FBS Excuses

[awBison]

With the upcoming Iowa game, I checked out several FBS forums and the list of pathetic excuses that they come up with for consistently getting dominated by us year after year is very entertaining. Their posts show a remarkably high level of both creativity and complete thoughtlessness all in one.

So here is the thread. Quote the previous post's text only and add to the list. If possible highlight the hypocrisy of excuses by posting two excuses that contradict each other in one (see excuses #2). Feel free to add to excuses/contradictions if you see some good opportunities.

* = Excuses
- = Comments

1).
* We just had a bad team that year and you could never complete with a good FBS team.
- I actually saw this one one Gopher hole. The team that out of three years playing them
we dominated two and lost by 1 point the other game; with the 1 point loss being
a year in which we hadn't even really had a chance to settle in as a D1 team.
- Five years in a row of bad teams (one the reigning co-champs)?
- If that is true why are the "good" FBS teams not scheduling us?

2).
* The only reason you guys won was because we lost our top players from last year.
* NDSU could never compete with us because we have so much more depth.
- So lets get this straight. The reason we won is because you had no depth but
at the same time we could never compete with FBS teams because they have
so much depth?

3).
* We are much bigger, stronger and more physical than any FCS team.
- Yep, five straight years of getting physically dominated would support that now wouldn't it?

4).
* You could never compete at our level because our coaching is much better.
* Announcers/fans during games constantly commenting and saying that the only reason
we are kicking their butts is because the FBS team's coaches are making bad play calls
and bad decisions.

5).
*

[tony]

I don't mind the excuses FBS folks make as long as the Bison win. :)

Besides, nothing tops "NDSU's AD was a genius at scheduling because he knew he was going to get FBS teams when they were at their worst" which gets credence from people who should know better.

[bloodmakesthegrassgrow]

We dominated them in the 1 point loss too. A point their head coach made in the Post Game Presser.

Another thing that gets me is they say you could never win consistently over the long haul, e.g., in our conference. Never taking into account that over the long haul we, being in their conference, would have the same schollies as they do.

[ndsubison1]

http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?30820-Kansas-State-Excuses&highlight=kansas+state+excuses

[ZHerd]

The lack of depth argument (80 vs 60some scholarships) as to why we couldn't compete an entire season is a terrible argument. Very few guys end up lost for the year to injury and only 11 guys start on offense and 11 more on defense. That is only 22 by my math. NDSU has done just fine beating teams with more scholarships because our players are better and play a better brand of football. The big difference in roster composition is not as much scholarship numbers as in the quality of recruit. We typically get whoever P5 doesn't want and scholarship availability has nothing to do with it. Sometimes we beat out G5 teams though this year they seem to have a bit of an upper hand (we lost a local recruit to Buffalo...stinking Buffalo!). Take 20 scholarships away from Bama for 4 years and they will still be a top tier FBS team because of who they are able to recruit with their 60. It's a dumb argument...especially considering that it's P5 players always leaving with cramps because NDSU is in better condition. We would physically fare better over a FBS season schedule than many FBS teams even with our fewer scholarships. Ok rant over. For the record I would like us to have 80 available scholarships and it would help but pretty obvious that isn't a major reason for why we would be successful

[MNLonghorn10]

Eh I don't think it's that bad of an argument..I also think fbs is bigger and faster than fcs where those hits, and playing faster take a toll over the course of a season. No worries about a chubby white guy named Jake from something called incarnate word chasing you down either.

Unless NDSU had the same playing ground as those with more advantages, I find it extremely tough for them to compete a full season. Insert the clichéd "all they have to do is prepare for one game a season, that's why their fbs record is dominating" line here.

[ZHerd]

Eh I don't think it's that bad of an argument..I also think fbs is bigger and faster than fcs where those hits, and playing faster take a toll over the course of a season. No worries about a chubby white guy named Jake from something called incarnate word chasing you down either.

Unless NDSU had the same playing ground as those with more advantages, I find it extremely tough for them to compete a full season. Insert the clichéd "all they have to do is prepare for one game a season, that's why their fbs record is dominating" line here.

Nah...NDSU is already as big and harder hitting than many FBS teams. I think playing UNI takes a greater attrition toll than playing most MWC teams would. The NFL has the biggest, fastest, hardest hitting dudes on the planet and they manage to get by with a much longer season and on only "53 scholarships." Telling Ya the whole thing's overblown

[MNLonghorn10]

You don't play UNI 11 times a year. For every UNI there's a USD, ISUb, MO St and Weber St to be played. Meanwhile g5 and p5 schools beat up on eachother

[BisonNation11]

You don't play UNI 11 times a year. For every UNI there's a USD, ISUb, MO St and Weber St to be played. Meanwhile g5 and p5 schools beat up on eachother

For every Ohio State there's a Gopher. For every TCU or Texas A&M there's a Kansas/Iowa St. For every NIU or Bowling Green there's a directional Michigan school. Every conference has its push overs. It's no different. And if NDSU went FBS we'd be landing all FBS talent kids. I don't see how it's that big of a stretch to say we'd compete. Money wouldn't be there but the program wouldn't change. Not to mention they have push over OOC games as well. Every about FBS screams they are bigger, faster, more athletic. Which is why extra games for a playoff is too much wear and tear on them excuse is a joke. If "lesser" kids can do it, so can the big boys.

[MNLonghorn10]

For every Ohio State there's a Gopher. For every TCU or Texas A&M there's a Kansas/Iowa St. For every NIU or Bowling Green there's a directional Michigan school. Every conference has its push overs. It's no different. And if NDSU went FBS we'd be landing all FBS talent kids. I don't see how it's that big of a stretch to say we'd compete. Money wouldn't be there but the program wouldn't change. Not to mention they have push over OOC games as well. Every about FBS screams they are bigger, faster, more athletic. Which is why extra games for a playoff is too much wear and tear on them excuse is a joke. If "lesser" kids can do it, so can the big boys.
All of the bottom feeder p5s are loads better than any bottom feeder mvfc team. If sdsu can escape Lawrence on a botched snap and dreadful second half then go ahead beat up on the valley, why is Kansas in the same breath as the other plebs of the valley?

Don't get me wrong, there are still p5 turds that higher ups look forward to for the bye week factor, but it's still more of a grind than NDSU having to play UNI. Let's not get to carried away with the homerism here. There are some really bad fcs teams that'll get throttled by really bad p5 teams


This is all because NDSU has 60 schollies compared to 85, you know that right?

[ZHerd]

You don't play UNI 11 times a year. For every UNI there's a USD, ISUb, MO St and Weber St to be played. Meanwhile g5 and p5 schools beat up on eachother

Imo attrition wouldn't be an issue for NDSU in any G5 conference. We could go in now with 63 scholarships and play any G5 schedule fairly tough and most G5 teams we played would end up more beat up than NDSU. When it comes to competing in a P5 conference I still think the issue comes down to talent far more than attrition. Which P5 teams we played beat us up? Which G5 conferences are such a big grind NDSU couldn't handle them?

[ByeSonBusiness]

For every Ohio State there's a Gopher. For every TCU or Texas A&M there's a Kansas/Iowa St. For every NIU or Bowling Green there's a directional Michigan school. Every conference has its push overs. It's no different. And if NDSU went FBS we'd be landing all FBS talent kids. I don't see how it's that big of a stretch to say we'd compete. Money wouldn't be there but the program wouldn't change. Not to mention they have push over OOC games as well. Every about FBS screams they are bigger, faster, more athletic. Which is why extra games for a playoff is too much wear and tear on them excuse is a joke. If "lesser" kids can do it, so can the big boys.

I disagree with this point.

So for every top-tier Big 12 team and middle-lower tier SEC team, there is a bottom of the barrel P5 team? The math won't add up there.

[Vet70]

Fans and their excuses are one thing---At least Snyder was very complimentary after the K-State loss and their AD said something to the effect that after he signed off on the game and we beat KU he thought to himself, "What have I done."

[MNLonghorn10]

Imo attrition wouldn't be an issue for NDSU in any G5 conference. We could go in now with 63 scholarships and play any G5 schedule fairly tough and most G5 teams we played would end up more beat up than NDSU. When it comes to competing in a P5 conference I still think the issue comes down to talent far more than attrition. Which P5 teams we played beat us up? Which G5 conferences are such a big grind NDSU couldn't handle them?
It's one game and normally the first or second of the season after a cupcake. After 2 months of b12 play do you think Kansas state is really going to be cramping up on NDSU? Let's be real here

[ZHerd]

It's one game and normally the first or second of the season after a cupcake. After 2 months of b12 play do you think Kansas state is really going to be cramping up on NDSU? Let's be real here

A full season is merely a conglomerate of "one game"s. Not trying to be a jerk but that argument is a P5 fan favorite that assumes that their team will improve in play, skill, conditioning etc. and your team won't. The last two P5 teams we faced were dropping like flys. I'm not going to assume that would be different in week 10 than week one simply because of the conference label they play under. For the record, I think the 2013 Bison improved more over the course of the season than 2013 Kstate. If we played week 12 I think we would have beat them again

[ByeSonBusiness]

A full season is merely a conglomerate of "one game"s. Not trying to be a jerk but that argument is a P5 fan favorite that assumes that their team will improve in play, skill, conditioning etc. and your team won't. The last two P5 teams we faced were dropping like flys. I'm not going to assume that would be different in week 10 than week one simply because of the conference label they play under. For the record, I think the 2013 Bison improved more over the course of the season than 2013 Kstate. If we played week 12 I think we would have beat them again

Take off the green glasses.

[MNLonghorn10]

2013 was a mirage, agree with you there. I still think it'll be tougher to beat a p5 after a full grind of a season compared to having a full summer to prep, condition, do their due diligence on. I think it's an all in factor for NDSU coaches. They don't have to worry about whatever sorry team they have to play in September like the p5 school they're facing has to look forward to.

NDSU caught a lot of breaks as well with coach changes. Another fbs excuse.




Not that I really care about any of this in the end. Beating any p5 is better than a national championship in my eyes and its fucking awesome to attend those games and see it in person. Smugness of opposing fans faces and their sweet tasting tears

[ZHerd]

Take off the green glasses.

Then give me something substantial to work with. Kstate improved some but I watched them several times and I'll easily say NDSU improved more...particularly on offense. Kstate still would have been unable to run and it would have come down to their NFL WR vs our NFL cb with likely similar results to game one.

[MNLonghorn10]

Then give me something substantial to work with. Kstate improved some but I watched them several times and I'll easily say NDSU improved more...particularly on offense. Kstate still would have been unable to run and it would have come down to their NFL WR vs our NFL cb with likely similar results to game one.
Don't know how you see bison improvement. They picked a score the rest of the season besides the uni game.

[IzzyFlexion]

It's one game and normally the first or second of the season after a cupcake. After 2 months of b12 play do you think Kansas state is really going to be cramping up on NDSU? Let's be real here

Well.............speaking to their defensive players..............

Sick of cramping and limping off of the field?? Then, try to stop an FCS offense from running 18 plays over the course of 9 minutes of clock on fireworks/stadium re-dedication night! :rofl:

I don't recall............but was it the dudes on their defense that were cramping? I don't friggin' know.....just tryin' to aggravate leghorn.

[ByeSonBusiness]

Then give me something substantial to work with. Kstate improved some but I watched them several times and I'll easily say NDSU improved more...particularly on offense. Kstate still would have been unable to run and it would have come down to their NFL WR vs our NFL cb with likely similar results to game one.

by the last 3rd or so of the season they were starting to look pretty well-oiled. Their bowl game against Michigan in particular was pretty cool. They needed some time to get themselves figured out I think. NDSU on the other hand, had the bulk of 2-3 seasons playing together. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter though. They played week 1, not week 12.

[BisonNation11]

I disagree with this point.

So for every top-tier Big 12 team and middle-lower tier SEC team, there is a bottom of the barrel P5 team? The math won't add up there.

14 teams in the SEC. 7 finished with .500 or lower total winning pct. in conference play. 4 teams didn't even reach .500 for the year and Auburn went 7-6 with a squeak out win over our favorite puds from Alabama. 14 teams in the Big 10. 7 teams finished with under .500 winning pct for the year with Penn St. sitting at 7-6. 8 teams went .500 or less in conference play. 10 teams in the Big 12. 6 finished under .500 in conference play. 4 finished under .500 for the year with Texas Tech at 7-6. Kansas didn't win a game all year. Pac 12, half the teams didn't finish .500 in conference and 3 finished under .500 for the year with two more teams at 7-6. Oregon St. didn't win a conference game. Colorado won one. So yeah, for every top team, there's a lower team. It's just the way it is. Of course there's middle of the road teams as well. It's called balance. It's how it works.

[MNLonghorn10]

14 teams in the SEC. 7 finished with .500 or lower total winning pct. in conference play. 4 teams didn't even reach .500 for the year and Auburn went 7-6 with a squeak out win over our favorite puds from Alabama. 14 teams in the Big 10. 7 teams finished with under .500 winning pct for the year with Penn St. sitting at 7-6. 8 teams went .500 or less in conference play. 10 teams in the Big 12. 6 finished under .500 in conference play. 4 finished under .500 for the year with Texas Tech at 7-6. Kansas didn't win a game all year. Pac 12, half the teams didn't finish .500 in conference and 3 finished under .500 for the year with two more teams at 7-6. Oregon St. didn't win a conference game. Colorado won one. So yeah, for every top team, there's a lower team. It's just the way it is. Of course there's middle of the road teams as well. It's called balance. It's how it works.
By this method what is the spread on Kansas, Minnesota, Iowa state vs Missouri state, USD and others?

No need to sugar coat it either, let's see them vs the worst of the Southland, Ohio valley and others! Not just the valley

[ByeSonBusiness]

14 teams in the SEC. 7 finished with .500 or lower total winning pct. in conference play. 4 teams didn't even reach .500 for the year and Auburn went 7-6 with a squeak out win over our favorite puds from Alabama. 14 teams in the Big 10. 7 teams finished with under .500 winning pct for the year with Penn St. sitting at 7-6. 8 teams went .500 or less in conference play. 10 teams in the Big 12. 6 finished under .500 in conference play. 4 finished under .500 for the year with Texas Tech at 7-6. Kansas didn't win a game all year. Pac 12, half the teams didn't finish .500 in conference and 3 finished under .500 for the year with two more teams at 7-6. Oregon St. didn't win a conference game. Colorado won one. So yeah, for every top team, there's a lower team. It's just the way it is. Of course there's middle of the road teams as well. It's called balance. It's how it works.

Still wrong. My statement says for every top tier team(not to be confused with conference champion) and .500ish team, there is not a Kansas and Iowa St who are probably among the 5 worst P5 schools out there.

Record won't necessarily tell the whole story either depending on the conference. Also see Longhorn's post above.

[BisonNation11]

By this method what is the spread on Kansas, Minnesota, Iowa state vs Missouri state, USD and others?

I'm not comparing FCS to FBS. I'm saying I don't care what division/conference you're in, there's usually a balance between really good schools/teams and really bad schools/teams. Soccer lover disagreed with my previous statement so I showed him every conference has it. We all know lower tier FBS teams would wipe the floor with lower tier FCS/MVFC teams.

[BisonNation11]

Still wrong. My statement says for every top tier team(not to be confused with conference champion) and .500ish team, there is not a Kansas and Iowa St who are probably among the 5 worst P5 schools out there.

Record won't necessarily tell the whole story either depending on the conference. Also see Longhorn's post above.

Explain the SEC East then

[ByeSonBusiness]

Explain the SEC East then

What about it?

[BisonNation11]

What about it?

It sucks... Pud teams. In the best conference in all the land, still shitty teams. Add in all the .500 teams you want. That's middle of the road team. I said for every top tier team there's a pud. Which is true. According to you, not so much. So prove it. Don't just throw words out there to make yourself sound better. Back it up. I did.

[ByeSonBusiness]

It sucks... Pud teams. In the best conference in all the land, still shitty teams. Add in all the .500 teams you want. That's middle of the road team. I said for every top tier team there's a pud. Which is true. According to you, not so much. So prove it. Don't just throw words out there to make yourself sound better. Back it up. I did.

I don't recall saying the SEC East is a good collection of teams. Feel free to show me where I did.

Your idea of a pud and mine are probably different.

[BisonNation11]

I don't recall saying the SEC East is a good collection of teams. Feel free to show me where I did.

Your idea of a pud and mine are probably different.

You said for every top tier team there isn't enough bad teams to equal out. I proved it did. You said I was wrong. I asked you to explain the SEC East. You talked in a circle. Here we are. I put out statistics to prove it. You talk in circles. I'm up for discussion but if I'm the only one proving anything we run out of things to discuss pretty quickly.

And yes, we probably do view teams differently. That's the beauty of it all.

[ByeSonBusiness]

You said for every top tier team there isn't enough bad teams to equal out. I proved it did. You said I was wrong. I asked you to explain the SEC East. You talked in a circle. Here we are. I put out statistics to prove it. You talk in circles. I'm up for discussion but if I'm the only one proving anything we run out of things to discuss pretty quickly.

And yes, we probably do view teams differently. That's the beauty of it all.


Ok, SEC East.

Florida 10-4 (7-1)
Tennessee 9-4 (5-3)
Georgia 10-3 (5-3)
Vandy 4-8 (2-6)
Kentucky 5-7 (2-6)
Missouri 5-7 (1-7)
South Carolina 3-9 (1-7)


1-2 very bad teams. 2-3 mediocre teams. 3 good(not great) teams. Sucks for them that the SEC-West is pretty good right now, tough to get any wins in crossover play I imagine. Florida had some potential until the qb got busted for the juice. Tennessee didn't understand you have to play 4 quarters for awhile as well.

I see what your saying though. I had forgotten how down South Carolina and Mizzou were.

[CyPanth]

For every Ohio State there's a Gopher.

Don't you mean, "for every Ohio State there's an Iowa?"

[BisonNation11]

Don't you mean, "for every Ohio State there's an Iowa?"
After we ruin their season next year, damn straight! :D

[BisonNation11]

Ok, SEC East.

Florida 10-4 (7-1)
Tennessee 9-4 (5-3)
Georgia 10-3 (5-3)
Vandy 4-8 (2-6)
Kentucky 5-7 (2-6)
Missouri 5-7 (1-7)
South Carolina 3-9 (1-7)


1-2 very bad teams. 2-3 mediocre teams. 3 good(not great) teams. Sucks for them that the SEC-West is pretty good right now, tough to get any wins in crossover play I imagine. Florida had some potential until the qb got busted for the juice. Tennessee didn't understand you have to play 4 quarters for awhile as well.

I see what your saying though. I had forgotten how down South Carolina and Mizzou were.
I figure last season to be an oddity. Point was conferences tend to be balanced.

[Green1]

FBS assertion- "FCS teams would not hold up to an FBS season."

FBS excuse- "FBS can not have a legitimate(FCS-style) playoff. Our teams can't hold up to that many games."

[ZHerd]

FBS assertion- "FCS teams would not hold up to an FBS season."

FBS excuse- "FBS can not have a legitimate(FCS-style) playoff. Our teams can't hold up to that many games."

Pretty well sums it up. Only the levels above (NFL) and below (FCS) are capable of such a grind

[ndsubison1]

Give us 22 more schollys and see how we do. Thats one more scholly for every offensive/defensive position.

[56BISON73]

Give us 22 more schollys and see how we do. Thats one more scholly for every offensive/defensive position.

We already give those schollies out. They just arent all full rides.

[MNLonghorn10]

Pretty well sums it up. Only the levels above (NFL) and below (FCS) are capable of such a grind
It has nothing to do with the amount of games but the weekly level of competition. NDSU has pretty much 2 known games a year they know they have to be mentally ready for a physical game for.... Uni and the fbs game(if there's one). Then the playoff brackets depend on what teams come to Fargo. Usually a softie or 2 and a battle.

How many mentally ready games do the top p5 teams have to be ready for? Imo, all of their conference (including perhaps the 1 team ndsu plays) plus another maybe a p5 or two ooc game? And you're telling me that fcs NDSU has the same shot in November as they do in August after playing an fbs schedule? This is erroneous. Erroneous on both counts


I know this place is criticized for homerism but this is getting out of hand

[ZHerd]

It has nothing to do with the amount of games but the weekly level of competition. NDSU has pretty much 2 known games a year they know they have to be mentally ready for a physical game for.... Uni and the fbs game(if there's one). Then the playoff brackets depend on what teams come to Fargo. Usually a softie or 2 and a battle.

How many mentally ready games do the top p5 teams have to be ready for? Imo, all of their conference (including perhaps the 1 team ndsu plays) plus another maybe a p5 or two ooc game? And you're telling me that fcs NDSU has the same shot in November as they do in August after playing an fbs schedule? This is erroneous. Erroneous on both counts


I know this place is criticized for homerism but this is getting out of hand

We were referring to, and mocking one of the FBS excuses for why they don't have have a real playoff system so just UN-bunch your undies. Every last excuse I've heard in that regard is lame. And yes, if FCS, and NFL players are capable of that kind of grind then so is FBS. If not I guess the NFL wouldnt draft FBS players

[ZHerd]

Also, you never answered a question I asked yesterday. Which G5 conference do you think would be such a physical grind?

[BisonNation11]

It has nothing to do with the amount of games but the weekly level of competition.

This was my point from yesterday. Every conference has cupcakes, I don't care what you say. A good 3-4 teams where you show up for one half and coast the rest. Not to mention OOC games can be cupcakes as well (Alabama played FCS team last year). There's absolutely no reason other than splitting up more money more ways, that FBS can't have a bigger playoff. It's been proven humans can do it at a lower level (FCS) and higher level (NFL).

[MNLonghorn10]

We were referring to, and mocking one of the FBS excuses for why they don't have have a real playoff system so just UN-bunch your undies. Every last excuse I've heard in that regard is lame. And yes, if FCS, and NFL players are capable of that kind of grind then so is FBS. If not I guess the NFL wouldnt draft FBS players
Why do you care? I'm talking NDSU vs fbs later on in Season and how well theyd perform

Also, you never answered a question I asked yesterday. Which G5 conference do you think would be such a physical grind?
Probably none. But all of the examples I was given was p5, so that's what I rolled with. It's why only one g5 school gets a major bowl spot this year, this year it was Houston.

[MNLonghorn10]

This was my point from yesterday. Every conference has cupcakes, I don't care what you say. A good 3-4 teams where you show up for one half and coast the rest. Not to mention OOC games can be cupcakes as well (Alabama played FCS team last year). There's absolutely no reason other than splitting up more money more ways, that FBS can't have a bigger playoff. It's been proven humans can do it at a lower level (FCS) and higher level (NFL).
You actually think the higher ups in the NCAA give a shit what your point is? Ha-ha.

It'll happen eventually.

[ZHerd]

Why do you care? I'm talking NDSU vs fbs later on in Season and how well theyd perform

Probably none. But all of the examples I was given was p5, so that's what I rolled with. It's why only one g5 school gets a major bowl spot this year, this year it was Houston.

Ummmm...let's see, you were responding out of context to my quote. I should be the one asking "Why do you care?" Also you have said NDSU couldn't handle an FBS schedule (see posts 6,8,&39) I simply took that to include G5 since that is a huge chunk of FBS

[MNLonghorn10]

Ummmm...let's see, you were responding out of context to my quote. I should be the one asking "Why do you care?" Also you have said NDSU couldn't handle an FBS schedule (see posts 6,8,&39) I simply took that to include G5 since that is a huge chunk of FBS
Out of context? How am i supposed to answer? Never once was our conversation yesterday about G5.

[ZHerd]

Out of context? How am i supposed to answer? Never once was our conversation yesterday about G5.

You quoted a post I made to someone else in regards to a silly excuse used as to why FBS can't do a playoffs. My post you responded to was not too you and had nothing to do with what we were discussing yesterday. Yes our conversation yesterday WAS about G5 because you made it about G5 in a couple of your posts (see my last post) which is why I asked questions yesterday pertaining to that topic. My original argument that set off everything yesterday is that the difference between P5 and FCS is not the number of scholarships, it's the kind of player they are able to recruit. Bama (provided Saban and crew are still coaching there etc.) with only 63 scholarships is still going to kick butt in FBS because of who they recruit. I'd like NDSU's chances now with only 63 in G5 (though 80 would be cooL). That said I think you are overrating the attrition issue even in P5, a lot of P5 fans do. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that

[MNLonghorn10]

You quoted a post I made to someone else in regards to a silly excuse used as to why FBS can't do a playoffs. My post you responded to was not too you and had nothing to do with what we were discussing yesterday. Yes our conversation yesterday WAS about G5 because you made it about G5 in a couple of your posts (see my last post) which is why I asked questions yesterday pertaining to that topic. My original argument that set off everything yesterday is that the difference between P5 and FCS is not the number of scholarships, it's the kind of player they are able to recruit. Bama (provided Saban and crew are still coaching there etc.) with only 63 scholarships is still going to kick butt in FBS because of who they recruit. I'd like NDSU's chances now with only 63 in G5 (though 80 would be cooL). That said I think you are overrating the attrition issue even in P5, a lot of P5 fans do. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that

Oh c'mon. SMU was basically given the death penalty after their schollies were taken away.


Hard to say im overrating it because we'll never know. NDSU is always fresh and full strength when they play the p5 schools.

[ndsubison1]

It has nothing to do with the amount of games but the weekly level of competition. NDSU has pretty much 2 known games a year they know they have to be mentally ready for a physical game for.... Uni and the fbs game(if there's one). Then the playoff brackets depend on what teams come to Fargo. Usually a softie or 2 and a battle.

How many mentally ready games do the top p5 teams have to be ready for? Imo, all of their conference (including perhaps the 1 team ndsu plays) plus another maybe a p5 or two ooc game? And you're telling me that fcs NDSU has the same shot in November as they do in August after playing an fbs schedule? This is erroneous. Erroneous on both counts


I know this place is criticized for homerism but this is getting out of hand

This. Anybody who thinks we'd roll right through a MAC, CUSA, or MWC schedule is mistaken.

[EC8CH]

NDSU is always fresh and full strength when they play the p5 schools.

So are they.... at least until the fourth quarter ;)

[Green1]

So are they.... at least until the fourth quarter ;)

Incorrect. FBS players are exhausted from caring for orphans, puppy adoption drives, political campaigns to end hunger and building homes for the poor. As a result, their superior conditioning is weakened and their overwhelming strength fades in the fourth quarter. In addition, the date of the football game is kept a secret until game day. This is an unfair advantage to NDSU.

It is NDSU's superbowl and not taken seriously by (insert FBS school)! That's why NDSU won!

[Tony Almeida]

Incorrect. FBS players are exhausted from caring for orphans, puppy adoption drives, political campaigns to end hunger and building homes for the poor. As a result, their superior conditioning is weakened and their overwhelming strength fades in the fourth quarter. In addition, the date of the football game is kept a secret until game day. This is an unfair advantage to NDSU.

It is NDSU's superbowl and not taken seriously by (insert FBS school)! That's why NDSU won!


Now this is the dumbest statement I have seen on here for a very long time...I think you forgot the purple for this too.

[Green1]

[/B]

Now this is the dumbest statement I have seen on here for a very long time...I think you forgot the purple for this too.


Ha! Yes, it should be in purple. Yes, it is a stupid statement. Yes, I have read statements to this effect written by FBS fans. :facepalm:

[NorthernBison]

[/B]

Now this is the dumbest statement I have seen on here for a very long time...I think you forgot the purple for this too.

Have we really gotten to the point where purple is necessary for a post like that? Really?

I laughed out loud.

[GOBISON123]

What are the chances that we lose some recruits for not being able to schedule FBS teams ?

[unbison]

Have we really gotten to the point where purple is necessary for a post like that? Really?

I laughed out loud.

Yes if not purple it is assumed to be serious.... I don't know how to turn purple on so I'm fucked

[NorthernBison]

Yes if not purple it is assumed to be serious.... I don't know how to turn purple on so I'm fucked

Stop that Lakes.

[unbison]

I will SD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NorthernBison]

I will SD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well played.

[IzzyFlexion]

This. Anybody who thinks we'd roll right through a MAC, CUSA, or MWC schedule is mistaken.


Not "roll" through.......

But which teams in those three conferences would have beaten the 2015 NDSU squad in a best of three game series?

Of the 38 total teams, I count.....maybe 4...........possibly 5.

[NorthernBison]

Not "roll" through.......

But which teams in those three conferences would have beaten the 2015 NDSU squad in a best of three game series?

Of the 38 total teams, I count.....maybe 4...........possibly 5.
I wouldn't look at competing at a high level in those conferences simply as a game by game analysis. The "grind" of a full season would be more of an issue. I don't think we'd recruit "better" athletes at that level or even that we'd have more depth with 85 scholarships. What WOULD happen is that those conferences top to bottom are stronger than the MVFC and that reduces the ability for any team to overcome key injuries. In the FBS, our G5 competition would, generally, have the same depth as us. It's, basically, what happened to us when DII went to 36 scholarships. We didn't have a depth advantage anymore. Doing a game by game paper analysis might show us able to beat anybody but if you end up with #2 and #3 depth chart players on one team playing all #1's on another that makes a big difference. "Luck" starts to enter the conversation more often.

[IzzyFlexion]

I wouldn't look at competing at a high level in those conferences simply as a game by game analysis. The "grind" of a full season would be more of an issue. I don't think we'd recruit "better" athletes at that level or even that we'd have more depth with 85 scholarships. What WOULD happen is that those conferences top to bottom are stronger than the MVFC and that reduces the ability for any team to overcome key injuries. In the FBS, our G5 competition would, generally, have the same depth as us. It's, basically, what happened to us when DII went to 36 scholarships. We didn't have a depth advantage anymore. Doing a game by game paper analysis might show us able to beat anybody but if you end up with #2 and #3 depth chart players on one team playing all #1's on another that makes a big difference. "Luck" starts to enter the conversation more often.

There are so many football posts on Bisonville that speak to the impeccable conditioning going on at NDSU. It is so obvious how well conditioned our guys are. In addition, we do seem to develop young players early enough to get a 3-deep depth chart of capability. (see Joe Haeg/Em Diggy interview).

Can anyone remember the last time that a Bison tore an ACL?......(I think it was Heagle against Colorado State)(just one example) Clearly, some non-contact and often season ending injuries such as ACL tears can happen to anyone at any time. BUT, the chances of this type of an injury plummet significantly in a highly conditioned athlete (endurance, balance, proprioception, mental focus, etc.) This too strengthens depth by not having to go to a third guy (which is also something that I don't remember happening for a long time)

So.........I'm willing to go so far as to say that there are only 4-5 that would be over .500 against a 2015 Bison team over the course of an entire season.

[runtheoption]

Clearly, some non-contact and often season ending injuries such as ACL tears can happen to anyone at any time. BUT, the chances of this type of an injury plummet significantly in a highly conditioned athlete (endurance, balance, proprioception, mental focus, etc.) I have never torn my ACL, therefore I am a highly conditioned athlete.

[NorthernBison]

There are so many football posts on Bisonville that speak to the impeccable conditioning going on at NDSU. It is so obvious how well conditioned our guys are. In addition, we do seem to develop young players early enough to get a 3-deep depth chart of capability. (see Joe Haeg/Em Diggy interview).

Can anyone remember the last time that a Bison tore an ACL?......(I think it was Heagle against Colorado State)(just one example) Clearly, some non-contact and often season ending injuries such as ACL tears can happen to anyone at any time. BUT, the chances of this type of an injury plummet significantly in a highly conditioned athlete (endurance, balance, proprioception, mental focus, etc.) This too strengthens depth by not having to go to a third guy (which is also something that I don't remember happening for a long time)

So.........I'm willing to go so far as to say that there are only 4-5 that would be over .500 against a 2015 Bison team over the course of an entire season.
Grant Olson was an ACL in 2013. PGT had a knee injury last season that I'm not sure required surgery. Beck's Achilles was last season. It seems we've had more significant and career ending injuries amongst the OL. Any DL? Not sure. Anyway, I'm not really arguing against your point as much as trying to keep some perspective on the fact that an FBS schedule would be more of a grind than we currently play with the likely addition of two P5 FBS road games in addition to a G5 conference schedule where the gap between us and our opponents is smaller. That can mean the difference between winning and losing some games. We were amazingly healthy this season and we have had the injury bug hit us in the past even with the conditioning program.

[No_Skill]

I have never torn my ACL, therefore I am a highly conditioned athlete.

...also highly conditioned athletes never get injured.

[bruinbison]

Wonder what their excuse is.....:)

Apparently Kansas State did not want a rematch with NDSU.....:)



Kansas State will host South Dakota at Bill Snyder Family Football Stadium in Manhattan in their season-opener on Sept. 1, 2018.
K-State will pay USD a $425,000 guarantee for the game, according to a copy of the contract


Kansas State still needs games in 2019, 2020 & 2021, so the optimist in me
hopes K State would consider 2019/somewhat purple in the Cats honor.....
with NDSU (2020 is the Oregon game).

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/01/kansas-state-south-dakota-2018-football-schedule/

[Bisonfanatical]

Oh c'mon. SMU was basically given the death penalty after their schollies were taken away.


Hard to say im overrating it because we'll never know. NDSU is always fresh and full strength when they play the p5 schools.

This is a true statement. ..however. .. is not the the fbs team also fresh and full of strength when they play us?

And of course the fbs team is a different team every year due to graduations and such .... however ... it's the same not true for the bison with graduations and such? ,

We can try to "reason" that the bison can't compete with the lower to mid level fbs... however .... we can not "prove" that to be true

IMHO

[MNLonghorn10]

This is a true statement. ..however. .. is not the the fbs team also fresh and full of strength when they play us?

And of course the fbs team is a different team every year due to graduations and such .... however ... it's the same not true for the bison with graduations and such? ,

We can try to "reason" that the bison can't compete with the lower to mid level fbs... however .... we can not "prove" that to be true

IMHO

ive said that p5 games towards the end of the season would be harder for ndsu to win due to lack of schollie players. it has nothing to do with the beginning. ive said all of ndsus wins that they can win, including kstate.

[IzzyFlexion]

I have never torn my ACL, therefore I am a highly conditioned athlete.

You....................You...............I'll deal with you at group next week.


Grant Olson was an ACL in 2013. PGT had a knee injury last season that I'm not sure required surgery. Beck's Achilles was last season. It seems we've had more significant and career ending injuries amongst the OL. Any DL? Not sure. Anyway, I'm not really arguing against your point as much as trying to keep some perspective on the fact that an FBS schedule would be more of a grind than we currently play with the likely addition of two P5 FBS road games in addition to a G5 conference schedule where the gap between us and our opponents is smaller. That can mean the difference between winning and losing some games. We were amazingly healthy this season and we have had the injury bug hit us in the past even with the conditioning program.

Curious. Is it your belief that the MVFC is quite far from being a lower level FBS team? (MAC or MW for example) If the answer is yes, then I'll assume that you're taking into account the entire MVFC. So, a perennial Missouri Valley champion.............they would be even closer to that level, no? NEARLY 9 YEARS AGO, a transitional Bison team goes to Central Michigan (eventual MAC champ) and dismantles them by 30. 9 YEARS AGO!

Hypothetically..........let's say that 10 years ago, a hundred astute football fans had a discussion about an FCS team having 11 FBS games on their schedule (good, poor, or bottom feeders) in the next 10 years................how many of those "experts" would have predicted that the lower level school would win 8 of those matchups?


...also highly conditioned athletes never get injured. Certainly didn't say this.

[ZHerd]

You....................You...............I'll deal with you at group next week.



Curious. Is it your belief that the MVFC is quite far from being a lower level FBS team? (MAC or MW for example) If the answer is yes, then I'll assume that you're taking into account the entire MVFC. So, a perennial Missouri Valley champion.............they would be even closer to that level, no? NEARLY 9 YEARS AGO, a transitional Bison team goes to Central Michigan (eventual MAC champ) and dismantles them by 30. 9 YEARS AGO!

Hypothetically..........let's say that 10 years ago, a hundred astute football fans had a discussion about an FCS team having 11 FBS games on their schedule (good, poor, or bottom feeders) in the next 10 years................how many of those "experts" would have predicted that the lower level school would win 8 of those matchups?

Certainly didn't say this.

Good points. Another question people could consider is how many Bison players over the past 5-6 years would have started on many P5 teams not to mention G5 teams. In hindsight I guarantee a slough of FBS programs would have loved to have a bunch of these guys on their rosters and often in their starting lineups. Considering this along with the fact we already slug through 15-16 games a year, and considering the guys now playing an NFL schedule with the best on the planet, don't tell me that a G5 schedule would be some huge difficulty. I never argued we would "roll through" or win a conference but I full believe we could, we would be competitive now, and that it would be very little grind above what we already play.

[NorthernBison]

Curious. Is it your belief that the MVFC is quite far from being a lower level FBS team? (MAC or MW for example) If the answer is yes, then I'll assume that you're taking into account the entire MVFC. So, a perennial Missouri Valley champion.............they would be even closer to that level, no? NEARLY 9 YEARS AGO, a transitional Bison team goes to Central Michigan (eventual MAC champ) and dismantles them by 30. 9 YEARS AGO!

Hypothetically..........let's say that 10 years ago, a hundred astute football fans had a discussion about an FCS team having 11 FBS games on their schedule (good, poor, or bottom feeders) in the next 10 years................how many of those "experts" would have predicted that the lower level school would win 8 of those matchups?

We're still talking about a different perspective but I'll deal with your questions. Yes, as a whole, the MVFC is NOT nearly as deep as the MAC or MWC. That leaves less margin for error over the course of a long season. Of course NDSU is at the level of the upper reaches of those conferences right now. No argument about our success against the FBS. It's unprecedented. I will point out that you can go back to 2003 and see a DII NDSU team go to Missoula and beat #3 ranked Montana (DIAA playoff team that season). That same NDSU team didn't make the DII playoffs. Reason? Partly because the season was a grind and injuries cut into depth. That was my point about playing a 12 game full on GBS schedule with at least 2 P5 FBS games on the road plus a conference schedule that would, overall, IMO be tougher than the MVFC. Easy to lose some games simply due to player availability. Of course, every teams faces that but it stands to reason that some teams are luckier than others and we simply won't always be the lucky one. Yes, we have a fine Strength and Conditioning program. Is it Light years ahead of everybody else? I'm thinking the rest of the college football world is well aware of how important it is.