Bison Support Growing?

[SDbison]

Things are sure quiet on the message board lately. Makes me wonder if there is any way to measure if interest in Bison sports is growing. Here are some areas to look at, but results are sometimes vague:
1. Amount of coverage in radio / TV / newspapers
2. Number of people who actually buy the premium bison zone.
3. Average daily posts or different people on this board
4. Average attendance at football or basketball games
5. Annual revenue from sale of NDSU apparel
6. Number of teammakers and annual contributions
7. References to NDSU in regional / national media
I hope improvments are contiinually being made. Seems like more could be done to promote NDSU athletics. Does anybody remember the free big mac promotion if the Bison men scored over 100 points. Back in the early eighties the BSA would be packed in anticipation of a flurry of points by the run and gun Inniger coached teams featuring Driscoll, Berwald, Askew, etc. This year football was hyped for the Valparaiso game but interest fell flat after the first game. Where is the growth in attendance that would parallel the growth of NDSU and the FM area? Any other omments? I hope it doesn't take 11-0 seasons to fill the dome. 800-900 for mens basketball? Even with so-so competition there shoud be 2000-3000. Where are the Bison faithful? Where are the students?

[bisondad]

I'm not sure of the numbers, but I thought the attendance for football games last season was better than the season before. I think with the tailgating, more fun also, which in turn will bring more fans. There are plenty of Gopher football games with not much more than 18,000 people. As far as men's basketball goes, I think that is going to be a tough nut to crack, but I wish them all the luck in the world. As far as sales of NDSU apparel, my wife alone keeps the Varsity Mart afloat. They know her by name when she calls in.....

Bisondad

[Big_BisonFan]

My girlfriend used to work at Varsity Mart, and when we were back for Homecoming, I remember one of the ladies she worked with told her sales of apparel at the V-Mart were up significantly last fall. I would attribute a lot of that to the Valpo marketing efforts.

As far as TV goes, I may be wrong, but I believe there is more TV coverage of the Bison this year. *3 football games were televised (if you count UC-Davis). Plus the airtime on local TV stations when our teams play in new markets. Heck not that wrestling is a major college sport,but it had to raise a few eyebrows on the Atlantic Coast when the Bison beat some bigtime colleges.

As much as most us don't care for McFeely, the Forum has been a huge supporter and contributor to the media increase for the Bison.

Give it a few years, and there will be noticeable positive differences in all of the categories listed by SDbison. We are just getting a small taste of what D-I/AA exposure is going to bring to NDSU, Fargo, and the State.

[Gamehunter]

Well, I think there should be a significantly larger push by NDSU in the forecomming years for the athletics. More advertising, etc. Our football advertising should parallel or surpase what UND is putting into their Hockey.

BTW, I was at that sports store in the mall that sells hats and jerseys (forget the name), WOW, all i saw was sue apparell. WTF is up with that? I walked through the entire store and could only see 1 bison hat. And it was probably the plainest cheapest hat I have ever seen.

Sure would be nice to have support from your local venders. ::) Scheels has a decent section of NDSU apparell.

How about opening a smaller version of the varsity mark in the West Acres?

[TheBisonator]

Were you at Sports City at West Acres, by chance??

I've been boycotting that store ever since one of their idiot workers gave me some smarmy response as to why they sell lots of sue crap, and no Bison stuff.

The College Shop at the Mall of America is a big offender in this as well. Row after row on the top of sue hockey jerseys, and a little tiny corner tucked away with a couple Bison jackets and a mini Bison helmet.

And it's really good that Scheels sells tons of Bison merchandise (even though they have just as much sue merch).

[MNBisonFan]

I think the Scheels stores in the FM area suck for NDSU apparel. Go into any of them and see the very little apparel they have with NDSU on it. Scheels also needs to be boycotted.

[TheBisonator]

I don't know. I went to the Scheels at West Acres, and they had a whole large section of Bison stuff, and another large section of sue stuff. There were LOTS of different kinds of merch in the Bison section. I think Scheels is OK, even though they present just as much sue merchandise.

I hope that once that new 200,000-square foot Scheels flagship store opens (the one with the Starbucks, the fudge shop, the day-care centre and the ferris wheel), they'll have a gigantic portion of the store that'll sell nothing but Bison stuff. Hopefully.

[Herd_Mentality]

The Bison Merch section in GF pales in comparison to the Sioux merch section in Fargo. However, you can get super deals on Bison merch in the GF scheels.

[mikelsch]

Hardly anyone from Fargo, or Bison fans for that matter, live in GF. On the other hand, Fargo is infested with Sioux fans. Can't blame them for picking Fargo over GF.

[IowaBison]

I think we should avoid the conspiracy theories,

could it just be supply and demand?

[Bison_Dan]

There's no jobs in gf! Where else would they go.

[IowaBison]

I meant with regards to the athletic apparel

[SDbison]

Didn't notice last year, but did varsity mart set up a booth to sell apparel in the tailgate areas. I suppose the dome would frown on that since there are apparel shops inside the dome.
No one has answered my question: Why, given the growth of the university and the metro area, has regular attendance not steadily grown over the years. It is not like the Bison have not fielded competitive teams that were often in contention for conference or national titles (mens basketball less often).
Are the fans spoiled from the success of 1980's football and early 1990's women's basketball?
I don't believe NDSU can't figure out a way to sell out more games. If teammaker and academic fundraisers can meet lofty million dollar plus goals than a campaign to sell out the dome or BSA should be possible.

[IowaBison]

the apparel folks in the dome are varsity mart too!

[pwbnd]

Why doesn't the Varsity Mart rent one of those little stands in the mall hallways to sell stuff off of?

Merchandise needs to be available at conveinent locations. If I live in south Fargo(which, unfortunately I don't anymore) and want to buy a sweatshirt from the Varsity Mart I have to drive up to campus, pay to park, and go to the Union. Not extremely difficult, but not as easy as picking one up at the mall since I'm already there for something else.

Renting one of those stands in the mall can't cost that much, plus you only need to pay 1 person to stand there.

Anybody know how much those things cost to rent for a month? If a lady selling tupperware bowls can afford one at Christmas time, surely NDSU can afford to staff one during the football season.

They should put one up in the malls in Bismarck and Minot too. Those folks don't even have a Varsity Mart in town.

[Gamehunter]

Were you at Sports City at West Acres, by chance??

I've been boycotting that store ever since one of their idiot workers gave me some smarmy response as to why they sell lots of sue crap, and no Bison stuff.

The College Shop at the Mall of America is a big offender in this as well. Row after row on the top of sue hockey jerseys, and a little tiny corner tucked away with a couple Bison jackets and a mini Bison helmet.

And it's really good that Scheels sells tons of Bison merchandise (even though they have just as much sue merch).


yes, yes, that is the place. :( I have never bought anything from that store and never will. I can't even imagine what could be going through their heads to do something like that. I'm not going to knock them for selling sue apparell, but the fact that they are anti-bison or something? makes me wonder if they have a little kuppy in them. They obviously loose a good market there, and for those hard-core fans like us, they loose all of our business completely.

I still think the best idea to promote NDSU athletics is to go ahead and put of a stand or even a small store in the mall. I dunno how much a downscale varsity mark would cost, but I could see it easily turning a profit, and doing wonders for NDSU as everyone walking through would see it. As it is right now, the only place I have found decent bison gear is at the V. Mart....I think the general public needs a store of their own too.

[Bisondad]

I would agree. The weekend our whole family came up to visit when my son was being recruited, we went to that store at West Acres. Couldn't find much NDSU stuff. It did seem odd that they didn't carry much NDSU apparel in the same city that he was being recruited. We ended up buying much gear online, and now we go to V Mart when we are up for games. To recruits and their families, it would be good and look much better to have apparel at the Mall.

Bisondad

[tophatfan]

Speaking of buying gear in the FM area. This town reall seems to be anti-NDSU. Need i mention the vote on the hockey/baskeyball arena connected to the dome. When in reality they should embrace having the best university in the region. I know that the scheels stores have really improved their offerings of SU gear, but it is still understocked.

[KTF]

When I moved from Fargo a year ago, it seemed to me that the vast majority of the people were more excited about the sioux then the Bison. At the time I felt that UND did a better job promoting their sports with the cable channel. I had co-workers that were SU grads that felt that NDSU was getting away from its roots and should pull the reigns back. Another co-worker hated the Bison just from a few so call "bad decisions" by Rocky Hager.

NDSU spoiled the f-m area with all of it's success in the 80's and 90's. It is hard to out do yourself, especially when you are always a top contender and success seemed a norm more then a "good year". I think the uprise of the whole UND bandwagon stems from the fact that they are doing ok with their programs. When NDSU football declined in the 90's and UND became better than .500, people took notice.

I say in 3 years if the football team can make noise in the tournaments, NDSU will see different support.

[JBB]

In 2003 attendance was about 11,550.

NDSU has won 4 national attendance crowns 1987: 14,120, 1989: 16,833 1997: 12,512 2000: 12,723

Our biggest year ever was 1989 with 16,833. As you know they would win the National title in 1990 which was really the end of an incredible run of great football teams.

It obvious, historically attendance is down, but recovering from the 2002 season. If Im not mistaken werent we about 12,500 or so this year? That would be the second year in a row our average attendance increased by more than 1,000. I think the trend is very favorable.

I think BB will start recovering next yr. Its clear to me that the level of competition is important and so is winning. I think for the women this season is showing the 2 off-setting. We will see when SDSU comes to town.

[DIBISON]

I'll answer the topic question as yes, Bison support will grow year by year. Each new year in DI is only going to fuel the support for Bison athletics. I remember the following statement made by Erv Inninger last summer when I was visiting with him: " The first two years of the transition period are going to be tough, but then watch out, Bison athletics and support will take off.

Hey, this if the first year, our schedules aren't all DI and our athletes aren't all DI. But year by year its going to get better and better. So will the support and fan base of the Bison!

[TheBisonator]

We averaged 13,269 in football last year. It was a pretty good attendance increase from 2003, about 1,700.

[roadwarrior]

Dont anyone dare bring up those inflated attendance figures from the 80's at Dacotah Field ::)

[TheBisonator]

Dont anyone dare bring up those inflated attendance figures from the 80's at Dacotah Field ::)

As far as I'm concerned, NDSU football attendance figures from before 1993 are non-existent. ;D ;D ;D

[JBB]

2 of our top attendance yrs, 1987 and 1989 were during those times. Its a matter of record, and of course contention.

The point that attendance is on an upward trend line is solid. If we have another 10%+ increase this season we are only 3 or 4 yrs away from facing a new stadium decision. As attendance approaches an average of 17,000 its going to become obvious to more folks that we are going to have to go outside with about 25,000 seats and room to expand.

This will sooner rather than later force another decision on moving football to DI-A. I believe for the most part these decision are market driven. If you have DI-A numbers your going to want DI-A paydays. Time will tell, Im optomistic that Fargos emergance and growth will be reflected through NDSU and the merging of West Fargo and Horace, but thats another discussion!
:D

[bisononce]

Save the footprint of Dacotah Field for the outdoor stadium and inclusion in a mega complex, to include BSA and BSA expansions... THAT is a great location.

[TheBisonator]

Unfortunately, they recently destroyed the footprint of Dacotah Field this past fall. I saw the demolition crews working on it. I think they were removing all the old concession stands and restrooms, and they had to remove the footprint in the process.

[JBB]

So what your saying is Dacotah Field isnt there anymore?

Well, when we open the new one we will once again be back on Dacotah Field. *I think the entire Fargo Dome experience would be different if we would have continued to call the stadium Dacotah Field under the Fabulous Fargo Dome. *I suppose the city council objected? ;)

I want the BISON to play on Dacotah Field! I dont care where it is, right now its under the Fabulous Fargo Dome, and thats fine, but they should start saying immediately, Dacotah Field Under the Fabulous Fargo Dome. I mean it! 8)

[roadwarrior]

The turf, goalposts (barely), scoreboard and north stands are still standing at Dacotah Field.

If you ever thought that we had 19000 fans at a game at Dacotah Field, do the following: walk out and look at the north stands and compare the size to the east side of the Fargodome. Not even close. Then check the east side of Dacotah, oops, no seating. Compare that to about 3000 seats in the south end zone of the Fargodome. Then turn south and picture in your mind (or walk over to the soccer field) and try to figure if the old south stands at Dacotah are as big as the west side of the Fargodome. Maybe a tossup when we really packed in the student section at Dacotah. Then there were the rickety metal bleachers in the west end zone, that maybe held 1000 at the most. Compare to north end zone of the Fargodome which has nearly 3000 seats. Now lets do the math: football capacity at the Fargodome 18,700. Now how can there ever have been 19000 at a game at Dacotah ???

My guess is that 13000 was the largest crowd.

[SDbison]

Here are the attendance numbers for the past 30 years. From 1975 to 1989 average attendance steadily grew from just over 5000 to just over 15,000 per game. From 1990 to present, attendance fluctuated between 10,000 and 14,000. During the last 15 years FM metro population has probably increased by 30,000 and NDSU's enrollment has gone up by about 3,000. Obviously NDSU's improvement on the field had a lot to do with the continuous increase from 1975 to 1989. Seems like a competitive NDSU footballl team should now be averaging between 15 and 16 thousand just based on the growth of the area. So what is the problem.....apathy, controversy, mediocrity? I just hope this is a temporary plateau and NDSU is now ready to ramp up and regularly fill the dome. I think a push to sell more season tickets and market every game like Valparaiso would accomplish this goal.
1975 5,810
1976 6,242
1977 7,683
1978 7,563
1979 6,958
1980 6,960
1981 8,380
1982 9,530
1983 10,033
1984 12,235
1985 12,960
1986 12,253
1987 14,120
1988 13,038
1989 15,629
1990 9,962
1991 10,726
1993 10,893
1994 14,106
1995 11,855
1996 14,762
1997 12,512
1998 11,589
1999 11,410
2000 12,723
2001 12,115
2002 10,620
2003 11,550
2004 13,269

[Bisonguy]

This year's numbers are lower in comparison, as they were an actual turnstile count, as opposed to the tickets sold or guesstimates performed in previous years.

[SDbison]

The media guide says an addition to dacotah field in 1987 increased capacity to 15,500. Even if that was off by 1000, and most games were at or near capacity in the late 1980's, that would put attendance in the 14,000 per game area for sure. So during the past 15 years the Bison have been unable to match that average even with the improved cozy confines of the Fargodome. What is the problem? Where is the local support of an area the that has grown 25% over the past 15 years? I drive 250 miles one way to go to all the Bison home football games. The lakes crowd can't drive 50 miles to support their team. Makes me wonder if there is an anti-NDSU contigent that is thriving (i.e. a store in West Acres that sells Sue wear but little or no NDSU stuff). What is up with that.

[JBB]

There is no problem. *14,000 or so was the culmination of 30 yrs of DII success, unparalleled in the history of the division. *From that we learned how many we could expect if the BISON stayed in DII and got back into NC form. *

We dont know yet how much support we are going to get in DI-AA but you have to think on average it will be greater than a DII team. *Its already, after only one season, just about at 14,000. *If we build the average crowd by only 3 thousand or so we will be close to capacity.

We increased attendance by about 1,700/game last year by a thousand the yr before. *Do that 2 more times and we are getting a new stadium.

Since 2002, the low point in modern BISON Lore, attendance is up 25%, not bad.

[RABBIT]

JBB, give it a break, your attendance isn't going up to get a new stadium for the next 50 years. Your attendance is going to be down next year without a sellout like valpo at the beginning. Oh wait 18000 to see mankato, that sounds about right. ::).

Also, shut up about going to D-IA, its not going to happen for a long, long time. You have a 1 million deficit this year that you don't know how to pay, and you want to add on to it.

[JBB]

How do you know what attendance will be? *Your game will sell out, replacing the Valpo gate. *Our attendance could easily get us to 14,500/game next year.

When NDSU builds a new stadium, say 2012 it will be large enough to play DI-A ball.

[roadwarrior]

SDBison, do you see the obvious from your record of attendance? 1990 was when they sh** canned the overstating of the crowds. There is no way that in 1990, when we won a national championship and went 14-0, attendance dropped 37% from the level in 1989.

I have attended EVERY home game listed in your attendance chart. There were lots of late season games when it was cold when the place wasnt even half full. The game against Augustana in 1986 (in a blizzard) was probably played in front of less than 1000 fans.

The BIG games did pack the place as did night games early in the season. Weather was a HUGE factor in how many fans were at Dakotah Field!

My point is that since moving to the Fargodome, there has been on average more people at the games than there was before. I dont think you can pull the census figures and automatically assume that some percentage of the population are going to be at Bison games.

[roadwarrior]

And i have to agree with RABBIT, that we will not see a new stadium for more than 30 years in the future. *There is one simple reason for that:

$

Just because we may sellout more games in the future than we have in the past isnt going to mean that a bigger stadium will be built. *That is just plain crazy.

[JBB]

you are exactly right roadwarrior. Ive been to most of those games including the 86 Augi playoff. The Fargo Dome has a true honest increase in attendace probably because it allowed an older demographic to come to the games. Old Dacotah Field was brutal and empty most late season games. The opener was always a big draw. From 1991 on the figures are honest, prior to that who knows?

[JBB]

I think a stadium will happen. *I agree its easy to see why it wouldnt but if I were a planner I would have it in the 10 yr forcast for sure. *Rabbit is a sceptic and he already has it on his 30 yr radar. * :)

[roadwarrior]

A new basketball arena needs to come way before a new football stadium.

[roadwarrior]

Playoff games at Dacotah Field:

1976 Montana State 6,100
1977 Northern Michigan 2,200
1982 Virginia Union 4,300
1983 Towson State 5,600
1984 UC Davis 13,758
1984 Omaha 11,090
1986 Ashland 12,092
1986 Central State OH 12,380
1988 Augustana 7,500
1988 Millersville 10,200
1988 Sacramento 13,200
1989 Edinboro 8,400
1990 Northern Colorado 7,103
1990 Cal Poly 8,253
1990 Pitt State 9,086
1991 Mankato 4,839
1992 Northeast Missouri 6,230

Hmmmmm, I dont see a single game over 14,000. I wonder if it was because the NCAA got the gate receipts ;D and required a proper accounting of them? A whopping average of 8,372 fans per playoff game.

The largest crowd of the bunch was the 1984 game against UC-Davis on a very warm (50+) sunny day in late november. The stadium was definitely full for that one!

[Siouxpreme]

yes, yes, that is the place. * :( *I have never bought anything from that store and never will. *I can't even imagine what could be going through their heads to do something like that. *I'm not going to knock them for selling sue apparell, but the fact that they are anti-bison or something? makes me wonder if they have a little kuppy in them. *They obviously loose a good market there, and for those hard-core fans like us, they loose all of our business completely.

I still think the best idea to promote NDSU athletics is to go ahead and put of a stand or even a small store in the mall. *I dunno how much a downscale varsity mark would cost, but I could see it easily turning a profit, and doing wonders for NDSU as everyone walking through would see it. *As it is right now, the only place I have found decent bison gear is at the V. Mart....I think the general public needs a store of their own too.

This is not intended as smack, but you guys will probably take it as such.

Your colors and logo are much less marketable than UND's. *Why? *First, how many Bison or Buffalo nicknames are there in college sports? *A bunch. *Bison is not unique. *The Fighting Sioux, just like the Seminoles or Fighting Irish are unique and people like that. *Second: *your logo is lame. *Third, and probably most important: *your green and yellow colors make you look like Green Bay Packer fans, at least from a distance. *Since most fans in Minnesota or ND are Vikings fans, that's the last thing they want to resemble and they wouldn't purchase NDSU stuff unless they are hard corefans. *Fourth, you don't sell hockey jerseys, which are huge money makers for UND, especially with the new Sioux logo. *This poll on USCHO says UND has the best logo, by far: *http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=34544. *UND, a "DII school" usually ranks in the top 50 of all US schools in royalties after the new logo began use in 2001, so it's certainly very marketable.

So if you really want to catch up in merchandising, get a new mascot, get new colors (maybe purple and gold!), and start hockey. *Something tells me none of those will happen. * ;)

Your best hope is to have the Vikings move to San Antonio or LA so everyone is converted to a Packers fan. *

[BISON_PRIDE]

I think it has been getting better, but a lot of the older stuff that is available is still pretty drab looking. There are a lot of nice things out there if someone is willing to look, and pay over $50. I don't think we should sell out to the "let's make everything black!" marketing plan. If black isn't an official school, or athletic color, than you shouldn't use it.

[kchats]

Maybe we should change to an American Indian name to offend the Native Americans. I don't think so.

The strength of the Bison is the herd and the strength of the herd is the Bison.

I have to disagree with you. NDSU's colors and mascot are far better than UND's. Kelly green, white and pink are not the better colors. UND even went so far to add black as one of their uniform options to increase sales. NDSU is true to their origins with the forest green and sunflower yellow. The Bison is also a great mascot.

I live in southwest Missouri and I proudly wear my NDSU jacket,sweatshirts and T-shirts. I also receive a large amount of interest while wearing it. It gives me a great opportunity to discuss NDSU with people that might not have been aware of our great university and North Dakota in general. Many or the people are confused and say don't you have a hockey team too. People know there is a hockey team in North Dakota but that is about it. I was happy that NDSU decided not to change any colors when they modified the logo. It is an easy thing to do to add black to the uniforms to increase sales but if that is the only reason it is added it isn't right.

NDSU's apparel sales will increase as their exposure in division I increases. When I first moved to the Kansas City area upon graduating, many of my coworkers found it hard to believe that I wasn't following the University of Kansas or Kansas State University athletics instead of NDSU. They said NDSU is only division II which isn't worth following and nobody cares about it. The surprising thing is that quite a few of these fans were SDSU graduates. I proudly followed and continue to follow NDSU. I am a Team Maker and will continue to be.

Hail The Bison!

[NDSUstudent]

Siouxpreme- I'm a vikings fan and I proudly wear the green and the gold, and most people in the region know that geen and gold also stands for the Bison so I don't see the problem. Why would NDSU try to sell hockey jerseys if theres's no hockey team? And for the huge amount of money hockey makes, it loses a lot in expenses. Especially womens hockey, the last thing NDSU needs is too add another minor sport that will be a money drain from the bottom line. Also the NDSU logo isn't lame. For one thing it offends no one, and bison are one of this region's most historic and symbolic animals. Why wouldn't NDSU want that for their logo.

[JBB]

If und does sell more mechandise I think its a good sign. *No doubt a DI team, even a DII exhibition team playing trophy only, has a lot more media exposure than a DII team. Thats one of the reasons we moved up. *Imagine with all of our sports DI. *I think the merchandise gap is about over.

[Gamehunter]

This is not intended as smack, but you guys will probably take it as such.

Your colors and logo are much less marketable than UND's. *Why? *First, how many Bison or Buffalo nicknames are there in college sports? *A bunch. *Bison is not unique. *The Fighting Sioux, just like the Seminoles or Fighting Irish are unique and people like that. *Second: *your logo is lame. *Third, and probably most important: *your green and yellow colors make you look like Green Bay Packer fans, at least from a distance. *Since most fans in Minnesota or ND are Vikings fans, that's the last thing they want to resemble and they wouldn't purchase NDSU stuff unless they are hard corefans. *Fourth, you don't sell hockey jerseys, which are huge money makers for UND, especially with the new Sioux logo. *This poll on USCHO says UND has the best logo, by far: *http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=34544. *UND, a "DII school" usually ranks in the top 50 of all US schools in royalties after the new logo began use in 2001, so it's certainly very marketable.

So if you really want to catch up in merchandising, get a new mascot, get new colors (maybe purple and gold!), and start hockey. *Something tells me none of those will happen. * ;)

Your best hope is to have the Vikings move to San Antonio or LA so everyone is converted to a Packers fan. *



and start hockey.....so THAT is were all the money is, Hockey. The next time you find a 60K seat hockey arena point it out to me, and I'll show you 10 football stadiums of greater size for each of those Hockey arenas. Give me a break ::)

RABBIT, your dead wrong about the attendance thing. I see two huge draws for next year. Your game and UC Davis, back to back. Davis is on a multi-year payback period, and is also widely known locally. And although I wouldn't expect a sellout for the Mankato game, I bet that one isn't to bad either.
NDSU's enrollement has set record numbers every single year since Chapman became president. This year's numbers are up ~1000 over last. If that trend continues, it will certainly add to the necessity for new facilities. The only problem I see is that we will need these new facilities long before they get here. I can see routine sellouts at the dome in 5 years with D1-AA playoffs right around the corner, a new stadium is 15+ away. And like stated before, basketball is in much greater need for facilities.

[Till]

Actually they do have hockey jerseys for the Bison club team. And I gotta tell you, they look pretty sweet from what I saw of them at their little stand in the union.

[JBB]

I think NDSU will get a new stadium facility with in the 15 yr period mentioned, but it will be sooner rather than later. Its possible the process could start within 5yrs. Incorporating a new BB facility attached to the stadium would certainly help with the idea. It makes sense too because of the ability to use the same infrastructure. I hope the club hockey team likes the Fargo Dome. Thats probably where they will play when they move into division 1.

[roadwarrior]

It is nice to see some people can live inside their own little dream world.

[JBB]

The longest we will wait is 30 yrs. but thats unlikely. *It could happen much quicker say 10 - 14 yrs. *Heres why I believe that.

According to NDSU Media Guide info:

Starting with a brand new stadium in 1938 here is a stadium history with capacity:

1938-7,000 *New stadium
1952-9.500 *New Stadium
1972-15,000 *Remodel
1987-15,500 *Remodel
1993-18,700 *New Stadium

NDSU has had a stadium change, either new or remodel on average every 14 yrs since 1938. *Three times during that period new stadiums were constructed. *Thats an average interval of 27 yrs for new stadiums, the actual intervals were 14 yrs and 41 yrs, but during the 41 yr interval one major overhaul was done after 20 yrs. *

We are 11 yrs into the Fargo Dome. *Obviously a new stadium wont be built in 3 yrs to match the 14 yr cycle, but 30 more yrs remain in the 41 yr cycle. *There are only 16 yrs left in the average cycle, which is propably a better guide because of the explosive growth of NDSU, the gen population and the wealth in the Fargo Metro.

Besides the fact the Fargo Dome cant be altered, another reason the cycle is probably on the low end of the time intervals is the need for a BB arena. *Also think of the athletic dept. needs including office space, locker rooms, practice and training facilities and a new stadium might not seem so far fetched.

[roadwarrior]

I think the interval might be more like 60 years this time. I'm still waiting for someone to give me one source of money to build a new stadium.

[BisonFan]

I think the interval might be more like 60 years this time. *I'm still waiting for someone to give me one source of money to build a new stadium.

Its because there is no source for these statements. Some people like to dream big. They just don't need to talk big so much! If it ever gets to the point the Fargo Dome is sold out for all games and for which the majority of those in attendance stay at the game beyond the beginning of the third quarter, then talk of a new stadium might be warranted. Until then, DREAM ON!

[JBB]

Look to the Dome Authority, NDSU and boosters to put up the cash.

Golf courses are largely planned on a population to hole ratio. *When this ratio grows, 16,000/hole is a good guide, new holes are likely to be added. *Stadiums have a population to seat ratio. * Heres how the population to seat ratio has fluctuated at the time of new stadiums/major remodel:

1938 ?
1952 - 4.75
1972 - 5.3
1993 - 8.2
2004 - 9.9

You can see that the people available/seat is increasing. *Its dramatic when compared to earlier days. *The key of course is getting people in. *I dont think it could happen in DII, but potential demand is unprecedented. *Moving to DI-AA is going to put a better game on the field. *Add winning to the equation and you have the engine to convert demand to dollars. *When this happens the ratio will be brought back down. *5.5 people/seat give you a 33,000 seat stadium.

[Gamehunter]

How do other colleges pay for their stadiums?....and why is Fargo automatically different than other 130k+ metro areas? I am not going to argrue with people over a new stadium because as of right now, yeh, it is a pipe dream, and hasn't even been considered publicly that I know of. I am willing to bet this new stadium will NOT come as long as we are in D1-aa. I think it will take a couple years of sellouts before people are even convinced of the necessity. A move to D1-a in 15 years say will spark enough interest for something new. I really don't think we will see huge attendance numbers untill we are D1A. People consider that a step down from pro, and on a local scale, would treat it very similarily if we could draw the big names.

Anybody know any particulars on the new UC Davis stadium? Capacity, Cost? I saw a picture of it, and it isn't that big, but looks like it will be nice.

[roadwarrior]

From what I have read, the new UC-Davis stadium will seat 10,000 initially. With plans to expand that to 30,000 somewhere down the road. I believe most of the money from the stadium is coming from student fees, but I might be wrong. Davis has an enrollment approaching 30,000.

[roadwarrior]

In three years the funnel of sales tax money to the Dome Authority will end. At that point all of the bonds sold to finance the building will be paid off. Dont look for the Dome Authority to assist in losing six of the biggest dates of the year for the building ::)

Dont look for NDSU to build the stadium either. Unless things change in Bismarck and they start paying for capital improvements. The State of ND does not even fund classroom buildings any longer.

That leaves us rich Bison fans to foot the bill for the new stadium. JBB, hope you are buying those Powerball tickets, and if you win, will sign over all the money for the new stadium. That is our best hope.

[SDbison]

Much as it was fun to focus in on the new stadium concept I started this thread to get some discussion on the real avid Bison fan growth. The kind who tailgate, travel a long way to home or away games, bring others to a game, buy Bison apparel, post or read messages on this website and get up, yell, cheer and clap at a game regardless of how the team is doing. I wish there was more I could do other than just become a higher level teammaker (at this point it is not possible). Some things I would like to see:
- A campaign to sell more season tickets
- Goals / strategies to increase teammaker membership
- University support to have free internet access to listen to games (why should avid fans outside the area have to pay to listen to a game. I already shell out big bucks traveling to 7-10 games each year).
- Ability to watch coaches shows on Internet at no cost
- More media coverage by regional TV other than WDAY
- DI level marketing of NDSU sports
- A new basketball arena
- A push to succeed at DI-AA football so a move to DI-A can be made as soon as possible.
- An update to the latest news section on this website (I think the last article is from mid football season) Also post next seasons schedule even if it is incomplete
- Get some new commentary over at the Bison Insider (that site has been idle for the past 3 months)
- Bring more youth into the dome........selling more seats to the living dead is great for revenue but it does nothing to improve crowd noise at the dome.
- Increase the size of the marching band, mostly in the drum section.

[JBB]

I was kind of hoping Liener would come forward roadwarrior! :D He was with me when Coach Bohl indicated a move to DI-A football isnt as far fetched as most people seem to think.

Here is the situation in 2020:

1) Moorhead State Dragons open their first reg. season football game in the Fargo Dome. They converted their football complex into a new science/research building and dorms.

2) NDSU announces DI Hockey will be played at 2 different venues. The main venue is the FFD. they will also play some of their games in a smaller downtown arena built as part of condo high rise project.

3) NDSU BISON will play University of Montana in the first game at the new outdoor football all sports facility built by the Dome Authority after extending the tax, pledges and donations from boosters and an increase in student fees. The location will be directly west of Newman Field.

4) BISON fans boycott the game because they want all football played inside!

[99Bison]

You have to think that the marketing push for the D1 sports by NDSU will come in the next years as teams become eligable for playoff's, etc. This year would be risky in that it is the transition year for most everything. I expect most everything to move onward and upward as the years go by. It isn't going to happen with a flick of a switch, just growth.

Has anyone seen a private business "media machine" somewhere actually work to promote a university and it's athletics as well as be a viable business? If so, sounds like it would be extremely fun to me.

[bisononce]

Posts refer to dramatic reduction in attendance during old days at Dakotah, later in season and/ or on bad weather days. Now, we discuss a return to outdoor football? :o

[99Bison]

Understood, and agreed. It would have to be the new breed of insane, don't care how cold it is set of fans... Are there enough of those to replace the others, not now, perhaps these new fans will be coming in droves? Seems unlikely to me until Fargo is 500k.

... With 100k of those alumni staying in town upon graduation. Really look at any D1 location, the majority of attending fans are alumni, usually under 50, and participate in cheers as if they are holding onto the past school days.

[JBB]

Its fun thinking about what might happen. Obviously nobody, least of all me, has a clear idea, but the fact that the Fargo Dome cant be altered looms if attendance grows. Its going to be tough to build another dome. They are just too expensive.

If it does move back outside the older demographic, that seems to keep a lid on dome enthusiasm now, will have to be served with TV, especially later in the season.

I think support for the BISON is growing. I think everything associated with BISON athletics is going to grow. I dont think they are going to give away much for free including internet content. It costs somebody something, but things like Bison Zone could be included with Team Makers membership for a deep discount.

[bisononce]

"It's fun thinking about what might happen." How about about some outrageous planning... Think of a retractable dome:
-On the site of Dakotah Field, adjacent to a re-done BSA complex. With access to football offices, skyways to a parking ramp and a new Bison Hall of Fame.
-To be open on the early fall evenings and domed for late November games to sooth the "living dead."
-With fulltime, 24/ 7 usage to justify cost. Imagine a place for - all sports practices, band, ROTC, graduations and intramurals.
-On University Avenue, at an ideal signature location on campus.

Might not rapidly developing technology bring new materials and engineering to moderate cost of retractable dome arrangements?

[Gamehunter]

I doubt it, what JBB was saying is even the cost of another "Dome" is going to be to steap for the size we would be needing provided the F-Dome is too small. A stadium with a retractable roof would far exceed the cost of a permanant roof, and that is still to much unless a couple ralph Engelstad's show themselves. I LOVE the idea though!!!

How about an outdoor stadium, and then have the fargo dome to fall back on if the weather gets really nasty? I mean, it still holds 19000+ right? half decent....and wouldn't spoil a game for a blizzard.

[tony]

When you get off the plane at Hector, you know right away that you are in Bison country. Downtown and at the mall, you wouldn't have a clue. It would be cool to have some sort of Bison presence in hotel gift shops and at the mall. I know NDSU probably doesn't want to compete with the private sector but a Bison-only shop in West Acres would be very cool (if only in concept).

I think that if NDSU continues to excel in football, the FargoDome attendance will approach capacity. If so, I'd have no problem staying there for as long as it makes sense (even though I love outdoor football). *I'd love it if NDSU's big problem was having to turn people away.

I don't think basketball attendance will approach historic levels (the 5000+ of the early 1980s) until after NDSU finds a conference and/or gets a regular schedule.

Finding a conference and making a nice play for basketball are obviously the biggest priorities. *Other than that, the only off-the-wall idea I have is turning the architecture department loose on Putnam Hall and making it into the President's house. It's a beautiful building in some ways, just too small for much of anything else.

Edit: better lighting in the Dome for football game would be nice too.

[RABBIT]

I doubt it, what JBB was saying is even the cost of another "Dome" is going to be to steap for the size we would be needing provided the F-Dome is too small. A stadium with a retractable roof would far exceed the cost of a permanant roof, and that is still to much unless a couple ralph Engelstad's show themselves. I LOVE the idea though!!!

Are you sure you don't want a dome? The Minnesota vikings, (your new NFC rival after you pass DI-A football in 10-20 years) have a dome. You don't want to get shown up do you? LOL you guys are pathetic talking about spending a half-billion dollars (thats not an exageration) on a DI-AA football team.


I think support for the BISON is growing. I think everything associated with BISON athletics is going to grow. I dont think they are going to give away much for free including internet content. It costs somebody something, but things like Bison Zone could be included with Team Makers membership for a deep discount.

WTF? SDSU can afford to broadcast free internet of all of our games, but NDSU can't? Maybe there saving up for the new dome and move to DI-A, right JBB?

Before you guys talk about a retractable roof dome, and new outdoor stadium, a move to DI-A, maybe you should figure out what happened to that Million dollar deficit you had at the beginning of the year. Wait, I'm sure that doesn't matter, the bison are busy increasing their budget from 9 million to 60 million a year based on the population of fargo-morhead and increased attendance.::) Do you know how idiotic this thread is. Please don't tell me this is smack, this whole thread should be in the smack section, it doesn't look good for the education NDSU provides if you guys can't figure these things out.

[imported_admin]

Just a warning for anybody contemplating blasting RABBIT for his last post: keep it civil.

I don't want every thread hijacked by smack trolls.

Edit: actually, keeping it civil is too low a standard. Please keep it friendly.

[Bisonguy]

Edit: better lighting in the Dome for football game would be nice too.


Better lighting would be great and would help three ways: the student-athletes could see better, TV, newpapaper, and the NDSU SID media could produce much better video and photographs, and Bisonguy would no longer lust over the lenses The Forum guys have on their cameras at the games (approx. $4,500 used on Ebay :'( :'( :'()

[kchats]

JBB you are really dreaming. NDSU will be in division I-AA for quite a while unless the divisions get adjusted and they drop the AA. I'm sure there is another waiting period for bowl games when you make the move and we don't want to go through another one. I would love for NDSU to get to the level they were at in the 1980's in division I-AA, always playing for and winning the national championships.

I have not heard one peep from Montana about moving up to division I-A and they are wildly successful in division I-AA. They have a beautiful stadium that seats nearly 25,000 and they sell out all the time. They are also televised on statewide television every weekend in Montana.

NDSU needs to get to the point where the fans are there to watch NDSU and are not considered about the opponent. If fans were going to the games to watch NDSU the attendance would be consistent for all games and it wouldn't drop off for lesser opponents.

As for the dome I haven't attended a game in the facility. I moved away from Fargo after the 1990 season while they were constructing it. From everything I have heard about it it is a wonderful facility with great sightlines for every seat. 18,700 is quite a few fans if you really think about it. There are division I-A teams that don't attract that many to their games. As long as the Dome Authority does a good job keeping the maintenance up on the facility I expect the Bison will be playing in their for many many years to come. The only thing it might need is a new turf (the new kind) to make the playing surface easier on the players.

I would rather see NDSU and Fargo spend the money on transforming the BSA into a top notch basketball facility or building a new basketball facility.

Things are going well for the Bison. The teams have had a successful first year in division I, next seasons schedules should be better and conferences are talking about the possibility of adding us. Let's get the fund raising rolling and build strong programs before we make another jump.

Hail The Bison! Because the March is Still On! ;D

[Bisonguy]

I have not heard one peep from Montana about moving up to division I-A and they are wildly successful in division I-AA. *They have a beautiful stadium that seats nearly 25,000 and they sell out all the time. *They are also televised on statewide television every weekend in Montana.



You need to read the eGriz board more often. There's at least a monthly multi-page thread created about why the Griz should be in I-A, how the WAC is drooling to have Montana join, and that they are too big for I-AA. :-X

[NDSUstudent]

20-25 years down the road I could see the Bison moving into a stadium like this one UCONN just built. And at a price tag of 91.2 million, it isn't that expenisive. But what NDSU really needs to focus on the short term is a new BBall arena(not a renovated BSA) and they also need to get more football games on tv. And in the long term focus on a new football stadium. With a growing NDSU and Fargo you can't rule out a new football stadium down the road.

Here is the new stadium in UCONN(40,000 seats)

http://www.rentschlerfield.com/images/home_image.jpg

[kchats]

If that is the case we need to get to their level at division I-AA before we think about the other move.

Maybe that is why NDSU is looking at the Big Sky so hard. Maybe they figure if they can gain entrance in their conference we might be ready for the move when the Big Sky makes it if they do make it.

[SDbison]

Well I guess this thread kind of got sidetracked, but who said dreaming big is totally bad. I think we all need to be realistic and understand that to grow NDSU sports we all can help out no matter where we live or how much we post on this board. It is all about promoting the cause. Get people talking, going to the game, and cheering on the Bison. Convince someone who has rarely or ever gone to a game to go. Sell someone on the idea of buying season tickets or joining teammakers. I really think NDSU needs to make sure its games are available at no cost to Alumni throughout the country. Somewhere there is $2000 that can be paid to WDAY to offer Internet broadcasts for free.......it promotes the university! $2000 is probably double what WDAY is making on the Premium zone anyway. Also, if a new basketball arena is a big enough priority and enough people speak up it could happen. Actually my #1 wish is to see the Bison sellout the dome for nearly every game. That would mean Bison support has really grown.