2018 Enrollment Numbers

[Hammersmith]

Yuck. I guess it's nice to be bigger than UND again, but this is not the way to do it. I'm sure the numbers will come up a bit by the end of the third week, but still...

Fall 2017 numbers (after 3 weeks)
NDSU: 14,358
UND: 14,406

Fall 2018 numbers (day 1)
NDSU: 13,650
UND: 13,445

http://www.inforum.com/news/education/4489312-ndsu-enrollment-decade-low-preliminary-numbers-show

[HerdBot]

That's a bit surprising. Seems like nationwide, enrollment is dropping but I haven't seen any numbers.

I wouldn't put much stock into 1 school year. State population has been flat. If it drops again next year, it would be concerning. Maybe 14k is the new norm and its leveling off

Who knows it could be a combination of higher standards, increasing tuition, flat population, and declining funding. Or it could just be a fluke.

[roadwarrior]

Periods of high employment puts downward pressure on enrollment.

[Honeybooboo]

State gutting funding does much help IMO

Maybe it doesn't have any effect, but you have to think it does.

[Vet70]

Yuck. I guess it's nice to be bigger than UND again, but this is not the way to do it. I'm sure the numbers will come up a bit by the end of the third week, but still...

Fall 2017 numbers (after 3 weeks)
NDSU: 14,358
UND: 14,406

Fall 2018 numbers (day 1)
NDSU: 13,650
UND: 13,445

http://www.inforum.com/news/education/4489312-ndsu-enrollment-decade-low-preliminary-numbers-show

I'll take bets that when all is said and done UN_ will pass us. Not that they would fudge their numbers.

[HerdBot]

Looking at national numbers, enrollment has been plummeting for 6 straight years. Less high school students and rising costs play a role. State funding is an issue most places.

My big picture theory is the federal government ruined college by guaranteeing all these student loans without screening them like a normal loan. It gives schools little or no incentive to keep the cost down since for years they had an unlimited numbers of paying customers with no risk since federal loans are guaranteed. Meanwhile college enrollment exploded and now it's all leveling out since prices are high and students dont want this much debt.

Not saying that's NDSU and UNDs problem but nationally it is.

I think the state needs to consider amending the Constitution and cutting a couple of ND schools. Way too many.

[Vet70]

I think the state needs to consider amending the Constitution and cutting a couple of ND schools. Way too many.

It should be done but it won't.

[Bison bison]

Burgum might be crazy enough to try.

[Vet70]

The last school to close in ND was Ellendale in 1970, which gives me an idea about how to solve the problem.
https://i.imgur.com/mA8vuem.jpg?1

[Professorbum]

The last thing I heard on enrollment was that ND high school student enrollment at NDSU was stable relative to past years. But MN enrollment is down. MnSCU schools are doing a better job competing for those students, particularly in the Twin Cities. So are other schools in the region. You see Univ of Nebraska and Univ of Missouri planting recruiting staff in the Twin Cities as it is now seen as a ripe market for new students. It doesn't help that we had lame-brained legislators making very public statements about "why are we subsidizing MN kids with low tuition?" They were too dumb to realize many of them go on to become North Dakota residents, and that's good for the state.

Enrollment is important for so many reasons. Obviously, revenues drop with enrollment decline. But it also impacts our rating and prestige. Many folks outside of campus may not realize this, but our fall from the highest Carnegie research status as a university is in part due to our size. We actually increased in research the year we fell out. But when Indiana University took over the Carnegie classifications, the formula changed. It made it very difficult for a public university of our size to stay in that highest category. This is why getting to 18,000 students was so important. That number, with a boost in grad student numbers, is seen as the critical mass level for having the volume of research necessary to be in that highest ranking.

NDSU is a gem for the state. I suppose UND is as well. But the political short-sightedness when it comes to lack of support (financial and moral) for our research universities from our politicians is so frustrating. I think they long for the days when NDSU was just a solid regional masters university.

[HerdBot]

The last thing I heard on enrollment was that ND high school student enrollment at NDSU was stable relative to past years. But MN enrollment is down. MnSCU schools are doing a better job competing for those students, particularly in the Twin Cities. So are other schools in the region. You see Univ of Nebraska and Univ of Missouri planting recruiting staff in the Twin Cities as it is now seen as a ripe market for new students. It doesn't help that we had lame-brained legislators making very public statements about "why are we subsidizing MN kids with low tuition?" They were too dumb to realize many of them go on to become North Dakota residents, and that's good for the state.

Enrollment is important for so many reasons. Obviously, revenues drop with enrollment decline. But it also impacts our rating and prestige. Many folks outside of campus may not realize this, but our fall from the highest Carnegie research status as a university is in part due to our size. We actually increased in research the year we fell out. But when Indiana University took over the Carnegie classifications, the formula changed. It made it very difficult for a public university of our size to stay in that highest category. This is why getting to 18,000 students was so important. That number, with a boost in grad student numbers, is seen as the critical mass level for having the volume of research necessary to be in that highest ranking.

NDSU is a gem for the state. I suppose UND is as well. But the political short-sightedness when it comes to lack of support (financial and moral) for our research universities from our politicians is so frustrating. I think they long for the days when NDSU was just a solid regional masters university.

Statewide Minnesota admissions were down 2.1% last year but Moorhead State has 2 years of growth and a huge chunk of them are from Cass and Clay county. 25% to be exact. They were up in the spring as well. Curious how their fall numbers look. Clearly they have done a good job over the last few years while UND and NDSU are dropping.

[bisonaudit]

Burgum might be crazy enough to try.

Yeah, the legislature loves him.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

The last thing I heard on enrollment was that ND high school student enrollment at NDSU was stable relative to past years. But MN enrollment is down. MnSCU schools are doing a better job competing for those students, particularly in the Twin Cities. So are other schools in the region. You see Univ of Nebraska and Univ of Missouri planting recruiting staff in the Twin Cities as it is now seen as a ripe market for new students ...

This is spot on. MnSCU totally spanked us on this and nobody here was bright enough to see it coming. Either that or they didn't care. Very disappointing and people should lose their jobs for it, IMO. That simple. Enrollment is becoming a primary source of $$ for colleges/universities.

[MrSnuffleupagus]

Burgum might be crazy enough to try.

Uhh...didn't he do some budget cutting in the tune of ~$50M in ND higher education funding earlier this year?

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Uhh...didn't he do some budget cutting in the tune of ~$50M in ND higher education funding earlier this year?

I have to say that I’m a little disappointed with Burgum here, although he’s in a tough spot. He’s got a state legislature that harbors anomalous hostility toward higher ed (mostly because of the RR valley, but it goes deeper than that) and a voting public that hates change of any kind. Not much he can do.

Looking at demographics, I would merge the smaller schools as ‘satellites’ under the administrative umbrellas of NDSU and UND, keeping faculty but gutting administration. But then nothing fights for its life like a dying bureaucrat …

Of course, this seems to imply constitutional change, which as I understand it would have to be a ballot initiative? In this regard, I’ll be very curious to see how the whole ‘legal weed’ thing shakes out, not from the perspective of higher ed (although evidence from CO suggests this would indeed lead to higher enrollments) but because of the scenario where the voters actually approve it and the legislature has to respond. That could be very interesting …

[HerdBot]

I have to say that I’m a little disappointed with Burgum here, although he’s in a tough spot. He’s got a state legislature that harbors anomalous hostility toward higher ed (mostly because of the RR valley, but it goes deeper than that) and a voting public that hates change of any kind. Not much he can do.

Looking at demographics, I would merge the smaller schools as ‘satellites’ under the administrative umbrellas of NDSU and UND, keeping faculty but gutting administration. But then nothing fights for its life like a dying bureaucrat …

Of course, this seems to imply constitutional change, which as I understand it would have to be a ballot initiative? In this regard, I’ll be very curious to see how the whole ‘legal weed’ thing shakes out, not from the perspective of higher ed (although evidence from CO suggests this would indeed lead to higher enrollments) but because of the scenario where the voters actually approve it and the legislature has to respond. That could be very interesting …

Some schools like Bottineau and Mayville are just too small and have less than a thousand students each. The market is proving they are not needed.

The legal weed bill (Measure 3) is great on all levels. Less people incarcerated, less court costs, less drug dealers, and in time it will be taxed and generate some positive revenue while cutting court costs and letting police focus on real problems. Some day when the federal government goes the route of Canada and full legalization, it could be a boom for farmers. Whether its hemp or full fledged cannabis. Canada is in the process of becoming the largest weed exporter on the planet. Billions with a B. There is a bill out there right now in Congress to legalize hemp federally and allow states to put the money into the banking system. We will be a step ahead of the game while other states will be playing catch up.

[nodak651]

I have to say that I’m a little disappointed with Burgum here, although he’s in a tough spot. He’s got a state legislature that harbors anomalous hostility toward higher ed (mostly because of the RR valley, but it goes deeper than that) and a voting public that hates change of any kind. Not much he can do.

Looking at demographics, I would merge the smaller schools as ‘satellites’ under the administrative umbrellas of NDSU and UND, keeping faculty but gutting administration. But then nothing fights for its life like a dying bureaucrat …

Of course, this seems to imply constitutional change, which as I understand it would have to be a ballot initiative? In this regard, I’ll be very curious to see how the whole ‘legal weed’ thing shakes out, not from the perspective of higher ed (although evidence from CO suggests this would indeed lead to higher enrollments) but because of the scenario where the voters actually approve it and the legislature has to respond. That could be very interesting …

I completely agree with this. How would you propose which University gets to pull which colleges/satellite under it's umbrella, in a fair way? Location? Would total students have to be relatively even?

[bisonaudit]

I completely agree with this. How would you propose which University gets to pull which colleges/satellite under it's umbrella, in a fair way? Location? Would total students have to be relatively even?

Maybe there’d be a battle not to take them? You’d get to cut administrative overhead but if there are really too many locations and not enough students you’d get saddled with a ton of inefficient infrastructure and related maintenance.

[Bison bison]

The legal weed bill (Measure 3) is great on all levels. Less people incarcerated, less court costs, less drug dealers, and in time it will be taxed and generate some positive revenue while cutting court costs and letting police focus on real problems. Some day when the federal government goes the route of Canada and full legalization, it could be a boom for farmers. Whether its hemp or full fledged cannabis. Canada is in the process of becoming the largest weed exporter on the planet. Billions with a B. There is a bill out there right now in Congress to legalize hemp federally and allow states to put the money into the banking system. We will be a step ahead of the game while other states will be playing catch up.

To derail the thread.

Legalized marijuana will do nothing for farmers.

A little back of the envelope marijuana economics. Let's say we have irrigated production north dakota. yields 5 tons an acre. the average american suddenly consumes two pounds of the stuff. Only need 60,000 acres of the stuff. ND has more than 20 million acres of cropland.

There will inevitably be overproduction and returns close to break even. I'll know that marijuana has officially arrived when it is covered in the farm bill.

[Christopher Moen]

To derail the thread.

Legalized marijuana will do nothing for farmers.

A little back of the envelope marijuana economics. Let's say we have irrigated production north dakota. yields 5 tons an acre. the average american suddenly consumes two pounds of the stuff. Only need 60,000 acres of the stuff. ND has more than 20 million acres of cropland.

There will inevitably be overproduction and returns close to break even. I'll know that marijuana has officially arrived when it is covered in the farm bill.

Best part is having to deal with this smell popping up all over the place and not being able do anything about it if it's near your home.

https://melbourne.onpointwildlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Rockledge-FL-Dead-Skunk-Pick-Up.jpg

[Bison"FANatic"]

Using the hemp as a renewable fiber source is where there possibly could be a demand but that is to be seen also. The cultivation for human use is not very impactful.

[HerdBot]

To derail the thread.

Legalized marijuana will do nothing for farmers.

A little back of the envelope marijuana economics. Let's say we have irrigated production north dakota. yields 5 tons an acre. the average american suddenly consumes two pounds of the stuff. Only need 60,000 acres of the stuff. ND has more than 20 million acres of cropland.

There will inevitably be overproduction and returns close to break even. I'll know that marijuana has officially arrived when it is covered in the farm bill.

This will eventually be a global market. Canada is going to generate some generational wealth. Even if prices drop, the government will get their tax revenues no matter what and currently they get zero and spend money fighting it. Seeing it in a farm bill would make me laugh. Just because its funny.

[HerdBot]

Best part is having to deal with this smell popping up all over the place and not being able do anything about it if it's near your home.

https://melbourne.onpointwildlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Rockledge-FL-Dead-Skunk-Pick-Up.jpg

I know your comment was in purple but most people do edibles or vaporizers these days. They even had a show on the Food Network

[runtheoption]

The cultivation for human use is not very impactful.

You need to try some Ghost Train Haze. You will feel the impact from that shit.

[Bison bison]

This will eventually be a global market. Canada is going to generate some generational wealth. Even if prices drop, the government will get their tax revenues no matter what and currently they get zero and spend money fighting it. Seeing it in a farm bill would make me laugh. Just because its funny.

If every adult American smoked one joint a day, 10,000 acres of irrigated cropland yielding 5 tons an acre would be more than enough supply the nation for the year.

About 12% of adult Americans use marijuana. You're now down to 1,200 acres. Probably half of users smoke less than once a month, 25% once a week, 25% daily. You're now down to less than 400 acres, or about three pivots, of production. Average ND Joe Farmer could do this himself.

Some ding dongs estimated $132 billion in tax revenue and more than a million new jobs. Horsesh#t. One farmer and a single processor could do this themselves. Much of the tax revenue is estimated to come from new wages and new business, as well as sales tax. It isn't going to cost a farmer $1,000 per acres to grow this stuff, but let's price is at $200/ton. Put it into little packets on a production line for 5 cents an eighth. So the cost of production is almost nil. People will pay a lot more, but only if they have to. Once the novelty wears off and competition sets it, the retail price is going to collapse.

The US might consume four million pounds of the stuff, but it is going to be like produce in the grocery store in my lifetime. (This is all that it is now, but there are for the most part a bunch of novices involved.)

Again, it's not a big deal. People don't have a clue how productive commercial agriculture is and they don't have a basic command of economics as economic returns under legalization will be driven to zero.

[HerdBot]

How many pot smokers do you think there will be?

New/better math.

If every adult American smoked one joint a day, 10,000 acres of irrigated cropland yielding 5 tons would be more than enough supply for the year.

Sorry, it's not a big deal.

We could also tax tomatoes if the goal is to generate revenue.


It's not about space or quantity. It's about price.

An ounce of weed is about $400 bucks. An ounce of corn is probably a 50 cents.

Worldwide consumption dwarfs the US. Obviously most people won't admit to using it since its illegal

[Christopher Moen]

I know your comment was in purple but most people do edibles or vaporizers these days. They even had a show on the Food Network

I really wish more would take that route as I hate the smell. With that said, I'm glad taxpayer money isn't being wasted on imprisoning individuals involved with the stuff. However, Colorado needs to get its act together in regards to making the funds more available to schools like they promised when the bill was on the ballot a years ago.

[Rock]

I really wish more would take that route as I hate the smell. With that said, I'm glad taxpayer money isn't being wasted on imprisoning individuals involved with the stuff. However, Colorado needs to get its act together in regards to making the funds more available to schools like they promised when the bill was on the ballot a years ago.

May be misinformed but isn’t the experiment in Colorado showing pretty poor results?

A weed smoking libertarian friend who is big on states rights told me it is failing because all states don’t have marijuana legal so all the low productive weed smokers moved there.

I suggested to them that is the reason for states rights. Allow a state to try it and if they fail other states don’t follow suit.

I don’t really care but seems to me the legalize weed crowd isn’t sticking to any real philosophy on the issue other than “legalize the thing I like.”

One of my favorite Ron Paul moments regarding legalization.

https://youtu.be/GFcuAPjBpiA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bison bison]

It's not about space or quantity. It's about price.

An ounce of weed is about $400 bucks.

Until it becomes legal and modern agribusiness gets a hold of it.

Want to bet a Coke on what the price will be in a decade? I'll take lower.

[HerdBot]

Until it becomes legal and modern agribusiness gets a hold of it.

Want to bet a Coke on what the price will be in a decade? I'll take lower.

I bet it will be more per ounce than corn or wheat and it will be taxed like a motherfucker. Beer prices sure haven't dropped over the years. I dont think I can name a single item at the grocery store that's gone down in price over the last decade.

There's already a shit load of illegal weed on the market and more supply than ever, yet prices aren't dropping. If it's legal, you will see less illegal supply. It would be like selling moonshine when you can go to the liquor store.

But If the price of weed drops, that's a good thing. Even if its cut in half, that's still $200 per ounce

[Christopher Moen]

May be misinformed but isn’t the experiment in Colorado showing pretty poor results?

A weed smoking libertarian friend who is big on states rights told me it is failing because all states don’t have marijuana legal so all the low productive weed smokers moved there.

I suggested to them that is the reason for states rights. Allow a state to try it and if they fail other states don’t follow suit.

I don’t really care but seems to me the legalize weed crowd isn’t sticking to any real philosophy on the issue other than “legalize the thing I like.”

One of my favorite Ron Paul moments regarding legalization.

https://youtu.be/GFcuAPjBpiA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly, I don't know about low productive people as I really don't pay attention to those that don't share my same interests. Outside of working, going to movies or doing something sports related, that social circle is pretty small and hard to break into.

I just know the State has collected a ton of tax revenue (https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data) from the sale of the stuff, but many schools are struggling to get the money due to the way the system is set-up.

[HerdBot]

May be misinformed but isn’t the experiment in Colorado showing pretty poor results?

A weed smoking libertarian friend who is big on states rights told me it is failing because all states don’t have marijuana legal so all the low productive weed smokers moved there.

I suggested to them that is the reason for states rights. Allow a state to try it and if they fail other states don’t follow suit.

I don’t really care but seems to me the legalize weed crowd isn’t sticking to any real philosophy on the issue other than “legalize the thing I like.”

One of my favorite Ron Paul moments regarding legalization.

https://youtu.be/GFcuAPjBpiA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont think people flock to states because weed is legal. You can get it anywhere in the country. Most people just take a puff in the evening instead of a beer and relax or use it to enhance music or sex.

In 2014, the Colorado Canabis market generated 76 million in state revenues and 35 million for schools. In 2015 the state gained 135 million.

Some stats are mixed. Overall crime rates are down. Violent crime is down. There is a slight increase in traffic accidents, some attributed to weed. Youth usage of weed has actually dropped. Colorado's population has been growing fast for decades before and after legalization so that has to be factored into the stats

[Bison bison]

I bet it will be more per ounce than corn or wheat and it will be taxed like a motherf@@@@@.

Haven't heard of that one, hopefully it hasn't bankrupted Izzy.


I dont think I can name a single item at the grocery store that's gone down in price over the last decade.

Factor in inflation and I think you'd be surprised.


There's already a shit load of illegal weed on the market and more supply than ever, yet prices aren't dropping.

Wait until the novelty ends, it is in every corner store.


I bet it will be more per ounce than corn or wheat and it will be.

I would hope so, we don't market corn retail by the kernel.

[EndZoneQB]

I dont think people flock to states because weed is legal. You can get it anywhere in the country. Most people just take a puff in the evening instead of a beer and relax or use it to enhance music or sex.

In 2014, the Colorado Canabis market generated 76 million in state revenues and 35 million for schools. In 2015 the state gained 135 million.

Some stats are mixed. Overall crime rates are down. Violent crime is down. There is a slight increase in traffic accidents, some attributed to weed. Youth usage of weed has actually dropped. Colorado's population has been growing fast for decades before and after legalization

People are flocking to Colorado for a plethora of reasons. Weed doesn't hurt, but to say they are all "low productive citizens" is not true. As with any massive in-migration, there is going to be some riffraff. Lots of opportunity there for sure...and I've had a bunch of friends move there for non-weed reasons...that just might be an indirect reason. But Bot is right, these people were already smoking it long before they moved to Colorado. In fact, the legal weed is generally quite a bit more expensive than black market, and these people still buy it at dispensaries.

[Bison bison]

I dont think people flock to states because weed is legal. You can get it anywhere in the country. Most people just take a puff in the evening instead of a beer and relax or use it to enhance music or sex.

In 2014, the Colorado Canabis market generated 76 million in state revenues and 35 million for schools. In 2015 the state gained 135 million.


Does it not seem odd to you for the government to explicitly benefit from higher consumption of drugs?

[HerdBot]

Haven't heard of that one, hopefully it hasn't bankrupted Izzy.



Factor in inflation and I think you'd be surprised.



Wait until the novelty ends, it is in every corner store.



I would hope so, we don't market corn retail by the kernel.

I know were having a discussion but I think we agree on most everything except farming. Who knows what it will look like in a decade. Im hoping we can kick Canada's ass in exporting it but I would just be happy if it was legal

[HerdBot]

People are flocking to Colorado for a plethora of reasons. Weed doesn't hurt, but to say they are all "low productive citizens" is not true. As with any massive in-migration, there is going to be some riffraff. Lots of opportunity there for sure...and I've had a bunch of friends move there for non-weed reasons...that just might be an indirect reason. But Bot is right, these people were already smoking it long before they moved to Colorado. In fact, the legal weed is generally quite a bit more expensive than black market, and these people still buy it at dispensaries.

I think you replied to the wrong post buddy. I agree with you 100%
Unless you just agreeing with me

I might add, you should always buy at at a dispensary or grow your own. Drug dealers could lace it or do anything to it. Makes it safer. I look at it this way. If you want weed, you go to a drug dealer. Dealers also sell other garbage so it sucks you into that world. Alcohol you go to a liquor store. When alcohol was illegal, you went to illegal bootleggers. I would rather grow my own I just like a tomato, or buy from a regulated place

[HerdBot]

Honestly, I don't know about low productive people as I really don't pay attention to those that don't share my same interests. Outside of working, going to movies or doing something sports related, that social circle is pretty small and hard to break into.

I just know the State has collected a ton of tax revenue (https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data) from the sale of the stuff, but many schools are struggling to get the money due to the way the system is set-up.

They got 35 million in 2014 and 37 million for the general fund, which funds education. Was much higher in 2015. Sounds like they are just throwing it into the pot, no pun intended

[HerdBot]

Does it not seem odd to you for the government to explicitly benefit from higher consumption of drugs?

It does sound funny when you put it that way but I dont think it is higher consumption, or if it is, it's not dramatic. It's just collecting tax on what people were already doing and not wasting tax resources fighting it.

The old laws are are even more ridiculous than alcohol prohibition. Its not really about the government benefiting. Its about living in a free country and not oppressing people for their own choices for something that has no lethal dosage. Although the government benefitting is a bi product of killing these medevial and oppressive laws

[Vet70]

I think it is a fact that legalizing the smoke will lead to "higher" student enrollments.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I think it is a fact that legalizing the smoke will lead to "higher" student enrollments.

Sorry, I guess the drift is my fault. FWIW, I see neither panacea nor doomsday. States that hop on first will see a $$ bump (see CO), while those that wait to be last will see nothing. But in the end BB is right – it’ll be no more different than tax revenue on liquor, probably even much less in a state like ND. Industrial hemp has potential but it remains to be seen. It could impact the paper industry significantly, for example, because it grows much quicker than poplar or jackpine.

I expect MN to go full legal soon, but if you had asked me just 2 years ago, I would have pegged MN and ND to be among the last. I have no doubt that the ND legislature would squirm with tremendous discomfort if the voters actually approve it, even going so far as to try to stop it. That’s why I find the measure so interesting politically.

Back to students – It seems the legislature has built in a penalty for drops in enrollment that turns this into a double whammy. Do I have that right? What’s the logic? This strikes me as regressive. If you want the schools to be self sufficient, you want them to have as high an enrollment as possible (Port is being a hypocrite here and is just showing his true feelings about higher ed, especially NDSU). When enrollment drops, the state should up support, not cut it, to help the whole enterprise survive the downturn. Everything ND does wrt higher ed strikes me as backwards. Why is that? You need schools like NDSU and UND to build new industries and attract new workers. I’m truly baffled sometimes by what comes out of Bismarck …

[EndZoneQB]

Does it not seem odd to you for the government to explicitly benefit from higher consumption of drugs?

Idk, does it bother you they are profiting already on "higher consumption of drugs"?

[HerdBot]

Sorry, I guess the drift is my fault. FWIW, I see neither panacea nor doomsday. States that hop on first will see a $$ bump (see CO), while those that wait to be last will see nothing. But in the end BB is right – it’ll be no more different than tax revenue on liquor, probably even much less in a state like ND. Industrial hemp has potential but it remains to be seen. It could impact the paper industry significantly, for example, because it grows much quicker than poplar or jackpine.

I expect MN to go full legal soon, but if you had asked me just 2 years ago, I would have pegged MN and ND to be among the last. I have no doubt that the ND legislature would squirm with tremendous discomfort if the voters actually approve it, even going so far as to try to stop it. That’s why I find the measure so interesting politically.

Back to students – It seems the legislature has built in a penalty for drops in enrollment that turns this into a double whammy. Do I have that right? What’s the logic? This strikes me as regressive. If you want the schools to be self sufficient, you want them to have as high an enrollment as possible (Port is being a hypocrite here and is just showing his true feelings about higher ed, especially NDSU). When enrollment drops, the state should up support, not cut it, to help the whole enterprise survive the downturn. Everything ND does wrt higher ed strikes me as backwards. Why is that? You need schools like NDSU and UND to build new industries and attract new workers. I’m truly baffled sometimes by what comes out of Bismarck …

They wrote the law pretty vaguely so they can fill in the blanks. I fully expect it to look completely different than it is written. Even if it is, its significant progress. However it effects farming is to be seen but I think we can all agree that by decriminalizing it, it will put us in a better place if it does take off and we have plenty of land and farmers who have the skills to grow hemp or cannabis.

In a dream scenario we become a huge exporter and the economy booms. Worst case, nobody grows it. The truth is probably somewhere in between

[El_Chapo]

someone can start a 2019 thread.

but here's my prediction.

:paperbag::paperbag::paperbag: Lower.... get your pitchforks sharpened

[Bison 4 Life]

someone can start a 2019 thread.

but here's my prediction.

:paperbag::paperbag::paperbag: Lower.... get your pitchforks sharpened

Residential college enrollment is down nationwide. Not a big limb to go out on there.

[El_Chapo]

Residential college enrollment is down nationwide. Not a big limb to go out on there.

just watch. be prepared

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

just watch. be prepared

You don’t want to know

I guess betting the farm on a residential model wasn’t such a great idea. FWIW, 10 years is a long time to be president at a university, even if you’re a successful one …

[KSBisonFan]

Residential college enrollment is down nationwide. Not a big limb to go out on there.

But this way he can say he broke the news. You know, Pulitzer and all.

[HerdBot]

just watch. be prepared

Looking at apartment vacancies and talking to area businesses people, based on their lack of business I predict a huge drop

[El_Chapo]

But this way he can say he broke the news. You know, Pulitzer and all.

dont wanna break this news, but im just saying. "Hold your butts"

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Residential college enrollment is down nationwide. Not a big limb to go out on there.

Not everywhere. VA Tech’s incoming residential freshman class is 1000 students higher than expected.

[GCWaters]

Not everywhere. VA Tech’s incoming residential freshman class is 1000 students higher than expected.

UMn has been proactive about this, too...it’ll be interesting to see their numbers...


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[Bison 4 Life]

Cool. Outliers. What a wild concept.

[Bison bison]

There is still significant demand for residential programs, but it far outstrips current supply.

NDSU is relatively well positioned to deal with this. As we provide a fantastic traditional college experience, have a general openness to provide non-traditional programs, but aren't chasing after distance programs like it hasn't been before and far better than we ever could (cough, UND).

I'm not at all a proponent of most 18 year olds taking distance education classes as they simply lack the drive and discipline to truly engage with knowledge.

If the ND University System was a system, it would look very closely at our current infrastructure, and current and future demands. In most cases, an instructor and a classroom is all that is needed. But we have 11 campuses, all but 3(?) of which are any way from too large to way too large.

[Bison 4 Life]

There is still significant demand for residential programs, but it far outstrips current supply.

NDSU is relatively well positioned to deal with this. As we provide a fantastic traditional college experience, have a general openness to provide non-traditional programs, but aren't chasing after distance programs like it hasn't been before and far better than we ever could (cough, UND).

I'm not at all a proponent of most 18 year olds taking distance education classes as they simply lack the drive and discipline to truly engage with knowledge.

If the ND University System was a system, it would look very closely at our current infrastructure, and current and future demands. In most cases, an instructor and a classroom is all that is needed. But we have 11 campuses, all but 3(?) of which are any way from too large to way too large.

The outstate campuses need to become satellites for the larger universities or GTFO. NDSU and UND are perfectly suited for their roles. UND the professional schools and NDSU for the Ag and Sciences. They are practically on a geographical island.

Commuter colleges and online education have their place. My wife teaches at what essentially is a commuter college, a satellite of the Indiana University system. They have the state carved up for recruiting purposes and allow people who don't want to go live in Bloomington an opportunity to get a IU education.

[1998braves64]

The outstate campuses need to become satellites for the larger universities or GTFO. NDSU and UND are perfectly suited for their roles. UND the professional schools and NDSU for the Ag and Sciences. They are practically on a geographical island.

Commuter colleges and online education have their place. My wife teaches at what essentially is a commuter college, a satellite of the Indiana University system. They have the state carved up for recruiting purposes and allow people who don't want to go live in Bloomington an opportunity to get a IU education.

and NDSCS remain as a trade school. I think someone stated the idea of making all the other state schools community colleges, would probably be ideal then as feeders to UND/NDSU.

[EC8CH]

and NDSCS remain as a trade school. I think someone stated the idea of making all the other state schools community colleges, would probably be ideal then as feeders to UND/NDSU.

From what little I know and have seen, this makes sense to me. Make it as seamless as possible for students to either transfer up to 4 year degrees at UND or NDSU or transfer down to two year degrees to the other institutions if they decide a 4 year degree isn't for them. Make it as painless as possible for students to adjust their education and career path once they are into the system.

[El_Chapo]

Another El Chapo Prediction:

Down almost 1000.

My Pitchfork is Sharpened & ready to go.

[EC8CH]

Another El Chapo Prediction:

Down almost 1000.

My Pitchfork is Sharpened & ready to go.

So 7% drop?

[El_Chapo]

So 7% drop?

El Chapo don't do math.

[GCWaters]

So 7% drop?

7.2%...with the 3.8% drop last year, that's 11% over two years...

[acf2]

When does the university typically release the numbers?

[GCWaters]

When does the university typically release the numbers?


4th week numbers (20th class day) are the official ones...should get unofficial week 1 numbers sometime this week...

[HerdBot]

Another El Chapo Prediction:

Down almost 1000.

My Pitchfork is Sharpened & ready to go.

I'm going to predict down 500. But when your at a decade low, that's actually pretty substantial hit for a university that made it a goal to hit 20k. Instead we're trending towards the D2 days

[Bison 4 Life]

Facing budget cuts and hiring freezes along with skyrocketing tuition from dwindling state support. I can see how hard it is to keep a growth trajectory.

[KSBisonFan]

El Chapo don't do math.

We already knew this from your budget and attendance and beer sales and FBS and etc, etc, etc projections.

[Hammersmith]

Quick side trip into K-12 enrollments before the higher-ed numbers come out...

West Fargo's K-12 enrollment came in just 12 students fewer than Fargo's this year, and will almost certainly be larger next year by at least a couple hundred. That's just mind-blowing to me.

Top 5 school districts by size appear to be:
1. Bismarck - 13,312
2. Fargo - 11,513
3. West Fargo - 11,501
4. Minot - 7,730
5. Grand Forks - 7,450(est)

So Bismarck is technically the largest, but the Fargo districts are larger by almost 10k if you look at them together. I know it's a long, long ways away, but I wonder if the WF & F districts will ever combine to simplify the mess of city limits, tax boundaries, and school district boundaries? There are still significant culture differences between the city and school leaderships in F & WF, but I wonder if those differences will slowly disappear in the coming decade or two?

[Bison"FANatic"]

No.....................

[bisonfanette]

Had an interesting conversation with a parent who's college bound student went for a tour of Ndsu. Unfortunately, the young (student) Ndsu tour guide wanted to talk about the football program 24-7. (Now for you & I, this would be fine :) but for this prospective student... she wanted to hear about academics and college life. Then it got a bit worse, when the young Ndsu tour guide wanted to show her the pigs... (this prospective student was not interested!) Needless to say, the prospective student did not choose Ndsu.
Sounds to me as tho the "tour guides" need to be educated to focus on the interests of the prospective students, rather than their own interests.

[GreenfieldBison]

Had an interesting conversation with a parent who's college bound student went for a tour of Ndsu. Unfortunately, the young (student) Ndsu tour guide wanted to talk about the football program 24-7. (Now for you & I, this would be fine :) but for this prospective student... she wanted to hear about academics and college life. Then it got a bit worse, when the young Ndsu tour guide wanted to show her the pigs... (this prospective student was not interested!) Needless to say, the prospective student did not choose Ndsu.
Sounds to me as tho the "tour guides" need to be educated to focus on the interests of the prospective students, rather than their own interests.

Yeah that’s not good. Did the prospect select a destination yet? Did the prospect offer feedback to the university in some way so that they are made aware of this disconnect?


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[bisonaudit]

No.....................

What color is your sash, Drazi?

[ByeSonBusiness]

Had an interesting conversation with a parent who's college bound student went for a tour of Ndsu. Unfortunately, the young (student) Ndsu tour guide wanted to talk about the football program 24-7. (Now for you & I, this would be fine :) but for this prospective student... she wanted to hear about academics and college life. Then it got a bit worse, when the young Ndsu tour guide wanted to show her the pigs... (this prospective student was not interested!) Needless to say, the prospective student did not choose Ndsu.
Sounds to me as tho the "tour guides" need to be educated to focus on the interests of the prospective students, rather than their own interests.

Was it one of them big group tours? Always felt bad for everyone involved in those. Looks no fun.

[bisonfanette]

Yeah that’s not good. Did the prospect select a destination yet? Did the prospect offer feedback to the university in some way so that they are made aware of this disconnect?
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Unfortunately the prospective student chose a different university. They did not talk about hockey on the tour. The parents did not provide feedback (they are not alumni, not that that matters) and I asked the same question. I encouraged them to do so. I was very disappointed to learn of her experience.

My understanding is that it was a very small group, with one tour guide.

[Bison bison]

I think that NDSU like many institutions needs to get it's sh#t together when it comes to recruiting.

A student means $40,000 in tuition and fees, and proud alumnus, a contributor to their community, and possibly a benefactor.

Not usually a fan of this comparison, but a private business would never leave this in the hands of some idiot who has nothing to talk about but football.

I took my kids on a tour of Wisconsin this summer. Our guide was undergrad from China who you'd think grew up stateside and was majoring in biomedical engineering.

She was smart and personable. No reason to not demand the same from our guides.

[WYOBISONMAN]

These kids and parents are going to care about the academics, costs, life on campus, opportunities for internships and/or study abroad, recruitment or grad school prospects after graduation......you know.....the unimportant stuff..... Geez.

[runtheoption]

Valley News Live says first day enrollment was 13,135.

[EC8CH]

Valley News Live says first day enrollment was 13,135.

for comparison:

https://www.ndsu.edu/data/enrollment/annual/


2014 14,747
2016 14,432
2017 14,358
2018 13,796

down 661 from prior year, 4.8%
down 1621 from peak, 11%

[El_Chapo]

for comparison:

https://www.ndsu.edu/data/enrollment/annual/


2014 14,747
2016 14,432
2017 14,358
2018 13,796

down 661 from prior year, 4.8%
down 1621 from peak, 11%

and another 400-500 will dropout in week or 2.

this isn't good folks....at all..

[bisonp]

A strong job market combined with ever-increasing tuition means the ROI on many college degrees is not very good right now.

[ByeSonBusiness]

and another 400-500 will dropout in week or 2.

this isn't good folks....at all..

Not ideal that's for sure.

[Bison bison]

This is bad, borderline really bad.

That's $4 million in lost tuition revenue, which is serious money especially after last year's drop.

[westnodak93bison]

Does ndsu have plans to cut staff or wages?

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[Bison 4 Life]

Does ndsu have plans to cut staff or wages?

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they have for 2 years now.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Had an interesting conversation with a parent who's college bound student went for a tour of Ndsu. Unfortunately, the young (student) Ndsu tour guide wanted to talk about the football program 24-7. (Now for you & I, this would be fine :) but for this prospective student... she wanted to hear about academics and college life. Then it got a bit worse, when the young Ndsu tour guide wanted to show her the pigs... (this prospective student was not interested!) Needless to say, the prospective student did not choose Ndsu.
Sounds to me as tho the "tour guides" need to be educated to focus on the interests of the prospective students, rather than their own interests.

Was the tour guide DB? Maybe he's coaching them ...

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

It's pretty clear what has to happen here ...

[roadwarrior]

Last year the first day enrollment was 13,650. Final fall number at 13,796.

Drop of 515 from first day last year to first day this year.

[westnodak93bison]

they have for 2 years now.Looks like they need to cut more?

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[El_Chapo]

This is bad, borderline really bad.

That's $4 million in lost tuition revenue, which is serious money especially after last year's drop.

try $8-10 million after they finally tabulate the 800-1000 kids drop

[blackdiamond2]

So if i am reading this correct - https://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/columns/3881945-dean-bresciani-why-and-how-18000-student-ndsu

We are not really close to our goal that was laid out about 5 years ago of having 18000 students by 2020. How do we get back on track? Should there be a little more heat on Bresciani for not delivering as he is the president of university?

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

So if i am reading this correct - https://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/columns/3881945-dean-bresciani-why-and-how-18000-student-ndsu

We are not really close to our goal that was laid out about 5 years ago of having 18000 students by 2020. How do we get back on track? Should there be a little more heat on Bresciani for not delivering as he is the president of university?

It's even worse when you factor in the 'penalty' that Bismarck will impose on NDSU for losing this tuition $$. I know, brilliant, brilliant stuff …

I can identify three potential reasons for the drop. The first is demographics, and ND higher ed is very poorly positioned to deal with this. I’m sorry to have to say that. While in-state demographics look good, the system was installed anticipating a much, much higher state population than reality. The second could be political in nature. NDSU has enjoyed a healthy number of MN students in the past, but it’s possible that such students (MN is a blue state) are put off by the current political climate. That’s all I’m going to say on that given the rules of this board, no matter how any trolls from either side respond.

The third and most easily addressable is leadership, and I’ve made my opinions on this clear. If people want to discuss this in more detail we should probably take it to the smack thread.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Bresciani has always been a smoke and mirrors President. Under him we have seen a decline in our Carnegie research classification from the highest level of research designation which is an R1 institution to an R2 institution. There has been a decline in graduate students and research which preceded this drop and was then made worse when this drop occurred. His hires and staff have created discontent within the faculty. There e been issues with the research and technology park, nanotechnology and his VP for Research. There were issues with his hire for Provost.

He needs to go. The question is who would we trust to hire a replacement? I am not sure I would trust the Chancellor, Governor or the State Board. They all seem lined up against NDSU.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I guess we’re going public then.

I came off the every-so-safe-and-comfortable lurk to defend the guy after he needlessly threw ML under the bus to save himself, so at this point I feel entitled to offer criticism.

All of the below are from reliable sources:

He goes to a tech innovation conference in research park and gives a talk about Bison football

When pressed about why he wouldn’t aggressively fund raise for the new chemistry building, his response was “I don't want the legislature to think we don’t need their money”

When pressed about why he wouldn’t fire Kelly Rusch (a complete and utter disaster for NDSU), his response was “I don't want to get in trouble for firing a woman”

He hires a “chief-of-staff” to basically run the place while he’s out pocketing personal $$ talking about Bison football

He sounds like he’s off his rocker by stating the goal of AAU status for NDSU

If that’s not enough, Port is recently on record as saying he’s doing a great job.

This guy won the lottery the day he got this job and he’s been milking it ever since. He’s a great ribbon cutter though …

Thank God ML is the real deal

[ByeSonBusiness]

It's even worse when you factor in the 'penalty' that Bismarck will impose on NDSU for losing this tuition $$. I know, brilliant, brilliant stuff …

I can identify three potential reasons for the drop. The first is demographics, and ND higher ed is very poorly positioned to deal with this. I’m sorry to have to say that. While in-state demographics look good, the system was installed anticipating a much, much higher state population than reality. The second could be political in nature. NDSU has enjoyed a healthy number of MN students in the past, but it’s possible that such students (MN is a blue state) are put off by the current political climate. That’s all I’m going to say on that given the rules of this board, no matter how any trolls from either side respond.

The third and most easily addressable is leadership, and I’ve made my opinions on this clear. If people want to discuss this in more detail we should probably take it to the smack thread.

I dont know if the political theory really sticks. Who knows though. Not like NDSU has a reputation for being very political like Liberty or Cal-Berkeley.

If families are not sending their kids to schools based on which presidential candidate a state voted for, not sure you really want those kids anyway. Their parents have cognitive problems.

[roadwarrior]

The unemployment rate has historically affected college enrollment. The lower the rate, less students in school.

[NDSU92]

The unemployment rate has historically affected college enrollment. The lower the rate, less students in school.

Watch NDSU hit 20,000 in the next recession. Cost of living and low tuition will push it through the roof. The only thing missing is demand since the job market is so slanted to employees currently.

[Grizzled]

W
Watch NDSU hit 20,000 in the next recession. Cost of living and low tuition will push it through the roof. The only thing missing is demand since the job market is so slanted to employees currently.

The university model is broken and is enrollments will continue to decline. A president with zero vision to notice this is the issue. .

[westnodak93bison]

W

The university model is broken and is enrollments will continue to decline. A president with zero vision to notice this is the issue. .What changes would you propose? Honestly other than online courses and closing/consolidating campuses I cant think of many.

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[GCWaters]

What changes would you propose? Honestly other than online courses and closing/consolidating campuses I cant think of many.

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We have to work on recruiting...we're losing many of the Minnesota students that we used to get--UMn has increased their scholarship amounts, and SD, Iowa, and Wisconsin are hitting the twin cities harder than they used to. We have more competition now, and we haven't adjusted well.

[Bison 4 Life]

The draconian budget cuts have made people realize that the state of ND is not interested in funding education, Minnesota is.

[Bison"FANatic"]

SD has or had a billboard up on I29. "New ND students pay instate tuition" or something like that

The market is quite competitive right now for students. I have no problem with a bit of a price war for the student dollar.

Competition is good for the marketplace.

[westnodak93bison]

Maybe it's time to consolidate and trim some fat?

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[Greta Van Herd]

Maybe it's time to consolidate and trim some fat?

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How dare you!! You know that there can never be any fat when it comes to education. :biggrin:

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Maybe it's time to consolidate and trim some fat?

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I’d be curious to know what the sum total salary of all NDUS administrators and their staff is. Leave out the Tech schools. It would be good to compare this number with national averages

I’d also be curious to know what fraction of each school's enrollment is online, if anybody has this information.

The problem at NDSU is that much of the trimming was directed at faculty and programs, as opposed to the administrative bloat that has been rampant during the 'DB era'.

Oh, and btw, it’s pretty obvious that FCC still has a deep, deep anti-NDSU bias. Anyone who can't see that is a fool. But with actual leadership in place, NDSU is still very well positioned. I'd never live in GF and I'd never commute there from Fargo

[ByeSonBusiness]

I’d be curious to know what the sum total salary of all NDUS administrators and their staff is. Leave out the Tech schools. It would be good to compare this number with national averages

I’d also be curious to know what fraction of each school's enrollment is online, if anybody has this information.

The problem at NDSU is that much of the trimming was directed at faculty and programs, as opposed to the administrative bloat that has been rampant during the 'DB era'.

Oh, and btw, it’s pretty obvious that FCC still has a deep, deep anti-NDSU bias. Anyone who can't see that is a fool. But with actual leadership in place, NDSU is still very well positioned. I'd never live in GF and I'd never commute there from Fargo

What does Grand Forks commuting have to do with NDSU?

[kab1one]

My son toured/visted 10 schools.

Valpo/Drake/St. Thomas/ St. Johns 50-60k a year, 25 to 20k a year after scholarships, awards, school aid.

Concordia- 48k, 25k after aid. Same cost to slightly higher than St. Johns.

Augustana/Jamestown- 30k, 12k

NDSU, MSUM,- 20k, 9-11k after scholarships.

Nine schools and for the most part all of them did an excellent job with campus visits. Very much treated my son as a potential customer or client. In some cases, him enrolling at a particular school is a potential $200k customer or account.

Ulitmately he decided on NDSU. Was between NDSU and St. Johns. His rationale became ultimate cost. His question to me is an accounting degree from SJU worth more than NDSU. I said no, the only difference would be the network you may establish at SJU. He decided to save the 40k over 4 years and enrolled at NDSU.

At orientation last summer, every thing about the day for student and parents was the university wanting to help the student succeed. It was very evident that NDSU wants the student to be comfortable as well as the parents. They want them to have a good experience. It is very clear why. A happy student is an asset. They may have siblings, so if current student does well, the siblings may follow. Additionally, they have a future alumni.

At least with my experience the university has gone above and beyond to attach the student to the school.

[El_Chapo]

good to know Kabl1one

[56BISON73]

My son toured/visted 10 schools.

Valpo/Drake/St. Thomas/ St. Johns 50-60k a year, 25 to 20k a year after scholarships, awards, school aid.

Concordia- 48k, 25k after aid. Same cost to slightly higher than St. Johns.

Augustana/Jamestown- 30k, 12k

NDSU, MSUM,- 20k, 9-11k after scholarships.

Nine schools and for the most part all of them did an excellent job with campus visits. Very much treated my son as a potential customer or client. In some cases, him enrolling at a particular school is a potential $200k customer or account.

Ulitmately he decided on NDSU. Was between NDSU and St. Johns. His rationale became ultimate cost. His question to me is an accounting degree from SJU worth more than NDSU. I said no, the only difference would be the network you may establish at SJU. He decided to save the 40k over 4 years and enrolled at NDSU.

At orientation last summer, every thing about the day for student and parents was the university wanting to help the student succeed. It was very evident that NDSU wants the student to be comfortable as well as the parents. They want them to have a good experience. It is very clear why. A happy student is an asset. They may have siblings, so if current student does well, the siblings may follow. Additionally, they have a future alumni.

At least with my experience the university has gone above and beyond to attach the student to the school.

Youve got a smart kid. Not because he chose NDSU but because he asked the right questions.

[El_Chapo]

someone can start a 2019 thread.

but here's my prediction.

:paperbag::paperbag::paperbag: Lower.... get your pitchforks sharpened

nice Friday night newsdump.. I'm actually impressed by it. smart!! https://www.westfargopioneer.com/news/education/4661010-Enrollment-drop-projected-to-cost-NDSU-millions-of-dollars

[ThunderDan]

college attendance is down nationwide over the last few years, it's not just an NDSU issue.
People are realizing you don't need to go to college to get a good job and make money, and add in the fact that young people can become entrepreneurs much easier now days with the internet and it's not surprising. To be honest, I learned nothing in college, and every single job i've ever had, not a single one of them asked me if I went to college. I work in the tech industry for a very large tech company in the area (not hard to guess which one) and even they did not ask about my college degree.

Unless your going to be in a very specific trade (IE doctor, lawyer, dentist) it's really not necessary to go to college.
I think tech colleges will actually become more popular in the next decade, as they teach a very specific trade for the most part, whereas a four year school mostly teaches general bullshit. Add in the fact that online colleges will increase in numbers...why spend 3x as much to go to an actual school when you can get the same info from an online college?

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Unless your going to be in a very specific trade (IE doctor, lawyer, dentist) it's really not necessary to go to college.

I think you forgot to include engineer/scientist, which requires AT LEAST a 4-year degree. I'd say these jobs are much much more numerous than what you list.

However, what you say is generally true.

Are you defending him? Because I'm starting to genuinely dislike the guy ...

[ThunderDan]

I think you forgot to include engineer/scientist, which requires AT LEAST a 4-year degree. I'd say these jobs are much much more numerous than what you list.

However, what you say is generally true.

Are you defending him? Because I'm starting to genuinely dislike the guy ...

Obviously there are more jobs that would require a 4 year degree, but i wasn't going to google them all to get every single one :)

[bisonp]

college attendance is down nationwide over the last few years, it's not just an NDSU issue.
People are realizing you don't need to go to college to get a good job and make money, and add in the fact that young people can become entrepreneurs much easier now days with the internet and it's not surprising. To be honest, I learned nothing in college, and every single job i've ever had, not a single one of them asked me if I went to college. I work in the tech industry for a very large tech company in the area (not hard to guess which one) and even they did not ask about my college degree.

Unless your going to be in a very specific trade (IE doctor, lawyer, dentist) it's really not necessary to go to college.
I think tech colleges will actually become more popular in the next decade, as they teach a very specific trade for the most part, whereas a four year school mostly teaches general bullshit. Add in the fact that online colleges will increase in numbers...why spend 3x as much to go to an actual school when you can get the same info from an online college?

Yep, it's getting harder and harder to justify the expense of a four year degree because costs have spiraled out of control. I can't understand where all the money goes, it's ridiculous. There are all sorts of options for online training and certification these days. If colleges don't figure out a way to change their model to be more efficient a lot of them will not survive.

People here love to give UND crap about their online students but at least they are trying to modernize.

[Tony Almeida]

college attendance is down nationwide over the last few years, it's not just an NDSU issue.
People are realizing you don't need to go to college to get a good job and make money, and add in the fact that young people can become entrepreneurs much easier now days with the internet and it's not surprising. To be honest, I learned nothing in college, and every single job i've ever had, not a single one of them asked me if I went to college. I work in the tech industry for a very large tech company in the area (not hard to guess which one) and even they did not ask about my college degree.

Unless your going to be in a very specific trade (IE doctor, lawyer, dentist) it's really not necessary to go to college.
I think tech colleges will actually become more popular in the next decade, as they teach a very specific trade for the most part, whereas a four year school mostly teaches general bullshit. Add in the fact that online colleges will increase in numbers...why spend 3x as much to go to an actual school when you can get the same info from an online college?I agree. I think this is the future. Unless my kid gets a scholarship to a 4 yr college, I'm pushing him the opposite direction. I too never learned a damn thing in college and my work doesn't depend on it. I wish the U.S. would go the European route, more specifically, the UK system. Where they concentrate more on your major and you're done in 3 years. No wasted time on money grabbing courses that have nothing to do with anything. And they actually start their college degrees in high school (pros and cons). This is the system I see the U.S. going in the near future...hopefully.

[1998braves64]

I agree. I think this is the future. Unless my kid gets a scholarship to a 4 yr college, I'm pushing him the opposite direction. I too never learned a damn thing in college and my work doesn't depend on it. I wish the U.S. would go the European route, more specifically, the UK system. Where they concentrate more on your major and you're done in 3 years. No wasted time on money grabbing courses that have nothing to do with anything. And they actually start their college degrees in high school (pros and cons). This is the system I see the U.S. going in the near future...hopefully.

Many HS have dual credit courses so it's already happening to a very small scale.

[1998braves64]

In regards to needing a 4 year degree I sure hope more employees realize this and start looking at the trade school degrees and experience more. Seems to me I felt like I got passed over a bit because I had an AAS degree rather than a BS degree but maybe that's just my perception. That said my current company didn't.

[ByeSonBusiness]

Lot of kids seem to have a ton of college credits before setting foot on campus. (Insert meme of freshman saying "I'm technically a sophomore meme)

[AKBison]

Not sure it's fair to pin this all on DB. _ND had to take 5 of it's 14 dorms offline for this school year and their freshman class numbers are down again. It's a systemic problem among higher education. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze right now. As a resident of North Dakota I wish we would two things. The first is to use some of that oil money to permanantly endow partial scholarships for all high school graduates so that the cost to attend college is more affordable. The second would be to prioritize NDSCS and it's programs by creating a new and completely seperate Tech system that includes Williston, Bottineau, and DL. In fact, rename NDSCS as North Dakota Tech and the rest as Williston Tech etc. It's the future and frankly the best choice for a huge chunk of students who want to specialize in a trade or something tech related. It makes a lot more sense to do that and get a job right away that pays 45-60k then getting a history degree at NDSU and working at Starbucks for 12.50 while you figure things out.

[El_Chapo]

Not sure it's fair to pin this all on DB. _ND had to take 5 of it's 14 dorms offline for this school year and their freshman class numbers are down again. It's a systemic problem among higher education. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze right now. As a resident of North Dakota I wish we would two things. The first is to use some of that oil money to permanantly endow partial scholarships for all high school graduates so that the cost to attend college is more affordable. The second would be to prioritize NDSCS and it's programs by creating a new and completely seperate Tech system that includes Williston, Bottineau, and DL. In fact, rename NDSCS as North Dakota Tech and the rest as Williston Tech etc. It's the future and frankly the best choice for a huge chunk of students who want to specialize in a trade or something tech related. It makes a lot more sense to do that and get a job right away that pays 45-60k then getting a history degree at NDSU and working at Starbucks for 12.50 while you figure things out.

SHHH we dumped this news Friday at 7pm SHHH

[Bison bison]

Not sure it's fair to pin this all on DB. _ND had to take 5 of it's 14 dorms offline for this school year and their freshman class numbers are down again. It's a systemic problem among higher education. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze right now. As a resident of North Dakota I wish we would two things. The first is to use some of that oil money to permanantly endow partial scholarships for all high school graduates so that the cost to attend college is more affordable. The second would be to prioritize NDSCS and it's programs by creating a new and completely seperate Tech system that includes Williston, Bottineau, and DL. In fact, rename NDSCS as North Dakota Tech and the rest as Williston Tech etc. It's the future and frankly the best choice for a huge chunk of students who want to specialize in a trade or something tech related. It makes a lot more sense to do that and get a job right away that pays 45-60k then getting a history degree at NDSU and working at Starbucks for 12.50 while you figure things out.

Like some of your ideas, not all.

We don't need 6 different tech institutions with separate administration. We need one with multiple campuses.

[reformedUNDfan]

Bresciani has always been a smoke and mirrors President. Under him we have seen a decline in our Carnegie research classification from the highest level of research designation which is an R1 institution to an R2 institution. There has been a decline in graduate students and research which preceded this drop and was then made worse when this drop occurred. His hires and staff have created discontent within the faculty. There e been issues with the research and technology park, nanotechnology and his VP for Research. There were issues with his hire for Provost.

He needs to go. The question is who would we trust to hire a replacement? I am not sure I would trust the Chancellor, Governor or the State Board. They all seem lined up against NDSU.
research at NDSU is down because those portions of the federal budget have been decimated

[reformedUNDfan]

also the idea that degrees are less useful than ever is nonsense. More and more of the economy is based around advanced technology.

The problem is that that hasn't panned out in wages, because more and more of the economy is controlled by fewer and fewer organizations. Big businesses are price setters for wages in many fields.

While we're ragging on history minors, its worth nothing that history and philosophy both pay better than a business degree, because they actually learn how to write, do research, and think. That doesn't happen with business degrees.

[AKBison]

Like some of your ideas, not all.

We don't need 6 different tech institutions with separate administration. We need one with multiple campuses.

Agreed.......

[Bison 4 Life]

also the idea that degrees are less useful than ever is nonsense. More and more of the economy is based around advanced technology.

The problem is that that hasn't panned out in wages, because more and more of the economy is controlled by fewer and fewer organizations. Big businesses are price setters for wages in many fields.

While we're ragging on history minors, its worth nothing that history and philosophy both pay better than a business degree, because they actually learn how to write, do research, and think. That doesn't happen with business degrees.

I have a Speech Communication degree and have worked in the tech industry for years. My last job was a medical software company that required a degree.

[Bison bison]

Crazy.

My three year already knows how to talk. Buy her a NDSU sweatshirt and she'll be good to go

[Hammerhead]

My current job is with medical software and a college degree (in any subject) was one of the requirements. I only used my teaching degree at NDSU for a few years and decided that wasn't the career for me.


I have a Speech Communication degree and have worked in the tech industry for years. My last job was a medical software company that required a degree.

[DePereBisonFan]

When do we see actual enrollment numbers? Have those been released yet?

[BisonCardinal]

Bresicani building more dorms on campus is definitely a gamble. I believe enrollment at brick and mortar universities has topped out considering the declining birth rate and the increase in online degrees. Even if there is some consolidation with smaller higher ed campuses closing down, I don't think that will move the enrollment needle much.

My son is a freshman at the Naval Academy in Annapolis this year and when I went to his plebe summer "graduation", I was surprised at the lack of the modernization of the infrastructure to the campus. There was a lot of narrow two lane streets. I came to the realization that what they have serves its purpose and has for 100+ years. Their total enrollment is always going to be in the 4,500-5000 with each new class always in the 1,200 range.

My point being that 15,000 students at NDSU could very well be the top and staying there could be a challenge. I hope that the idea behind NDSU's new buildings is to make them more energy efficient and techno friendly so that we can continue to attract the dwindling enrollment pool.

[Hammersmith]

Bresicani building more dorms on campus is definitely a gamble. I believe enrollment at brick and mortar universities has topped out considering the declining birth rate and the increase in online degrees. Even if there is some consolidation with smaller higher ed campuses closing down, I don't think that will move the enrollment needle much.

My son is a freshman at the Naval Academy in Annapolis this year and when I went to his plebe summer "graduation", I was surprised at the lack of the modernization of the infrastructure to the campus. There was a lot of narrow two lane streets. I came to the realization that what they have serves its purpose and has for 100+ years. Their total enrollment is always going to be in the 4,500-5000 with each new class always in the 1,200 range.

My point being that 15,000 students at NDSU could very well be the top and staying there could be a challenge. I hope that the idea behind NDSU's new buildings is to make them more energy efficient and techno friendly so that we can continue to attract the dwindling enrollment pool.

Also to build up enough inventory so that the older-style dorms can be torn down eventually. Building so many dorms of the same style back in the 60s-70s has created something of a problem.

[bisonaudit]

Bresicani building more dorms on campus is definitely a gamble. I believe enrollment at brick and mortar universities has topped out considering the declining birth rate and the increase in online degrees. Even if there is some consolidation with smaller higher ed campuses closing down, I don't think that will move the enrollment needle much.

My son is a freshman at the Naval Academy in Annapolis this year and when I went to his plebe summer "graduation", I was surprised at the lack of the modernization of the infrastructure to the campus. There was a lot of narrow two lane streets. I came to the realization that what they have serves its purpose and has for 100+ years. Their total enrollment is always going to be in the 4,500-5000 (tel:500-5000) with each new class always in the 1,200 range.

My point being that 15,000 students at NDSU could very well be the top and staying there could be a challenge. I hope that the idea behind NDSU's new buildings is to make them more energy efficient and techno friendly so that we can continue to attract the dwindling enrollment pool.

Its a college campus, the roads are narrow on purpose, not because the infrastructure hasn’t been modernized.

[Bison bison]

As much as I enjoyed living in Reed hall twenty years ago, today's tit baby freshmen don't want communal bathrooms.

[bisonp]

As much as I enjoyed living in Reed hall twenty years ago, today's tit baby freshmen don't want communal bathrooms.

Even 25 years ago I'm pretty sure nobody liked the wide open communal showers in Stockbridge, where I spent my first year.

Well, I'm sure there were some who enjoyed it I suppose.

[ByeSonBusiness]

As much as I enjoyed living in Reed hall twenty years ago, today's tit baby freshmen don't want communal bathrooms.

I enjoyed the communal bathrooms in Johnson hall. They got cleaned every day. Never had to wait for a stall or a shower.

That was convenient.

[roadwarrior]

As much as I enjoyed living in Reed hall twenty years ago, today's tit baby freshmen don't want communal bathrooms.

Are you sure those still exist? NDSU has spent millions upgrading bathrooms in all of the older dorms.

[THEsocalledfan]

I enjoyed the communal bathrooms in Johnson hall. They got cleaned every day. Never had to wait for a stall or a shower.

That was convenient.

Got a little nasty on weekends, though.....

[56BISON73]

Even 25 years ago I'm pretty sure nobody liked the wide open communal showers in Stockbridge, where I spent my first year.

Well, I'm sure there were some who enjoyed it I suppose.

When I was in Stockbridge nobody really cared. Why? Is it an issue?

[Bison bison]

Because they can get the amenities of an apartment for a lower price.

[Christopher Moen]

When I was in Stockbridge nobody really cared. Why? Is it an issue?

https://i.imgur.com/Lv0vDic.gif

[acf2]

It looks like the final enrollment came in at 13,173. https://www.ndsu.edu/data/enrollment/annual/

[El_Chapo]

It looks like the final enrollment came in at 13,173. https://www.ndsu.edu/data/enrollment/annual/

told ya. yuck. need to be at 18,000-20,000 to really start making hay

[ByeSonBusiness]

Got a little nasty on weekends, though.....

Yeah...but decent chance that happens anyway if its 4 guys sharing a bathroom too.

[ByeSonBusiness]

Are you sure those still exist? NDSU has spent millions upgrading bathrooms in all of the older dorms.

As of 2011, Reed-Johnson still had communal bathrooms. I dont know how they could really do it any other way considering the layout?

Stockbridge had just gotten a facelift at that time and they still had communal bathrooms too.

[scottietohottie]

As of 2011, Reed-Johnson still had communal bathrooms. I dont know how they could really do it any other way considering the layout?

Stockbridge had just gotten a facelift at that time and they still had communal bathrooms too.

That reminds me. I had a planter wart finally come off the other day.

[IzzyFlexion]

That reminds me. I had a planter wart finally come off the other day.

Just in time for a harvester wart to take its rightful place.

[1998braves64]

My one year at Johnson I didn't really mind the "communal" bathroom. Showers were all stalls (this was 1998) but most dressed/undressed (I just went in my shorts and undies though) in the area before the showers, so it wasn't like HS locker rooms back in the 70/80/90s where it was just all open (which again for me didn't bother me guess I was comfortable with who I was and who I was around).

I'd say at Johnson those showers had been like that probably 10-15 years before I got there. Not sure what new layout they went to as Road indicated they remodeled these a handful of years ago now.

[1998braves64]

I've seen an actual article that VCSU went up in enrollment (highest ever) and a very recent tweet that Mayville State hit their highest ever as well. Maybe some of these really small schools are siphoning a few off of NDSU/UND. I think cost may be a factor as I've heard a few parents talking about even NDSUs cost vs Mayville (so presumably would be similar to VCSU/DSU/MiSU) and the significant difference there. But that is a national problem as well.

[B. b. bison]

I'd say at Johnson those showers had been like that probably 10-15 years before I got there. Not sure what new layout they went to as Road indicated they remodeled these a handful of years ago now.

Are we sure this was a remodel and not just some non-routine maintenance (NSFW) (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fake-masturbation-letters-dorm-showers_n_4654418)?

[GCWaters]

I've seen an actual article that VCSU went up in enrollment (highest ever) and a very recent tweet that Mayville State hit their highest ever as well. Maybe some of these really small schools are siphoning a few off of NDSU/UND. I think cost may be a factor as I've heard a few parents talking about even NDSUs cost vs Mayville (so presumably would be similar to VCSU/DSU/MiSU) and the significant difference there. But that is a national problem as well.

VCSU's numbers include the dual degree program in elementary education that is delivered at NDSU (El ed degree from VCSU, HDFS degree from NDSU)....there's probably at least 500 students in that program, and the numbers have been going up.

[Hammersmith]

I've seen an actual article that VCSU went up in enrollment (highest ever) and a very recent tweet that Mayville State hit their highest ever as well. Maybe some of these really small schools are siphoning a few off of NDSU/UND. I think cost may be a factor as I've heard a few parents talking about even NDSUs cost vs Mayville (so presumably would be similar to VCSU/DSU/MiSU) and the significant difference there. But that is a national problem as well.

This tidbit from a UND Q&A with a GF Chamber committee back in August explains a bit about Mayville(and probably VCSU):


A committee member asked how many students take online courses at UND.

“Online courses are tailored to meet the needs of students,” said Shivers. “They are demanding it. Nearly half of our students have taken an online course.”

Regarding online-only students, Shivers said Mayville State University has the highest rate in North Dakota, with about 40 percent of enrollees taking courses exclusively online. UND has about 21 percent of online-only students, while NDSU has 4 percent.
http://blogs.und.edu/und-today/2019/08/building-the-future/