Resolution would eliminate names, locations of universities, colleges from ND Const

[Bison 4 Life]

Not sure what the goal of this is but it could make it easier for the elimination or a downgrade to certain western 4 year colleges.


https://www.inforum.com/news/education/953634-Resolution-would-eliminate-names-locations-of-universities-colleges-from-ND-Constitution

[Vet70]

not sure what the goal of this is but it could make it easier for the elimination or a downgrade to certain western 4 year colleges.


https://www.inforum.com/news/education/953634-resolution-would-eliminate-names-locations-of-universities-colleges-from-nd-constitution

doa........

[tony]

Not sure what the goal of this is but it could make it easier for the elimination or a downgrade to certain western 4 year colleges.


https://www.inforum.com/news/education/953634-Resolution-would-eliminate-names-locations-of-universities-colleges-from-ND-Constitution

Need some colleges out in the west though. Mayville and Valley City can't be liking this though.

[Bison 4 Life]

Need some colleges out in the west though. Mayville and Valley City can't be liking this though.

I would say Dickinson and Mayville for sure. VC has the teacher's college which is important. A lot of people from the Valley go there for that.

Maybe ditch Williston and Dickinson. They can go to Minot and Bismarck.

[StL Bison Fan]

I would say Dickinson and Mayville for sure. VC has the teacher's college which is important. A lot of people from the Valley go there for that.

Maybe ditch Williston and Dickinson. They can go to Minot and Bismarck.

Bottineau. A forestry school with out forestry

[Vet70]

The only College that has ever closed in ND is Ellendale. I firmly believe that the only way any other campus is going to close is to follow that model. (Photo Illustration)

https://i.imgur.com/lDOGHa4.jpg?1

[taper]

Mayville needs to be merged into VCSU. I can't believe Dickenson is still accredited after their mess a few years ago. Of course this'll never happen.

[ndsubison1]

I can't see anyone being confused by the articles headline

[ByeSonBusiness]

Need some colleges out in the west though. Mayville and Valley City can't be liking this though.

Those were the two who came to my mind. Dickinson, Williston, Minot, they serve functions. Mayville and Valley City? Not so much.

[ByeSonBusiness]

I would say Dickinson and Mayville for sure. VC has the teacher's college which is important. A lot of people from the Valley go there for that.

Maybe ditch Williston and Dickinson. They can go to Minot and Bismarck.

You clearly grew up in Cass County lmao. That much is obvious from this post alone.

[scottietohottie]

Bottineau. A forestry school with out forestry

You've never been to the turtle mountains. You should see my mantle.

[StL Bison Fan]

You've never been to the turtle mountains. You should see my mantle.

Yes. I have been to the turtle mountains. For FS staff meetings. The constitution says the school of forestry is in bottineau.
Last I heard, they were looking for volunteers to teach forestry. You can take it on line from another college. Or you can go to ndsu and get a four year degree
Perhaps they found someone but the fact that they had this situation at all says something

[roadwarrior]

Check enrollment figures for Devils Lake. The majority of students are online only. What's the purpose of a campus?

[gotts]

Check enrollment figures for Devils Lake. The majority of students are online only. What's the purpose of a campus?

teh hockies?

[scottietohottie]

Check enrollment figures for Devils Lake. The majority of students are online only. What's the purpose of a campus?

My sister works there and seems to have a full classroom. Actually just stopped yesterday and the parking lot was full.

[Bison bison]

Zero reason for this to in the Constitution.

Understand that much of it is because horse-trading 125 years ago. But I'm fully on board with this.

[oldmantutters]

Zero reason for this to in the Constitution.

Understand that much of it is because horse-trading 125 years ago. But I'm fully on board with this.Agreed, fully support the removal of this language from the constitution. Ultimately I think the number of schools needs to be reduced but I understand how hard that could hot some communities. I think the best compromise is to bring some of these smaller schools under the umbrella of the larger universities. Ultimately, I think this is a stepping stone to that.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[JMB]

If it passes how long until Rob Port writes the article "Its time we pull the plug on NDSU"?

[El_Chapo]

Its ridiculous how some of these stay open.

should be 4 universities ONLY:

ndsu
und
bismarck
minot st

jamestown is private duh

[Bison 4 Life]

No state with ND's population and geography has as many state supported public 4 year universities.

SD has two. Wyoming, with nearly double the land area has one.

[ByeSonBusiness]

No state with ND's population and geography has as many state supported public 4 year universities.

SD has two. Wyoming, with nearly double the land area has one.

SDSU
USD
Black Hills State
Dakota State
Northern State
SD School of Mines

....or am I missing something?

[Bison 4 Life]

SDSU
USD
Black Hills State
Dakota State
Northern State
SD School of Mines

....or am I missing something?

Sorry, there's my snobbishness again. Discounting non-doctoral universities.

[JMB]

SDSU
USD
Black Hills State
Dakota State
Northern State
SD School of Mines

....or am I missing something?

Wow, think how many "Megakota" will have.

[Facts]

No state with ND's population and geography has as many state supported public 4 year universities.

SD has two. Wyoming, with nearly double the land area has one.

ND has way too many schools, I agree. But, nearly double the land area????

Wyoming 98,000 mi2
ND 71,000 mi2

That, my friend, is an “alternate reality” :)

[bisonaudit]

Wow, think how many "Megakota" will have.

And two fewer Senators.

[Bison 4 Life]

And two fewer Senators.

that would be the only positive.

[bisonaudit]

that would be the only positive.

Sure. For everyone not living in megakota.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

ND has 760k people in a country of 326M on a planet with 7.53B. If you haven’t been paying attention, the world outside ND isn't exactly trending in a 'nice' direction. Infighting over 11 schools is a remarkably stupid position for ND to put itself in. The history of the current model shows how misplaced it is and anyone who defends it today likely has a hidden agenda.

NDSU has already won the 'best research university of ND' award (I could throw out numbers all day long that prove this) so just accept it and move on. Trying to internally undermine NDSU’s success (e.g., through politics) hurts ND as a whole and shouldn’t be tolerated, and I don't believe it will be any longer.

That leaves merger and consolidation as the only option. The most radical approach is to consolidate all research/4-year schools under a single administrative umbrella to create a ND ‘MegaU’. This would eliminate program redundancy and – most importantly – significantly cull upper-administrative financial burden across the board.

For athletics, you’re then in the position to invest/grow ND’s 2 successful D1 brands – Bison Football and Sioux Hockey (sorry, but I grew up playing hockey in the great state of MN and this is what everyone I know calls them). In fact, the two programs could then benefit from each other, with the long-term potential for FB- and IH-only P5 invites and the eventual consolidation of the rest under a single D1 brand of at least G5 status.

So there you go … a radical plan for ND higher-ed that refocuses competition externally and saves vast amounts of $$. Plus it actually makes sense, so I guess that means it will never happen.

#rantover

[DakotaOkie]

ND has 760k people in a country of 326M on a planet with 7.53B. If you haven’t been paying attention, the world outside ND isn't exactly trending in a 'nice' direction. Infighting over 11 schools is a remarkably stupid position for ND to put itself in. The history of the current model shows how misplaced it is and anyone who defends it today likely has a hidden agenda.

NDSU has already won the 'best research university of ND' award (I could throw out numbers all day long that prove this) so just accept it and move on. Trying to internally undermine NDSU’s success (e.g., through politics) hurts ND as a whole and shouldn’t be tolerated, and I don't believe it will be any longer.

That leaves merger and consolidation as the only option. The most radical approach is to consolidate all research/4-year schools under a single administrative umbrella to create a ND ‘MegaU’. This would eliminate program redundancy and – most importantly – significantly cull upper-administrative financial burden across the board.

For athletics, you’re then in the position to invest/grow ND’s 2 successful D1 brands – Bison Football and Sioux Hockey (sorry, but I grew up playing hockey in the great state of MN and this is what everyone I know calls them). In fact, the two programs could then benefit from each other, with the long-term potential for FB- and IH-only P5 invites and the eventual consolidation of the rest under a single D1 brand of at least G5 status.

So there you go … a radical plan for ND higher-ed that refocuses competition externally and saves vast amounts of $$. Plus it actually makes sense, so I guess that means it will never happen.

#rantover
I seem to recall this sort of proposal being tossed around in the early 80's or thereabouts. The only catch was all of the schools that survived would be called the "University of North Dakota - city name here". Everyone on this board knows how far that proposal flew (or would fly) in Fargo.
Whether or not there are too many schools is certainly a debatable topic, but there is a need for community and technical colleges in every state including ND. Call them universities or what not, places like Wahpeton, Lake Region, Dickenson, Minot, etc all serve a student clientele not necessarily well served by the universities of eastern North Dakota.

[bisonaudit]

I read somewhere that something like 3/4 of online students live within 100 miles of the institution they’re taking courses from and at least occasionally receive in person services on campus. So, even with a radical reimagining of higher education perhaps we’re looking at at least 6 physical centers for learning?

This is leaving aside the threat from the significant contingent in the legislature that would rather have no plublic instutions of higher education.

[Bison bison]

I like to play the exercise- if we designed a system from the ground up what would it look like? How would it compare to our current system.

I would only have one residential campus, maybe two, certainly not 11.

All of these schools think their Harvard or mit if they just got more funding from the state.

If you're going to be studying fulltime all week you can drive four hours to campus.

[bisonaudit]

I like to play the exercise- if we designed a system from the ground up what would it look like? How would it compare to our current system.

I would only have one residential campus, maybe two, certainly not 11.

All of these schools think their Harvard or mit if they just got more funding from the state.

If you're going to be studying fulltime all week you can drive four hours to campus.

Yeah, I don't think any of them think that but you're not wrong on the residential campus front, I don't think.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I seem to recall this sort of proposal being tossed around in the early 80's or thereabouts. The only catch was all of the schools that survived would be called the "University of North Dakota - city name here". Everyone on this board knows how far that proposal flew (or would fly) in Fargo.
Whether or not there are too many schools is certainly a debatable topic, but there is a need for community and technical colleges in every state including ND. Call them universities or what not, places like Wahpeton, Lake Region, Dickenson, Minot, etc all serve a student clientele not necessarily well served by the universities of eastern North Dakota.

They already have names – NDSU campus of NDUS, UND campus of NDUS, … and put all the techs and 2-years under a single but different umbrella. Instead they lumped them with the 4-years and made 1 for each flagship. Why you ask? Because UND keeps thinking they can use legislation to somehow 'catch' NDSU (whatever that means, since NDSU doesn’t have a med school, law school or hockey) and NDSU has to keep fighting to maintain what it’s achieved.

It’s absolutely insane, people. So just end this nonsense and make them all part of the same thing, since they already really are anyways. You can still have physical centers as pieces of a bigger institution, and then you actually would be a little bit closer to the better schools in the country.

And after what happened this week I have serious doubts that ND can support 2 D1 WBB programs (and here comes Augie) …

[oldmantutters]

Tear them all down and build a new super campus in McClusky. As far as I can tell that is the town closest to the geographical center of ND. Problem solved.

[scottietohottie]

Tear them all down and build a new super campus in McClusky. As far as I can tell that is the town closest to the geographical center of ND. Problem solved.

Yes with a dome to play all the high school championships in.

[Hammerhead]

The Roman Catholic church expected North Dakota to be as populated as a state like Pennsylvania and originally created a Diocese of Jamestown. Bishop Shanley moved the cathedral to Fargo when it was evident that Fargo would be focal point of eastern North Dakota and leave Jamestown in the dust.


I like to play the exercise- if we designed a system from the ground up what would it look like? How would it compare to our current system.

I would only have one residential campus, maybe two, certainly not 11.

All of these schools think their Harvard or mit if they just got more funding from the state.

If you're going to be studying fulltime all week you can drive four hours to campus.

[CyPanth]

I like to play the exercise- if we designed a system from the ground up what would it look like? How would it compare to our current system.

I would only have one residential campus, maybe two, certainly not 11.

All of these schools think their Harvard or mit if they just got more funding from the state.

If you're going to be studying fulltime all week you can drive four hours to campus.


Build a system around learning experiences in local communities and workplaces. Higher education institutions should be more like the idealized extension programs sending experts into communities and workplaces to bring knowledge and development opportunities. Most graduates say that they didn't really learn their field until they entered their professions.

No need to isolate students on a campus except to extend adolescence. We have this site for that!

[Vet70]

Build a system around learning experiences in local communities and workplaces. Higher education institutions should be more like the idealized extension programs sending experts into communities and workplaces to bring knowledge and development opportunities. Most graduates say that they didn't really learn their field until they entered their professions.

No need to isolate students on a campus except to extend adolescence. We have this site for that!

If I understand your post you are arguing for a technical school approach. While that may work in a number of fields IMO it is not applicable to all areas. The puirpose of a liberal arts education is to develop critical thinking skills and not to teach each and every nuance of a particular field. A good example of this is Pre-law or Pre-med programs.

[Bison bison]

The Roman Catholic church expected North Dakota to be as populated as a state like Pennsylvania and originally created a Diocese of Jamestown. Bishop Shanley moved the cathedral to Fargo when it was evident that Fargo would be focal point of eastern North Dakota and leave Jamestown in the dust.

And they had to split off half the state because the Irish and Germans couldn't get along.

Man, I hate the Irish.

[Vet70]

And they had to split off half the state because the Irish and Germans couldn't get along.

Man, I hate the Irish.

The French are the worst.

[Rockbear99]

Check enrollment figures for Devils Lake. The majority of students are online only. What's the purpose of a campus?
Police academy, wind technology, nursing, auto program, aircraft simulator repair. The dorms are full of students. Lake region has been doing more with less funding for many years. They are a quality school.

[CyPanth]

If I understand your post you are arguing for a technical school approach. While that may work in a number of fields IMO it is not applicable to all areas. The puirpose of a liberal arts education is to develop critical thinking skills and not to teach each and every nuance of a particular field. A good example of this is Pre-law or Pre-med programs.

I'm not convinced that the liberal arts ideal is actually happening on very many campuses. Probably more at small liberal arts colleges than major state universities. I think education in the liberal arts could be connected to in-service experiences with pre-law and pre-med programs too. The big university campus has become far too much of a place for extended adolescence.

[Hammersmith]

I like to play the exercise- if we designed a system from the ground up what would it look like? How would it compare to our current system.

I would only have one residential campus, maybe two, certainly not 11.

All of these schools think their Harvard or mit if they just got more funding from the state.

If you're going to be studying fulltime all week you can drive four hours to campus.

My exercise isn't ground up, but it tries to be a reworking of the whole thing given the existing infrastructure. I believe in specialization; pick a narrow field, but be damned good at it.

NDSU & UND stay mostly the same. Maybe trade some programs in a perfect world(say swap the NDSU health science programs for all of UND's engineering programs, or something like that). Strip most(90%) of the grad programs from the other campuses.

Dickinson becomes a liberal arts campus with an emphasis in natural & earth history and natural resources. Geology, anthropology, paleontology, etc. plus maybe a 4-year petroleum engineering program or the like. Make use of the nearby fossil beds, oil/coal/nat gas, and the only decently interesting geology in the state. Minot would be a duplicate of Dickinson except with a different focus. Maybe something in the humanities. Languages, poli-sci & international relations, perhaps. Maybe something more useful. Perfect world might be the law school, but I doubt that would fly.

Bismarck and Valley City become strictly 2-year prep schools for students that wouldn't do well going straight to the big 4-year schools, esp. NDSU & UND. High rigor, but small class sizes and more comprehensive student support. The two schools would work closely with the 4-year schools so that students would transition seamlessly.

Williston and Wahpeton become hard-core trade schools and drop the 'trying to be everything' mindset. Both have the same core sets of programs, but Williston focuses on natural resource tech(partners with Dickinson), while Wahpeton focuses on high-tech(partners with NDSU). I don't know what to do about NDSCS-Fargo. Leave it alone, fold it into NDSU, spin it off into a separate campus? All options have issues.

Devil's Lake becomes an outpost for limited classes where online just doesn't cut it. Four to nine week classes taught by instructors from other campuses. I'm thinking a limited welding class held every couple years, or a practical intro to health careers. Stuff like that where 75% of the coursework could be done online, but sometimes you just need to get your hands dirty. Maybe a dozen permanent staff, plus visiting instructors. One small dorm(not full time), one regular classroom building, one trades classroom building, one support building.

Bottineau becomes purely an outpost for NDSU forestry students to do short-term learning in ND's only forest. One dorm(only for a few weeks a year), one classroom building, maybe one building to handle everything else. Classes normally held during the summer for 4-6 weeks, and single weeks during winter break and spring break. Maybe a half dozen permanent staff to maintain the buildings and grounds.

Mayville is closed completely. It's just too close to NDSU, UND, VCSU & LRSC.



There, a plan that I'm sure has tons of holes and is completely impractical. You probably notice there are pairs of almost everything. Perfect world would be one of each. The pairs are a nod to the political reality of east vs west in the state.

[StL Bison Fan]

My exercise isn't ground up, but it tries to be a reworking of the whole thing given the existing infrastructure. I believe in specialization; pick a narrow field, but be damned good at it.

NDSU & UND stay mostly the same. Maybe trade some programs in a perfect world(say swap the NDSU health science programs for all of UND's engineering programs, or something like that). Strip most(90%) of the grad programs from the other campuses.

Dickinson becomes a liberal arts campus with an emphasis in natural & earth history and natural resources. Geology, anthropology, paleontology, etc. plus maybe a 4-year petroleum engineering program or the like. Make use of the nearby fossil beds, oil/coal/nat gas, and the only decently interesting geology in the state. Minot would be a duplicate of Dickinson except with a different focus. Maybe something in the humanities. Languages, poli-sci & international relations, perhaps. Maybe something more useful. Perfect world might be the law school, but I doubt that would fly.

Bismarck and Valley City become strictly 2-year prep schools for students that wouldn't do well going straight to the big 4-year schools, esp. NDSU & UND. High rigor, but small class sizes and more comprehensive student support. The two schools would work closely with the 4-year schools so that students would transition seamlessly.

Williston and Wahpeton become hard-core trade schools and drop the 'trying to be everything' mindset. Both have the same core sets of programs, but Williston focuses on natural resource tech(partners with Dickinson), while Wahpeton focuses on high-tech(partners with NDSU). I don't know what to do about NDSCS-Fargo. Leave it alone, fold it into NDSU, spin it off into a separate campus? All options have issues.

Devil's Lake becomes an outpost for limited classes where online just doesn't cut it. Four to nine week classes taught by instructors from other campuses. I'm thinking a limited welding class held every couple years, or a practical intro to health careers. Stuff like that where 75% of the coursework could be done online, but sometimes you just need to get your hands dirty. Maybe a dozen permanent staff, plus visiting instructors. One small dorm(not full time), one regular classroom building, one trades classroom building, one support building.

Bottineau becomes purely an outpost for NDSU forestry students to do short-term learning in ND's only forest. One dorm(only for a few weeks a year), one classroom building, maybe one building to handle everything else. Classes normally held during the summer for 4-6 weeks, and single weeks during winter break and spring break. Maybe a half dozen permanent staff to maintain the buildings and grounds.

Mayville is closed completely. It's just too close to NDSU, UND, VCSU & LRSC.



There, a plan that I'm sure has tons of holes and is completely impractical. You probably notice there are pairs of almost everything. Perfect world would be one of each. The pairs are a nod to the political reality of east vs west in the state.

Mayville really could close or if they want to fund it become private. When we visited the schoool, some classes had one student.
Valley City should stay a four year teachers college. Wahpeton is a gem and serves a great purpose.
Bottineau can close. It’s not NDs only forest but forestry is shifting to community forestry. Rural forestry is also becoming more specialized. That requires a four year degree.
Tree services and some cities hire less than four but regiures certifications. The forestry people that I know that went there and went on to get the four year at ndsu are retiring this year. The only guy I hire without being a certified is the guy who cuts down the trees. Don’t destroy anything or kill anyone and we are good.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

If you were to build it from the ground up using 21st century logic, you’d have one research flagship and you’d put it in Fargo because it’s the biggest city closest to major industry (TC/Chicago). Under the same administrative umbrella, you’d put 4-years in Bismarck, Minot and GF.

Under a separate administrative heading, you'd put Tech/CC hubs in Williston, Dickinson and Wahpeton.

Then run it all from Bismarck on the 2 tiers. ND’s tech/ag growth will come from the east and resource extraction is based in the west. You have to accommodate this.

But hindsight is 20/20, as they say …

[nodak651]

If you were to build it from the ground up using 21st century logic, you’d have one research flagship and you’d put it in Fargo because it’s the biggest city closest to major industry (TC/Chicago). Under the same administrative umbrella, you’d put 4-years in Bismarck, Minot and GF.

Under a separate administrative heading, you'd put Tech/CC hubs in Williston, Dickinson and Wahpeton.

Then run it all from Bismarck on the 2 tiers. ND’s tech/ag growth will come from the east and resource extraction is based in the west. You have to accommodate this.

But hindsight is 20/20, as they say …

I'm a UND grad but I'd say flagship in Bismark. Grand Forks wouldn't need a 4 year being so close to Fargo. I think geography is important, but the location also depends on your goals. Attendance would prob be higher in Fargo, but I think a more centrally located flagship would better serve the state, as there would be easier access (distance) in more areas of the state.

[Vet70]

I'm a UND grad but I'd say flagship in Bismark. Grand Forks wouldn't need a 4 year being so close to Fargo. I think geography is important, but the location also depends on your goals. Attendance would prob be higher in Fargo, but I think a more centrally located flagship would better serve the state, as there would be easier access (distance) in more areas of the state.

Serving more people is more important. Worrying about the proximity of higher education to more locations and ease of access is what created this mess in the first place.

[nodak651]

Serving more people is more important. Worrying about the proximity of higher education to more locations and ease of access is what created this mess in the first place.

Which is more important, more people in general or more North Dakotans?

[Vet70]

Which is more important, more people in general or more North Dakotans?

False choice. Where are the other North Dakotans going to go? You would still have 4-year schools in Bismarck and Minot.

[Bison 4 Life]

Serving more people is more important. Worrying about the proximity of higher education to more locations and ease of access is what created this mess in the first place.

This. Very few "flagship" universities, at least in the places I've been, have been in the most geographically convenient place for everybody. Ohio State is likely best example. Modern transportation has all but eliminated this problem.

Go straight down I-29 and you'll see nearly every university on the eastern quarter of the state, closer to population centers.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I'm a UND grad but I'd say flagship in Bismark. Grand Forks wouldn't need a 4 year being so close to Fargo. I think geography is important, but the location also depends on your goals. Attendance would prob be higher in Fargo, but I think a more centrally located flagship would better serve the state, as there would be easier access (distance) in more areas of the state.

I get where you’re coming from and it does SEEM fairer, but efficiency and ease of access are more important. You’re basically selling a product/products to the tech, industry and commerce centers immediately east of ND, as well as using lots of resources from the same place, including students.

Since you’d run it from Bismarck, you just have to spin it the right way to make it fair. Plus Fargo is bigger and being closer to Mpls it would be easier to recruit. I personally find Bismarck to be a beautiful place/setting, but it is a bit isolated geographically.

If you think of ND higher ed as a business – as I think you should – then limiting it to just ND students doesn't make sense. Do you want ND to grow? Do you want regional kids, from say NW MN to come work in Fargo? To me that’s just common sense, but maybe people out west don't want growth.

Plus you know that if they had put UND in Fargo you'd be all over it ...

[Vet70]

Bismarck had their chance. The story goes that they had their choice between the penitentiary and University and decided on the better class of clientele.

[StL Bison Fan]

This has been an excellent discussion.
I will guarantee this will not be the case in Bismarck.
They will not allow any school to be closed or changed. I get it. It is the lifeblood of some of these communities

[Hammerhead]

That might have been true in the old days. My mom is Irish and my dad is German. Even in the late 1950s, my dad lived with with a co-worker at the V.A. hospital and they have been friends since then. His mom was born in Norway and could not understand how her son could like a German after what happened in WWII. My dad's dad left Germany for Canada in the middle of WWI.



And they had to split off half the state because the Irish and Germans couldn't get along.

Man, I hate the Irish.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

This has been an excellent discussion.
I will guarantee this will not be the case in Bismarck.

Over 100 views just today so who knows

[Bison bison]

The big university campus has become far too much of a place for extended adolescence.

Disagree.

It's extended adolescence for fools regardless of where you go.

Borrowing large sums of money that you will not be able to repay - foolish.

Doesn't matter if you're spending it on tacos or tuition. Stupid.


There are many, many responsible people aged 17+ who do great at university, because they take it seriously.

[Mr Meaty]

Disagree.

It's extended adolescence for fools regardless of where you go. True statement

Borrowing large sums of money that you will not be able to repay - foolish. Your house loan will be bigger and you will borrow more for vehicle in your lifetime but can pay those back. I never get that agreement it can not be paid back.

Doesn't matter if you're spending it on tacos or tuition. Stupid. Wrong, tacos financed over loan time stupid, Tuition over an equal time as tacos way better.


There are many, many responsible people aged 17+ who do great at university, because they take it seriously. FIFY
This is true as well


You get out of your college education what you put into it.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I just saw this on SS and it strikes me as relevant (and no, I’m not Milo, but I do find his argument to be rational).

NDSU - $27M athletic budget with 29 % allocated (no hockey)
UND - $28M athletic budget with 47 % allocated (with hockey)

Using the above numbers, a UND FB fan is basically saying 'The (UND) budget is plenty big to be competitive in multiple sports’ as an argument for why UND should expect to be competitive in both FB and MIH (never mind that the numbers above leave just $1M for MIH compared to a comparable FB-only budget at NDSU).

This suggests that some fans up there expect to fund both MIH and FB at competitive levels by getting an even larger amount of their athletic $$ from the state (as opposed to generating it themselves). Am I reading that correctly?

Is that justifiable/fair? Since so many people are looking at this thread, perhaps they could log in and comment. I think this is worthy of a rational discussion, especially since it relates to how ND allocates funds for higher education.

No smack, just rational discussion.

[nodak651]

I just saw this on SS and it strikes me as relevant (and no, I’m not Milo, but I do find his argument to be rational).

NDSU - $27M athletic budget with 29 % allocated (no hockey)
UND - $28M athletic budget with 47 % allocated (with hockey)

'The (UND) budget is plenty big to be competitive in multiple sports’ as an argument for why UND should expect to be competitive in both FB and MIH (never mind that it just leaves $1M for MIH if no additional $$ comes from the state).

This suggests that some of the fans up there expect to fund both MIH and FB at competitive levels by getting an even larger (and more disproportionate, wrt NDSU) amount of their athletic $$ from the state (as opposed to generating it themselves). Am I reading that correctly?

Is that justifiable/fair? Since so many people are looking at this thread, perhaps they could log in and comment. I think this is worthy of a rational discussion, especially since it relates to how ND allocates funds for higher education.

Please no smack, just rational discussion.


What's somewhat frustrating when trying to analyze the finances of each AD is the way the Ralph is run. For instance, they have to take in at least a couple million in concession sales each year, but this revenue doesn't get allocated to the UND AD. I believe the same is true for Ralph advertising and suite sales (maybe), even though the Ralph is a non profit where its sole mission is to benefit UND athletics. The Ralph also takes half of UND's ticket revenue in all sports, including football. Without seeing more in depth financials from the Ralph, it's hard to say how much revenue and expenses the UND AD really generates.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Without seeing more in depth financials from the Ralph, it's hard to say how much revenue and expenses the UND AD really generates.

It would be interesting to see that.

[bisonaudit]

They probably have to file a 990 so at least some the Ralph’s financial results should be public.

[nodak651]

They probably have to file a 990 so at least some the Ralph’s financial results should be public.
That is correct. There are two other non profits that are involved with the management of the Ralph and money gets transferred back and forth so it's difficult to track. I also think their reporting period is sometime in the spring, after spring semester, and the Athletic Department reports to the NCAA are based on the calendar year.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

https://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/columns/4569424-mike-jacobs-big-change-college-board-less-likely

Not looking good for reform, at least according to MJ, but an interesting take at the end (with obvious implications). I still view some type of consolidation as inevitable.

[AKBison]

My exercise isn't ground up, but it tries to be a reworking of the whole thing given the existing infrastructure. I believe in specialization; pick a narrow field, but be damned good at it.

NDSU & UND stay mostly the same. Maybe trade some programs in a perfect world(say swap the NDSU health science programs for all of UND's engineering programs, or something like that). Strip most(90%) of the grad programs from the other campuses.

Dickinson becomes a liberal arts campus with an emphasis in natural & earth history and natural resources. Geology, anthropology, paleontology, etc. plus maybe a 4-year petroleum engineering program or the like. Make use of the nearby fossil beds, oil/coal/nat gas, and the only decently interesting geology in the state. Minot would be a duplicate of Dickinson except with a different focus. Maybe something in the humanities. Languages, poli-sci & international relations, perhaps. Maybe something more useful. Perfect world might be the law school, but I doubt that would fly.

Bismarck and Valley City become strictly 2-year prep schools for students that wouldn't do well going straight to the big 4-year schools, esp. NDSU & UND. High rigor, but small class sizes and more comprehensive student support. The two schools would work closely with the 4-year schools so that students would transition seamlessly.

Williston and Wahpeton become hard-core trade schools and drop the 'trying to be everything' mindset. Both have the same core sets of programs, but Williston focuses on natural resource tech(partners with Dickinson), while Wahpeton focuses on high-tech(partners with NDSU). I don't know what to do about NDSCS-Fargo. Leave it alone, fold it into NDSU, spin it off into a separate campus? All options have issues.

Devil's Lake becomes an outpost for limited classes where online just doesn't cut it. Four to nine week classes taught by instructors from other campuses. I'm thinking a limited welding class held every couple years, or a practical intro to health careers. Stuff like that where 75% of the coursework could be done online, but sometimes you just need to get your hands dirty. Maybe a dozen permanent staff, plus visiting instructors. One small dorm(not full time), one regular classroom building, one trades classroom building, one support building.

Bottineau becomes purely an outpost for NDSU forestry students to do short-term learning in ND's only forest. One dorm(only for a few weeks a year), one classroom building, maybe one building to handle everything else. Classes normally held during the summer for 4-6 weeks, and single weeks during winter break and spring break. Maybe a half dozen permanent staff to maintain the buildings and grounds.

Mayville is closed completely. It's just too close to NDSU, UND, VCSU & LRSC.



There, a plan that I'm sure has tons of holes and is completely impractical. You probably notice there are pairs of almost everything. Perfect world would be one of each. The pairs are a nod to the political reality of east vs west in the state.

I would actually take this a step further...

Encourage Minot to privatize and offer incentives and debt reduction to do so. UJ is thriving and thats a great model for them to follow.

I like your idea with Bott, but I would expand the forestry and wildlife offerings...or we could just close it.

Close Mayville

I like your idea with Dickinson state. In fact the state should double down there and create a "Tech" system with Williston, BSC, and Whap as the feeder schools. Williston would be pissed but let's face it, that towns a shithole and would be a terrible place to have the college experience. Rename Dickinson to North Dakota Tech and spend the money saved from the reorganization to turn what is currently a laughing stock into a shining jewel with a new mission. A Presidential Library on campus would be a great start. The other option would be to go all in NDSCS as the head of the Tech system. It's a great school as is and wouldn't need it's image rebuilt.


Your spot on with Lake Region.

Valley City is a tough one but they either go private or except a new mission.

[Hammersmith]

Not sure what the goal of this is but it could make it easier for the elimination or a downgrade to certain western 4 year colleges.


https://www.inforum.com/news/education/953634-Resolution-would-eliminate-names-locations-of-universities-colleges-from-ND-Constitution

Failed in the senate. By a lot. 41-3. The senate version also only included NDSCS and Bott. The idea of the amendment was to leave all the 4-year schools in the constitution and only remove the 2-year schools that were listed.

https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/992590-Resolution-to-remove-university-names-from-North-Dakota-Constitution-fails-in-Senate

[Vet70]

doa........


Failed in the senate. By a lot. 41-3. The senate version also only included NDSCS and Bott. The idea of the amendment was to leave all the 4-year schools in the constitution and only remove the 2-year schools that were listed.

https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/992590-Resolution-to-remove-university-names-from-North-Dakota-Constitution-fails-in-Senate

Very predictable.