Can we please bury the 3-3-5 defense

[HerdBot]

The 3-3-5 was pretty hideous. The QB had all day to throw and it put way too much pressure on the secondary. Glad to see we went away from it in OT.

I get what we were trying to do. EWU does a ton of 3 step drops but they seemed to go deep when they realized they had all day

[ndsubison1]

Think we had to try something different. Obviously didn't work. We really miss CJ and Champion inside!

[Rock]

Seems NDSU has been trying everything different the last couple years.

[HerdBot]

Think we had to try something different. Obviously didn't work. We really miss CJ and Champion inside!

CJ, Champion, or even Marcus can't cover a guy for 20 seconds. QB had all frigging day.

[HerdBot]

Seems NDSU has been trying everything different the last couple years.

Trying to reinvent the wheel and we failed miserably. What's the last time we allowed that many points?

[NDSUstudent]

Trying to reinvent the wheel and we failed miserably. What's the last time we allowed that many points?

Sam Houston back when Mertens was QB?

[ndsubison1]

CJ, Champion, or even Marcus can't cover a guy for 20 seconds. QB had all frigging day.

Ok dont miss them then lol

[silkamilkamonico]

They would have dropped 60+ and 700 yards of we were in a 4-2-5 or anything less. They probably would have regardless if that wr didn't get hurt.

[Kingslayer]

They would have dropped 60+ and 700 yards of we were in a 4-2-5 or anything less. They probably would have regardless if that wr didn't get hurt.
Doubt it...

[Kingslayer]

Klieman still trying to back his decision for the defense in the post game saying he thinks they had a solid gameplan on D... I like the guy and all but c'mon..just admit that it didn't work one god damn bit and should have stopped in the 3rd quarter!!

[silkamilkamonico]

Doubt it...

When kupp was in we had nothing to counter their short game. Dbs can't cover for 10+ seconds just like rush isn't getting to the qb when hes throwing 2 second completions all the way down the field.

[silkamilkamonico]

That offense was fn good and that's just the way it is. Best offense we've faced since probably ever.

[Kingslayer]

When kupp was in we had nothing to counter their short game. Dbs can't cover for 10+ seconds just like rush isn't getting to the qb when hes throwing 2 second completions all the way down the field.
Granted no. but as a safety you have one damn job, don't let the receiver get behind you.. I think only 1 or 2 plays extended 10 seconds.. other than that it was terrible D. Stop pretending it wasn't.

[Kingslayer]

That offense was fn good and that's just the way it is. Best offense we've faced since probably ever.
Even when Kupp was out we were getting burned!!!

[HerdBot]

They would have dropped 60+ and 700 yards of we were in a 4-2-5 or anything less. They probably would have regardless if that wr didn't get hurt.

No way. We would have probably had a ton of pressure and the QB wouldn't have had 30 seconds to throw. We go to to the 4 down lineman for 1 drive in OT and got a sack and a pick.

I think simply going nickel or dime would have been better.

[Kingslayer]

No way. We would have probably had a ton of pressure and the QB wouldn't have had 30 seconds to throw. We go to to the 4 down lineman for 1 drive in OT and got a sack and a pick.

I think simply going nickel or dime would have been better.
Thank you!! People act like it's a mortal sin to criticize the "home town team" when its deserved.

[89MTBISON]

Or how about dropping your best pass rusher back into coverage! The entire defensive game plan was FUBAR!

[silkamilkamonico]

Qb was good. Made some money throws, their wr's were outstanding, and their qb could run too which made everything harder

[HerdBot]

When kupp was in we had nothing to counter their short game. Dbs can't cover for 10+ seconds just like rush isn't getting to the qb when hes throwing 2 second completions all the way down the field.

Tampa 2 is bend but don't break. Tighten up when you get in redzone. We just broke.

[silkamilkamonico]

No way. We would have probably had a ton of pressure and the QB wouldn't have had 30 seconds to throw. We go to to the 4 down lineman for 1 drive in OT and got a sack and a pick.

I think simply going nickel or dime would have been better.

Pressure created some really big plays for them that was the problem.

[Bison03]

Do people really think that we will play this d in conference? No. Does any valley team run an offense like we saw today? No.

[bloodmakesthegrassgrow]

They would have dropped 60+ and 700 yards of we were in a 4-2-5 or anything less. They probably would have regardless if that wr didn't get hurt.

NO! And, as far as I could tell, they didn't miss Kupp a bit. Or Cupp, whatever it is.

[IBleedYellow]

Do people really think that we will play this d in conference? No. Does any valley team run an offense like we saw today? No.
Bingo.


EWU had multiple great weapons, and once Kupp went down they realized they had to use them all.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Christopher Moen]

Tampa 2 is bend but don't break. Tighten up when you get in redzone. We just broke.

Was that even close to a Tampa-2?

No backfield can stop an offense if the QB has at least five seconds to throw.

I saw WSU rush three only last week against EWU and it didn't work. Not sure why we thought it would.

Not sure which vexed me more, our defensive scheme or the officials (still trying to figure out what DeLuca got penalized for when he tackled the running QB).

[HerdBot]

Qb was good. Made some money throws, their wr's were outstanding, and their qb could run too which made everything harder

For sure. Really really good offense. I expected them to get their 400 yards Passing but not in my wildest dreams did I think they score 44. We waited way too long to adjust.

[HerdBot]

Was that even close to a Tampa-2?

No backfield can stop an offense if the QB has at least five seconds to throw.

I saw WSU rush three only last week against EWU and it didn't work. Not sure why we thought it would.

Not sure which vexed me more, our defensive scheme or the officials (still trying to figure out what DeLuca got penalized for when he tackled the running QB).

That reminded me of the crap we saw in 2009 with the shirty DC Breske who got shit canned. Reminded me of the first Montana game.

The good news js were done defending the weird ass offenses.

The refs were horrible. They were so bad the crowd erupted when they showed the replay of him getting crushed.

[RonMexico]

Do people really think that we will play this d in conference? No. Does any valley team run an offense like we saw today? No.

I think what bothering people is the complete lack of adjustment when it was obvious it wasn't working...

[CAS4127]

I think what bothering people is the complete lack of adjustment when it was obvious it wasn't working...

And it gassed our Dline by the 3 on fight. I can understand it as an option, but THE game plan?

[Bison Bridge Guy]

That reminded me of the crap we saw in 2009 with the shirty DC Breske who got shit canned. Reminded me of the first Montana game.

The good news js were done defending the weird ass offenses.

The refs were horrible. They were so bad the crowd erupted when they showed the replay of him getting crushed.

Was not proud to be part of those cheering while watching the umpire get smoked in slow motion. :hide:

[HerdBot]

On a positive note. It was one of the most exciting games I have ever watched. Easton Stick was total money today. Kid is the real deal. At one point has was 80 percent on 3rd down which was even more amazing given the lack of production on 1st down. Other than a few calls, overall Polasek called a good game. Need to do better on 1st down.

As much as we are disappointed in our defense... Our offense was just as good as EWUs offense. We put up 50 despite the most penalized game in my recent memory. We had a dropped TD pass so we shouldn't have even gone to OT. Morlock would have scored but his helmet came off

[Bison20]

Terrible game plan in my opinion. We have one of the best d-line in the country and we didn't even use it to our advantage. Instead we scrapped our whole philosophy to try and stop them. Still can't believe the coaches stuck with the 3 man rush most the game even though it wasn't working. Hard to learn a new defensive scheme in 2 weeks, wonder if assignments were getting blown cause the safeties seemed out of position and beat all day.

[Bison Bridge Guy]

From my vantage point in the north end zone, I thought Minard was held many many many times. Very frustrating to watch. EWUs QB is very good and the receivers catch everything. With that aside, didn't like the defensive approach by us at all as others have said.

[Bisonator98]

The 3-3-5 was pretty hideous. The QB had all day to throw and it put way too much pressure on the secondary. Glad to see we went away from it in OT.

I get what we were trying to do. EWU does a ton of 3 step drops but they seemed to go deep when they realized they had all day

Agreed. If your only going to rush 3 you damn well better have 6 DB's in there! PGT was a huge liability in that scheme.

[Bisonator98]

Terrible game plan in my opinion. We have one of the best d-line in the country and we didn't even use it to our advantage. Instead we scrapped our whole philosophy to try and stop them. Still can't believe the coaches stuck with the 3 man rush most the game even though it wasn't working. Hard to learn a new defensive scheme in 2 weeks, wonder if assignments were getting blown cause the safeties seemed out of position and beat all day.

Exactly. Took our strongest asset away which is our front 7. Mind blowing.

[semobison]

I looked back at some old records. That was the most points given up by a Bison defense in Fargo since USD scored 45 back in 1955! We lost that one.

[NDSUstudent]

Agreed. If your only going to rush 3 you damn well better have 6 DB's in there! PGT was a huge liability in that scheme.

Yeah, their QB was basically licking his chops at the end of the 4th quarter when PGT was covering a WR.

[HerdBot]

Pressure created some really big plays for them that was the problem.

Wrong. Lack of containment created that.

[EC8CH]

Wrong. Lack of containment created that.

They burned us on one blitz in the first half but that's all I remember seeing. Mostly broken plays with way too much time against a three man rush killed us.

[semobison]

Wrong. Lack of containment created that.

Yup, when their QB got outside he had time enough that all he had to do was wait for the receivers to clear. Reminded me of a sandlot game where you were only allowed rush 2 guys after they counted to five.

[Bison20]

Wrong. Lack of containment created that.

Wrong lack of a pass rush created big plays. He had all day to throw. It also doesn't help to have PGT trying to cover a wr with no safeties to help

[semobison]

Wrong lack of a pass rush created big plays. He had all day to throw. It also doesn't help to have PGT trying to cover a wr with no safeties to help

When you only rush three it is hard to keep the QB in the pocket. When he got outside of the containment he had all day to throw. You can only cover for so long. They should have scrapped the 3 man rush after the 2nd drive of the 3rd qtr.

[semobison]

Wrong lack of a pass rush created big plays. He had all day to throw. It also doesn't help to have PGT trying to cover a wr with no safeties to help

When you only rush three it is hard to keep the QB in the pocket. When he got outside of the containment he had all day to throw. You can only cover for so long. They should have scrapped the 3 man rush after the 2nd drive of the 3rd qtr.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

Their O line was terrible at pass protection. When we went to 4 down linemen, we either broke up the play or got a sack, then went back to 3 down linemen and gave up a first down or score. Terrible D game plan. We basically adopted a Big Fluffy D scheme. WTF, why would we totally lose our identity and try to be something we are not? Under Bohl, we maintained our identity through thick and thin. Lately we seem to be searching for an identity. Not a good long term strategy, IMO.

[Bison20]

When you only rush three it is hard to keep the QB in the pocket. When he got outside of the containment he had all day to throw. You can only cover for so long. They should have scrapped the 3 man rush after the 2nd drive of the 3rd qtr.

Agreed, should have scrapped it early in the first half. Our d-line is one of if not the best in fcs and the strength of our defense and we didn't even use it to our advantage.

[td577]

I would have liked to have seen a blitz here and there. We really didn't do much to make them change anything. When there was pressure, their QB threw the ball earlier and less accurately. Sure they completed some, but not at the same rate and with the same yardage involved. Their offense was really good, but we helped them look a lot better. It would be interesting to see them again because I don't think we would see anything like this defensive game plan we saw today from the Bison.

[CAS4127]

I would have liked to have seen a blitz here and there. We really didn't do much to make them change anything. When there was pressure, their QB threw the ball earlier and less accurately. Sure they completed some, but not at the same rate and with the same yardage involved. Their offense was really good, but we helped them look a lot better. It would be interesting to see them again because I don't think we would see anything like this defensive game plan we saw today from the Bison.

And when we did blitz, we showed it early. Kinda puzzling ... We were either rushing 3 or blitzing when in 3 DL set.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

We play our base D peppered with a few blitzes here and there and it isn't even a game. Their o line was terrible.

[HerdBot]

We play our base D peppered with a few blitzes here and there and it isn't even a game. Their o line was terrible.

I would say base nickel defense.

[56BISON73]

Im trying go figure out how do you get burned on 3 Doug Flutie hail marys that were dying ducks?

[RonMexico]

Im trying go figure out how do you get burned on 3 Doug Flutie hail marys that were dying ducks?

well...Entz said they were doing something on defense they had never done before and it showed...the DBs were clueless out there at times..

[Christopher Moen]

And when we did blitz, we showed it early. Kinda puzzling ... We were either rushing 3 or blitzing when in 3 DL set.

I hate criticizing our team, but we were either not thinking or hiding blitz packages as a secret weapon for later games. Either way, we weren't thinking correctly.

As a former defensive player, did it ever work better to get away from your basic scheme(s), especially the one(s) that made your team successful? Serious question because I'm beyond befuddled about the coaches' approach today.

I wanted so bad to watch NDSU to impose their will on EWU, not to handicap themselves. Hopefully, a lot was learned tonight, especially for the coaches. They're much better than this.

[Schwarz04]

Anyone remember the last time the Bison gave up 44??

[thebigund]

Classic Missouri Fluff defense tonight. Kind of a bummer that Kupp got injured since that was such a hot topic of conversation this week.

[BisonNeil]

I am with you.

[BisonAlumni]

Anyone remember the last time the Bison gave up 44??

Nov 09, 2002 Omaha, NE Nebraska Omaha 49, North Dakota State 42

[EC8CH]

Classic Missouri Fluff defense tonight. Kind of a bummer that Kupp got injured since that was such a hot topic of conversation this week.

Bison are 2-0.

Have the Fhawkers won yet?

http://forum.siouxsports.com/uploads/monthly_2016_06/image.jpeg.b065fabfe83bb3d18b7ce3217014b19b.jpeg

[HerdBot]

Anyone remember the last time the Bison gave up 44??

Sam Houston State in 2009 under Mike Breske who ruined our Tampa 2. His defense was so bad we allowed 28 to Wagner. Luckily he lasted a gear and Scott Hazelton brought back the real Bison D. The other bad showings included Sam Houston Rhett Bomar game in 2007.

[CAS4127]

Classic Missouri Fluff defense tonight. Kind of a bummer that Kupp got injured since that was such a hot topic of conversation this week.

I hope he isn't injured too bad, but he got hit hard, and things didn't look good for him on sideline.

[Biz101on]

0-5-6 defense might've been better. Same results?? Idk..purple I guess...

[NDSUstudent]

I hope he isn't injured too bad, but he got hit hard, and things didn't look good for him on sideline.

If people want to talk about coaching decisions, somebody needs to explain to me what EWU was thinking running Kupp like that. I get that he is a big play guy but that was just setting him up to take some shots.

[1998braves64]

I get why they went with 3 Dline. What I didn't get is they hung them out to dry. Why couldn't they spare one of the other 8 guys to rush the QB. It was obvious by the 2nd quarter that it wasn't performing well and blatantly obvious on EWU first drive in the 2nd half. By the end of the game they were using 4 linemen again more often. Yes they got burned a couple times but you could see that EWU line was starting to unravel in my opinion. Not to mention their QB seemed to lose his ability to scramble.

I don't know how they thought that 3 rushers for 50%(whatever it was) of the plays was going to be overly successful. To many times it seemed like one guy would get put on the ground now all the sudden you have only 2 against 4 or 5 and the QB has a lot of space to scramble.

That said it was "successful" we won the game on an well timed INT. I was absolutely sure that EWU was going to score in ot, unless we took the ball away or got to him with a rush in less than 3 seconds. Maybe the starting with 3 then slowly transitioning to 4 threw EWU off just enough to allow us to win.

That offense is a high powered offense. Their QB is incredible he threw some passes in the perfect spot for his receivers. But he did throw 3 int.

Ready to cook up some Hawkeye!
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[MontBison]

That offense was fn good and that's just the way it is. Best offense we've faced since probably ever.

That's like being ok with another dude fucking your wife because he had a bigger dick.

[Christopher Moen]

If people want to talk about coaching decisions, somebody needs to explain to me what EWU was thinking running Kupp like that. I get that he is a big play guy but that was just setting him up to take some shots.

I expect other teams' coaches to make bad choices, not ours. I feel the Bison coaches will learn from theirs today and become much better soon.

With that, I'm done ranting. I like our coaches too much and I don't want to start sounding like a whiny malcontent. Time to focus on Iowa.

[BisoninNWMN]

I expect other teams' coaches to make bad choices, not ours. I feel the Bison coaches will learn from theirs today and become much better soon.

With that, I'm done ranting. I like our coaches too much and I don't want to start sounding like a whiny malcontent. Time to focus on Iowa.


Good post and I agree.

Learn from this and improve.

On to Iowa!

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

That's like being ok with another dude fucking your wife because he had a bigger dick.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

You win the Bisonville award for getting your point across in the fewest words possible.

Well done good sir, well done!

[CalBison97]

I expect other teams' coaches to make bad choices, not ours. I feel the Bison coaches will learn from theirs today and become much better soon.

With that, I'm done ranting. I like our coaches too much and I don't want to start sounding like a whiny malcontent. Time to focus on Iowa.

Agreed, but the clock-management is an on-going issue and never seems to 'get learned'. There was a minute left when we clocked it on 1st and goal! We left enough time on the clock to allow EWU a final regulation drive culminating in a fg attempt.

[civilguy]

Was it me? But it appeared that after so many count their receivers would just go to different quadrants and wait for the qb to just do his best Brett Favre and chuck it. Thought it was duck season!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldmantutters]

If people want to talk about coaching decisions, somebody needs to explain to me what EWU was thinking running Kupp like that. I get that he is a big play guy but that was just setting him up to take some shots.
That is the brand of football they play. It's not the style we are accustomed to here, but they seem to love it. Like you said, he is a big play guy and they like to get him involved in as many ways as they can. I would suggest that good coaches know what their strengths are and tell the other team to stop them.

P.S. our coaches didn't do that yesterday, we let the other team dictate what we were going to try to do.

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

[56BISON73]

If people want to talk about coaching decisions, somebody needs to explain to me what EWU was thinking running Kupp like that. I get that he is a big play guy but that was just setting him up to take some shots.

Weve done that with some of our players. Look at Crocket, He was a RB, WR, PR, KR and he may have played slot? Bruce--RB, KR and special teams.

[MAKBison]

I get why they went with 3 Dline. What I didn't get is they hung them out to dry. Why couldn't they spare one of the other 8 guys to rush the QB. It was obvious by the 2nd quarter that it wasn't performing well and blatantly obvious on EWU first drive in the 2nd half. By the end of the game they were using 4 linemen again more often. Yes they got burned a couple times but you could see that EWU line was starting to unravel in my opinion. Not to mention their QB seemed to lose his ability to scramble.

I don't know how they thought that 3 rushers for 50%(whatever it was) of the plays was going to be overly successful. To many times it seemed like one guy would get put on the ground now all the sudden you have only 2 against 4 or 5 and the QB has a lot of space to scramble.

That said it was "successful" we won the game on an well timed INT. I was absolutely sure that EWU was going to score in ot, unless we took the ball away or got to him with a rush in less than 3 seconds. Maybe the starting with 3 then slowly transitioning to 4 threw EWU off just enough to allow us to win.

That offense is a high powered offense. Their QB is incredible he threw some passes in the perfect spot for his receivers. But he did throw 3 int.

Ready to cook up some Hawkeye!
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

we missed another 4 or 5 Ints

[MAKBison]

Was it me? But it appeared that after so many count their receivers would just go to different quadrants and wait for the qb to just do his best Brett Favre and chuck it. Thought it was duck season!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, as soon as the QB flushed out of the pocket they would break off the route and run to a part of the field. The QB was simply running and chucking it up for jump balls. What Fucked us is that as soon as our DB seen the QB running our Db let up on the receiver to support the run. Once the ball was in the air most of the time they were toooo far out of the play to truly defend the pass. I counted getting beat like that 4 or 5 times.

[56BISON73]

Yeah as soon as the QB flushed out of the pocket they would break off the route and run to a part of the field. The QB was simply running and chucking it up for jump balls. What Fucked us is that as soon as our DB seen the QB running our Db let up on the receiver to support the run. Once the ball was in the air most of the time they were to far out of the play to truly defend the pass. I counted getting beat like that 4 or 5 times.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This

[LongLostAlum]

There is no defense for the 3-3-5 defense.

[Son of a Bison]

Too many times we were not fully lined up in football position when they were ready to snap the ball. Lots of DBs and line backers looking at each other pre snap and not their man to cover. It gave their receivers, especially in the slot, a 1-2 step advantage and it cost us dearly - repeatedly. Making a D too complex so we are not set at the snap defeats the purpose of the scheme.

[HerdBot]

Too many times we were not fully lined up in football position when they were ready to snap the ball. Lots of DBs and line backers looking at each other pre snap and not their man to cover. It gave their receivers, especially in the slot, a 1-2 step advantage and it cost us dearly - repeatedly. Making a D too complex so we are not set at the snap defeats the purpose of the scheme.

Too many times I saw a d lineman sprint off the field at the last second which seemed to set off a chain of confusion. Like last year, Entz is making stuff too complicated.

[tojo70]

That's like being ok with another dude fucking your wife because he had a bigger dick.
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[CAS4127]

Too many times we were not fully lined up in football position when they were ready to snap the ball. Lots of DBs and line backers looking at each other pre snap and not their man to cover. It gave their receivers, especially in the slot, a 1-2 step advantage and it cost us dearly - repeatedly. Making a D too complex so we are not set at the snap defeats the purpose of the scheme.

Agreed.


Too many times I saw a d lineman sprint off the field at the last second which seemed to set off a chain of confusion. Like last year, Entz is making stuff too complicated.

I think Polasek is too, or at least not far behind

[THEsocalledfan]

I enjoyed watching the Eagles, as you'd swear it was the old Vigen offense. I think we all underestimated his ability.