President Chapman quote on the WAC and MWC

[pwbnd]

If the Mid-Con or Big Sky don’t work out, Chapman said he wouldn’t rule out a run at either the Western Athletic or the Mountain West conferences. Both leagues compete in Division I-A football, which carries an 85-scholarship maximum.

The Division I-AA max is 63.

“We’ll make that decision when it is appropriate,” Chapman said. “It’s fair to say we want to be at the highest level we can be at. Everything is on the table.”

But Taylor said his office doesn’t spend much time on that issue.

“We’re still focusing on the Mid-Con or the Big Sky,” he said.

Don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but in today's Forum, President Chapman had this to say about possibly joining the WAC or Mountain West.

[MplsBison]

I could see us in the future WAC with Idaho, Utah State, etc.

[BisonBacker]

This is exaclty the reason we wanted him to stay here. The man has a vision for the future of NDSU and thinks outside the proverbial box.

[insane_ponderer]

Not to mention, the way the man steps up and delivers.

We all thought he was crazy when he announced the move but seriously, he made believers really fast.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I noticed that quote and found it pretty damn interesting. Chapman is a real visionary and he will make it all work out very, very well.....

[BisonMav]

Both conference's have 9 teams. Are any planning on bolting to other conference? Nine seems to be a preferable number for a conference.

[DenverBison05]

Actually 9 teams only seems to work for football, most of the other sports perfer having an even number of teams, so that there can be travelling partners.

[silkamilkamonico]

Yeesh. Don't know what to think. I don't think I could ever be as excited for a season knowing that NDSU has virtually no shot ever of being anywhere close to a National Championship.

[buffalobill]

Times are a'changin. Look forward not back!!!

[SDbison]

Surprised Sambini is not all over this news:
WAC ATTACK
WAC ATTACK
++++++++++++++++++

[Paulie]

He would only make this statement if there was already a double secret backdoor agreement in place to join the WAC.

Yes, I am Star2City in disguise. ;D

[BisonMav]

Here you go Sambini 8) ;D
http://www.wac.co.uk/wac25/media/merchandise/girl-t-shirt.gif

[MplsBison]

Yeesh. Don't know what to think. I don't think I could ever be as excited for a season knowing that NDSU has virtually no shot ever of being anywhere close to a National Championship.



But what is a I-AA championship worth?

Would you beas excited with a large bowl win? Obviously not a BCS bowl (though I will stick to my guns on if Boise State can do it, so can NDSU), but maybe something medium.

[TransAmBison]

But what is a I-AA championship worth?

Would you beas *excited with a large bowl win? Obviously not a BCS bowl (though I will stick to my guns on if Boise State can do it, so can NDSU), but maybe something medium.
I tend to think a I-AA championship is worth a lot. Exactly what does some bowl game mean? It isn't like you can say we went all the way...we played the best. It would be like playing one game in a tournament for 22nd place consolation prize. Just doesn't make sense to me.

[semobison]

Playoff football is exciting as it gets. Playing for the championship is what the Bison have always strived for. 1AA all the way!

[MplsBison]

If playoff football is the best, why are the DI-AA, DII, and DIII playoffs on ESPN2 and the BCS on FOX and ABC?

[semobison]

When are we EVER going to a BCS bowl? Get real.

[lakesbison]

I for one.. hope they abolish 1-AA.... and just add about 4 more bowl games.

There are MANY sections of the USA that get totally shut out as far as BOWL coverage is concerned..

I could see a BOWL game in Minneapolis... Indianapolis.... Denver.... New York City.... ...

you could add smaller bowl games and have a playoff series for the MID MAJORS vs major Conferences


Montana vs Illinois
Ga South vs Boston College
App State vs Auburn
NDSU vs UCLA

teams advances in 3 week playoff for WALMART Championships..... ha ha..

[silkamilkamonico]

I tend to think a I-AA championship is worth a lot. *Exactly what does some bowl game mean? *It isn't like you can say we went all the way...we played the best. *It would be like playing one game in a tournament for 22nd place consolation prize. *Just doesn't make sense to me.


COuldn't have said it better myself.

Nobody cares about 2 teams that are an incredible 6-5 battling it out for the motor city bowl championship in front of an attendance of 2000people or less.

yay.

[silkamilkamonico]

If playoff football is the best, why are the DI-AA, DII, and DIII playoffs on ESPN2 and the BCS on FOX and ABC?

Because of the money hungry organization called the BcS. Teams outside of the 6 major power conferences virtually have no shot of ever tasting a BSC bowl bid. Because the BSC has contracts with those 6 power conferences o attend their games.

What they should do, is have those 6 conferences that are affiliated with the BcSin their own division, and everyone else outside of the BcS be a made Division 1 AA and have the oppurtunityfor playoffs.

Was it 2 years ago when 5 teams finished the season undefeated? Some "sport". No wonder why college football is an absolute laughing stock outside of the US because of the supposed "playoff system".

[BisonMav]

You're not actually trying to argue that a bowl game between 2 teams that are 6-5, or 7-4, is actual more important then a playoff game between 2 teams that have earned their way to play in a championship game at their respective level, are you?

Who's 6-5 or 7-4? :)

[silkamilkamonico]

Who's 6-5 or 7-4? *:)

yeahyeah.

I'll try to argue one thing from the players perspective. At least in Division 1AA, the winner's of the championship game can walk away with a sense of major accomlishment from the season and the comfort of knowing they were the best team in a divsion that allows X number of scholarships.

Throughout the years, the undefeated teams in Division 1A can't really even acknowledge that, because there have been other superior programs that have gone undefeated, and not even have had that oppurtunity.

Just sad, imho.

[semobison]

+++++++++++++++++ I would be all for a 1A football playoff. Its not going to happen anytime soon. Playoff football, Ahh... win you keep playing, lose you go home. That is the way champiomships are suppose to be won.


yeahyeah.

I'll try to argue one thing from the players perspective. *At least in Division 1AA, the winner's of the championship game can walk away with a sense of major accomlishment from the season and the comfort of knowing they were the best team in a divsion that allows X number of scholarships.

Throughout the years, the undefeated teams in Division 1A can't really even acknowledge that, because there have been other superior programs that have gone undefeated, and not even have had that oppurtunity.

Just sad, imho.

[kchats]

I like hearing President Chapman mention that they will look at all possibilities to get into a conference. I think he understands that the most important thing is to get the entire athletic department in a conference. You all forget that President Chapman is the person doing most of the talking and negotiating with the conferences. If he gets the message that the mid-major conferences aren't interested in expanding and the WAC and Mountain West are what would you do? I will trust President Chapman and Gene Taylor to do what is best for NDSU and that is membership in a conference. If nothing happens with the Big Sky Conference or the Mid-Con this spring I wouldn't be surprised if President Chapman doesn't approach the WAC and Mountain West to gage their interest.

[SUILB#28]

I think the I-AA championship vs. I-A bowl game debate is really interesting. On the one hand, in the long run, saying you are the I-AA champion is a nice feather in your cap to have and shows a good tradition of success. However, I think in the short run, kids are looking to play at the highest level possible, and saying you have a chance to play in a I-A bowl game may hold more weight in recruiting. Either way, I think NDSU will be in I-AA long enough to make a real push at the national championship, and then hopefully will be albe to make the jump to I-A football.

[OrygunBison]

Three things:

1.) The WAC and/or MWC aren't that big of a stretch. We could compete now, be a top of conference team regularly in the near future.

2.) There will be an 8 or 12 team playoff in IA by the time we're ready for them. It's just inevitible that it'll change. I give the BCS 2 more cycles and their done. We'll also still have some other bowl games for the 'almost-as-good-as' teams.

3.) Where the hell is Sambini?

[Leonardite]

I don't put a lot of stock in this argument as it is, but there is one thing that irks me. *The WAC and the Moutain West are presented as sister conferences on this board which simply isn't true. *The Mountain West was formed by former WAC schools (many of them founding members) who disagreed with the WAC's we-are-the-world expansion of the mid-1990's and looked to carve out a more elite conference in the western US to compliment the PAC-10. *The WAC, meanwhile, is composed of the teams left behind and retreads from the Sun Belt and the defunct Big West. *There is a BIG difference.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think the I-AA championship vs. I-A bowl game debate is really interesting. On the one hand, in the long run, saying you are the I-AA champion is a nice feather in your cap to have and shows a good tradition of success. However, I think in the short run, kids are looking to play at the highest level possible, and saying you have a chance to play in a I-A bowl game may hold more weight in recruiting. Either way, I think NDSU will be in I-AA long enough to make a real push at the national championship, and then hopefully will be albe to make the jump to I-A football.


I am with you on this. However, the comments about the WAC and the MWC get a Bison fan pretty darn excited about the future!

[WYOBISONMAN]

I don't put a lot of stock in this argument as it is, but there is one thing that irks me. The WAC and the Moutain West are presented as sister conferences on this board which simply isn't true. The Mountain West was formed by former WAC schools (many of them founding members) who disagreed with the WAC's we-are-the-world expansion of the mid-1990's and looked to carve out a more elite conference in the western US to compliment the PAC-10. The WAC, meanwhile, is composed of the teams left behind and retreads from the Sun Belt and the defunct Big West. There is a BIG difference.


True also........

[OrygunBison]

I don't put a lot of stock in this argument as it is, but there is one thing that irks me. *The WAC and the Moutain West are presented as sister conferences on this board which simply isn't true. *The Mountain West was formed by former WAC schools (many of them founding members) who disagreed with the WAC's we-are-the-world expansion of the mid-1990's and looked to carve out a more elite conference in the western US to compliment the PAC-10. *The WAC, meanwhile, is composed of the teams left behind and retreads from the Sun Belt and the defunct Big West. *There is a BIG difference.

Yeah, I hear you on the difference, and yes, it is a big one. It still doesn't affect my feeling that neither would be a big stretch. Stretch, yes, but not insurmountable. Also, while regularly playing San Diego State, BYU and Colo St. would be very fun, I wouldn't shake a stick at Boise St., Fresno St. and Hawaii.

Either conference would be fun. How many more games would YOU attend.

I'm a little biased on this, though, since more away games would be closer to me with this move. A Big Sky affiliation still gets me one game every two years about a mile from my house...if PSU were to stay in the conference...

Anyway, just a thought.

[MplsBison]

Teams outside of the 6 major power conferences virtually have no shot of ever tasting a BSC bowl bid.

Utah?

Notre Dame?

[silkamilkamonico]

Utah?

Notre Dame?

Utah is an exception. They needed 3 great seasons to even get that oppurtunity to play in a bcs game. And look at Utah. They finished the season undefeated, and didn't even have an oppurtunity to become the best. Talk to their players how they got screwed by the system. "Yeah, we finished undefeated, demolishing every single team we played by 21+ points, and ended the season the #6 team. We still didn't have an oppurtunity. Why? Because 4 other teamsd finished the season undefeated also."

My love/pride for the sport that NDSU has played in so long would continue to dwindle. If NDSU ever makes the jump up to Divison 1 A, say goodbye to any dominant history or tradition the program once had, because it will never even have the oppurtunity say it was dominant again.

I don't even know why you brought up Notre Dame. They're the only college program in the entire nation, at any sport and at any level, that basically gets a free pass because of the contract that they have with the BCS. They had no buisness even being in a BSC game. The first college football team to lose to a team that finishes the season with more losses then wins. Not to mention their most impressive win was against Navy.

The chances that NDSU will ever make it out of the bottom dweller in Division 1A is slim. ANd that may be only for a season or so. At least we would have the 1980's and Division 2 National Championships to live on with.

[NDSUstudent]

Currently there is a thread about adding NDSU on the WAC board. Here is the link

http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/wac/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=13409#13409

[MplsBison]

The chances that NDSU will ever make it out of the bottom dweller in Division 1A is slim. ANd that may be only for a season or so. At least we would have the 1980's and Division 2 National Championships to live on with.




If Boise can do it, NDSU can do it.

[MplsBison]

Hmm.

I wonder how realistic a move to the WAC is.


Say the Big East takes ECU as a 9th football member.

Then CUSA takes LA Tech to get back to 12 members.


That leaves the WAC with 8. They could add two to get to 10 or add four to get to 12.

Add two:

Sac State
UC Davis

Add four:

Sac State
UC Davis
NDSU?
SDSU?

The scenario could be further complicated if Montana or Montana State is thrown into the mix. As well, UND could throw it's hat in the middle.


And there's also the MWC. They could take three from the WAC (Boise, Nevada, and Fresno) to get to 12. Then the WAC would have to add 5 or 7!

[Gamehunter]

Hmm.

I wonder how realistic a move to the WAC is.


Say the Big East takes ECU as a 9th football member.

Then CUSA takes LA Tech to get back to 12 members.


That leaves the WAC with 8. They could add two to get to 10 or add four to get to 12.

Add two:

Sac State
UC Davis

Add four:

Sac State
UC Davis
NDSU?
SDSU?

The scenario could be further complicated if Montana or Montana State is thrown into the mix. As well, UND could throw it's hat in the middle.


And there's also the MWC. They could take three from the WAC (Boise, Nevada, and Fresno) to get to 12. Then the WAC would have to add 5 or 7!


realisticly I don't think any of those schools except for NDSU actually has much of a chance at competing in the WAC in the near future. Sac St. is supposedly getting some nice facility upgrades probaby capable of I-A, but they are a long way from actually filling those with paying fans or having an athletic budget that can acutallly compete with WAC teams. The other schools are pretty much at the highest level they can compete at right now. Montana could move up, doubtfull Montana St. would ever make the move, and I DON'T see that rivalry being broken up.

[silkamilkamonico]

*Montana could move up, doubtfull Montana St. would ever make the move, and I DON'T see that rivalry being broken up.


Montana St. I don't think could ever afford to move up. They don't make alot of money on their athletic programs and they don't have the support or backers to make that transition up.

I completely understand what you're saying about not breaking up that rivalry, and I do agree. But if it was in Montana's best interest in moving up in football I think they would.

10 years ago I would have said the same thing about the UND-NDSU rivalry, and NDSU made a decision that was in the best interest of the University.

I know it's a different circumstance with NDSU's move up and Montana just moving up in football, but I wouldn't put that completely out of the queston for Montana if they felt it was in the best interest of their school.

[buffalobill]

Edited by Admin: kinda of a funny line, but I'm serious about not having UND smack on the main boards because the next thing you know you have UND fans responding and then NDSU fans respond to that and the whole thing turns into one big hissy fit and folks who want to read about NDSU football have to wade through a bunch of, um, stuff.

[IowaBison]

Don't you mean North Dakota State?

Edited by Admin: quoted the post above which had the UND smack so I removed the quote but didn't touch the post otherwise.

[ucdtim17]

realisticly I don't think any of those schools except for NDSU actually has much of a chance at competing in the WAC in the near future. *Sac St. is supposedly getting some nice facility upgrades probaby capable of I-A, but they are a long way from actually filling those with paying fans or having an athletic budget that can acutallly compete with WAC teams. *The other schools are pretty much at the highest level they can compete at right now. *Montana could move up, doubtfull Montana St. would ever make the move, and I DON'T see that rivalry being broken up.

How do you figure that? UCD is a much much bigger university than NDSU (as is Sac) and in 2 years will have a bigger athletic budget than every school on that list (if not right now), not to mention all the talent in California that has nowhere to go because every other school dropped fb. New stadium expandable to 30k. And we did beat you pretty good last year with half the number of scholarships. We'll see how things shake out in a few years, but I don't see how NDSU would necessarily be the top candidate. In any case, it will be at least a few years for any of these schools.

[ucdtim17]

UCD is also bigger than any school in the WAC, with only SJSU close

[mikelsch]

First of all, why the hel! would the Big East want East Carolina - they suck at football and basketball, and why would they want 17 schools when 16 is awkward enough.

No chance at the Mountain West - they are not an entry level conference.

WAC - maybe - but there are other attractive candidates to pick from if they ever expand.

I-A is expensive! 22 more FB scholarships would add $250K alone, plus balancing with women's scholarships and new sports, plus added coaches' pay.

That being said - If either the WAC or MWC came calling, then I'm sure NDSU would listen, especially if the Big Sky and Mid Con aren't offering.

[buffalobill]

THINK BIGGER, THINK POSITIVE, EXPAND YOUR VISION!!

[mikelsch]

Think Positive, but think Realistic

[tony]

How do you figure that? UCD is a much much bigger (etc.)

Heck if I know how people think - I was kind of scratching my head at that too. Seems pretty clear that UC Davis will be DI-A before long.

[RodentiaX]

I-A would cost more in scholarships, but that could be made up with getting more money for non-conference road games than would be available if NDSU was a I-AA team.

Of course, NDSU would also have to pay money to bring in I-A opponents. If the non-conference schedule were 4 games, two of them could be road games against I-A opponents who would pay well, one could be a I-A team at home and the fourth could be a I-AA team. Three road games and one home game would net large revenues, but would be a killer.

Also, if NDSU went I-A, the Fargodome would be packed to the roof, and NDSU could ask higher ticket prices.

[DenverBison05]

Since when has bigger corresponded with being DI-A. *Its all about the amount of support the athletic department receives. *Look at SJSU, they can barely make it in DI-A and yet they are the biggest school in the WAC. *Larger isn't always better.

[buffalobill]

;D
I-A would cost more in scholarships, but that could be made up with getting more money for non-conference road games than would be available if NDSU was a I-AA team.

Of course, NDSU would also have to pay money to bring in I-A opponents. If the non-conference schedule were 4 games, two of them could be road games against I-A opponents who would pay well, one could be a I-A team at home and the fourth could be a I-AA team. Three road games and one home game would net large revenues, but would be a killer.

Also, if NDSU went I-A, the Fargodome would be packed to the roof, and NDSU could ask higher ticket prices.
Most D-1A games are home and home or maybe a 2 for 1 if you are a newbie or perceived to be a lesser program. Minnesota would never play in Fargo unless we are D-1A in football. Imagine that Minnesota in the Fargodome. Now tell me D-1A doesn't have appeal ;D ;D

[buffalobill]

Currently there is a thread about adding NDSU on the WAC board. Here is the link

http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/wac/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=13409#13409
Great link by the way!!!!!!!!!

[Gamehunter]

How do you figure that? UCD is a much much bigger university than NDSU (as is Sac) and in 2 years will have a bigger athletic budget than every school on that list (if not right now), not to mention all the talent in California that has nowhere to go because every other school dropped fb. New stadium expandable to 30k. And we did beat you pretty good last year with half the number of scholarships. We'll see how things shake out in a few years, but I don't see how NDSU would necessarily be the top candidate. In any case, it will be at least a few years for any of these schools.


Since when has bigger corresponded with being DI-A. Its all about the amount of support the athletic department receives. Look at SJSU, they can barely make it in DI-A and yet they are the biggest school in the WAC. Larger isn't always better.

Also, check out Notre Dame while your at it.

Large Student Bodies probably do help out and as a general rule the larger universities partisicpate in higher level sporting events.

My point being is that none of those schools, including UCD, have anywhere near the fan/booster support that NDSU does and while I think UCD or Sac make move D1-A in the future, they have alot of catching up to do. And I don't really care who beat who, where, because it's irrelevant in this discussion, but NDSU beat you by alot more than 6 points two years ago...

I also think UCD is probably headed for DI-A. It may be a logical choice for them. They have all the right things to make them successfull at that level, but it is going to take some time. UCD's football stadium is going to be nice, but once again it would need to be exanded in order to play on the WAC, and the current design probably wont be ready for this football season.

NDSU is looking for a conference now, hopefully I-AA, but if it came down to it, the Bison and the Fargodome are already I-A capable.

[ucdtim17]

Not to mention the travel costs for every non-revenue sport going to and from Fargo. UCD is right in the middle of the WAC footprint and has built-in rivalries with UNR, FSU, and SJSU. Not to mention the differences in corporate money between Northern California and North Dakota - it's not even close.

[ucdtim17]

I mentioned the game last year because you said we were at the highest level we could compete at, which doesn't really make sense because we had half as many scholarships as you last year. We will be fully funded in 2 years and ostensibly, better than we are with 37 scholarships. We will also have $13-14 million athletic budget, which will fit right in with the average WAC athletic budget of $13.5 million

[ucdtim17]

NDSU is definitely the class of the GWFC as far as football support goes right now, but hopefully UCD will be joining you with SRO sellouts of 15-18k in the new stadium. It will certainly be nice to have the games start counting again in '07

[DenverBison05]

ucdtime17, none of us are saying that you have a bad program or that you are not going DivI-A, but frankly right now we a desparate to get into any conference so that has us looking at the WAC too. Please do not feel like we are putting down UCD in any way because we are not. All we are saying is that currently we have a better athletic department. Clearly your school is improving yours and that is good.

[sambini]

Thanks for the link Buffalo Bill. And UCD HOPE TO SEE YOU FOLKS OUT IN DAVIS next fall. Is the new stadium going to be ready?

[MplsBison]

Montana St. I don't think could ever afford to move up. They don't make alot of money on their athletic programs and they don't have the support or backers to make that transition up.

I completely understand what you're saying about not breaking up that rivalry, and I do agree. But if it was in Montana's best interest in moving up in football I think they would.

10 years ago I would have said the same thing about the UND-NDSU rivalry, and NDSU made a decision that was in the best interest of the University.

I know it's a different circumstance with NDSU's move up and Montana just moving up in football, but I wouldn't put that completely out of the queston for Montana if they felt it was in the best interest of their school.


But it's not like Montana and Montana State couldn't still play each other every season. Esp. in basketball where they'd still be in the same division.

[MplsBison]

ucdtim, Davis is ready for the WAC.

One thing that especially is in your favor over some other schools is your high academics. I am correct in saying that, right?

I also think Sac St. will be ready once it gets the facilities and some good coaches in there.


Thats' why I think those two are the most likely candidates for expansion.


But I also think Montana, NDSU, and SDSU might be up there.

[MplsBison]

First of all, why the hel! would the Big East want East Carolina - they suck at football and basketball, and why would they want 17 schools when 16 is awkward enough.

It's a complicated scenario.

The Big East has 16 teams but only 8 football teams. That means they only have 7 conference games which means that teams now have to find 5 NC games. This is no easy task. Ask West Virginia.

There is talk that the Big East could add a football only member. The only logical choice for this member would be from CUSA. Some schools being tossed around are UCF (to go with USF), Memphis, UAB, ECU, and Marshall.

For whatever reason, ECU is the front runner and it's speculated that they could be added as early as spring/summer 2006. Not sure if that means they'd drop a bunch of games for a Big East schedule for the 06 season or if they'd wait until the 07 season.

Either way (and even if it isn't ECU) CUSA is not going to let a team be in the conference for all sports but football.


And the most logical replacement is LA Tech, who wants to be in CUSA which is much more natural for them and lowers travel costs significantly.

And then the WAC is down to eight, etc.

[MplsBison]

I-A is expensive! 22 more FB scholarships would add $250K alone, plus balancing with women's scholarships and new sports, plus added coaches' pay.

There would be significantly higher travel costs as well.

I think someone said the average budget for a WAC team is 13.5 million dollars. I don't know what we are now, but I image we'd need to up that quite a bit.


It's still something to think about.

[Gamehunter]

ucdtime17, none of us are saying that you have a bad program or that you are not going DivI-A, but frankly right now we a desparate to get into any conference so that has us looking at the WAC too. Please do not feel like we are putting down UCD in any way because we are not. All we are saying is that currently we have a better athletic department. Clearly your school is improving yours and that is good.

thats what I was trying to say. The travel costs to and from Fargo could potentially be an issue with the WAC, but not significantly more than any other conference we are currently looking at. I would much rather see NDSU get into a I-AA conference right now as opposed to I-A. There may come a time when I-A makes sense but I think I-AA is a better fit now.

On UCD's new stadium, I was under the impression that the capacity upon completion would be under 10k? I realize it is expandable to 30k....



I mentioned the game last year because you said we were at the highest level we could compete at, which doesn't really make sense because we had half as many scholarships as you last year. We will be fully funded in 2 years and ostensibly, better than we are with 37 scholarships. We will also have $13-14 million athletic budget, which will fit right in with the average WAC athletic budget of $13.5 million

the scholarship difference has not been a factor up the this point. The reason being, is almost all of those additional scholarships have been sitting on the bench in redshirt freshmen. Most of those guys are just getting to the point were they can contribute this fall or next.

[ucdtim17]

ucdtime17, none of us are saying that you have a bad program or that you are not going DivI-A, but frankly right now we a desparate to get into any conference so that has us looking at the WAC too. *Please do not feel like we are putting down UCD in any way because we are not. *All we are saying is that currently we have a better athletic department. *Clearly your school is improving yours and that is good.

I didn't take it as a knock at Davis, I just wanted to point out a few things UCD has going for it as far as I-A goes. I was with you up until "currently we have a better athletic department." Both obviously have great athletic departments for the level we're at, but we did win 6 D2 Sears Cups not that long ago, when we were both in D2.

[ucdtim17]

Thanks for the link Buffalo *Bill. And UCD HOPE TO SEE YOU FOLKS OUT IN DAVIS next fall. Is the new stadium going to be ready?


well you can check progress for yourself
http://www.ae.ucdavis.edu/webcams/StadiumCam.htm

It looks pretty much the same as it did back in August. It's pretty embarassing. The athletic dept hasn't committed to anything, but as of now I'd be shocked if we had the home opener there and not all that surprised if we played the whole season at Toomey.

[ucdtim17]

ucdtim, Davis is ready for the WAC.

One thing that especially is in your favor over some other schools is your high academics. I am correct in saying that, right?


yes you are correct in saying that

[ucdtim17]

On UCD's new stadium, I was under the impression that the capacity upon completion would be under 10k? *I realize it is expandable to 30k....



Nothing is in stone yet, but there will probably be 10-13k seats plus 3-5k grass endzone seating. So in theory capacity will be somewhere between 13k and 18k. Hopefully closer to 18

[ucdtim17]

But the way they're going, I'm sure the athletic department will find some way to bungle it and we'll have a capacity of 10k for $30 million. This at the same time Stanford is building a state of the art 55k seat stadium for $90 million and UCF is building a 45k seat stadium for $50 million.

[Jacks02]

I think its great alot of you have "vision" and are shooting for the top with some aggressive goals. But I find it kind of amusing how after two seasons in DIAA, where the SU's are not even eligilble yet for playoffs and are still in transition, people are already putting down the division and saying the Bison are too good to play in it.

I'm not trying to talk smack in any way, so don't be offended by my comments. Just thought it was kind of funny how our schools are only halfway through the transition towards playoff eligible in DIAA and people are already thinking the Bison could win the WAC.

[NDSUstudent]

I kind of like the idea of going to WAC even though NDSU will probably never win a title again. But we will be in a two bid basketball league, hoops in the WAC is 100 times better then hoops in the either the Big Sky or the Mid-Con. If we are in the WAC I think Miles could do some great things with our hoops program and basketball could become huge at NDSU. Football could still competitive on a national level and I guess I would have to settle for a bowl bid to Vegas or where ever else. If NDSU ever turned into a Boise State I would be estatic and I think we could do it. Really I just want NDSU in a league before 08 but getting into the WAC would be at the top of my list followed closely by the MVC/Gateway. Maybe the WAC would expand to 12 and take in NDSU plus Montana and UC Davis, that would make for a great league.

[NDSUstudent]

I think its great alot of you have "vision" and are shooting for the top with some aggressive goals. *But I find it kind of amusing how after two seasons in DIAA, where the SU's are not even eligilble yet for playoffs and are still in transition, people are already putting down the division and saying the Bison are too good to play in it.

I'm not trying to talk smack in any way, so don't be offended by my comments. *Just thought it was kind of funny how our schools are only halfway through the transition towards playoff eligible in DIAA and people are already thinking the Bison could win the WAC.

Win the WAC? I haven't heard anyone here say that and I doubt you will. NDSU still has a ways to go before being able to win the WAC. That said just look at Troy State they shot right thru IAA into IA and if the WAC was serious in adding NDSU there is no reason for NDSU to not jump at the offer. We need a conference period and the WAC would be one of our top options. The question is if the WAC would ever add NDSU and I have no idea if they would.

[Leonardite]

Yeah, I hear you on the difference, and yes, it is a big one. *It still doesn't affect my feeling that neither would be a big stretch. *Stretch, yes, but not insurmountable. *Also, while regularly playing San Diego State, BYU and Colo St. would be very fun, I wouldn't shake a stick at Boise St., Fresno St. and Hawaii.

Either conference would be fun. *How many more games would YOU attend. *

I'm a little biased on this, though, since more away games would be closer to me with this move. *A Big Sky affiliation still gets me one game every two years about a mile from my house...if PSU were to stay in the conference...

Anyway, just a thought.


My game attendance wouldn't go up, considering I only miss for extenuating circumstances anyway, but obviously this would be a more appealing schedule of games.......in either conference. But my main issue is that besides the unforeseen successes of Fresno and Boise, the Mountain West is still a much stronger and much more exclusive conference than the WAC. I would certainly assume they would like to absorb the aforementioned WAC school long before a D1 provisional.

[Jacks02]

Win the WAC? I haven't heard anyone here say that and I doubt you will. NDSU still has a ways to go before being able to win the WAC. That said just look at Troy State they shot right thru IAA into IA and if the WAC was serious in adding NDSU there is no reason for NDSU to not jump at the offer. We need a conference period and the WAC would be one of our top options. The question is if the WAC would ever add NDSU and I have no idea if they would.


I guess I should have reread the entire post again before I commented on it. I guess this was the one I remembered, although the rest seemed to straddle the fence.


Three things:

1.) The WAC and/or MWC aren't that big of a stretch. We could compete now, be a top of conference team regularly in the near future.

I think its great to search out all options, and if there's a chance of this working, I'd say go for it. As much as I like playing in the Great West against some great football schools in UCD and Cal-Poly, it really blows being in limbo as far as basketball is concerned. I keep hoping the Mid-Con, Big Sky, or MVC gives us a call, but until we are playoff eligible, I think we'll be left in the cold. I guess in the meantime all we can do is keep building our programs and knocking them off as non-conference opponents!

[kchats]

I think its great alot of you have "vision" and are shooting for the top with some aggressive goals. *But I find it kind of amusing how after two seasons in DIAA, where the SU's are not even eligilble yet for playoffs and are still in transition, people are already putting down the division and saying the Bison are too good to play in it.

I'm not trying to talk smack in any way, so don't be offended by my comments. *Just thought it was kind of funny how our schools are only halfway through the transition towards playoff eligible in DIAA and people are already thinking the Bison could win the WAC.

Jacks02 what is the word from SDSU on the conference search? Are alumni and administration willing to sit idlely by and wait patiently for the Big Sky Conference or Mid-Con to consider expansion again? If the Big Sky teases SDSU and NDSU with another bogus send in your information and we'll consider you again and then snubs the SU's again do you patiently wait for them to do it again? The Mid-Con hasn't even mentioned expansion so the wait there could be long. The rumblings are the WAC and Mountain West are looking to expand. That is the only reason we are even discussing it we need a conference and if it happens to be a I-A conference that invites NDSU to join I think they accept it. Our athletic budget isn't even at the level of the bottom dwelling schools in I-A so lots of money would need to be raised. UC-Davis is already in a conference for all of their sports although the Great West could use more teams so why would they move to the WAC?

[Jacks02]

Jacks02 what is the word from SDSU on the conference search? *Are alumni and administration willing to sit idlely by and wait patiently for the Big Sky Conference or Mid-Con to consider expansion again? *If the Big Sky teases SDSU and NDSU with another bogus send in your information and we'll consider you again and then snubs the SU's again do you patiently wait for them to do it again? *The Mid-Con hasn't even mentioned expansion so the wait there could be long. *The rumblings are the WAC and Mountain West are looking to expand. *That is the only reason we are even discussing it we need a conference and if it happens to be a I-A conference that invites NDSU to join I think they accept it. *Our athletic budget isn't even at the level of the bottom dwelling schools in I-A so lots of money would need to be raised. *UC-Davis is already in a conference for all of their sports although the Great West could use more teams so why would they move to the WAC?

I'm pretty active on keeping up on SDSU athletics' news and there really hasn't been any as far as a conference goes. I really think as long we are in the transition phase and ineligible for postseason play, a conference is going to be tough to find.

I think if NDSU can handle it financially and competetively and the opportunity arises to make it into the WAC or MW, you gotta go for it. I've always hoped we could find a new home together, I'm really enjoying the rivalry we have with the Bison, but you gotta look out for you own best interests. I guess my original post was a little pessimistic of the talk for IA, but if the President is discussing it, maybe its not so far-fetched an idea.

[NanoBison]

If we decided to move football up to DI-A. Would that affect our transitional period? Would it start over? Or do we just say we are going for that higher level instead and just finish out the transition?

Anybody have any idea what the athletic budgets are for the DI-A "bottom feeders"?

How much more is it than ours currently is? Are there any other requirements other than the mandatory 15,000 attendance for football (or is it higher than I'm thinking?)

[WYOBISONMAN]

The important thing is that if DI-A is the route Chapman and Taylor want to take......I am with them!

[MplsBison]

But the way they're going, I'm sure the athletic department will find some way to bungle it and we'll have a capacity of 10k for $30 million. This at the same time Stanford is building a state of the art 55k seat stadium for $90 million and UCF is building a 45k seat stadium for $50 million.

To be fair, the reason the Florida stadium is so cheap is that labor is dirt cheap there.

I imagine that stadium would go for 100 million in a state like California.

Minnesota is building a 50k seat stadium for 200+ million. I suppose there might be a difference in amenities.


Also, I think Stanford is just upgrading the stadium they had rather than building new. But I'm not sure.

[MplsBison]

Anybody have any idea what the athletic budgets are for the DI-A "bottom feeders"?


Once the facilities at the Fargodome are completed and the BSA is redone, NDSU will have DI-A facilities.

The main upgrades that would need to come are scholarships and coaches pay.

If you assume the worst case scenario (IE, all players are out of state tuition) then you're talking about 85 x 20 thousand dollars. That's 1.7 million dollars a year.

Then coaches pay will go up as I-A allows more coaches plus each coach would likely need more money to stay competitive with other schools.

If you say 200k for a head coach, 100k for the two coordinators, and seven position coaches at 50k you're talking about 750 thousand dollars a year.

So that's 2.45 million dollars a year.

If you assume 5% return, you'd need a 49 million dollar endowment.

[ucdtim17]

How much more is it than ours currently is? Are there any other requirements other than the mandatory 15,000 attendance for football (or is it higher than I'm thinking?)

The NCAA has yet to enforce the 15k minimum and doesn't have any plans to do so I don't think.

[ucdtim17]

To be fair, the reason the Florida stadium is so cheap is that labor is dirt cheap there.

I imagine that stadium would go for 100 million in a state like California.

Minnesota is building a 50k seat stadium for 200+ million. I suppose there might be a difference in amenities.


Also, I think Stanford is just upgrading the stadium they had rather than building new. But I'm not sure.

Yeah everything is cheaper in Florida but the UCD project is as simple as it gets (we own the land; it was just a dirt lot; it's a simple one level bowl with the bowl dug out very quickly last summer, etc) and is still on the upper level of cost for what we're getting. Didn't Princeton build a 30k stadium a few years ago for $30 million? And the cost would be OK if they were moving at a quick pace, but it's been glacial. We should just hire Stanford to finish it when they're done with theirs (which is a fully new stadium, a much more complicated project on many levels and yet they're going to finish in 9 months). We had something like a 5 month head start on a much smaller project and theirs is still going to be finished well before ours. It's embarrassing.

[Gamehunter]

just speculation....I wonder what an outdoor stadium, say 30,000 seat with comparable or better ameneties to the FFD would run? I would think being build in Fargo would be alot cheaper than most of the U.S. Plus we do have land.

[sambini]

Where would you build it?

[Gamehunter]

Well, what would be wrong with the land just West of the HR parking lot and the LLC? It seems the new Alien Tech building and the Fargodome are fairly tall, I don't see why an outdoor football stadium would cause problems with the airport.

[sambini]

Is that land ear marked for any other future endeavors? More research park areas etc.............

[MplsBison]

Well, what would be wrong with the land just West of the HR parking lot and the LLC? It seems the new Alien Tech building and the Fargodome are fairly tall, I don't see why an outdoor football stadium would cause problems with the airport.




Maybe it would be possible, but you'd have a much harder time convincing the FAA to allow a building that tall right under the flight plan.

You'd have to cancel all flights during game day.

And think if a plane crashed into it?


Plus I think those are ag research fields.



What about building a stadium around the track?

[broke_back_mnt]

It will be built at the interchange of I29 and County road 20, in the south east quadrant.

[Gamehunter]

Maybe it would be possible, but you'd have a much harder time convincing the FAA to allow a building that tall right under the flight plan.

You'd have to cancel all flights during game day.

And think if a plane crashed into it?


Plus I think those are ag research fields.



What about building a stadium around the track?


can't imagine it would be anymore in the flight path than the LLC....

[mikelsch]

Waste of time to talk about a new FB stadium. We need to consistently fill the really nice one that we already have.

It is not even close to being a priority...lots of other upgrades to facilities before that...like the BSA, a new basketball arena; also need to increase coaches' salaries and scholarship dollars. For as much as new stuff costs these days, forget about a replacement for the FargoDome.

[RodentiaX]

There's nothing wrong with idle speculation, where would sports be without it? The Fargodome's capacity isn't a present issue, but it will be an issue in the future. Better to discuss an issue before it becomes a pressing matter than to wait too long. It's true, there are present issues that are on the front burner, but those aren't being ignored.

[MplsBison]

can't imagine it would be anymore in the flight path than the LLC....


The LLC is east of the flight plan for landing from the south.

If you built the stadium west of there, it would be directly under it.

[broke_back_mnt]

I couldnt get this to work right, but when the map comes up if you zoom to 3rd from the top, click north once then west once you will have a perfect view of the stadium sites being discussed:

Stadium Sites (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory =&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitu de=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=&c ity=fargo&state=nd&zipcode=)

[MplsBison]

http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/4539/screen0xs.png

[Paulie]

If NDSU is seriously considering a IA move then the Sun Belt is the realistic option.

Also, I've never seen any indication from the WAC that they are "looking to expand." It seems like just wishfull thinking from schools that aspire to that level.

The MWC is trying to position itself for a BCS slot and would have no interest in any school that wouldn't help that goal, so unless you are Boise State or Fresno State the MWC doesn't even know you exist.

[NDSUstudent]

If NDSU is seriously considering a IA move then the Sun Belt is the realistic option. *

Also, I've never seen any indication from the WAC that they are "looking to expand." *It seems like just wishfull thinking from schools that aspire to that level. *

The MWC is trying to position itself for a BCS slot and would have no interest in any school that wouldn't help that goal, so unless you are Boise State or Fresno State the MWC doesn't even know you exist. *

I have seen some articles saying the WAC would like to add another team and if the MWC adds 2(Boise and Fresno) and the CUSA adds 1(La Tech) the WAC may need 4 teams. The WAC is by far and away our best bet at getting into a IA conference, Sun Belt isn't even an option. You are right about the MWC though, NDSU has no chance at that happening.

[MplsBison]

I'll say this, I won't be suprised if the the WAC takes a hard look at NDSU in 2008.

That is of course if the Big Sky doesn't snatch us up first.

[kchats]

NDSU just convinced the FargoDome to allow them to build football offices and locker rooms in it. From all accounts the offices are first class and the locker rooms will be as well. It will be a long time before they move out of the dome.

[mikelsch]

FYI

IA Bowl Tie-Ins
Sun Belt = 1
WAC = 3 (starting in 2006)
MWC = 4 (starting in 2006)

MWC > WAC > Sun Belt if the IA option happens for NDSU.

[broke_back_mnt]

Thanks for getting that map up MplsBison. *When looking at it I realized I didnt mean County Rd 20 and I-29. *I meant 19th Ave and I-29. *

[USA_Hockey]

I just don't see how 1-A is a good option for NDSU. They just don't have the facilities or support.

[Gamehunter]

NDSU just convinced the FargoDome to allow them to build football offices and locker rooms in it. From all accounts the offices are first class and the locker rooms will be as well. It will be a long time before they move out of the dome.

I saw the deal they put on wday news a while back. Now, just today I got a chance to see the office part of the NDSU section and I am very impressed. It is definately worth a trip to see. They will be getting some big time I-AA blue chippers with that stuff. I can't imagine to many I-AA teams having anything that could come close to what NDSU has going on at the dome.

[Paulie]

NDSU just convinced the FargoDome to allow them to build football offices and locker rooms in it. *From all accounts the offices are first class and the locker rooms will be as well. *It will be a long time before they move out of the dome.

I saw the deal they put on wday news a while back. *Now, just today I got a chance to see the office part of the NDSU section and I am very impressed. *It is definately worth a trip to see. *They will be getting some big time I-AA blue chippers with that stuff. *I can't imagine to many I-AA teams having anything that could come close to what NDSU has going on at the dome.

How does it compare to Fresno State's facilities?

[Gamehunter]

I have never been to Fresno State ;D

But if it's better than what Bohl had at Nebraska, I would think it is at least on par with any WAC school ???

[Paulie]

I have never been to Fresno State *;D

But if it's better than what Bohl had at Nebraska, I would think it is at least on par with any WAC school ???

He said it was better than what he had at Nebraska? If so, then yes, it will be leaps and bounds ahead of the WAC, Nebraska is first class in all it's football related facilities obviously.

[SUCB#27]

They really are amazing everyone who has a chance should check them out. They will be a huge recruiting tool for us in the future. State of the art everything. You can write on the wall in some areas for crying out loud. Amazing.

[USA_Hockey]

Those football offices might be nice, but if you want a stadium that fits the WAC you need a stadium that seats at least 25,000 people.

[IowaBison]

Those football offices might be nice, but if you want a stadium that fits the WAC you need a stadium that seats at least 25,000 people.

but only 12,000 fans ;)

[mikelsch]

Those football offices might be nice, but if you want a stadium that fits the WAC you need a stadium that seats at least 25,000 people.

What is the basis for your statement?

[broke_back_mnt]

With 25,000 seats you would have a typical stadium for the WAC. *At 18,000 we would have the smallest WAC stadium and would have to raise ticket prices to bring our grosses in line with the league or we wouldnt be able to afford it. Of course, as mentioned, 25,000 seats with 14,000 fans isnt going to do it either.

[mikelsch]

2005 WAC Average Attendance
http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/attendance/2005/2005_football_attendance.pdf

1. Fresno State 39,307
2. Hawaii 32,735
3. Boise State 30,112
4. Louisiana Tech 16,416
5. Idaho 15,175
6. Nevada 15,076
7. New Mexico State 12,557
8. San Jose State 12,506
9. Utah State 10,896

NDSU would have been 7th in 2005, and could always make a run at #4 while in the Fargodome. *Even with a hypothetic new stadium, NDSU wouldn't crack the top 3.

[sambini]

BUFFALO BILL TELL THEM ABOUT THE WAC ATTACK.++++++++++++++++

[Gamehunter]

2005 WAC Average Attendance
http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/attendance/2005/2005_football_attendance.pdf

1. Fresno State 39,307
2. Hawaii 32,735
3. Boise State 30,112
4. Louisiana Tech 16,416
5. Idaho 15,175
6. Nevada 15,076
7. New Mexico State 12,557
8. San Jose State 12,506
9. Utah State 10,896

NDSU would have been 7th in 2005, and could always make a run at #4 while in the Fargodome. Even with a hypothetic new stadium, NDSU wouldn't crack the top 3.


hmm, I was under the impression our attendance was alot lower than the WAC schools but it looks like we would fit right in with the exception of the big 3. If NDSU joined the WAC next year I would see no reason why we couldn't sell out at least several games with teams like Fresno State, Nevada, etc. OK....I'm on board, WAC ATTACK!! ;D

I really think we need to schedule a WAC school in the next couple years. A Boise St. or Fresno would be a nice garanttee game. Weber St. played Fresno last fall and actually lost to NDSU by a larger margin which we all know could have been much worse if the starters would have been kept in. Fresno finished 8-5 and took both USC and Oregon down to the wire.

[USA_Hockey]

Well I was just on University of Idaho's website, and if they can play IA football in that old dome, they can sure as hell do it in the Fargo Dome.

[IowaBison]

2005 WAC Average Attendance
http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/attendance/2005/2005_football_attendance.pdf

1. Fresno State 39,307
2. Hawaii 32,735
3. Boise State 30,112
4. Louisiana Tech 16,416
5. Idaho 15,175
6. Nevada 15,076
7. New Mexico State 12,557
8. San Jose State 12,506
9. Utah State 10,896

NDSU would have been 7th in 2005, and could always make a run at #4 while in the Fargodome. Even with a hypothetic new stadium, NDSU wouldn't crack the top 3.

And if Fresno State and Boise State moved to the MWC, NDSU would be number two.

That being said, I think a move to the WAC makes sense only if there is no alternative.

Also, I think the biggest benefit of being in the WAC lies in its basketball operations, not football.

[DenverBison05]

I disagree, playing fresno, boise, and Hawaii every year in football would be a huge plus for NDSU. Although I do like the Big Sky better, I would still be very happy being in the WAC - much happier than being in the mid-con.

[buffalobill]

WAC ATTACK IS GAINING THE BIG MO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[MplsBison]

Well I was just on University of Idaho's website, and if they can play IA football in that old dome, they can sure as hell do it in the Fargo Dome.

Not positive but I believe they are allowed to count a road game vs. Washington State as part of their attendance. No doubt the 30+ thousand there brings up their average.

[DenverBison05]

Well I was just on University of Idaho's website, and if they can play IA football in that old dome, they can sure as hell do it in the Fargo Dome. *

Not positive but I believe they are allowed to count a road game vs. Washington State as part of their attendance. No doubt the 30+ thousand there brings up their average.


Couldn't we do the same with Minnesota?

[MplsBison]

Well, it's only 10 miles from Pullman to Moscow.

[broke_back_mnt]

Thanks for the info Greenie. Obviously the Fabulous Fargo Dome can take us to the WAC. When they laid out the attendance did they talk about athletic budgets?

[DenverBison05]

Well, it's only 10 miles from Pullman to Moscow.

Ah, yeah, I could see why'd they do that then.

[USA_Hockey]

I don't know what the average basketball attendance is in the WAC, but that is the other revenue drawing sport for NDSU. I would think NDSU would need to upgrade the BSA or build a new facility in order to be the WAC, it's not just about football.

[Mr._Bill]

National exposure in the WAC or MWC would dwarf anything that could be achieved in 1-AA. The only thing close in 1-AA would be winning a money game against a 1A, or the NC game itself.

If a Bison team in the WAC could be in the upper half of the conference, we would get huge exposure and the chance to complete for a Bowl. Not a bad option in my mind. Don't sell this option short. Cost might be a limiting factor, but this would be an awsome option IMO, now or later.

[tony]

Hehehe, so were all decided? NDSU goes to the WAC. Here's my todo checklist for NDSU:

1. Wait one year to get an invitation to the WAC.
2. Repeat step 2 100 times or until the WAC dissolves.
3. Form a new WAC with NDSU as a founding member.

That's not to say I wouldn't be pleased to see it happen.

[Gamehunter]

I don't know what the average basketball attendance is in the WAC, but that is the other revenue drawing sport for NDSU. I would think NDSU would need to upgrade the BSA or build a new facility in order to be the WAC, it's not just about football.

already happening.

but your right, the basketball part is every bit as important as the football. Just at NDSU, basketball has been clouded in the footsteps of football in years past because it's hard to get people to come out for DII basketball. Things are definately changing.

[D_One_here_we_come]

Sounds good to me! Let's do the WAC, now someone make the phone call!