Gene Taylor Concern - Sioux Scheduling

[Buff01]

In the Forum he says one of his biggest concerns is having both schools on a level playing field? *The Gophers are playing the Bison knowing we are on different playing fields - but we can't schedule the Sioux in a year or two? *Maybe Gene actually thinks we belong in the Big 10? *Bring on the Sioux.

[Bisonguy]

The game against the Gophers does not hurt Minnesota's postseason opportunities.

A game against a DII UND would hurt NDSU's postseason opportunities in 2008.

[lakesbison]

Bisonguy beat me to it.

secondaly.... NDSU IS NOT GOING TO LET UND WALTZ THROUGH THIS!!!

NDSU DOESNT FORGET THE PAST!!

make your bed and LIE in it!!

DAM!! stop with this nonsense!!

[silkamilkamonico]

DAM!! *stop with this nonsense!!


Heed you own advice. Please!

I think they should try and get the Sioux in the next year or 2, while the playoffs are still not a possibility.

Think of the money it would generate in to NDSU. Some of you guys were all about the money when it came to the gophers, I don't see why it should be any different with UND also.

[Bisonguy]

The game should be attempted to be scheduled in 2009 at the earliest.

That way, it does not hinder NDSU's postseason opportunities, as already discussed in-depth on this board.

Of course, this would require a fair contract, not one that has a "neutral" site game or any of the other BS that was attempted previously.

[lakesbison]

Silk..

Because I was taught and educated at NDSU to have some integrity, pride and respect, as well as honor the past.

money isn't the reason to play UND.

because of the things I stated, We should NOT play UND.. based on UND"S lack of integrity, respect.....

NDSU is above that.. and didn't deserved the treatment back in 02. .and certainly DO NOT need UND to survive on the athletic battlegrounds..

[Woden]

A game against a DII UND would hurt NDSU's postseason opportunities in 2008.

I can't believe a Bison poster has the balls to say such a thing. How much flack did UND take for not scheduling NDSU during their transition period because UND said "It would hurt postseason opportunities?" This was pretty obvious when the Sioux recieved more postseason points by beating the sisters of the poor over at Crookston than the Bison did beating a very good Montana team. Sioux fans have constantly been told on this board that because NDSU would not play UND during the Sioux's transition period out of spite. Now we are hearing the same reason not to play the Sioux that the Sioux gave the Bison 3 years ago. It's a little different when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? Now that you see that the game may actually hinder the program from acheiving some goals, the game is not wanted. Just like the way UND was feeling 3 years ago. So let's quit bickering back and forth and uninviting each other to Birthday Parties and start having intelligent conversations on the topic.

[silkamilkamonico]

Silk..

Because I was taught and educated at NDSU to have some integrity, pride and respect, as well as honor the past.

money isn't the reason to play UND.

because of the things I stated, We should NOT play UND.. based on UND"S lack of integrity, respect.....

NDSU is above that.. and didn't deserved the treatment back in 02. .and certainly DO NOT need UND to survive on the athletic battlegrounds..


Not playing UND "based on their lack of integrity, and respect...etc.." shows complete lack of character on NDSU's part. You can choose to have your own opinion about it, but the fact is, it would be in NDSU's best interest to play UND ASAP.

The irony in your posts is beyond mind baffling.

The best character NDSU can show in the situation, is playing UND ASAP as long as it doesn't affect playoff oppurtunities, because it is in fact would benefit the NDSU program.

Not playing them because of something they did 3+ years ago is a decsision based on an elementary level.

NDSU needs to do what's in the best interest of their programs, and like it or not that would include a game with UND.

You neeed to deal with that.

[Bisonguy]

A game against a DII UND would hurt NDSU's postseason opportunities in 2008.

I can't believe a Bison poster has the balls to say such a thing. *How much flack did UND take for not scheduling NDSU during their transition period because UND said "It would hurt postseason opportunities?" *This was pretty obvious when the Sioux recieved more postseason points by beating the sisters of the poor over at Crookston than the Bison did beating a very good Montana team. *Sioux fans have constantly been told on this board that because NDSU would not play UND during the Sioux's transition period out of spite. *Now we are hearing the same reason not to play the Sioux that the Sioux gave the Bison 3 years ago. *It's a little different when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? *Now that you see that the game may actually hinder the program from acheiving some goals, the game is not wanted. *Just like the way UND was feeling 3 years ago. *So let's quit bickering back and forth and uninviting each other to Birthday Parties and start having intelligent conversations on the topic.


That was the case in 2003, but the DII SSI was modified EACH year after that, with DI-AA schools being worth substantially MORE and MORE points. That litlle fact seems to have been left out of UND's argument.


Anyhow, what's good for the goose.....

[Woden]

A game against a DII UND would hurt NDSU's postseason opportunities in 2008.

I can't believe a Bison poster has the balls to say such a thing. How much flack did UND take for not scheduling NDSU during their transition period because UND said "It would hurt postseason opportunities?" This was pretty obvious when the Sioux recieved more postseason points by beating the sisters of the poor over at Crookston than the Bison did beating a very good Montana team. Sioux fans have constantly been told on this board that because NDSU would not play UND during the Sioux's transition period out of spite. Now we are hearing the same reason not to play the Sioux that the Sioux gave the Bison 3 years ago. It's a little different when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? Now that you see that the game may actually hinder the program from acheiving some goals, the game is not wanted. Just like the way UND was feeling 3 years ago. So let's quit bickering back and forth and uninviting each other to Birthday Parties and start having intelligent conversations on the topic.


That was the case in 2003, but the DII SSI was modified EACH year after that, with DI-AA schools being worth substantially MORE and MORE points. That litlle fact seems to have been left out of UND's argument.


Anyhow, what's good for the goose.....



Everything you say is true. I know that modifications were made to make a win over the Grizzlies as good as a win over the...uh...what is Crookston's nickname? Anyways, this only makes my point that much stronger. You will admit that UND would have hindered its playoff chances by playing NDSU when it was D1, correct? And you will also need to admit that the first year UND took NDSU off its football schedule was 2004, not 2002 as some have said. UND played NDSU in 2002 when the Bison were 2-8 and in D2. UND played NDSU in 2003 during the Bison's 7-3 exploratory year because they were still in the same conference together. The game was not played in 2004 because at that time beating a team in D1 was still not as good for making the playoffs as beating a team such as Crookston. Last year was the first real chance for a D2 team to play up a level and not have to worry about hurting postseason chances, but by then, animosity had grown between the two programs and besides, NDSU was starting to find enough D1 programs to schedule that it didn't really need the help like before. Like it or not, no one is really to blame in this whole situation. UND did at the time what was best for the program and I expect for NDSU to do the same, although personally I would like to see a game as soon as possible. But as you say, what's good for the goose.

[BisonMav]

Everything you say is true. *I know that modifications were made to make a win over the Grizzlies as good as a win over the...uh...what is Crookston's nickname? *Anyways, this only makes my point that much stronger. *You will admit that UND would have hindered its playoff chances by playing NDSU when it was D1, correct? *And you will also need to admit that the first year UND took NDSU off its football schedule was 2004, not 2002 as some have said. *UND played NDSU in 2002 when the Bison were 2-8 and in D2. *UND played NDSU in 2003 during the Bison's 7-3 exploratory year because they were still in the same conference together. *The game was not played in 2004 because at that time beating a team in D1 was still not as good for making the playoffs as beating a team such as Crookston. *

8-3 in 2003

[Bison_Dan]

You need to forget about the sioux. They have 2 year left of dii and if they don't raise the 2 million and stop the deficits in the athletic dept they won't move up. (per kupy)

[RedRiver]

You need to forget about the sioux. *They have 2 year left of dii and if they don't raise the 2 million and stop the deficits in the athletic dept they won't move up. *(per kupy)

I agree, please move on people.

[IowaBison]

You need to forget about the sioux. They have 2 year left of dii and if they don't raise the 2 million and stop the deficits in the athletic dept they won't move up. (per kupy)


Is that really true, though?

After essentially declaring the move earlier this week, how does UND get the shit back in the horse if the dollars and the conference invite don't materialize?

Maybe Flanders should chime in, he's the expert on all things scatological here in Bisonville.

[MplsBison]

2006 - schedule finished, nothing we can do

2007 - doesn't hurt us to have UND since we are not playoff eligible *SCHEDULE THEM*

2008 - we are playoff eligible and need as many quality DI-AA wins as we can get

2009 and beyond - UND is a counter *SCHEDULE THEM*

[02Bison]

Silk..

Because I was taught and educated at NDSU to have some integrity, pride and respect, as well as honor the past.

money isn't the reason to play UND.

because of the things I stated, We should NOT play UND.. based on UND"S lack of integrity, respect.....

NDSU is above that.. and didn't deserved the treatment back in 02. .and certainly DO NOT need UND to survive on the athletic battlegrounds..

What good would acting like they "did" do lakes? NDSU should be better than that. "He did it therefore I can do it" is the wrong kind of mentality. *What needs to happen is some fans need to grow up, learn how to forgive and forget, and to move on with grace and dignity instead of contiuing on with all the spite and hatred. *UND going to DI brings new opportunities for great things in the NDSU/UND rivalry and for the State of North Dakota. When I say great things that doesn't include acting like hate mongering idiots. *My two cents on this whole issue. Grow up and act more like a respectful Man lakes. You'll be amazed how much better you'll feel when you aren't always harboring such irrational hate. *

[lakesbison]

what da heck.


you are the EPITOME of what UND wanted to hear from bison fans, nodak population.


They were banking and depending on people like you that will just forget the past and say "ah schucks.. lets play them again"

you should be ashamed of yourself!!!

what a turnover........ why dont you rub their bellies while your at it..... un real

DONT PLAY UND til 2012..... at earliest!!!

they USED ndsu and sdsu.. period.

[02Bison]

what da heck.
you should be ashamed of yourself!!!


I hate to break it to you, but I'm not ashamed of myself lakes. Carrying hate on does no good lakes. Have you ever heard of a concept of altruism?

[lakesbison]

id luv to stay and bicker with u and show u that u are wrong! but i have to get to twins game.


read what I said up there again.

what u are doing is EXACTLY what UND wants from us, there arrogance with what they said in the past and how they treated us cannot be forgotten nor forgiven.....

dont cave in and give them a free ride.. that is NOT right.. if someone spits in ur face..... then u are man enough to walk away (i.e = ndsu moving to D 1)... 4 years later that same person,(after years of dogging and ridiculing you) walks up and say's .. hey im gonna copy you and move next to you in your neighbor hood...

wouldn't you be freakin pissed??!? or you would just say "aw shuckss... i forgive you"

forget that..... I dont forgive snobbish, arrogent people who sue the NCAA and piss off the entire indian nation..

screw the sioux forever in my book.

WAC CONFERENCE.. if UND is gonna water down D 1 AA..

[02Bison]

id luv to stay and bicker with u...

I'm not going to bicker with you.


there arrogance with what they said in the past and how they treated us cannot be forgotten nor forgiven.....

Who's arrogance? "There [sic]" arrogance?!?! *You're the one acting arrogant.


dont cave in and give them a free ride.. that is NOT right.. *

I don't think they'll have a free ride. Their transition is going to be spendy.


forget that..... I dont forgive snobbish, arrogent [sic]

Obviously that's why you can't forgive yourself and why you are in denial of the way you talk here. I surely hope you don't walk the walk that you talk in here. *

I'm done debating with you. While your style of communcating is unique, it certainly is sophomoric as well. *

Go Bison! *Show the Sioux what you are made of whenever you are given the chance again! *

[BraxtonT]

id luv to stay and bicker with u and show u that u are wrong! *but i have to get to twins game.


read what I said up there again.

what u are doing is EXACTLY what UND wants from us, *there arrogance with what they said in the past and how they treated us cannot be forgotten nor forgiven.....

dont cave in and give them a free ride.. that is NOT right.. * *if someone spits in ur face..... then u are man enough to walk away (i.e = ndsu moving to D 1)... 4 years later that same person,(after years of dogging and ridiculing you) walks up and say's .. hey im gonna copy you and move next to you in your neighbor hood...

wouldn't you be freakin pissed??!? * or you would just say "aw shuckss... i forgive you"

forget that..... I dont forgive snobbish, arrogent people who sue the NCAA and piss off the entire indian nation..

screw the sioux forever in my book.

WAC CONFERENCE.. if UND is gonna water down D 1 AA..

RT was in charge, not the fans on this messageboard or even Kupchella for that matter. It was the leader of the athletics department who made the decision. RT is not in charge anymore, so it's NOT the same person.

It's folks who acted out in public the way "Lakes" writes on this board that made the rivalry what it was towards the end, not enjoyable. Giving your buddies who like the other team a bad time is OK, but when total strangers go out of there way to be an a-hole because someone is wearing the other team's apparel is BS. That's what the rivalry became the last few years. There were an equal number of these characters on both sides to ruin the atmosphere for fans like me. My hope is that with the layoff, the stupidity will be much lower than it was at the end of the DII portion of the rivalry.

[02Bison]

Edited for worthwhile content

RT was in charge, not the fans on this messageboard or even Kupchella for that matter. *It was the leader of the athletics department who made the decision. *RT is not in charge anymore, so it's NOT the same person.

It's folks who acted out in public the way "Lakes" writes on this board that made the rivalry what it was towards the end, not enjoyable. *Giving your buddies who like the other team a bad time is OK, but when total strangers go out of there way to be an a-hole because someone is wearing the other team's apparel is BS. *That's what the rivalry became the last few years. *There were an equal number of these characters on both sides to ruin the atmosphere for fans like me. *My hope is that with the layoff, the stupidity will be much lower than it was at the end of the DII portion of the rivalry.


Well said BraxtonT!

[Bisonguy]

Why the heck is my name getting dragged into the response line, lakes??





I say as soon as UND is a counter and if the contract is fair to both parties, the game should be played. 2009 seems to be the first opportunity.

[Woden]

forget that..... I dont forgive snobbish, arrogent people who sue the NCAA and piss off the entire indian nation..

screw the sioux forever in my book.




Tell me again, who is hostile and abusive?

[silkamilkamonico]

I dont forgive snobbish, arrogent people who sue the NCAA and piss off the entire indian nation..

screw the sioux forever in my book.

WAC CONFERENCE.. if UND is gonna water down D 1 AA..


Good grief.

"screw the sioux forever in my book"

"UND is goona water d1aa DOWN"

"NDSU is on to bigger and better things because they beat Wisonsin"

"I make things happen in Fargo"

"etc, etc, etc....."

even you have to see the irony of your "I dont forgive snobbish, arrogent people who sue the NCAA and piss off the entire indian nation.."

With your "snobbish" and "arrogant" remark, you would fit right in with them.

[Woden]

what da heck.


you are the EPITOME of what UND wanted to hear from bison fans, nodak population.


They were banking and depending on people like you that will just forget the past and say "ah schucks.. lets play them again"

you should be ashamed of yourself!!!

what a turnover........ why dont you rub their bellies while your at it..... un real

DONT PLAY UND til 2012..... at earliest!!!

they USED ndsu and sdsu.. period.


While you may think you speak for NDSU and its athletic programs, the truth is, you don't. If it were up to the players, the games never would have stopped and would still be going on today. Many of the posters on here who are in support of the game are former players that want nothing more than to see an old rivalry renewed. I'm not sure where you are from originally, but i'm pretty sure you live in the Twin Cities now. If you didn't grow up in North Dakota, you probably don't know how big of a game the Sioux-Bison game was. The state pretty much shut down for a Saturday in the fall, and sometimes, if we were lucky, two of them. The rivalry was always a good one, but never as bitter as you and others have made it. It used to be a good, hard fought game in which records going in meant nothing as players left everything on the line. The players would love for a chance to do it again because try as they might, NDSU can't make a rock worth a nickel.

And as long as I'm talking about former players on here, you guys had the perfect opportunity to get some insight into how the players feel and what really goes on behind the scenes on the football team when CB#27 and LB#28 came on to post. Hell, they were even brave enough to tell you who they were in their sigs. But, because of the immaturity on this board and people being unable to realize that these two know 100x more what is going on with the program than anyone here, they quit trying to give you guys a glimpse into that world. Enough with the hatred, if you don't want anyone who likes the Sioux to come to your birthday party, that's fine. Take all your Bison buddies and go get some happy meals together and sit on Ronald's lap, I'm sure it'll be great.

[02Bison]

Edited for worthwhile content


While you may think you speak for NDSU and its athletic programs, the truth is, you don't. *If it were up to the players, the games never would have stopped and would still be going on today. *Many of the posters on here who are in support of the game are former players that want nothing more than to see an old rivalry renewed. *I'm not sure where you are from originally, but i'm pretty sure you live in the Twin Cities now. *If you didn't grow up in North Dakota, you probably don't know how big of a game the Sioux-Bison game was. *The state pretty much shut down for a Saturday in the fall, and sometimes, if we were lucky, two of them. *The rivalry was always a good one, but never as bitter as you and others have made it. *It used to be a good, hard fought game in which records going in meant nothing as players left everything on the line. *The players would love for a chance to do it again because try as they might, NDSU can't make a rock worth a nickel.

And as long as I'm talking about former players on here, you guys had the perfect opportunity to get some insight into how the players feel and what really goes on behind the scenes on the football team when CB#27 and LB#28 came on to post. *Hell, they were even brave enough to tell you who they were in their sigs. *But, because of the immaturity on this board and people being unable to realize that these two know 100x more what is going on with the program than anyone here, they quit trying to give you guys a glimpse into that world. *Enough with the hatred, if you don't want anyone who likes the Sioux to come to your birthday party, that's fine. *Take all your Bison buddies and go get some happy meals together and sit on Ronald's lap, I'm sure it'll be great.

In honor of Sambini ++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!!!!!

[johnnyboy]

In the Forum he says one of his biggest concerns is having both schools on a level playing field? *The Gophers are playing the Bison knowing we are on different playing fields - but we can't schedule the Sioux in a year or two? *Maybe Gene actually thinks we belong in the Big 10? *Bring on the Sioux.
I firmly believe that Gene Taylor has enough vision to think the Big Ten could be our final destination as far as conference affiliation is concerned!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :)

[NDSUstudent]

id luv to stay and bicker with u and show u that u are wrong! *but i have to get to twins game.


read what I said up there again.

what u are doing is EXACTLY what UND wants from us, *there arrogance with what they said in the past and how they treated us cannot be forgotten nor forgiven.....

dont cave in and give them a free ride.. that is NOT right.. * *if someone spits in ur face..... then u are man enough to walk away (i.e = ndsu moving to D 1)... 4 years later that same person,(after years of dogging and ridiculing you) walks up and say's .. hey im gonna copy you and move next to you in your neighbor hood...

wouldn't you be freakin pissed??!? * or you would just say "aw shuckss... i forgive you"

forget that..... I dont forgive snobbish, arrogent people who sue the NCAA and piss off the entire indian nation..

screw the sioux forever in my book.

WAC CONFERENCE.. if UND is gonna water down D 1 AA..

Lakes sometimes you just have to move on, I would hate for NDSU to feel the need to stoop to UND's level. I never want to hear Joe Chapman say he hates the success that UND is having and we may have to make illogical decisions just to keep pace with them. We should be concerned with making NDSU the best institution on and off the fields of play as possible and not an institution that is based on being better then UND. NDSU should not be concerned with sticking it to UND and making things as hard as possible for them nor should we be just handing everything out to them they want on a silver platter. IMO- we should play UND as soon as playing them doesn't hurt our playoff chances. The NDSU-UND game is something the state wants to see and most of the people from both schools want to see happen, as long as playing the game doesn't hurt us we should put them on the schedule as soon as possible. UND may have spit in our face but at some point one school has to be the bigger one and say this is stupid we should be working togather and not trying to tear each other apart.

Plus Lakes last time I checked NDSU has some damn good teams and it would be a shame for our athletes not to have the chance to show UND just how good DI teams can be. NDSU shouldn't be sticking it to UND by not scheduling them we should be sticking it to them on the field.

[kchats]

Gene Taylor knows what he is doing and that is why UND will not be on any schedule until they are a division I counter. *That might be 2009 or it could be sooner in football from what I have heard. *I guess a school can become a counter by playing a mostly division I-AA schedule but that would be tough for them to do in 2008. *Therefore 2009 is probably when it happens.

As others have said the Bison need to continue to put themselves in the national spotlight by playing good quality division I-AA programs and division I-A teams in 2007. *They need to continue to show the nation and the east coast pollsters that they will belong in the playoffs in 2008. *Playing UND in 2007 does nothing to help that situation.

Here is Head Football Coach Craig Bohl's thoughts on the situation.

Bison football coach Craig Bohl is less enthusiastic.

“We currently have a rivalry game with South Dakota State that exceeded my expectations,” he said. “We’re really pleased with where we are at. I think it’s a little premature to talk about scheduling.”

From this article.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=130871&section=Sports

[kchats]

A game against a DII UND would hurt NDSU's postseason opportunities in 2008.

I can't believe a Bison poster has the balls to say such a thing. *How much flack did UND take for not scheduling NDSU during their transition period because UND said "It would hurt postseason opportunities?" *This was pretty obvious when the Sioux recieved more postseason points by beating the sisters of the poor over at Crookston than the Bison did beating a very good Montana team. *Sioux fans have constantly been told on this board that because NDSU would not play UND during the Sioux's transition period out of spite. *Now we are hearing the same reason not to play the Sioux that the Sioux gave the Bison 3 years ago. *It's a little different when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? *Now that you see that the game may actually hinder the program from acheiving some goals, the game is not wanted. *Just like the way UND was feeling 3 years ago. *So let's quit bickering back and forth and uninviting each other to Birthday Parties and start having intelligent conversations on the topic.


This has been covered on thei board many times. Division I-AA playoff criteria clearly states that teams that have played a full division I schedule have a better chance at the At-Large bid. There are only 16 playoff spots in division I-AA football and the year UND refused to play NDSU division II increased the playoff field to 24 teams. NDSU will have just finished a 5 year probation where they were not allowed to play in the playoffs and you expect them to risk missing the playoffs by scheduling a division II team and lessening their strength of schedule. When UND is in our situation in about 7 years and St. Cloud State or somebody like that makes the move and will be in the first year of the transition will UND play them to help them out?

[DIBISON]

UND is still a DII team and until they apply to the NCAA for DI reclassification it is pointless to even talk about scheduling them.

[NanoBison]

2006 - schedule finished, nothing we can do

2007 - doesn't hurt us to have UND since we are not playoff eligible *SCHEDULE THEM*

and give them a free ride? I think not...

2008 - we are playoff eligible and need as many quality DI-AA wins as we can get

We might be looking at DI-A by now, if we are still conference-less...

2009 and beyond - UND is a counter *SCHEDULE THEM*

2011-2012 - they are playoff eligible and have gone through the full 5 years NDSU has and shown they can compete. At that moment, then we can assist them.

[Woden]

A game against a DII UND would hurt NDSU's postseason opportunities in 2008.

I can't believe a Bison poster has the balls to say such a thing. How much flack did UND take for not scheduling NDSU during their transition period because UND said "It would hurt postseason opportunities?" This was pretty obvious when the Sioux recieved more postseason points by beating the sisters of the poor over at Crookston than the Bison did beating a very good Montana team. Sioux fans have constantly been told on this board that because NDSU would not play UND during the Sioux's transition period out of spite. Now we are hearing the same reason not to play the Sioux that the Sioux gave the Bison 3 years ago. It's a little different when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? Now that you see that the game may actually hinder the program from acheiving some goals, the game is not wanted. Just like the way UND was feeling 3 years ago. So let's quit bickering back and forth and uninviting each other to Birthday Parties and start having intelligent conversations on the topic.


This has been covered on thei board many times. Division I-AA playoff criteria clearly states that teams that have played a full division I schedule have a better chance at the At-Large bid. There are only 16 playoff spots in division I-AA football and the year UND refused to play NDSU division II increased the playoff field to 24 teams. NDSU will have just finished a 5 year probation where they were not allowed to play in the playoffs and you expect them to risk missing the playoffs by scheduling a division II team and lessening their strength of schedule. When UND is in our situation in about 7 years and St. Cloud State or somebody like that makes the move and will be in the first year of the transition will UND play them to help them out?



Please point to a place where I said that NDSU should schedule UND immediately. I was pointing out the irony found in the statement that NDSU shouldn't schedule UND because it will hurt playoff chances. It's the same reasoning UND gave NDSU a couple of years ago. I think both schools did/are doing what was/is best for their respective programs, and find no problems with either school. I just think NDSU fans shouldn't be so quick to use scheduling as an excuse when UND got flack for using the same one a couple of years ago, that's all. The game will come back in good time.

[broke_back_mnt]

It would seem to me that we can have many reasons not to play. *Its our marquee they want their name on. *Its our 19,000 seats and state wide broadcasting with national implications that they want a part of. *

This isnt about being angry, although it might be easy to get angry if you look at the history between the two schools. *This is about giving something away. *Part of our gate, part of our network, part of our lore.

We have no problem going ahead as we are. *Coach Bohl knows that too. *Resurrecting an old rival of dubious character and little or no value might not be smart.

You want a great North Dakota Rival. *Bring the UMary Bismarck DII Marauders into town. *Classic David and Goliath match up. *The States 2 largest cities supporting their football teams = Fabulous Fargo Dome sellout! *8-)

[johnnyboy]

It would seem to me that we can have many reasons not to play. *Its our marquee they want their name on. *Its our 19,000 seats and state wide broadcasting with national implications that they want a part of. *

This isnt about being angry, although it might be easy to get angry if you look at the history between the two schools. *This is about giving something away. *Part of our gate, part of our network, part of our lore.

We have no problem going ahead as we are. *Coach Bohl knows that too. *Resurrecting an old rival of dubious character and little or no value might not be smart.

You want a great North Dakota Rival. *Bring the UMary Bismarck DII Marauders into town. *Classic David and Goliath match up. *The States 2 largest cities supporting their football teams = Fabulous Fargo Dome sellout! *8-)
GOOD IDEA!!! NO GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[WYOBISONMAN]

Come on Johnny and Swag......let's not have a spat on this thread too!?!

Name calling posts deleted.....

[swaghook]

again I apologize just getting sick of this guy. :-/

[johnnyboy]

again I apologize just getting sick of this guy. :-/
I may be from the same star cluster you are from, but I am sure you came from some Royal family. I had to work my way through life!!!!

[swaghook]

again I apologize just getting sick of this guy. :-/
I may be from the same star cluster you are from, but I am sure you came from some Royal family. I had to work my way through life!!!! * *
:-X.....out of respect of the moderators wishes

[johnnyboy]

Come on Johnny and Swag......let's not have a spat on this thread too!?!

Name calling posts deleted.....
OK

[Mr._Bill]

I truly believe that Dale Lennon is a man of integrity and has displayed this over the past 5 years. I also give Bunning the benefit of the doubt as he is saying the right things in the ndsu relationship. I could warm up to a football game with und, but there are still a few coaches/admin that I have zero respect for.

Playing the sioux in all sports is just a matter of time and not worth everyone getting ulcers over. I'm not sure why everyone is so excited, our AD will do the right thing.

[WYOBISONMAN]

*I'm not sure why everyone is so excited, our AD will do the right thing.


Maybe because it is summer and the football season seems a long ways away. ;)

[Gamehunter]

It would seem to me that we can have many reasons not to play. Its our marquee they want their name on. Its our 19,000 seats and state wide broadcasting with national implications that they want a part of.

This isnt about being angry, although it might be easy to get angry if you look at the history between the two schools. This is about giving something away. Part of our gate, part of our network, part of our lore.

We have no problem going ahead as we are. Coach Bohl knows that too. Resurrecting an old rival of dubious character and little or no value might not be smart.

You want a great North Dakota Rival. Bring the UMary Bismarck DII Marauders into town. Classic David and Goliath match up. The States 2 largest cities supporting their football teams = Fabulous Fargo Dome sellout! 8-)


I think in due time that would be an awesome idea. Right now....I am not convinced Mary can hang with the Bison any better than the Dragons could, and we all know the Bison have improved greatly since those days.

[MplsBison]

2006 - schedule finished, nothing we can do

2007 - doesn't hurt us to have UND since we are not playoff eligible *SCHEDULE THEM*

and give them a free ride? I think not...


How does playing UND at the Fargodome to the tune of 19k fans @ $20 each, all going straight to NDSU's athletic department, translate into a free ride for UND?


Why don't you use some logic in your next post instead of making things up out of blind hatred?




2008 - we are playoff eligible and need as many quality DI-AA wins as we can get

We might be looking at DI-A by now, if we are still conference-less...


NDSU will be in the Mid Con for the 2006 season. No other way to it.

Might as well not even talk about anything else.




2009 and beyond - UND is a counter *SCHEDULE THEM*

2011-2012 - they are playoff eligible and have gone through the full 5 years NDSU has and shown they can compete. At that moment, then we can assist them.




You would screw NDSU out of at least two sold out Fargodomes (maybe three) for nothing more than blind hatred?

No offense, but I'm damn glad you don't call the shots.

[broke_back_mnt]

Every game draws 14,500 so your only talking about 4,000 potential seats, but thats still $80,000. But then, I think your average price is going to be $12 - $15 so it might be more like $50,000,

One thing we know for sure, its at least 3 yrs away. By then we might be averaging 16 - 17,000 so your really only talking about $15,000 grand or so. I would want to see the alternatives before I was rushing into any kind of a deal with them.

[johnnyboy]

2006 - schedule finished, nothing we can do

2007 - doesn't hurt us to have UND since we are not playoff eligible *SCHEDULE THEM*

and give them a free ride? I think not...


How does playing UND at the Fargodome to the tune of 19k fans @ $20 each, all going straight to NDSU's athletic department, translate into a free ride for UND?


Why don't you use some logic in your next post instead of making things up out of blind hatred?




2008 - we are playoff eligible and need as many quality DI-AA wins as we can get

We might be looking at DI-A by now, if we are still conference-less...


NDSU will be in the Mid Con for the 2006 season. No other way to it.

Might as well not even talk about anything else.




2009 and beyond - UND is a counter *SCHEDULE THEM*

2011-2012 - they are playoff eligible and have gone through the full 5 years NDSU has and shown they can compete. At that moment, then we can assist them.




You would screw NDSU out of at least two sold out Fargodomes (maybe three) for nothing more than blind hatred?

No offense, but I'm damn glad you don't call the shots.

As Ol' Abe Lincoln would say "With malice toward none and charity for all"

[BisonInTexas]

A game against a DII UND would hurt NDSU's postseason opportunities in 2008.

I can't believe a Bison poster has the balls to say such a thing. *How much flack did UND take for not scheduling NDSU during their transition period because UND said "It would hurt postseason opportunities?" *This was pretty obvious when the Sioux recieved more postseason points by beating the sisters of the poor over at Crookston than the Bison did beating a very good Montana team. *Sioux fans have constantly been told on this board that because NDSU would not play UND during the Sioux's transition period out of spite. *Now we are hearing the same reason not to play the Sioux that the Sioux gave the Bison 3 years ago. *It's a little different when the shoe is on the other foot, huh? *Now that you see that the game may actually hinder the program from acheiving some goals, the game is not wanted. *Just like the way UND was feeling 3 years ago. *So let's quit bickering back and forth and uninviting each other to Birthday Parties and start having intelligent conversations on the topic.


That was the case in 2003, but the DII SSI was modified EACH year after that, with DI-AA schools being worth substantially MORE and MORE points. That litlle fact seems to have been left out of UND's argument.


Anyhow, what's good for the goose.....



Everything you say is true. *I know that modifications were made to make a win over the Grizzlies as good as a win over the...uh...what is Crookston's nickname? *Anyways, this only makes my point that much stronger. *You will admit that UND would have hindered its playoff chances by playing NDSU when it was D1, correct? *And you will also need to admit that the first year UND took NDSU off its football schedule was 2004, not 2002 as some have said. *UND played NDSU in 2002 when the Bison were 2-8 and in D2. *UND played NDSU in 2003 during the Bison's 7-3 exploratory year because they were still in the same conference together. *The game was not played in 2004 because at that time beating a team in D1 was still not as good for making the playoffs as beating a team such as Crookston. *Last year was the first real chance for a D2 team to play up a level and not have to worry about hurting postseason chances, but by then, animosity had grown between the two programs and besides, NDSU was starting to find enough D1 programs to schedule that it didn't really need the help like before. *Like it or not, no one is really to blame in this whole situation. *UND did at the time what was best for the program and I expect for NDSU to do the same, although personally I would like to see a game as soon as possible. *But as you say, what's good for the goose.


I am all for intelligent discussion, but lets not have a selective memory on this.
Two points:
1) In 2004 the DII playoff field was expanded to 24 teams, further minimizing the effect of a loss, regardless of how many points a win or a loss vs. DI-AA, so UND's reasoning to reject NDSU's offer for a home and home series at that time due to the fragile state of their playoff chances is suspect at best.
2) Regardless of the reasoning in FB to not schedule the Bison, how do you explain the fact that UND also refused to schedule (and held a press conference for the express purpose of stating such) the Bison in mens and women's BB, two sports that had virtually no playoff penalties for playing a DI team? *

That to me was pure spite on the part of the UND administation and started the poisoning of the relationship between the schools. *Until a new administration is at place at UND (i.e. Kupchella is gone), I don't see this changing. *

That being said, as a fan, I tend to lean toward scheduling UND sooner rather than later, because I would like to see the two teams play. *But other than some good gates and taking the moral high ground, NDSU has little to gain - it only helps UND in a tough scheduling period and hurts NDSU's recruiting by enabling a main rival get its feet set in DI.

Craig

[JackJD]

Seems like there're a few Bison with memories of how nasty some UND fans were a few years ago. I recall how the vitriole from the UND fans was much worse than comments made by some USD fans toward SDSU. But, it is important to keep in mind that even though it seemed there were quite a few UND supporters who had a lot of bad to say about NDSU's decision to move to D-1, they were still a very small minority. I know some UND fans who felt terrible they were losing the rivalry with NDSU and they wanted to follow NDSU's lead.

UND has its own set of problems it must address in order to make the transition.

I think you have to be practical and consider the bottom line: money. WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT (your A.D. and football coaches know when that is), a game with UND will be huge. That will only help the Bison be financially secure.

I think NDSU has to stay on the high road. Anything, ANYTHING, UND says, no matter the tone, can only be construed as "I guess you were right afterall." They can't sugar-coat their decision. They have to tacitly admit they were wrong. Everyone knows that. So, no need to rub it in. We all know the score.

Down south, USD is really in a tough spot. The normal decision-making process is gone: they can only react and their choices are not good.

[SDbison]

My 2 cents........many of the UND posters (most likely UND coaches, their AD and president too) were bitter when NDSU made the move to DI. *They wanted NDSU to fail. *One of the most common themes was NDSU wronged the NCC, and UND, by leaving the conference behind (we all know back then NDSU tried to get as much of the NCC to move up). *Now NDSU is being rough on UND again.....what a bunch of BS.
If you follow UND's logic when a coworker leaves the company in pursuit of a better job you would not wish them well and congratulate them. *You would outwardly show your jealousy, get pissy and tell them to get lost. *How mature would that be? *

[lakesbison]

SPIN IT ANYWAY YOU WANT.

UND was a whiny, b.tchy, jealous person.... and NDSU left them in the dust.

NDSU did all the LEG work and stuck their necks out!!!!

UND was arrogant, and idiotic.

We wont forget!!! nor forgive!!

give it up!!. you UND fans try and spin this anyway you want, or try and GOAT taylor into scheduling you..

it WONT work!!

NDSU has more integrity than that!!!


**********************************
) Regardless of the reasoning in FB to not schedule the Bison, how do you explain the fact that UND also refused to schedule (and held a press conference for the express purpose of stating such) the Bison in mens and women's BB, two sports that had virtually no playoff penalties for playing a DI team?

That to me was pure spite on the part of the UND administation and started the poisoning of the relationship between the schools. Until a new administration is at place at UND (i.e. Kupchella is gone), I don't see this changing.

*************************************

^^^^^^AMEN ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ thats why UND doesnt deserve NDSU

[Gamehunter]

For the most part I agree with those that support not playing the Sux untill they are a D-I counter in football. And fortunately coach Bohl per today's forum is against scheduling them anytime soon.

[MplsBison]

Every game draws 14,500 so your only talking about 4,000 potential seats, but thats still $80,000. But then, I think your average price is going to be $12 - $15 so it might be more like $50,000,

One thing we know for sure, its at least 3 yrs away. By then we might be averaging 16 - 17,000 so your really only talking about $15,000 grand or so. I would want to see the alternatives before I was rushing into any kind of a deal with them.


A sell out is a sell out.

To take that away from NDSU for nothing more than blind hatred is childish.


Boys make decisions with their emotions.


Businessmen make decisions with logic.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Every game draws 14,500 so your only talking about 4,000 potential seats, but thats still $80,000. *But then, I think your average price is going to be $12 - $15 so it might be more like $50,000,

One thing we know for sure, its at least 3 yrs away. *By then we might be averaging 16 - 17,000 so your really only talking about $15,000 grand or so. *I would want to see the alternatives before I was rushing into any kind of a deal with them. *


A sell out is a sell out.

To take that away from NDSU for nothing more than blind hatred is childish.


Boys make decisions with their emotions.


Businessmen make decisions with logic.


You are right about being a businessman, and no businessman would take a chance on playing a team (read-UND non-DI counter) that would put our chances of post season play at risk. That is a VERY wise business decision.

[broke_back_mnt]

Very true Wyo. Businessmen dont rush into decision long before all the facts are known either.

Assuming your going to sell 19,000 is unfounded as well. The big money being talked about just isnt there because expectations of a sell out are not unique to this game. We have a lot of options and to throw them out the window now is hasty at best.

[TransAmBison]

Very true Wyo. *Businessmen dont rush into decision long before all the facts are known either. *

Assuming your going to sell 19,000 is unfounded as well. *The big money being talked about just isnt there because expectations of a sell out are not unique to this game. *We have a lot of options and to throw them out the window now is hasty at best.
Selling 19,000 is a given. The rest of your points may have a lot of truth in them, but on the point of a sellout, it is a given. The game would be a sellout. Period.

[kchats]

Now UND is trying to get NDSU to turn the Mid Con down if offered either Tuesday or in the near future. How is that for an institution you want to work with. Hey guys we ripped you up and down, spit in your face, told you you have made your bed with this horrible decision to move to division I now lie in it, complained that you killed the rivalry by leaving us behind but now we want you to wait until we are offered conference membership at the same time. Give me a break. Why should NDSU wait another 3 years or more for a conference just so UND can get in with them? Once again they are trying to get onto the coat tails after the Mid Con knocked them off. Here are the quotes from an article in today's Forum.

North Dakota State doesn’t plan to wait for rival University of North Dakota in its search for an NCAA Division I conference.

“If the Mid-Con comes and says we’re in, we’re going,” said NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor. “If the Big Sky or any other conference comes and says we’re in, we’re going. We can’t afford to wait.”

NDSU has been searching for a conference since its move from Division II to Division I in 2004. Last week, UND announced plans to move to Division I, but it won’t have a full Division I schedule until the 2008-09 school year.

“We have a little bit of catching up to do,” said UND athletic director Tom Buning, who said he spoke to Mid-Continent Conference commissioner Tom Douple last month. “He told me since we were in the studying phase at that time that we weren’t at all in their discussions.”

Douple said he doesn’t foresee UND being part of discussions at Tuesday’s Mid-Continent Conference President’s Council meeting in Chicago. The focus of the meeting is expanding what will become a seven-team league.

NDSU, South Dakota State and as many as three other Division I independents already have submitted institutional profiles for Mid-Con presidents to review.

“They are at ground zero as far as what they know about us,” said Buning, who admits there is a fear NDSU will make a move without UND.

“They earned a lot of gutsy points, and they are ready to reap that reward for getting into a conference,” Buning said of NDSU, which last year was denied a possible membership in the Big Sky Conference. “I can’t fault them for moving forward.

“But there may be something said for being patient for something better. I would think they would have to consider that option, too.”

Does UND’s announcement change NDSU’s thinking?

“No,” Taylor said. “We’re still continuing to move forward to get into a
conference as quickly as possible. Who knows, with so many changes in
conferences, maybe the Mid-Con would come back and visit them down the road.”

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=131102&section=Sports

[Bigears]

Every game draws 14,500 so your only talking about 4,000 potential seats, but thats still $80,000. *But then, I think your average price is going to be $12 - $15 so it might be more like $50,000,

One thing we know for sure, its at least 3 yrs away. *By then we might be averaging 16 - 17,000 so your really only talking about $15,000 grand or so. *I would want to see the alternatives before I was rushing into any kind of a deal with them. *


A sell out is a sell out.

To take that away from NDSU for nothing more than blind hatred is childish.


Boys make decisions with their emotions.


Businessmen make decisions with logic.


It ain't blind hatred. By turning its back on its relationship with NDSU in 2003, UND has shown itself to be an untrustworthy business partner. *Any good business person would think twice before entering such a relationship again. Fool me once, shame on you....

[BisonBacker]

You need to forget about the sioux. *They have 2 year left of dii and if they don't raise the 2 million and stop the deficits in the athletic dept they won't move up. *(per kupy)
You hit the nail on the head and this should be all that needs to be said about this sorry topic. We are DI, lets schedule DI teams and leave the rest of the BS up north work itself out. I don't think Gene's concerned at all about this ridiculous topic.

[BisonBacker]

Every game draws 14,500 so your only talking about 4,000 potential seats, but thats still $80,000. *But then, I think your average price is going to be $12 - $15 so it might be more like $50,000,

One thing we know for sure, its at least 3 yrs away. *By then we might be averaging 16 - 17,000 so your really only talking about $15,000 grand or so. *I would want to see the alternatives before I was rushing into any kind of a deal with them. *


A sell out is a sell out.

To take that away from NDSU for nothing more than blind hatred is childish.


Boys make decisions with their emotions.


Businessmen make decisions with logic.

Tell that to the folks who used to run Enron, appeared logical that they try to line thier pockets with the hard earned money of the folks, well I'm not giving my hard earned money to watch NDSU lower themselves to play the whioux :o

[MplsBison]

no businessman would take a chance on playing a team (read-UND non-DI counter) that would put our chances of post season play at risk.


I can't believe you would even go there when you obviously knew that was not the point I was trying to make.


Nano says that we should not play the Sioux until 2011, when they are playoff eligible.

That means we wouldn't schedule them in 2007, when it would not hurt out playoff chances since we're still ineligible in the first place, or 2009 and 2010 when we are playoff eligible and they aren't.

Just because they're not playoff eligible doesn't mean they hurt our chances of going to the playoffs.

You want proof?


2005 - Cal Poly - four playoff ineligible teams on their schedule. They beat UNC, NDSU, and SDSU and lost to Davis.

Refresh my memory, did they go to the playoffs?


And you're trying to tell me that having an ineligible UND will hurt NDSU's chances of going to the playoffs?!


Utter horse manure.

[MplsBison]

Assuming your going to sell 19,000 is unfounded as well.


http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3605/att6al.png


I was going to just type them in, but I figured you'd ask for a source etc. so I just went straight to the media guide.

If they got it wrong, take it up with them, not me.



The big money being talked about just isnt there because expectations of a sell out are not unique to this game. We have a lot of options and to throw them out the window now is hasty at best.

Unless we're going to play Valparaiso again, there is no history of any other team coming to Fargo and drawing such a crowd.


No I-A team will ever come to Fargo unless NDSU goes DI-A.

We've yet to get Montana State or Montana to Fargo, but I assume they'll be up there.


SDSU has yet to draw that well, but I imagine in the future they have that potential.



None of that automatically exempts scheduling UND.


We can schedule UND, SDSU, Montana, and Montana St. in the same season just perfectly fine.



So, what are these oppertunities you're talking about that we're throwing out the window?

[Bisonguy]

no businessman would take a chance on playing a team (read-UND non-DI counter) that would put our chances of post season play at risk. *


I can't believe you would even go there when you obviously knew that was not the point I was trying to make.


Nano says that we should not play the Sioux until 2011, when they are playoff eligible.

That means we wouldn't schedule them in 2007, when it would not hurt out playoff chances since we're still ineligible in the first place, or 2009 and 2010 when we are playoff eligible and they aren't.

Just because they're not playoff eligible doesn't mean they hurt our chances of going to the playoffs.

You want proof?


2005 - Cal Poly - four playoff ineligible teams on their schedule. They beat UNC, NDSU, and SDSU and lost to Davis.

Refresh my memory, did they go to the playoffs?


And you're trying to tell me that having an ineligible UND will hurt NDSU's chances of going to the playoffs?!


Utter horse manure.

A game vs. UND in 2008 would hurt NDSU's playoff chances, as UND would not be counted as a DI opponent. 2007 makes even less sense than 2008, as Gene will hopefully be getting a home/home with a good I-AA that will have NDSU on the road to start.

Cal-Poly's games were all against teams that were DI counters last year.


If you want proof against scheduling non-DI counters keeping a team out of the playoffs, look no further than Cal-Poly in 2004. The wins against NDSU and SDSU are what kept them out.

[MplsBison]

I agree that we should not schedule UND in 2008 because that will be their exploritory year.

I could even live with the argument that 2007 should be exempt because we should be getting home/home deals with teams to build up the 2008 schedule.


But not scheduling them in 2009 and 2010? UND will count as a DI team those years.



2005, Cal Poly, four ineligible teams on their schedule. They all counted as DI teams, though, and they made the playoffs.

NDSU can certainly make the playoffs in 2009 and 2010 with one ineligible team that counts as a DI.


You have no argument against that.

[Bisonguy]

I agree that we should not schedule UND in 2008 because that will be their exploritory year.

I could even live with the argument that 2007 should be exempt because we should be getting home/home deals with teams to build up the 2008 schedule.


But not scheduling them in 2009 and 2010? UND will count as a DI team those years.



2005, Cal Poly, four ineligible teams on their schedule. They all counted as DI teams, though, and they made the playoffs.

NDSU can certainly make the playoffs in 2009 and 2010 with one ineligible team that counts as a DI.


You have no argument against that.

I don't, and I'm all for renewing the rivalry in 2009.

[MplsBison]

And I think that is exactly what will happen.


Though I see little to no harm scheduling them in 2007, I think that Taylor will wait until 2009 to renew the rivalry.

That's just fine.


2009, NDSU gets the Nickel back!

[Gamehunter]

I agree that we should not schedule UND in 2008 because that will be their exploritory year.

I could even live with the argument that 2007 should be exempt because we should be getting home/home deals with teams to build up the 2008 schedule.


But not scheduling them in 2009 and 2010? UND will count as a DI team those years.



2005, Cal Poly, four ineligible teams on their schedule. They all counted as DI teams, though, and they made the playoffs.

NDSU can certainly make the playoffs in 2009 and 2010 with one ineligible team that counts as a DI.


You have no argument against that.


see, ive gathered something else from the above info. I don't think anyone is citing they are against paying UND untill they are through the transition based on the idea that it would hinder our playoff hopes, but rather the idea that we would be "helping" them during their transition. I don't necessarily agree with those ideas, but whatever floats their boat.

I know what your saying, schedule them in '09 and the playoff situation is a non-issue. I agree. Even if UND turns out to not be a good team whatsoever, it still wouldn't hurt us as the GWFC is already so strong our SOS would be 'way good' no matter what team we played as long as they were D-I.

[bincitysioux]

I also see everyone's point about not scheduling UND in 2008. NDSU could have a good shot at getting an at-large bid that year, and I'd imagine that there are alot of boosters that have ponied up for this move that are expecting a play-off berth when NDSU is eligible. If playing UND hurts those chances, then you shouldn't play us. However, unless the schedule is already full for 2007 (which it may be, I don't know) I don't see why NDSU shouldn't bring in UND that year if they are willing to come. I'm banking on 2009 as the year the rivalry is renewed. But it could be 2008 on the outside chance that UND is admitted into the GWFC for their first actual DI season. Poly and SUU, who were playoff eligible in 2004, didn't have a problem joining up with "non-counters" NDSU & SDSU that year.

[Gamehunter]

I'm banking on 2009 as the year the rivalry is renewed. But it could be 2008 on the outside chance that UND is admitted into the GWFC for their first actual DI season. Poly and SUU, who were playoff eligible in 2004, didn't have a problem joining up with "non-counters" NDSU & SDSU that year.

The difference with Poly and SUU is that they were independent in football. Playing two non-counters was better than playing nobody at all, or paying another D-II team to come to SLO or Cedar City. Both of those football programs have in the past and even still do struggle getting teams to travel to their place. In NDSU's case over scheduling UND, NDSU has the luxury of the GWFC, albiet a 5 team mini-conference, to bank on 2 conferance home games every year. A need for legitimate I-AA football programs visiting the Fargodome in 2008 could not be any more apparent when considering the chances of NDSU playing in an autobid conference that supports football by 2008. (probably close to 0%)

Additionally, the 2007 schedule is almost complete. I believe just a couple more teams are needed, and chances are Taylor will try to schedule I-AA road games to get them back here in '08.
Another possibility is Georgia Southern and/or Stephen F. Austin making a return visit to the Dome in '08 instead of '07. Not sure what they have planned so far. In that case, there could be a slight chance a 2007 game with the Sioux might work.

I am all for playing the Sioux in 2009 and beyond as long as the first game is at the FFD. :)

[WYOBISONMAN]

I also see everyone's point about not scheduling UND in 2008. *NDSU could have a good shot at getting an at-large bid that year, and I'd imagine that there are alot of boosters that have ponied up for this move that are expecting a play-off berth when NDSU is eligible. *If playing UND hurts those chances, then you shouldn't play us. *However, unless the schedule is already full for 2007 (which it may be, I don't know) I don't see why NDSU shouldn't bring in UND that year if they are willing to come. *I'm banking on 2009 as the year the rivalry is renewed. *But it could be 2008 on the outside chance that UND is admitted into the GWFC for their first actual DI season. *Poly and SUU, who were playoff eligible in 2004, didn't have a problem joining up with "non-counters" NDSU & SDSU that year. *

Agreed Bin.........I appreciate your candor.

[kchats]

I guess transitioning football teams can be counters by scheduling mostly division I-AA schools. I don't know that UND will be able to do that but if the were in the Great West they would have 5 division I-AA games so they would need to add whatever the number is to get to being a counter. 2007 is out in my book. UND can wait until they are a counter and Coach Bohl has already said as much. Don't expect Coach Bohl to schedule UND until he absolutely has to.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think they will be a counter the year after the exploratory year.

[mikelsch]

I think they will be a counter the year after the exploratory year.

A school becomes a counter if they schedule the required minimum DI contests for that particular sport. It will be UND's choice if they want to be a counted in year 1 (2008) or year 2 (2009).

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think they will be a counter the year after the exploratory year.

A school becomes a counter if they schedule the required minimum DI contests for that particular sport. *It will be UND's choice if they want to be a counted in year 1 (2008) or year 2 (2009). *

Correct, I am just assuming they will have the appropriate number of DI games. My understanding is also that in the Exploratory Year there is no way they could count as a DI opponent.

[bincitysioux]

I think they will be a counter the year after the exploratory year.

A school becomes a counter if they schedule the required minimum DI contests for that particular sport. *It will be UND's choice if they want to be a counted in year 1 (2008) or year 2 (2009). *

What is the required minimum number of DI contests for football?

[Hammersmith]

I think they will be a counter the year after the exploratory year.

A school becomes a counter if they schedule the required minimum DI contests for that particular sport. *It will be UND's choice if they want to be a counted in year 1 (2008) or year 2 (2009). *

What is the required minimum number of DI contests for football?


Football: 9
(NCAA Division I Manual: Article 20.9.3.3)

FYI:
Basketball: 25
Baseball: 27
Soccer: 11
Softball: 27
Volleyball:19

[bincitysioux]

I think they will be a counter the year after the exploratory year.

A school becomes a counter if they schedule the required minimum DI contests for that particular sport. *It will be UND's choice if they want to be a counted in year 1 (2008) or year 2 (2009). *

What is the required minimum number of DI contests for football?


Football: 9
(NCAA Division I Manual: Article 20.9.3.3)

FYI:
Basketball: 25
Baseball: 27
Soccer: 11
Softball: 27
Volleyball:19

Thanks.

[Hammersmith]

A school becomes a counter if they schedule the required minimum DI contests for that particular sport. *It will be UND's choice if they want to be a counted in year 1 (2008) or year 2 (2009). *

What is the required minimum number of DI contests for football?

Football: 9
(NCAA Division I Manual: Article 20.9.3.3)


Thanks.
Actually, I think I might be wrong about that.

Bylaw 20.9.7.2.1.1 Reclassifying Opponents I-AA: (20.9.8.2.1.1 in the database)
A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I-AA opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must meet the Division I-AA scheduling requirements (i.e., year two of the reclassifying process).

Also:

Bylaw 20.9.7.2 Football Scheduling Requirement I-AA: (20.9.8.2)
The institution shall schedule and play more than 50 percent of its football games against members of Division I-A or Division I-AA.

And finally:

Bylaw 20.5.2.2.2 First Year
During the first year of reclassification, an institution must satisfy the following requirements:
* (a) Compliance with all minimum contests and participation requirements for sports sponsorship as set forth in Bylaw 20.9.4.3;

Bylaw 20.5.2.2.3 Second Year
During the second year of reclassification, an institution must comply with the following requirements:
* (a) Full compliance with all Division I legislation and membership requirements;


The thing I wonder about is the use of the word "must" in the first bylaw. *Does this mean it doesn't matter what UND's schedule is in 2008; there is no way for them to count as a DI-AA opponent? *It appears that UND must play at least 9 games in 2008 to satisfy the first year requirement and more than 50% of their 2009 schedule must be made up of I-A and I-AA games. *I don't see an option to speed things up, but I'm definitely no expert and I could really use a drink after spending an hour trying to decipher this mess.

[MplsBison]

It means that the second year of the reclassification process (2004 for NDSU, 2008 for UND) is the first year that they count as an I-AA opponent.

[Hammersmith]

It means that the second year of the reclassification process (2004 for NDSU, 2008 for UND) is the first year that they count as an I-AA opponent.

Sorry, I should have included that the bylaws state the progression is: Exploritory Year, First Year, Second Year, Third Year, Fourth Year. That would mean that the Second Year would be 2005 for NDSU and 2009 for UND.

[Bisonguy]

It means that the second year of the reclassification process (2004 for NDSU, 2008 for UND) is the first year that they count as an I-AA opponent.

Sorry, I should have included that the bylaws state the progression is: Exploritory Year, First Year, Second Year, Third Year, Fourth Year. *That would mean that the Second Year would be 2005 for NDSU and 2009 for UND.


Exactly. Just as many of us have stated, 2009 will be the first year that UND will be a counter.

[DIBISON]

It means that the second year of the reclassification process (2004 for NDSU, 2008 for UND) is the first year that they count as an I-AA opponent.

Sorry, I should have included that the bylaws state the progression is: Exploritory Year, First Year, Second Year, Third Year, Fourth Year. *That would mean that the Second Year would be 2005 for NDSU and 2009 for UND.


Exactly. Just as many of us have stated, 2009 will be the first year that UND will be a counter.

Exactly, and that is why many of us have stated that the first Bison-und football game won't be until 2009.

[buffalobill]

It means that the second year of the reclassification process (2004 for NDSU, 2008 for UND) is the first year that they count as an I-AA opponent.

Sorry, I should have included that the bylaws state the progression is: Exploritory Year, First Year, Second Year, Third Year, Fourth Year. *That would mean that the Second Year would be 2005 for NDSU and 2009 for UND.
* *

Exactly. Just as many of us have stated, 2009 will be the first year that UND will be a counter.

Exactly, and that is why many of us have stated that the first Bison-und football game won't be until 2009.
I would like to state for the record that we will probably be playing together before we play against them!!
Revolutionary, YES but something long overdue. Rivalries with our neighboring states or IOWA, WISCONSIN, WYOMING, or NEBRASKA make a lot more sense to me.
HAIL THE FIGHTING BISON!!!!!!!!!!!

[BisonBacker]

It means that the second year of the reclassification process (2004 for NDSU, 2008 for UND) is the first year that they count as an I-AA opponent.

Sorry, I should have included that the bylaws state the progression is: Exploritory Year, First Year, Second Year, Third Year, Fourth Year. *That would mean that the Second Year would be 2005 for NDSU and 2009 for UND.
* *
Exactly. Just as many of us have stated, 2009 will be the first year that UND will be a counter.

Exactly, and that is why many of us have stated that the first Bison-und football game won't be until 2009.
I would like to state for the record that we will probably be playing together before we play against them!!
Revolutionary, YES but something long overdue. Rivalries with our neighboring states or IOWA, WISCONSIN, WYOMING, or NEBRASKA make a lot more sense to me.
HAIL THE FIGHTING BISON!!!!!!!!!!!

When are you going to check into reality????

[buffalobill]

It means that the second year of the reclassification process (2004 for NDSU, 2008 for UND) is the first year that they count as an I-AA opponent.

Sorry, I should have included that the bylaws state the progression is: Exploritory Year, First Year, Second Year, Third Year, Fourth Year. *That would mean that the Second Year would be 2005 for NDSU and 2009 for UND.
* *
Exactly. Just as many of us have stated, 2009 will be the first year that UND will be a counter.

Exactly, and that is why many of us have stated that the first Bison-und football game won't be until 2009.
I would like to state for the record that we will probably be playing together before we play against them!!
Revolutionary, YES but something long overdue. Rivalries with our neighboring states or IOWA, WISCONSIN, WYOMING, or NEBRASKA make a lot more sense to me.
HAIL THE FIGHTING BISON!!!!!!!!!!!

When are you going to check into reality????
Sir(I think), You are so far behind you think you are ahead!

[Swaghook]

Maybe the big bust in Glyndon might dry up his supply of hallucinogenics and he will come back to reality. ::)

[buffalobilljr]

Maybe the big bust in Glyndon might dry up his supply of hallucinogenics and he will come back to reality. ::)
Sir, I ask you to go back under your rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bison007]

I agree with the majority that we don't play und until they ar a d-1 counter so they don't mess up our playoff chances. Playing them next year would not give the rivalry justice. Just imagine if the game was next year. D-1 ndsu vs. d-2 und. Means nothing as far as ruining playoff chances for either team. Still a sold out game but I think it would seem like a forced game lacking the true Bison/Sioux game emotion. Now, imagine a game in '09. Both teams are DI-AA. Packed Fargodome waiting to see for the first time the NEW Bison/Sioux rivalry. Bars around the country are again packed with alumni watching the game to reunite bad blood. Families are once again divided by a few shades of green all to see a new shiney polished rivaly that would no doubt be as big if not bigger then Montana/Montana State in I-AA football. I compare it to this; Larry Bird and Magic Johnson battling for the NCAA title all those years ago. Two of the greatest college basketball players in history. But how much bigger were all the Bird/Johnson matches in the NBA Finals? When both schools are both competing at the same leval again, that is the time to renew what was once the most anticipated Saturday of the year in North Dakota.

[buffalobilljr]

I agree with the majority that we don't play und until they ar a d-1 counter so they don't mess up our playoff chances. Playing them next year would not give the rivalry justice. Just imagine if the game was next year. D-1 ndsu vs. d-2 und. Means nothing as far as ruining playoff chances for either team. Still a sold out game but I think it would seem like a forced game lacking the true Bison/Sioux game emotion. Now, imagine a game in '09. Both teams are DI-AA. Packed Fargodome waiting to see for the first time the NEW Bison/Sioux rivalry. Bars around the country are again packed with alumni watching the game to reunite bad blood. Families are once again divided by a few shades of green all to see a new shiney polished rivaly that would no doubt be as big if not bigger then Montana/Montana State in I-AA football. I compare it to this; Larry Bird and Magic Johnson battling for the NCAA title all those years ago. Two of the greatest college basketball players in history. But how much bigger were all the Bird/Johnson matches in the NBA Finals? When both schools are both competing at the same leval again, that is the time to renew what was once the most anticipated Saturday of the year in North Dakota.
Intrastate rivalries are basically an inefficient use of any states resources, Interstate rivalries are what it's all about!

[Sticks]

I am all for intelligent discussion, but lets not have a selective memory on this.
Two points:
1) In 2004 the DII playoff field was expanded to 24 teams, further minimizing the effect of a loss, regardless of how many points a win or a loss vs. DI-AA, so UND's reasoning to reject NDSU's offer for a home and home series at that time due to the fragile state of their playoff chances is suspect at best.
2) Regardless of the reasoning in FB to not schedule the Bison, how do you explain the fact that UND also refused to schedule (and held a press conference for the express purpose of stating such) the Bison in mens and women's BB, two sports that had virtually no playoff penalties for playing a DI team? *

That to me was pure spite on the part of the UND administation and started the poisoning of the relationship between the schools. *Until a new administration is at place at UND (i.e. Kupchella is gone), I don't see this changing. *

That being said, as a fan, I tend to lean toward scheduling UND sooner rather than later, because I would like to see the two teams play. *But other than some good gates and taking the moral high ground, NDSU has little to gain - it only helps UND in a tough scheduling period and hurts NDSU's recruiting by enabling a main rival get its feet set in DI.

Craig
Why did UND schedule NDSU in baseball in 2005? *This apparently was a sport-by-sport basis....so I can understand why you may have some angst towards certain coaches and administration, but let's not let one bad apple.....

[broke_back_mnt]

You absolutely had no one else to play, couldnt afford to travel, so it seemed worthwhile to make the big magnanimous gesture, that's why. We accepted for the same reasons.

[buffalobill]

You absolutely had no one else to play, couldnt afford to travel, so it seemed worthwhile to make the big magnanimous gesture, that's why. *We accepted for the same reasons.
I feel our partner to the North deserves a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Swaghook]

I feel our partner to the North deserves a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!Are you directionally challenged? Our partner is to the south. UND isn't in D-I yet and even if/when they do move they will not be our partner as they will not be in the Mid-Con with NDSU and SDSU.

[Junior]

[/quote]
Intrastate rivalries are basically an inefficient use of any states resources, Interstate rivalries are what it's all about![/quote]
Better tell that to Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Ohio, Arizona, Michigan, Indiana, Florida, Colorado, Montana, etc. *Just to name a few *::)

[Bisonguy]

Intrastate rivalries are basically an inefficient use of any states resources, Interstate rivalries are what it's all about!
Better tell that to Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Ohio, Arizona, Michigan, Indiana, Florida, Colorado, Montana, etc. *Just to name a few *::)

[buffalobilljr]

Intrastate rivalries are basically an inefficient use of any states resources, Interstate rivalries are what it's all about![/quote]
Better tell that to Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Ohio, Arizona, Michigan, Indiana, Florida, Colorado, Montana, etc. *Just to name a few *::)
[/quote]
That's most of them and naming them doesn't make it right or efficient. Everyhting boils down to does it make business sense or not.
Thank you for shopping at K-Mart
P.S. I think you screwed up on OHIO. Sorry!!!!!!
Possibly Indiana also if you are doing University vs. State University. Again sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Swaghook]

Thank you for shopping at K-Mart
Your vision for the future must have been a blue light special. ;D

[buffalobilljr]

Thank you for shopping at K-Mart
Your vision for the future must have been a blue light special. ;D
That's better than your heritage of being conceived in a red light district!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lucchesicourt]

Come on Bison fans. I know UND may have nistreated you guys in the past, but at some point it needs to be forgiven and forgotten. You guys have the class to let by gones be bygones. They will be in our conference in all probability, and you will have to play them then. So, what is wrong with playing them now. I really don't see how it could hurt your playoff opportunities when you have NONE. (nor do we until next year). NDSU and its fans are CLASS, and you guys just need to be bigger and better than UND. I believe a good group of interstate and intrastate rivalries will be good for ALL of the Dakota schools financially, and the sooner the better!!!

[Junior]

Intrastate rivalries are basically an inefficient use of any states resources, Interstate rivalries are what it's all about!
Better tell that to Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Ohio, Arizona, Michigan, Indiana, Florida, Colorado, Montana, etc. *Just to name a few *::)
[/quote]
That's most of them and naming them doesn't make it right or efficient. Everyhting boils down to does it make business sense or not.
Thank you for shopping at K-Mart
P.S. I think you screwed up on OHIO. Sorry!!!!!!
Possibly Indiana also if you are doing University vs. State University. Again sorry!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

So per your theory there should only be 50 universities total? Please explain to me how that is more efficient. Your argument would create a larger athletic budget period. Your efficiency argument just doesn't hold water so again, please explain.

[buffalobill]

Intrastate rivalries are basically an inefficient use of any states resources, Interstate rivalries are what it's all about!
Better tell that to Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Ohio, Arizona, Michigan, Indiana, Florida, Colorado, Montana, etc. *Just to name a few *::)

That's most of them and naming them doesn't make it right or efficient. Everyhting boils down to does it make business sense or not.
Thank you for shopping at K-Mart
P.S. I think you screwed up on OHIO. Sorry!!!!!!
Possibly Indiana also if you are doing University vs. State University. Again sorry!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

So per your theory there should only be 50 universities total? *Please explain to me how that is more efficient. *Your argument would create a larger athletic budget period. *Your efficiency argument just doesn't hold water so again, please explain. *
[/quote]
In the main that's not a bad idea, we probably have to many schools nationwide let alone in North Dakota, budgets would go down not up as each one would have an opportunity to streamline and put athletics back in some sort of reasonable perspective, my argument has an impervious membrane so it can hold water, and I'm glad that there are other people that recognize that they are a junior, also. I am very proud of the fact that I share my Father's name. Hail the Fighting Bison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sambini]

CAN,T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG +++++++++++=

[Junior]

What does my user name have to do with anything? Saying your argument is impervious does nothing to support it.

I'm going to stop this now because I know I won't get anywhere with it. You say there are all these big grand plans to combine UND and NDSU and yet I have seen nothing to support it. I certainly won't believe it until I see some evidence. If anyone has some, I'm listening...

AND, for the record, my name is not the same as my dad's name. My user name is a nickname. I find it unoriginal and annoying to name you child the same name as yourself. Just my opinion.

[Junior]

CAN,T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG +++++++++++=


I love you guys! ;D ;D ;D

[Junior]

What does my user name have to do with anything? *Saying your argument is impervious does nothing to support it. *

I'm going to stop this now because I know I won't get anywhere with it. *You say there are all these big grand plans to combine UND and NDSU and yet I have seen nothing to support it. * I certainly won't believe it until I see some evidence. *If anyone has some, I'm listening...

AND, for the record, my name is not the same as my dad's name. *My user name is a nickname. *I find it unoriginal and annoying to name you child the same name as yourself. *Just my opinion. *

OK so I read some other posts. *At this point it is just a vision. *One I do not agree with. *I will leave it at that.

[MRBISON]

I for one am 100% against playing und until they make the move to D1...we should not play them when there is still some skepticism about whether or not they will be able to make the move (financially)...and we should not play them when they are in transition.

Some say it can't hurt as long as NDSU is in transition and not playoff eligible. I disagree.....for a few reasons

1. If the stars line up and by some miracle UND wins...it hurts NDSU's program in terms of recruiting

2. The possibility of an NDSU player sustaining an injury that could jeopardize their ability to play in a year that NDSU is playoff eligible is always there

3. Playing und will only help them gain exposure and make their transition easier...why would we want to help them?

Bottom line...NDSU should focus on scheduling D1 opponents and finding a conference. If and when und is able to make the move then we'll talk...remember und burnt the bridges in this situation ...not NDSU...yeah it might be petty, but oh well...und will just have to deal with it...NDSU should be calling the shots and remebering who has been with them during this bumpy ride (SDSU) ..not und

[lucchesicourt]

Then, why should a D1A team schedule NDSU? The D1A team has NOTHING to gain and eveything to lose. Sort of the same argument youre making against scheduling UND. Also, you too are in transition, so why would any other D1AA team want to schedule you until you are done with the transition period. Your arguments seem to say, it's okay for us to be in transition and we should be afforded the opportunity to schedule 1AA powers as well as 1A teams, but UND should not be awarded the same opportunities. Seems you have too much hatred towards UND.

[Scooter]

I for one am 100% against playing und until they make the move to D1...we should not play them when there is still some skepticism about whether or not they will be able to make the move (financially)...and we should not play them when they are in transition.

Some say it can't hurt as long as NDSU is in transition and not playoff eligible. I disagree.....for a few reasons

1. If the stars line up and by some miracle UND wins...it hurts NDSU's program in terms of recruiting

2. The possibility of an NDSU player sustaining an injury that could jeopardize their ability to play in a year that NDSU is playoff eligible is always there

3. Playing und will only help them gain exposure and make their transition easier...why would we want to help them?

Bottom line...NDSU should focus on scheduling D1 opponents and finding a conference. If and when und is able to make the move then we'll talk...remember und burnt the bridges in this situation ...not NDSU...yeah it might be petty, but oh well...und will just have to deal with it...NDSU should be calling the shots and remebering who has been with them during this bumpy ride (SDSU) ..not und

UND has to much at stake to back away now. *There is literally no chance that UND will elect to stay in DII, especially after the reasons that Kupchella gave for the move. *They would look like idiots if they did.

1. Why are you guys so scared of playing UND? *I want to see this game happen because I miss it. *UND has announced their intentions (exactly the way we did, by the way) now, let's play the game. *All I keep reading on this site, especially after the announcement, is "let's jump to IA in football" *It gives the impression that NDSU doesn't want anything to do with UND on the feild. *If our players are REALLY improved like everyone says (and confirmed by what I have witnessed on the feild the past two years) then, what's the problem.

2. *Possibility of sustaining injuries?!?! *You have this whoever you play so how the heck can that be a reason?

3. *Playing them and kicking their ass will put and end to this debate and show all of the incoming recruits just how much further the NDSU progam is than UND. *Why would a recruit want to go to UND if they get taken to the woodshed by NDSU unless the kid feels that he can't truly compete for a starting job at NDSU? *Personally, I don't want those kids anyway- if you think that you are going to fail, you are.

Like I have said before, NDSU should schedule UND for a home game in 2007. *They shoulod allow the teammakers and alumni sole access to tickets for this game until three days before the contest. *Allow the students to sign up for this game so that we know how many students to plan for (your sororitiies and fraternities and student government can help with this it's about time that they actually did something useful) *Make sure the band is ready to go (sorry UND, no room for your band as space will be at a premium.)Put a minimum of 17000+ screaming NDSU fans in the seats and give an allotment of 10 tickets to the und fans. *Who the hell cares if they are allowed to go to the game? *They can watch it on TV. *Remember, other teams have done this kind of stuff (Iowa fans, buy a U of M-Iowa ticket, get an NDSU ticket for free.)

[IowaBison]

You know it would be an interesting idea to give Team Makers first dibs on additional tickets to the first Sioux-Bison game.

Something like 1 ticket for every hundred dollars given........

[Junior]

Then, why should a D1A team schedule NDSU? The D1A team has NOTHING to gain and eveything to lose. *Sort of the same argument youre making against scheduling UND. *Also, you too are in transition, so why would any other D1AA team want to schedule you until you are done with the transition period. *Your arguments seem to say, it's okay for us to be in transition and we should be afforded the opportunity to schedule 1AA powers as well as 1A teams, but UND should not be awarded the same opportunities. *Seems you have too much hatred towards UND.

A 1A team can count one win over a 1AA every year towards bowl eligibility. Not comparing apples to apples when comparing the 1A BCS to 1AA playoff system.

[broke_back_mnt]

Who hates Und? *Just because many of us think there is no basis for a relationship, including a game of football its tranlated into hate? *Thats extreme, and exhibits some desperation and frustration with your position. *

NDSU shouldnt play Und. *Und is not deserving of a relationship with NDSU based on the history. *Just the past few years we have seen examples of Und institutional behavior toward NDSU. *Not good. *Your simply not a deserving bunch. *Sorry. *But hey we like you and will tell all of our friends THEY should play you! * :)

I think a game might be considered in the future, but let it rest for a decade or more, or until we are in the same conference. *Then lets take a look at the situation, how Und has been behaving, and our other options at that time. *If they will agree to our terms then maybe? *But right now no.

Certainly a neutral uniform will be required! ;)

[Scooter]

You know it would be an interesting idea to give Team Makers first dibs on additional tickets to the first Sioux-Bison game.

Something like 1 ticket for every hundred dollars given........



And, wouldn't it be poetic justice if you had UND fans become teammakers- supporting NDSU domination just for the chance to get tickets to the game. It's a huge win win for NDSU ;)

[lakesbison]

once again.. another BS attempt to get NDSU and UND together.. SHUT UP ALREADY!!


"1. Why are you guys so scared of playing UND??"

YOU ARE NOT GONNA USE THAT PSYCHOLOGY ON US!!

we see thru that BS !!!

We arent' scared of a Division 2 school in anything..

BUT PLLLLLLLLLLLLEASE... quit tryin to goat us into playin that gay lil school..


NDSU left UND behind in 2002 and will continue to do so..

SHUT UP ALREADY!! ALL OF U THAT TRY TO TALK US OUTTA THIS!!!

[roadwarrior]

Whats nice about this thread is that we have about zero say in whether it happens or not or when it starts.

[Scooter]

Who hates Und? *Just because many of us think there is no basis for a relationship, including a game of football its tranlated into hate? *Thats extreme, and exhibits some desperation and frustration with your position. *

NDSU shouldnt play Und. *Und is not deserving of a relationship with NDSU based on the history. *Just the past few years we have seen examples of Und institutional behavior toward NDSU. *Not good. *Your simply not a deserving bunch. *Sorry. *But hey we like you and will tell all of our friends THEY should play you! * :)

I think a game might be considered in the future, but let it rest for a decade or more, or until we are in the same conference. *Then lets take a look at the situation, how Und has been behaving, and our other options at that time. *If they will agree to our terms then maybe? *But right now no.

Certainly a neutral uniform will be required! *;)



JBB, I agree that the behavior of UND hasn't been above board or ethical. They do have a Law school, what do you expect? But, facts are facts: NDSU and UND by being in a small state like North Dakota are going to be forever linked together in this rivalry. Our argument was, "until you jump to IAA, we will not consider you as an opponent." Now, you suggest that we wait a decade or so?!? I know that you hate UND with every breath you take, but come on, now 10 years or so? I think you are letting this cloud better judgement. I know you don't fear them, but sometimes the posts on this board sure give that impression.

[Scooter]

Lakesbison, you keep saying shut up about UND, yet your personal text mentions them every time you post.


Sioux who, never heard of them.

Obviously, you care about them more than you wish to admit. *I want to play the game because I have a lot of relatives that are UND fans and... this may shock you, we enjoyed the banter back and forth over the years. *Another shocker for you is this fact,

Most UND grads that I know are just like most NDSU grads I know...Good people. *

[Bisonguy]

Whats nice about this thread is that we have about zero say in whether it happens or not or when it starts.


Isn't that the case with about 97% of the threads on here??

[BisonMav]

Whats nice about this thread is that we have about zero say in whether it happens or not or when it starts.


Isn't that the case with about 97% of the threads on here??

LakesBison makes the other 3% happen ;)

[semobison]

Scooter, Kudos to you, we have some fans with deep resentments twords UND. Maybe we can get them some counseling or something. All I know there is a lot of people who miss this rivalry, and SDSU although gaining momentum will NEVER be like the 100 years of Bison-Sioux!

[BisonMav]

Scooter, Kudos to you, we have some fans with deep resentments twords UND. Maybe we can get them some counseling or something. All I know there is a lot of people who miss this rivalry, and SDSU although gaining momentum will NEVER be like the 100 years of Bison-Sioux!

I can name at least 25 I-AA teams I would want to see at the dome before UND.
Nothing to do with resentments, just want to see some different teams.

[Scooter]

Scooter, Kudos to you, we have some fans with deep resentments twords UND. Maybe we can get them some counseling or something. All I know there is a lot of people who miss this rivalry, and SDSU although gaining momentum will NEVER be like the 100 years of Bison-Sioux!

I can name at least 25 I-AA teams I would want to see at the dome before UND. *
Nothing to do with resentments, just want to see some different teams.

I can live with that answer.

[broke_back_mnt]

Im not resentful either. *Im with Gil and Im just saying hey its time to move on. *




JBB, I agree that the behavior of UND hasn't been above board or ethical. *They do have a Law school, what do you expect? *But, facts are facts: NDSU and UND by being in a small state like North Dakota are going to be forever linked together in this rivalry. *Our argument was, "until you jump to IAA, we will not consider you as an opponent." *Now, you suggest that we wait a decade or so?!? *I know that you hate UND with every breath you take, but come on, now 10 years or so? *I think you are letting this cloud better judgement. *I know you don't fear them, but sometimes the posts on this board sure give that impression.


Good one about the law school! * ;D *

It is my firm belief that NDSU is better off without an association with them. *My judgment is sound. *The question remains how sound is the judgment of those that ignore the past? *Our energies are much better spent on forging new relationships. *No sense in good money after bad.

Maybe over the course of time the nature of the relationship will change. *If that happens I could see renewed competition. *Ten years is just a guess. *I cant predict Unds behavior.

By moving up to the same division as NDSU Unds wish will come true eventually. *They will be back on NDSUs schedule at least for 1 game, but when? *Genes comments kind of hint at conditions. *I suggest these conditions be met for GWFC affiliation and or single game event status:

1) *They actually move to D1 someday
2) *Their academic standards are fully compliant with D1
3) *They have the full scholarships allowed by DI-AA in place for 2 yrs
4) *They comply fully with NCAA championship event standards.
5) *An official apology is issued by the Und presidents office for Unds official objection, and behavior, surrounding NDSUs (insert infraction here). *I am going to insert "Name change from NDAC". * :D

[lucchesicourt]

What I'm gathering is, you guys would rather see the demise of the GWFC rather than play UND. Afterall, they would be the 6th team and begin the process of the GWFC as an autobid conference. Because if they were in the conference you would be required to play them.
As for a win over a D1AA by a 1A team does NOT always count towards a BCS win. A D1A team, if they do beat UCD, will not count as a BCS win. As for NDSU, I also believe a win over you guys will not count either until you have had the proper number of schollies for 3 years. This will be your 3rd year of transition. This will be the first year a win could possible count towards a BCS win. You need to average something like 56 1/2 schollies over 3 years for a victory over a D1AA team to count as a BCS win. The number of scholies may be a little higher or lower (I'm not sure of the exact number of schollies, but it is more than you had as a D2). But, did NDSU have enough schollies in their first year of transition? If not, a win over NDSU does not count as a BCS win.
Same situation as UND!

[BisonMav]

What I'm gathering is, you guys would rather see the demise of the GWFC rather than play UND. *Afterall, they would be the 6th team and begin the process of the GWFC as an autobid conference. Because if they were in the conference you would be required to play them.
As for a win over a D1AA by a 1A team does NOT always count towards a BCS win. *A D1A team, if they do beat UCD, will not count as a BCS win. *As for NDSU, I also believe a win over you guys will not count either until you have had the proper number of schollies for 3 years. *This will be your 3rd year of transition. *This will be the first year a win could possible count towards a BCS win. * You need to average something like 56 1/2 schollies over 3 years for a victory over a D1AA team to count as a BCS win. *The number of scholies may be a little higher or lower (I'm not sure of the exact number of schollies, but it is more than you had as a D2). *But, did NDSU have enough schollies in their first year of transition? If not, a win over NDSU does not count as a BCS win.
Same situation as UND!

UND will be in the conference in a few years. Then they will be on the schedule. I don't care about them counting or not. More interested in seeing Georgia Southern, Montana St, UCD, Poly etc coming to Fargo right now. Would like to see teams like McNeese St, Delaware, James Madison, Colgate, App St, UNI, S Illinois, Illinois St, etc.

[broke_back_mnt]

Actually, Criterion #1, #2 and #4 are required by Division I before anybody can even be a member.
#3 would assure the rest of the GWFC they were serious and wouldnt be filling their schedules with DIIs etc. #5 was just for fun.

[Gamehunter]

What I'm gathering is, you guys would rather see the demise of the GWFC rather than play UND. Afterall, they would be the 6th team and begin the process of the GWFC as an autobid conference. Because if they were in the conference you would be required to play them.
As for a win over a D1AA by a 1A team does NOT always count towards a BCS win. A D1A team, if they do beat UCD, will not count as a BCS win. As for NDSU, I also believe a win over you guys will not count either until you have had the proper number of schollies for 3 years. This will be your 3rd year of transition. This will be the first year a win could possible count towards a BCS win. You need to average something like 56 1/2 schollies over 3 years for a victory over a D1AA team to count as a BCS win. The number of scholies may be a little higher or lower (I'm not sure of the exact number of schollies, but it is more than you had as a D2). But, did NDSU have enough schollies in their first year of transition? If not, a win over NDSU does not count as a BCS win.
Same situation as UND!


Look, here's the deal. Even with UND as a 6th member we are NOT going to see an autobid for the GWFC unless the NCAA expands the playoff fields. period. I would think it would be very hard for the NCAA to basically take away an autobid from the OVC or MEAC just because the GWFC is far superior in strength. The GWFC is new, unstable, and geographically spread out in comparison to every conference that now recieves an autobid in DI-AA football. Furthermore, it is going to take 10+ years just to get the autobid anyway by NCAA standards based on the number of core members needed to even be considered for one and the time they have to spend as core members in said conference. If someday the Great West autobid happens, fine. But for now I really don't think it is something to get worked up about at all.

As far as UND being on NDSU's schedule, it is going to happen someday. We may or may not have a 2007 game, but I would bet many Ben Franklins on not having a 2008 game no matter what the rest of the Great West Football Conference does. If UCD wants to schedule them in '08 thats cool, but they wont be in the GWFC and on the Bison schedule.

[MplsBison]

UND and USD will be in the Great West for the 2009 season and that will likely be the first year they're back on NDSU's schedule.

That's fine with me. Hopefully they'll have their scholarships up in the 50s by then.


The Great West can be considered for an autobid in 2010 if we can get Western Ill. over.


I think that should be a main goal of the GWFC administration and membership.



Western isn't getting into the MVC, that much is given. They were kicked out for a reason and they're not getting back in.

The Gateway is going to lose Western Kentucky and Youngstown as well, so the league is basically going to be down to SIU.

The GWFC will have a higher GPI than the Gateway.


Western should at least give joining the GWFC some real consideration and I could see them doing it.

[DIBISON]

UND and USD will be in the Great West for the 2009 season and that will likely be the first year they're back on NDSU's schedule.

That's fine with me. Hopefully they'll have their scholarships up in the 50s by then.


The Great West can be considered for an autobid in 2010 if we can get Western Ill. over.


I think that should be a main goal of the GWFC administration and membership.



Western isn't getting into the MVC, that much is given. They were kicked out for a reason and they're not getting back in.

The Gateway is going to lose Western Kentucky and Youngstown as well, so the league is basically going to be down to SIU.

The GWFC will have a higher GPI than the Gateway.


Western should at least give joining the GWFC some real consideration and I could see them doing it.

What are we doing talking about 2009 and beyond? Time to put this to rest isn't it?

[sambini]

CROOKSTONS NICKNAME IS THE GOLDEN EAGLES

[SDbison]

Actually,if another DII NCC team goes DI it will most likely be St Cloud State, not USD. Then UND can partner up with them. USD is in no financial shape to support DI and if SDSU thinks they had issues with alumni there is no way USD can make the move.

[MplsBison]

Saint Cloud is not moving. They already expressed interest in joining the NSIC if the NCC folds.

USD, on the other hand, is studying a potential move.


I think UND will drag USD kicking and screaming with them in the transition.


It'd be hard enough for UND to sell itself all the way up near Canada without a travel partner. We know, we already went through that.

[roadwarrior]

If some of these other NCC teams mentioned (SCSU, USD, UNO) also move up to D-I there is a good possibility that there will be a very bumpy road for them in the future. Instead of moving because that is the direction that they have for the university, they are playing follow the leaders (NDSU, SDSU, UNC) who all made the move because they wanted to.

[Bison_Dan]

If some of these other NCC teams mentioned (SCSU, USD, UNO) also move up to D-I there is a good possibility that there will be a very bumpy road for them in the future. *Instead of moving because that is the direction that they have for the university, they are playing follow the leaders (NDSU, SDSU, UNC) who all made the move because they wanted to.

That's exactly right, these teams are following NDSU & SDSU in the DI thinking that if they can do it why not us. I think the danger here is that NDSU is making it look easy. SCSU & usd don't have the money for the move and them with und don't have the 100% commitment from the administration. I don't know why everone thinks that usd and scsu will move up to DI when they don't even have the full scholarships in their sports for dii. Doesn't make sense to me.

[sambini]

ROAD YOU RIGHT ON++++++++++++++

[MplsBison]

SCSU only has 20 something for football. I think USD has 30 something though. I know the NCC has a minimum of 30 something.


To say that USD doesn't have the money to move DI is the same thing as saying that the government of South Dakota doesn't have the money to build a new highway.



It's the government.

Not "having enough money" has never stopped a government project.

[MRBISON]

Scooter....
No bison fan is ever scared of playing the sue.....so where you pulled that out of, I will never know.

second....yeah sustaining injuries is part of every game...but why risk it against teams like und?....having said that, I am also against playing teams like Concordia....NDSU should focus on scheduling D1 opponents

third....I don't agree that simply beating und will ever end any debate. They are full of excuses up North and they aren't afraid to use them.. no matter how ridiculous.

Anyway...I understand that some want to play und because of the dollars involved. I also understand that it is going to happen eventually.

the one point that I want to make is that NDSU should remember... is that NDSU should be calling the shots...not und....the game should happen when NDSU says it will happen..period

[broke_back_mnt]

Your absolutely right MRBISON.

Already agreed upon is home field, the Fabulous Fargo Dome of course!

It has been strongly agreed the guarantee should be bus fare (round trip, minimum party) and a light lunch,

Because of the rules they have to move up first.

NDSU is a member in good standing of the NCAA. *Its only right that we support the Principle of Rules Compliance as put forth in the NCAA D1 Manual and insist that they abide by all rules and regulations of the NCAA. *To achieve single game event status for the Fabulous Fargo Dome they must be nickname compliant for NCAA championship events , or, of course, wear what we like to call a "neutral jersey"!

Naturally, as Dr. Taylor has already indicated, they must prove they are academically compliant with the NCAA Division I rules. *This is of course a necessary condition for application, as is rules compliance.

I think they should also be at full scholarships for at least 3 years to eliminate, as much as possible, any excuses.

These conditions are reasonable, and in fact many if not most are required by the NCAA anyway. *

Is there anything Im missing?

[Scooter]

Scooter....
No bison fan is ever scared of playing the sue.....so where you pulled that out of, I will never know.

second....yeah sustaining injuries is part of every game...but why risk it against teams like und?....having said that, I am also against playing teams like Concordia....NDSU should focus on scheduling D1 opponents

third....I don't agree that simply beating und will ever end any debate. They are full of excuses up North and they aren't afraid to use them.. no matter how ridiculous.

Anyway...I understand that some want to play und because of the dollars involved. I also understand that it is going to happen eventually.

the one point that I want to make is that NDSU should remember... is that NDSU should be calling the shots...not und....the game should happen when NDSU says it will happen..period
MRBISON,

First- good for you, you're not scared. * Blah, blah, blah...neither am I so let's play the game as soon as they make the move (and it won't affect us in playoffs). *With all the talk of jumping IA immediately following UND's announcement (the IA move posting rate doubled for a time after, BTW), how any rational guy reading these post would think that this comment was "pulled out of somewhere" is comical. *Obviously, I hit a nerve- a little introspection may be in order.

Second, why risk injuries against UND? *When we do play them it will be when they are IAA and won't hurt our playoff chances. *So... *your statement earlier "why risk it on a team like und?" *sounds a little pompus if you ask me. *Besides, your potential for injury against UND is less than against a bigger, quicker, more tallented team like Geogia Southern. *Now don't misunderstand me- I want to play the Geogia Southerns of IAA, It's just I think this particular argument for not playing und is ridiculous.

Third, *Beating them on the feild is the ONLY WAY to shut them up. *If you aren't afraid, and I know you aren't, what a better way to do it? *

Anyway, I couldn't give a crap about the extra bucks that 3500 extra tickets would bring. *In 2 years or so we could be averaging 16000 a game anyway. *As, I have stated before I miss the bantering with my in-laws. *Yeah I love it when we win. *In the grand scheme of everyday life with my family, who cares. *

Yes, we are in a position to call the shots, good for us. *We should call the shots.


JBB- I disagree with your three years of full scholorships to eliminate any excuses reasoning. *Now, follow me on this for a minute. *I don't want us to give UND a free pass recruiting kids for those 4 to 5 years that this may take. *I want us to show every HS recruit just how large a gap there is between the two schools as soon as possible. *This will only help recruiting for NDSU. *How can this be a bad thing?

[BisBison]

I'm guessing the sue will be a member of the Great West Football Conference the year after they complete their exploritory year. Which means like it or not, we will have to play them in football, probably in 2008. In BBall and the other sports, I think they will be independents for awhile, so we would have a choice whether to play them or not. After all the BS coming from their admin of late, I personally don't care to ever play them again in any sport. I'd rather just forget them like a bad dream.

[broke_back_mnt]

So Scooter, your suggesting we abandon our D1 scheduling timetable and make a spot for no charge? *We have scheduling obligations and goals for Division I. *They haven't even met the first requirement: *MOVE TO D1.

No, we need some conditions in place. *Its their tab.

Ps. *The sue arent going any place until they comply with all D1 rules and regulations. *The D1 NCAA Manual says as much.

Pss. * What did you think about the rest of the conditions?

Psss. Scooter, I perfectly understand your wanting to kick their ass as soon as possible! 8-)

[ralph]

Play UNoDak after their exploratory D-I year and every year after.

[Scooter]

So Scooter, your suggesting we abandon our D1 scheduling timetable and make a spot for no charge? *We have scheduling obligations and goals for Division I. *They haven't even met the first requirement: *MOVE TO D1.

No, we need some conditions in place. *Its their tab.

Ps. *The sue arent going any place until they comply with all D1 rules and regulations. *The D1 NCAA Manual says as much.

Pss. * What did you think about the rest of the conditions?

Psss. *Scooter, I perfectly understand your wanting to kick their ass as soon as possible! * 8-)

What do I think of your conditions? If what you say about the NCAA regulations are true, for argument sake I'll defer until other info comes to light, most of these issues should take care of themselves before my condition (not affecting us in playoffs) can ever be a factor.

As far as not recieving much $$$ to play at the dome, I'd be most happy if we worked a deal where they had to pay us for the legitimacy it will give to their fledgling IAA progam.

[BisonBacker]

There is another thread on this board that speaks to this subject among others. Cabis is the author and he has it exactly right. Why would we want to make this move easy for the whioux? You need to read that post by cabis and you will understand and that is the reason I say we don't schedule them period!

[Gamehunter]

UND and USD will be in the Great West for the 2009 season and that will likely be the first year they're back on NDSU's schedule.

That's fine with me. Hopefully they'll have their scholarships up in the 50s by then.


The Great West can be considered for an autobid in 2010 if we can get Western Ill. over.


I think that should be a main goal of the GWFC administration and membership.



Western isn't getting into the MVC, that much is given. They were kicked out for a reason and they're not getting back in.

The Gateway is going to lose Western Kentucky and Youngstown as well, so the league is basically going to be down to SIU.

The GWFC will have a higher GPI than the Gateway.


Western should at least give joining the GWFC some real consideration and I could see them doing it.

First of all, USD hasn't even indicated like they want to go DI.
Secondly, if WKU or Y-Town leave the Gateway, I would bet NDSU jumps that direction in a heartbeat.
Thirdly, SIU is NOT a powerhouse in the Gateway or even anywhere near contemplating I-A for that matter. They had 1 championship run in the 80 and their last 3 seasons have been decent with Sambursky and Whitlock being the big guns, but other than that they have been a mediocre team at best.
Fourthly, WIU has no reason why it would want to jump ship on the Gateway and go to an unstable, spread out newbie conference without an autobid.
UNI used to be a NCC foe back in the day. Renewing that rivalry would be great.

[Scooter]

There is another thread on this board that speaks to this subject among others. *Cabis is the author and he has it exactly right. *Why would we want to make this move easy for the whioux? *You need to read that post by cabis and you will understand and that is the reason I say we don't schedule them period!

Read it, a well thought out piece of work. I just don't happen to agree with the premise of not ever playing them again. Read my post reguarding kicking UND's ass soundly on the field and the effect it will have in recruiting VS UND and you'll get a better picture of where I am coming from. Remember, I have always said, don't schedule until it will have no negative effect on our post season chances.

[broke_back_mnt]

Just for the record Im on the never play again side. Its also highly unlikely that will be the case. Put it off as long as possible and extract every single concession you can otherwise no deal.

[Scooter]

Just for the record Im on the never play again side. *Its also highly unlikely that will be the case. *Put it off as long as possible and extract every single concession you can otherwise no deal.

JBB, you had me fooled :D

That's OK, I agree with you a lot more than disagree.

[MplsBison]

First of all, USD hasn't even indicated like they want to go DI.
Secondly, if WKU or Y-Town leave the Gateway, I would bet NDSU jumps that direction in a heartbeat.
Thirdly, SIU is NOT a powerhouse in the Gateway or even anywhere near contemplating I-A for that matter. They had 1 championship run in the 80 and their last 3 seasons have been decent with Sambursky and Whitlock being the big guns, but other than that they have been a mediocre team at best.
Fourthly, WIU has no reason why it would want to jump ship on the Gateway and go to an unstable, spread out newbie conference without an autobid.
UNI used to be a NCC foe back in the day. Renewing that rivalry would be great.

X, man, you're just rubber stamping the status quo.

Stop playing it so safe. Have some vision.


UND is going to drag USD with them through the DI transition. That much is a given. At least in my mind.


I feel that at this time NDSU and SDSU are going to be committed to two conferences: the Great West and the Mid Con. Those are sort've like our babies. We want to nurture them into powerhouses and make them our own.

There is no reason we can't make the GWFC rival or even exceed the ability of the Gateway. Esp. with Davis and Poly. Who knows maybe SUU will turn things around too. But not until they increase scholarships.


SIU would be a natural fit for the MAC and as a rival for NIU.

They were ranked #1 in the GPI in 2004 (but they lost to EWU in the first round of the playoffs). They always went to the playoffs last year.

They're a very solid team that has everything going for them if they wanted to move to the MAC.


If those three teams leave, I could seriously see Western giving some thought to jumping ship. Esp. if the Mid Con brass put some pressure on them to join up with the other Mid Con schools.


That's my line of thinking, anyway.


I don't just rubber stamp the statue quo.

[Mr._Bill]

MPLS . . . you are entitled to your own opinion, just like the rest of us. I just wish you wouldn't type everything that crosses your mind, especially out on AGS. I don't want the entire Gateway conference to assume/think that Bison fan are arrogant. I know that you have all the conference transactions figured out through 2020, but we haven't earned anything yet.

[MplsBison]

My intentions are never anything like that.

People can think what they want.


The majority of online bison fans are not like me and they will see that if they read them.

[MRBISON]

Scooter...
No...you didn't hit a nerve...I have never posted any support in NDSU moving to a D1A classification ......others may have, but I haven't........... either before or after und's announcement. So again, where you are getting this stuff....who knows...I have only posted support for playing D1 teams instead of having D2 teams on the schedule

yeah..I hear your arguement for playing und, and I know it's going to happen...so whenever the game is played the debate can be over, and that's fine....

[imported_admin]

once again.. another BS attempt to get NDSU and UND together.. SHUT UP ALREADY!!


"1. Why are you guys so scared of playing UND??"

YOU ARE NOT GONNA USE THAT PSYCHOLOGY ON US!!

we see thru that BS !!!

We arent' scared of a Division 2 school in anything..

BUT PLLLLLLLLLLLLEASE... quit tryin to goat us into playin that gay lil school..


NDSU left UND behind in 2002 and will continue to do so..

SHUT UP ALREADY!! ALL OF U THAT TRY TO TALK US OUTTA THIS!!!


Note from Admin: LakesBison, any more posts like this will result in a banning.

[lakesbison]

sorry for voicing my opinions.. some of which MANY MANY people at NDSU agree with...

Sorry it wasn't "Politically Correct" but... its how I feel and many others do.

and Im sick of all the TALK about it on this BISON website..

no need to ban someone for that..

thanks

[NanoBison]

Don't worry lakesbison, there are quite a few of us, who are in no way interested to play the Whouix? ... Ever again ...

[RedRiver]

+++++++++++