2013 vs 2018

[Professor Chaos]

Not to disrespect the great Bison teams of the 80s since it's really tough to compare teams that played 30 years apart from each other but now that it's the offseason we might as well debate what team was better between the now two gold standards for Bison football in the D1 era. Below I listed how they all broke down statistically compared to each other:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7840/39724381393_4810255926_b.jpg

The stats say kind of what you'd expect if you go through position group by position group and compare the two teams. 2013 had the better defense and 2018 has the better offence but both the 2013 offense and the 2018 defense were still dominant. I think the 2013 team probably had better special teams as well.

I think most would assume the 2013 team had a stronger SOS due to the K-State game but I think it's pretty comparable. I think the MVFC as a conference was better in 2018 than it was in 2013 and the 2018 team definitely had tougher playoff opponents facing 3 seeded teams whereas the 2013 only faced one (and that was the #7 seed).

I believe I saw someone mention that Sagarin had the 2013 team rated about 3 points higher but it's kind of tough to compare that season over season since it's really only a measure of how good the team is in relation to the rest of college football.

I think in the end I still have to lean towards the 2013 team being a hair better. Just the fact that we can debate the merits of two 15-0 teams in the last 5 years at our school is bonkers but it's a long 233 days until Target Field...

[MNLonghorn10]

2013 to me was better based off of the secondary alone. 2018s DL had a slight edge over 2013 despite NFL talent on that. Maybe I'd give pass catchers in 2013 the slight edge despite shepherd being the best of the crew



Still more NFL players from the 2013 team IMO. The kstate win was closer than what the scoreboard indicated. They kicked the shit out of them and left a lot of points off of the board.

[IzzyFlexion]

2 "wows" for me at first glance:

Only 12 sacks allowed by this year's team.

And....opponents only had 24 possessions in the Red Zone.

Good compilation, Chaos.

[MNLonghorn10]

I don't think billy turner, the best OLman in program history allowed a sack in 2013. That includes blocking 2 kstaters with one arm each. He was such a bad ass

[MankatoBison]

Holy shit these teams are/were good.

I dont even know how to compare the teams... If this were NCAA FCS 2018 and they were doing team rankings... what would they be??

2013 2018
94 OFFENSE 97
98 DEFENSE 95
94 SP. TEAMS 84
95.9 OVERALL 95.4

These are completely arbitrary numbers I've plucked out of thin air, but I weighted them with offense and defense equal as 47.5% of the overall rating and then SPTeams as 5% of the the overall.

What "Madden Ratings" would you give these teams?

[runtheoption]

2013 to me was better based off of the secondary alone. 2018s DL had a slight edge over 2013 despite NFL talent on that. Maybe I'd give pass catchers in 2013 the slight edge despite shepherd being the best of the crew



Still more NFL players from the 2013 team IMO. The kstate win was closer than what the scoreboard indicated. They kicked the shit out of them and left a lot of points off of the board.
You definitely meant to say the K-State win was not as close as the scoreboard indicated.

[Vet70]

Too-close-to-call.

[noryan34]

I posted this on AGS as well. But the turnover margin for 2018 was way ahead of 2013. Like +14 better and 2018 was soo good in the red zone and fourth down. I’d have to say 2018 was better overall

[DM05]

I don't think billy turner, the best OLman in program history allowed a sack in 2013. That includes blocking 2 kstaters with one arm each. He was such a bad ass

I hadn't noticed that until I saw a replay a while back: watch them blitz on third and 7 and not get home. 4:12 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMvobbZlGCI&t=10s

That whole drive was incredible; no panic at all on NDSU, Kansas State fans looking more and more worried. Jensen in complete control.

2018 O line was very good, but look at 2013: Turner-Zack Johnson-Colville-Gimmestad-Haeg. NFL tackles with a very underrated interior. Sad that injuries ended Colville's career early.

[ndsubison1]

I think 2013 was better as an overall team but 18 does have advantages in some areas. The Defensive line this year was insane. A more dynamic offense with a very athletic QB. If theres one individual on each side I'm taking it's probably Stick and Cox.

QB: 18
RB: 13
WR: 13
TE: 18
FB: 13
OL: 13

DL: 18
LB: 13
CB: 13
S: 13

Special Teams: 13
Coaching: 13

[IBleedYellow]

Damn it's great to be a Bison.

[BadlandsBison]

How many undefeated champs have there been in the subdivision?

[MNLonghorn10]

You definitely meant to say the K-State win was not as close as the scoreboard indicated.Yea my bad

[cbline]

If these two teams played each other, they would go "toe to toe," and it would be "a whale of a game."

[Professor Chaos]

I think 2013 was better as an overall team but 18 does have advantages in some areas. The Defensive line this year was insane. A more dynamic offense with a very athletic QB. If theres one individual on each side I'm taking it's probably Stick and Cox.

QB: 18
RB: 13
WR: 13
TE: 13
FB: 13
OL: 13

DL: 18
LB: 13
CB: 13
S: 13

Special Teams: 13
Coaching: 13
I think I'd take 18 for RBs, TEs, and coaching but other than that I agree.

[Vet70]

How many undefeated champs have there been in the subdivision?

Five---any guess who has two of them?

[Professor Chaos]

How many undefeated champs have there been in the subdivision?
Five or six*.

1982 Eastern Kentucky (13-0)
1989 Georgia Southern (15-0)
*1994 Youngstown St (14-0-1)
1996 Marshall (15-0)
2013 NDSU (15-0)
2018 NDSU (15-0)

[Vet70]

Five or six*.

1982 Eastern Kentucky (13-0)
1989 Georgia Southern (15-0)
*1994 Youngstown St (14-0-1)
1996 Marshall (15-0)
2013 NDSU (15-0)
2018 NDSU (15-0)

That is what I get for paying attention to the TV announcers.

[Bison20]

I think I'd take 18 for RBs, TEs, and coaching but other than that I agree.

I agree, tough not to take our RBS and Tes. We are loaded at those positions.

[2011BisonAlumni]

I think 2013 was better as an overall team but 18 does have advantages in some areas. The Defensive line this year was insane. A more dynamic offense with a very athletic QB. If theres one individual on each side I'm taking it's probably Stick and Cox.

QB: 18
RB: 13
WR: 13
TE: 13
FB: 13
OL: 13

DL: 18
LB: 13
CB: 13
S: 13

Special Teams: 13
Coaching: 13

Disagree strongly about safeties.

Heagle and Dudzik and legends, but Robbie Grimsley is a two time all American, finished second in school history in both tackles and interceptions. James Hendricks was all MVFC second team this year.

Also disagree about tight ends. 2013 had Kevin Vaadeland as an all MVFC second team player and 2018 had Ben Ellefson. Kevin was very good, but Ben is a far superior blocker.

[Gully]

2018 is a bit deeper and 2013 had more high end talent. 2013 better defense, 2018 better offense.

Overall, I'll take 2013 by a field goal but my only justification is how confident I felt during the playoff games each year. I thought there was no way 2013 would lose. I didn't feel the same this year.....I was worried about SDSU, but I'm glad to say that concern was misplaced.

On the other hand, 2013 very nearly lost to UNI, needing a dramatic comeback, but I'll still stick with 2013.

[reformedUNDfan]

Disagree strongly about safeties.

Heagle and Dudzik and legends, but Robbie Grimsley is a two time all American, finished second in school history in both tackles and interceptions. James Hendricks was all MVFC second team this year.

Also disagree about tight ends. 2013 had Kevin Vaadeland as an all MVFC second team player and 2018 had Ben Ellefson. Kevin was very good, but Ben is a far superior blocker.

Dudzik was blazing fast at any level of football. It still bogles my mind that he never got a shot.

I think the 2018 OL was better. We're still a year or two from getting a solid grasp on how good volson, johnson and radunz are at tackle, and I think we can say that Volson was the better center.

QB: 18
RB: 18
WR: 13
TE: 18
FB: 13
OL: 18

DL: 18
LB: 18
CB: 13
S: 13

Special Teams: 13
Coaching: 18

[IzzyFlexion]

Some additional tidbits about the 2013 Kansas State game:

2 drives before "The Drive", NDSU marched 75 yards in 12 plays (6 minutes and 15 second drive)

6 rushes and 6 passes (6 for 6).

[ndsubison1]

I think I'd take 18 for RBs, TEs, and coaching but other than that I agree.

The more I look at it the more I like the depth of the 18 TE compared to 13. Vaadeland was very good though. RB Ill stick with 13 cuz of the combination of Crockett/Ojuri/Lang

[Bison20]

Hard to say which team is better but 2018 team wasnt even challenged outside of the sdsu game. Then you look at some of the guys on the 2013 team like cb and tackles and say wow. Allow the tackles this year are pretty good to with johnson radunz and Colson. Both great teams.

[2011BisonAlumni]

I agree, tough not to take our RBS and Tes. We are loaded at those positions.

I’d take the combination of Ojuri and Crockett all day over the 2018 backs due to their durability alone.

No offense to the 2018 running backs or Chad Stark/Doug Loyd combo, but the 2013 running back game was the strongest it has ever been.

Crockett ended his career second in all time rushing yards and Ojuri third.

[Bisonator98]

The 2013 team gets the edge IMO. Defense and special teams were better on that team than 2018.

[AKBison]

The 2013 would have finished that 10 minute plus drive against EWU in the Natty. There was just a bit more nastiness and swagger on that team IMO.

[bisontown]

The 2013 would have finished that 10 minute plus drive against EWU in the Natty. There was just a bit more nastiness and swagger on that team IMO.

And if they didn't finish the drive, they sure as hell wouldn't have let EWU drive down and score a TD!!

[ndsubison1]

Disagree strongly about safeties.

Heagle and Dudzik and legends, but Robbie Grimsley is a two time all American, finished second in school history in both tackles and interceptions. James Hendricks was all MVFC second team this year.

Also disagree about tight ends. 2013 had Kevin Vaadeland as an all MVFC second team player and 2018 had Ben Ellefson. Kevin was very good, but Ben is a far superior blocker.

Also Shepherd. Probably wouldve started for this years team, but this can be debated til the end of time.

[stevdock]

The 2013 defense played at such a high level that I don't even know how many points our 2018 offense would score against them. 2018 passing game was quite questionable outside of Shep. If you put Marcus on him and have him shadow him the entire game who is Easton throwing to? I think the only way 2018 would score is to do a whole lot of QB power, QB sweep, etc.

2013 offense I think would have a lot more success against the 2018 defense.

Both teams are great but I think 2013 wins by a couple of TD's at least.

[MrSnuffleupagus]

To me, the most recent (2018) Bison team is better. I base this on one fact alone; the level of playing in the FCS is substantially better in 2018 than it was in 2013. Teams are literally copying and designing their programs to mimic NDSU. Look at JMU, that was Houston's whole point.

Its a lot harder to do what they did with that big of a target on their back for all these years.

[Vet70]

I’d take the combination of Ojuri and Crockett all day over the 2018 backs due to their durability alone.

No offense to the 2018 running backs or Chad Stark/Doug Loyd combo, but the 2013 running back game was the strongest it has ever been.

Crockett ended his career second in all time rushing yards and Ojuri third.

A minor correction---Ojuri (3694) finished 4th behind Kyle Steffes (3952).

This is why comparisons between the 2 teams are hard IMO. Dunn finished 8th but was only 666 yards behind Sam. Dunn and Anderson both had over 2,000 career yards, split a lot more carries with other backs and also had a QB that ran for 2523 yards (Jensen had 1240). Crockett and Ojuri finished 3rd and 4th in attempts. All in all, it seems to me just isolating individual positions for comparisons is tough.

[Mr Meaty]

I would have to go with the 2013 team. After the K-state win I did not think that team would lose a game. I felt comfortable at every game just wondering how much they would win by.

[Bisonator98]

To me, the most recent (2018) Bison team is better. I base this on one fact alone; the level of playing in the FCS is substantially better in 2018 than it was in 2013. Teams are literally copying and designing their programs to mimic NDSU. Look at JMU, that was Houston's whole point.

Its a lot harder to do what they did with that big of a target on their back for all these years.

I don't know if I agree with that, IMO the FCS was a bit down this season. Even the MVFC was not as good in 2018.

[wagsabison]

The 2013 would have finished that 10 minute plus drive against EWU in the Natty. There was just a bit more nastiness and swagger on that team IMO.

I kind of agree with that. For whatever reason they do seem like they had a bit more swagger. 13’ felt like we’re going to wear you down and by the 4th it’s over. Of course this year it seems like we never had a chance to wear teams down because a good chunk of games were over by half.


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[NDSUstudent]

2013...The FCS was better, the MVFC was better, that team just destroyed everything in its wake in the playoffs and they had a legit win against an FBS team.

I wish 2018 had a shot at an FBS team but they didn't, so it is what it is.

[Vet70]

I have to go now and decide which of my two kids I like best.

[Bison 4 Life]

I have to go now and decide which of my two kids I like best.

That's an easy decision for me.

[StL Bison Fan]

I have to go now and decide which of my two kids I like best.

I was thinking the same thing. I’ll never tell

[MNLonghorn10]

I was thinking the same thing. I’ll never tellWell we know who ISN'T your favorite ;-)

[Bison"FANatic"]

The thing that always stuck out to me with 2013 is they did not give up a TD in the 4th quarter till the semifinal game and that was the only one all year in the 4th quarter. It came with 29 seconds left in the game.

One of the other stats that you just shake your head was 2013 gave up 8 punt returns for a total of 21 yards ALL YEAR.

[Vet70]

The thing that always stuck out to me with 2013 is they did not give up a TD in the 4th quarter till the semifinal game and that was the only one all year in the 4th quarter. It came with 29 seconds left in the game.

One of the other stats that you just shake your head was 2013 gave up 8 punt returns for a total of 21 yards ALL YEAR.

Your point doesn't really change but Missouri State also scored a fourth-quarter touchdown and had the extra point blocked. I remember being bummed because it happened very near the end of the game.

[ZHerd]

2013. Better defense and special teams and offense pretty much a wash with both being unstoppable in postseason

[Bison"FANatic"]

Your point doesn't really change but Missouri State also scored a fourth-quarter touchdown and had the extra point blocked. I remember being bummed because it happened very near the end of the game.

Ah yes I didn't remember that one.

[99Bison]

Imho
2013 maxed out its potential

2018 operated at roughly 75% of potential

2013 defense physically very wore out by end of year (4 full years for many guys), it show’d by less big plays made. IMHO 11,12 d was better, like single handedly would win games when offense was poor in games.

2018 had significantly tougher playoff stretch

If they play each other at the end of year? Toss up, 2018 has the head room to win bigger but 2013 was very efficient.

[SoCalBison]

Imho
2013 maxed out its potential

2018 operated at roughly 75% of potential

This. Plus 2018 had the benefit of Coach Messingham's play-calling. At the same time, recognize that both teams were great, but in different ways.

[tjamz]

Well we know who ISN'T your favorite ;-)It's not even really a secret, is it?

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[MrSnuffleupagus]

Well we know who ISN'T your favorite ;-)

The one we put up for adoption.

Screw you, Todd.

[2011BisonAlumni]

EWU was better than Towson, but NDSU emphatically kicked the shit out of Towson in the championship game in 2013, while this year’s team played a B game in the championship game.

[westnodak93bison]

EWU was better than Towson, but NDSU emphatically kicked the shit out of Towson in the championship game in 2013, while this year’s team played a B game in the championship game.And still won by 14 and the ewu coach said they played their asses off

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[Vet70]

And still won by 14 and the ewu coach said they played their asses off

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Ya, I didn't quite get it. I am not sure how the 2013 team clobbering a team worse than EWU shows they were better.

[El_Chapo]

this is NOT a debate.

2013 all the way. beat a Defending Big 12 champ in thier house.

Had a FCS with Georgia Southern and Appalachian State and Coastal Carolina in it.

Had 8 NFL players on the team.

hahaha. the 2019 had a cakewalk schedule and maybe 1 NFL player

[Professor Chaos]

this is NOT a debate.

2013 all the way. beat a Defending Big 12 champ in thier house.

Had a FCS with Georgia Southern and Appalachian State and Coastal Carolina in it.

Had 8 NFL players on the team.

hahaha. the 2019 had a cakewalk schedule and maybe 1 NFL player
I bet you the 2018 team has/had more than 1 NFL player. You name the amount.

[Vet70]

this is NOT a debate.

2013 all the way. beat a Defending Big 12 champ in thier house.

Had a FCS with Georgia Southern and Appalachian State and Coastal Carolina in it.

Had 8 NFL players on the team.

hahaha. the 2019 had a cakewalk schedule and maybe 1 NFL player

It doesn't matter who was in the FCS---of the 3 you named 2013 only played Coastal. Playing Delaware State and Ferris wasn't exactly a challenge. What does 2019's schedule have to do with anything?

[RonMexico]

I would give it to the 2013 squad in a close one just because I think the 2013 team has the better special teams.