NDSU 10th best football program of all time

[PrideofFargo]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/27379180/the-50-best-college-football-programs-150-years

[Professor Chaos]

That's pretty damn cool!

[oldmantutters]

Texas and Nebraska in our sights!

[heffray]

"Talk about higher education: Where else would Saturday's America have learned there's a "z" in Bison. The dominance that North Dakota State has exerted over the FCS (née I-AA) in the past decade is rivaled only by the program's dominance over Division II for a quarter of a century beginning in 1965. And as we saw when College GameDay visited Fargo in 2013, Bison fans have got some juice."

First, obviously this is pretty cool. But does anyone else wish they would have added their record against the FBS since going D1? A single sentence would have done it...

[Greta Van Herd]

"Talk about higher education: Where else would Saturday's America have learned there's a "z" in Bison. The dominance that North Dakota State has exerted over the FCS (née I-AA) in the past decade is rivaled only by the program's dominance over Division II for a quarter of a century beginning in 1965. And as we saw when College GameDay visited Fargo in 2013, Bison fans have got some juice."

First, obviously this is pretty cool. But does anyone else wish they would have added their record against the FBS since going D1? A single sentence would have done it...

Why? You don’t think the #10 ranking itself stands up to FBS criticism? #LittleManSyndrome?

[EC8CH]

Why? You don’t think the #10 ranking itself stands up to FBS criticism? #LittleManSyndrome?

I'd say it's just more relevant to the point of the ranking than Gameday's appearance in Fargo.

[HerdThat!]

Woulda thought JMU would be at the top of this list.....

[EC8CH]

https://twitter.com/ESPNCFB/status/1162009994600112129

Fun reading the FBS fan butthurt tweets about NDSU being on the list. They should call their favorite FBC school's AD and ask if they've turned down a game against the Bison.

[Professor Chaos]

https://twitter.com/ESPNCFB/status/1162009994600112129

Fun reading the FBS fan butthurt tweets about NDSU being on the list. They should call their favorite FBC school's AD and ask if they've turned down a game against the Bison.
Jeremy mentioned on The Insiders when I was listening a few days back about how a lot of FBS/P5 ADs are pretty receptive to scheduling NDSU. It's usually after they talk to their coaches about it that the tune changes. I found that to be pretty interesting.

[EC8CH]

Jeremy mentioned on The Insiders when I was listening a few days back about how a lot of FBS/P5 ADs are pretty receptive to scheduling NDSU. It's usually after they talk to their coaches about it that the tune changes. I found that to be pretty interesting.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/32/53/35325344557a15c2711778aef585a7bf.jpg

[Greta Van Herd]

I'd say it's just more relevant to the point of the ranking than Gameday's appearance in Fargo.

Except that the FBS wins have no additional relevance at all in this ranking (other than adding to the winning percentage).

But yes, Gameday appearances have no relevance at all in this ranking either, except that it’s an ESPN article and Fargo’s ESPN Gameday appearances probably still stick out to those compiling this data, or writing the story.

But that’s the good news too. NDSU would still be ranked #10 on this list even if our FBS record was 0-15 and we had no Gameday appearances.

[EC8CH]

Except that the FBS wins have no additional relevance at all in this ranking (other than adding to the winning percentage).

But yes, Gameday appearances have no relevance at all in this ranking either, except that it’s an ESPN article and Fargo’s ESPN Gameday appearances probably still stick out to those compiling this data, or writing the story.

But that’s the good news too. NDSU would still be ranked #10 on this list even if our FBS record was 0-15 and we had no Gameday appearances.

It would serve as a preemptive "talk to the hand" for the type of comments on Twitter questioning why a lower level team should even be considered for the list.

[StL Bison Fan]

Yes, ndsu has juice. Not joose

[Christopher Moen]

https://twitter.com/ESPNCFB/status/1162009994600112129

Fun reading the FBS fan butthurt tweets about NDSU being on the list. They should call their favorite FBC school's AD and ask if they've turned down a game against the Bison.

Most of them are fans of one of the Florida teams. Those teams have been pretty good, but mostly only during my lifespan. I lot of the salty commentators don't seem to realize the list is college football (no division stated) and all-time (covering more than the past quarter century, although the 30% for win percentage since integration is a great boost for NDSU compared to the pre and early modern years).

[Hammersmith]

Hopefully everyone went to the bottom of the original article to read the methodology, but in case they didn't:


The formula
Basic model
Dominance, 20% -- number of national championships
Peak strength, 20% -- winning percentage for best 50 seasons in program history
Since integration, 30% -- winning percentage over the past 50 seasons (1969-2018)
Early modern, 20% -- winning percentage over the middle 50 seasons (1919-1968). Mostly pre-integration and included some games against non-college teams
Pre-modern, 10% -- winning percentage over the first 50 seasons (1869-1918) *mostly pre-standardization of current rules and many games against non-college teams

Adjustments
National championships below the FBS level count at 50%
National championships before the poll era (1936) count at 50%
Winning percentages when a team was not in Division I are reduced by 10%

Wonder where NDSU would rank if you eliminated the sub-FBS penalties?

[HerdThat!]

Man, IF, GameDay comes back this year, triggering Florida fans with signs is going to be fun and too damn easy

[Bison 4 Life]

Couldn't help myself.

https://i.imgur.com/73Otc42.jpg

[Hammersmith]

Wonder where NDSU would rank if you eliminated the sub-FBS penalties?

Either I'm missing something pretty big, or the formula isn't complete. Removing the penalties, I got a score of 59.01. The article ranked us higher at 63.6.

Only caveat I can think of is that I didn't include playoff games(they weren't in the data set I was using). Surprising that the removal of the playoff record would make that much of a difference.

[totoinfl]

Man, IF, GameDay comes back this year, triggering Florida fans with signs is going to be fun and too damn easy

I live in Florida and you are right...doesn't take much to trigger UF or UCF fans...even though UCF has been relevant for less than 10 years. FSU fans are a bit more reserved, but they still hang onto the glory days...which won't be coming back any time soon.

But they aren't good at reading either. I wear my gear around and they all ask how the Packers are going to be this year...want to beat them with a wrench.

[23Bison]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/32/53/35325344557a15c2711778aef585a7bf.jpg
Haha! Perfect!

[BisManBison]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/32/53/35325344557a15c2711778aef585a7bf.jpg

I’m gonna put them on the schedule and they’ll fly right past us.

[EC8CH]

I’m gonna put them on the schedule and they’ll fly right past us.

Ohhhhhh, that's gooooood.

[Hammersmith]

Either I'm missing something pretty big, or the formula isn't complete. Removing the penalties, I got a score of 59.01. The article ranked us higher at 63.6.

Only caveat I can think of is that I didn't include playoff games(they weren't in the data set I was using). Surprising that the removal of the playoff record would make that much of a difference.

Now I just don't understand. I added the playoff games and I still can't match the ESPN numbers using their own methodology.

63.6 - ESPN number
59.1 - Max number I can come up with(no FCS/DII penalties at all)
53.1 - Number I came up with using printed methodology

20% Championships: 15 (7.5 w/penalties)
20% Best 50 season average: .882 (.814 w/penalties)
10% 1869-1918 average: .603 (.543 w/penalties)
20% 1919-1968 average: .472 (.425 w/penalties)
30% 1969-present average: .765 (.713 w/penalties)

[Sun Bison]

Now I just don't understand. I added the playoff games and I still can't match the ESPN numbers using their own methodology.

63.6 - ESPN number
59.1 - Max number I can come up with(no FCS/DII penalties at all)
53.1 - Number I came up with using printed methodology

20% Championships: 15 (7.5 w/penalties)
20% Best 50 season average: .882 (.814 w/penalties)
10% 1869-1918 average: .603 (.543 w/penalties)
20% 1919-1968 average: .472 (.425 w/penalties)
30% 1969-present average: .765 (.713 w/penalties)

Just roll with it. Their possible mistake is our boon.

[Hammersmith]

Just roll with it. Their possible mistake is our boon.

I tried a couple others just for fun. Apparently they didn't use the exact formula they listed in the article. My spot check shows an inflation of about 18-20% over what their methodology says the numbers should be. Doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but it would have been nice for them to be consistent.

[Uffda]

"Talk about higher education: Where else would Saturday's America have learned there's a "z" in Bison. The dominance that North Dakota State has exerted over the FCS (née I-AA) in the past decade is rivaled only by the program's dominance over Division II for a quarter of a century beginning in 1965. And as we saw when College GameDay visited Fargo in 2013, Bison fans have got some juice."

First, obviously this is pretty cool. But does anyone else wish they would have added their record against the FBS since going D1? A single sentence would have done it...

Yeah...and maybe they could swallow as well, huh? Would that make you happy?

Dude... you're a piece of work.

[EC8CH]

Yeah...and maybe they could swallow as well, huh? Would that make you happy?

Dude... you're a piece of work.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/that-escalated-quickly.jpg

[Uffda]

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/that-escalated-quickly.jpg
Just preseason banter, right?
Everyone that knows college football, knows that NDSU beats up on the FBS. No need to request it in the media to get our nads feeling good.

[MNLonghorn10]

God social media is the worst. Especially twitter. check out this mouth breather:

Put a PSU Logo at Midfield 2019
@kylebeni012
·
19h
Replying to
@ESPNCFB
Is this a joke? Has there been a more consistently dominant program academically and athletically than
@PennStateFball
?

Put a PSU Logo at Midfield 2019
@kylebeni012
·
19h
How many combined NCAA violations do the top 5 programs have?


somebody take away slicks twitter!

[EC8CH]

I tried a couple others just for fun. Apparently they didn't use the exact formula they listed in the article. My spot check shows an inflation of about 18-20% over what their methodology says the numbers should be. Doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but it would have been nice for them to be consistent.

I'm curious. If you eliminate the adjustment:
National championships below the FBS level count at 50%

How many places forward does that move the Bison?

[Bison 4 Life]

I'm curious. If you eliminate the adjustment:
National championships below the FBS level count at 50%

How many places forward does that move the Bison?

I would guess it puts all the 10 + championship teams at the top

[Sioux27]

Should have been ranked higher.

[heffray]

Yeah...and maybe they could swallow as well, huh? Would that make you happy?

Dude... you're a piece of work.

I'm a "piece of work" because I asked a question? LOL, ok bro. Stay cool.

[EC8CH]

I would guess it puts all the 10 + championship teams at the top

National Championships are still only 20% of the overall score though, so maybe not necessarily.

[Hammersmith]

I'm curious. If you eliminate the adjustment:
National championships below the FBS level count at 50%

How many places forward does that move the Bison?

That's what I was trying to find. But since I can't replicate their results, I can't find a solid answer to that question. Best guess is that NDSU would move ahead of Texas and Nebraska to take 8th place behind Yale. Old number was 0.2*15*0.5=1.5. Take away the penalty and it's 0.2*15=3. So add 1.5 to NDSU's score.

[EC8CH]

That's what I was trying to find. But since I can't replicate their results, I can't find a solid answer to that question. Best guess is that NDSU would move ahead of Texas and Nebraska to take 8th place behind Yale. Old number was 0.2*15*0.5=1.5. Take away the penalty and it's 0.2*15=3. So add 1.5 to NDSU's score.

Impressive how dominant the top tier FBS programs are considering that. Would have thought putting NDSUs natties on a even scoring curve would skew the rankings more.

[GreenfieldBison]

Impressive how dominant the top tier FBS programs are considering that. Would have thought putting NDSUs natties on a even scoring curve would skew the rankings more.

There is also a Winning Percentage penalty for non D1 in the "Since Integration" category. That is 30% of the weighting. For NDSU all seasons prior to move to FCS are reduced by 10%.

[Mr Meaty]

NDSU is ranked 10th historically according to the poll. No reason to debate if we should have been higher or lower. WE ARE 10th!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bowdown:

[EC8CH]

NDSU is ranked 10th historically according to the poll. No reason to debate if we should have been higher or lower. WE ARE 10th!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bowdown:

Yes but us math types like to play with the variables to watch how the curves move.

[EC8CH]

On a somewhat related note, none of NDSU's FBS victories made this list:

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/biggest-upsets-college-football-history?fbclid=IwAR0VmO1nXVH_Ctm-kuXLx941AW3JQisCI6YFu-Le19RyiB0Elt2jofujEIo

Probably because when NDSU beats an FBS team... it's not really that much of an upset ;)

*it is funny Butler vs YSU made the list though

[GreenfieldBison]

On a somewhat related note, none of NDSU's FBS victories made this list:

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/biggest-upsets-college-football-history?fbclid=IwAR0VmO1nXVH_Ctm-kuXLx941AW3JQisCI6YFu-Le19RyiB0Elt2jofujEIo

Probably because when NDSU beats an FBS team... it's not really that much of an upset ;)

*it is funny Butler vs YSU made the list though

Think App St vs Michigan stole our thunder there. But that JMU game vs VT must have been quite a contest if it eclipsed NDSU vs Iowa.

[Bison bison]

I'll give em the first three and Navy vs Notre Dame, the rest are meh.

[EC8CH]

Think App St vs Michigan stole our thunder there. But that JMU game vs VT must have been quite a contest if it eclipsed NDSU vs Iowa.

That list isn't solely FCS over FBS upsets as well. I just think at this point anyone looking back making a story about upsets looks at an NDSU wins over FBS teams and questions how surprising that really is.

[GreenfieldBison]

That list isn't solely FCS over FBS upsets as well. I just think at this point anyone looking back making a story about upsets looks at an NDSU wins over FBS teams and questions how surprising that really is.

Yep, I get it.

[ByeSonBusiness]

This list is dumb. NDSU doesnt belong in the same area code, much less zip code, as the reat on the list. But its flattering and free publicity so I suppose nobody should complain too much.

[NDSU92]

This list is dumb. NDSU doesnt belong in the same area code, much less zip code, as the reat on the list. But its flattering and free publicity so I suppose nobody should complain too much.

Lol why are you even mad, ND made the list???

[56BISON73]

This list is dumb. NDSU doesnt belong in the same area code, much less zip code, as the reat on the list. But its flattering and free publicity so I suppose nobody should complain too much.

This isnt all about heads up competition. This is about the program and its accomplishments. So yes we should be part of the conversation especially since we have competed well against the FBS..

[NovaBison]

This list is dumb. NDSU doesnt belong in the same area code, much less zip code, as the reat on the list. But its flattering and free publicity so I suppose nobody should complain too much.

You really don't understand do you?

[EC8CH]

Of All Time!!!!!

[Christopher Moen]

Of All Time!!!!!

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0ab19a59c9f15977810d5214a8429d5a/tenor.gif

[ByeSonBusiness]

Lol why are you even mad, ND made the list???

Well duh of course they made the list. I didn't say anything about them.

Their methodology here is silly if it results in a FCS school as the tenth best program.

[Rock]

Does Notre Dame really belong at number 2?

AP voting was a marketing play the numbers scheme for years. Skews a lot of the “champions”. NDSU would have had a very tough time with those championship selection methods even today.

Really 10 without needing to go through a playoff? Way to be voted into a position to win 10 single games guys. Only 4 of those after 1950...

Once they are voted in position and win 2 in a row they can claim the ability to win in a playoff situation I suppose.

I guess transitive properties bowl they can pretend they would have beaten ‘Bama this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HerdBoy]

On a somewhat related note, none of NDSU's FBS victories made this list:

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/biggest-upsets-college-football-history?fbclid=IwAR0VmO1nXVH_Ctm-kuXLx941AW3JQisCI6YFu-Le19RyiB0Elt2jofujEIo

Probably because when NDSU beats an FBS team... it's not really that much of an upset ;)

*it is funny Butler vs YSU made the list though


https://media.giphy.com/media/SzrhgYEilSQEw/giphy.gif

[DakotaOkie]

This list is dumb. NDSU doesnt belong in the same area code, much less zip code, as the reat on the list. But its flattering and free publicity so I suppose nobody should complain too much.

Did you even read the list? Silly and dumb is Minnesota on the list at 29. According to the blurb, those folks haven't had a share of a Big 10 title in over 50 years and won national championships nearly 100 years ago. However, a hundred years ago they were top dogs and as such belong on the list.

[heffray]

This isnt all about heads up competition. This is about the program and its accomplishments. So yes we should be part of the conversation especially since we have competed well against the FBS..

Careful with this suggestion, Pat, someone may call you “a piece of work”...