#29 NDSU vs #36 Boise State 1/15/16

[larson311]

Don't know much about Boise State, but here are the matchups. Rankings are from Wrestlestat.

I split the tossup matches 2-2

I'm not sure about some weights for Boise, I just went back to their last dual match.

125 - #17 Josh Rodriguez DEC #26 Rami Haddadin 3-0 NDSU
133 - #129 Nico Colunga DEC #157 Josh Newberg 6-0 NDSU Nico won previous matchup 7-6
141 - #65 Mitch Bengston DEC #98 Jake Velarde 9-0 NDSU
149 - #10 Geordan Martinez DEC #50 Clay Ream 9-3 NDSU Martinez won last two matchups 8-4 and 20-8
157 - #71 Kyle Gliva DEC #60 Chris Castillo 12-3 NDSU (Tossup)
165 - #87 Taylor West DEC #102 Grant Nehring 12-6 NDSU (Tossup)
174 - #74 Austin Dewey DEC #168 Blake Thompson 12-9 NDSU
184 - #5 Hayden Zillmer TF #162 Keavon Buckley 17-9 NDSU
197 - #161 Zach Coffman DEC #144 Logan Paxton 17-12 NDSU (Tossup)
285 - #69 Benjamin Tyanan DEC #130 Harley DiLulo 21-12 NDSU (Tossup)

[Gladiator Dad]

When you posted this I was curious as to if the weight shifts that took place at Midlands would hold and it looks like they did.

The Lineup as posted on the Bison Website
Wt. North Dakota State (0-3, 0-0 #Big12WR)
125—#16 Josh Rodriguez (23-7, 2-1)
133—Nico Colunga (12-11, 0-1)
141—Mitch Bengtson (13-7, 2-0) OR Tommy Walton (6-6, 0-0)
149—Clay Ream (15-10, 1-2)
157—Kyle Gliva (14-7, 0-0) OR Mitchell Friedman (11-11, 0-2)
165—Grant Nehring (2-5, 1-1)
174—Blake Thompson (3-10, 0-2)
184—#7 Hayden Zillmer (21-3, 3-0)
197—Logan Paxton (5-12, 0-3)
285—Ben Tynan (13-8, 2-1)
InterMat rankings

[Big Bird]

I think NDSU wins, but I can't guarantee it. 125-141 should win along with 184 and hwt. 197 and 174 are winnable too. 149 will be tough.

Boise state is a bad team and this has to be a win. UNC will be a much tougher test IMO

I reaaaaaaaaaalllllly hope Friedman isn't in there at 157 and Gliva is the one who starts. Nothing personal, but Gliva has ben among their ten best wrestlers on the team thus far, and Friedman has been considerably below average at 141. Also, I hope McNutt starts trying to bulk up right now. 174 and 184 are wide open for the next few years and he was very thin and ineffective at 165.

[larson311]

I updated rankings and changed the lineup some based on Gladiators comments.

[Gladiator Dad]

Don't know much about Boise State, but here are the matchups. Rankings are from Wrestlestat.

I split the tossup matches 2-2

I'm not sure about some weights for Boise, I just went back to their last dual match.

125 - #17 Josh Rodriguez DEC #26 Rami Haddadin 3-0 NDSU
133 - #129 Nico Colunga DEC #157 Josh Newberg 6-0 NDSU Nico won previous matchup 7-6
141 - #65 Mitch Bengston DEC #98 Jake Velarde 9-0 NDSU
149 - #10 Geordan Martinez DEC #50 Clay Ream 9-3 NDSU Martinez won last two matchups 8-4 and 20-8
157 - #71 Kyle Gliva DEC #60 Chris Castillo 12-3 NDSU (Tossup)
165 - #87 Taylor West DEC #102 Grant Nehring 12-6 NDSU (Tossup)
174 - #74 Austin Dewey DEC #168 Blake Thompson 12-9 NDSU
184 - #5 Hayden Zillmer TF #162 Keavon Buckley 17-9 NDSU
197 - #161 Zach Coffman DEC #144 Logan Paxton 17-12 NDSU (Tossup)
285 - #69 Benjamin Tyanan DEC #130 Harley DiLulo 21-12 NDSU (Tossup)

I think you are pretty spot on with how this will go down. I would add this however, The first match Clay had with Geo was pretty ugly (that was the major), the next time they wrestled Clay closed the gap significantly and was in on a few shots but was unable to finish. If there's one thing I've learned over the years with Clay over the years, never count him out of a match.

The only other thing I see is that on the NDSU website, they list 197—Harley DiLulo (5-10, 1-2) & 285—Gaylen Edmo (7-8, 1-2) but I don't think anything changes score wise from what you have listed.

[larson311]

I think you are pretty spot on with how this will go down. I would add this however, The first match Clay had with Geo was pretty ugly (that was the major), the next time they wrestled Clay closed the gap significantly and was in on a few shots but was unable to finish. If there's one thing I've learned over the years with Clay over the years, never count him out of a match.

The only other thing I see is that on the NDSU website, they list 197—Harley DiLulo (5-10, 1-2) & 285—Gaylen Edmo (7-8, 1-2) but I don't think anything changes score wise from what you have listed.

Agreed, and if he performs anything like last year, he will come on strong the 2nd half!

[RadioBison]

This meet is streaming for free and compatible with my Chromecast. Awesome.

[RadioBison]

That looked like Paxton got warned and called for stalling all on the same move.

[Big Bird]

Terrible team loss. You can't go a whole year getting nothing out of essentially 3 weights like NDSU has done this year at 174, 197, and to a slightly lesser extent 133. This program is 100% not headed in the right direction at the moment. This team is so far away from being a top 20 team now and in the following seasons, that it's getting embarrassing.

[Mr Meaty]

Terrible team loss. You can't go a whole year getting nothing out of essentially 3 weights like NDSU has done this year at 174, 197, and to a slightly lesser extent 133. This program is 100% not headed in the right direction at the moment. This team is so far away from being a top 20 team now and in the following seasons, that it's getting embarrassing.

What are the issues? Technique , effort, quality?

[BisoninNWMN]

What are the issues? Technique , effort, quality?


I haven't watched them as much as probably some have but there are big holes in the lineup right now. Kish has them working hard but some weights are not to talented. But building a good D1 wrestling program takes time.

Bison have some very good individual wrestlers but as a dual team, they are going to struggle.

[Big Bird]

I haven't watched them as much as probably some have but there are big holes in the lineup right now. Kish has them working hard but some weights are not to talented. But building a good D1 wrestling program takes time.

Bison have some very good individual wrestlers but as a dual team, they are going to struggle.

Agreed. 133, 165, 174, and 197 have all been huge holes all year, and really 157 too. I'd add that conditioning and bottom wrestling have been issues as well. Overall though, when you go into a dual with 5 holes, you're not going to win many. On the individual side, right now Zillmer and Rodriguez are the only NCAA qualifiers. Ream, Bengston, and Tynan all have a chance to get in, but they're on the outside looking in at this point.

[BisoninNWMN]

Agreed. 133, 165, 174, and 197 have all been huge holes all year, and really 157 too. I'd add that conditioning and bottom wrestling have been issues as well. Overall though, when you go into a dual with 5 holes, you're not going to win many. On the individual side, right now Zillmer and Rodriguez are the only NCAA qualifiers. Ream, Bengston, and Tynan all have a chance to get in, but they're on the outside looking in at this point.


I'm waiting for Bengston to take the next step now.

Agree with Zillmer and Rodriguez. The Big 12 wrestling tourney will be tough to get any other qualifier this year but overall, it is great to be part of that conference.

[larson311]

Agreed. 133, 165, 174, and 197 have all been huge holes all year, and really 157 too. I'd add that conditioning and bottom wrestling have been issues as well. Overall though, when you go into a dual with 5 holes, you're not going to win many. On the individual side, right now Zillmer and Rodriguez are the only NCAA qualifiers. Ream, Bengston, and Tynan all have a chance to get in, but they're on the outside looking in at this point.

The most frustrating part is it seemed like we were heading in the right direction the last few years through last year and now watch SDSU speed past us in the results and recruiting is a bit disconcerting...

[RadioBison]

The most frustrating part is it seemed like we were heading in the right direction the last few years through last year and now watch SDSU speed past us in the results and recruiting is a bit disconcerting...

It also frustrates me how it seems that all the guys left from the big recruiting class should be at 149 this year.

[MAKBison]

So is their a coaching issue?

[Big Bird]

So is their a coaching issue?

Depends on your perspective I guess. Kish has done well here, and this year is an aberration when you look at the results year to year. His in match coaching is really good, for the most part. That being said, some have said we're going to be a top 10-15 team in a few years, and I can't see us anywhere near that. The recruiting has fallen off and the product on the mat has gotten considerably worse this year. From an outsiders perspective, I see the issues coming back to two problems: lack of an identity and a failure to adapt to the times.

Iowa is known for constant pressure and aggression; Cornell is known as hammers on top; Penn State is all about pushing the pace offensively; SDSU is developing into a team that hammers you on top with a lot of legs; Northern Colorado is a bunch of crab riders who try to win on top; NDSU is known for...I honestly don't know. We're not overly impressive on our feet; outside of Ream last year, plus Zillmer and Rodriguez, we're not good on top; and most of the team struggles to get away on bottom. I have an idea why this is, but I don't know for certain why, but something has to change going forward.

The adapting to times is most glaring when you look to our rivals to the south. It's been noted multiple times on this board how badly SDSU is beating NDSU on the web and in the public perspective. SDSU has all of their duals streamed live on FloWrestling for thousands of avid wrestling fans that would otherwise never see SDSU wrestle, outside of the NCAA tourney. SDSU coach Chris Bono is exceptionally active on social media (Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, etc), constantly promoting his program. SDSU's top assistant is still active, successful, and highly visible on the senior world wrestling circuit and trying to qualify for the Olympics. While these things don't get you any more points on the mat, they do add up and boost a program. The social media portion, is growing all the more important with the way today's youth thinks, works, lives, and competes. This would be a relatively easy fix...except nobody at NDSU seems to care about it. I would love to see NDSU partner up with Flo as well and get better exposure for the program. There has to be an interest among both sides, and I don't know if Flo is interested at this point (although I imagine they would be). Actually, I'd love to see Flo sign all Big 12 teams, since they already have deals with Ok St and SDSU.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a top 20 team here on a consistent basis, with an occasional top 10 performance. Here is a smattering of top 10 and top 20 teams at NCAAs the past 4 years. 2015: Edinboro 3rd, Lehigh 13th, 2014: Edinboro 5th, Northwestern 9th (I know they're B10, but they're a bad program), UNI 15th, Lehigh 18th, Maryland 20th (same as Northwestern), 2013: Edinboro 14th, UNI 15th, Central Michigan 18th , Boise St 19th , Citadel 20th, 2012: Lehigh 8th, Binghampton 14th, Clarion 18th, American 19th, Wyoming 19th. Edinboro is the team that stands out as the one that lately has been consistently successful and isn't a big name. How did they do it? They're in a great recruiting area (although they have a ton of competition for the local recruits) and they had an identity of being great on top. If they can do it, NDSU can do it. Are we headed towards that? Right now, I'd have to say no. Can we get there with this staff? Certainly, if the staff can adapt and make some relatively small changes.

[larson311]

I sent a couple emails about doing a quickly weekly spot like the Gophers and SDSU do as well as having more of a presence online, but I never get a reply....

[Gladiator Dad]

Big Bird brings up some good points in his earlier statement. I am not sure if NDSU needs an identity or to be known for a certain style but I understand his point and I can't really disagree that it might help in the recruiting department. Where I do think he brings up a great point is the aspect of social media. We live in a social media world now (like it or not it's not going away) where everything is out there for the world to know and see. I think wrestling in general is a little behind other sports when it comes to social media. I feel if this doesn't change overall our beloved sport may be in trouble in long haul. I receive reports from USA Wrestling from time to time which shows the athlete participation numbers from each state that has USA Wrestling, In many cases over the last few years most states have held there participation at or slightly above the previous year's numbers. Why is this important to College Recruiting, it's simple, if the youth numbers are at the same level or higher on a year to year basis, then the question must be asked where do these kids go once they hit High School? The HS Participation numbers in my opinion are declining in most states that offer HS Wrestling. Don't believe me, go to a few HS Duals and you will see most HS Teams can no longer field 14 weight classes. The amount of opens at HS duals are starting to become staggering. It's my opinion that the available "Talent Pool" is going down from the lack of HS Wrestlers, which effects the College Recruiting options for most programs these days. Don't get me wrong, I still believe that they're are plenty of talented wrestlers coming up but that pool is shrinking. The current or traditional strong wrestling schools over the years I do not believe get effected by this like up and coming programs like the NDSUs & SDSUs of the world do. I think this is a classic case of the Rich getting Richer and the rest of the programs are starting to become more willing to take take chances on kids and try to develop them at the collegiate level than in previous years. This takes away precious time for coaches to focus on other coaching needs as they try to do what was previously done at the HS Level, which was develop a strong fundamental base in which to work and build off of. HS Coaches are not putting kids through the paces like they use to in my opinion in order to keep kids out the entire year for their respective programs. I can't say that I blame them since they need to keep participation numbers as high as possible so they program doesn't get axed I think this is direct reflection of the coverage (or lack there of) from media outlets and social media outlets. These kids don't see the "Rewards" that they get from sports like Football and Basketball and I think that today's youth growing up in this social media driven world like to read about themselves and their teams. I think most HS lack in the area of promoting or sending out media information for sports other than Football and Basketball.

On a positive note it looks like NDSU is starting to do a weekly Coaches Corner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v90FBCx9E4&feature=youtu.be

[BisoninNWMN]

Interesting points made by you guys here and I agree with them all.

One thing I would like to see is the very good local guys staying here instead of going to other schools. Blees went to OK State and is buried in the depth chart right now.....he would be the starter here right now at 157. Guess who is at 157...Joe Smith, the coaches son. Maybe he'll go and stay at 165..but there are 2 RFR also waiting to step in when Derringer graduates this year. Schearer kid went to Nebraska and the Dobler is at Oregon State along with a Napoleon kid. Plus, the Gophers have cherry picked some good kids for years.

NDSU cannot get them all, but it would be nice to see some of them stay here.

Plus, retention of these guys. Seems like every year the Bison are "young". Why don't they stay?

[Gladiator Dad]

Here is an article that actually speaks to some of the issues that wrestling is facing.

http://www.missouriwrestling.com/thoughts-on-wrestling/