Why Play a Tough Non Conference Schedule?

[2011BisonAlumni]

Seriously, what is the point? NDSU plays in the toughest conference in the FCS. From the standpoint of getting the team ready for the playoffs, going through the gauntlet of the MVFC already gets us ready for the playoffs.

NDSU's first three games was clearly the toughest schedule in the FCS. How has that helped NDSU? If the current top 4 teams win out, there is zero doubt the playoff committee WILL NOT seed NDSU higher than JSU and Sam Houston State who play NOBODY. They have continuously proven to reward teams for going undefeated and playing nobody.

I just don't know if the scheduling philosophy is worth it anymore. Discuss.

[SC_TX]

Cause it's more fun. The Charleston Southern and Eastern Washington games were great. This season would be so much ore dull with wins over Norfolk State and Drake

[BisonTeacher]

So you are pro ferris state?

[EC8CH]

Seriously, what is the point? NDSU plays in the toughest conference in the FCS. From the standpoint of getting the team ready for the playoffs, going through the gauntlet of the MVFC already gets us ready for the playoffs.

NDSU's first three games was clearly the toughest schedule in the FCS. How has that helped NDSU? If the current top 4 teams win out, there is zero doubt the playoff committee WILL NOT seed NDSU higher than JSU and Sam Houston State who play NOBODY. They have continuously proven to reward teams for going undefeated and playing nobody.

I just don't know if the scheduling philosophy is worth it anymore. Discuss.

Crappy schedules get you a purdy record and a nice seed. Tough schedules prepare you to expose the over rated posers.

[No_Skill]

How does a soft non conference help if we still lose to SDSU or UNI? At least now we have an argument for being seeded higher.

[bisonaudit]

I guess I'd say that this season's non-conference schedule probably isn't consistent with NDSU's scheduling philosophy and they'd have preferred not to have such a difficult slate.

[2011BisonAlumni]

Crappy schedules get you a purdy record and a nice seed. Tough schedules prepare you to expose the over rated posers.

Is the MVFC not tough enough?

[1993bison]

I'd rather play 2 fbs

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[2011BisonAlumni]

How does a soft non conference help if we still lose to SDSU or UNI? At least now we have an argument for being seeded higher.

I would argue that it would have made no difference. They will seed a one loss NDSU team the same with or without having a tough non conference schedule.

I liked the old scheduling philosophy. One tough non conference game (preferably FBS), two cupcakes where you can keep your starters fresh and give your backups rep and then get ready for the playoffs via the conference schedule.

Looking back to the SDSU game, I really think the grind of our schedule is killing us. This team is beat down. Our schedule clearly won't help the cause come playoff selection time (NDSU has only been the #1 seed two times over the past five years). One of these years it is going to bite us in the ass. I think we have gotten to the point where it is too much too early.

[bisonaudit]

I would argue that it would have made no difference. They will seed a one loss NDSU team the same with or without having a tough non conference schedule.

I liked the old scheduling philosophy. One tough non conference game (preferably FBS), two cupcakes where you can keep your starters fresh and give your backups rep and then get ready for the playoffs via the conference schedule.

Looking back to the SDSU game, I really think the grind of our schedule is killing us. This team is beat down. Our schedule clearly won't help the cause come playoff selection time (NDSU has only been the #1 seed two times over the past five years). One of these years it is going to bite us in the ass. I think we have gotten to the point where it is too much too early.

It's one year. Do you know that the philosophy has changed? Sometimes you don't get what you want.

Also, we've been the 1 twice and the 2 twice in the last 5 years. That's guaranteed home field throughout. So, a) our cause with the selection committee is just fine and 2) the year were were the 3 the non conference opponents were Montana, Weber St & UND; which looks a lot like one tough non conference game and two cupcakes to me.

[Professor Chaos]

If the current top 4 teams win out, there is zero doubt the playoff committee WILL NOT seed NDSU higher than JSU and Sam Houston State who play NOBODY. They have continuously proven to reward teams for going undefeated and playing nobody.
How about some examples of how they've "continuously rewarded teams for going undefeated and playing nobody"? Last year undefeated McNeese was seeded #4 behind 2 loss NDSU and 2 loss Illinois St. A few years back a 10-1 Lehigh was left out of the playoffs completely because they had such a weak SOS and didn't win their autobid. Quit worrying about the STATs and Coaches polls. They are G-A-R-B-A-G-E. And they have next to no effect on the seeding.

[HerdBot]

I disagree. Just because the polls have them higher doesn't mean they will be seeded higher. Illinois State got the top seed and they played Iowa and @ Eastern Illinois. They also lost a close one to sdsu.

No way they look at a resume of beating Iowa, Eastern Washington, and Charleston Southern and seed them higher. Our resume would look weaker if you replace Eastern Washington with a cup cake

And playing a cupcake doesn't prepare you for conference play IMO. Maybe depth wise it does

[td577]

I would argue that it would have made no difference. They will seed a one loss NDSU team the same with or without having a tough non conference schedule.

I liked the old scheduling philosophy. One tough non conference game (preferably FBS), two cupcakes where you can keep your starters fresh and give your backups rep and then get ready for the playoffs via the conference schedule.

Looking back to the SDSU game, I really think the grind of our schedule is killing us. This team is beat down. Our schedule clearly won't help the cause come playoff selection time (NDSU has only been the #1 seed two times over the past five years). One of these years it is going to bite us in the ass. I think we have gotten to the point where it is too much too early.

I agree there is no let up this season with the schedule. We get through the conference schedule, hopefully do this with none or no more than one more loss, get a high seed, and get some rest before someone comes to the dome for the second round. Regardless of the inability to have cupcakes to have the comfortable ability to work in some reps of underclassmen, the Bison have to do this in meaningful games one way or another.

This team will be playoff ready. As long as the playoff committee holds its word and splits the Valley up a little bit, there aren't as many schools out there as physical as those in the MVFC. You think the Bison are going through a grind, what until they get to meet a team who has no clue what the word grind means.

[Bison03]

Wrong. If the brackets came out today, NDSU would be the #1 seed and Sam Houston might be the 4.

[2011BisonAlumni]

How about some examples of how they've "continuously rewarded teams for going undefeated and playing nobody"? Last year undefeated McNeese was seeded #4 behind 2 loss NDSU and 2 loss Illinois St. A few years back a 10-1 Lehigh was left out of the playoffs completely because they had such a weak SOS and didn't win their autobid. Quit worrying about the STATs and Coaches polls. They are G-A-R-B-A-G-E. And they have next to no effect on the seeding.

2011- Sam Houston #1 seed
2013- Eastern Illinois # 2 seed
2015- JSU #1 seed

I'm sure there are more but these are the best examples I can think of.

I'm not just talking NDSU though. McNeese is a great example. Why the fuck where they #4? Who did they beat to deserve that seed?

[ZHerd]

I agree that one cupcake should be scheduled non-conference. I think it helps the team to have that game. Imo the ideal schedule would be 2 FBS games and an FCS cupcake...perfecto

[CaBisonFan]

No one wants to play us. We take what we can get.

[bisonaudit]

2011- Sam Houston #1 seed
2013- Eastern Illinois # 2 seed
2015- JSU #1 seed

I'm sure there are more but these are the best examples I can think of.

I'm not just talking NDSU though. McNeese is a great example. Why the fuck where they #4? Who did they beat to deserve that seed?

Eastern Illinois was a deserving #2 in 2013.

The rest of your examples I can't argue with. McNeese probably should have played the first weekend last year.

Honestly, I think the committee does a good job of doing what they say they're going to do. I just don't think that they're very good at valuing the right things. But, basically every human has the same problems the committee does, and we don't want to turn it over to completely objective algorithms, so what can you do?

[td577]

2011- Sam Houston #1 seed
2013- Eastern Illinois # 2 seed
2015- JSU #1 seed

I'm sure there are more but these are the best examples I can think of.

I'm not just talking NDSU though. McNeese is a great example. Why the fuck where they #4? Who did they beat to deserve that seed?

2011 SHSU was undefeated, so I get that one. Plus no one really knew what NDSU was about. They beat a FBS team and a MVFC team during their season.
2013 EIU had 1 loss in the regular season in a 39-43 shootout with Northern Illinois. They pretty much destroyed everyone that year. Their OOC schedule had 2 MVFC schools on it.
2015 JSU other than the buttAuburn game, had no losses and put up techmo bowl numbers all year. Sure they ended up being a paper tiger, but had the key points to get them there. They played Chatty in the OOC part of the schedule along with ButtAuburn.

McNeese had gone undefeated thanks to the LSU game being cancelled and they had just beaten SHSU 27-10 in the second to last game of the year to lockdown the Southland. Other than that, their resume wasn't very impressive. One other win against a ranked opponent, a 21-7 win against #20 SE LA at the time. The same SE LA who lost to Incarnate Word and Abilene Christian and Nicholls State and SF Austin. SE LA helped anchor the bottom of the Southland. So you would think they have some reputation in the bank to warrant the high seed? You would be wrong. In the past 5 years, they have made the playoffs twice and are 0-2. They have beaten exactly 2 teams in that time frame who ended the season ranked. Both times it was SHSU. The last time SHSU ended up with the last laugh in the playoffs. The other time in the playoffs was in 2013 in the past 5 years when JSU beat them for one of their only 2 playoff wins in the past 5 years, as well, until their run last season.

[Professor Chaos]

2011- Sam Houston #1 seed
2013- Eastern Illinois # 2 seed
2015- JSU #1 seed

I'm sure there are more but these are the best examples I can think of.

I'm not just talking NDSU though. McNeese is a great example. Why the fuck where they #4? Who did they beat to deserve that seed?
Like td577 said, all 3 of those teams challenged themselves in the non-conference those years. However, all 3 didn't have very good conference schedules to test themselves with but there's not much they can do about that.

In 2011, SHSU played Western Illinois, FBS New Mexico, UTSA (transitioning to FBS at that time), and Texas St (also transitioning to FBS at that time). They won all 4.

In 2013 EIU played 2 FBS schools, beating San Diego St and losing a tight one to NIU. They also played @SIU and vs Illinois St. Their only loss was NIU.

In 2014 JSU played Auburn, Chattanooga (who was a top 10 team), and a cupcake (MVSU). Their only loss was #buttAuburn.

I think you'll find that the selection committee does a much better job of promoting tough non-conference (and conference) schedules with their seedings that the national pollsters do in their weekly trash... umm polls.

[BisonTru]

2011- Sam Houston #1 seed
2013- Eastern Illinois # 2 seed
2015- JSU #1 seed

I'm sure there are more but these are the best examples I can think of.

I'm not just talking NDSU though. McNeese is a great example. Why the fuck where they #4? Who did they beat to deserve that seed?

Sam Houston had an FBS win, as well as played 2 or 3 teams in the Southland that were transitioning up. The Southland isn't what it use to be in '11. Albeit it does look like some of the new teams like Nichols St now have a pulse. They dominated their conference that year as well.

Eastern Illinois had a dominating FBS win as well as dominated the OVC.

JSU had a strong Chattanooga victory, dominated their conference, and the Auburn loss was also impressive.

This year, Sam Houston hasn't played shit. They will face Central Arkansas, who looks like a legit playoff team. They must win that game as well as dominate the rest of their games to even be in the #1 seed conversation, and that just gets them in the talk. NDSU or EWU winning out could easily be seeded above them.

We will have all sorts of time to bitch about the committee, no need to start now.

Edit: I see PC pretty much beat me to everything I just said.

[thundarsdaddy]

Because we had some younger, less experienced players, at key positions this year that needed bigtime game experience, and as Teach alluded to, not Ferris State. Not that NDSU knew this when they scheduled these tough teams in past years. I'm glad Easton Stick got a ton of good experience last year, but with young guys in the o-line, young guys at d-back, an inexperienced punter, young receivers....they need to play in big games so they can grow up fast. Even Tanner Volson filling in at center helped the Bison out bigtime, in the first two games I think every year should go like this!

[Schwarz04]

The teams that are ranked ahead of NDSU right now really have no logical reason being ranked there. How are any of those resumes better or even equal to NDSU's? In the end I don't give a shit as long as NDSU ends up a top 4 seed; then the road to Frisco rolls through Fargo, and all the teams with bullshit weak schedules get destroyed by the Bison in front of our home crowd whether it be in the dome or Fargo South.

[BisonTru]

The teams that are ranked ahead of NDSU right now really have no logical reason being ranked there. How are any of those resumes better or even equal to NDSU's? In the end I don't give a shit as long as NDSU ends up a top 4 seed; then the road to Frisco rolls through Fargo, and all the teams with bullshit weak schedules get destroyed by the Bison.

We need to be top 2 to insure the road goes through Fargo. Anyway, the Stats poll and the coaches polls don't mean jack to the selection committee. At this point we just need to win out and hope the committee sees it correctly. They are much better at weighing this stuff than the polls are.

[bisonaudit]

Better than the polls, sure. But, that isn't a very high bar.

[ndsubison1]

Because if we have close games we can bitch about them

[Bison Bridge Guy]

Because if we have close games we can bitch about them

And maybe if we consistently play top FCS teams in non-conference games there will be a reduction in the "FCS sucks lets move to FBS" threads on Bisonville. (Doubtful I know.)

[1993bison]

No one wants to play us. We take what we can get.
Just a matter of time until we go on the road for the playoffs.

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[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

Seriously, what is the point? NDSU plays in the toughest conference in the FCS. From the standpoint of getting the team ready for the playoffs, going through the gauntlet of the MVFC already gets us ready for the playoffs.

NDSU's first three games was clearly the toughest schedule in the FCS. How has that helped NDSU? If the current top 4 teams win out, there is zero doubt the playoff committee WILL NOT seed NDSU higher than JSU and Sam Houston State who play NOBODY. They have continuously proven to reward teams for going undefeated and playing nobody.

I just don't know if the scheduling philosophy is worth it anymore. Discuss.


Two words: BRING ON THE COMPETITION!

[El_Chapo]

I'd rather play 2 fbs

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How about play ALL FBS? Freakin western Illinois in Macomb is ranked #13. Think about that and how bad the fcs is, hell und is 4-2 in the fcs playing no one ,the fcs is a joke, we've already dominated it. Time to go

[HerdBot]

If we run the table we are easily a 1 or 2. Win over Iowa is a walk off Grand Slam home run. Win over Eastern Washington is an RBI triple. Chuck South is ranked #9 so that's an rbi double. We throttled Illinois State. We have a 2 point loss to the now #7 team

Problem is... Running the table will be really really hard. Our schedule is a bear. WIU, @UNI, Youngstown, Indiana State. USD looks like a tough game now

Of course if we do, Youngstown and WIU are ranked opponent's.

[runtheoption]

Seriously, what is the point? NDSU plays in the toughest conference in the FCS. From the standpoint of getting the team ready for the playoffs, going through the gauntlet of the MVFC already gets us ready for the playoffs.

NDSU's first three games was clearly the toughest schedule in the FCS. How has that helped NDSU? If the current top 4 teams win out, there is zero doubt the playoff committee WILL NOT seed NDSU higher than JSU and Sam Houston State who play NOBODY. They have continuously proven to reward teams for going undefeated and playing nobody.

I just don't know if the scheduling philosophy is worth it anymore. Discuss.

All I see when you post is alumni vs. alumnus. Discuss.

[CaBisonFan]

Just a matter of time until we go on the road for the playoffs.

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...this is true. Could be this year.

[BisManBison]

I like the tougher OOC matchups for the sake of keeping the games interesting (my heart disagrees with that strategy but whatever). I do think there is some benefit to scheduling at least one OOC cupcake though and that is to get some of the younger guys those needed game reps. I don't think we've gotten many snaps for some of the younger guys that could use them this year so far.

[wagsabison]

I think the Chuck South game was driven more by the ESPN Kickoff weekend. If it wouldn't have been for that we would have had a cupcake for that particular opening in the schedule.

[Bison03]

I think the Chuck South game was driven more by the ESPN Kickoff weekend. If it wouldn't have been for that we would have had a cupcake for that particular opening in the schedule.
We probably scheduled that game 4 years ago, before the ESPN kickoff game was even a thing, so I doubt that. As far as scheduling cupcakes; we should have on every year. Easy win, play a lot of backups, DI counter. The big boys play cupcakes, so should we. If fans aren't interested in these games, so be it.

[Mr. Burgundy]

Just a matter of time until we go on the road for the playoffs.

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#arrogantbisonfanprobs

SDSU has never made the quarterfinals of the playoffs....we are something like 20-0 in the playoffs...and we have fans going bananas this week over a loss on the last second to a rival. Shit happens in sports. It isn't the end of the world, and luckily it wasn't in the playoffs, or Prairie would be stock full of Bisonville regulars who are running around with pitchforks while sharing rooms and discussing play calling. Guys, it was a loss. To a top 10 team, who played a good game. We got beat. Now we play #13 team in American who can beat us. We gotta move forward, this team has done a ton for us as fans, least we can do is move on with them after a tough week. I expect we come out and play a very inspired brand of football. run it more, no pass it more, run it down their throat, no pass it to the tight end, more jet sweep, where is our running game, why don't we throw deep, why can our line dominate against Iowa and not SDSU...you guys get the point. What is it like 75-6 now?

[StL Bison Fan]

Just a matter of time until we go on the road for the playoffs.

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we play pretty well on the road. I'll go

[wagsabison]

We probably scheduled that game 4 years ago, before the ESPN kickoff game was even a thing, so I doubt that. As far as scheduling cupcakes; we should have on every year. Easy win, play a lot of backups, DI counter. The big boys play cupcakes, so should we. If fans aren't interested in these games, so be it.

I think we were still looking for an 11th game last spring

[DBRJake]

Not directly on topic but wondering what people think:
What impacts ranking more?
A - Winning against a team that you weren't "supposed" to beat (i.e. Iowa this year)
B - Losing to a team that you were "supposed" to beat (i.e. USD last year)

Which one helps/hurts to a greater degree?

[Bison Bridge Guy]

All I see when you post is alumni vs. alumnus. Discuss.

That username represents over 2000 Bison alumni. Questions?

[HerdBot]

Here's a good bit by Bison 1660's Jeremy Jorgenson today on Bracketology...

https://soundcloud.com/user-744211984/jeremy-jorgensons-fcs-bracketology-oct-18-2016

[bisonaudit]

Not directly on topic but wondering what people think:
What impacts ranking more?
A - Winning against a team that you weren't "supposed" to beat (i.e. Iowa this year)
B - Losing to a team that you were "supposed" to beat (i.e. USD last year)

Which one helps/hurts to a greater degree?

It depends.

[Hammerhead]

Don't we have that cupcake team from up north on the schedule in the next year or two?

[2011BisonAlumni]

We need to be top 2 to insure the road goes through Fargo. Anyway, the Stats poll and the coaches polls don't mean jack to the selection committee. At this point we just need to win out and hope the committee sees it correctly. They are much better at weighing this stuff than the polls are.

You sure about this?

Playing a tough non conference schedule gives NDSU no benefit. Proven today.

[semobison]

You sure about this?

Playing a tough non conference schedule gives NDSU no benefit. Proven today.

Playing in a tough conference has no benefit regarding playoff seedlings either!..... Personally, I alway liked one cupcake OOC game. An easy win, gives younger first year starters a game to figure some thing out etc...one is plenty though.

[Bisonator98]

Matt Larson needs to get out of the EWU game next year and get a D2 in here. Would help both teams out. A tough OOC schedule is obviously useless.

[BisonTru]

You sure about this?

Playing a tough non conference schedule gives NDSU no benefit. Proven today.

I take that comment back. This committee is shit.

[56BISON73]

Playing in a tough conference has no benefit regarding playoff seedlings either!..... Personally, I alway liked one cupcake OOC game. An easy win, gives younger first year starters a game to figure some thing out etc...one is plenty though.

All depends on what the parameters are for any given year. Last year they were talking about good and bad losses. WTF?

This year SOS has no bearing? Of course that may change by the end of the year when they get the memo that SOS can be considered. Obviously the FCS wingnuts still havent figured out how to do it right.

[ZHerd]

Don't we have that cupcake team from up north on the schedule in the next year or two?

Except, unfortunately, they aren't a cupcake and they could beat us right now

[ByeSonBusiness]

To answer the threads question....

Simple, people would rather see you play against EWU than Microsoft Word.

[unbison]

All depends on what the parameters are for any given year. Last year they were talking about good and bad losses. WTF?

This year SOS has no bearing? Of course that may change by the end of the year when they get the memo that SOS can be considered. Obviously the FCS wingnuts still havent figured out how to do it right.

Pat you need to get out and shoot something to much pent up rage old timer.... cheer up they didn't seed us number 4 yet

[wagsabison]

Matt Larson needs to get out of the EWU game next year and get a D2 in here. Would help both teams out. A tough OOC schedule is obviously useless.

Actually it kind of helped EWU when you think about it. I guess there loss is a better loss? So is JSU's? I can't wait till playoffs.

[RonMexico]

To answer the threads question....

Simple, people would rather see you play against EWU than Microsoft Word.

Are you sure? Looks like the committee would rather see you get a 50 point win against Microsoft Word than a 6 point win against EWU

[G_Funky]

Are you sure? Looks like the committee would rather see you get a 50 point win against Microsoft Word than a 6 point win against EWU

how about expanding a recruiting footprint? how about presenting the players with a challenge every week so they stay mentally tough.

it's hard to believe that ndsu is at a point where some outside entity has the potential to affect the way we do things. schedule whoever the f*ck has the balls to play in fargo and then get curb stomped at home when we play the next game. hell if i was larson i'd be have a short list of about 15 teams in the fcs id be considering for ooc games...and i'll tell you this - f*cking butler and the delta devils wouldn't be on it.

[Bisonator98]

Actually it kind of helped EWU when you think about it. I guess there loss is a better loss? So is JSU's? I can't wait till playoffs.

Probably not had they beat up on a cupcake rather then play us EWU would probably 1 or 2.

[wagsabison]

Probably not had they beat up on a cupcake rather then play us EWU would probably 1 or 2.

Got me there :)


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[ByeSonBusiness]

Are you sure? Looks like the committee would rather see you get a 50 point win against Microsoft Word than a 6 point win against EWU

Lol I don't care about a committee. Are you actually worrried about them? I usually don't watch cupcake games.

[NEBison]

Other than playing FBS games when we can get them there isn't much point to playing a tough non-conference schedule.The MVFC does a good enough job getting the team ready for the playoffs.

[coloradobison]

Other than playing FBS games when we can get them there isn't much point to playing a tough non-conference schedule.The MVFC does a good enough job getting the team ready for the playoffs.

until the committee changes it's mind on it's criteria

[56BISON73]

Pat you need to get out and shoot something to much pent up rage old timer.... cheer up they didn't seed us number 4 yet

I sure hope it happens sooner than later. Dont want to miss the ISU-b game.