All about Braham

[The_Plow]

So we've heard of the amazing athletes braham has Noah Dahlman, Isaiah Dahlman, Former point gaurd for Braham Josh Vaughan but I've been hearing BIG news about their football program aswell several huge players for braham are Alex Bendickson- Fullback, Alex Thiry-Quarterback, Tyler Johnson-D-linemen and Brandon Boquist-O-linemen. I've heard that Alex Bendickson and Brandon Boquist have been looking at NDSU and other colleges for possible schools and possibly will visit has anyone else heard anything about these four? or am i just hearing another rumor about brahams "amazing" athletics?

[MplsBison]

Braham is very close to the Cambridge district and gets transfers who would rather play at the smaller school that wins often.

[CaBisonFan]

It's kind of like Mayville-Portland in basketball...where area schools lose top athletes that want to play for the Patriots. *Some of the parents even get jobs either in the school district or at the college too! *;) *

But there are communities that have gone through some amazing genetic flukes in terms of having a major concentration of athletes that come together. *Another school district that comes to mind is Russell-Tyler-Ruthton about 10 or 15 years ago...especially in basketball. *RTR had the best basketball teams in Minnesota for 5 to 10 years. *The football was pretty amazing too. *There were a few families involved with several boys with a LOT of talent and size.

There's usually a really good coach involved in something like the Braham situation. *I'm not saying they're recruiting, but the coach and the program become magnets. *I'm not familiar with Braham's athletic program, but it sounds like they really have something going in terms of big-time recruits. *It must be fun to coach and play there right now.

[sambini]

Thats what open enrollment does in Minnesota.

[MplsBison]

Thats what open enrollment does in Minnesota.


Exactly.

OE is bogus.


I think there was an idea floated that if you transfered you'd be ineligible for 1 season. I like it but not sure what happened to it.

[02Bison]

Open enrollment is intended to let parents and kids choose a better school if the academic side of things is lacking at the school/school district they live in. *However, it has been used as a recruiting tool for athletics. It is wrong much like the Private academies who recruit "athlete students" as I like to call them. Plain and Simple open enrollment is wrong if used for athletics. Play where you live.

[MplsBison]

Open enrollment is intended to let parents and kids choose a better school if the academic side of things is lacking at the school/school district they live in. However, it has been used as a recruiting tool for athletics. It is wrong much like the Private academies who recruit "athlete students" as I like to call them. Plain and Simple open enrollment is wrong if used for athletics. Play where you live.

100% agree.

Just like most things that are "well intentioned", this just gets taken advantage of.

[BisonMav]

Open enrollment is intended to let parents and kids choose a better school if the academic side of things is lacking at the school/school district they live in. *However, it has been used as a recruiting tool for athletics. It is wrong much like the Private academies who recruit "athlete students" as I like to call them. Plain and Simple open enrollment is wrong if used for athletics. Play where you live.

It's actually the student athletes in most cases that recruit other kids. Many play in summer leagues, AAU, etc with each other and become friends. If you are on these teams, usually you are a good athlete. And if you become friends, you may suggest to your friend to come and play at your school. Even the private school kids are the same way.

Another case I know of, was a student wanted to play multiple sports. The coaches at the school in his area didn't want a football player to play hockey. The kid transferred and became a good 3 sport player at his new high school. His parents were late getting the paperwork in, so they even paid the approx $5000 so their son could attend the new school. The family has since moved to the new school district, and the younger siblings also were able to play multiple sports, and get a good education.

[MplsBison]

If you move to a new district, then I have no problem.

I have a problem with someone living in one district and going to another district just for sports.

[The_Plow]

i happen to know about braham in some things and i know for a fact they werent recruiting though it may seem alex thiry, david vavra, chris vavra, ben thiry, andrea vavra they all are transfers that moved from cambridge so ive read in the paper and ive heard form "inside sources" i know the coaches at braham and know that they dont like open enrollment because then it doesnt give a chance for kids who have been working their tails off since the beginning to play because some hotshot from another school transfers....they hate it...they want to see a law that says they cant play for a certain amount of time after they transfer which i would think is a great idea! i know braham doesnt recruit because that means less playing time for the home town kids and in small towns home town people are most important to the community i think most people would agree but everyone brings up very interesting points and ideas! even tho i didnt get my question answered

[Centralmn]

Braham is very close to the Cambridge district and gets transfers who would rather play at the smaller school that wins often.

If they are getting transfers from Cmabridge it is probably for their recent success in basketball. Braham does have a good football program, but C-I is the winningest program in the state. They were down last year, but Cambridge will be back. Plus they are a AAAAA school and Braham is an A school...it is tough to compare the two.

[mn-bison]

I know this has nothing to do with football, but does anyone else have stories about how Open Enrollment for educational purposes helped a sports program. *One that comes to my mind is the Fosston girls teams a couple of years back. *1 or 2 of their starters off the state championship teams did not live in the school district and were open enrollees...

[The_Plow]

braham is AA for football and basketball

[MplsBison]

Braham is very close to the Cambridge district and gets transfers who would rather play at the smaller school that wins often.

If they are getting transfers from Cmabridge it is probably for their recent success in basketball. Braham does have a good football program, but C-I is the winningest program in the state. They were down last year, but Cambridge will be back. Plus they are a AAAAA school and Braham is an A school...it is tough to compare the two.


Ever since CI got moved to AAAAA from AAAA they are not even close to the dominate team that they were.

So don't try and say that CI is the winningest team in the state (if that's true) as if it means anything in the present.

[MplsBison]

they want to see a law that says they cant play for a certain amount of time after they transfer which i would think is a great idea!

Agree 100%.


If you live in one district and transfer to another, you're ineligble for one season.

[Centralmn]

Braham is very close to the Cambridge district and gets transfers who would rather play at the smaller school that wins often.

If they are getting transfers from Cmabridge it is probably for their recent success in basketball. *Braham does have a good football program, but C-I is the winningest program in the state. *They were down last year, but Cambridge will be back. *Plus they are a AAAAA school and Braham is an A school...it is tough to compare the two.


Ever since CI got moved to AAAAA from AAAA they are not even close to the dominate team that they were.

So don't try and say that CI is the winningest team in the state (if that's true) as if it means anything in the present.

C-I is the winningest football program in the state...ever heard of George Larson? C-I has a tougher road now that they are a small 5A school, and the team can't be awesome every year. Braham is not even on the radar for football.

[The_Plow]

thanks mplsbison i agree about the cambridge issue now if someone wanted to talk the most winningest in the state talk about the braham basketball program they currently are for football...who knows pierz would have been probably if they wouldnt have choked i supposed id have to go with wayzata they are an amazing team!

[The_Plow]

Braham is very close to the Cambridge district and gets transfers who would rather play at the smaller school that wins often.

If they are getting transfers from Cmabridge it is probably for their recent success in basketball. *Braham does have a good football program, but C-I is the winningest program in the state. *They were down last year, but Cambridge will be back. *Plus they are a AAAAA school and Braham is an A school...it is tough to compare the two.


Ever since CI got moved to AAAAA from AAAA they are not even close to the dominate team that they were.

So don't try and say that CI is the winningest team in the state (if that's true) as if it means anything in the present.

C-I is the winningest football program in the state...ever heard of George Larson? *C-I has a tougher road now that they are a small 5A school, and the team can't be awesome every year. *Braham is not even on the radar for football.



actually centralmn braham was ranked in the top ten this year for football and up until the pierz game was ranked 2nb in AA

[MplsBison]

C-I is the winningest football program in the state...ever heard of George Larson?

You must've missed the part where I said they dominated AAAA.

They won like a million state titles in AAAA.

When they got moved to AAAAA, they haven't won a state title since.

Not even sure if they've won their section (which is the easiest AAAAA section in the state with the Saint Clouds, Brainerd, and Buffalo though Elk River and Moorhead are good).

[Centralmn]

C-I is the winningest football program in the state...ever heard of George Larson?

You must've missed the part where I said they dominated AAAA.

They won like a million state titles in AAAA.

When they got moved to AAAAA, they haven't won a state title since.

Not even sure if they've won their section (which is the easiest AAAAA section in the state with the Saint Clouds, Brainerd, and Buffalo though Elk River and Moorhead are good).

And they lost to Becker...point well taken. I was looking at C-I's history and tradition, and you were talking about the more recent C-I teams. Sometimes I put too much stock in tradition.

[lakesbison]

I think Breckenridge beat BRAHAM in playoffs 2 years ago... but then again Breckenridge used to be in top ten of all time wins until Terry HORAN left for Concordia..

Braham is a basketball powerhouse.. football.... i'd say middle to top of the row...

peace

[The_Plow]

no braham never played breckenridge two years ago braham lost in state to B.O.L.D. now three years ago they played breck and lost breck is a private school from the twin cities alot of pro athletes kids go there. and this year they lost to pierz in the section semi-final which they were dominated by the number one ranked team at the time but braham was also ranked second it seems as though they just gave up after the first half of play in which they were losing by a considerable number they went on to lose 48-8

[MplsBison]

And it wouldn't suprise me a damn bit if Pierz had kids from Little Falls.

[SiouxHockeyBisonFo]

Quote from The Plow on 05/22/06 at 04:19:57:
they want to see a law that says they cant play for a certain amount of time after they transfer which i would think is a great idea!

Agree 100%.


If you live in one district and transfer to another, you're ineligble for one season.



What about kids that are transfering for acedemic or personal reasons? My guess would be that alot of these kids enjoy playing sports as well. Seems a bit unfair to make these kids sit out a season. I can see maybe that kids should not be able to transfer for athletic reasons, but how do you combat this issue without penalizing kids that are transfering for a legitmate reasons.

How about other extra curricular activities (band, choir, debate, 4-H, visual arts and drama), is it ok for students to transfer to another district for these activities? Students should be able to transfer to another school district to pursue a better program, whether it is sports, the arts or acedemics.

Why should an athelete be forced to stay in a progam that doesn't care about athletics or continue to play for a coach that doesn't care about their team? College atheletes have the opportunity to transfer, why should high school students be any different.

[Centralmn]

And it wouldn't suprise me a damn bit if Pierz had kids from Little Falls.

The star rusher for Pierz did open enroll from the Little Falls district. I am looking for the name.

[lakesbison]

He is a GREAT running back at St Johns now..

will be a sophomore.. and be #1 back. I believe..

yes he lived east of little falls 5 miles... pierz is 12 miles west on hwy 27... soo. little falls has always sucked. *since I left in early 90's!!*

[Centralmn]

Ahh...yes that was his name.

[MplsBison]

What about kids that are transfering for acedemic

They'll get to go to school, obviously.


or personal reasons?

Nope, won't buy it.


Any kid can make up whatever story they want and call it "personal reasons".



My guess would be that alot of these kids enjoy playing sports as well.

Then play for the district where you pay taxes!


I can see maybe that kids should not be able to transfer for athletic reasons, but how do you combat this issue without penalizing kids that are transfering for a legitmate reasons.

Simple.

The only legitimate reason to transfer is for better academic oppertunity (which was the sole intent of the original open enrollment philosophy).


Any other reason is abuse of the system and should not be tolerated.



How about other extra curricular activities (band, choir, debate, 4-H, visual arts and drama), is it ok for students to transfer to another district for these activities?

Put it this way, if it's an activity whose competition is governed by the MSHSL (or whatever state association is in your state), you're ineligible for a year.



Students should be able to transfer to another school district to pursue a better program, whether it is sports, the arts or acedemics.


Nope.

Students are only guaranteed the right to go to school for free. Since when do my tax dollars guarantee the right for everyone and their brother to open enroll to my district just because our football team is better?

Why should that person get to take away the chance to compete from a kid who has been in my district for his entire life, whose parents have paid taxes to my district for his entire life, and who has been in our program since 7th grade?



Why should an athelete be forced to stay in a progam that doesn't care about athletics or continue to play for a coach that doesn't care about their team?

If it really means that much to you, sit out for a year and join the team afterward.


College atheletes have the opportunity to transfer, why should high school students be any different.

Only if you're transferring down in division. If you transfer to the same division or higher, you have to sit out for a year.

[BisonMav]

I personally like open enrollment. You should be able to go to any high school you want, for any reason, without penalty. I know some kids that play football at one school and transfer back and play basketball at a different school. Don't need any busy-bodies telling people what they can or can't do. It's a free country :)

[MplsBison]

I personally like open enrollment. You should be able to go to any high school you want, for any reason, without penalty. I know some kids that play football at one school and transfer back and play basketball at a different school. Don't need any busy-bodies telling people what they can or can't do.

Not with my tax dollars you ain't!

[BisonMav]

I personally like open enrollment. *You should be able to go to any high school you want, for any reason, without penalty. *I know some kids that play football at one school and transfer back and play basketball at a different school. *Don't need any busy-bodies telling people what they can or can't do. *

Not with my tax dollars you ain't!

How do you feel about only North Dakota Kids being able to play for the Bison. If you are in Minnesota, your tax dollar is only paying for Minnesota colleges. Even take it another step, only Minnesota kids should be allowed to play for the Gophers hockey team. Grant and Danny should have been Sioux hockey players. ;)

[Marius]

With regard to recruiting in Braham. I graduated Braham in 1997, and although I haven't lived there since high school I never saw any active recruiting. In fact their standout players, the Dahlman's and Josh Vaughan, are children of long time Braham teachers. Now I don't know all the kids playing for Braham now, but their football program was never good enough to draw kids out of C-I, even in their best years.

[MplsBison]

How do you feel about only North Dakota Kids being able to play for the Bison. *If you are in Minnesota, your tax dollar is only paying for Minnesota colleges.

Incorrect analogy. Apples and oranges.


College kids pay their own tuition. High school kids do not.

In the case of MN kids playing at NDSU, the state of MN sends money to NDSU for each student. It's called reciprocity.

[BisonMav]

Incorrect analogy. Apples and oranges.


College kids pay their own tuition. High school kids do not.

In the case of MN kids playing at NDSU, the state of MN sends money to NDSU for each student. It's called reciprocity.

::) ::) ::)

[02Bison]

Incorrect analogy. Apples and oranges.


College kids pay their own tuition. High school kids do not.

In the case of MN kids playing at NDSU, the state of MN sends money to NDSU for each student. It's called reciprocity.

::) ::) ::)


LOL! * ::) ::) ::)

You better look up tuition reciprociity mplsbison! MN doesn't send money for students to attend NDSU. NDSU offers those students coming from Minnesota rates very close to what those coming from North Dakota pay and Minnesota public colleges offer the same to North Dakota kids choosing to go to public colleges in Minnesota. *This is all because the two states agreed to a reciprocity agreement. *Out of staters without reciprocity pay much more. *Look at the following and you will see:

ND Resident tuition: $198.92/credit
MN Resident (reciprocity): $216.98/credit
Other non-resident (i.e. no reciprocity): $531.11/credit

http://www.ndsu.edu/prospective_students/cost/index.shtml

Or how about you check out this one:


Students generally pay the higher of the two states tuition rates. Thus, North Dakota students attending Minnesota campuses pay the Minnesota rate while Minnesota students attending North Dakota campuses also pay the Minnesota rate, which is generally higher than the North Dakota rate.


http://www.ndus.edu/students/other-resource/details.asp?id=115

[MplsBison]

Interesting.

You both imply that I'm wrong somehow yet never make a counter argument.


Rather you simply tells about the net effect of reciprocity, something we all understand already.



I may in fact be incorrect about the state's sending money with each student (though that would make sense in order to make up the obvious loss in money that North Dakota is going to see as more ND students will go to MN than MN students come to ND).


But who knows?

You never actually confirmed or denied how the mechanics of reciprocity work. You simply told us that tuition gets lowered for those students.

Amazing.

[MplsBison]

::) ::) ::)


At the least, the argument that college kids pay their own tuition is valid.


But I suppose this bought you some time to think up a clever counter argument, right?

Because you obviously had nothing left.

[02Bison]

Interesting.

You both imply that I'm wrong somehow yet never make a counter argument.


Rather you simply tells about the net effect of reciprocity, something we all understand already.



I may in fact be incorrect about the state's sending money with each student (though that would make sense in order to make up the obvious loss in money that North Dakota is going to see as more ND students will go to MN than MN students come to ND).


But who knows?

You never actually confirmed or denied how the mechanics of reciprocity work. You simply told us that tuition gets lowered for those students.

Amazing.




Check the last link in my post if you want the mechanics!

[MplsBison]

Check the last link in my post if you want the mechanics!


The link merely restates what you've already told us and what every second grader already knows: the net effect of reciprocity is that students pay in state or nearly in state tuition without being in state.


The link says nothing about why this can happen. Money doesn't grow on trees. Nothing is free.

NDSU, for example, must make up the money from MN students somewhere. Either the state of ND is picking up the tab wholly for the MN kids or the state of MN helps out.

There is some reason for why this is allowed to happen. And it comes down to money in some shape or form.

[02Bison]

You both imply that I'm wrong somehow yet never make a counter argument.

Why do we need to make a counter-argument? We are simply stating the facts which you are blatantly, naively ignorant of. *


Rather you simply tells about the net effect of reciprocity, something we all understand already.

LOL! * ::) Obviously you didn't. *



I may in fact be incorrect about the state's sending money with each student (though that would make sense in order to make up the obvious loss in money that North Dakota is going to see as more ND students will go to MN than MN students come to ND).

You are in fact incorrect..but I thought you said you understood it already?!?!?! *::)



You never actually confirmed or denied how the mechanics of reciprocity work. You simply told us that tuition gets lowered for those students.

Sometimes you should quit digging before you get yourself into too big of a hole. *

This is strangely similar to *the days of 1234....

[02Bison]

The link merely restates what you've already told us and what every second grader already knows: the net effect of reciprocity is that students pay in state or nearly in state tuition without being in state.

It can happen because the states agreed to it in 1975 with the purpose of improving the post-secondary options to kids living in both states.


The purposes of the Program are to continue to improve post-secondary education opportunities for North Dakota and Minnesota residents and to achieve improved effectiveness and economy in meeting the post-secondary education needs of those residents through cooperative and efforts by the two neighboring states.

http://www.ndus.edu/students/other-resource/details.asp?id=115

[MplsBison]

That's nice for a press release.


There is obviously a reason that they agreed to it in 1975. And it has to do with money changing hands. That much I can guarantee.

[02Bison]

That's nice for a press release.


There is obviously a reason that they agreed to it in 1975. And it has to do with money changing hands. That much I can guarantee.

Yeah, and I quoted the reason they agreed to it. They wanted to expand educational opportunities for students in both states by giving them more choices at a more affordable price tag. Why do you think there is money changing hands? Because X student from Minnesota goes to college in North Dakota doesn't mean Minnesota sends Y amount of dollars to North Dakota. North Dakota simply offers X student Minnesota in-state tuition rates for attending college in North Dakota. They are able to do this because of geography and similar tuition rates. The difference between Minnesota in-state and North Dakota in-state tuition rates is immaterial.

[MplsBison]

But so what?

NDSU could charge MN students out of state tuition and make quite a bit more money.


A prime example of this is Iowa State. They don't have reciprocity with any state. You're either paying instate tuition as an Iowa resident or you're paing outstate tuition as a non Iowa resident.


Thus, in order for that situation to have not happened at NDSU, there had to be a philosophical reason.

And it's not "think of the children".

[roadwarrior]

North Dakota does not write a check to the state of Minnesota for those ND residents that go to school in Minnesota. Minnesota does not write a check to the state of North Dakota for those MN residents that go to school in North Dakota.

I am not sure which way has the higher number, but I am guessing that more MN students go to school in ND than the other way around.

The real purpose of it IS to offer the students in both states more opportunities for a reasonable cost higher education.

Mpls, I urge you to contact your state senator or representative if you think there is any money changing hands other than the student's tuition. I am sure they can provide you with an informed answer.

[MplsBison]

Then why isn't there a deal with Iowa?

That would make a lot more sense with Ames being only a couple of hours south on I35.

[Gamehunter]

Interesting.

I may in fact be incorrect about the state's sending money with each student (though that would make sense in order to make up the obvious loss in money that North Dakota is going to see as more ND students will go to MN than MN students come to ND).




Actually, NDSU is the #1 out of state school of choice for MN residents. UND also has a large number of MN students as well. While I am sure plenty of North Dakota residents go to school @ MN schools, I would imagine there is WAY more MN residents @ North Dakota schools than vice versa based on the shear population numbers.

[roadwarrior]

Then why isn't there a deal with Iowa?

That would make a lot more sense with Ames being only a couple of hours south on I35.

Maybe Iowa doesnt want to.

I think MN has reciprocity with WI and SD also.

[MplsBison]

And why is it that they don't want to?


Perhaps the state of MN won't write them a big enough check for each reciprocity student?

[02Bison]

The Minnesota/Wisconsion tuition recprocity debate: http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/1028495


“Why are we writing a check for $10.5 million, on top of sending our children elsewhere?” Opatz said. In addition, Opatz, like other Minnesotans, was concerned about the deal pulling its college-educated demographic out of the state.
“The reciprocity agreement is complicated, based on calculations of credits taken, instructional costs, tuition rates, and more. The deal is designed to cover the full cost of the education, an amount tuition alone in either state doesn’t cover,” the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported. The report added that each state cuts a check to the other to make up the gap created by tuition differences, but the money goes into the state’s general fund, not the university systems. This proves to be a key point of controversy.
While the economic merits of the program are debatable the popularity of the program is not. In 2004, 11,409 Wisconsin residents attended schools in Minnesota, while 13,139 Minnesotans attended Wisconsin institutions, including the 2,874 of them who attended UW-Madison.

[02Bison]

"Rethinking Student Exchange and Migration"

http://www.mhec.org/mhecwww/pdfs/studentexchangeandmigration041129_000.pdf

[MplsBison]

The Minnesota/Wisconsion tuition recprocity debate: http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/1028495


“Why are we writing a check for $10.5 million, on top of sending our children elsewhere?” Opatz said. In addition, Opatz, like other Minnesotans, was concerned about the deal pulling its college-educated demographic out of the state.
“The reciprocity agreement is complicated, based on calculations of credits taken, instructional costs, tuition rates, and more. The deal is designed to cover the full cost of the education, an amount tuition alone in either state doesn’t cover,” the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported. The report added that each state cuts a check to the other to make up the gap created by tuition differences, but the money goes into the state’s general fund, not the university systems. This proves to be a key point of controversy.
While the economic merits of the program are debatable the popularity of the program is not. In 2004, 11,409 Wisconsin residents attended schools in Minnesota, while 13,139 Minnesotans attended Wisconsin institutions, including the 2,874 of them who attended UW-Madison.


AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!



I KNEW each state did that. It just wouldn't make sense otherwise.

This also makes sense as to why Iowa doesn't give MN students reciprocity. They haven't worked out a deal about how big the check each state sends to each other should be.