WTH!!!! Kuhnert suspended two games by NCAA

[southcliffbison]

Grades issues according to Izzo and JK. Not good. Will miss games 1 and 2.

[CaBisonFan]

By the NCAA or the university?

[FrozenTech]

NCAA. Based on Coach K's comments, he was in danger of being out for the entire year last January. He came back at it and did everything he could to get his academics up to par. Not sure if he just missed, or if he's saved his season, but the NCAA doesn't completely wipe things clean.

[Farmer63]

I was thinking Triplett was working his way up as backup center. But the two deep has T Volson starting and Ziemer backing him up. Impressive to be this deep, but I'm wondering what changed?

[VirginiaBison]

Someone on the staff should be responsible for monitor this stuff. Who screwed up beside Kuhnert putting his NFL career in jeopardy? Must have Lochet's agent for an advisor.

[jub1982]

I'm not one to normally criticize individual players, but if this is a grades issue, it's absolutely on Kuhnert. The staff shouldn't babysit every player. They're student athletes. Hopefully it's a learning experience for the entire team.

[VirginiaBison]

okay, I'm wrong. No one monitors students athletes academic performance except their college deans. The Dean is to blame. What college is Kuhnert affiliated with.... engineering, architecture, religion, animal husbandry, general studies, health and ...?

[jub1982]

The staff monitors absolutely, but he's the one taking classes. He's the one doing the work. Other players aren't having the problems. It's not like the staff said, "we're going to monitor every player except Austin Kuhnert". Quit trying to shuffle blame.

[CyPanth]

By the NCAA or the university?


Does the NCAA ever suspend a player? Don't they suspend schools that fail to suspend players? I thought schools suspended players.

Now, of course, the NCAA hoses students who get caught up in the clearinghouse system or the medical redshirt system. Just get the Hok fans talking about that one and you will get an earful.

[thebigund]

okay, I'm wrong. No one monitors students athletes academic performance except their college deans. The Dean is to blame. What college is Kuhnert affiliated with.... engineering, architecture, religion, animal husbandry, general studies, health and ...?

The staff can't take his tests for him.

[ByeSonBusiness]

I think the Dean has better things to do than worry about how one student is doing.

Hopefully he learns from the experience of having everyone know he failed to keep himself eligible. That'd be a tough pill to swallow.

[ZHerd]

okay, I'm wrong. No one monitors students athletes academic performance except their college deans. The Dean is to blame. What college is Kuhnert affiliated with.... engineering, architecture, religion, animal husbandry, general studies, health and ...?

Getting passable grades in college is easy. Why should coaches be babysitting adults?

[VirginiaBison]

Oh, I see. Kuhnert didn't take tests. Probably a new concept... taking tests. And no one knew. Isn't there a quality control staff guy... what is that person's job? Sure Kuhnert is directly to blame, but no one else is concerned about student academics, progress and status on the team? Back in the day of ROTC they sure as hell kept track of our academic progress, but then that concerned national security, not national championships.

[Bison20]

It's called student athlete for a reason. Academics should come first and to blame anyone other than the student is a joke. It comes down to the student being able to pass the classes, I'm sure he has a tutor to help if needed.

[DakotaOkie]

Grade issues are the responsibility of the student...period. There are tutoring opportunities for students (especially athletes at many schools). Here is the policy statement and rules directly from the NDSU website regarding student athletes:

As academic support providers, our goal is to help all student-athletes succeed and become better students. We believe that the student is solely responsible for their academic performance, and we will work to assist them in educational, ethical and developmental ways. We are responsible to the student, not responsible for the student.

NCAA Eligibility Reminders
To be eligible any given semester, student athletes MUST:

Be registered for 12 credits (full-time) at the time of competition
Be in good academic standing with the following cumulative GPA:
1.80 prior to second year (third semester)
1.90 prior to third year (fifth semester)
2.00 prior to fourth/fifth years (seventh semester on)

To be eligible for competition, student athletes MUST have:
Earned 6 credits the preceding regular term (Football players must earn 9 credits each Fall)
Earned 18 credits since the beginning of the previous two terms
Completed 24 credits by start of the third term
May include up to 6 credits of summer school

In order to maintain eligibility, student athletes must make satisfactory progress towards degree completion:
40% of degree completed by start of third year
60% of degree completed by start of fourth year
80% of degree completed by start of fifth year
Five and six year program percentages are adjusted accordingly

So the moral is "go to class", study a bit, pass some of the tests...nothing too difficult for most college majors. I hate to see a player suspended but rules are rules and these rules are not the highest bar set out there.

[natstar1]

Oh, I see. Kuhnert didn't take tests. Probably a new concept... taking tests. And no one knew. Isn't there a quality control staff guy... what is that person's job? Sure Kuhnert is directly to blame, but no one else is concerned about student academics, progress and status on the team? Back in the day of ROTC they sure as hell kept track of our academic progress, but then that concerned national security, not national championships.

If there is a "quality control staff guy" who's to say he isn't doing a good job? How many FB players has this been a problem with?

[VirginiaBison]

Yep, I understand. Kuhnert is solely to blame for his academic performance. I knew that from before. But I thought the staff was interested in player academics also. I now understand that the HC, the OC, the LC, the PC, QCC, nor anyone one else is really interested in if the Center will be available for the game. Thanks for the perspective. You all have been very insightful, informative and helpful in understanding why a stipend scholarship athlete has no involved staff monitor or mentor and something like this happens. Glad to see the HC is 100% behind Kuhnert when he returns from suspension.

[natstar1]

Yep, I understand. Kuhnert is solely to blame for his academic performance. I knew that from before. But I thought the staff was interested in player academics also. I now understand that the HC, the OC, the LC, the PC, QCC, nor anyone one else is really interested in if the Center will be available for the game. Thanks for the perspective. You all have been very insightful, informative and helpful in understanding why a stipend scholarship athlete has no involved staff monitor or mentor and something like this happens. Glad to see the HC is 100% behind Kuhnert when he returns from suspension.

if there was an award given out for biggest asshole of the day. You would have won today.

[ZHerd]

Yep, I understand. Kuhnert is solely to blame for his academic performance. I knew that from before. But I thought the staff was interested in player academics also. I now understand that the HC, the OC, the LC, the PC, QCC, nor anyone one else is really interested in if the Center will be available for the game. Thanks for the perspective. You all have been very insightful, informative and helpful in understanding why a stipend scholarship athlete has no involved staff monitor or mentor and something like this happens. Glad to see the HC is 100% behind Kuhnert when he returns from suspension.

Your posts are assuming much about the help he supposedly didn't get. Did you read something somewhere about it I might have missed?

[ndsubison1]

Valuable reps for Volson now

[JSUBison]

Yep, I understand. Kuhnert is solely to blame for his academic performance. I knew that from before. But I thought the staff was interested in player academics also. I now understand that the HC, the OC, the LC, the PC, QCC, nor anyone one else is really interested in if the Center will be available for the game. Thanks for the perspective. You all have been very insightful, informative and helpful in understanding why a stipend scholarship athlete has no involved staff monitor or mentor and something like this happens. Glad to see the HC is 100% behind Kuhnert when he returns from suspension.

A truly groundbreaking post.

[VirginiaBison]

A truly groundbreaking post. Absolutely! ... I believe that more correctly is "... another groundbreaking post", but WGAS

[KilldeerBison]

Valuable reps for Volson now

Yep. Glass half full. However, the Portly one will be stymied, goes against the rhetoric of NDSU not following academic rules. IMO Austin will be back, with a vengeance.

[Bisonator98]

Yep, I understand. Kuhnert is solely to blame for his academic performance. I knew that from before. But I thought the staff was interested in player academics also. I now understand that the HC, the OC, the LC, the PC, QCC, nor anyone one else is really interested in if the Center will be available for the game. Thanks for the perspective. You all have been very insightful, informative and helpful in understanding why a stipend scholarship athlete has no involved staff monitor or mentor and something like this happens. Glad to see the HC is 100% behind Kuhnert when he returns from suspension.

:facepalm::facepalm:

[HerdBot]

Some of the posts here are stupid.

First off, NDSU has people who moniter academics. Listening to Kliemans comments, he was aware of what was happening. Heck didn't he hold him out of spring ball? You can lead a 🐴 to water but you can't make him drink. Austin made his own decisions and now he gets to deal with the consequences.

I'm glad Austin got his shit together. Being a student athlete is very very difficult. The kid will learn to better manage time from this and be back to kick ass on the field.

Overall the team does a great job. Just look to the team GPA.

[KilldeerBison]

Now back to the regularly scheduled thread derailment. Coach K. said Bruce Anderson has completely changed his body, bought into the off season lifting and conditioning. Big news!

[HerdBot]

okay, I'm wrong. No one monitors students athletes academic performance except their college deans. The Dean is to blame. What college is Kuhnert affiliated with.... engineering, architecture, religion, animal husbandry, general studies, health and ...?



Well then shouldn't the staff also be responsible for a 3.0 Team GPA? Criticizing the program for academics is like criticizing our program for losing a game.

[bisoningrandforks]

anybody have video on Klieman's press conference today..cant find it!

[Bison 4 Life]

anybody have video on Klieman's press conference today..cant find it!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjA8SmT8kg

[thebigund]

Yep, I understand. Kuhnert is solely to blame for his academic performance. I knew that from before. But I thought the staff was interested in player academics also. I now understand that the HC, the OC, the LC, the PC, QCC, nor anyone one else is really interested in if the Center will be available for the game. Thanks for the perspective. You all have been very insightful, informative and helpful in understanding why a stipend scholarship athlete has no involved staff monitor or mentor and something like this happens. Glad to see the HC is 100% behind Kuhnert when he returns from suspension.
So who is supposed to wipe the poor kids ass after he shits? Is that a quality control guy or a quantity control guy?

[VirginiaBison]

So who is supposed to wipe the poor kids ass after he shits? Is that a quality control guy or a quantity control guy?Hmmmm, good question. Coach K said he was 100% behind Kuhnert.

[ZHerd]

Hmmmm, good question. Coach K said he was 100% behind Kuhnert.

Lol at a supposed Bison fan castigating our coaching staff over one player struggling academically.

[NDSUBowler]

if there was an award given out for biggest asshole of the day. You would have won today.

Just for today?

VirginiaBison is nothing but an idiot troll who is so thick-headed and thin-skinned he takes offense at the slightest of slights.

No shock he is twisting this, just as he twists everything.

Guy has no concept of reading comprehension...spent an entire night going at EZQB because he is too big a dolt to realize EZQB was talking about something completely different.

[HerdBot]

anybody have video on Klieman's press conference today..cant find it!

Download the Bison 1660 app. It has it on demand with post press conference discussion from Jeff and Jeremy. It even has the Monday coaching call in show with coach K. What's best is they podcast them within the hour

[56BISON73]

Grade issues are the responsibility of the student...period. There are tutoring opportunities for students (especially athletes at many schools). Here is the policy statement and rules directly from the NDSU website regarding student athletes:

As academic support providers, our goal is to help all student-athletes succeed and become better students. We believe that the student is solely responsible for their academic performance, and we will work to assist them in educational, ethical and developmental ways. We are responsible to the student, not responsible for the student.

NCAA Eligibility Reminders
To be eligible any given semester, student athletes MUST:

Be registered for 12 credits (full-time) at the time of competition
Be in good academic standing with the following cumulative GPA:
1.80 prior to second year (third semester)
1.90 prior to third year (fifth semester)
2.00 prior to fourth/fifth years (seventh semester on)

To be eligible for competition, student athletes MUST have:
Earned 6 credits the preceding regular term (Football players must earn 9 credits each Fall)
Earned 18 credits since the beginning of the previous two terms
Completed 24 credits by start of the third term
May include up to 6 credits of summer school

In order to maintain eligibility, student athletes must make satisfactory progress towards degree completion:
40% of degree completed by start of third year
60% of degree completed by start of fourth year
80% of degree completed by start of fifth year
Five and six year program percentages are adjusted accordingly

So the moral is "go to class", study a bit, pass some of the tests...nothing too difficult for most college majors. I hate to see a player suspended but rules are rules and these rules are not the highest bar set out there.

So they have to be registered for 12 credits and only pass 9 in the semester you compete? :facepalm:

[A1pigskin]

Someone on the staff should be responsible for monitor this stuff. Who screwed up beside Kuhnert putting his NFL career in jeopardy? Must have Lochet's agent for an advisor.

There goes his pregame speedo contract.

[tony]

Looking forward to having Austin back on the field, but it's more important that he get back on track for getting his degree.

[Herd890]

Some of the posts here are stupid.

First off, NDSU has people who moniter academics. Listening to Kliemans comments, he was aware of what was happening. Heck didn't he hold him out of spring ball? You can lead a 🐴 to water but you can't make him drink. Austin made his own decisions and now he gets to deal with the consequences.

I'm glad Austin got his shit together. Being a student athlete is very very difficult. The kid will learn to better manage time from this and be back to kick ass on the field.

Overall the team does a great job. Just look to the team GPA.

Good post Gabe. I normally don't post in threads like this but reading through this was frustrating....

Listening to the presser and the Coach's radio show last night, Austin ran the risk of being academically ineligible for the entire season. He worked in the spring semester and all through summer school to make improvements and get to the point where it was only a 2 game suspension. NDSU provides him the resources to be successful as a student athlete but it is up to him to take advantage. Sounds like he is on the right path going forward. Best of luck to him.

[THEsocalledfan]

Good post Gabe. I normally don't post in threads like this but reading through this was frustrating....

Listening to the presser and the Coach's radio show last night, Austin ran the risk of being academically ineligible for the entire season. He worked in the spring semester and all through summer school to make improvements and get to the point where it was only a 2 game suspension. NDSU provides him the resources to be successful as a student athlete but it is up to him to take advantage. Sounds like he is on the right path going forward. Best of luck to him.

I felt the same. Even in the D2 days in the 90's, they had a very impressive system to help student-athletes to be successful. However, the player still needs to succeed and it is tough with the hours they put in for football. I so admired guys like Matt Roller (my only guy I really knew on the team, Dr. Roller now) who could manage a challenging class load an football. It is quite remarkable.

[Bisonwinagn]

Good post Gabe. I normally don't post in threads like this but reading through this was frustrating....

Listening to the presser and the Coach's radio show last night, Austin ran the risk of being academically ineligible for the entire season. He worked in the spring semester and all through summer school to make improvements and get to the point where it was only a 2 game suspension. NDSU provides him the resources to be successful as a student athlete but it is up to him to take advantage. Sounds like he is on the right path going forward. Best of luck to him.

Is the 2 game suspension common? I've never heard of being partially ineligible before. I thought you were eligible or not eligible?

[bisonaudit]

Is the 2 game suspension common? I've never heard of being partially ineligible before. I thought you were eligible or not eligible?

http://www.ncaa.org/about/division-i-progress-toward-degree-requirements

Speculation: He didn't meet the progress requirements as of the end of the fall term. He got himself back in compliance over the spring and summer. They applied for a waiver and got the penalty under 14.4.3.1.6 (see 2nd table in the link) reduced from 4 games to 2 games.

EDIT:

Page 6 of the attached lays out the condition for having the suspension reduced from 4 to 2. (27 credits over Spring and Summer terms).

http://fs.ncaa.org/docs/regional_seminars/2012/PowerPoint%20Presentations/Division%20I/Division%20I%20Progress%20Toward%20Degree%20ONLINE .pdf

[Twentysix]

Wow 1.8 gpa minimum? Some of these people probably shouldn't be in college...

[bisonaudit]

Wow 1.8 gpa minimum? Some of these people probably shouldn't be in college...

We could stop pretending they're students of anything other than football and just pay them to entertain us.

[CAS4127]

We could stop pretending they're students of anything other than football and just pay them to entertain us.

And you can stop being such an arrogant dickwad. The football team is a reflection of the entire student body as far as academics, and maybe a better than mirror image actually--as far as graduation rate and GPA.


Sent from my iPhone.

[tony]

We could stop pretending they're students of anything other than football and just pay them to entertain us.

Meh, I was a student despite completing very few credits per quarter (yeah, it was quarters back then.)

[BisonHorns]

So Coprich can sell drugs to a cop and not miss a play, but a student who fell behind in credits then did 26 to catch up has to miss two games. Head scratcher.

[bisonaudit]

And you can stop being such an arrogant dickwad. The football team is a reflection of the entire student body as far as academics, and maybe a better than mirror image actually--as far as graduation rate and GPA.


Sent from my iPhone.

It seems like maybe you've interpreted what I wrote as some sort of swipe at the intellect of football players. That wasn't my intention at all. You can't be dumb and play football at an elite level. There's a ton of information that you have to process each and every week and integrate in such a way that you're still reacting more than thinking on the field. That's an incredibly difficult thing to do.

No. My problem is with the NCAA and their stupid amateurism rules that punish kids for the sole purpose of protecting a bureaucrat's payday.

[southcliffbison]

I thought FCOA was supposed to help alleviate these financial concerns of student/athletes. I am sure it has somewhat, but not to the extent that some on here would like.

[bisonaudit]

I thought FCOA was supposed to help alleviate these financial concerns of student/athletes. I am sure it has somewhat, but not to the extent that some on here would like.

I could give a shit about a student or an athlete's financial situation. I just think they should get paid what they are worth in the market rather than the benefits of a system of indentured servitude accruing to a bunch of empty suits who's only job is to administer a system of rules designed expressly to perpetuate their own position.

[PattyBison]

I could give a shit about a student or an athlete's financial situation. I just think they should get paid what they are worth in the market rather than the benefits of a system of indentured servitude accruing to a bunch of empty suits who's only job is to administer a system of rules designed expressly to perpetuate their own position.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but your comment "stop pretending they're students of anything other than football and just pay them to entertain us" is an incredibly horrible way to make your point.

[PattyBison]

I could give a shit about a student or an athlete's financial situation. I just think they should get paid what they are worth in the market rather than the benefits of a system of indentured servitude accruing to a bunch of empty suits who's only job is to administer a system of rules designed expressly to perpetuate their own position.

And if you really find the current system intolerable, aren't you part of the problem by continuing to support it? I guess if I found something as offensive as you find the current collegiate athletics model, I would chose to quit following it.

[bisonaudit]

I understand the point you are trying to make, but your comment "stop pretending they're students of anything other than football and just pay them to entertain us" is an incredibly horrible way to make your point.

If a person wants to get an education and play football that's great. It's probably a smart thing to do. Even if they are getting paid a legitimate wage for their work as minor league football players most of them aren't going to be able to make enough for long enough playing football to set themselves up so they're going to need another profession.

But, if they don't want to do that, who's the NCAA to tell them otherwise? The eligibility standards are a farce. They don't exist to ensure progress toward a degree. They exist to perpetuate the myth of amateurism.

[GoRams]

This is a bummer. Got to be a learning experience for Austin. The staff does everything they can do to keep guys eligible. I played in the mid 2000's and even then they checked classes and grades constantly. If a guy even started to slip in grades you had to attend a special student athlete academics class which was basically an extra study hall with built in responsibility and task management teaching. It was horribly boring and you didn't want to be in that class. I'm sure it's probably even more involved now. I think they do all they can administratively. If you manage to get through all of that and still fail that is really on the student because they really aren't giving an effort.

Gives a chance to the new guys and hopefully teaches Austin a valuable life lesson.

[PattyBison]

If a person wants to get an education and play football that's great. It's probably a smart thing to do. Even if they are getting paid a legitimate wage for their work as minor league football players most of them aren't going to be able to make enough for long enough playing football to set themselves up so they're going to need another profession.

But, if they don't want to do that, who's the NCAA to tell them otherwise? The eligibility standards are a farce. They don't exist to ensure progress toward a degree. They exist to perpetuate the myth of amateurism.

But your comment said that the belief that players are pursuing an education is a farce. That is just outright wrong. It may be appropriate for certain individuals but most certainly not all or even most student athletes.

[bisonaudit]

And if you really find the current system intolerable, aren't you part of the problem by continuing to support it? I guess if I found something as offensive as you find the current collegiate athletics model, I would chose to quit following it.

Why would I do that? Is my position hypocritical? Maybe. Am I conflicted about it? Yes, somewhat. However I'm also not sure how fewer dollars going into the system would improve the odds of meaningful reform. And it's entertaining as all get out.

[bisonaudit]

But your comment said that the belief that players are pursuing an education is a farce. That is just outright wrong. It may be appropriate for certain individuals but most certainly not all or even most student athletes.

I think I've said three times now that wasn't my intention.

[PattyBison]

Why would I do that? Is my position hypocritical? Maybe. Am I conflicted about it? Yes, somewhat. However I'm also not sure how fewer dollars going into the system would improve the odds of meaningful reform. And it's entertaining as all get out.

Ok. Got it. You feel that young men/women are being deliberately exploited but your few bucks don't make a difference and it is entertaining as all get out. Thanks for clarifying.

[PattyBison]

I think I've said three times now that, that wasn't my intention.

But it is exactly what you said...

[bisonaudit]

But it is exactly what you said...

If you want to continue to disregard both the context of my initial statement (A reply to a post expressing surprise at the NCAA's GPA standard) as well as my subsequent statements. There's nothing more I can do for you.

[bisonaudit]

Ok. Got it. You feel that young men/women are being deliberately exploited but your few bucks don't make a difference and it is entertaining as all get out. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm not sure how shrinking the size of the pie makes it more likely Mark Emmert is going to start paying these guys.

But, maybe that's just complete self justification on my part.

[PattyBison]

If you want to continue to disregard both the context of my initial statement (A reply to a post expressing surprise at the GPA standard) as well as my subsequent statements. There's nothing more I can do for you.

At the end of the day, you said this "We could stop pretending they're students of anything other than football and just pay them to entertain us. " If you can't understand what that means, there's nothing more I can do for you.

[PattyBison]

I'm not sure how shrinking the size of the pie makes it more likely Mark Emmert is going to start paying these guys.

But, maybe that's just complete self justification on my part.

I vote self justification. You can easily swap other scenarios into your comment and see it.

[bisonaudit]

At the end of the day, you said this "We could stop pretending they're students of anything other than football and just pay them to entertain us. " If you can't understand what that means, there's nothing more I can do for you.

I know what I meant.

I wrote it.

I also understand that I'm at least partly responsible for how people read it. Which is why we've been doing this now for the last 4 or 5 rounds. But as some point that responsibility comes to an end.

[PattyBison]

I know what I meant.

I wrote it.

I also understand that I'm at least partly responsible for how people read it. Which is why we've been doing this now for the last 4 or 5 rounds. But as some point that responsibility comes to an end.

You are seriously trying to say this is a reading comprehension issue? Give me a break.

[bisonaudit]

You are seriously trying to say this is a reading comprehension issue? Give me a break.

No. It was a writing composition issue.

[Bisonfanatical]

So Coprich can sell drugs to a cop and not miss a play, but a student who fell behind in credits then did 26 to catch up has to miss two games. Head scratcher.
Makes you wonder ... doesn't it?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[17>1]

So Coprich can sell drugs to a cop and not miss a play, but a student who fell behind in credits then did 26 to catch up has to miss two games. Head scratcher.


Makes you wonder ... doesn't it?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I know Coach said it was the NCAA that handed down the suspension, but maybe NDSU and the staff decided to hand it down? If that's the case, it reinforces the standard that is expected from NDSU student athletes, and I love that they are high (no pun intended). It's what separates us from the rest of the bunch.

[Bisonfanatical]

I agree that Bison live a standard of excellence.

They are an exciting team to watch year after year. And they bring great honor to themselves with their conduct on the field and off the field.

Can't wait till Saturday! !!!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[BisonFanAnn]

Wow 1.8 gpa minimum? Some of these people probably shouldn't be in college...

The GPA requirement at NDSU is 2.0. If a student gets less than 2.0 for a given semester, and/or the cumulative GPA goes below 2.0, they receive and academic warning. A second semester of less than 2.0 puts them on academic probation.

NCAA rules are not that different from NDSU.

[southcliffbison]

I know what I meant.

I wrote it.

I also understand that I'm at least partly responsible for how people read it. Which is why we've been doing this now for the last 4 or 5 rounds. But as some point that responsibility comes to an end.

I am going to add a little more fuel to this fire regarding pay for players; then stop. What are college football players worth in today's market? Who would determine their value........the individual school or the NCAA? Who is going to pay the bill for this practice......the ND legislature (NOT ON YOUR LIFE), Teammakers, the Athletic Department ???? Does a TE receive less than a DE ? How about your nickel DB; since he's only in during passing downs......can't be worth too much, right? How about your stud Special Team's player? How many plays is he in on? Really, Audit, I think this is delusional thinking on your part and I suspect that you've been hanging out with SiouxStar2VolleyCity and eating out of the same bowl.

[bisonaudit]

I am going to add a little more fuel to this fire regarding pay for players; then stop. What are college football players worth in today's market? Who would determine their value........the individual school or the NCAA? Who is going to pay the bill for this practice......the ND legislature (NOT ON YOUR LIFE), Teammakers, the Athletic Department ???? Does a TE receive less than a DE ? How about your nickel DB; since he's only in during passing downs......can't be worth too much, right? How about your stud Special Team's player? How many plays is he in on? Really, Audit, I think this is delusional thinking on your part and I suspect that you've been hanging out SiouxStar2VolleyCity and eating out of the same bowl.

The NFL seems to have figured it out. Right along with every other business in the country for the last 150+ years. Except for shamature athletics.

[CAS4127]

The NFL seems to have figured it out.

Just my .02, but I feel like I got paid to play, having graduated with two majors, two minors and no debt in five years. Sure I worked during the summer months for spending money, but that was a resume' builder IMO.

[ByeSonBusiness]

Just my .02, but I feel like I got paid to play, having graduated with two majors, two minors and no debt in five years. Sure I worked during the summer months for spending money, but that was a resume' builder IMO.

Not to mention you get a play a game. I'll never feel bad for the players.

[bisonaudit]

Not to mention you get a play a game. I'll never feel bad for the players.

No one is asking for your pity. They're not charity cases. They're employees.

[onbison09]

Does anyone know if he was playing in spring ball or did we know this was coming?

[56BISON73]

I know Coach said it was the NCAA that handed down the suspension, but maybe NDSU and the staff decided to hand it down? If that's the case, it reinforces the standard that is expected from NDSU student athletes, and I love that they are high (no pun intended). It's what separates us from the rest of the bunch.

Didnt you read the NCAA rules?

[17>1]

Didnt you read the NCAA rules?

Nope, I didn't. I was just throwing out some speculation as to why maybe NDSU handled Kuhnert differently than ISUr handled Coprich. I'm sure I missed some important information that negates my speculations so I'll try to keep up :)

[Mr. Burgundy]

Nope, I didn't. I was just throwing out some speculation as to why maybe NDSU handled Kuhnert differently than ISUr handled Coprich. I'm sure I missed some important information that negates my speculations so I'll try to keep up :)

The two cases you listed...have nothing to do with eachother.

[17>1]

The two cases you listed...have nothing to do with eachother.

Right, I get it. I didn't bring up the Coprich thing in the first place, and was only spitballin' some thoughts on how the NCAA and NDSU thinks about illegal activities and education. I didn't read the rules, my bad. I'll just back out of a conversation that I know nothing about and will continue to just focus on football.

[Bison20]

Just my .02, but I feel like I got paid to play, having graduated with two majors, two minors and no debt in five years. Sure I worked during the summer months for spending money, but that was a resume' builder IMO.

I agree with you. A free college education with no debt is a huge advantage when graduating. How many students can say they left with a degree and not thousands of dollars in student loans. People act like they don't get any benefits from playing sports, that seems like a pretty good benefit to me.

[Christopher Moen]

I agree with you. A free college education with no debt is a huge advantage when graduating. How many students can say they left with a degree and not thousands of dollars in student loans. People act like they don't get any benefits from playing sports, that seems like a pretty good benefit to me.

It's not "free." These athletes who receive scholarships have to earn it via hard work.

[Bison20]

It's not "free." These athletes who receive scholarships have to earn it via hard work.

They do work very hard with practices and lifting and watching film. But how many students can say they graduated and don't have any loans. That's thousands of dollars they don't have to pay each year, just staying that they do get compensated for playing football.

[Christopher Moen]

They do work very hard with practices and lifting and watching film. But how many students can say they graduated and don't have any loans. That's thousands of dollars they don't have to pay each year, just staying that they do get compensated for playing football.

Students who aren't athletes also get the option of working hard at job(s) to pay for their school or working hard on their education to receive an academic scholarship. Those students wouldn't be considered receiving a "free" education either. Unless a student comes from a wealthy background, no higher education is "free."

[CAS4127]

It's not "free." These athletes who receive scholarships have to earn it via hard work.

True, but it's also very fun. There is a benefit. To have the opportunity to play in front of thousands of people, and have them cheer for you because you have performed well is indescribable. It's the nuts and makes us feel like we gave back what was given to us, as in scholarship money.

That said, I both got my world rocked (think concussions) and rocked some myself ... stories told at TOHBTC site.

Peace out for the night.


Sent from my iPhone.

[Bison20]

Students who aren't athletes also get the option of working hard at job(s) to pay for their school or working hard on their education to receive an academic scholarship. Those students wouldn't be considered receiving a "free" education either. Unless a student comes from a wealthy background, no higher education is "free."

OK I could have used different wording than free because I do understand how hard they work. There are tons of students who also work jobs and go to school and work their asses off. Even with them working hard at jobs do you think they come close to paying for their education? Most of those students are working minimum wage jobs and still leave with thousands in student loans. I'm just sick of people acting like they don't get any benefits from playing sports

[Christopher Moen]

OK I could have used different wording than free because I do understand how hard they work. There are tons of students who also work jobs and go to school and work their asses off. Even with them working hard at jobs do you think they come close to paying for their education? Most of those students are working minimum wage jobs and still leave with thousands in student loans. I'm just sick of people acting like they don't get any benefits from playing sports

When you consider the sacrifices, the emotional anguish, the concussions, the physical injuries that will last a lifetime among the many consequences of being a student-athlete, those "benefits" are a small token of appreciation.

It's not easy being a student-athlete. That's was so few can do it for four to five years.

[56BISON73]

OK I could have used different wording than free because I do understand how hard they work. There are tons of students who also work jobs and go to school and work their asses off. Even with them working hard at jobs do you think they come close to paying for their education? Most of those students are working minimum wage jobs and still leave with thousands in student loans. I'm just sick of people acting like they don't get any benefits from playing sports

Considering the hours an athlete puts in I think working would be easier. Football is pretty much a 7 day a week job during the season.. You are basically working out twice a day. Then have meetings and then film study. Some where in there you are going to class.
We wont go in to the short and long term effects of injuries etc.

[Twentysix]

The GPA requirement at NDSU is 2.0. If a student gets less than 2.0 for a given semester, and/or the cumulative GPA goes below 2.0, they receive and academic warning. A second semester of less than 2.0 puts them on academic probation.

NCAA rules are not that different from NDSU.

I mean that is pretty different at an institution like NDSU though, the difference between a 1.8 and a 2.0 I mean. A 1.8 GUARANTEES that the student failed to earn credit for a course because a 1.8 is impossible without Ds and Fs. Straight Cs is a 2.0 and as of two years ago (probably still the case) NDSU does not award + or - indicators. At a school with C- as a grade a 1.8 could be straight C-s but is impossible at NDSU (or was, probably still is).

And if you are getting Ds in anything that you knowingly signed up for... you just aren't trying, or aren't meant for whatever you are trying to do.

NDSU is an incredibly lax academic environment unless you are trying to kick your own ass with hardcore math classes etc. If they are getting Ds something is wrong with their situation. NDSU has certainly had some athletes that kick their own asses with courses (i.e. Jemison was in Ancient Philosophy with me), and NDSU certainly has some athletes that are lax as f*** (kuhnert and 3 others were in refereeing football with me and missed half the classes). For some weird reason the athletic department had someone check on Jemison to make sure he attended every single Ancient Philosophy class (they appeared about 20 min into the class without fail), but that never happened for refereeing football. Maybe the policy changed.

[Twentysix]

NDSU pretty typically uses a 10 point grading scale without + or -.

100-90 A 4.0
89-80 B 3.0
79-70 C 2.0
69-60 D 1.0
59-0 F 0

At NDSU you can pull a 4.0 with pure 90s (on the dot) your entire career, at least you could in all of my 160+ credits.

At my current school pure 92s would net you a 3.7. So NCAA standards are definitely not the same across the NCAA because of institutional variation at the absolute minimum.

So lets assume that the courses were identical at UCSD and NDSU (they aren't) and they were graded exactly the same. An athlete getting straight 70s at NDSU has a 2.0 GPA and the athlete getting straight 70s at UCSD is getting a 1.7 GPA. Now NDSUs 2.0 GPA is actually more lenient than the NCAA minimum, because grading scales (along with difficulty and leniency) vary significantly by institution as well as the possibility of a C- worth 0.3 GPA points less than a C which is handed out for the same percentage score at a different institution because they lack the +/- system.

http://blink.ucsd.edu/instructors/academic-info/grades/system.html

I use the University of California and North Dakota State University as my examples because those are the only schools I've attended personally, but I am quite sure there are even more examples of variance that other posters could add.

[Bison20]

Considering the hours an athlete puts in I think working would be easier. Football is pretty much a 7 day a week job during the season.. You are basically working out twice a day. Then have meetings and then film study. Some where in there you are going to class.
We wont go in to the short and long term effects of injuries etc.

Yes I know they work very hard. I'm just saying the cost of an education is around 15-20 grand a year, think about how much that comes out to after 3-5 years. Just seems funny to me when people act like these kids don't get any compensation for playing football.

[1998braves64]

Yes I know they work very hard. I'm just saying the cost of an education is around 15-20 grand a year, think about how much that comes out to after 3-5 years. Just seems funny to me when people act like these kids don't get any compensation for playing football.

What bothers me a bit too is stating that working a job for as many hours that athlete puts in you could pay for your school education too. So lets just take low end $15,000 a year for education so if somehow especially a high schooler or younger college aged kid gets a $15/hr job @ 1,000 hours a year is ~20 hours a week every week of the year. That doesn't count for the taxes that would involve or even paying for discretionary items such as gas to get to the job and insurance on car etc. Then go to school for 18-20 credit hours to graduate in 4-5 years... I can't imagine that would be any less hard work just in different ways. So yes don't "discount" the fact that a scholarship doesn't help getting the education part. Don't get me wrong not saying that this is easy. But now days getting a higher education is getting less and less easy by the year no matter how you achieve it.

There are benefits and cons to both sides. So lets just agree going to college is not for a slouch whether your an athlete or whether your an academic or whether you're a average joe working to make money to pay for it or you're a silver spoon and mom and dad pay for every last bit of it Athletes get benefit that if they are "good" they can essentially get out of college debt free (and like everyone else if they play it cool/smart with their finances) and can start putting their career earnings towards retirement earlier than someone who accumulates debt. You get to join a camaraderie that last a lifetime. You get to experience something many people don't in playing in a college football game. I'm sure not one of us HS football players that never did college ball didn't feel a twinge of wishing we were on the field when NDSU won the 5 national championships (not that is a guarantee for any college kid playing football..). I know I did. The downside is they get physically beat up some which may last a lifetime. They have to work out and put in lots of practice/film time.

That said I'm ever grateful for the privilege offered me to get my higher education, as my parents saw it as something very important to get so they offered their help but didn't pay all of it as I ended up with manageable student debt at the end that was paid off in 6-7 years, and I don't feel like I wasted any of that offer frivolously, as I did my best to do well and get good grades and stay out of trouble. Disclaimer: I did not graduate from NDSU, I went for one year and transferred to NDSCS and did 2 years and got my degree(s) there. It would have been same though whether NDSU or NDSCS imo.

I don't discount the players work ethic and "sacrifice" but to dismiss being out of college with a degree and little to no debt as not being a "benefit" is slightly twisting the truth, especially in this day and age where it appears that college education is becoming a bit less achievable. Trying not to sound like a liberal hippie that college should be free for everyone, but at same time have to recognize that cost of attendance is increasing like many other things yet more and more American's wages are stagnant, or so they say. College degrees are becoming more and more valuable in my opinion, because it seems either by choice or finances that fewer and fewer are getting degrees.

[TateMosersneighbor]

They do work very hard with practices and lifting and watching film. But how many students can say they graduated and don't have any loans. That's thousands of dollars they don't have to pay each year, just staying that they do get compensated for playing football.

I worked 3 jobs and was in the National Guard to help pay for college. Sold some body fluids to PRACS too, only weights I lifted were pounders. I had debt ONLY because I choose to take out the maximum I could my last semester to live it up a bit. I bought golf clubs (which I still use), a grill and a bike and the rest I invested at Chubs.

What are we arguing about? These kids at NDSU that play sports SHOULD be compensated and they are...ANY college kid can graduate with very little or no debt at all if they work their ass off and make good choices (like is going to Stanford really going to matter when you're 35 and busting your ass working for the man?).

[56BISON73]

Yes I know they work very hard. I'm just saying the cost of an education is around 15-20 grand a year, think about how much that comes out to after 3-5 years. Just seems funny to me when people act like these kids don't get any compensation for playing football.

The athletes are compensated. But at the FCS level they arent compensated like they are in FBS. Many are on partials in the FCS. So its not like its a free ride for most.
Even with that lets compare a few things. Lets say its 20k a year and you go 4 years. Youre looking at 80K if you worked you wont owe that much.
But lets still take the 80K. What does a brand new ranger boat cost???? Around 80K. SUVs? 40-50K. etc etc

Kid have had student loans since I can remember. Why the big bitch now?

[ByeSonBusiness]

I worked 3 jobs and was in the National Guard to help pay for college. Sold some body fluids to PRACS too, only weights I lifted were pounders. I had debt ONLY because I choose to take out the maximum I could my last semester to live it up a bit. I bought golf clubs (which I still use), a grill and a bike and the rest I invested at Chubs.

What are we arguing about? These kids at NDSU that play sports SHOULD be compensated and they are...ANY college kid can graduate with very little or no debt at all if they work their ass off and make good choices (like is going to Stanford really going to matter when you're 35 and busting your ass working for the man?).

Going to Stanford can certainly change what man you are working for.

[thebootfitter]

Part of the issue that is not being mentioned here as far as I can see is the fact that lots of dollars are being generated by the "work" college football players are putting in. LOTS of dollars. Certainly far less at the FCS level, but when you consider the amount of revenue that is earned because of the hard work of a bunch of college students and then consider whether they are being paid a commensurate amount... I think the answer is pretty clear.

I'm not advocating any particular solution to this injustice. Just making an observation.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

[Bison20]

Part of the issue that is not being mentioned here as far as I can see is the fact that lots of dollars are being generated by the "work" college football players are putting in. LOTS of dollars. Certainly far less at the FCS level, but when you consider the amount of revenue that is earned because of the hard work of a bunch of college students and then consider whether they are being paid a commensurate amount... I think the answer is pretty clear.

I'm not advocating any particular solution to this injustice. Just making an observation.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

Do you know if that money is used to upgrade things such as the new weight lifting room in the Shaq, the new video boards, the new turf?

[Hammersmith]

The athletes are compensated. But at the FCS level they arent compensated like they are in FBS. Many are on partials in the FCS. So its not like its a free ride for most.
Even with that lets compare a few things. Lets say its 20k a year and you go 4 years. Youre looking at 80K if you worked you wont owe that much.
But lets still take the 80K. What does a brand new ranger boat cost???? Around 80K. SUVs? 40-50K. etc etc

Kid have had student loans since I can remember. Why the big bitch now?

Like bootfitter said, it's the amount of money flowing in that has changed. While there's always been big money at big schools, it's gotten out of control in the last couple decades. TV contracts and big donors have pushed budgets into the $100M range at some schools. TAMU almost broke $200M last year. When you've got that much flowing in every year, and you say it's fair that the kids mostly responsible for it are getting the equivalent of $15k-$20k, that's when some people start to smell something.

It's not a massive problem at our level, but it's concerning at the mid/high P5 level.

[56BISON73]

Like bootfitter said, it's the amount of money flowing in that has changed. While there's always been big money at big schools, it's gotten out of control in the last couple decades. TV contracts and big donors have pushed budgets into the $100M range at some schools. TAMU almost broke $200M last year. When you've got that much flowing in every year, and you say it's fair that the kids mostly responsible for it are getting the equivalent of $15k-$20k, that's when some people start to smell something.

It's not a massive problem at our level, but it's concerning at the mid/high P5 level.

This really isnt new. I can remember hearing basically the same thing back in the early 70s when there was a certain enlightenment toward the establishment. There were a few at iowa that were very vocal about how athletes were exploited and the most vulnerable because we had no rights or representation. It keeps raising it ugly head when some are looking to stir the pot or need a cause to wave a flag.