Not the Time to Play UND

[CaBisonFan]

This is not the right time to begin play with UND in football. *Gene Taylor's responsibility is to the development of a DI program and the athletes that compete for NDSU. *There is nothing to gain by defeating UND...and a lot to lose in the event of a loss. *It's my belief that SU would handle UND pretty well now. *If we could forget, for a moment, that it is UND...the idea of playing a DII football team just isn't all that appealing or beneficial at this time. *Recruits were promised a DI-AA experience with the possibility of playing a DI program from time to time. *

Emotionally...I feel that it is too soon for the rivalry to be rekindled. *I think that there would be some fans that would be capable of making it into an ugly scene. *The same emotions could carry onto the field in such a way that the game would become secondary. *

It is true that the AD at UND had nothing to do with past decisions regarding whether to compete or not. *It is not his fault. *And I don't question his professionalism. *

I believe that the presence of a DI hockey program in Grand Forks makes the two universities unique in terms of athletics...so when discussions come up about possible conferences for the two schools or a move up by UND, we're making a mistake by comparing the situations. *

NDSU has prided itself in having a GREAT football program since the early 60s. *It is the most dominant football program in the history of DII football. *NDSU has also prided itself in its wrestling and women's basketball programs. *These three programs...along with all others, is the responsibility that Gene Taylor carries. *He has no responsibility in terms of meeting the "wants" or "needs" of UND. *To this point, President Chapman and Gene Taylor have been bold and visionary. *They deserve great respect for steering the ship in a different direction...against some tough waves. *I believe that professionals like these two would agree to play UND if it made sense for the program. *I don't believe that they're controlled by the emotional side of the equation.

I lived in Brookiings, SD for 7 years during the 90s and grew to appreciate the quality of SDSU as an institution. *It has a lot of class. *The AD at SDSU deserves a Purple Heart for pushing the DI move in an environment that is ultra-conservative. *It also exists in a much smaller city (yet beautiful) that doesn't provide a huge hometown financial base. *They truly have to reach out to the entire state for everything that they get...and frankly...there is resentment toward the city of Brookings and the dealings of SDSU by a lot of South Dakotans. *Even though these people would say that they are proud of SDSU, they would also say that their tax dollars are being wasted by having a DI university in the state. *Talk about going against the grain...this AD has done it more than anyone.

So when discussions come up concerning whether SDSU can enter a conference with NDSU, or be replaced by UND, I can't help but think how incredibly unjust it would be for SDSU to be hung out to dry. *If NDSU were to receive an invitation to join the Big Sky or another strong conference, they would obviously have to consider it. *But I have to draw the line when I read or hear about UND replacing SDSU in the formula. *UND is a great university...and I have been a fan of some of their athletic teams since the Phil Jackson days. *But frankly, they haven't earned any consideration in regard to entering a DI conference. *Claims by UND fans that they will have a conference lined up before moving up is a nice thought...but I doubt that it works that way very often at this point in time. *It was different when DI-AA football was just beginning to take shape.

NDSU & SDSU did it the way that it HAD TO be done. *They are earning consideration the hard way. *My opinion is that the ncaa makes it too difficult to make the move by creating such a long waiting period before becoming playoff-eligible. *But we're well into the process now, we're seeing improvement on the field and on the court, we're enjoying trips to places like San Luis Obispo, Davis, CA, Southern Utah, Madison, WI.....and soon.....the big baggy in Minneapolis. *

The bottom line is that the leadership at NDSU and SDSU have done their jobs correctly....and with courage. *In my book, President Chapman could run for governor. *North Dakota could use a visionary with some real guts in Bismarck. *Let's support the people that have taken these bold steps. *And let's get on the case of the Fargo media...with the message being..."get behind the train and start pushing....don't just ride it when it's popular and easy."

No offense UND fans. *You have a great tradition to support up in GF...but we're headed in different directions at the time. *Competition won't make any sense unless UND chooses to move up. *As for me....frankly....I don't give a damn. *I'm focused on watching NDSU's football program returning to a DI caliber of play (like in the dynasty years), and I'm excited about watching the Bison play Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, etc. *No matter what the score is....we're in the big-time....and we get to watch some real football again.

[TheBisonator]

I agree 100 percent. I think the thing people have to understand about UND decision towards moving to DI is that both their AD (a well-rounded decent guy) and their president (a weasel) have said that they will not move to Division I until they have a conference lined up for them first. Well folks, that kind of thing can't happen in this part of the country. UND is not in Georgia. Their (and our and SDSU's) situation is not the same as that of Kennesaw State or Central Arkansas. There just aren't any groups of 12-14 mid-major DI schools nearby in the Upper Midwest like in the Southeast. If UND truly wants to move up, they're going to have to accept the fact that they will have to wallow as an independent for at least 2-3 years. that's the harsh reality that they will soon have to accept. If they do not want to go through with that, then they will simply have to deal with being in DII for the forseeable future.

As for playing them, I don't think it should happen for a while, at least until emotions settle down. I personally don't have a problem with playing either UND or another DII school every year once we're playoff-eligible. (I have had a personal problem for the past year with the idea of UND moving to DI, but I've never had a problem with playing them again in general. But I think it needs some time to simmer down.) As long as we play only one DII school, and we play at least one DI-A school per year, I have no beef with our schedule strength. I think that if/when UND announces next week that they want to stay in DII (and believe me, I'm starting to think more and more that it's going to happen, due to the interviews with President Weasel Kupchella), then there will be certainty in place, and then emotions can settle down, and maybe Gene and Mr. Bunning can work something out for the near future. But as for now, I think with all the emotions and the uncertainties about what UND will do, I think emotions are just too high.

Edited by Admin/tony: hehe, I'm a fine one to talk but *please try to refer to folks by their proper names instead of calling them names. This is not the smack board (as I keep having to remind myself) and name calling is not even worthy of the smack board anyway - and, yeah, once again, I'm a fine one to talk. Please don't take it personally.

[NanoBison]

CaBisonFan, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Damn it feels good to be a Bison 8-)

[tony]

It might not be the time to schedule UND, but, like it or not, I think it's coming soon, and it doesn't matter whether they go DI or stay in DII.

President Kupchella won't be around at UND forever and maybe the new guy will be more like Buning or Tom Clifford.

Edited by admin: Hehehe, I had to edit my own post to stay more on topic and be less smacky. Won't I ever learn?

[Bison_Dan]

It might not be the time to schedule UND, but, like it or not, it's coming soon, and it doesn't matter whether they go DI or stay in DII.

Edited by tony: Cripes, I didn't edit my post fast enough and it got quoted. I've edited out the parts that I thought went too far off topic but had to leave that stuff in about the Herald because Bison_Dan refers to it.

Hehe, one thing I'm kind of enjoying (in a somewhat evil way) is the Grand Forks Herald's complete silence on the issue. Man, they could not shut up for two solid years when it was NDSU trying to make a decision, but now they have nothing to say on the matter? Poor guys, I guess they don't know what to print until UND tells them what their position should be :)

I was going to post the same thing - I was up to see my brothers this weekend (by gf) and saw the Saturday and Sunday gf Herald. *Not a word on all the stuff going on at und. *I think your right und hasn't given the Herald their marching orders yet. *With all the top management und grads it's to be expected.

[roadwarrior]

Yet another topic on UND? Haven't we discussed this exact topic at least in 109,875 previous posts on this board :(

[Swaghook]

Edited by admin: Hehehe, I had to edit my own post to stay more on topic and be less smacky. Won't I ever learn?

It's a disease. ;) ;D

[CaBisonFan]

It might not be the time to schedule UND, but, like it or not, I think it's coming soon, and it doesn't matter whether they go DI or stay in DII.

President Kupchella won't be around at UND forever and maybe the new guy will be more like Buning or Tom Clifford.

Edited by admin: Hehehe, I had to edit my own post to stay more on topic and be less smacky. Won't I ever learn?

I disagree. *Kupchella hasn't been acting on his own. *He has a boardroom of people to listen to. *You may not like his style or his actions, but his actions are reactions to the larger UND community. *If he had the support (or the finances) to move up, the actual process would have already begun. *The hockey program wags the dog in GF, which diffuses the desire to move up in other sports. *Their flagship program can operate in the world of DI without affecting the other programs. *So politically, the hockey fans could care less about a move. *Hockey is where the money and prestige is in GF. *The prestige at NDSU is in football. *Kupchella is the scapegoat in a larger picture. *The football fans at UND do not carry much clout in relation to the hockey faithful. *NDSU won't play UND until the rosters are jammed with DI-AA recruits throughout the depth chart. *Taylor and Chapman are protecting the program and the process. *We'll play them when we're good and ready. *Buning would like it to be sooner than later...for obvious reasons. *It's a chess game.

[RedRiver]

No the Bison will not be playing the Sioux in the near future. We have been discussing this subject for the past week in other topics. Unless they are on the schedule it doesn't make sense to even talk about the issue. It is time to move on!!

[broke_back_mnt]

It may be time to move on, but the comment about Kupchella is interesting. He comes from out of state. To have such contempt for NDSU is something he was taught once he arrived. I think its evidence that at UND the hatred for NDSU is institutional. If thats true, new blood may not help. Bunnings sincerity may not be what it appears either?

Kupchellas latest is trying to block funding for NDSU by including all the operating expenses etc for the extension services and agricultural services extended to the State through NDSU. That would change the peer to peer comparison giving UND almost all of the 2 mill available, leaving NDSU with $13,700. These budgets should not be included anymore than the hospital budgets where their interns put in their time.

Currently the ag budgets mentioned are excluded from the peer to peer comparison.

[Bigears]

It may be time to move on, but the comment about Kupchella is interesting. *He comes from out of state. To have such contempt for NDSU is something he was taught once he arrived. *I think its evidence that at UND the hatred for NDSU is institutional. *If thats true, new blood may not help. Bunnings sincerity may not be what it appears either? *

Kupchellas latest is trying to block funding for NDSU by including all the operating expenses etc for the extension services and agricultural services extended to the State through NDSU. *That would change the peer to peer comparison giving UND almost all of the 2 mill available, leaving NDSU with $13,700. *These budgets should not be included anymore than the hospital budgets where their interns put in their time.

Currently the ag budgets mentioned are excluded from the peer to peer comparison. *

You're absolutely right, the problem is institutional. If we turn our backs for a second they will screw us over every single time. Absent some evidence of change, we need to just say NO!

[89rabbit]

I lived in Brookiings, SD for 7 years during the 90s and grew to appreciate the quality of SDSU as an institution. *It has a lot of class. *The AD at SDSU deserves a Purple Heart for pushing the DI move in an environment that is ultra-conservative. *It also exists in a much smaller city (yet beautiful) that doesn't provide a huge hometown financial base. *They truly have to reach out to the entire state for everything that they get...and frankly...there is resentment toward the city of Brookings and the dealings of SDSU by a lot of South Dakotans. *Even though these people would say that they are proud of SDSU, they would also say that their tax dollars are being wasted by having a DI university in the state. *Talk about going against the grain...this AD has done it more than anyone.





You have hit the nail on the head; however I feel the need to expand on your take. *SDSU has done a great job of gaining support thoughout the state, but we need to do an even better job in the future. *One of the reasons to move to D-I is to break South Dakotans of the idea that SDSU is Brookings' school. *For too long too many people have thought of SDSU as Brookings' school, USD as Vermillion's school and Augie as Sioux Falls' school and they aligned themselves using that thought process.

This has allowed Augie to exist on a nearly equal footing in many peoples minds with the two flagship Universities. *When the truth is they really have no right too, on many different levels. *We all know that Augie has much more in common with Morningside, then it does with the Flagship schools, *but some in South Dakota viewed then as Sioux Falls' school and since they lived in Sioux Falls that was who they supported. *As the rest of the old NCC grew away from Augie and they became less and less competitive Sioux Falls, rather then looking to one of the flagship schools, became enamored with a NAIA school - the University of Sioux Falls. *This now gave them two schools to call their own and one of them was a winner, be it in a lesser division. *It got to the point that a few years ago you would see equal coverage of SDSU, USD, Augie, and USF by the local Sioux Falls media. *:-?

For SDSU to be successful in the future we need to out grow the notion that we are Brookings' school and capture even more of the State's (especially Sioux Falls) support. *We need to separate ourselves from the pack. *One of the ways for us to do this was with athletics. *This thought process seems to be working. *SDSU has long been the largest University in the state but the gap is growing wider at an ever increasing pass and that is great news for my school. *As proof I offer up the example below. *

SDSU Winning Recruiting Battle for State's Students

South Dakota State University is the choice of nearly half of the 2005 South Dakota high school graduates now attending one of the state’s six public institutions.

Of the 2,213 freshmen from South Dakota that are in the state’s system, 1,019 are enrolled at SDSU. The next closest is the University of South Dakota, with 510. SDSU is also winning the recruiting effort in the state’s largest county of Minnehaha*. Of the 428 freshmen from Minnehaha County enrolled in the state system, 243 are at SDSU. The remaining 185 are spread among the other state schools. It’s estimated that by 2010, 40% of the state’s high school graduates will reside in Minnehaha County.


*Most of Sioux Falls is in Minnehaha the rest is in Lincoln County

Although this information is about state supported schools it is clear that Augie (enrollment of 2,000 give or take) and USF (enrollment of 2,000 give or take) *with their limited enrollments would play a very small part in this equation if they had been included.


I believe that President Miller and Dr. Oien are visionaries and although they have taken more then their fair share of shots from the timid (as visionaries often do) who wish to keep everything the same. *They have made a wise choice for SDSU that will be seen as a watershed moment years from now and will guarantee that SDSU will be the predominant source of higher education in South Dakota for years to come.


Go State! *:)

[CaBisonFan]

Yet another topic on UND? *Haven't we discussed this exact topic at least in 109,875 previous posts on this board :(

I give you permission not to discuss this anymore. *It's OK. When you see this posting...don't open it up.

[MplsBison]

An interesting thing about SD, though, is that SD Tech has a real 4 year ABET accredited engineering program. USD has no engineering.

Whereas in ND you have to go to UND or NDSU and ND Science College is only a 2 year school.

[imabison]

Yet another topic on UND? *Haven't we discussed this exact topic at least in 109,875 previous posts on this board :(

I give you permission not to discuss this anymore. *It's OK. *When you see this posting...don't open it up.


How about we make a decree that ANY further discussion about the School up North be labeled as the School up North?

And also it stopped being discussed.

[02Bison]

"Ho! a cheer for Green and Yellow
Up with Yellow and the Green..."

[sambini]

THERE SITS AN OLD ABANDONED OUT HOUSE CALLED THE UNIVERSITY. HAIL THE BISON, HAIL THE BISON, WITH OUR TAILS UP IN THE AIR, UNIVERSITY, UNIVERSITY YOU CAN KISS WHATS UNDER THERE.

[02Bison]

http://www.ndsu.edu/ndsu/goldstarband/archives/media/audio/3.mp3

Just listening to that makes me long for game day! Bring on Concordia-St.Paul, Rocky and his Northeastern boys, Ball State, Stephen F. Austin, Georgia Southern, Mississippi Valley State, Minnesota, Southern Utah, UC Davis, Cal Poly and those pesky yet civil Jackrabbits from SDSU. Its going to be a great year of Bison football! ON BISON! GO BISON!

[Bisonguy]

http://www.ndsu.edu/ndsu/goldstarband/archives/media/audio/3.mp3

Just listening to that makes me long for game day! Bring on Concordia-St.Paul, Rocky and his Northeastern boys, Ball State, Stephen F. Austin, Georgia Southern, Mississippi Valley State, Minnesota, Southern Utah, UC Davis, Cal Poly and those pesky yet civil Jackrabbits from SDSU. *Its going to be a great year of Bison football! ON BISON! GO BISON!


LOL- I have that one on the iPod, along with a few others from the GSMB!

It always puts a smile on my face if it's playing while I'm driving. :)

[CaBisonFan]

THERE SITS AN OLD ABANDONED OUT HOUSE CALLED THE UNIVERSITY. HAIL THE BISON, HAIL THE BISON, WITH OUR TAILS UP IN THE AIR, UNIVERSITY, UNIVERSITY YOU CAN KISS WHATS UNDER THERE.

Is this an actual song...and is it recorded? *If it is, I'd like a copy. *Cool. * 8-)

[02Bison]

"On the plains of North Dakota, standing there for all to see,
is an old abandoned outhouse and they called it UND.
Hail the Bison. Hail the Bison, with your tails up in the air,
University, University, Sioux can kiss what's under there."

Its a long standing song sung by Bison faithful in the student section...it gets kind of crude at the end, but to each his own...

[WYOBISONMAN]

"On the plains of North Dakota, standing there for all to see,
is an old abandoned outhouse and they called it UND.
Hail the Bison. Hail the Bison, with your tails up in the air,
University, University, Sioux can kiss what's under there."

Its a long standing song sung by Bison faithful in the student section...it gets kind of crude at the end, but to each his own...


OK....it is 9:46 in the morning......and after reading the lyrics to that old song.....I suddenly have an intense craving to go and pound a few beers......... ;)

[sambini]

Have a couple of BUDWEISER SELECTS++++++++++++++++

[Bigears]

Maybe I'm an old geezer, but we always sang it this way:

"Far across the plains of Fargo, there for all to see,
stands an old abandoned outhouse called the University.
Hail the Bison, Hail the Bison, with their tails up in the air,
University, University, you can kiss what's under there."

I guess this is from the "AC" era, when the word "University" clearly referred to UND.

[kchats]

We didn't include UND in it when I was at NDSU either and I graduated in 1990.

[SUCB#27]

Maybe I'm an old geezer, but we always sang it this way:

"Far across the plains of Fargo, there for all to see,
stands an old abandoned outhouse called the University.
Hail the Bison, Hail the Bison, with their tails up in the air,
University, University, you can kiss what's under there."

I guess this is from the "AC" era, when the word "University" clearly referred to UND.


The players still sing it like this.

[kchats]

That is the way I remember it too.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Maybe I'm an old geezer, but we always sang it this way:

"Far across the plains of Fargo, there for all to see,
stands an old abandoned outhouse called the University.
Hail the Bison, Hail the Bison, with their tails up in the air,
University, University, you can kiss what's under there."

I guess this is from the "AC" era, when the word "University" clearly referred to UND.


That was my version too........Still craving a beer.........Bud Select will work as I don't need the carbs!!!