BIG XII Auto Qualifiers

[Gladiator Dad]

The NCAA released the Automatic Bids for each conference today.

125 - 6, 133 - 4, 141 -3, 149 - 3, 157 - 3, 165 -3, 174 - 4, 184 - 3, 197 - 4, 285 - 3

http://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2016-02-25/di-wrestling-qualifier-allocations-coaches-rankings-and-rpi

Bison in the RPI
Wt Rnk
125 13 Joshua Rodriguez North Dakota St. Big 12
149 32 Clayton Ream North Dakota St. Big 12
184 11 Hayden Zillmer North Dakota St. Big 12

Link to full RPI http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/02/25/wrtop33rpi_feb21.pdf

Bison in Final Coaches Pole
125 16 Joshua Rodriguez North Dakota St. Big 12
184 4 Hayden Zillmer North Dakota St. Big 12

http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/02/25/wrtop33coachrank_feb21.pdf

I tried inserting the full table but it would not insert properly.

[Sweepsingle]

Was moving to the BigXII the right move?

Last year the conference gets 21 automatic qualifiers. This year the new conference gets 36. A net of +15. The bison qualified 6 last year. This year???

We go from being the dominate team in the conference and creating opportunities to get to the big dance for our guys to a middle of the pack team.

The BigXII is no fool....they figured out how to get the automatic qualifier spots from the old WWC conference...and now most of the original members of the Big XII will get close to their entire teams in to the NCAA tournament while the weaker WWC guys get to stay at home!

I will bet you right now that 21 guys from the old conference do not get in this year!

[Gladiator Dad]

Sweep you bring up a good point. If my estimates are correct based off of the RPI & Coaches Pole I think the old WWC would've had the following.

125 = 3-4
133 = 2
141 = 2
149 = 2
157 = 2-3
165 = 1
174 = 1
184 = 1
197 = 2
285 = 1-2

We would've been just head of the SoCon as far as Auto-Bids go. I guess we now have to wait for the brackets to come out so we can asses our chances.

[bisonaudit]

So it wouldn't have been 21 bids again this year it would have been more like 18.

Also, Ohio Valley football is terrible. Who wants to be in 1 bid league and ill prepared for the post season.

[BisoninNWMN]

Was moving to the BigXII the right move?

Last year the conference gets 21 automatic qualifiers. This year the new conference gets 36. A net of +15. The bison qualified 6 last year. This year???

We go from being the dominate team in the conference and creating opportunities to get to the big dance for our guys to a middle of the pack team.

The BigXII is no fool....they figured out how to get the automatic qualifier spots from the old WWC conference...and now most of the original members of the Big XII will get close to their entire teams in to the NCAA tournament while the weaker WWC guys get to stay at home!

I will bet you right now that 21 guys from the old conference do not get in this year!


Do the Bison, outside of 2 very good wrestlers, deserve more than 2 entries?

[RadioBison]

Also, Ohio Valley football is terrible. Who wants to be in 1 bid league and ill prepared for the post season.

This might change in the future, but the new Big XII competition hasn't done anything to prepare us for this postseason. By my estimation, each guy will face 1.333 opponents from last year's Big XII, on average.

[Sweepsingle]

Granted the automatic qualifying numbers would have been different this year. The reality is the big 12 conference took advantage of the fact that all the schools want to be associated with the power conference. If the former WWC schools are going to put the money into wrestling and have a full big 12 schedule then it will make sense in the future.

Each of the big power schools in the big 12 conference are going to keep scheduling the other power schools in the Big Ten and other conferences. The former WWC schools are not going to see a big influx of a full big 12 schedule where they wrestle the Oklahoma States, Oklahoma, Iowa States every year.

Right now this new conference alignment feels like NDSU and others were taken advantage of. It really does help the former big 12 schools have automatic qualifiers in each weight. If the goal is for the big 12 conference to realign and allow the rest of the teams to bring in their football and basketball teams and other sports etc. then it will make sense in the future. If this is only a wrestling agreement and it stays this way... We will have wait to see what it looks like in the future and determine whether it was a good move or not.

[tjbison]

Granted the automatic qualifying numbers would have been different this year. The reality is the big 12 conference took advantage of the fact that all the schools want to be associated with the power conference. If the former WWC schools are going to put the money into wrestling and have a full big 12 schedule then it will make sense in the future.

Each of the big power schools in the big 12 conference are going to keep scheduling the other power schools in the Big Ten and other conferences. The former WWC schools are not going to see a big influx of a full big 12 schedule where they wrestle the Oklahoma States, Oklahoma, Iowa States every year.

Right now this new conference alignment feels like NDSU and others were taken advantage of. It really does help the former big 12 schools have automatic qualifiers in each weight. If the goal is for the big 12 conference to realign and allow the rest of the teams to bring in their football and basketball teams and other sports etc. then it will make sense in the future. If this is only a wrestling agreement and it stays this way... We will have wait to see what it looks like in the future and determine whether it was a good move or not.

This starts and ends at wrestling, there would have to be a massive situation to come about for NDSU to make a B12 move....and by massive I mean everyone else leave

[Big Bird]

Finally got a chance to sit down and look at who earned the spots and a few stuck out to me. Weight by weight, some Bison have a decent shot to steal an AQ spot. All depends on how the brackets actually go, but I have an idea on a few.
125- Went as expected and it's a deep weight. Rodriguez will likely get the 5 seed, behind Templeman, Moisey, Klimara, and Millhoff, in that order. The loss to Templeman likely kept Josh from a shot at the 3 seed. That being said, the way he is wrestling, he is the best guy in this bracket IMO. Moisey hasn't been able to translate his great NCAA tourney last year into a great season this year and isn't a contender for the B12 title IMO. I expect Josh to beat Templeman handily, and then run into the 2nd best guy in the bracket, Ryan Millhoff. I think Josh wins a very tough bracket over All American Eddie Klimara. I also expect Chasen Tolbert from UVU to get the 6 seed and beat Moisey off the bat.
133- I'm disappointed that Jade Rauser didn't get an AQ spot. He's a really good wrestler and I want him in the NCAA tourney. Nico just needs to focus on improving and if he wins a match, great. I think Rauser beats Gary Wayne Harding out for an AQ spot.
141- Turned out very well for Bengston, even though he didn't earn the conference an AQ spot. Losing to Seth Gross in the last dual ensured Gross got another AQ spot for the conference. It should come down to a matchup between Bengston and Gross for a spot in the NCAA tourney, and that is as good as it can get with his lack of quality wins this year.
149- Again, the SDSU dual was a bit of a blessing in disguise. Kocer snagged an AQ spot and some bad late season loses just kept Timmy Box from getting one. Clay will be in the 5-6 spot most likely and has a very good shot at qualifying, but making the semis will be key. Collica is a top 5 wrestler when he is on his game, but he's been inconsistent this year. Jeffries and Kocer are beatable and Clay has a really good shot at taking one of their AQ spots away.
157- Each of the top 3 is very good, and I don't see Gliva having a good chance. His best hope is as a 4-5 seed and Pack at #1 and not 100%. If Pack isn't the #1 seed, I don't think he makes the finals.
165- I'm not a fan of Weatherman or Glass, but Nehring would need a great day of cradles to get through. I think Zilverberg makes it through by taking 3rd.
174- Really glad David Kocer grabbed a spot. I like watching him and think he can do some damage at NCAAs.
184- The Jack Pine Savage is on a collision course with Nolan Boyd. Very important for Hayden to win this tournament and keep a high seed at NCAAs. I really hope he does and avoids a rd of 16 matchup vs a Dechow, Renda, or Brooks.
197- 7 guys in the top 33 of the coaches panel rankings, with only 4 spots. Really hoping Rotert doesn't take top 3, but I could see him, Smith, Noon, or Johnson winning it.
HWT- Should be a fun one with only 3 spots available. I would seed Tynan 5th, but you can make the case for him to be any of 4-6 along with Dennison and Vizcarondo. I think he really needs to be on the 4-5 line and win the first round match (most likely vs Vizcarondo) and then hope Larson beats Harms in the semis on the other side of the bracket. Harms would then have to get by Vizcarondo just to get to third and then Ben would have the winner to make NCAAs, which is about as good of a chance as you can get.

Overall, 125 and 184 are locks, and 141, 149, and HWT have very legitimate chances to get into the big dance as well. 157 and 165 would have to have an absolutely perfect tourney and probably get really lucky to sneak in.

[larson311]

Sounds like Moisey will just be weighing in to make ensure he gets a wild card, but won't be wrestling.

[Big Bird]

Sounds like Moisey will just be weighing in to make ensure he gets a wild card, but won't be wrestling.

If that is the case, he better be seeded last. It would be an unfair advantage to give the 6 seed a bye to the semis and guarantee him a top 6 finish. Also, Iowa State's Kyle Larson is the one most likely to benefit from this, with Trey Andrews still academically ineligible.

[jackrabbit1979]

If that is the case, he better be seeded last. It would be an unfair advantage to give the 6 seed a bye to the semis and guarantee him a top 6 finish. Also, Iowa State's Kyle Larson is the one most likely to benefit from this, with Trey Andrews still academically ineligible.

Doesn't he mean one of the wildcards awarded after the tournament by the NCAA? The six spots at 125 at the Big 12's would still go to six of the wrestlers at the tourney and Moisey would hope for one of the NCAA awarded wildcard spots. Which I'm sure he would get as a coach and RPI ranked wrestlers who was a runner up last year.

Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

[Big Bird]

Doesn't he mean one of the wildcards awarded after the tournament by the NCAA? The six spots at 125 at the Big 12's would still go to six of the wrestlers at the tourney and Moisey would hope for one of the NCAA awarded wildcard spots. Which I'm sure he would get as a coach and RPI ranked wrestlers who was a runner up last year.

Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

What I meant to say was that Moisey should be seeded 10th or whatever the last seed is at 125 is. If he is seeded 3rd, which is likely if they go by merit, then Chasen Tolbert (the likely 6 seed) would get a bye to the semi finals, and thus be guaranteed an AQ spot. If they seed Moisey 10th in the tourney because they know he is going to default out, then everyone will still have to earn their way into the semis and an AQ spot.

[jackrabbit1979]

What I meant to say was that Moisey should be seeded 10th or whatever the last seed is at 125 is. If he is seeded 3rd, which is likely if they go by merit, then Chasen Tolbert (the likely 6 seed) would get a bye to the semi finals, and thus be guaranteed an AQ spot. If they seed Moisey 10th in the tourney because they know he is going to default out, then everyone will still have to earn their way into the semis and an AQ spot.

aha. Got it. Makes sense.

[BisoninNWMN]

Good luck to the wrestlers this weekend.

I think the Bison will get 2 auto qualifiers: 125 and 184

With some luck maybe 1 or 2 more.

[larson311]

If that is the case, he better be seeded last. It would be an unfair advantage to give the 6 seed a bye to the semis and guarantee him a top 6 finish. Also, Iowa State's Kyle Larson is the one most likely to benefit from this, with Trey Andrews still academically ineligible.

I see what you are saying, but the seeding committee can't account for that. Sam Stoll likely won't wrestle for Iowa this weekend either and he's the 3 seed in the Big Ten. As long as he weighs in he gets seeded and just med forfeits out.

[RadioBison]

What I meant to say was that Moisey should be seeded 10th or whatever the last seed is at 125 is. If he is seeded 3rd, which is likely if they go by merit, then Chasen Tolbert (the likely 6 seed) would get a bye to the semi finals, and thus be guaranteed an AQ spot. If they seed Moisey 10th in the tourney because they know he is going to default out, then everyone will still have to earn their way into the semis and an AQ spot.

We just need a "true sixth" match, in case that happens.

[Sweepsingle]

All guys entered will be seeded according to regular season results. Moisey will get his seed and if he forfeits out...luck of the draw for those on his side. The seeding committee can not assume a medical forfeit even though that is what is likely to occur. It will not matter...they will still get 6 qualifiers out of the weight and he will get in through the wild card, if he is healthy enough for the NCAA's.

Rodriguez will get in to the tournament and do well. So will Zilmer. There is very little margin of error for the rest of the team. Like I said earlier...the Bison may get 1 or 2 more guys in. I am betting on 1 more for a total of 3. A 50% decline in last year.

Based on how unprepared and uninspired that the team has been this year...it will be disappointing if we have a large number of guys go 0-2...but that is possible for 5 or 6 guys.

[Big Bird]

Brackets are out http://www.flowrestling.org/arena/event/577-big-12-championship

Has to be a mistake at 125...no way is Drew Templeman the 9 seed and Romero the 4 seed...they surely should be flip flopped. Ream and Tynan have decent shots to qualify if they wrestle well. Tynan really needs to win his first match vs Dennison. Ream has Jeffries right off the bat, and then Kocer. That's tough, but if he can get by them, he's back in the big dance.

[BisoninNWMN]

Brackets are out http://www.flowrestling.org/arena/event/577-big-12-championship

Has to be a mistake at 125...no way is Drew Templeman the 9 seed and Romero the 4 seed...they surely should be flip flopped. Ream and Tynan have decent shots to qualify if they wrestle well. Tynan really needs to win his first match vs Dennison. Ream has Jeffries right off the bat, and then Kocer. That's tough, but if he can get by them, he's back in the big dance.


IMO, Tynan is the only other wrestler that has a shot at the NCAAs besides Zillmer and Rodriquez. He has to beat Harms to make it. Bengtson will have to get by Gross eventually to get to the NCAAs. Ream has too many good guys in front of him that have already beat him.

2 locks and one maybe. But I guess anything can happen.

Ok State loves having the WWC teams in for the tourney. It gives them a chance to get their whole team to the NCAAs.

[Snake]

Flo absolutely sucks. Really no good way to follow the tourney.

[Snake]

Ream could've just stayed home.

[Gladiator Dad]

And you can shut your pie hole snake

[SC_TX]

Nice win for Rodriguez

[Snake]

Calling it like I see it. Wasn't ready to go today.

[Gladiator Dad]

Calling it like I see it. Wasn't ready to go today.

I guess we were watching a different match then.

[Gladiator Dad]

Going back to some previous post about the wrestlers not supporting each other on the team, there are about 15 team members here in KC not wrestling to support their teammates that are in the tournament.

[Snake]

Tynan...smh

[Sweepsingle]

The guys are either cutting too much weight...or they are terribly out of shape. In the close matches the Bison are running out of gas in 3rd period. Very little offense and no sense of urgency in the close matches. Only 3 guys left on the championship side.

It is nice to see the guys that are not wrestling coming to watch...but that is expected. The whole season it has been missing, particularly on the bench during duals. Kish is coaching with more energy as well. Maybe he has figured out that the team responds to their leaders example.

[Sweepsingle]

But do they believe it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&a=&v=kUSBjfG8PwY&app=desktop

[Big Bird]

I missed the opening rounds but I'm excited to watch the 2 best 125 pounders square off and see Rodriguez punch his ticket to the finals!

Also, things aren't over for Tynan or Ream yet. The road back is difficult, but really, Tynan still needs to get by some similarly skilled guys and beat Harms...not much different than if he won his opener. Ream can battle back and if he gets by Box and the loser of Jeffries/Kocer, he's in...not much changed

[Big Bird]

That round couldn't have gone much worse....1 for 3 in the semis...Larson lost to Harms and Gross beat Meredith...

I think Ream has the best shot at being our 3rd...and he has a really tough road with Meeks, Box, then Kocer

[BisoninNWMN]

Probably just 2 going to the NCAAs.

[RadioBison]

By my count, so far we are 8-6 against last year's WWC and 4-8 against last year's Big XI. Let's hope for a good day tomorrow for our five remaining guys.

[RadioBison]

Dom Abounader just got beat, so Zillmer has a path to a #3 seed with a win tomorrow.

[Bisonwinagn]

Would be interesting to know when this is over how many NCAA spots were potentially lost (if any) by the WWC wrestlers due to being the Big 12 tourney.

[RadioBison]

If I'm not mistaken, the number of qualifiers by team so far are: OSU (9), ISU(4), OU(3), SDSU(3), NDSU(2), WY (2), UVU(1).

The are still 12 spots up for grabs.

[Christopher Moen]

Flo absolutely sucks. Really no good way to follow the tourney.

If you have trouble again tomorrow, let me know as I'm working with Flo's A-Team in Frisco for the Pan American Championships/Olympic Qualifier. I can turn around in my chair and yell at them for you.

Hope the Bison finish strong and perform better than our USA Team has done so far this weekend (second and third stringers slayed basically the same competition last weekend). Butt loads of money spent to give the #1's a great home field advantage.

[RadioBison]

That was a very nice win for Ream. Now he just needs to win his rematch with Mendenhall and he is in.

[RadioBison]

I'm very happy to see Clay Ream make it to NY.

[Sweepsingle]

Clay wrestled the best he has all season last night and today. Glad to see that he was able to punch his ticket. Zilmer needs to win in order for the Bison to finish 6th. SDSU has 3 in the finals and have done a nice job of building their program. Of course the top three are dominate with Big XII teams with OSU sending all 10 guys. The Big XII would like to thank the WWC for donating so many automatic qualifying spots to their cause. The weakness of this tournament gives OSU a chance to make a run at the National Championship. Of course PSU will have a dominating team at the top to chase!

The Bison need to make some significant changes if they are going to challenge next year. Can NDSU keep serve with SDSU and get better? Will 10-15 guys leave the team again? Will a high quality assistant want to come to Fargo? Is Kish the right guy?

[ndsubison1]

Ive seen some Bison fans in the stands on FSN

[Christopher Moen]

Clay wrestled the best he has all season last night and today. Glad to see that he was able to punch his ticket. Zilmer needs to win in order for the Bison to finish 6th. SDSU has 3 in the finals and have done a nice job of building their program. Of course the top three are dominate with Big XII teams with OSU sending all 10 guys. The Big XII would like to thank the WWC for donating so many automatic qualifying spots to their cause. The weakness of this tournament gives OSU a chance to make a run at the National Championship. Of course PSU will have a dominating team at the top to chase!

The Bison need to make some significant changes if they are going to challenge next year. Can NDSU keep serve with SDSU and get better? Will 10-15 guys leave the team again? Will a high quality assistant want to come to Fargo? Is Kish the right guy?

NDSU needs to aim much higher than SDSU if they want to be successful. For whatever reason, they hit a road block that negatively affected this season. Hopefully they can make the right adjustments and continue building on the success they had the previous 3-4 years.

[BisoninNWMN]

NDSU cannot wrestle worth a crap from the bottom.

Zillmer had a poor showing in the final.

[SC_TX]

Zilmer loses 8-7

[RadioBison]

NDSU cannot wrestle worth a crap from the bottom.

Zillmer had a poor showing in the final.

The way I look at it is that Zillmer was a couple seconds short of beating a really good opponent today. There isn't anybody in the NCAA field that the JPS can't beat in two weeks.

[BisoninNWMN]

The way I look at it is that Zillmer was a couple seconds short of beating a really good opponent today. There isn't anybody in the NCAA field that the JPS can't beat in two weeks.


He got road for almost the whole first period and he could have road out the opponent twice in the 3rd but looked like he was out of gas. The OSU guy had over 3 minutes of riding time to start the 3rd.

Good luck to the 3 going to the NCAAs.

[Gladiator Dad]

He got road for almost the whole first period and he could have road out the opponent twice in the 3rd but looked like he was out of gas. The OSU guy had over 3 minutes of riding time to start the 3rd.

Good luck to the 3 going to the NCAAs.

BisoninNWMN, because of the riding time issue going into the third Hayden had no choice but to cut the guy loose and go for takedowns. They had 3:02 of ride time going into the 3rd and with being down what he was on the scoreboard, he had to trade takedowns for escapes to try and win the match. I can't recall the last time Hayden has given up that much ride-time. I think if they meet again in the NCAAs that Hayden will correct his miscues that happened in the first and win the match.

[BisoninNWMN]

BisoninNWMN, because of the riding time issue going into the third Hayden had no choice but to cut the guy loose and go for takedowns. They had 3:02 of ride time going into the 3rd and with being down what he was on the scoreboard, he had to trade takedowns for escapes to try and win the match. I can't recall the last time Hayden has given up that much ride-time. I think if they meet again in the NCAAs that Hayden will correct his miscues that happened in the first and win the match.

He could have sent it into overtime if he would have road him on that last takedown. The riding time lost it for him.

I'm sure he'll learn and do better next time.

[Sweepsingle]

Clearly some of your knuckleheads have never strapped up a singlet. In tough matches, it is up to your coaches to keep you up to speed and guide the strategy during the match. I am not calculating time and deciding how much longer to hold him down. My coaches are there for that. Zilmer lost the match on the first take down...he was not ready when the action started...took to long to get off the bottom in the first. That was ultimately what cost him the match. His 3rd period was great. If he can bring that from match one in two weeks...he has a shot!

[Snake]

When are the brackets released?

[BisoninNWMN]

Clearly some of your knuckleheads have never strapped up a singlet. In tough matches, it is up to your coaches to keep you up to speed and guide the strategy during the match. I am not calculating time and deciding how much longer to hold him down. My coaches are there for that. Zilmer lost the match on the first take down...he was not ready when the action started...took to long to get off the bottom in the first. That was ultimately what cost him the match. His 3rd period was great. If he can bring that from match one in two weeks...he has a shot!



I already said that.

[Gladiator Dad]

When are the brackets released?

Probably not until the end of the week at the earliest, it looks like they will not announce the At Large Selections until Wednesday.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2016-02-25/di-wrestling-qualifier-allocations-coaches-rankings-and-rpi

After all of the qualifying events have concluded, the NCAA Division I Wrestling Committee will meet in-person to select the remaining 46 at-large qualifiers, which will be announced on March 9. All weight classes will consist of 33 wrestlers. The at-large selections will be made based on the following criteria: head-to-head competition; quality wins; coaches ranking; results against common opponents; RPI; qualifying event placement; and winning percentage

[Gladiator Dad]

I have a question for someone out there who might know the answer to this question and as to how this process would work.

If a wrestler get's DQ'd in the Conference Tournament, is that wrestler still eligible for an At-Large Bid Slot?

[Snake]

I would hope Benson and Tynan have a shot.

[Snake]

Beingston sorry.

[Sweepsingle]

I have a question for someone out there who might know the answer to this question and as to how this process would work.

If a wrestler get's DQ'd in the Conference Tournament, is that wrestler still eligible for an At-Large Bid Slot?

Do you have a specific example of someone that has been DQ'd? It would be difficult to justify putting a guy back in the NCAA tournament after he was DQ'd in the qualifying tournament.

[Gladiator Dad]

Do you have a specific example of someone that has been DQ'd? It would be difficult to justify putting a guy back in the NCAA tournament after he was DQ'd in the qualifying tournament.

Actually I do. Richardson from ODU was hit with a Flagrant Misconduct in the 149 Lb wrestleback semis at MAC Tournament and was DQ'd as a result. I think by rule he would not be eligible but I am not 100% on that one.

[Big Bird]

My interpretation is that he would not be eligible for a WC, as that requires sitting out the next event. Austin Marsden received a flagrant misconduct vs SDSU this year and was forced to sit out the next match vs MN

[RadioBison]

I would hope Benson and Tynan have a shot.

I don't think either one has a chance. They weren't on the coaches panel or the RPI list before going into the Big XII, and neither one did themselves any favors this weekend. Each guy has only one win over someone else that has already qualified. There are only 4 slots at 141 and 5 at 285, with lots of other guys that have more criteria.

[RadioBison]

Would be interesting to know when this is over how many NCAA spots were potentially lost (if any) by the WWC wrestlers due to being the Big 12 tourney.

According to my intepretation:

125) WV -> ISU
133) AF -> OSU
149) SDSU -> NDSU
197) WV -> ISU
197) UVU -> OSU

So, if I haven't made any mistakes, I would say that the Big XII took two spots from the WWC, but your mileage may vary. The WWC had at least one qualifier at every weight except for 165, so you could argue that we lost one more.