Remarkable comments by Ryan Burns on recruiting versus the MAC

[THEsocalledfan]

http://scout.com/college/north-dakota-state/Article/BisonReport-Radio-91317-107379439

Go to about 7:10 in. He says two MAC coaches tell him on why they offer so few kids in WI, MN, IA, ND, SD, and NE, paraphrasing, "We know that if NDSU offers them, we are not likely to get them, and we don't want to be embarrassed on the recruiting trial by an FCS school." (BTW, Ryan is by no means an NDSU rube; he certainly has business interested tied to the NDSU fan base, but he stays fairly objective, IMHO.)

I found the quote curious and a makes me skeptical even if they really believe what they told Ryan.

So.....
1. I know they get their butt kicked by NDSU on the trail, but is it really "embarrassing?" Does it really harm them severely when they lose out to NDSU? (I admit, I get how embarrassing it had to be to Bohl to lose the top kid in WYO, but that is a very different situation since MAC does not have flagship schools.)
2. Or is the truth it is more like recruiting against a P5 school than they want to admit.......is that what is "embarrassing." (ie, they are ceding ground much like NDSU would not bother working hard on a top tier recruit in MSP with a solid B1G offer)

Discuss; really interesting comments from Mr. Burns. I may be reading way too much into it.

[HerdBot]

1) most of the mac schools are pretty meh and we've never lost to one

2) our facilities / game day atmosphere is way better

3) Wednesday night ESPN games in front of a few thousand fans are terrible

4) we can offer full cost of attendance

5) in state tuition rates for the 3 states couples with full cost of attendance gives partial scholarships more bang for the buck

6) Tradition

[23Bison]

^^^^^ this

[abc123]

http://scout.com/college/north-dakota-state/Article/BisonReport-Radio-91317-107379439

Go to about 7:10 in. He says two MAC coaches tell him on why they offer so few kids in WI, MN, IA, ND, SD, and NE, paraphrasing, "We know that if NDSU offers them, we are not likely to get them, and we don't want to be embarrassed on the recruiting trial by an FCS school." (BTW, Ryan is by no means an NDSU rube; he certainly has business interested tied to the NDSU fan base, but he stays fairly objective, IMHO.)

I found the quote curious and a makes me skeptical even if they really believe what they told Ryan.

So.....
1. I know they get their butt kicked by NDSU on the trail, but is it really "embarrassing?" Does it really harm them severely when they lose out to NDSU? (I admit, I get how embarrassing it had to be to Bohl to lose the top kid in WYO, but that is a very different situation since MAC does not have flagship schools.)
2. Or is the truth it is more like recruiting against a P5 school than they want to admit.......is that what is "embarrassing." (ie, they are ceding ground much like NDSU would not bother working hard on a top tier recruit in MSP with a solid B1G offer)

Discuss; really interesting comments from Mr. Burns. I may be reading way to much into it.

I think part of it is that those states aren't really in the MAC's footprint at all and instead they tend to look east and south because of the population density. Logically, why skip over Illinois, Michigan and Indiana, who are in the footprint and have a population base that is over 60% more than the states you named, if it isn't necessary? I would also guess the schools closest to those states (NIU) isn't one of the ones he talked with since they have 20+ players from their roster from the ones that were listed, mainly Wisconsin. Iowa is also an interesting inclusion as I don't think NDSU really hits there that hard, though I would guess UNI cleans up a lot of whatever Iowa and Iowa State don't take.

Not saying there isn't some truth to it and that these schools don't look out of the footprint for players (and missing on some very good ones when they don't), but I think they are fewer and far between, especially when your recruiting trips can be more efficient going into more heavily populated areas with more talent to choose from.

[THEsocalledfan]

1) most of the mac schools are pretty meh and we've never lost to one

2) our facilities / game day atmosphere is way better

3) Wednesday night ESPN games in front of a few thousand fans are terrible

4) we can offer full cost of attendance

5) in state tuition rates for the 3 states couples with full cost of attendance gives partial scholarships more bang for the buck

6) Tradition

Yes, which is exactly why I started this thread. Why would it be embarrassing unless they are embarrassed about all the things you mention? I'd bet they don't even realize how much of a slam it is on their own programs......

[tjbison]

I think part of it is that those states aren't really in the MAC's footprint at all and instead they tend to look east and south because of the population density. Logically, why skip over Illinois, Michigan and Indiana, who are in the footprint and have a population base that is over 60% more than the states you named, if it isn't necessary? I would also guess the schools closest to those states (NIU) isn't one of the ones he talked with since they have 20+ players from their roster from the ones that were listed, mainly Wisconsin. Iowa is also an interesting inclusion as I don't think NDSU really hits there that hard, though I would guess UNI cleans up a lot of whatever Iowa and Iowa State don't take.

Not saying there isn't some truth to it and that these schools don't look out of the footprint for players (and missing on some very good ones when they don't), but I think they are fewer and far between, especially when your recruiting trips can be more efficient going into more heavily populated areas with more talent to choose from.

you dont think we recruit Iowa?? LOL



just more annoying UND fan input

[abc123]

you dont think we recruit Iowa?? LOL



just more annoying UND fan input

I never said they didn't recruit it, I said it appears they don't really hit it hard. I think that's a fair assessment considering there are only two players on NDSU's roster from Iowa (Dunn and Godfrey). I guess the alternative that you're trying to present is that they do recruit it hard but if that is the case, they aren't getting commits to show for it. I don't think is the case and it would go against what was originally presented.

[tony]

Yes, which is exactly why I started this thread. Why would it be embarrassing unless they are embarrassed about all the things you mention? I'd bet they don't even realize how much of a slam it is on their own programs......

I heard the same comments and was kind of surprised too.

The MAC is spending a ton of money for the FBS label and trying to sell their brand as being at a much higher level than FCS. NDSU spanking them on the recruiting trail kind of ruins that message. So basically they're avoiding NDSU on the recruiting trail for the same reason that they've avoided scheduling NDSU for the last decade.

[THEsocalledfan]

I heard the same comments and was kind of surprised too.

The MAC is spending a ton of money for the FBS label and trying to sell their brand as being at a much higher level than FCS. NDSU spanking them on the recruiting trail kind of ruins that message. So basically they're avoiding NDSU on the recruiting trail for the same reason that they've avoided scheduling NDSU for the last decade.

BINGO. Pretty much echos my thoughts. The best part being, they are perpetuating the problem they have with NDSU's stature, to NDSU's benefit by helping make NDSU better!

[SDbison]

I am am all for NDSU moving up to FBS, but heaven forbid we ever consider joining the MAC.

[Christopher Moen]

Athletes like playing for National Championships. If you're not recruited by an elite P5 school, another P5 school is probably worth the exposure for these athletes to get a NFL shot. If there are no P5 offers, the opportunity of playing for National Championship at a FCS school that gets fairly good national exposure is worth it for many athletes as oppose to playing for a G5 school that is going nowhere, hemorrhaging money and the only exposure they get is when they get pummeled by a school like Alabama.

Winners like to win, and those kids can do that at NDSU.

[EC8CH]

I never said they didn't recruit it, I said it appears they don't really hit it hard. I think that's a fair assessment considering there are only two players on NDSU's roster from Iowa (Dunn and Godfrey). I guess the alternative that you're trying to present is that they do recruit it hard but if that is the case, they aren't getting commits to show for it. I don't think is the case and it would go against what was originally presented.

We recruit coaches from Iowa.

[tony]

I am am all for NDSU moving up to FBS, but heaven forbid we ever consider joining the MAC.

And if we do move up, our selling point better be winning, not some sort of arbitrary label. And I hope we'd still be playing on Saturdays rather than, say, Wednesdays.

Your post reminds me - I think there is some footage of you texting on your cell phone from the MVSU game that is just begging to made into a .gif. :)

I'll be getting on that right after BisonTeacher gets his t-shirts.

[HerdBot]

I think part of it is that those states aren't really in the MAC's footprint at all and instead they tend to look east and south because of the population density. Logically, why skip over Illinois, Michigan and Indiana, who are in the footprint and have a population base that is over 60% more than the states you named, if it isn't necessary? I would also guess the schools closest to those states (NIU) isn't one of the ones he talked with since they have 20+ players from their roster from the ones that were listed, mainly Wisconsin. Iowa is also an interesting inclusion as I don't think NDSU really hits there that hard, though I would guess UNI cleans up a lot of whatever Iowa and Iowa State don't take.

Not saying there isn't some truth to it and that these schools don't look out of the footprint for players (and missing on some very good ones when they don't), but I think they are fewer and far between, especially when your recruiting trips can be more efficient going into more heavily populated areas with more talent to choose from.

Yeah footprint has a lot to do with it. Distance is the #1 advantage for any school. That's probably why USD and SDSU target Nebraska and Iowa a ton. Probably why NDSU targets Minnesota the most. Not only is distance important, it's the culture. It has to be night and day for a kid in the MAC footprint to go from Buffalo New York to the Midwest or vice versa.

We don't generally recruit New York, Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana other than a few random players. We dabble in Illinois but in general it's not much.

I think it boils down to NDSU protecting the types of players they recruit in ND, SD, MN, WI, IA, MO, and NE .... we do such a good job recruiting Minnesota that we even win an occasional Power 5 battles. Wyoming has trouble beating ANY of the Dakota schools for players based on distance by itself. But the #2 most important state we recruit is Wisconsin which is in the MAC's recruitng footprint and we're cleaning house there... much like the South Dakota schools do with Nebraska.

[devin45k]

I am am all for NDSU moving up to FBS, but heaven forbid we ever consider joining the MAC.

I'd take MAC over being an Idaho in the Sun Belt

[El_Chapo]

Ryan was on KFAN with PA in MPLS monday talked really good about NDSU and PA pumped us up!!+

[El_Chapo]

if we were in the MAC.

NDSU would play in 1 Tuesday or Thursday night game a year and that's it so stop with that excuse

NDSU would be top 2 in MAC from the start

but MOUNTAIN WEST IS FOR THE BEST .. Land Grant Peer institutions !!!

[stevdock]

I'd take MAC over being an Idaho in the Sun Belt

Both extremely pointless conferences when it comes to FBS football.

[SDbison]

Come on Lakes, you know its Mountain West or nothing.

[reformedUNDfan]

Come on Lakes, you know its Mountain West or nothing.

AAC or bust

[THEsocalledfan]

AAC or bust

Same podcast, and Ross said AAC was not good conference. I firmly disagree with that

[SDbison]

Boise State and New Mexico on ESPN right now. Good game.

[THEsocalledfan]

Boise State and New Mexico on ESPN right now. Good game.

The only G5 conferences worthy of ndsu are MWC and AAC.

[SDbison]

The only G5 conferences worthy of ndsu are MWC and AAC. AAC is mostly a southern conference. Mountain West seems the best option. Too bad they wouldn't consider going to 16 teams and add Montana and NDSU. Other 2 teams?

[reformedUNDfan]

Same podcast, and Ross said AAC was not good conference. I firmly disagree with that
got a link/time?

[stevdock]

if we were in the MAC.

NDSU would play in 1 Tuesday or Thursday night game a year and that's it so stop with that excuse

NDSU would be top 2 in MAC from the start

but MOUNTAIN WEST IS FOR THE BEST .. Land Grant Peer institutions !!!

While you are right that it will probably max out at 1 weekend day game for the season, that one game can really be a killer to attendance. Throughout the basketball season there are lots of games that I would love to go to that are during the week, but we don't go to because of other activities that we are committed to at the same time. If we had a random mid week game I know there would still be plenty of people there but would it be packed and THE EVENT of the day. I can't imagine it would. Remember at least for a few years we had the Thursday night game before Labor Day and I can't imagine attendance was all that great compared to a Saturday game.

[wagsabison]

Both extremely pointless conferences when it comes to FBS football.

I agree. Most teams in those conferences are just glorified FCS schools. With the exception of a team like Western Michigan who went on a run last year.

[Mr Meaty]

I agree. Most teams in those conferences are just glorified FCS schools. With the exception of a team like Western Michigan who went on a run last year.

But most never have that run and there is not a run like that every year either.

[THEsocalledfan]

got a link/time?

Too lazy to find it. If memory serves, it was in relation to East Carolina.

[El_Chapo]

While you are right that it will probably max out at 1 weekend day game for the season, that one game can really be a killer to attendance. Throughout the basketball season there are lots of games that I would love to go to that are during the week, but we don't go to because of other activities that we are committed to at the same time. If we had a random mid week game I know there would still be plenty of people there but would it be packed and THE EVENT of the day. I can't imagine it would. Remember at least for a few years we had the Thursday night game before Labor Day and I can't imagine attendance was all that great compared to a Saturday game.

sorry but HOW the HELL can you compare a Wednesday bball game vs Alabama A & M vs a FOOTBALL Game on ESPN vs OHIO ? NDSU would sell it out. and you can keep the dome

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Boise State and New Mexico on ESPN right now. Good game.

It was a pretty good game. Lobos play ugly football (IMO) and the smurfturf is ridiculous but imagine NDSU getting that kind of Thursday prime-time attention on ESPN. Pretty nice stadium too ..

[HerdBot]

if we were in the MAC.

NDSU would play in 1 Tuesday or Thursday night game a year and that's it so stop with that excuse

NDSU would be top 2 in MAC from the start

but MOUNTAIN WEST IS FOR THE BEST .. Land Grant Peer institutions !!!

NIU plays 4 games on a Wednesday and Thursday this year plus 1 game on a Friday night. Talk about a horrible tailgating experience. They get 1 Saturday home game

And yes I agree we would be a top MAC team

[Snowgoose]

These comments are not that surprising to me to be honest. In my opinion recruiting generally goes like this. P5 schools take for the most part who they want then it becomes a regional battle for a vast majority of the kids. Since we have no G5 schools virtually in our region we get these kids. Look how much Bohl has tried to use his connections to get players and he loses most of those battles. We do get first shot at these regional kids because of our program from top to bottom.

[oldmantutters]

While you are right that it will probably max out at 1 weekend day game for the season, that one game can really be a killer to attendance. Throughout the basketball season there are lots of games that I would love to go to that are during the week, but we don't go to because of other activities that we are committed to at the same time. If we had a random mid week game I know there would still be plenty of people there but would it be packed and THE EVENT of the day. I can't imagine it would. Remember at least for a few years we had the Thursday night game before Labor Day and I can't imagine attendance was all that great compared to a Saturday game.

I loved those Thursday night games. The Turf was a madhouse after!