Full impact of COA becoming apparent?

[Gully]

are we starting to see the full impact of COA? now even the top teams in the conference aren't hanging.

how many years has it been in place? we're seeing a younger / reloading Bison team just destroy good FCS teams.

Thoughts?

[El_Chapo]

we dont belong here. 117-8 ??? are you kidding???

[ByeSonBusiness]

we dont belong here. 117-8 ??? are you kidding???

Preach chapo

[Bisonator98]

I don't think FCOA has much to do with it. We just get better talent and develop it better then anyone at this level and probably better then all but about 20-25 FBS teams.

[NDSUstudent]

we dont belong here. 117-8 ??? are you kidding???

Chalupa...

http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/U1XhGr8CWqvVC/giphy.gif

[NDSU1980]

we dont belong here. 117-8 ??? are you kidding???

Well maybe we don't, but I'm against going back to D2.

[SoCalBison]

we dont belong here. 117-8 ??? are you kidding???

I thought it was 118-8? Or is that after next week?

[Gully]

I don't think FCOA has much to do with it. We just get better talent and develop it better then anyone at this level and probably better then all but about 20-25 FBS teams.

But isn't COA part of how we get better talent? Not everyone offers it.

[Bisonwinagn]

The MVFC is not very good this year also. Need to keep that in mind.

[tjamz]

we dont belong here. 117-8 ??? are you kidding???I agree with this, but I'm not sure what the better option is for us right now? MAC/MWC? Maybe... But not much better competition there. It's a catch 22 if you ask me.

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[Professorbum]

I agree with this, but I'm not sure what the better option is for us right now? MAC/MWC? Maybe... But not much better competition there. It's a catch 22 if you ask me.

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Step 1: apply for waiver to go independent in FBS football (receive waiver or sue); remain in Summit for other sports
Step 2: schedule all the other independents looking for opponents (they amount to practically a conference already)
Step 3: build FBS resume kicking everyone's ass
Step 4: tell MWC to pound sand when they finally invite; accept B12 invite instead

[HerdBot]

We were great before FCOA but it certainly doesnt hurt the cause. We probably pick up a handful of players because of it.

[HerdBot]

We have so many advantages. Tradition and winning,
national exposure, NFL QBs , a system that has remained in tact for 15 years, a unique style, a great home field, elite facilities, great atmosphere, more practice time with extended playoff runs, etc. The Indoor Practice Facility will be one of the final pieces

[NDSU1980]

COA is a tool. One of many in our toolbox, and we use them all. Of course COA helps but it's not a cure all, and was never meant to be.

[SlickVic]

Step 1: apply for waiver to go independent in FBS football (receive waiver or sue); remain in Summit for other sports
Step 2: schedule all the other independents looking for opponents (they amount to practically a conference already)
Step 3: build FBS resume kicking everyone's ass
Step 4: tell MWC to pound sand when they finally invite; accept B12 invite instead

^ this----------fbs independent is the way to go...i went and watched thee ohio state buckeyes dismantle nebraska a few weeks ago and didnt feel like the pre-game or in-game atmosphere was in any way superior to fargo...i hadnt been to a "big-time" college football game since bohl and co really got the fargodome rocking so i was a bit shocked by this...add to that if we were able to expand the dome by even 10-15k wow and what if we could go the 1660 route and take the TV rights wouldnt that be big time bucks?

[Christopher Moen]

COA is a tool. One of many in our toolbox, and we use them all. Of course COA helps but it's not a cure all, and was never meant to be.

I agree. If COA was the sole reason, NDSU would be more dominant in their other sports too.


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[BisonNeil]

Step 4: accept B12 invite instead

You need to admit yourself into a recovery facility. Your opioid addiction can kill you. If that isn’t your problem, then explain why the Big 12 would invite an institution that does nothing to increase the revenue of their media network. Closed circuit to PB, they f’ing won’t.

[56BISON73]

You need to admit yourself into a recovery facility. Your opioid addiction can kill you. If that isn’t your problem, then explain why the Big 12 would invite an institution that does nothing to increase the revenue of their media network. Closed circuit to PB, they f’ing won’t.

Bingo
The Big 10 certainly didnt add Maryland and Rutgers because of the quality of their football teams.

[bisonforever]

STFU! It is what it is until it isn’t!

[WeAreThePride]

Step 1: apply for waiver to go independent in FBS football (receive waiver or sue); remain in Summit for other sports
Step 2: schedule all the other independents looking for opponents (they amount to practically a conference already)
Step 3: build FBS resume kicking everyone's ass
Step 4: tell MWC to pound sand when they finally invite; accept B12 invite instead
Notre Dame would be the only team worth playing among the FBS independents. And they wouldn’t schedule us. They don’t need to. They can take their pick from their traditional rivals, plus their guaranteed 5 ACC games per year. They already play USC and Stanford every year, they did a H&H with Georgia, they play Michigan and Michigan State often, they had a Texas H&H.

They don’t need us. Now you’re left playing UMass, Liberty, not exactly a step up in competition. Then to fill out the schedule we’d end up paying MVSU again to come take a beating, but it would cost even more.

[THEsocalledfan]

Step 1: apply for waiver to go independent in FBS football (receive waiver or sue); remain in Summit for other sports
Step 2: schedule all the other independents looking for opponents (they amount to practically a conference already)
Step 3: build FBS resume kicking everyone's ass
Step 4: tell MWC to pound sand when they finally invite; accept B12 invite instead

I hope folks did not take this seriously; it was clearly farce even if purple was not used. I had a great LOL moment when reading it.

[THEsocalledfan]

So, back to the topic at hand as I think gully had a great point.....

How many MVFC teams are doing FCOA? From past conversations, this is what I remember:

1. NDSU
2. SDSU on case by case basis
3. UND even though broke
4. USD

Fill in others, please or correct me.

[CyPanth]

I would be interested to see what you guys are like when you are battling close games most weeks and losing some of them. No way Mr. FBS Lakes would be nearly as arrogant without the Bison winning all the time.

[CyPanth]

I would be interested to see what you guys are like when you are battling close games most weeks and losing some of them. No way Mr. FBS Lakes would be nearly as arrogant without the Bison winning all the time.


Never mind, what am I saying? Lakes has a bottomless supply of arrogance!

[cbline]

Step 1: apply for waiver to go independent in FBS football (receive waiver or sue); remain in Summit for other sports
Step 2: schedule all the other independents looking for opponents (they amount to practically a conference already)
Step 3: build FBS resume kicking everyone's ass
Step 4: tell MWC to pound sand when they finally invite; accept B12 invite instead

Step 5: Chuck the pigskin!

[BisManBison]

So, back to the topic at hand as I think gully had a great point.....

How many MVFC teams are doing FCOA? From past conversations, this is what I remember:

1. NDSU
2. SDSU on case by case basis
3. UND even though broke

Fill in others, please or correct me.

I believe USD does as well.

http://volanteonline.com/2015/09/usd-to-give-cost-of-attendance-stipends-to-student-athletes/

[THEsocalledfan]

I believe USD does as well.

http://volanteonline.com/2015/09/usd-to-give-cost-of-attendance-stipends-to-student-athletes/

added.....others?

[BattleBorn]

I blame Mr. Jim Kramer more than anything.

[SDbison]

[I][I]
So, back to the topic at hand as I think gully had a great point.....

How many MVFC teams are doing FCOA? From past conversations, this is what I remember:

1. NDSU
2. SDSU on case by case basis
3. UND even though broke and only because NDSU did
4. USD

Fill in others, please or correct me. Fixed the UND entry for you.

[EC8CH]

[I][I] Fixed the UND entry for you.

No lies detected.

[HerdBot]

So, back to the topic at hand as I think gully had a great point.....

How many MVFC teams are doing FCOA? From past conversations, this is what I remember:

1. NDSU
2. SDSU on case by case basis
3. UND even though broke
4. USD

Fill in others, please or correct me.

I think UNi does it on a smaller level, kind of case by case but I could be wrong

[THEsocalledfan]

I think UNi does it on a smaller level, kind of case by case but I could be wrong

Get me a link, and I'll add it; sounded to me it was to be Bball only at the time.

[EC8CH]

I wonder how common it is for teams that compete against NDSU to offer COA on a case by case basis and keep it hush hush? The less they talk about it, the less chance there is for it to cause bad feelings on their teams.

[tjbison]

I wonder how common it is for teams that compete against NDSU to offer COA on a case by case basis and keep it hush hush? The less they talk about it, the less chance there is for it to cause bad feelings on their teams.

No way something like that stays quiet in a locker room of 17-21 or olds

[EC8CH]

No way something like that stays quiet in a locker room of 17-21 or olds

I don't know. Some of these schools like SDSU have publicly said they offer it on a case by case basis which is already kinda shady. How many do but just don't advertise it and tell the players that get it to keep it to themselves? I can see a 17-21 year old keeping his mouth shut for a few grand a year.

[GreenfieldBison]

No way something like that stays quiet in a locker room of 17-21 or olds

When was the last time you discussed your salary/compensation with any of your co-workers? And if your employer threatened you with sanction (of any kind) for doing so? The last time for me was when I was indeed a 20 year old but this was in a sales environment where each salesperson's monthly production was publicly posted on a wall and updated daily that ALL employees could see.

[56BISON73]

I don't know. Some of these schools like SDSU have publicly said they offer it on a case by case basis which is already kinda shady. How many do but just don't advertise it and tell the players that get it to keep it to themselves? I can see a 17-21 year old keeping his mouth shut for a few grand a year.

The kids know what schools offer it and what schools dont. i am sure the kids are told upfront when they are recruited on how much the full COA is and how much they get. One question I need an answer on is the COA different for a Chicago kid vs a Fargo kid?

[tjbison]

When was the last time you discussed your salary/compensation with any of your co-workers? And if your employer threatened you with sanction (of any kind) for doing so? The last time for me was when I was indeed a 20 year old but this was in a sales environment where each salesperson's monthly production was publicly posted on a wall and updated daily that ALL employees could see.

It's not the same situation at all, but yeah ok. 2 kids living together 1 has money the other is day to day and nothing is going to get mentioned? And how exactly came the school threaten sanctions to a kid if he talks?

But maybe your right

[GreenfieldBison]

It's not the same situation at all, but yeah ok. 2 kids living together 1 has money the other is day to day and nothing is going to get mentioned? And how exactly came the school threaten sanctions to a kid if he talks?

But maybe your right

I don’t know. Is there civilian oversight of the awarding of scholarships/COA or is that left up to the coaching staff completely? Sanction could be the withdrawal of COA and/or scholarship if there is leakage.

Not saying this happens at NDSU. I bet it does not. It is poisonous but it is standard practice in corporate America. You try discussing comp with co-workers in corporate and you are going to eventually find some friction somewhere, perhaps terminal.


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[CyPanth]

The kids know what schools offer it and what schools dont. i am sure the kids are told upfront when they are recruited on how much the full COA is and how much they get. One question I need an answer on is the COA different for a Chicago kid vs a Fargo kid?


Isn't this public information if you know where to look for it?

[EC8CH]

The kids know what schools offer it and what schools dont. i am sure the kids are told upfront when they are recruited on how much the full COA is and how much they get. One question I need an answer on is the COA different for a Chicago kid vs a Fargo kid?

I thought COA was different between schools but the same for all players regardless of their home town.

[PattyBison]

It is poisonous but it is standard practice in corporate America. You try discussing comp with co-workers in corporate and you are going to eventually find some friction somewhere, perhaps terminal.


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This is inaccurate information. Depending on the level of employee and the state, it is illegal for an employer to prohibit sharing of salary information. This practice while previously common, has been identified as a key contributor to workplace pay discrimination. Clearly, ND is not an employee rights state, so I doubt there is protection beyond what is federal law under NLRB laws. MN is a completely different story and prohibits any adverse action against an employee for discussing their wages.

[GreenfieldBison]

This is inaccurate information. Depending on the level of employee and the state, it is illegal for an employer to prohibit sharing of salary information. This practice while previously common, has been identified as a key contributor to workplace pay discrimination. Clearly, ND is not an employee rights state, so I doubt there is protection beyond what is federal law under NLRB laws. MN is a completely different story and prohibits any adverse action against an employee for discussing their wages.

Yep. Illegal as hell. As a result there is absolutely no gender, race, political, religious, sexual orientation or age discrimination. Right. In the same way that laws regarding..., never mind.

It just happens every day. In every company. Nationwide. #realityBites


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[PattyBison]

Yep. Illegal as hell. As a result there is absolutely no gender, race, political, religious, sexual orientation or age discrimination. Right. In the same way that laws regarding..., never mind.

It just happens every day. In every company. Nationwide. #realityBites


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Um. Yeah. Ok. Are you still in the workforce?

My employer in the 90s explicitly told employees that they could not discuss salary. My employer today explicitly tells managers that they cannot ask employees from discussing salaries. Adverse action will be taken against the manager if they advise employees to not discuss it. My company doesn't even allow managers to ask a candidate's current salary. We can only ask what their salary requirements are.

But regardless, as someone else stated, this is a horrible example, so you probably want to move on.

[GreenfieldBison]

Um. Yeah. Ok. Are you still in the workforce?

My employer in the 90s explicitly told employees that they could not discuss salary. My employer today explicitly tells managers that they cannot ask employees from discussing salaries. Adverse action will be taken against the manager if they advise employees to not discuss it. My company doesn't even allow managers to ask a candidate's current salary. We can only ask what their salary requirements are.

But regardless, as someone else stated, this is a horrible example, so you probably want to move on.

I retired a year ago so no I am no longer in the workforce. By choice. This is why I am able to speak so plainly. There can no longer be any impact on me. Still you will not find me naming names for obvious reasons unless it is already public information.

I assume you must work in a government/military environment. I believe (but do not know for sure) that things are more “by the book” there. In corporate America laws are things to be interpreted, not followed “to the letter”. Laws are gray and not black and white after all. If not then we would not need peeps to hold JD’s.

Oh and this is not a horrible example. It is about human nature. This is a factor that dominates. Do you ever wonder why the coaching staff of the Bison stresses the concept of “Team” so very hard? And why they recruit people who are open to/embrace this concept? Question for you: if the Bison could ever successfully recruit a (pick a name here) five star diva player - would they want them? I bet not. This is the primary reason why IMHO.


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[PattyBison]

I retired a year ago so no I am no longer in the workforce. By choice. This is why I am able to speak so plainly. There can no longer be any impact on me. Still you will not find me naming names for obvious reasons unless it is already public information.

I assume you must work in a government/military environment. I believe (but do not know for sure) that things are more “by the book” there. In corporate America laws are things to be interpreted, not followed “to the letter”. Laws are gray and not black and white after all. If not then we would not need peeps to hold JD’s.

Oh and this is not a horrible example. It is about human nature. This is a factor that dominates. Do you ever wonder why the coaching staff of the Bison stresses the concept of “Team” so very hard? And why they recruit people who are open to/embrace this concept? Question for you: if the Bison could ever successfully recruit a (pick a name here) five star diva player - would they want them? I bet not. This is the primary reason why IMHO.


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I do not work in a government/military environment. My employer is the definition of corporate america. My employer is also not known for having favorable environment for employee rights/benefits. But even my employer did a complete 180 in the last 10 years. I find it unfathomable that my employee unfriendly employer is the only one shifting. The world is changing.

And I still maintain it is a horrible example. Who is on scholarship is not a secret and never has been. And your other argument doesn't apply since NDSU is funding FCOA for all sports.

[GreenfieldBison]

I do not work in a government/military environment. My employer is the definition of corporate america. My employer is also not known for having favorable environment for employee rights/benefits. But even my employer did a complete 180 in the last 10 years. I find it unfathomable that my employee unfriendly employer is the only one shifting. The world is changing.

And I still maintain it is a horrible example. Who is on scholarship is not a secret and never has been. And your other argument doesn't apply since NDSU is funding FCOA for all sports.

Again, I am not referring to NDSU but rather other schools where FCOA is discretionary. I repeat: I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT NDSU SUFFERS FROM THIS EFFECT. (So I could be wrong here too of course)

However if you believe that your employer is 100% in compliance with the culture/policy and/or law then you are incredibly naive. Ask yourself this question: who is ascending to the top of the pyramid in your company and why? Don’t answer that immediately but rather evaluate and reflect for a bit and consider all the data.

Yes I agree that the entirety of corporate America is changing but the ONLY thing that will cause permanent and pervasive change is when PEOPLE GO TO JAIL. Monetary damages are just a cost of doing business.


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[PattyBison]

Again, I am not referring to NDSU but rather other schools where FCOA is discretionary. I repeat: I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT NDSU SUFFERS FROM THIS EFFECT. (So I could be wrong here too of course)

However if you believe that your employer is 100% in compliance with the culture/policy and/or law then you are incredibly naive. Ask yourself this question: who is ascending to the top of the pyramid in your company and why? Don’t answer that immediately but rather evaluate and reflect for a bit and consider all the data.

Yes I agree that the entirety of corporate America is changing but the ONLY thing that will cause permanent and pervasive change is when PEOPLE GO TO JAIL. Monetary damages are just a cost of doing business.


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Please direct me to where I said my employer was 100% in compliance with anything? I didn't. I said their internal policies, training and practices of HR have changed 100% in the last 10 years. And I can see quite clearly who had been rising to the top of the pyramid in the last 10 years. And that argument is blown to pieces as well. And please don't indicate that I am naive. I'm not.

I think your perspectives were based on the companies you worked for. I have no doubt you are correct in their practices. I am simply saying that companies that have previously had that attitude have changed. And again, don't tell me it is all for show. It's not. It is in response to litigation.

[GreenfieldBison]

Please direct me to where I said my employer was 100% in compliance with anything? I didn't. I said their internal policies, training and practices of HR have changed 100% in the last 10 years. And I can see quite clearly who had been rising to the top of the pyramid in the last 10 years. And that argument is blown to pieces as well. And please don't indicate that I am naive. I'm not.

I think your perspectives were based on the companies you worked for. I have no doubt you are correct in their practices. I am simply saying that companies that have previously had that attitude have changed. And again, don't tell me it is all for show. It's not. It is in response to litigation.

OK.


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[ByeSonBusiness]

Notre Dame would be the only team worth playing among the FBS independents. And they wouldn’t schedule us. They don’t need to. They can take their pick from their traditional rivals, plus their guaranteed 5 ACC games per year. They already play USC and Stanford every year, they did a H&H with Georgia, they play Michigan and Michigan State often, they had a Texas H&H.

They don’t need us. Now you’re left playing UMass, Liberty, not exactly a step up in competition. Then to fill out the schedule we’d end up paying MVSU again to come take a beating, but it would cost even more.

BYU and Army would be fun to play too.

If NDSU was FBS, they might be able to get a game with Notre Dame too. Unlikely but possible.