Was NDSU ranked too high/low in the AGS Poll

[ralph]

Let it be known...

Any Given Saturday Poll Preseason Top 25
(First place votes in parenthesis)
1. Appalachian State (45)
2. New Hampshire (31)
3. Northern Iowa (7)
4. Montana (2)
5. Furman (2)
6. Cal Poly
7. Youngstown State
8. James Madison (2)
9. Illinois State
10. Delaware
11. McNeese State
12. North Dakota State (1)
13. Georgia Southern
14. Massachusetts
15. Eastern Illinois
16. Hampton
17. Southern Illinois
18. Coastal Carolina
19. Montana State
20. UC Davis
21. Texas State
22. Nicholls State
23. Eastern Washington
24. Eastern Kentucky
25. Richmond

Others receiving votes (minimum of 5 votes): Lafayette (56), Western Kentucky (47), Colgate (46), Lehigh (45), Grambling (44), Idaho State (43), South Carolina State (43), Harvard (29), Portland State (24), Northwestern State (22), William & Mary (21), Hofstra (17), Jacksonville State (17), Weber State (17), Western Carolina (14), Maine (10), Sam Houston State (10), Brown (9), Southern University (9), South Dakota State (8), Wofford (7), Penn (6), Missouri State (5), Towson (5), Villanova (5)

BIGGEST RISING TEAM FROM 2005: Illinois State
BIGGEST FALLING TEAM FROM 2005: Texas State

[NDSUstudent]

My Poll
1. Appalachian St
2. Northern Iowa
3. New Hampshire
4. Montana
5. Cal Poly
6. Furman
7. James Madison
8. Illinois St
9. Youngstown St
10. McNeese St
11. Delaware
12. North Dakota St
13. Georgia Southern
14. UC Davis
15. Coastal Carolina
16. South Carolina St
17. Idaho St
18. Nicholls St
19. Colgate
20. Eastern Illinois
21. Massachusetts
22. Harvard
23. Texas St
24. Southern Univ
25. Montana St
R. Illinois St
F. Texas St

How about just right ;)

[MplsBison]

What did Illinois State do so good last year other than murder SIU?

[Swaghook]

How about just right ;)



Yes I agree. How could one have a poll without that as an option? As is posters must choose between looking to be too arrogant or unconfident in their team.

[BisonMav]

I had NDSU at #20 to start the season.

[tony]

Yeah, I was thinking too high too - I'd start NDSU at 20 and then move them up. Geez, there are three teams ranked lower that beat NDSU last year. Plenty of time to move NDSU up later.

[Bison2248]

Yeah 12 seems like a good spot for the Bison.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think we are about right where we ought to be. I don't think we deserved a #1 vote........

[Gamehunter]

What did Illinois State do so good last year other than murder SIU?

Not that they did so good last year, but this year they are returning almost their whole team. They will be a tough team to stop, and will easily contend for any of the top 3 spots of the Gateway. SIU on the other hand, is ranked WAY to high, IMO.


BTW, I would put the Bison maybe only a few spots lower than what they are in the AGS poll. I think this year's team will be a playoff type caliber team, but with no hopes of reaching the playoffs. But, with this tough schedule, it is hard to say what kind of a record they will turn in.

[rabidrabbit]

I think we are about right where we ought to be. *I don't think we deserved a #1 vote........

Wyo - IF Bisons' only loses were to MN, and UCD @ Davis, combined with AppSt/FURMAN/GSU going round-robin and same in Gateway (UNI/YSU/IlSU) and in the A10. Losses by MT to Poly and in conference, why is NDSU not #1?

Stating the semi obvious, if Poly/NDSU are 2 of 5 schools with a 9-2 record, NDSU beat Poly, again why not #1?

Either week 3 or 4 is the 1st time that I suspect you'll drop the #1 rating

[broke_back_mnt]

You know, I used to read these discussions in DII as well. *Always the question of NDSU, how good are they. *Im glad people are wondering now. *

Generally I would say the BISON are faster and bigger. *We have some great athletes and on average games at the Fabulous Fargo Dome are much better than in days past. *In the old days, even under Babich, we were about half way there or so in comparison to where we are now. *Its good to see faith in the program. *Its bad, Its Nation Wide! * 8-) *

Its tough to say how good the BISON are now. *Obviously they are better than some of our old DII teams, but some of them had almost as many scholarships and did win national championships. *The big thing is the competition. *Last yrs BISON team would have been DII champmions but they couldnt stand up to the test of some of DI-AAs best. *

Overall, how good a team is depends on how they match up to the competition. *With all the question marks, especially at QB, I just cant be sure about this years BISON squad. I think they are bubbling under.

[semobison]

Id like to see us a little lower , but in the top 20. Its nice to move up the polls as the season rolls on. With our brutal schedule 8-3 could get us in the top 10! Anyway, the poll that matters will be at the end of the year.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think we are about right where we ought to be. I don't think we deserved a #1 vote........

Wyo - IF Bisons' only loses were to MN, and UCD @ Davis, combined with AppSt/FURMAN/GSU going round-robin and same in Gateway (UNI/YSU/IlSU) and in the A10. Losses by MT to Poly and in conference, why is NDSU not #1?

Stating the semi obvious, if Poly/NDSU are 2 of 5 schools with a 9-2 record, NDSU beat Poly, again why not #1?

Either week 3 or 4 is the 1st time that I suspect you'll drop the #1 rating


In theory.....perhaps, but there are a lot of "what ifs?" Man.....I think I may have to give up my Green and Gold sweatshirt for you to wear..... ;)

[rabidrabbit]

After them Rabbits! then yes

Hope we knock you off in the FargoDome, but that's unlikely after playing 6 other top 25 teams.

Want you to knock off Poly tho. Bunnies get to go to SLO for THEIR homecoming. Tough Game to win.

If I have my thoughts down, and the AGS gods fall right, Poly will come in 7-1, Bison 6-2 into game at Fargo.

Very dependent on other action/conferences, but Bison have shot IMHO.

Whether you agree with me or not, look forward to this GREAT BB, and all comments shared.

[Paulie]

This poll is similar to votes for prom queen, it's all a popularity contest. You gain further insight into the mentality of the voters when some homer votes NDSU number 1. I'm not saying they aren't good or don't deserve to be ranked but seeing a first place vote just further emphasizes the fact that this is just a poll of fans kicking in votes for their favorite team.

[broke_back_mnt]

Its a pre season poll and reflects everyones enthusiasm for their teams. Some voters think the BISON are a team thats getting better.

[Bisonguy]

This poll is similar to votes for prom queen, it's all a popularity contest. *You gain further insight into the mentality of the voters when some homer votes NDSU number 1. *I'm not saying they aren't good or don't deserve to be ranked but seeing a first place vote just further emphasizes the fact that this is just a poll of fans kicking in votes for their favorite team. *

The #1 vote for NDSU was not from a Bison fan.

[Scooter]

Its a pre season poll and reflects everyones enthusiasm for their teams. *Some voters think the BISON are a team thats getting better.

Some voters would be correct in this line of thinking. *I put NDSU at 16. *UNI is also a little high, they lost alot on defense. and their WR's and RB are gone.

[BisonMav]

This poll is similar to votes for prom queen, it's all a popularity contest. *You gain further insight into the mentality of the voters when some homer votes NDSU number 1. *I'm not saying they aren't good or don't deserve to be ranked but seeing a first place vote just further emphasizes the fact that this is just a poll of fans kicking in votes for their favorite team. *

I disagree, this is a recognized poll and very unbiased IMO. * From what I can see, there is a committee that regulates the following rules. *I know Ralph has no affiliation with any specific team. *The AGS poll also included more playoff teams in it's pre-season poll last year than any other poll. *I believe the AGS voters know more about I-AA football than most people. *

By voting in this Poll you agree to the following rules:
1. Must be an AGS approved member*.
2. Must register for the regular season poll by August 15, 2006.
3. Must agree to vote objectively.
4. Must vote for all top twenty-five places each week.
5. Must not miss voting more than two week's the entire regular season.
6. Must agree to abide by the rules and administrator decisions.
7. Voting must be done each week between Saturdays after all the week's games are done and Mondays at Noon (CST).
8. Administrators will monitor for rules abuse. Ballots and/or voting may be denied.
*Approved AGS members:
-- Posted 100 or more times by 5/1/2006 on the AGS boards.

[Scooter]

This poll is similar to votes for prom queen, it's all a popularity contest. *You gain further insight into the mentality of the voters when some homer votes NDSU number 1. *I'm not saying they aren't good or don't deserve to be ranked but seeing a first place vote just further emphasizes the fact that this is just a poll of fans kicking in votes for their favorite team. *

I disagree, this is a recognized poll and very unbiased IMO. * From what I can see, there is a committee that regulates the following rules. *I know Ralph has no affiliation with any specific team. *The AGS poll also included more playoff teams in it's pre-season poll last year than any other poll. *I believe the AGS voters know more about I-AA football than most people. *

By voting in this Poll you agree to the following rules:
1. Must be an AGS approved member*.
2. Must register for the regular season poll by August 15, 2006.
3. Must agree to vote objectively.
4. Must vote for all top twenty-five places each week.
5. Must not miss voting more than two week's the entire regular season.
6. Must agree to abide by the rules and administrator decisions.
7. Voting must be done each week between Saturdays after all the week's games are done and Mondays at Noon (CST).
8. Administrators will monitor for rules abuse. Ballots and/or voting may be denied.
*Approved AGS members:
-- Posted 100 or more times by 5/1/2006 on the AGS boards.

You make a good point. *At least these rules will stop all of the Fart-Monkeys from banning together and stuffing the ballot box. *But, objectivity of every member... I doubt it.

(Fart-Monkeys is a "third grader" term that I can't get into.... because there is Beer involved.)

[Bisonguy]

This poll is similar to votes for prom queen, it's all a popularity contest. *You gain further insight into the mentality of the voters when some homer votes NDSU number 1. *I'm not saying they aren't good or don't deserve to be ranked but seeing a first place vote just further emphasizes the fact that this is just a poll of fans kicking in votes for their favorite team. *

I disagree, this is a recognized poll and very unbiased IMO. * From what I can see, there is a committee that regulates the following rules. *I know Ralph has no affiliation with any specific team. *The AGS poll also included more playoff teams in it's pre-season poll last year than any other poll. *I believe the AGS voters know more about I-AA football than most people. *

By voting in this Poll you agree to the following rules:
1. Must be an AGS approved member*.
2. Must register for the regular season poll by August 15, 2006.
3. Must agree to vote objectively.
4. Must vote for all top twenty-five places each week.
5. Must not miss voting more than two week's the entire regular season.
6. Must agree to abide by the rules and administrator decisions.
7. Voting must be done each week between Saturdays after all the week's games are done and Mondays at Noon (CST).
8. Administrators will monitor for rules abuse. Ballots and/or voting may be denied.
*Approved AGS members:
-- Posted 100 or more times by 5/1/2006 on the AGS boards.

I believe there's a lot more research and effort put into the AGS ballots than those of either the AP or coaches polls. Most of the voters take it very seriously, something that cannot be said for the voters in the other polls.

[NanoBison]

I'm not quite sure I follow you're guy's thinking. This is a poll to indicate where each team is expected to finish right? Then what's the point of starting a team out lower and then as the season goes on, moving them up? Why not just flat out say NDSU, #12. What's wrong with that? We're a good team, and getting better. Plus our upcoming season is probably tougher than many of those on the poll. So if we do win a majority of them, (which I think we will, *crossing fingers*), we no doubt will be up there near #12 at the end of the season. That is, unless Minneasota kills each of our athletes and takes them out for the season.

[Bisonguy]

The poll should be the ranking of the teams at this very moment using all information available, not a prediction of where they will finish, IMO.

Using that criteria, NDSU is not the #12 team in the nation.

[NanoBison]

Ok, so if it is supposed to be a rolling poll, I'd put NDSU in the top 20.

[rabidrabbit]

Gil says - I disagree, this is a recognized poll and very unbiased IMO. From what I can see, there is a committee that regulates the following rules. I know Ralph has no affiliation with any specific team. The AGS poll also included more playoff teams in it's pre-season poll last year than any other poll. I believe the AGS voters know more about I-AA football than most people.

I agree Gil, the voters in the polls are the passionately knowledgeable people around the country who try to make sense of who lost how many, where they will fit in their conferences, SOS of all 120 programs in 1-AA. Each one of the voters brings in a background, and an area of most knowledge. Some are very knowledgeable about the east (A10, Patriot, SoCon), some know the HBC conferences, and each tries to make the best judgements about the relative strengths of the football teams.

From my perspective tho, I disagree that it's a rolling poll per se. It's, to me, a prediction of where each school will be at the end of football season, before play-off selections. In developing my results, I looked at most programs and schedules. I've calculated expected losses and wins into this projection. For example Montana plays Iowa in week 1 (or 2), and I expect them to lose. Their position, in my selection won't change after that loss. However, if SDSU knocks Montana off, then, yes, MT tumbles, because that not anticipated. There are some games that will make differences and change my order around, but generally, what I picked, was what I anticipate the final poll to look like.

With that said, it may be a lot of weeks before NDSU loses that #1 vote. And if you go 9-2, and lot's of other schools are no better, then my pre-season holds.

Best of luck (except against Bunnies) :P

[Bisonguy]

From my perspective tho, I disagree that it's a rolling poll per se. *It's, to me, a prediction of where each school will be at the end of football season, before play-off selections. *In developing my results, I looked at most programs and schedules. *I've calculated expected losses and wins into this projection. *For example Montana plays Iowa in week 1 (or 2), and I expect them to lose. *Their position, in my selection won't change after that loss. *However, if SDSU knocks Montana off, then, yes, MT tumbles, because that not anticipated. *There are some games that will make differences and change my order around, but generally, what I picked, was what I anticipate the final poll to look like. *

With that said, it may be a lot of weeks before NDSU loses that #1 vote. *And if you go 9-2, and lot's of other schools are no better, then my pre-season holds.

Best of luck (except against Bunnies) *:P


I stand corrected (somewhat).

This is from Ralph Wallace (aka the be-all, end-all authority on I-AA football, and of course, AGS and I-AA.org creator) as I asked him whether it's a 'how they would finish the year' or 'how they are right now' poll:


Preseason was for how they would finish. During the season it is how they are right then.

[lucchesicourt]

I don't really understand why there are preseason polls. Everything is pretty much based on last years team and who is returniong. Football is a team sport where you can lose one player, and that can make a huge impact on the performance of others. For instance, Dion sanders was pretty much left alone to cover one on one, leaving the safety to move and cover the back side receivers. With Sanders gone, the safety gains more area to cover and is likely to make more mistakes. A great player can make things easier for others to do their jobs. There is really no way to figure how losses are going to affect this years teams with any reliability. The best time to begin rankings is after game #1. But, usually 3-4 games in you get a better idea.

[BisonMav]

I don't really understand why there are preseason polls. *

Something fun to do in the off-season that's related to I-AA football.

[Gamehunter]

I don't really understand why there are preseason polls. Everything is pretty much based on last years team and who is returniong. Football is a team sport where you can lose one player, and that can make a huge impact on the performance of others. For instance, Dion sanders was pretty much left alone to cover one on one, leaving the safety to move and cover the back side receivers. With Sanders gone, the safety gains more area to cover and is likely to make more mistakes. A great player can make things easier for others to do their jobs. There is really no way to figure how losses are going to affect this years teams with any reliability. The best time to begin rankings is after game #1. But, usually 3-4 games in you get a better idea.

I disagree. to a certain extent I understand what you are saying on an individual basis, but to say there is no way of predicting how a team could do in the fall is nonsense. Predicting a top 25 team doesn't require a whole lot of knowledge, narrowing it down to a top 10 or top 5 can be a little bit more hit and miss on the other hand. The AGS poll has correctly predicted most playoff teams since the AGS poll started in 2004. Obviously there is more to it than just a random guess, if there wasn't we would have teams like Savannah St. and Sac. St. in the poll.

[Shakermaker]

This poll is similar to votes for prom queen, it's all a popularity contest. *You gain further insight into the mentality of the voters when some homer votes NDSU number 1. *I'm not saying they aren't good or don't deserve to be ranked but seeing a first place vote just further emphasizes the fact that this is just a poll of fans kicking in votes for their favorite team. *

I'll agree with you somewhat. I'm a big ol' GRIZ fan, but after lasts years performance, we should have been in your spot... at best number. Seriously, I don't think the Griz at this point and time are better than a number 12 seed. There are way toooooooooooooooo many ifs and they have to answer them first. They got a top five seed (#4) off of name alone.

[Scooter]

This poll is similar to votes for prom queen, it's all a popularity contest. *You gain further insight into the mentality of the voters when some homer votes NDSU number 1. *I'm not saying they aren't good or don't deserve to be ranked but seeing a first place vote just further emphasizes the fact that this is just a poll of fans kicking in votes for their favorite team. *

I'll agree with you somewhat. *I'm a big ol' GRIZ fan, but after lasts years performance, we should have been in your spot... at best number. *Seriously, I don't think the Griz at this point and time are better than a number 12 seed. *There are way toooooooooooooooo many ifs and they have to answer them first. *They got a top five seed (#4) off of name alone. *


Shakermaker, I think it was a more than name alone. The reason why the Grizzlies are where they are is because they have continually, year after year, proven that they have the ability to reload after losing good players. There never seams to be much of a drop off with you guys.

[Shakermaker]

This poll is similar to votes for prom queen, it's all a popularity contest. *You gain further insight into the mentality of the voters when some homer votes NDSU number 1. *I'm not saying they aren't good or don't deserve to be ranked but seeing a first place vote just further emphasizes the fact that this is just a poll of fans kicking in votes for their favorite team. *

I'll agree with you somewhat. *I'm a big ol' GRIZ fan, but after lasts years performance, we should have been in your spot... at best number. *Seriously, I don't think the Griz at this point and time are better than a number 12 seed. *There are way toooooooooooooooo many ifs and they have to answer them first. *They got a top five seed (#4) off of name alone. *


Shakermaker, *I think it was a more than name alone. *The reason why the Grizzlies are *where they are is because they have continually, year after year, proven that they have the ability to reload after losing good players. *There never seams to be much of a drop off with you guys. *

Good point, but 16 teams make the playoffs, and just now, I'm not so sure the spot we were given was worthy of our showing last year. *A twelve in the rankings would have still put us in the playoffs if you know what I mean. And don't get me wrong, I love the respect, but I'd like a bit of reality this year. Sometimes the respect gives a team an over inflated sense of the "real" work needed to be done. I know the Bison in their DII days were given a higher rank than maybe they deserved when they domintated the 80's and much of the 90's... but as any team, had that "year" that was soooooooooo much of a let down. Do you get where I'm coming from. I'm rambling and a bit out on the piss right now.