ESPN names 2013 Bison a top 150 college football team of all time

[RossUglem]

Our free story includes Gene Taylor, Christian Dudzik, Cole Jirik, Trevor Gebhart and Brock Jensen:
https://247sports.com/college/north-dakota-state/Article/ESPN-NDSU-Football-Top-150-Craig-Bohl-Brock-Jensen-Cole-Jirik-Christian-Dudzik-135435145/

[Professor Chaos]

That's some pretty good recognition for a little 'ol FCS school.... that was one hell of a team though and those guys deserve it.

However... I'm still not convinced that the 2018 team wasn't just as good or better. :fight:

I guess we'll have to see how the guys who are still active that were contributors on that 2018 team finish off their careers.

Btw… how good would've that 2013 team been if they didn't have their best QB sitting on the bench???

[FrozenTech]

The 2018 team may have been better. May.

But the 2018 team never got to play a FBS game. And thats going to be the sauce for ESPN.

And the 2013 team had the best QB for the time. Carson Wentz was a hell of a QB. Obviously had better physical talent. But if you're going to tell me he would have made better *decisions* on the field then Senior variant Brock Jensen - No just no.

[Professor Chaos]

The 2018 team may have been better. May.

But the 2018 team never got to play a FBS game. And thats going to be the sauce for ESPN.

And the 2013 team had the best QB for the time. Carson Wentz was a hell of a QB. Obviously had better physical talent. But if you're going to tell me he would have made better *decisions* on the field then Senior variant Brock Jensen - No just no.
Can't argue with the results on the field for Brock. It was one of the all-time teams in the rich history of NDSU football regardless.

[OrygunBison]

Can't argue with the results on the field for Brock. It was one of the all-time teams in the rich history of NDSU football regardless.

I always think that it's weird that some of our fans think that we'd have been so much better had CW not been on the bench. That 2013 team basically had no competition in FCS that year. We arguably could not have had better results because our coaches would have still throttled things back at some point every game. The only difference would have been the timing of when they did it. Yeah, yeah, I know that one or two teams played tough but that would have likely still happened.

[Mr Pep Band]

Very neat ESPN did this to celebrate 150 years of college FB. Buuuuuuuut, I have to wonder, is this based off which teams are best ALL-TIME, or which teams are the best when compared to their peers in that given season? I have to think the latter because modern teams would destroy teams from even the 90's.

[El_Chapo]

The 2018 team may have been better. May.

But the 2018 team never got to play a FBS game. And thats going to be the sauce for ESPN.

And the 2013 team had the best QB for the time. Carson Wentz was a hell of a QB. Obviously had better physical talent. But if you're going to tell me he would have made better *decisions* on the field then Senior variant Brock Jensen - No just no.

LOL no way. 2013 had multiple NFL players, beat a Big 12 defending champ & destroyed everyone else. this isn't even a debate, 2018 had 3 creampuffs

[RossUglem]

Very neat ESPN did this to celebrate 150 years of college FB. Buuuuuuuut, I have to wonder, is this based off which teams are best ALL-TIME, or which teams are the best when compared to their peers in that given season? I have to think the latter because modern teams would destroy teams from even the 90's.

This sentiment is basically exactly what Dudzik said to me.

[Professor Chaos]

I always think that it's weird that some of our fans think that we'd have been so much better had CW not been on the bench. That 2013 team basically had no competition in FCS that year. We arguably could not have had better results because our coaches would have still throttled things back at some point every game. The only difference would have been the timing of when they did it. Yeah, yeah, I know that one or two teams played tough but that would have likely still happened.
It's not complicated. I think Wentz was a better QB in 2013 than Jensen was. Maybe I'm wrong... maybe I'm not. That team did have to come from behind in the 4th quarter twice that year. To Jensen's credit he did it. Would've Wentz did that? Maybe. Would've Wentz had to do that? Maybe not.

It's an interesting hypothetical to me because that team is considered one of the best FCS teams of all-time and Wentz is one of the most talented FCS QBs of all-time who just happened to be on that team but never played a meaningful snap on it.

[OrygunBison]

It's not complicated. I think Wentz was a better QB in 2013 than Jensen was. Maybe I'm wrong... maybe I'm not. That team did have to come from behind in the 4th quarter twice that year. To Jensen's credit he did it. Would've Wentz did that? Maybe. Would've Wentz had to do that? Maybe not.

It's an interesting hypothetical to me because that team is considered one of the best FCS teams of all-time and Wentz is one of the most talented FCS QBs of all-time who just happened to be on that team but never played a meaningful snap on it.

I get what you're saying. I just scoff at folks (not you in this case) that indicate that the difference would be remarkably better. Given the actual RESULTS, I can't see the logic. Also, I'm not sure that there's an NDSU QB all-time that had a better season than Brock did that particular year. Maybe Easton in 2018. I get that CW is a much better professional talent but he never had the results in college that Brock did, in spite of all of the praise that he was receiving. Brock was near perfect for the type of gameplan that NDSU played in 2013 season. (Similarly, Easton was near perfect for the type of gameplan that NDSU played in the 2018 season.)

[THEsocalledfan]

I just tell people the 2013 team was so good Carson Wentz was our BACKUP Qb. Nothing else has to be said.

[Bison03]

I would like to thank Tim Brewster as without him, none of this would be possible. Ha!

[CAS4127]

This sentiment is basically exactly what Dudzik said to me.

Which I personally disagree with. Pursuant to that premise, and by extrapolation, all the current NFL playoff teams and Super Bowl Champs would destroy automatically those from 1970s-2000s. I don’t think that’s the case.


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[EC8CH]

Which I personally disagree with. Pursuant to that premise, and by extrapolation, all the current NFL playoff teams and Super Bowl Champs would destroy automatically those from 1970s-2000s. I don’t think that’s the case.


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If I ever build a time machine, this will be one of the first things I test. Bringing the '85 Bears to the future to compete against modern teams. It would be awesome to see what would happen.

[2011BisonAlumni]

2013 Bison included on the list at #147

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/CFB150teams/the-150-greatest-teams-college-football-150-year-history

[2011BisonAlumni]

I just tell people the 2013 team was so good Carson Wentz was our BACKUP Qb. Nothing else has to be said.

Who the hell knows. We might one day be saying that the 2018 was so good Trey Lance was the backup.

Only one reason I would take the 2018 team. Chris Klieman was a better head coach than Craig Bohl, and I’m confident he would have found a way for his team to have the edge.

[56BISON73]

It's not complicated. I think Wentz was a better QB in 2013 than Jensen was. Maybe I'm wrong... maybe I'm not. That team did have to come from behind in the 4th quarter twice that year. To Jensen's credit he did it. Would've Wentz did that? Maybe. Would've Wentz had to do that? Maybe not.

It's an interesting hypothetical to me because that team is considered one of the best FCS teams of all-time and Wentz is one of the most talented FCS QBs of all-time who just happened to be on that team but never played a meaningful snap on it.

Yet you think he was a better qb even though he didnt take a meaningful snap? Hmmm What does having to come from behind have to do with anything?

I think he was damn good QB. But he was laid up and slowed down by numerous injuries. If you really look at his career he really didnt play that much. To put him as one of the most talented OBs of all time is a stretch IMO. What hes doing now isnt debatable but it doesnt transfer back to what he did in college.

[Professor Chaos]

Yet you think he was a better qb even though he didnt take a meaningful snap? Hmmm What does having to come from behind have to do with anything?

I think he was damn good QB. But he was laid up and slowed down by numerous injuries. If you really look at his career he really didnt play that much. To put him as one of the most talented OBs of all time is a stretch IMO. What hes doing now isnt debatable but it doesnt transfer back to what he did in college.
I'm saying that if Wentz was the starting QB they may have already been ahead of K-State and UNI therefore he wouldn't have had to come from behind in the 4th quarter. It's all hypothetical so feel free to disagree as you will.

IMO his run through the playoffs in '14 and first half of '15 is the best QB play I've seen at NDSU since the title run began. Put Jensen on the '14 team and they lose in the playoffs. Put Jensen on the '15 team with how much they struggled to run the ball early in the season and they're probably 3-3 at best through those first 6 games. From a physical tools standpoint Wentz was just flat better than Jensen in every tangible aspect of his game and that's true in college just as much as the NFL. Again that's just my opinion. I don't pretend to be an all-knowing football guru so call me full of shit if you want but I doubt it'll change my mind.

EDIT: And to be clear I am in no way saying that they should've played Wentz over Jensen in '13. It would've been dumb to do that to a guy who had won 2 nattys as a starting QB and was a senior. I just find it as a testament to the program that they even had a situation like that to begin with. Talk about first world problems.

[56BISON73]

I'm saying that if Wentz was the starting QB they may have already been ahead of K-State and UNI therefore he wouldn't have had to come from behind in the 4th quarter. It's all hypothetical so feel free to disagree as you will.

IMO his run through the playoffs in '14 and first half of '15 is the best QB play I've seen at NDSU since the title run began. Put Jensen on the '14 team and they lose in the playoffs. Put Jensen on the '15 team with how much they struggled to run the ball early in the season and they're probably 3-3 at best through those first 6 games. Again that's just my opinion. I don't pretend to be an all-knowing football guru so call me full of shit if you want.

EDIT: And to be clear I am in no way saying that they should've played Wentz over Jensen in '13. It would've been dumb to do that to a guy who had won 2 nattys and was a senior. I just find it as a testament to the program that they even had a situation like that to begin with. Talk about first world problems.

No reason to get testy. you made some statements that didnt makes sense to me and I was just trying to figure out how you got to where you were at.

[Professor Chaos]

No reason to get testy. you made some statements that didnt makes sense to me and I was just trying to figure out how you got to where you were at.
It's all good man. Like I said you can disagree and it's impossible for me to call you wrong since the results on the field prove what a quality team that was and what a quality QB Jensen was. My position is completely hypothetical so it's a tough to justify to any reasonable degree of certainty. It's just message board fodder.

Anyway, I'll quit derailing this thread.

[89MTBISON]

2013 Bison rated #147. The real debate is whether Wentz would have started for the #145 rated Div 3 2012 Mount Union team.

[Herd]

It's not complicated. I think Wentz was a better QB in 2013 than Jensen was. Maybe I'm wrong... maybe I'm not. That team did have to come from behind in the 4th quarter twice that year. To Jensen's credit he did it. Would've Wentz did that? Maybe. Would've Wentz had to do that? Maybe not.

It's an interesting hypothetical to me because that team is considered one of the best FCS teams of all-time and Wentz is one of the most talented FCS QBs of all-time who just happened to be on that team but never played a meaningful snap on it.

You realize in 2015:
Wentz 5-2
Stick 8-0

You’re 2013 suggestions don’t fly.

[56BISON73]

It's all good man. Like I said you can disagree and it's impossible for me to call you wrong since the results on the field prove what a quality team that was and what a quality QB Jensen was. My position is completely hypothetical so it's a tough to justify to any reasonable degree of certainty. It's just message board fodder.

Anyway, I'll quit derailing this thread.

Dont quit. I enjoy your posts.

[Christopher Moen]

You realize in 2015:
Wentz 5-2
Stick 8-0

You’re 2013 suggestions don’t fly.

Pretty good point. However, and I mentioned this back in 2015, that prior to Wentz’s injury against USD, the team seemed (my opinion) too reliant on one individual to win games. When Stick came in, the team started to function more as a whole again and performed pretty darn good, especially at YSU. When Wentz came back for the Championship Game, JSU didn’t have a chance as NDSU looked like a Super Bison team.


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[EC8CH]

Pretty good point. However, and I mentioned this back in 2015, that prior to Wentz’s injury against USD, the team seemed (my opinion) too reliant on one individual to win games. When Stick came in, the team started to function more as a whole again and performed pretty darn good, especially at YSU. When Wentz came back for the Championship Game, JSU didn’t have a chance as NDSU looked like a Super Bison team.


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Whenever JSU steps out of the OVC they rarely have a chance.

[Christopher Moen]

Whenever JSU steps out of the OVC they rarely have a chance.

But but....Auburn!!!

Sorry, I couldn’t resist.


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[89MTBISON]

Pretty good point. However, and I mentioned this back in 2015, that prior to Wentz’s injury against USD, the team seemed (my opinion) too reliant on one individual to win games. When Stick came in, the team started to function more as a whole again and performed pretty darn good, especially at YSU. When Wentz came back for the Championship Game, JSU didn’t have a chance as NDSU looked like a Super Bison team.


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This is spot on Chris, Carson's biggest fault is overconfidence.

[EC8CH]

But but....Auburn!!!

Sorry, I couldn’t resist.


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Ahhh good times.

[Christopher Moen]

This is spot on Chris, Carson's biggest fault is overconfidence.

I was more in the thought that the team was over reliant (confident) on Carson’s skills that they were less disciplined and not everyone was doing their jobs to the best ability.

Yes, Carson is confident, but that’s a key characteristic of an Alpha-Dog/field general. Imagine guys like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady without it.


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[89MTBISON]

I was more in the thought that the team was over reliant (confident) on Carson’s skills that they were less disciplined and not everyone was doing their jobs to the best ability.

Yes, Carson is confident, but that’s a key characteristic of an Alpha-Dog/field general. Imagine guys like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady without it.


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And yet, we didn't need Wentz to carry the load, Stick went undefeated with the same team. Wentz didn't play within the team framework that's been the hallmark of our success the last 8 years. Stick played the role of QB, Wentz tried to play Superman. He still suffers from that in the pros, hopefully he'll figure that out, I have my doubts.

[Christopher Moen]

And yet, we didn't need Wentz to carry the load, Stick went undefeated with the same team. Wentz didn't play within the team framework that's been the hallmark of our success the last 8 years. Stick played the role of QB, Wentz tried to play Superman. He still suffers from that in the pros, hopefully he'll figure that out, I have my doubts.

Yes, he needs to be more of CEO on the field where he makes sure everyone is doing their job too and less of a Thanos.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190911/2ff53017e7375244c50e153e306c7269.gif


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[Mr Pep Band]

Yes, he needs to be more of CEO on the field where he makes sure everyone is doing their job too and less of a Thanos.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190911/2ff53017e7375244c50e153e306c7269.gif


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And that is why Brock was the better fit for the 2013 team. He was a game manager and not a superman game winner.

[stevdock]

I was more in the thought that the team was over reliant (confident) on Carson’s skills that they were less disciplined and not everyone was doing their jobs to the best ability.

Yes, Carson is confident, but that’s a key characteristic of an Alpha-Dog/field general. Imagine guys like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady without it.


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I always thought it was more what polacek called as oc then Carson calling his own number. I hate to say this because I love watching Carson play but I don’t think ndsu wins the championship unless he gets hurt and the team figures out how to step up and play without him.

[Christopher Moen]

I always thought it was more what polacek called as oc then Carson calling his own number. I hate to say this because I love watching Carson play but I don’t think ndsu wins the championship unless he gets hurt and the team figures out how to step up and play without him.

I think we're saying pretty much the same thing. With what Carson (and RJ) did in 2014, especially during the playoffs, and the well-deserved hype he was receiving, the team seemed undisciplined "maybe" because the team felt they could rely on Carson to bail them out of a bad situation. Unfortunately, with the defense being too young (they would get much, much better as predicted by Klieman by season's end), the team needed to be much more disciplined early on. Fortunately, everything would work out for the best. By the time Carson got healed up for the Championship Game, the team was working on full cylinders and was fully synergized.

[THEsocalledfan]

I always thought it was more what polacek called as oc then Carson calling his own number. I hate to say this because I love watching Carson play but I don’t think ndsu wins the championship unless he gets hurt and the team figures out how to step up and play without him.

Except the year he didn't get hurt and they won the championship...

[GreenfieldBison]

Which I personally disagree with. Pursuant to that premise, and by extrapolation, all the current NFL playoff teams and Super Bowl Champs would destroy automatically those from 1970s-2000s. I don’t think that’s the case.


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Not meaning to argue the point but just to pose a question: which set of rules would those teams be using - 70’s or 2019?


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[yopaulie]

Not meaning to argue the point but just to pose a question: which set of rules would those teams be using - 70’s or 2019?


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You just gave me a vision of Joey Browner horse tackling players on every play, and the 2020 offenses wilting under the duress.

[JMB]

Which I personally disagree with. Pursuant to that premise, and by extrapolation, all the current NFL playoff teams and Super Bowl Champs would destroy automatically those from 1970s-2000s. I don’t think that’s the case.


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To be honest, I think the modern, lets say Miami Dophins, would line up against, let's say the Vikings Purple People Eaters, and run the ball like we did against Montana St. only because the scale of the humans on the line of scrimmage is so different. Not saying the players are "more talented" per say, but we are just that much better at nutrition and training to develop really big people who can still move really really quickly.

[JMB]

I think we're saying pretty much the same thing. With what Carson (and RJ) did in 2014, especially during the playoffs, and the well-deserved hype he was receiving, the team seemed undisciplined "maybe" because the team felt they could rely on Carson to bail them out of a bad situation. Unfortunately, with the defense being too young (they would get much, much better as predicted by Klieman by season's end), the team needed to be much more disciplined early on. Fortunately, everything would work out for the best. By the time Carson got healed up for the Championship Game, the team was working on full cylinders and was fully synergized.

I always found it interesting that Tennessee won the National Championship the year after Peyton Manning graduated. Granted football is the ultimate team game with 11 dudes on the field, but did they rely too much on Peyton and never really developed as a team?

[ZHerd]

It's not complicated. I think Wentz was a better QB in 2013 than Jensen was. Maybe I'm wrong... maybe I'm not. That team did have to come from behind in the 4th quarter twice that year. To Jensen's credit he did it. Would've Wentz did that? Maybe. Would've Wentz had to do that? Maybe not.

It's an interesting hypothetical to me because that team is considered one of the best FCS teams of all-time and Wentz is one of the most talented FCS QBs of all-time who just happened to be on that team but never played a meaningful snap on it.

Maybe but I doubt it. More potential, but I doubt Carson as a sophomore would have been as good as Brock as a senior. Brock saw the field so well. I think people forget how good Brock’s numbers were as a senior and he played some good teams.