SDSU Post Game Thoughts & Discussion

[Kevin]

1) we could have won this but we can’t and won’t with coaching like this. I knew this was done when entz said no offensive adjustments at half time.
2) luepke getting no carries is inexcusable. Kobe Johnson should not be the feature back and dom clearly isn’t healthy.
3) roehl can only call qb run in high pressure situations. It’s comical at this point.
4) congrats to sdsu. Creative play calling on offense and impressive qb and rb play.
5) nothing else to add. What a shitshow.

[scottietohottie]

That little Duke bitch is still smiling. Fire her too.

[Wally]

1. Garbage
2.

[Kevin]

An addendum to point 1. Those penalties are a reflection on entz and company. Not to mention clock management.

[NDSUstudent]

Season starting to look a lot like 2016.

Roehl's is going to end up out of his element in the playoffs, just like Polasek.

[23Bison]

There were no bright spots in this game and there is nothing anyone can say to change my mind. Entz is a shitty head coach. Tyler Is a terrible OC. Braun is fucking terrible. And I’m so sick and tired of people saying who’s better at QB. Every part of this game was fucking gross. Fuck this stupid shit! Fuck SDSU!

[garbageman]

Bohl lost a game in a season and still won a championship Klieman lost 2 games in a season and still won a championship and everyone was calling for their heads also

[NDSUstudent]

Bohl lost a game in a season and still won a championship Klieman lost 2 games in a season and still won a championship and everyone was calling for their heads also

I am not so dramatic, defense will be fine. Entz can work on that but being a defensive coach, he is out of his league in regards to Roehl.

[Kevin]

Bohl lost a game in a season and still won a championship Klieman lost 2 games in a season and still won a championship and everyone was calling for their heads also

Bullshit. Those loses were flukes. This is systemic and we point it out every week and warn that it will burn us in a big game.

It just did.

[1st&TennBison]

No matter what we do in the next two games, even if we win 64-0 each time, we are not going to beat SDSU in the playoffs if we meet them. Play calling in this game is total horse manure. And stupid mistakes. Waste of time clock at the end of the first half to give SDSU time to kick a FG. And no idea of what a hurry up offense is at the end of the second half. Coaches had better do some serious thinking about their actions. If you really think about it, NDSU could have won this game in a close one with all the screw ups.

[tjbison]

Bohl lost a game in a season and still won a championship Klieman lost 2 games in a season and still won a championship and everyone was calling for their heads also

They could coach

[23Bison]

Yeah well neither Bohl or Klieman were fucking idiots with idiot staff members.

[NDSUstudent]

No matter what we do in the next two games, even if we win 64-0 each time, we are not going to beat SDSU in the playoffs if we meet them. Play calling in this game is total horse manure. And stupid mistakes. Waste of time clock at the end of the first half to give SDSU time to kick a FG. And no idea of what a hurry up offense is at the end of the second half. Coaches had better do some serious thinking about their actions. If you really think about it, NDSU could have won this game in a close one with all the screw ups.

I think we do beat them. Not so confident about JMU or SHSU, they will expose Roehl.

[Bison03]

Some of you are just fucking tiresome. We got outplayed by a good team on the road. It happens. Re-fucking-lax!!! 2 more wins and we are the outright conference champs and a 3, maybe 2 seed in the playoffs.

[Kevin]

Cas any insight on the lack of pressure all game?

That’s been a strength all season and next to nothing today.

[3logan86]

Bullshit. Those loses were flukes. This is systemic and we point it out every week and warn that it will burn us in a big game.

It just did.

Thisss!!!!!!

[scottietohottie]

Some of you are just fucking tiresome. We got outplayed by a good team on the road. It happens. Re-fucking-lax!!! 2 more wins and we are the outright conference champs and a 3, maybe 2 seed in the playoffs.

Yeah no kidding. Thank goodness we're in the fcs and have no other competition so it will all be just fine.

[bisontown]

No matter what we do in the next two games, even if we win 64-0 each time, we are not going to beat SDSU in the playoffs if we meet them. Play calling in this game is total horse manure. And stupid mistakes. Waste of time clock at the end of the first half to give SDSU time to kick a FG. And no idea of what a hurry up offense is at the end of the second half. Coaches had better do some serious thinking about their actions. If you really think about it, NDSU could have won this game in a close one with all the screw ups.
So….. we could have won this game in a close one, even with all the screwups, but have no chance to beat them in the playoffs? Did I read this right? Haha, wow.

[Kevin]

Some of you are just fucking tiresome. We got outplayed by a good team on the road. It happens. Re-fucking-lax!!! 2 more wins and we are the outright conference champs and a 3, maybe 2 seed in the playoffs.

It’s one thing to lose. It’s another to beat yourself. That’s what happened last year and it’s happening again.

That’s why people are mad. It’s predictable and if a message board can see it our staff should be able to.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Bohl lost a game in a season and still won a championship Klieman lost 2 games in a season and still won a championship and everyone was calling for their heads also

We are lucky to have only one loss, this play won’t cut it in the playoffs……

[scottietohottie]

So do we get to see Burgum in a tight Jack's jersey now?

I'm excited!

[GrizTurnedFightingHawk]

The gravy train ends here.

[1st&TennBison]

I think we do beat them. Not so confident about JMU or SHSU, they will expose Roehl.

Depending on how far we drop in the polls after today. If we end up #4 seed in the playoffs I like the chances that SHSU looses one of their playoff games and NDSU plays at home all the way. Of course that only plays out if we don't drop to far.

[gabisonfan]

They could coach

The current staff is not FBS don't waste the money. UMASS football is not aspirational. Very poorly coached. I doubt I could do better, but actual coaches could.

[tjbison]

Some of you are just fucking tiresome. We got outplayed by a good team on the road. It happens. Re-fucking-lax!!! 2 more wins and we are the outright conference champs and a 3, maybe 2 seed in the playoffs.

Your happy with leaving Timeouts going into half, calling 5 fucking run plays in a row down 20 midway thru the 3rd, running two fucking QB runs in the red zone with 6 minutes left in the 4th down 2 scores?

If so by all means congrats, but me I thought it was fucking stupid, and coaches on a DI 8 time champion team should absolutely know better and also know how to run a 2 minute offense.

We didn't put the ball in our best players hands until we realizes which side of the scoreboard was our points.

Just sad and terrible to watch

[NDSUstudent]

Yeah no kidding. Thank goodness we're in the fcs and have no other competition so it will all be just fine.

We literally don't have a tough game on schedule until maybe the quarterfinals...so yeah.

[Kevin]

It’s 3rd and 12 what do???

https://i.imgflip.com/5t8erk.jpg

[scottietohottie]

It’s 3rd and 12 what do???

https://imgflip.com/i/5t8erk

Run qb?????????

[1st&TennBison]

So….. we could have won this game in a close one, even with all the screwups, but have no chance to beat them in the playoffs? Did I read this right? Haha, wow.

Yeah, because our coaching has not shown a ability to adapt. Coaching in this game was garbage. And like a different poster said before, only our players ability kept us in the game like we were. The coaches in this game will be the same ones coaching in the playoffs. When you read a bad book twice, it is still a bad book the second time.

[yellowstreak]

maybe the Bison coaching staff aren't meat heads and went into this game not wanting to show all their cards anticipating a rematch in the playoffs

just kidding...they are meat heads

[jcdcubs]

SDSU should change to Jackasses, not Jackrabbits.

[Kevin]

When you have 6 running backs you really don’t have a running game at all.

[Kevin]

I sincerely think we’d be better off just letting cam call the game on the field at this point.

Guarantee you it couldn’t go as bad as that 1st and goal from the 3 series.

[IzzyFlexion]

Your down 11.
You start a series on your own 29.
4:12 left in the game and just 2 time outs.
You have the wind at your back.
You hand the ball off to a RB up the middle for a 1 yard gain.
Then.....huddle up.

You could watch 1,000,000 games with that scenario, and NEVER see that again.

[tjbison]

I sincerely think we’d be better off just letting cam call the game on the field at this point.

Guarantee you it couldn’t go as bad as that 1st and goal from the 3 series.

But he fumbled there also....

[TAILG8R]

At one point in the spring or after that shit season CAS mentioned something about Roehl's welcome wearing out inside the program and alluded to the staff knowing and expecting things to change or else.

I'm curious CAS, am I remembering correctly and what do you think the talk is now and will anyone have the balls to make a change on a 12-2 team that doesn't win the natty?

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[NDSUstudent]

SDSU should change to Jackasses, not Jackrabbits.

Well Jackrabbit is short for Jackass rabbit

[tjbison]

Your down 11.
You start a series on your own 29.
4:12 left in the game and just 2 time outs.
You have the wind at your back.
You hand the ball off to a RB up the middle for a 1 yard gain.
Then.....huddle up.

You could watch 1,000,000 games with that scenario, and NEVER see that again.

Lol...isn't that something

And people will defend it

[Kevin]

But he fumbled there also....

Doesn’t change the points that the three plays we saw were mind numbingly stupid.

[HerdBot]

1) SDSU is just a better team. They would won 8 out of 10 times this year. The only reason we had a chance late I'm the game is because they went into conservative mode

2) I said this in the off season. Out offensive line is mediocre. Not terrible but not elite.

3) The offense is a shell of what it was under Bohl and Klieman. I've been saying this all year. We are no longer a pro style offense.

4) the 2nd quarter was the worst quarter of football all year

[NDSUstudent]

The option call is what broke me, really all the weapons we have and that is what you want there. Maybe if Trey or Stick is at QB, but he isn't and that was after he ran a QB run the previous play.

[DakotaOkie]

The 75 yard play from scrimmage at the start of the game set the tone for the rest of the game. Not diminishing the Bison defense on that play but the Jacks simply managed a great offensive play out of the chute. Remove that play and this comes down to a 4 point game (maybe 2 point 'cuz that sure looked like the QB was downed with the ball in the end zone to me on the Midco camera). I am still not a TR fan as an OC but the pass was being used somewhat at the game opening before panic set in. Maybe the opportunities weren't there today, but short slants and screen plays don't seem to be in the Bison play book.

[CAS4127]

Your happy with leaving Timeouts going into half, calling 5 fucking run plays in a row down 20 midway thru the 3rd, running two fucking QB runs in the red zone with 6 minutes left in the 4th down 2 scores?

If so by all means congrats, but me I thought it was fucking stupid, and coaches on a DI 8 time champion team should absolutely know better and also know how to run a 2 minute offense.

We didn't put the ball in our best players hands until we realizes which side of the scoreboard was our points.

Just sad and terrible to watch

The last part of your post is spot on (not dissing on earlier part tho, either). It’s time to use our best players all the time, and get them the ball. The lack of TE use is baffling, as is our RB rotation. I believe we have players on D that could be our best RB, and Luepke needs to be played way more.

This is just ridiculous, as is play calling. There is zero rhyme or reason to it. We don’t not set anything up at all. It’s more like “hey, let’s run this and see what happens”. Also, we need to be way more punctual and urgent on O, whether we are winning or losing. Remember when we decided to huddle 5 yards from LOS so we could get up to ball sooner and get going? Hell, now we are kicking if we get to the LOS 5 seconds before play-clock runs out. Get the fuck up there, snap the ball and put/keep pressure on the D for once. O

Players are a reflection of coaches, and that reflection right now looks sloppy, undisciplined, lack of ass-kicking attitude and very little football IQ. Good God!

[Kevin]

Kobe had 4 carries for -3 yards.

Miller was our leading rusher.

[1st&TennBison]

At one point in the spring or after that shit season CAS mentioned something about Roehl's welcome wearing out inside the program and alluded to the staff knowing and expecting things to change or else.

I'm curious CAS, am I remembering correctly and what do you think the talk is now and will anyone have the balls to make a change on a 13-1 team that doesn't win the natty?

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Correct me if I am wrong, but if we go 13-1 this year doesn't that mean we won the Natty?

[1st&TennBison]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if we go 13-1 this year doesn't that mean we won the Natty?

My bad, not doing my math right

[HerdBot]

Kobe had 4 carries for -3 yards.

Miller was our leading rusher.

We are no longer pro style. We no longer use a running back. We no longer use a fullback. We no longer get the rams moving. Roehl sucks

[NDSU92]

People who question winners probably haven’t won much in their lives

Wait what

[GrizTurnedFightingHawk]

The option call is what broke me, really all the weapons we have and that is what you want there. Maybe if Trey or Stick is at QB, but he isn't and that was after he ran a QB run the previous play.

“South Dakota is a great state because of its values, not because of dependence on government.”

9749

[Kevin]

I watch a lot of college football. I rarely ask myself what the fuck is this team doing.

Finding a competent oc at this level can’t be that hard.

[DakotaOkie]

I keep hoping that TR gets the call to be a HC at some D2 school (heck, even an FCS school). As bad as he is as an OC, the Bison have won a lot of games with him on staff. His resume should be adequate to "move up".

[1st&TennBison]

“South Dakota is a great state because of its values, not because of dependence on government.”

9749

What ? ^^^^

[G_Funky]

When you have 6 running backs you really don’t have a running game at all.

I believe there’s a saying “if you give a fuck about everything, you end up actually giving a fuck about anything”

Even the midco guys said our running back by committee isn’t effective….especially when the offense is out of rhythm.


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[oldmantutters]

I keep hoping that TR gets the call to be a HC at some D2 school (heck, even an FCS school). As bad as he is as an OC, the Bison have won a lot of games with him on staff. His resume should be adequate to "move up".He'd probably do better as a strength coach/"get back" guy/hype man at a program. Something that doesnt require thinking or adjustments.

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[EndZoneQB]

I believe there’s a saying “if you give a fuck about everything, you end up actually giving a fuck about anything”

Even the midco guys said our running back by committee isn’t effective….especially when the offense is out of rhythm.


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There was a moment when, I think, Dom was confused/annoyed why he was coming out of the game after he had a decent run.

Why are players not getting a series instead of in and out every fucking play?

I still can't get over handing off on our first play deep in our own territory down 11. Can someone PLEASE ask what the thought process was there?

[JignJab]

I thought we had so much depth at defensive line. Sure didn’t show today.

[Hammerhead]

We just ran out of time /purple.

[westnodak93bison]

That is the worst Bison fb game I've ever seen in person. Poor play calling, poor discipline, stupid penalties, no urgency, crap body language on the sideline and the time management - good god! The only player being vocal on the sideline was #67

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[23Bison]

Your down 11.
You start a series on your own 29.
4:12 left in the game and just 2 time outs.
You have the wind at your back.
You hand the ball off to a RB up the middle for a 1 yard gain.
Then.....huddle up.

You could watch 1,000,000 games with that scenario, and NEVER see that again.

This^^^^ So much this^^^ This is the stupid type of shit that our coaching staff does every game and people defend it. This whole staff is a bunch of fucking idiots!

[tjbison]

The last part of your post is spot on (not dissing on earlier part tho, either). It’s time to use our best players all the time, and get them the ball. The lack of TE use is baffling, as is our RB rotation. I believe we have players on D that could be our best RB, and Luepke needs to be played way more.

This is just ridiculous, as is play calling. There is zero rhyme or reason to it. We don’t not set anything up at all. It’s more like “hey, let’s run this and see what happens”. Also, we need to be way more punctual and urgent on O, whether we are winning or losing. Remember when we decided to huddle 5 yards from LOS so we could get up to ball sooner and get going? Hell, now we are kicking if we get to the LOS 5 seconds before play-clock runs out. Get the fuck up there, snap the ball and put/keep pressure on the D for once. O

Players are a reflection of coaches, and that reflection right now looks sloppy, undisciplined, lack of ass-kicking attitude and very little football IQ. Good God!Exactly, i can't fathom anyone that understands football thinking today NDSU did good. At some point the players also have to wonder, like I said in the Game thread...do you really think the entire staff is on board with this? They cant be, someone has to be saying WTF in their head seeing the clock management, play selection and use of talent on critical down and time in the games.

Literally first TD was a 15yd pass to the TE, then never went back to it until a desperation throw late.

We have NFL talent at TE and we run the fucking QB.

I don't know, yes I get we are 8-1, but games only get tougher from here Nd ,i dont have the faith this team can gut oit a win anymore like back in the not too distant glory years.

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[CAS4127]

We need a feature RB with a solid backup. The offense would run much smoother, and this would result in better timing and feel for the entire O. Every RB has their own feel, speed and looks they like. What we are doing is ridiculous.

[Kevin]

1st and goal from the 3 you run your 170 pound qb twice.

That’s not bison football. Not even close.

[Kevin]

We need a feature RB with a solid backup. The offense would run much smoother, and this would result in better timing and feel for the entire O. Every RB has their own feel, speed and looks they like. What we are doing is ridiculous.

And none of them get enough carries to even gauge who has the hot hand.

[CAS4127]

Exactly, i can't fathom anyone that understands football thinking today NDSU did good. At some point the players also have to wonder, like I said in the Game thread...do you really think the entire staff is on board with this? They cant be, someone has to be saying WTF in their head seeing the clock management, play selection and use of talent on critical down and time in the games.

Literally first TD was a 15yd pass to the TE, then never went back to it until a desperation throw late.

We have NFL talent at TE and we run the fucking QB.

I don't know, yes I get we are 8-1, but games only get tougher from here Nd ,i dont have the faith this team can gut oit a win anymore like back in the not too distant glory years.

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Yes!! This sums things up nicely, and IZZY’s post was perfect. Wtf are we doing on O?

[TAILG8R]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if we go 13-1 this year doesn't that mean we won the Natty?Should have been 2 losses in that post. :)

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[EC8CH]

Clueless in the RedZone. So frustrating.

[Gully]

Not only too many running backs, but too many different types of offenses.

[westnodak93bison]

We need a feature RB with a solid backup. The offense would run much smoother, and this would result in better timing and feel for the entire O. Every RB has their own feel, speed and looks they like. What we are doing is ridiculous.I liked when 22 had a nice run and then off to the sideline..lol

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[Kevin]

Definitely miss the days of alternating two backs on drives.

[IzzyFlexion]

1st and goal from the 3 you run your 170 pound qb twice.

That’s not bison football. Not even close.

Neither is lining up a wide receiver as a tailback and handing off to him.
I get that we have some backs that aren't at 100%, and that getting Watson the ball is important, but that is just too gimmicky for me.

[tjbison]

I liked when 22 had a nice run and then off to the sideline..lol

Sent from my SM-G965U using TapatalkIsnt that stupid, someone has a kick ass run and boom..to the bench

Running backs get no rythm, and the Blocking guys dont either because like stated earlier in thread EACH BACK IS DIFFERENT!

ok, ill stop now but holy fuck its frustrating, and has to be for the players also.

Im nervous we are going to start losing guys, it just feels like ME and TR are too stubborn to change anything as made clear by ME at Halftime.

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[Kevin]

Any update on luepke? That’s the most confusing part of this cluster fuck to me.

[scottietohottie]

Roehl never has done much down in Brookings!

[EndZoneQB]

I liked when 22 had a nice run and then off to the sideline..lol

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I think this is what I was referencing, I just had it backwards. He looked annoyed and confused.

[EC8CH]

Roehl never has done much down in Brookings!

True, and Savage.

[Snowgoose]

We need a feature RB with a solid backup. The offense would run much smoother, and this would result in better timing and feel for the entire O. Every RB has their own feel, speed and looks they like. What we are doing is ridiculous.

This may be true but today there we’re almost zero holes. RBs had no chance whether is was some scheme and or poor blocking as it might be both.

[gavin2126]

There was a moment when, I think, Dom was confused/annoyed why he was coming out of the game after he had a decent run.

Why are players not getting a series instead of in and out every fucking play?

I still can't get over handing off on our first play deep in our own territory down 11. Can someone PLEASE ask what the thought process was there?

We’ve been doing that since 2016 and I’ve never agreed with that. Let a RB play 3-4 plays and then sub him out.

[HerdBot]

We need a feature RB with a solid backup. The offense would run much smoother, and this would result in better timing and feel for the entire O. Every RB has their own feel, speed and looks they like. What we are doing is ridiculous.

I would be happy just putting the QB under center more than 2 times a game

[gavin2126]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if we go 13-1 this year doesn't that mean we won the Natty?

It would mean we advanced to the natty.

[gizmo]

The slightly bright spot: Miller played ok given the circumstances.

[1st&TennBison]

It would mean we advanced to the natty.

See my post right after that one, i said i had my math wrong. But in my defense, I am subing in 4-5 different computers and cell phones while I view BV, so there is no chance at getting a feel for what I am saying.

[EC8CH]

The slightly bright spot: Miller played ok given the circumstances.

Solid player but his calves look a little thin.

[Gully]

I thought Miller looked pretty good at times. I thought after the first TD drive we had found something. Opened it up with the pass. I thought they could keep doing that and spread them out, hit some tight ends over the middle, etc.

[ByeSonBusiness]

NDSU looked uncomfortable. I get that NDSU is rarely behind by more than a possession, but when you are down 17, maybe show some urgency.

There is nothing particularly bad about losing this game but how they went about it still smells bad.

[gabisonfan]

Middle of third quarter on it took about 30 seconds per play. You can win if you're ahead, but not way behind. It seemed like the offense was stuck in time.
Who's in charge. The opposition? WTF.

[HerdBot]

I thought Miller looked pretty good at times. I thought after the first TD drive we had found something. Opened it up with the pass. I thought they could keep doing that and spread them out, hit some tight ends over the middle, etc.

It's not the QB. It's the entire system that Entz and a Roehl have ruined by turning us into a spread offense. That's the same offense we used to make fun of

[DCinOK]

Bison should NEVER get beat as bad as they got beat today. Something is seriously wrong. They are not what they've been during the dynasty. You will hear "Don't panic!" and "Don't over react to this loss!" yet that is what is needed. We've seen them lose, but not lose like this.

[tjbison]

This may be true but today there we’re almost zero holes. RBs had no chance whether is was some scheme and or poor blocking as it might be both.

our passing game isnt a threat to anyone, impossible for the Oline to consistently block 7 guys effectively.

again, in critical crunch time, down by 20, clock ticking our coaches decided to run it 5 times....5 FUCKING times.

[DAS BISON]

Not only too many running backs, but too many different types of offenses.

No identity to the Offense. Week 9. who is the #1 running back?....we don't know, who is the #1 QB?.....we don't know. If you ask the OC RB1 is the QB. Offensive line has not developed. Offensive line is not executing.

1. Matt Entz is an average Head Coach. His statements & game management are very head scratching at times. Doesn't seem to inspire anyone.
2. Tyler Roehl is a below average OC. I'm sorry we don't have Easton & Trey anymore, relying on designed QB runs will not get us there. How about working more on the designed RB runs, help your QB and Defense out by developing a RB and creating and offensive identity.
3. Agree too many offenses and not many of the plays designed to get to playmakers hands.
4. Players effort is there. I see no one dogging it or packing in plays but also don't see a high level of execution. little things like finishing blocks, unforced penalties, urgency.

[Kevin]

Coach O is available.

Just sayin

[Kevin]

The slightly bright spot: Miller played ok given the circumstances.

Absolutely. Kid can improvise.

Which makes the constant qb draws all the more stupid.

[DAS BISON]

It's not the QB. It's the entire system that Entz and a Roehl have ruined by turning us into a spread offense. That's the same offense we used to make fun of

This is so true^^^. 4 and 5 Wides with shotgun, designed QB run.....don't call me a hater when I am making fun of Roehls offense, I make fun of all PAC12 type offenses :):)

[bisonaudit]

Coach O is available.

Just sayin

Sure, until he tries to pick up the Provost’s wife at the gas station again.

[bisonaudit]

This is so true^^^. 4 and 5 Wides with shotgun, designed QB run.....don't call me a hater when I am making fun of Roehls offense. :):)

Can you call it a spread offense if we never stretch the field horizontally?

[DAS BISON]

Can you call it a spread offense if we never stretch the field horizontally?

Well in our case you can't because OC call QB draw 5 straight times, but normally you do when you go 4 and 5 wide and maybe throw it up for your 6'4 and 6'5 Wide receivers to make a one on one play when the clock is running out on the game and you need a quick score on the 20 something yard line and your down two scores.....idk

[HerdBot]

Can you call it a spread offense if we never stretch the field horizontally?

:rofl: yeah we're a spread look that never passes and uses am undersized QB with decent speed at the expense of a running back

At least when Vigen and Polasek went shotgun, they would use the receiver as a short pass receiver or motion them as a receiver and the linebacker would follow them, clearing out the middle of the field.

[EC8CH]

Sure, until he tries to pick up the Provost’s wife at the gas station again.

Displays initiative.... He's hired.

[HerdBot]

I thought Miller looked pretty good at times. I thought after the first TD drive we had found something. Opened it up with the pass. I thought they could keep doing that and spread them out, hit some tight ends over the middle, etc.

I thought he had some flashes but over all he was mediocre. Pick. Huge fumble. Missed Luepke on a TD pass. Key delay of game penalties. 1st and goal from the 2.. His running was mediocre and QP2 would have broken at least 1 of those for a long TD. Against good competition, he looks slightly better than last year.

[Kevin]

Displays initiative.... He's hired.

No shit guy beat bama and won an nc. He should get to fuck whoever he wants.

Hell, the provost should have offered.

[OrygunBison]

What I like about Miller is he seems to have a short memory...meaning that a bad play doesn't seem to ruin the next. I'm not so sure that he had that in the spring.

[HerdBot]

What I like about Miller is he seems to have a short memory...meaning that a bad play doesn't seem to ruin the next. I'm not so sure that he had that in the spring.

He's certainly not scared to make mistakes

[Bisonwinagn]

No real surprises SDSU always outcoaches the Bison and prepares for this game the whole year. Also with their playoff's and seed on the line it's unlikely NDSU was going to win. Really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things the Bison will still be a top 4 seed assuming they win out. Playoff's are about matchups and everyone in the Country is beatable this year without any dominant teams.

[bajadanny]

There were no bright spots in this game and there is nothing anyone can say to change my mind. Entz is a shitty head coach. Tyler Is a terrible OC. Braun is fucking terrible. And I’m so sick and tired of people saying who’s better at QB. Every part of this game was fucking gross. Fuck this stupid shit! Fuck SDSU!

Amen brother

[ndsubison1]

The 75 yard play from scrimmage at the start of the game set the tone for the rest of the game. Not diminishing the Bison defense on that play but the Jacks simply managed a great offensive play out of the chute. Remove that play and this comes down to a 4 point game (maybe 2 point 'cuz that sure looked like the QB was downed with the ball in the end zone to me on the Midco camera). I am still not a TR fan as an OC but the pass was being used somewhat at the game opening before panic set in. Maybe the opportunities weren't there today, but short slants and screen plays don't seem to be in the Bison play book.

I think the back to back penalties to give them 1st downs really set the tone. Gotra clean some shit up

We can keep saying it, but the problem is not talent.

[1st&TennBison]

JMU, Montana St, and EWU each only have 1 loss and SHSU is probably going to be #1. So why do people expect NDSU to get a 4th seed in the playoffs if we win out. Sure, I hope we get a fourth seed, but I can also see us getting a 5 seed.

[Professor Chaos]

No real surprises SDSU always outcoaches the Bison and prepares for this game the whole year. Also with their playoff's and seed on the line it's unlikely NDSU was going to win. Really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things the Bison will still be a top 4 seed assuming they win out. Playoff's are about matchups and everyone in the Country is beatable this year without any dominant teams.
Yeah, this is the least concerned I've been after a Bison loss in a long time. Probably because the Vikings fan in me had prepared me to expect a loss but also because they're still all alone at the top of the MVFC standings. If they finish 10-1 with an outright MVFC title, with as good as the MVFC has been this year, I don't see how they're any lower than a #3 seed and if the Griz can knock off the Bobcats in WaGriz in two weeks they'll be the #2 seed. I'd prefer them to be 10-1 and in the top 2 seeds versus 11-0.

This team never felt like an undefeated type team and this was the least damaging loss for them to take if they were going to lose one. Regroup, use this as motivation going forward, and let's make another run!

[bisonaudit]

No real surprises SDSU always outcoaches the Bison and prepares for this game the whole year. Also with their playoff's and seed on the line it's unlikely NDSU was going to win. Really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things the Bison will still be a top 4 seed assuming they win out. Playoff's are about matchups and everyone in the Country is beatable this year without any dominant teams.

You want the 1 or the 2, though. Also, we made a lot of dumb mistakes for this late in the season and we have no idea what to do in a close game which are troubling things to be dealing with entering a playoff with no dominant team where everyone is beatable including us.

[Professor Chaos]

JMU, Montana St, and EWU each only have 1 loss and SHSU is probably going to be #1. So why do people expect NDSU to get a 4th seed in the playoffs if we win out. Sure, I hope we get a fourth seed, but I can also see us getting a 5 seed.
EWU has two losses now. SHSU, when they finish 10-0 with their Charmin soft schedule, is going to be the #1 or the #2. Montana St, if they win out will be #1 or #2 but they've got a tough one in Missoula in two weeks. JMU at 10-1 should be seeded below NDSU at 10-1 since their best OOC win (Weber St) got knocked out of playoff contention today and the CAA has been garbage this year. I'd say the #3 seed is the floor if the Bison win out.

[1st&TennBison]

JMU, Montana St, and EWU each only have 1 loss and SHSU is probably going to be #1. So why do people expect NDSU to get a 4th seed in the playoffs if we win out. Sure, I hope we get a fourth seed, but I can also see us getting a 5 seed.

God dang I am behind today, I just saw that EWU lost to Mt St. So forget what I said.

[tjbison]

EWU has two losses now. SHSU, when they finish 10-0 with their Charmin soft schedule, is going to be the #1 or the #2. Montana St, if they win out will be #1 or #2 but they've got a tough one in Missoula in two weeks. JMU at 10-1 should be seeded below NDSU at 10-1 since their best OOC win (Weber St) got knocked out of playoff contention today and the CAA has been garbage this year. I'd say the #3 seed is the floor if the Bison win out.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the selection committee, its as baffling as our offense

[1st&TennBison]

EWU has two losses now. SHSU, when they finish 10-0 with their Charmin soft schedule, is going to be the #1 or the #2. Montana St, if they win out will be #1 or #2 but they've got a tough one in Missoula in two weeks. JMU at 10-1 should be seeded below NDSU at 10-1 since their best OOC win (Weber St) got knocked out of playoff contention today and the CAA has been garbage this year. I'd say the #3 seed is the floor if the Bison win out.

Yeah, I saw just seconds after I posted that EWU lost. I myself would rather be in whatever position puts us on the same side as SHSU. I just feel that they could get tripped up in the second or third round. And we could have home field in the playoffs.

[bajadanny]

Lol...isn't that something

And people will defend it
No shit man just sick of it

[scottietohottie]

with their Charmin soft schedule

We've got shit on our fingers now bro.

[bajadanny]

The last part of your post is spot on (not dissing on earlier part tho, either). It’s time to use our best players all the time, and get them the ball. The lack of TE use is baffling, as is our RB rotation. I believe we have players on D that could be our best RB, and Luepke needs to be played way more.

This is just ridiculous, as is play calling. There is zero rhyme or reason to it. We don’t not set anything up at all. It’s more like “hey, let’s run this and see what happens”. Also, we need to be way more punctual and urgent on O, whether we are winning or losing. Remember when we decided to huddle 5 yards from LOS so we could get up to ball sooner and get going? Hell, now we are kicking if we get to the LOS 5 seconds before play-clock runs out. Get the fuck up there, snap the ball and put/keep pressure on the D for once. O

Players are a reflection of coaches, and that reflection right now looks sloppy, undisciplined, lack of ass-kicking attitude and very little football IQ. Good God!

Man you got that right, always helping up the opposite team player was sicking nothing wrong with being a good sport but man some of that shit was ridiculous

[fmfantasy]

We didnt look great but everyone knows we are winning the next 4 games by an average of 21 plus... Thats whats wrong with the FCS..

[tjbison]

Analyze and comment the no call on this one lol...wow worse than I thoughthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211107/bc32e5719e60024df3d5ca5d76ae0474.jpg

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[Professor Chaos]

Never underestimate the stupidity of the selection committee, its as baffling as our offense
When was the last time the committee under-seeded NDSU?

[garbageman]

We need to lay the wood to the next 2 games. Entz doesn’t have to be the nice guy

[bisonaudit]

We didnt look great but everyone knows we are winning the next 4 games by an average of 21 plus... Thats whats wrong with the FCS..

Well, these are the two best teams in the country so…

[tjbison]

When was the last time the committee under-seeded NDSU?Didn't say they did, but also can't say they have a great record of doing things right

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[Professor Chaos]

Analyze and comment the no call on this one lol...wow worse than I thought
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211107/bc32e5719e60024df3d5ca5d76ae0474.jpg

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That was awful... although it made up for the ticky-tack PI they called on Gardner in the endzone the drive before that set up the first and goal from the 2 (where Cam fumbled the snap on first down and they ended up turning it over on downs).

The officiating was not good today but it seemed like there were bad calls in both directions. For instance, they gave NDSU a gift on that Phoenix Sproles forward progress call. They gave SDSU a gift on that 3rd down completion to a Janke brother in the 2nd half where he had the ball knocked away before he could even tuck it into his body after the "catch".

I also would like an IndyBison ruling on the roughing the punter call where the ball skipped off the turf to the punter. I thought that if the ball hits the turf the punter is free game??? Or does the punter have to actually drop the ball for that to be the case? In this case the ball skipped off the turf on the snap.

[bisonaudit]

When was the last time the committee under-seeded NDSU?

2017. .

[tjbison]

That was awful... although it made up for the ticky-tack PI they called on Gardner in the endzone the drive before that set up the first and goal from the 2 (where Cam fumbled the snap on first down and they ended up turning it over on downs).

The officiating was not good today but it seemed like there were bad calls in both directions. For instance, they gave NDSU a gift on that Phoenix Sproles forward progress call. They gave SDSU a gift on that 3rd down completion to a Janke brother in the 2nd half where he had the ball knocked away before he could even tuck it into his body after the "catch".Oh I agree, and in no way did the refs cause ndsu to lose but this one is bad...bad

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[Professor Chaos]

2017. .
If they get underseeded at #2 I'll take it. IIRC in 2017 they gave #1 seed JMU a tougher path (putting JSU, SHSU, and Wofford as the seeded teams on NDSU's side of the bracket).

[bisonaudit]

If they get underseeded at #2 I'll take it. IIRC in 2017 they gave #1 seed JMU a tougher path (putting JSU, SHSU, and Wofford as the seeded teams on NDSU's side of the bracket).

Yep, we had the easier side of the bracket that year.

2015 we should have been 1 but they put us at 3.

[1st&TennBison]

Analyze and comment the no call on this one lol...wow worse than I thoughthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211107/bc32e5719e60024df3d5ca5d76ae0474.jpg

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This picture says a lot, why wasn't NDSU throwing at #21 a lot? With that cast what would the chances be that he picks one off.

[Kevin]

This picture says a lot, why wasn't NDSU throwing at #21 a lot? With that cast what would the chances be that he picks one off.

Because you can’t throw and run qb counter at the same time.

[Professor Chaos]

Didn't say they did, but also can't say they have a great record of doing things right

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I think they've done a pretty good job. If you worship at the church of Sagarin/Massey you can throw plenty of criticism their way but I think they do a reasonably good job of avoiding politics as much as possible. I'm biased since I vote in it but I think the AGS Poll does a pretty good job of ranking teams and the committee generally mirrors the AGS Poll moreso than the "national" polls like the STATS and Coaches polls.

[bisonaudit]

I think they've done a pretty good job. If you worship at the church of Sagarin/Massey you can throw plenty of criticism their way but I think they do a reasonably good job of avoiding politics as much as possible. I'm biased since I vote in it but I think the AGS Poll does a pretty good job of ranking teams and the committee generally mirrors the AGS Poll moreso than the "national" polls like the STATS and Coaches polls.

The most important thing the committee does is determine the byes, and they aren’t very good at it. It’s only impacted NDSU indirectly because we’re not close to the seed bubble. Nevertheless, they don’t do this very well.

[Professor Chaos]

The most important thing the committee does is determine the byes, and they aren’t very good at it. It’s only impacted NDSU indirectly because we’re not close to the seed bubble. Nevertheless, they don’t do this very well.
Since 2013 when they expanded to 8 seeds seeded teams have won 73% of their 2nd round games and then the higher seeded team has won 73% of their quarterfinal games and 71% of their semifinal games. The committee has had their misses but they're not nearly as bad as some of you on this board make them out to be.

[bisonaudit]

Since 2013 when they expanded to 8 seeds seeded teams have won 73% of their 2nd round games and then the higher seeded team has won 73% of their quarterfinal games and 71% of their semifinal games. The committee has had their misses but they're not nearly as bad as some of you on this board make them out to be.

A seed is worth about 6 points. You don’t have to be the better team to win when you’re handed that kind of advantage.

[Professor Chaos]

A seed is worth about 6 points. You don’t have to be the better team to win when you’re handed that kind of advantage.
So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy then that you're making. Even if the seeds teams win it's only because the committee gave them the advantage of making them a seed.

But I'll play along. I assume you're using Sagarin's number to come up with those point advantages. I don't know what he gives for a bye week advantage anymore but that's only applicable in the 2nd round anyway and his homefield advantage this year is 2.1 points. So if I look back at the 41 wins by seeded teams in the 2nd round between 2013-2019 six of them were by less than 6 points. However, of the 29 wins by higher seeds (out of 40 total games involving seeded teams) in the quarters and semis in that timeframe none were by fewer than 3 points. So using Sagarin's formula none of the outcomes in the quarterfinals or semifinals from 2013-2019 would've been changed by playing them on a neutral field instead at the higher seed's home field. The higher seed won 72.5% of those games.

[Son of a Bison]

I said fuck myself no lube when on play 3 of the entire game they went 75 yards untouched. I just felt like all off-season the SDSU coaches think about this game. We just say we are the Bison and we don’t want to beat ourselves.

Remember the trick Ryan Smith play that SDSU copied half decade after? Fucking do that again. Or something that inspired - “we got this!!”

Don’t hit the punter…………..! We did this agaianst Georgie Southern (now FBS) and almost lost a semifinal game. C’mon Bison!





Yeah, because our coaching has not shown a ability to adapt. Coaching in this game was garbage. And like a different poster said before, only our players ability kept us in the game like we were. The coaches in this game will be the same ones coaching in the playoffs. When you read a bad book twice, it is still a bad book the second time.

[RonMexico]

1) we could have won this but we can’t and won’t with coaching like this. I knew this was done when entz said no offensive adjustments at half time.
2) luepke getting no carries is inexcusable. Kobe Johnson should not be the feature back and dom clearly isn’t healthy.
3) roehl can only call qb run in high pressure situations. It’s comical at this point.
4) congrats to sdsu. Creative play calling on offense and impressive qb and rb play.
5) nothing else to add. What a shitshow.


Apparently Entz thinks the defense should hold teams to under 10 points to compliment the prevent offense.

[1st&TennBison]

Analyze and comment the no call on this one lol...wow worse than I thoughthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211107/bc32e5719e60024df3d5ca5d76ae0474.jpg

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If I am not mistaken, when they showed the replay from up the sideline going towards the end zone, Mathis was already taking steps out of bounds when the grab happened. Plus the ball seemed to go over his right shoulder from that view. Sure looked like the pass was uncatchable and if he could have caught it he would have been out of bounds anyway.

[El_Chapo]

When you have 6 running backs you really don’t have a running game at all.

THIS , there is 2 games left.

Feed Gonella the ball 15 times this week (If he has 100+ repeat, if not THEN NEXT game you feed Johnson 15 times

let's experiment for fucks sake

[Kevin]

THIS , there is 2 games left.

Feed Gonella the ball 15 times this week (If he has 100+ repeat, if not THEN NEXT game you feed Johnson 15 times

let's experiment for fucks sake

I’ve seen enough of Kobe tbh.

Dom is clearly not healthy.

Alternate series with Williams and luepke. Spell them with the bus and Kobe on certain downs and distances.

[NDSU92]

So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy then that you're making. Even if the seeds teams win it's only because the committee gave them the advantage of making them a seed.

But I'll play along. I assume you're using Sagarin's number to come up with those point advantages. I don't know what he gives for a bye week advantage anymore but that's only applicable in the 2nd round anyway and his homefield advantage this year is 2.1 points. So if I look back at the 41 wins by seeded teams in the 2nd round between 2013-2019 six of them were by less than 6 points. However, of the 29 wins by higher seeds (out of 40 total games involving seeded teams) in the quarters and semis in that timeframe none were by fewer than 3 points. So using Sagarin's formula none of the outcomes in the quarterfinals or semifinals from 2013-2019 would've been changed by playing them on a neutral field instead at the higher seed's home field. The higher seed won 72.5% of those games.

Well messing up the home vs away is a 6 point swing. You go from -3 to +3 (that’s usually what it is most years). IIRC, a bye is also a 3 point swing (I would guess it would have to be more in the context of playoffs, end of season, etc.) So now you’re looking for 9 point swings. In second round games.

You gotta look at it only in the context of the games they’re messing up though too. NDSU and whoever is #2 ass blasting their way through the playoffs every year doesn’t at all provide confirmation of the committee’s playoff seeding. Finding the games where the committee ranked someone when analytical evaluation shows they had no business being ranked is the key and only analyzing those games.

To me it’s similar to how I think the NBA is rigged. Fouls are called on away teams at a clip slightly higher (like 55-60% of all calls or something). Seems innocuous, but the difference could be like 6 or 7 points. Then, couple that with the fact that the biggest discrepancy in foul calls happens at the end of games when free throws are on the line and wildly swing potential game outcomes and it becomes a bigger problem.

[GreenfieldBison]

If I am not mistaken, when they showed the replay from up the sideline going towards the end zone, Mathis was already taking steps out of bounds when the grab happened. Plus the ball seemed to go over his right shoulder from that view. Sure looked like the pass was uncatchable and if he could have caught it he would have been out of bounds anyway.

Pretty sure you are correct about this.

[semobison]

If I am not mistaken, when they showed the replay from up the sideline going towards the end zone, Mathis was already taking steps out of bounds when the grab happened. Plus the ball seemed to go over his right shoulder from that view. Sure looked like the pass was uncatchable and if he could have caught it he would have been out of bounds anyway.

Yep, no PI on that play but we have a good case for defensive holding.

[tjbison]

If I am not mistaken, when they showed the replay from up the sideline going towards the end zone, Mathis was already taking steps out of bounds when the grab happened. Plus the ball seemed to go over his right shoulder from that view. Sure looked like the pass was uncatchable and if he could have caught it he would have been out of bounds anyway.

Its also called Holding

[HerdBot]

Analyze and comment the no call on this one lol...wow worse than I thoughthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211107/bc32e5719e60024df3d5ca5d76ae0474.jpg

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The ball was uncatchable and he stepped out of bounds

[Kevin]

The ball was uncatchable and he stepped out of bounds

Cool story bro now explain why sdsu had 12 guys on the field on six separate plays yesterday.

[1st&TennBison]

Yep, no PI on that play but we have a good case for defensive holding.

Just wondering here, but when players are out of bounds. Do some penalties become a no call. Like holding. Yes there are penalties out of bounds like late hits and unsportsmanlike conduct things that usually happen after the play is over. But if I am not mistaken, a defender does not have to allow a offensive player back into the field of play? Thus they can block them from getting back in bounds? So I wonder, if Mathis is taking steps out of bounds on this part of that play, would holding count?

[1st&TennBison]

Cool story bro now explain why sdsu had 12 guys on the field on six separate plays yesterday.

I wonder about this. I kept reading posts about 12 guys on the field a few times, but never caught a glimpse of it on TV. Was it 12 guys in the huddle and lined up sort of thing? Or was it someone trying to get off the field in time before the snap?

[NodakGreg]

No matter what we do in the next two games, even if we win 64-0 each time, we are not going to beat SDSU in the playoffs if we meet them. Play calling in this game is total horse manure. And stupid mistakes. Waste of time clock at the end of the first half to give SDSU time to kick a FG. And no idea of what a hurry up offense is at the end of the second half. Coaches had better do some serious thinking about their actions. If you really think about it, NDSU could have won this game in a close one with all the screw ups.

Could of we won it? Twice in the red zone, couldn't score? Yes play calling was terrible in those moments...
9 penalties, 3 penalties on one SDSU drive that kept it alive and 7 points resulted. Horrible.
2 turnovers, yes Cam looks good by did make the 2 turnovers, its tough being the QB sometimes, but you have to hang onto the ball when you run, and yes an interception can happen, that really killed our momentum as we were moving the ball well on our way down the field again to tie it up 14-14, but didn't happen.

Bottom line - BIG game, rival, a MUST WIN for them, best 2 teams in FCS, someone is going to lose.
Turnovers and penalties killed us.
Clock Mngnt - terrible for sure.
Bison teams of the past didn't turn it over and if we did,, we lost......Frisco teams in past had 1 lost most of the time, and it helped make our team better.

I think this loss will help the entire team and coaches realize they aren't who they think they are yet, get back to basics, and finish out the season the best they can and be 10-1 which is all you can ask at this time.

If this team does not play up to their potential coaches should be nervous that is for sure....

[scottietohottie]

I wonder about this. I kept reading posts about 12 guys on the field a few times, but never caught a glimpse of it on TV. Was it 12 guys in the huddle and lined up sort of thing? Or was it someone trying to get off the field in time before the snap?

Maybe it's a ready made excuse for the 2 meat heads on the coaching staff bro.

[HerdBot]

Cool story bro now explain why sdsu had 12 guys on the field on six separate plays yesterday.

12 men on the field? That would give them an advantage

[GreenfieldBison]

Cool story bro now explain why sdsu had 12 guys on the field on six separate plays yesterday.

Apparently they read Bisonville and they were using your playbook.

[gavin2126]

Cool story bro now explain why sdsu had 12 guys on the field on six separate plays yesterday.Good catch bro. Another thing they got away with was their scoreboard operator switching the scores whenever we had the ball, making Entz and TR thinking we had the lead. By the time we realized what they were doing it was way too late. I sent off a harshly worded email to the conference reporting their shenanigans.

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[1st&TennBison]

I also gotta wonder about the deal with these rugby style punters. They say one big advantage they have with their running off to one side or the other just before they kick is that they can take off running up field and most defenders would not know what their intentions are until they cross the line of scrimmage. Puts the defense at a huge disadvantage. I can't believe there isn't a rule in place that if the punter takes so many steps (or gives the illusion of running) that they become fair game. Hell, with the current rules a rugby punter could run right up as far as the LOS and pooch a low drive 5 feet off the ground, get hit right away and draw a penalty every time.
Either way, the more I think of that play. Kind of hard to blame the defender. The snap did hit the ground and who knew if the punter was going to run the ball.

[runtheoption]

Stop talking. Maybe you should know you dumb ass.

In reference to our slow start: "Maybe I’ve got to make it a bigger deal than what it is," Entz said. I don't know."

Talking about the roughing the punter: "We had a stop right after a turnover, which was going to be critical, and then we feel like running into the punter," Entz said "That's something we cover every time we have a punt defense meeting. I think it is ingrained in our kids' heads. But maybe that situation was too big for that young man. I don't know."

[HerdistheWord]

Stop talking. Maybe you should know you dumb ass.

In reference to our slow start: "Maybe I’ve got to make it a bigger deal than what it is," Entz said. I don't know."

Talking about the roughing the punter: "We had a stop right after a turnover, which was going to be critical, and then we feel like running into the punter," Entz said "That's something we cover every time we have a punt defense meeting. I think it is ingrained in our kids' heads. But maybe that situation was too big for that young man. I don't know."

Not sure why, but Entz’s comment about the moment being too big for his player really rubs me the wrong way. It seems like he is really trying to place more blame on player execution than himself. That is a big change from guys like Klieman.

[runtheoption]

Not sure why, but Entz’s comment about the moment being too big for his player really rubs me the wrong way. It seems like he is really trying to place more blame on player execution than himself. That is a big change from guys like Klieman.

I agree. He is very close to being one of those coaches that throws his players under the bus.

[westnodak93bison]

I agree. He is very close to being one of those coaches that throws his players under the bus.He certainly can't handle critisism.

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[1st&TennBison]

My point about the punter is, at what point does the punter actually become considered a runner. Does he need to cross the LOS to be tackled? What if he runs from the point he gets the ball and gets right to the sideline and LOS but at the last split second manages to kick without it getting tipped or blocked? Does him running 20 yards straight towards the sideline turn him into a runner? Or are the rules stated in such a way that no matter where the punter ends up, as long as he is behind the LOS and gets off the kick you can't touch him? I can't find an answer on the web that is why I am asking here.

[bisonaudit]

I agree. He is very close to being one of those coaches that throws his players under the bus.

It seems to me that if you’re going to be a bad at the game day decisions (which he is, unquestionably) you had better be great at the interpersonal and motivational stuff and great during the week. These things, the number of mental errors this deep in a season, and the complete inability to run a two minute offense after 10 weeks leads me to believe that maybe he’s not great at the interpersonal stuff or during the week either.

[Kevin]

Losing faith in entz every week.

[1st&TennBison]

Losing faith in entz every week.

Call Vigen, SAVE THE SEASON

[NDSU92]

My point about the punter is, at what point does the punter actually become considered a runner. Does he need to cross the LOS to be tackled? What if he runs from the point he gets the ball and gets right to the sideline and LOS but at the last split second manages to kick without it getting tipped or blocked? Does him running 20 yards straight towards the sideline turn him into a runner? Or are the rules stated in such a way that no matter where the punter ends up, as long as he is behind the LOS and gets off the kick you can't touch him? I can't find an answer on the web that is why I am asking here.

My understanding is that any player who is essentially eligible to pass (ball hasn’t crossed LOS, no previous forward pass, etc.) is eligible to punt, and therefore able to be flagged when roughed

[Kevin]

Call Vigen, SAVE THE SEASON

Tbh I don’t know who else you call at this point. Probably the best bet.


Edit: other than coach o of course. But lakes and I are handling that

[1st&TennBison]

My understanding is that any player who is essentially eligible to pass (ball hasn’t crossed LOS, no previous forward pass, etc.) is eligible to punt, and therefore able to be flagged when roughed

So basically no matter what the punter is doing, as long as he manages to kick the ball in any fashion that goes beyond the LOS you can't touch him at all.

[bajadanny]

I agree. He is very close to being one of those coaches that throws his players under the bus.

The guy is a d 2

No Stick no Lance this is what we watch

[GreenfieldBison]

The guy is a d 2

No Stick no Lance this is what we watch

So this game was with a Stick and a Klieman. Is this what you prefer?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/400951074


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[runtheoption]

It seems to me that if you’re going to be a bad at the game day decisions (which he is, unquestionably) you had better be great at the interpersonal and motivational stuff and great during the week. These things, the number of mental errors this deep in a season, and the complete inability to run a two minute offense after 10 weeks leads me to believe that maybe he’s not great at the interpersonal stuff or during the week either.

I agree on all the points you just made.

[HerdistheWord]

So this game was with a Stick and a Klieman. Is this what you prefer?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/400951074


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Stick had a terrible game, but he developed tremendously afterwards. I actually think Cam Miller has a lot of things in common with younger Easton Stick. I think our players will be fine, but our coaches haven’t really shown a lot of adjustment. It seems like the same old stuff.

[GreenfieldBison]

Stick had a terrible game, but he developed tremendously afterwards. I actually think Cam Miller has a lot of things in common with younger Easton Stick. I think our players will be fine, but our coaches haven’t really shown a lot of adjustment. It seems like the same old stuff.

Yeah that game was a wake up for that team and if my memory serves they ended the season on a high note. Perhaps history repeats?


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[GreenfieldBison]

Losses are tough pills to swallow for sure. But hey, at least we didn’t just extend our HC for $35M and then lay an egg against Illinois. At home.


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[scbison91]

Losing faith in entz every week.The sun will come out tomorrow.......

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[westnodak93bison]

The sun will come out tomorrow.......

Sent from my SM-A505U using TapatalkYeah but will our coaching staff and players see the light?

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[OrygunBison]

I’ve seen enough of Kobe tbh.

Dom is clearly not healthy.

Alternate series with Williams and luepke. Spell them with the bus and Kobe on certain downs and distances.

^^^^^^^^^ Truth ^^^^^^^^

If methman and I can see this CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY, it really makes you wonder what in the hell the coaches are seeing. Seriously.

[bajadanny]

So this game was with a Stick and a Klieman. Is this what you prefer?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/400951074


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Absolutely the outcome would have been different that’s the point buddy

[td577]

I want impressed by anything the the Bison did yesterday, but I didn't leave the game thinking the bunnies did anything to convince me they would win a playoff game in Fargo either.

Before the game I didn't think the bunnies could score more than 20 on this defense. I don't think they do if you don't extend their drives with 3rd down penalties.

The one position group where Bison depth is hurting right now is linebacker. There is no rotation going on there right now because they are short staffed. In the long run, the linebackers will benefit from the reps but they are playing more than anyone.

When they use TEs, they effectively move the ball and score. If Miller is the guy, the TEs have to be used more. Too many stalled out drives.

I do think if this Bison team is going to win a championship, it is going to be with QP this season. He brings a deep run and pass threat. I like Miller, but he is still developing physically and doesn't scare anyone deep.

Clean up penalties and turnovers, this is a different game. They also need to actually have a hurry up offense.

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[56BISON73]

I want impressed by anything the the Bison did yesterday, but I didn't leave the game thinking the bunnies did anything to convince me they would win a playoff game in Fargo either.

Before the game I didn't think the bunnies could score more than 20 on this defense. I don't think they do if you don't extend their drives with 3rd down penalties.

The one position group where Bison depth is hurting right now is linebacker. There is no rotation going on there right now because they are short staffed. In the long run, the linebackers will benefit from the reps but they are playing more than anyone.

When they use TEs, they effectively move the ball and score. If Miller is the guy, the TEs have to be used more. Too many stalled out drives.

I do think if this Bison team is going to win a championship, it is going to be with QP this season. He brings a deep run and pass threat. I like Miller, but he is still developing physically and doesn't scare anyone deep.

Clean up penalties and turnovers, this is a different game. They also need to actually have a hurry up offense.

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Phil Hanson said we did more for SDSU than what SDSU did for themselves. Even though SDSU played very well.

[DCinOK]

I want impressed by anything the the Bison did yesterday, but I didn't leave the game thinking the bunnies did anything to convince me they would win a playoff game in Fargo either.

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Why would a game in Fargo be any different than what we saw yesterday in Brookings? I'm a Bison fan in Oklahoma who doesn't understand the empty seats in the Fargodome every week. Not the same noise. Not the same homefield advantage. Bison fan apathy/fatigue in Fargo has rubbed off on the team. Understandable because "we're bored with FCS?" Please. Pack the dome. Beat SDSU every year, at home or on the road. Keep the Bison Brand what we brag about it being....we should NEVER lose to sdsu, at least not the way we lost yesterday.

[56BISON73]

Why would a game in Fargo be any different than what we saw yesterday in Brookings? I'm a Bison fan in Oklahoma who doesn't understand the empty seats in the Fargodome every week. Not the same noise. Not the same homefield advantage. Bison fan apathy/fatigue in Fargo has rubbed off on the team. Understandable because "we're bored with FCS?" Please. Pack the dome. Beat SDSU every year, at home or on the road. Keep the Bison Brand what we brag about it being....we should NEVER lose to sdsu, at least not the way we lost yesterday.

Were you a Bison fan before 2012? If you were you know that there were many years where the dome wast packed.

[GreenfieldBison]

Well I can’t claim to be the football genius that most of the rest here clearly are and I have not coached the game at any level. Not only that but I have never played Madden anything.

However from where I am standing it is not clear to me whether the Bison shouldn’t consider firing some fans.


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[ByeSonBusiness]

A seed is worth about 6 points. You don’t have to be the better team to win when you’re handed that kind of advantage.

The advantage of playing at home in front of 4500 people?

[TAILG8R]

The sun will come out tomorrow.......

Sent from my SM-A505U using TapatalkUnfortunately so will the coaches.

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[Kujava23]

At one point in the spring or after that shit season CAS mentioned something about Roehl's welcome wearing out inside the program and alluded to the staff knowing and expecting things to change or else.

I'm curious CAS, am I remembering correctly and what do you think the talk is now and will anyone have the balls to make a change on a 12-2 team that doesn't win the natty?

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Great question

[Kujava23]

The 75 yard play from scrimmage at the start of the game set the tone for the rest of the game. Not diminishing the Bison defense on that play but the Jacks simply managed a great offensive play out of the chute. Remove that play and this comes down to a 4 point game (maybe 2 point 'cuz that sure looked like the QB was downed with the ball in the end zone to me on the Midco camera). I am still not a TR fan as an OC but the pass was being used somewhat at the game opening before panic set in. Maybe the opportunities weren't there today, but short slants and screen plays don't seem to be in the Bison play book.

Yeah run a damn screen to RB...or hell even a TE

[Kujava23]

That is the worst Bison fb game I've ever seen in person. Poor play calling, poor discipline, stupid penalties, no urgency, crap body language on the sideline and the time management - good god! The only player being vocal on the sideline was #67

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We were outcoached but more disappointing was lack of discipline by Bison players....its only one loss but this game was over early ANDDDD i'm very optimistic and have faith for long time

[Kujava23]

It's not the QB. It's the entire system that Entz and a Roehl have ruined by turning us into a spread offense. That's the same offense we used to make fun of

I agree---I hate using shotgun formation 80% of the time.

I used to love watching our formation shifts----motion...and being the most physical team on the field----

[Kujava23]

This may be true but today there we’re almost zero holes. RBs had no chance whether is was some scheme and or poor blocking as it might be both.

Well how bout when keep running blitzing on 1st and 2nd down---run a screen, bubble screen, quick slant-----to go against that....maybe ONCE adjust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IzzyFlexion]

I agree---I hate using shotgun formation 80% of the time.

I used to love watching our formation shifts----motion...and being the most physical team on the field----

Speaking of motion, I don't recall any jet motion in yesterday's game. Would be the first time in a long time.

[Kujava23]

No identity to the Offense. Week 9. who is the #1 running back?....we don't know, who is the #1 QB?.....we don't know. If you ask the OC RB1 is the QB. Offensive line has not developed. Offensive line is not executing.

1. Matt Entz is an average Head Coach. His statements & game management are very head scratching at times. Doesn't seem to inspire anyone.
2. Tyler Roehl is a below average OC. I'm sorry we don't have Easton & Trey anymore, relying on designed QB runs will not get us there. How about working more on the designed RB runs, help your QB and Defense out by developing a RB and creating and offensive identity.
3. Agree too many offenses and not many of the plays designed to get to playmakers hands.
4. Players effort is there. I see no one dogging it or packing in plays but also don't see a high level of execution. little things like finishing blocks, unforced penalties, urgency.

When we lost our OL coach to Wyoming and than to Vanderbilt late spring----still been trying to adjust i think
our offense has definitely changed a bit---think gotta look at our OL first---who do we run behind when need 3 yards----what is the run play call when need 3 yards?
it is just one loss but the way we've WON is concerning to me----it hasn't been fun to watch...and i don't mean to BLOW teams out .....but how our offense has executed

[Kujava23]

I thought he had some flashes but over all he was mediocre. Pick. Huge fumble. Missed Luepke on a TD pass. Key delay of game penalties. 1st and goal from the 2.. His running was mediocre and QP2 would have broken at least 1 of those for a long TD. Against good competition, he looks slightly better than last year.

Agree---he was overcoming play calls or making plays

[Kujava23]

He's certainly not scared to make mistakes

Can someone tell OC that running the QB isn't always advantageous?????

[Kujava23]

I think the back to back penalties to give them 1st downs really set the tone. Gotra clean some shit up

We can keep saying it, but the problem is not talent.

Lack of discipline or bad luck?

[56BISON73]

Lack of discipline or bad luck?

Lack of discipline. It's been constant all year.

[Kujava23]

Yeah, this is the least concerned I've been after a Bison loss in a long time. Probably because the Vikings fan in me had prepared me to expect a loss but also because they're still all alone at the top of the MVFC standings. If they finish 10-1 with an outright MVFC title, with as good as the MVFC has been this year, I don't see how they're any lower than a #3 seed and if the Griz can knock off the Bobcats in WaGriz in two weeks they'll be the #2 seed. I'd prefer them to be 10-1 and in the top 2 seeds versus 11-0.

This team never felt like an undefeated type team and this was the least damaging loss for them to take if they were going to lose one. Regroup, use this as motivation going forward, and let's make another run!

Great points but I also feel this is the worst 8-1 Bison team---Offense is below average and defense hasn't forced many turnovers to compensate for them
I haven't seen much GROWTH from our team---especially offensively

[Kujava23]

Well, these are the two best teams in the country so…

Ok---we were outcoached and out muscled in the trenches!!!!

[Kujava23]

Not sure why, but Entz’s comment about the moment being too big for his player really rubs me the wrong way. It seems like he is really trying to place more blame on player execution than himself. That is a big change from guys like Klieman.

Entz feeling the heat??? Players need to be accountable for their mistakes!

BTW I hate that it was SDSU Super Bowl comments----its a big game regardless and ifffff you have the opportunity to KNOCK your rival out of playoffs on their homefield----after they disrespected your homefield in spring and didn't look like were READY to PLAY---that is on the COACHES----you can't duck that with I DONT KNOW Entz

Bohl was a good coach and leader!!

Kleiman was a great coach and even better leader

Entz still finding his way---i really wonder if he TELLS ROEHL to be conservative on offense and just let the defense stop teams and eventually we will beat teams

it "FEELS" like our coaching has taken a hit...i may be way offffff but just a feeling from games i've watched in spring and this fall

[EndZoneQB]

Entz feeling the heat??? Players need to be accountable for their mistakes!

BTW I hate that it was SDSU Super Bowl comments----its a big game regardless and ifffff you have the opportunity to KNOCK your rival out of playoffs on their homefield----after they disrespected your homefield in spring and didn't look like were READY to PLAY---that is on the COACHES----you can't duck that with I DONT KNOW Entz

Bohl was a good coach and leader!!

Kleiman was a great coach and even better leader

Entz still finding his way---i really wonder if he TELLS ROEHL to be conservative on offense and just let the defense stop teams and eventually we will beat teams

it "FEELS" like our coaching has taken a hit...i may be way offffff but just a feeling from games i've watched in spring and this fall

Coaching has definitely taken a hit. In my opinion, Klieman is all-time type of personality/coach/leader of young men. The chances of finding him was slim to none - Entz doesn't need to be him, nor does he need to be Bohl. Put your stamp on it, but don't screw up the formula. Both Bohl and Klieman knew the insane importance of having a top notch staff around you - I remember Bohl pushing for higher assistant salaries pretty early on in his tenure. That was a great move by him and allowed him to hire people away from other "peers". We were definitely a springboard to bigger jobs, but both Klieman and Bohl laid into that and used it to their advantage. I also feel like both Bohl and Klieman had better "connections" over the years and it showed in assistants. Entz brought in some of his guys for sure, but I just don't think they are of the same quality. Plus - his big mistake is, and probably always will be, hiring Roehl far too early. Bohl sort of did the same thing with Vigen - but at least I saw glimpses with him, especially in year 3.

Have we had a coach hired away to a higher calling since Entz has taken over? It felt like we never went more than a season or two without losing a coach to a promotion with the last two regimes. Maybe no correlation, but then again...

[Kujava23]

Coaching has definitely taken a hit. In my opinion, Klieman is all-time type of personality/coach/leader of young men. The chances of finding him was slim to none - Entz doesn't need to be him, nor does he need to be Bohl. Put your stamp on it, but don't screw up the formula. Both Bohl and Klieman knew the insane importance of having a top notch staff around you - I remember Bohl pushing for higher assistant salaries pretty early on in his tenure. That was a great move by him and allowed him to hire people away from other "peers". We were definitely a springboard to bigger jobs, but both Klieman and Bohl laid into that and used it to their advantage. I also feel like both Bohl and Klieman had better "connections" over the years and it showed in assistants. Entz brought in some of his guys for sure, but I just don't think they are of the same quality. Plus - his big mistake is, and probably always will be, hiring Roehl far too early. Bohl sort of did the same thing with Vigen - but at least I saw glimpses with him, especially in year 3.

Have we had a coach hired away to a higher calling since Entz has taken over? It felt like we never went more than a season or two without losing a coach to a promotion with the last two regimes. Maybe no correlation, but then again...

Good point!!! Well----OL Blazek we lost and WR coach i think

[RonMexico]

Entz feeling the heat??? Players need to be accountable for their mistakes!

BTW I hate that it was SDSU Super Bowl comments----its a big game regardless and ifffff you have the opportunity to KNOCK your rival out of playoffs on their homefield----after they disrespected your homefield in spring and didn't look like were READY to PLAY---that is on the COACHES----you can't duck that with I DONT KNOW Entz

Bohl was a good coach and leader!!

Kleiman was a great coach and even better leader

Entz still finding his way---i really wonder if he TELLS ROEHL to be conservative on offense and just let the defense stop teams and eventually we will beat teams

it "FEELS" like our coaching has taken a hit...i may be way offffff but just a feeling from games i've watched in spring and this fall

Maybe if Entz would have treated this like a big game maybe the team would have been ready. Listening to him talking about the game last week and right before the game is sounded like they were going to be playing Concordia and not one of the better teams in the division.

[EndZoneQB]

Good point!!! Well----OL Blazek we lost and WR coach i think

Good point, I was thinking Blazek was Klieman and crew. I am drawing a blank on the WR coach, but wasn't he a holdover? Or maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

[NDSU]

[QUOTE=EndZoneQB;1536597]Good point, I was thinking Blazek was Klieman and crew. I am drawing a blank on the WR coach, but wasn't he a holdover? Or maybe I'm thinking of someone else.[/QUOTE

When did Noah Pauley leave??

[IndyBison]

I glanced through this thread and saw a couple rules questions. I did not see either play so I can't speak to whether or not the call/no call is correct.

Running into/Roughing Rugby-style kicker
There are 3 ways a kicker loses his protection from roughing/running into. First, a quick kick by someone who isn't normally the kicker because it's not obvious a kick will be attempted. Similarly if a snap is bounced to the kicker or muffed, if it's not obvious he's going to kick it, he loses his protection. Second, if the kicker has had adequate time to protect himself. He's not protected from roughing for the entire down. Finally he loses his protection when he runs outside the tackle box before kicking it. You could still have a personal foul for a late hit or targeting, etc.

One thing I'll add that often plays into determining foul/no foul when the kicker muffs the snap or starts running but stays in the tackle box. The question of whether or not it's obvious a kick will be made. If the defender is doing something that appears to be blocking a kick, it's pretty obvious he knew a kick would be attempted. The action of blocking a kick and tackling a runner are very different. Lots of tricks like that to help us make those quick judgement calls.

DPI on player out of bounds
DPI can only happen on an eligible receiver. A receiver loses eligibility if he goes OOB on his own. If he went OOB on his own then he's no longer eligible. If he was pushed out he must return immediately so if he didn't do that he would also be ineligible. If the defender is holding him preventing him from coming back you could have defensive holding or a personal foul because a defender is not allowed to initiate a block when the blocker is OOB. If this was a potential DPI situation catchability can be a factor, but the threshold for that is pretty high. If the receiver is running OOB already (either on his own or being pushed) it's not likely he's going to be able to catch a pass. If he gets back in bounds and has a chance to catch it you could have a PI.

There are many factors to consider here and a combination of several rules. Ultimately it could also come down to advantage/disadvantage. Just because he defender may restrict an eligible receiver doesn't mean that contact prevented the receiver from having an an opportunity to catch the ass. The picture shared is very likely a restriction when a jersey is pulled that far, but I've seen a lot of jersey tugs that took no steps away from the receiver.

[EC8CH]

I glanced through this thread and saw a couple rules questions. I did not see either play so I can't speak to whether or not the call/no call is correct.

Running into/Roughing Rugby-style kicker
There are 3 ways a kicker loses his protection from roughing/running into. First, a quick kick by someone who isn't normally the kicker because it's not obvious a kick will be attempted. Similarly if a snap is bounced to the kicker or muffed, if it's not obvious he's going to kick it, he loses his protection. Second, if the kicker has had adequate time to protect himself. He's not protected from roughing for the entire down. Finally he loses his protection when he runs outside the tackle box before kicking it. You could still have a personal foul for a late hit or targeting, etc.

One thing I'll add that often plays into determining foul/no foul when the kicker muffs the snap or starts running but stays in the tackle box. The question of whether or not it's obvious a kick will be made. If the defender is doing something that appears to be blocking a kick, it's pretty obvious he knew a kick would be attempted. The action of blocking a kick and tackling a runner are very different. Lots of tricks like that to help us make those quick judgement calls.

DPI on player out of bounds
DPI can only happen on an eligible receiver. A receiver loses eligibility if he goes OOB on his own. If he went OOB on his own then he's no longer eligible. If he was pushed out he must return immediately so if he didn't do that he would also be ineligible. If the defender is holding him preventing him from coming back you could have defensive holding or a personal foul because a defender is not allowed to initiate a block when the blocker is OOB. If this was a potential DPI situation catchability can be a factor, but the threshold for that is pretty high. If the receiver is running OOB already (either on his own or being pushed) it's not likely he's going to be able to catch a pass. If he gets back in bounds and has a chance to catch it you could have a PI.

There are many factors to consider here and a combination of several rules. Ultimately it could also come down to advantage/disadvantage. Just because he defender may restrict an eligible receiver doesn't mean that contact prevented the receiver from having an an opportunity to catch the ass. The picture shared is very likely a restriction when a jersey is pulled that far, but I've seen a lot of jersey tugs that took no steps away from the receiver.

On the punt the snap bounced. That's what Entz was telling the official.

Catching ass can be tricky for sure though.

[Bison Bridge Guy]

On the punt the snap bounced. That's what Entz was telling the official.

Catching ass can be tricky for sure though.

Our guy hit the punter after the kick was away. I dont recall if the penalty was roughing the kicker or personal foul for a late hit.

[El_Chapo]

My understanding is that any player who is essentially eligible to pass (ball hasn’t crossed LOS, no previous forward pass, etc.) is eligible to punt, and therefore able to be flagged when roughed

Tyler Roehl is on the hot seat for the rest of the year. period. end of story. we know it. he knows it. He better come out with some changes.

if I see a QB delayed draw again this year, I'm gonna boo the shit out of it

Play action, roll out & hit a FUCKING RB/TE in the flat. easy peasy.

show me some screens, it's not against the law to do 2-3 / game.

Oh. you have 66 67 height at TE. Tony Gonzalez their asses by having them run 7 yards and boxing out a LB/Safety

Do we have Watson Slant In the playbook AT ALL??

[EC8CH]

Our guy hit the punter after the kick was away. I dont recall if the penalty was roughing the kicker or personal foul for a late hit.

Took a bad angle and couldn't avoid the contact with his momentum.

[Bison Bridge Guy]

Took a bad angle and couldn't avoid the contact with his momentum.

It looked to me like he thought the punter was actually going to run it so he was pursuing and like you said couldn't stop himself. Far from a malicious play and unfortunate.

[WeAreThePride]

At this point I'm just hoping we don't meet SDSU in the playoffs. 3 losses to them in less than a calendar year would be... unpleasant.

[EC8CH]

At this point I'm just hoping we don't meet SDSU in the playoffs. 3 losses to them in less than a calendar year would be... unpleasant.

Could be his angle was bad to block a punt but good for a tackle. Could tell he tried to let up at last second but was too late.

[GreenfieldBison]

On the punt the snap bounced. That's what Entz was telling the official.

Catching ass can be tricky for sure though.

Too right. Those ass can be shifty. Luckily nobody had to try and catch the moose.

[scottietohottie]

Plus the punter kicked rugby stile to the one side. Dang near had to be outside the tackle box to eh. Fuken close eh.

[IndyBison]

On the punt the snap bounced. That's what Entz was telling the official.

Catching ass can be tricky for sure though.

Unless there is a significant delay in him getting into his punting motion and the rusher gets there before he kicks it, it's very likely he's going to try to block a kick because it's obvious he's going to kick it. The key thing to look at is what is the defender doing. If he knows he's going to kick it he's not going to try to tackle him unless he can get to him before he kicks it.

[westnodak93bison]

Sean McVay just took responsibility for the Rams offensive woes. HC Entz/OC Roehl hint hint

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[scottietohottie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlt-xvI5IEw

I might be dumb as fuck but man that would have been a great place to use one of those collector timeouts. Fuck.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

You have to give credit to the jack’s OC (barf). That was a must-win game for them. Does he have deep ties to that program? I wonder if he’ll be the HC when they follow us to FBS in a few years.

Rather lose to them now than when they come to the dome in the playoffs, that’s for sure. D stepped up in the 2nd half. G-Funky might be on to something tho.

[semobison]

Tyler Roehl is on the hot seat for the rest of the year. period. end of story. we know it. he knows it. He better come out with some changes.

if I see a QB delayed draw again this year, I'm gonna boo the shit out of it

Play action, roll out & hit a FUCKING RB/TE in the flat. easy peasy.

show me some screens, it's not against the law to do 2-3 / game.

Oh. you have 66 67 height at TE. Tony Gonzalez their asses by having them run 7 yards and boxing out a LB/Safety

Do we have Watson Slant In the playbook AT ALL??

Rarely agree with anything you post but the Jacks converted 3rd and long twice with the screen and another with a wr slant over the middle.
I don’t think we have that stuff in our playbook!

[Hammerhead]

From what I understand regarding roughing the punter posted at https://www.dfoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021-NCAA-FB-Rulebook.pdf, it doesn't matter if the snap hit the ground or if the punter drops the ball. He is still protected inside the tackle box and I can't remember if he ran far enough to the right to be outside of the box.



I glanced through this thread and saw a couple rules questions. I did not see either play so I can't speak to whether or not the call/no call is correct.

Running into/Roughing Rugby-style kicker
There are 3 ways a kicker loses his protection from roughing/running into. First, a quick kick by someone who isn't normally the kicker because it's not obvious a kick will be attempted. Similarly if a snap is bounced to the kicker or muffed, if it's not obvious he's going to kick it, he loses his protection. Second, if the kicker has had adequate time to protect himself. He's not protected from roughing for the entire down. Finally he loses his protection when he runs outside the tackle box before kicking it. You could still have a personal foul for a late hit or targeting, etc.

One thing I'll add that often plays into determining foul/no foul when the kicker muffs the snap or starts running but stays in the tackle box. The question of whether or not it's obvious a kick will be made. If the defender is doing something that appears to be blocking a kick, it's pretty obvious he knew a kick would be attempted. The action of blocking a kick and tackling a runner are very different. Lots of tricks like that to help us make those quick judgement calls.

DPI on player out of bounds
DPI can only happen on an eligible receiver. A receiver loses eligibility if he goes OOB on his own. If he went OOB on his own then he's no longer eligible. If he was pushed out he must return immediately so if he didn't do that he would also be ineligible. If the defender is holding him preventing him from coming back you could have defensive holding or a personal foul because a defender is not allowed to initiate a block when the blocker is OOB. If this was a potential DPI situation catchability can be a factor, but the threshold for that is pretty high. If the receiver is running OOB already (either on his own or being pushed) it's not likely he's going to be able to catch a pass. If he gets back in bounds and has a chance to catch it you could have a PI.

There are many factors to consider here and a combination of several rules. Ultimately it could also come down to advantage/disadvantage. Just because he defender may restrict an eligible receiver doesn't mean that contact prevented the receiver from having an an opportunity to catch the ass. The picture shared is very likely a restriction when a jersey is pulled that far, but I've seen a lot of jersey tugs that took no steps away from the receiver.

[EC8CH]

From what I understand regarding roughing the punter posted at https://www.dfoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021-NCAA-FB-Rulebook.pdf, it doesn't matter if the snap hit the ground or if the punter drops the ball. He is still protected inside the tackle box and I can't remember if he ran far enough to the right to be outside of the box.

As a practical matter, how is a defender rushing upfield supposed to keep track of the boundaries of the tackle box? Just pointing out this is an area of the rulebook that places defensive players in a bind. Probably is erroring on the side of player safety which is understandable, but the rugby style kicking seems to stretch the rulebook to the limit to take advantage of a ruling that is difficult for defenders to abide by without risk of game changing penalties.

[EC8CH]

Sean McVay just took responsibility for the Rams offensive woes. HC Entz/OC Roehl hint hint

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Step 1 is admitting you have a problem.

[ndsubison1]

Death, taxes, Stig using a trick play vs NDSU.

We will regroup and beat their ass in the playoffs.

[MankatoBison]

Well that sucked, I have to say.

BUT

When we give them a complete freebie opening touchdown, play prevent offense the whole game, gift another TD in the first half with 2 drive extending penalties, SDSU pulling 15-20 trick plays, and still having a chance to tie at the end?

Given the circumstances, we should have lost by 3-4 TDs. As dumb as this sounds, I thought our defense looked excellent outside of the strong opening run and the drive extending penalties.

Playoffs we rip them limb from limb

[EC8CH]

Well that sucked, I have to say.

BUT

When we give them a complete freebie opening touchdown, play prevent offense the whole game, gift another TD in the first half with 2 drive extending penalties, SDSU pulling 15-20 trick plays, and still having a chance to tie at the end?

Given the circumstances, we should have lost by 3-4 TDs. As dumb as this sounds, I thought our defense looked excellent outside of the strong opening run and the drive extending penalties.

Playoffs we rip them limb from limb

Sums up my take aways as well. Outside of the big run and frustrating extended drive, defense played well and limited the cost of the poor play of the offense and kept us in the game. Offense has more systemic issues with inefficiency in the redzone. They need to figure out how to put it in the endzone when they get in scoring position. Bottom line.

[PlrbrBison]

Well that sucked, I have to say.

BUT

When we give them a complete freebie opening touchdown, play prevent offense the whole game, gift another TD in the first half with 2 drive extending penalties, SDSU pulling 15-20 trick plays, and still having a chance to tie at the end?

Given the circumstances, we should have lost by 3-4 TDs. As dumb as this sounds, I thought our defense looked excellent outside of the strong opening run and the drive extending penalties.

Playoffs we rip them limb from limb

I like this post and have had similar thoughts. I don't have the confidence this year that I have in the past. We've got the talent but don't know if we have the discipline, self discipline, coaching or healthy players to do it.

[EC8CH]

Death, taxes, Stig using a trick play vs NDSU.

We will regroup and beat their ass in the playoffs.

and cramps... don't forget the cramps.

[GreenfieldBison]

Well that sucked, I have to say.

BUT

When we give them a complete freebie opening touchdown, play prevent offense the whole game, gift another TD in the first half with 2 drive extending penalties, SDSU pulling 15-20 trick plays, and still having a chance to tie at the end?

Given the circumstances, we should have lost by 3-4 TDs. As dumb as this sounds, I thought our defense looked excellent outside of the strong opening run and the drive extending penalties.

Playoffs we rip them limb from limb

Thoughtful, rational, objective and positive forward looking. I concur.


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[Bisonator98]

It was almost like we were trying to lose the game. I mean 4 min to go down 2 scores and we're huddling up? And then a run?? And then almost a delay of game wtf???

Roehl needs to be relieved of his duties ASAP!

[oldmantutters]

I really liked Entz/Roehl at the start. I know their first game was against Butler but I loved it. They aired it out, they used their tight ends, they didn't just trot out the kicking unit after a touchdown. Where did all of that go?

Add in that they haven't really adjusted or improved upon things like time management and it's not a good look. Plus, I think Entz' comments about people questioning winners being losers was really in bad taste. He makes piles of money and he's going to get heaps of praise when they win, but he needs to be able to handle criticism much better than he has. It comes with the territory.

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[NDSUBowler]

I'm too lazy to make a new thread about polls, but in the STATS poll, SDSU jumped NDSU (4th and 5th) by a healthy margin and that's a load of shit.

I don't care about head to head when SDSU also has losses to #15 and #20.

Are the Jags ahead of the Bills in the latest power polls now?

[bisonaudit]

I'm too lazy to make a new thread about polls, but in the STATS poll, SDSU jumped NDSU (4th and 5th) by a healthy margin and that's a load of shit.

I don't care about head to head when SDSU also has losses to #15 and #20.

Are the Jags ahead of the Bills in the latest power polls now?

The real problem isn’t that SDSU is one slot ahead of NDSU. The real problem is that they’re 4th and 5th.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm too lazy to make a new thread about polls, but in the STATS poll, SDSU jumped NDSU (4th and 5th) by a healthy margin and that's a load of shit.

I don't care about head to head when SDSU also has losses to #15 and #20.

Are the Jags ahead of the Bills in the latest power polls now?
The coaches poll actually has Kennesaw ahead of both of them. :banghead:

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

It’s a hint

[dewey]

The coaches poll actually has Kennesaw ahead of both of them. :banghead:

God the coaches poll is crap.

Dewey

[BISONBRI53]

Stop talking. Maybe you should know you dumb ass.

In reference to our slow start: "Maybe I’ve got to make it a bigger deal than what it is," Entz said. I don't know."

Talking about the roughing the punter: "We had a stop right after a turnover, which was going to be critical, and then we feel like running into the punter," Entz said "That's something we cover every time we have a punt defense meeting. I think it is ingrained in our kids' heads. But maybe that situation was too big for that young man. I don't know."

Listened to that on the way home. Shook my head... Who throws their players under the bus like that?

[Hammerhead]

God the coaches poll is crap.

Dewey

It always has been and it seems like they rarely consider strength of schedule when comparing teams with the same record.

[BISONBRI53]

Did any of our coaches break the glass upstairs for payback?

[IndyBison]

As a practical matter, how is a defender rushing upfield supposed to keep track of the boundaries of the tackle box? Just pointing out this is an area of the rulebook that places defensive players in a bind. Probably is erroring on the side of player safety which is understandable, but the rugby style kicking seems to stretch the rulebook to the limit to take advantage of a ruling that is difficult for defenders to abide by without risk of game changing penalties.

As a rushing team player you don't need to worry about the tackle box. You just need to not hit the kicker while trying to block a kick. If you don't do that you are fine. The rule isn't there to give the defender free reign to hit the kicker after he tries to block it. If he doesn't contact the kicker outside the tackle box he just gets lucky it's not a foul.

The question here is usually is it reasonable to think he is kicking the ball. That's why they often use a philosophy of is the defender trying to block a kick or tackle a runner. Those are two very different acts. If I know he's going to kick it I'm going to reach out or stretch out to block it. If I do that and he's running he's going by me easily. If I think he's going to run and I try to tackle him he'll get the kick off easily. If I get there before he kicks it there is no running/roughing foul. Outside the tackle box I don't have to factor in that judgement. I just have to determine if any contact was unnecessary or excessive.

[Professor Chaos]

As a rushing team player you don't need to worry about the tackle box. You just need to not hit the kicker while trying to block a kick. If you don't do that you are fine. The rule isn't there to give the defender free reign to hit the kicker after he tries to block it. If he doesn't contact the kicker outside the tackle box he just gets lucky it's not a foul.

The question here is usually is it reasonable to think he is kicking the ball. That's why they often use a philosophy of is the defender trying to block a kick or tackle a runner. Those are two very different acts. If I know he's going to kick it I'm going to reach out or stretch out to block it. If I do that and he's running he's going by me easily. If I think he's going to run and I try to tackle him he'll get the kick off easily. If I get there before he kicks it there is no running/roughing foul. Outside the tackle box I don't have to factor in that judgement. I just have to determine if any contact was unnecessary or excessive.
Doesn't the rule on roughing the punter change if the ball hits the ground? I remember Ben LeCompte getting hit, ironically enough in a game in Brookings a few years ago, on a punt without the rusher touching the ball but it was not ruled a penalty because he muffed the snap and picked it up. Does that only apply if the snap is muffed as opposed to skipped off the turf?

[EC8CH]

As a rushing team player you don't need to worry about the tackle box. You just need to not hit the kicker while trying to block a kick. If you don't do that you are fine. The rule isn't there to give the defender free reign to hit the kicker after he tries to block it. If he doesn't contact the kicker outside the tackle box he just gets lucky it's not a foul.
.

Just a little trickier for a defender knowing when a punter is going for a kick or a fake with the newer rugby style kickers. Hard to choose an appropriate angle to block a kick or make a tackle when the punters movement blurs the line between fake and kick. Probably part of the reason it's becoming so popular as a punting style but I do think it leverages the protection afforded to punters.

[The_Sicatoka]

... but I do think it leverages the protection afforded to punters.

After a third step a punter is now a run/pass/punt option player with no special protections?

[EC8CH]

After a third step a punter is now a run/pass/punt option player with no special protections?

That must be a suggestion cause no way is that the current rule.

[dewey]

Did any of our coaches break the glass upstairs for payback?

We didn't win so maybe that is why our coaches didn't break the glass.

Dewey

[IndyBison]

Doesn't the rule on roughing the punter change if the ball hits the ground? I remember Ben LeCompte getting hit, ironically enough in a game in Brookings a few years ago, on a punt without the rusher touching the ball but it was not ruled a penalty because he muffed the snap and picked it up. Does that only apply if the snap is muffed as opposed to skipped off the turf?I don't know for sure on that play but my guess is it wasn't reasonably certain he was going to kick it. If by the time the player picks up the ball he's got defenders near him, he's making the decision to kick or run. If he does kick it he has protection if he's still in the tackle box. But if the action if the defender that make contact immediately after the ball is kicked was an attempt to tackle and not an attempt to block then it likely wasn't obvious he was going to kick it. Again you would never do the opposite of what you think will happen because it won't be effective.

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[Professor Chaos]

I don't know for sure on that play but my guess is it wasn't reasonably certain he was going to kick it. If by the time the player picks up the ball he's got defenders near him, he's making the decision to kick or run. If he does kick it he has protection if he's still in the tackle box. But if the action if the defender that make contact immediately after the ball is kicked was an attempt to tackle and not an attempt to block then it likely wasn't obvious he was going to kick it. Again you would never do the opposite of what you think will happen because it won't be effective.

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Found that old LeCompte play... don't ask my why I remember stuff like this 8 years later cuz I don't know why: https://youtu.be/91ez76W_v7M?t=3618

Looks like in that case the rushers were moreso going for the tackle than the blocked kick so I guess that would explain the no call.

[CAS4127]

I really liked Entz/Roehl at the start. I know their first game was against Butler but I loved it. They aired it out, they used their tight ends, they didn't just trot out the kicking unit after a touchdown. Where did all of that go?

Add in that they haven't really adjusted or improved upon things like time management and it's not a good look. Plus, I think Entz' comments about people questioning winners being losers was really in bad taste. He makes piles of money and he's going to get heaps of praise when they win, but he needs to be able to handle criticism much better than he has. It comes with the territory.

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Way to much analytics and attempts at mismatches being used. Way too much. I get motioning to adjust strength, etc., but we don’t really need to create mismatches, as we have them comparatively before we even line up. Just make it simple and let players make plays.

My HS football coach was asked by media (after little Mahnomen put helmets on and kicked the crap out of higher division team Thief River Falls) if he ever worried about other teams knowing what we were going to do. His response: “I just wanna make damn sure my players know what they are doing”.

I’m not suggesting we run QB power all the time ... what I am suggesting is allow your players to make plays. Do we really need to create mismatches for our TEs? They already exist at the LOS. Same wit Watson, Sproles and some of our RBs (think: Luepke). Get the fuck out of their way and let them make plays, mismatch or not.

[Jim Puetz]

Spot fucking on! Play smashmouth football and let players make plays.

[StL Bison Fan]

I was pretty mad about clock management at the end of the game. No urgency at all.
But on the positive side, it was perhaps one of the most enjoyable tailgates we have had. The weather was absolutely beautiful. So much food it was unbelievable and good visits with lots of friends. As disappointing as it was, it really was what sports should be. A good time with fellow fans.

[oldmantutters]

Way to much analytics and attempts at mismatches being used. Way too much. I get motioning to adjust strength, etc., but we don’t really need to create mismatches, as we have them comparatively before we even line up. Just make it simple and let players make plays.

My HS football coach was asked by media (after little Mahnomen put helmets on and kicked the crap out of higher division team Thief River Falls) if he ever worried about other teams knowing what we were going to do. His response: “I just wanna make damn sure my players know what they are doing”.

I’m not suggesting we run QB power all the time ... what I am suggesting is allow your players to make plays. Do we really need to create mismatches for our TEs? They already exist at the LOS. Same wit Watson, Sproles and some of our RBs (think: Luepke). Get the fuck out of their way and let them make plays, mismatch or not.I was talking with my brother-in-law and a question dawned on me. How many 6'5" guys could we put on the field at one time in the RedZone? 4? 5? That right there is a matchup nightmare. But why would we do something like that?

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[IndyBison]

Found that old LeCompte play... don't ask my why I remember stuff like this 8 years later cuz I don't know why: https://youtu.be/91ez76W_v7M?t=3618

Looks like in that case the rushers were moreso going for the tackle than the blocked kick so I guess that would explain the no call.That is a very good example of contact that appears to be attempting to tackle a runner. When they get there it's not clear if he's going to kick it out get tackled before he can kick. Amazing play by him to get the kick off.

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[scottietohottie]

Was Jasir Cox playing? Don't seem to remember him in the starting lineup.

[tjbison]

Was Jasir Cox playing? Don't seem to remember him in the starting lineup.

Yes he was

[Bisonator98]

Way to much analytics and attempts at mismatches being used. Way too much. I get motioning to adjust strength, etc., but we don’t really need to create mismatches, as we have them comparatively before we even line up. Just make it simple and let players make plays.

My HS football coach was asked by media (after little Mahnomen put helmets on and kicked the crap out of higher division team Thief River Falls) if he ever worried about other teams knowing what we were going to do. His response: “I just wanna make damn sure my players know what they are doing”.

I’m not suggesting we run QB power all the time ... what I am suggesting is allow your players to make plays. Do we really need to create mismatches for our TEs? They already exist at the LOS. Same wit Watson, Sproles and some of our RBs (think: Luepke). Get the fuck out of their way and let them make plays, mismatch or not.

Been saying this for awhile now. We never used to care if other teams knew what we were going to do because we just did it well. Now we really aren't doing anything well because it seems like we are trying to do too much. Get back to the basics and do what we do and do it well!

[Professor Chaos]

Bumping this thread just because it makes me :)

The type of shit SDSU drew up for this game is the type of shit NDSU draws up for the natty only... probably explains why both teams have done what they've done in the last 10 years or so.

[TAILG8R]

Bumping this thread just because it makes me :)

The type of shit SDSU drew up for this game is the type of shit NDSU draws up for the natty only... probably explains why both teams have done what they've done in the last 10 years or so.That is because NDSU is SDSU's championship.

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