpoint and had a LB try to pick him up (stole this from Twitter)

[THEsocalledfan]

Roehl put in some really clever, but not complicated, wrinkles too... like Watson in the backfield - Montana State treated him like a RB from a coverage standpoint and had a LB try to pick him up (stole this from Twitter)

I think Ross said something like, "I'm not sure what Montana St was trying to do here." LOL

[Professor Chaos]

There was also some dynamism on the OL over the course of the regular season. This was addressed a bit in the postgame on 1660 Saturday. They moved Volson and others around a bit but it was not working as they would have liked. Seems that after moving back to previous positions then the OL really started to click.

Did this coincide temporally with change at QB and/or change in offensive scheme? I don't know.
I also thought I heard something about simplifying the blocking schemes after the SDSU game to try to get the o-line to think less and maul more.

[OrygunBison]

There was also some dynamism on the OL over the course of the regular season. This was addressed a bit in the postgame on 1660 Saturday. They moved Volson and others around a bit but it was not working as they would have liked. Seems that after moving back to previous positions then the OL really started to click.

Losing our OL coach so close to a weird spring season, playing that season, and getting all out of schedule with player development wreaked havok on the OL more than any other position group. Had we not the absolute DUDES on the roster that we did, this could have been worse for longer.

[ndsubison1]

I loved when stacked one side and did a counter with Luepke to other side for 20 yards. They had no idea where to lineup at times and guys were way out of position.

[JMB]

Roehl put in some really clever, but not complicated, wrinkles too... like Watson in the backfield - Montana State treated him like a RB from a coverage standpoint and had a LB try to pick him up (stole this from Twitter)

I agree, I think he threw some formation changes that caused matchup problems for Montana State.

On the other hand, when your line is blowing them 4 yards off the line of scrimmage on every running play, pretty much anything you call would probably work.

[tony]

I agree, I think he threw some formation changes that caused matchup problems for Montana State.

On the other hand, when your line is blowing them 4 yards off the line of scrimmage on every running play, pretty much anything you call would probably work.

Yeah, NDSU could have scored another 28 in the second half... NDSU only threw 3 passes in the second half, 2-3 for 50 yards and a TD.

[Professor Chaos]

Yeah, NDSU could have scored another 28 in the second half... NDSU only threw 3 passes in the second half, 2-3 for 50 yards and a TD.
And the incompletion could've/should've been another TD... Miller just missed Babicz with a slight overthrow before that last FG.

[Hammerhead]

Yeah, NDSU could have scored another 28 in the second half... NDSU only threw 3 passes in the second half, 2-3 for 50 yards and a TD.

If NDSU had kept trying hard, the Bobcat defense would have kept wearing down even more and we could have scored 42 points in the 2nd half.

[BattleBorn]

Our line opened up several lanes that my fat ass could have run through for at least five. Such an impressive display.

[HerdBot]

Roehl put in some really clever, but not complicated, wrinkles too... like Watson in the backfield - Montana State treated him like a RB from a coverage standpoint and had a LB try to pick him up (stole this from Twitter)

Roehl was a gangster late in the year. His best work.

[TAILG8R]

https://twitter.com/RossUglem/status/1480562632260268039

NDSU out-gained their opponents 4,209 to 1,314 on the ground this season

[T-Funk]

https://twitter.com/RossUglem/status/1480562632260268039

NDSU out-gained their opponents 4,209 to 1,314 on the ground this season

A 3.2:1 ratio. Unreal.

[tony]

A 3.2:1 ratio. Unreal.

The Green and Golden Ratio?*

* I apologize... but I want to get this kind of stuff out of my subconscious. In a dream last night, I uttered a pun so terrible that it woke me up (and, no, I'm not going to share it.)

[oldmantutters]

The Green and Golden Ratio?*

* I apologize... but I want to get this kind of stuff out of my subconscious. In a dream last night, I uttered a pun so terrible that it woke me up (and, no, I'm not going to share it.)I'm good with that. I've got one for you, "the Bison Formula." Rush attempts + pass completions > 50

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