We are no longer have a power game.

[gumby013]

Every running play is a zone scheme. We don't have zone personnel.

STOP IT AND GO BACK TO THE SCHEMES THAT GOT US HERE!

[westnodak93bison]

Every running play is a zone scheme. We don't have zone personnel.

STOP IT AND GO BACK TO THE SCHEMES THAT GOT US HERE!
Are we really running all zone scheme blocking? I'm serious cause I can't tell. All I know is it is not working well enough.

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[CentennialBison]

Are we really running all zone scheme blocking? I'm serious cause I can't tell. All I know is it is not working well enough.

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For the most part it looks like zone blocking. The reason we were so good is the power is hard to defend against. Although not exact this is a good video of the changes-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBqXxTwVQYg

[DjKyRo]

I find it absolutely baffling that Polasek always pumped the power run and the "shove it down their throats" mentality yet we seem to never see that kind of playcalling with him as OC. What happened?

[NDSUstudent]

I find it absolutely baffling that Polasek always pumped the power run and the "shove it down their throats" mentality yet we seem to never see that kind of playcalling with him as OC. What happened?

Crockett graduated....

[Kevin]

It was really strange to me to see a Bison team lining up in shotgun on 2nd and goal from the three.

[NDSUstudent]

Our longest rush in two games is 12 yards...that is just sad.

[tolnabison]

Crockett graduated....

Agreed. Plus Morlock and Frazier are one speed runners. Their 5 yard runs are Ojuri and Crockets 10 to 20 yarders. Morlock is a FB. Next year we lose Cyre and Bonnet, we need a FB. He's the guy IMO.

[Bisonwinagn]

I find it absolutely baffling that Polasek always pumped the power run and the "shove it down their throats" mentality yet we seem to never see that kind of playcalling with him as OC. What happened?

Carson Wentz happened!!!!! Everyone got poopy dick and forgot how to run an offense because they have an NFL potential player. They've put 100% of the offense on him and forgot it's a team game and now can only win based on CW having a great game. It's a horrible horrible change in philosophy that has already cost them 2 losses.

[tolnabison]

Carson Wentz happened!!!!! Everyone got poopy dick and forgot how to run an offense because they have an NFL potential player. They've put 100% of the offense on him and forgot it's a team game and now can only win based on CW having a great game. It's a horrible horrible change in philosophy that has already cost them 2 losses.
We hard Carson last year? I think it's our RB situation. No difference maker, a lot of rotation, no one gets stronger and in a rhythm as the game goes. One guy needs to separate himself, or the staff needs to give a guy an opportunity for a guy to separate himself.

[NDSUstudent]

Carson Wentz happened!!!!! Everyone got poopy dick and forgot how to run an offense because they have an NFL potential player. They've put 100% of the offense on him and forgot it's a team game and now can only win based on CW having a great game. It's a horrible horrible change in philosophy that has already cost them 2 losses.

Well if Carson is the horse you are going to ride, the coaches certainly weren't riding him today. Run...run...pass....punt....run...run...pass...pun t.

[MinotBison]

Every running play is a zone scheme. We don't have zone personnel.

STOP IT AND GO BACK TO THE SCHEMES THAT GOT US HERE!

Are we trying to fit the proverbial square peg (power blocking personnel) into a round (zone blocking personnel) hole?

[CAS4127]

Well if Carson is the horse you are going to ride, the coaches certainly weren't riding him today. Run...run...pass....punt....run...run...pass...pun t.

That's Polasek.


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[HerdBot]

We hard Carson last year? I think it's our RB situation. No difference maker, a lot of rotation, no one gets stronger and in a rhythm as the game goes. One guy needs to separate himself, or the staff needs to give a guy an opportunity for a guy to separate himself.


Whatever happened to our whole we own the 4th quarter mentality and wear teams out? The only team that wears out in the 4th is in Green and Gold. I think we could establish a RB if we go back to more of the old school I formation stuff with a fullback. In the 4th quarter those short runs will go long

[gumby013]

Are we trying to fit the proverbial square peg (power blocking personnel) into a round (zone blocking personnel) hole?

That's part of it, but the power game is something that made us different. Almost every other team runs zone schemes. It's a whole lot easier for them to defend if they are familiar with it.

[NDSUstudent]

That's Polasek.


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Agreed

I love running the ball but we aren't running the ball with a purpose. It is predictable and ineffective.

[56BISON73]

We hard Carson last year? I think it's our RB situation. No difference maker, a lot of rotation, no one gets stronger and in a rhythm as the game goes. One guy needs to separate himself, or the staff needs to give a guy an opportunity for a guy to separate himself.

If the offensive line would perform like they should we wouldnt be having this conversation. There isnt a back in the world that could separate themselves from the others when you dont control the line of scrimmage.

[dryash83]

Agreed

I love running the ball but we aren't running the ball with a purpose. It is predictable and ineffective.

Defense wins games



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[tolnabison]

If the offensive line would perform like they should we wouldnt be having this conversation. There isnt a back in the world that could separate themselves from the others when you dont control the line of scrimmage.

I agree with that too. I just look at a lot of plays that there is correct blocking and development; and our runningbacks don't make it through the hole or the second level closes faster than our RBs make it through. There just isn't that burst or "it" factor we have had in the past. The offensive line has been very underwhelming. You have Haeg, supposedly a pro prospect. Kelly and Johnson who have been multi year starters at guards and Lechler in his second year at right tackle. You'd think it would be our strength.

[MAKBison]

If the offensive line would perform like they should we wouldnt be having this conversation. There isnt a back in the world that could separate themselves from the others when you dont control the line of scrimmage.

Good point. I need to watch back. Really don't feel like doing so today

[yopaulie]

Whatever happened to our whole we own the 4th quarter mentality and wear teams out? The only team that wears out in the 4th is in Green and Gold. I think we could establish a RB if we go back to more of the old school I formation stuff with a fullback. In the 4th quarter those short runs will go long

Ding ding! We have a winner! Total agreement with you.

[yopaulie]

I agree with that too. I just look at a lot of plays that there is correct blocking and development; and our runningbacks don't make it through the hole or the second level closes faster than our RBs make it through. There just isn't that burst or "it" factor we have had in the past. The offensive line has been very underwhelming. You have Haeg, supposedly a pro prospect. Kelly and Johnson who have been multi year starters at guards and Lechler in his second year at right tackle. You'd think it would be our strength.

If the offensive scheme changes, and suddenly your pro prospect is now a "supposed prospect", and your seasoned championship linemen are suddenly underperforming, maybe you should consider that it is NOT the players (who haven't changed), but the scheme (the one thing that did change).

[56BISON73]

I agree with that too. I just look at a lot of plays that there is correct blocking and development; and our runningbacks don't make it through the hole or the second level closes faster than our RBs make it through. There just isn't that burst or "it" factor we have had in the past. The offensive line has been very underwhelming. You have Haeg, supposedly a pro prospect. Kelly and Johnson who have been multi year starters at guards and Lechler in his second year at right tackle[B]. You'd think it would be our strength.
[/B

You would think so. But they are getting beat upfront. Which also allows their D to make pursuit tackles from the back side when it looks like theres a hole. It boggles my mind when I think how inept we look at times.

[MAKBison]

[/B

You would think so. But they are getting beat upfront. Which also allows their D to make pursuit tackles from the back side when it looks like theres a hole. It boggles my mind when I think how inept we look at times.

It's why the backs look slow. In reality it's the line

[tolnabison]

If the offensive scheme changes, and suddenly your pro prospect is now a "supposed prospect", and your seasoned championship linemen are suddenly underperforming, maybe you should consider that it is NOT the players (who haven't changed), but the scheme (the one thing that did change).

I'm not degrading Haeg? I am saying he is a supposed pro prospect like I am expecting that level out of him. He probably grades out really well every week. Scheme usually changes to personnel.

[MAKBison]

As the Wiseman said......we will see.

[56BISON73]

Whatever happened to our whole we own the 4th quarter mentality and wear teams out? The only team that wears out in the 4th is in Green and Gold. I think we could establish a RB if we go back to more of the old school I formation stuff with a fullback. In the 4th quarter those short runs will go long

Guess what. The other teams have taken a cue from us. They now have strength and conditioning coaches also. They have good talent. Our D doesnt like an up tempo offense. We dont do well with a mobile QB. There offense ran the ball down our throats. We were out passed and out rushed. Their coaches found weakness and exploited it.

[NDSUSR]

Guess what. The other teams have taken a cue from us. They now have strength and conditioning coaches also. They have good talent. Our D doesnt like an up tempo offense. We dont do well with a mobile QB. There offense ran the ball down our throats. We were out passed and out rushed. Their coaches found weakness and exploited it.

Ouch... When reality sets in. The above is very true, but it stings.

[MAKBison]

Uni and Ysu both lost

[NDSUSR]

Uni and Ysu both lost

Thats nice and all, but right now ISUr will stomp a mudhole in our asses 10' deep.

[A1pigskin]

Not enough reps for one RB to improve.

[HerdBot]

Guess what. The other teams have taken a cue from us. They now have strength and conditioning coaches also. They have good talent. Our D doesnt like an up tempo offense. We dont do well with a mobile QB. There offense ran the ball down our throats. We were out passed and out rushed. Their coaches found weakness and exploited it.

I agree but I was talking about our offense. We no longer wear teams out. What's sad is we have the personal that fits the power running game. (it sure worked last year with basically the same guys) You can't wear teams out pass blocking for 3 quarters and running finesse zone blocking. Obviously it's not a bad idea to occasionally do that stuff to keep defenses off balance but it seems like we've really gone away from what made us who we are. A power running team who runs a ton of play action out of the I

[westnodak93bison]

Is there any chance we ditch the zone run read option crap? I've read enough on here from former players to think we should. Burgundy, any chance the staff would make this adjustment? I know a few of the coaches follow this site.

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[ZHerd]

Question for whoever knows: Riley coached O-line at Nebraska-Omaha and at Sacremento St. What kind of blocking scheme did he coach at those stops?

[yopaulie]

All right...I was getting really annoyed by all the misinformation being put out here by posters regarding the run game vs. USD. Here are the numbers against USD. I counted the number of power runs, defined by QB behind center, and more than one RB/FB/HB behind the line of scrimmage (so based on formation, not blocking scheme), including plays where Bonnet lines up just behind the left end or Tight End of the Oline. I defined a successful running play as 4 yds or greater. Here are the stats:

1st Quarter: 5/19 plays were power runs, 4/5 power runs were successful (the 1 non-success was 20yd gain w/Joe Haeg hold), 7/19 total running plays
2nd Quarter: 9/18 plays were power runs, 7/9 power runs were successful, 12/19 total running plays
1st Half Totals: 14/37 plays were power runs, 11/14 power runs were successful, 19/38 total running plays, Score Bison 21, USD 14

3rd Quarter: 3/17 plays were power runs, 1/3 power runs were successful (Anderson running sideways on one), 9/17 total running plays [so 6 running plays were out of S.G/Read Opt/single back]
4th Quarter: 1/8 plays were power runs, 0/1 power runs were successful, 3/8 total running plays
2nd Half Totals: 4/25 plays were power runs, 1/4 power runs were successful, 12/25 total running plays, USD 24, Bison 21

Game Totals: 18/52 plays were power runs, 12/18 power runs were successful, 31/63 total running plays

Notes:
1. This is clear evidence to me that we have moved away from a power running scheme, even though it was very successful in the first half of the USD game.
2. Those people saying we tried to run (and I refer to Power running) and failed, especially in the 2nd half, do not have the facts on their side.
3. It is obvious to me why we aren't wearing out any defenses in the 2nd half - why would we be with such a limited power running game in the first half, specifically the 1st quarter?
4. It is also obvious to me why we are very hit and miss on offense in the 4th quarter - the other team is not tired, and we rely on passing/running out of the shotgun when the game is on the line.
5. People are saying that it is our personnel that is limiting our power running. We were very successful when we stuck with it - 2nd quarter specifically. This tells me the formula still works with the Oline we have right now.

[CAS4127]

To late now, Yopaul, but would be interested to know how many times we passed out of power run play formation. Passing out of run formation can open up run game at times.


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[westnodak93bison]

Thanks for the research. I'd also like to know how many times we passed out of power run formations. We used to mix it up well and run or play action pass.

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[yopaulie]

Thanks for the research. I'd also like to know how many times we passed out of power run formations. We used to mix it up well and run or play action pass.

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CAS and WestNodak, I'll have to let someone else do that follow up research...:)

I will say anecdotally, that it was a definite minority of passing plays. Not knowing for sure what I would see, I was surprised at just how much shot gun with a single back I saw, especially in the 2nd half.

[yopaulie]

One other thing that struck me, was just how much we got out-Bisoned in the 4th quarter by USD (as a few others have said). We only had 8 plays in the 4th quarter.

[Kermit]

All right...I counted the number of power runs, defined by QB behind center, and more than one RB/FB/HB behind the line of scrimmage, including plays where Bonnet lines up just behind the left end or Tight End of the Oline...

We have a major terminology issue here: power or zone run blocking schemes have NOTHING to do with formation. They refer to blocking concepts that are discussed in the video below. The use of different formations and whether or not the QB is under center has nothing to do with whether the offense is running a power or zone play.


https://youtu.be/0VZ-BRztO4M

More on the power play:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-nfl-college-football-power-running-counter-running/

More on zone blocking:
http://static.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html

[Rock]

Thanks for posting that Kermit. Good stuff.

[yopaulie]

We have a major terminology issue here: power or zone run blocking schemes have NOTHING to do with formation. They refer to blocking concepts that are discussed in the video below. The use of different formations and whether or not the QB is under center has nothing to do with whether the offense is running a power or zone play.


https://youtu.be/0VZ-BRztO4M

I did think about that as I was reviewing - and I did view the Billichek video link. While I admit that I may not be knowledgable enough to recognize all power blocking calls made out of shotgun, I did not see any linemen pulling, or other blocking characteristics that I normally see out of the multi-back formations. My focus was really on whether the play calls were FB/HB based plays vs. read option runs. Not sure how to distinguish those plays terminology wise, but those are the scheme/play call differences that I personally think matter. Fair question/point though.

[CAS4127]

We have a major terminology issue here: power or zone run blocking schemes have NOTHING to do with formation. They refer to blocking concepts that are discussed in the video below. The use of different formations and whether or not the QB is under center has nothing to do with whether the offense is running a power or zone play.


https://youtu.be/0VZ-BRztO4M

More on the power play:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-nfl-college-football-power-running-counter-running/

More on zone blocking:
http://static.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html

Right. Even the plays he counted may not all have been power, if any. But it gives something to work with.


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[yopaulie]

As someone who really appreciates learning about the game, I would love it if someone would point out an example play from the USD game of a power blocking scheme out of shotgun. Or if all of our shotgun running plays are considered power run blocking (maybe we never actually zone block?), then my issue with the offense is not with the blocking schemes at all, but with the extensive use of read-option shotgun single RB play calls, instead of multi-backfield formations, as well as the lack of plays where linemen pull and or trap.

[HerdBot]

As someone who really appreciates learning about the game, I would love it if someone would point out an example play from the USD game of a power blocking scheme out of shotgun. Or if all of our shotgun running plays are considered power run blocking (maybe we never actually zone block?), then my issue with the offense is not with the blocking schemes at all, but with the extensive use of read-option shotgun single RB play calls, instead of multi-backfield formations, as well as the lack of plays where linemen pull and or trap.

Power is just a lineman who pulls and overloads a spot. It's actually more of a play than a scheme. Man blocking (some call it power scheme or drive) is just a lineman blocking 1 person in front of him and pushing him back. It's the most effective at wearing teams out and plays to our strength of big strong players). Zone blocking is blocking an area instead of a player. We've always done both of them but way more man blocking. The plays we run where all 5 lineman pull and thr RB follows them outside is zone.

I looked at the limited online highlights and I didn't see any power but on Bruce Andersons TD it was man blocking out of the shotgun and he walked in. The rest of thr highlights were passes out of the shotgun.

[Bison"FANatic"]

As someone who really appreciates learning about the game, I would love it if someone would point out an example play from the USD game of a power blocking scheme out of shotgun. Or if all of our shotgun running plays are considered power run blocking (maybe we never actually zone block?), then my issue with the offense is not with the blocking schemes at all, but with the extensive use of read-option shotgun single RB play calls, instead of multi-backfield formations, as well as the lack of plays where linemen pull and or trap.

How about our first play from scrimmage, we were in the shotgun and we pulled the rt. guard around and carson faked the hand off and passed out of it. It was a atypical presnap alignment

[CAS4127]

How about our first play from scrimmage, we were in the shotgun and we pulled the rt. guard around and carson faked the hand off and passed out of it. It was a atypical presnap alignment

Sounds like a pass protection scheme.

How about this. When this year have we heard Scottie or anyone else say, wow, the OL is really get off the ball; wow, the OL is really getting a strong push up the middle, etc.

Answer: not once, in large part because that is not what we are trying to do anymore.

Also, I did not hear one pad crack from LOS last Saturday. Used to hear them all the time from or OL.


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[Mr. Burgundy]

I have avoided BV for a few days while trying to put my hands around this....but I would do anything for some fire and passion to come out of a kid on this roster. Last year I remember Austin Kuhnert come off the field (helmet came off) and he was almost in a damn rage. Kid had a fire in his belly. Last week he was out. BOTH of our lines were garbage last week. They know it, the staff knows it and every arm chair QB on BV knows it. THis will not be a fun week to sit in the Coach Riley room. I am really hoping that the O line gets it going this week and they can start to perform UP to their ability. They are underachieving as a unit and I believe get Austin back. Play with some fire and blow someone off the ball. Last week was embarrassing. I am with CAS....can I hear one pad crack at the LOS? EITHER SIDE? I am not trying to say I am glad we lost, but sometimes it takes a huge blow to realize what needs to be done. Epic letdown game, now we need to put it back together. It starts up front.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Sounds like a pass protection scheme.

.

Its a either/or we have ran out of the same scheme.

That first quarter was a good mix of run and pass and we were getting some good yards with power. Then It was like what the hell just happened. Did anyone notice what adjustment USD made mainly in the second half, I didn't watch it back but I remember the backs running into a wall in our backfield way to often.

[CAS4127]

From the article in Billy Turner thread..
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/22/d8946902a9c9da7d053d7ac909aca91b.jpg
God I miss that.


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[StL Bison Fan]

From the article in Billy Turner thread..
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/22/d8946902a9c9da7d053d7ac909aca91b.jpg
God I miss that.


Sent from my iPhone.

Dead on. This jumped out at me also. Had me wishing for the good old days...

[BlueBisonRock]

Dead on. This jumped out at me also. Had me wishing for the good old days...

Forward it to a select few with a smile.

[ZHerd]

Our ground game is a bit of an anomaly to me. I've mostly placed blame on the backs but a review of last year is interesting. Our top 4 rushers of 2014 were Crockett 5.4ypc, Wentz 4.7ypc, Frazier 5.5ypc, and Chase 7.2 (much in mopup duty) and the team average was 5.2ypc. Now in 2015: Wentz 4.0, Frazier 4.6, Chase 3.7 and team average 4.3ypc. If I saw only those stats I would say our o-line play has really swirled down the toilet. Would Crockett even really make that big of a difference? Easton throws a bit of a wrench in with his gaudy 7.4ypc proving that it is possible to find lanes behind this o-line. I'm not really sure what to think.

Edit: Pass protection is solid, comparable with the current 1.14 sack allowed per game vs 2014 1.25 per game

[stevdock]

I know it was end of the game and everything but that last drive when we went either I or Power I and QB under center, we ran the ball very well.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm still of the opinion we don't need to run power to be successful if the offense is efficient running the read option. The problem is the offense isn't efficient running the read option and the biggest problem, IMO, is the O-line isn't blocking well. Could very well be due to the new blocking schemes, I don't know but until we get back to the 5 ypc that's been the standard for the Bison offense over the years something needs to be done to kickstart this inefficient ground game.

[Bison 4 Life]

Still rushing 194 ypg. Better than 2011 with DJ and about even in 2012 with Ojuri and Crockett. Last 2 years were markedly better but our 31 PPG average is on par with most of our recent teams.

I don't know why the problem is with our offense.

[ZHerd]

Still rushing 194 ypg. Better than 2011 with DJ and about even in 2012 with Ojuri and Crockett. Last 2 years were markedly better but our 31 PPG average is on par with most of our recent teams.

I don't know why the problem is with our offense.

I'm far more interested in efficiency and ypc than in total per game. I had to go back to 2005 to find an NDSU team with a worse team ypc than this current team. Some of those teams were at 6ypc. I also noticed that the workhorse backs each year were almost always over 5ypc. For a Bison offense this ground game is inefficient and frankly not very scary.

[FrozenTech]

The two games we've lost this year have been by 3 points. Its also worth noting that both the games lost this year Carson got banged up early, and stayed in. I can't make a determination on if those were the right calls or not, but I think the ISU game, where we kept it on the ground, early and often, and suddenly, we were the team with gas in the 4th quarter proves one thing. Weather or not the O line is doing really well - weather or not Running 4 RBs is hurting us badly (and I think in both those cases, the answer is yes, and they're very, very connected) - NOT chosing to the run ball, and not throwing the ball out from under center (Its probably happened but I've reviewed three Carson games this year and it didn't happen in any of those) is costing us in the late games. You run the ball to controll the clock, and if you can't run the ball effectively late, you can't control the clock, and the game. And that is what happened at Montana and USD. I honestly believe that if Carson had been healthy for both games, the whole game, he would have found a way to *win* them. But he wasn't, and when the team needed to pick him up, they couldn't because the ground had not been prepared correctly.

I am not, by any stretch of the imagination a great football mind. But I do think Polesek's current scheming is hurting us more then its helping us. I'm not sure if its being done because that's what he prefers, or if like I suspect with Crockett (and Crockett was a great back, nothing against him) Polesek was more interested in getting his star a better shot at the next level. Carson's an amazing QB and he deserves his shot. But if we've changed formula of this team to make *one person* look better (and I have nothing but my gut to make me think this is so) it needs to stop. Bison Football is about the Team winning or losing together, end of statement. That means that one persons stats are seldom amazing, but its built teams that have run roughshod over any and all when they're firing on all cylinders. I wonder if we'll ever see that again.

[BisonNation11]

Still rushing 194 ypg. Better than 2011 with DJ and about even in 2012 with Ojuri and Crockett. Last 2 years were markedly better but our 31 PPG average is on par with most of our recent teams.

I don't know why the problem is with our offense.

I think it's just how the yards are being gained. I have yet to watch a game and be like, "That was a dominant running performance." To the eye it just doesn't seem like it's "there". It's not a "break your spirit" type of running game this season. I couldn't tell you if they're blocking zone, man, whatever, it just seems different and it all starts with this read-option game.

And for those wondering why Stick was so successful running the ball, the answer is your running backs now turn into blockers. So instead of blocking with 9 guys, you're now blocking with 10. Which is why I loved our power game so much in previous years. Pulling guards, tackles and tight ends were a lot of fun to watch because it took while to develop and you could see the boys getting out front looking to bulldoze whatever got in their way. All the backs had to do is follow, make a cut and suddenly you're racing to the end zone. I'm still of the belief the run game is due to blocking and I believe the RB's are more than capable of ripping one off if the blocking was there. My .02.

[Buffalo.Rider]

Carson Wentz happened!!!!! Everyone got poopy dick and forgot how to run an offense because they have an NFL potential player. They've put 100% of the offense on him and forgot it's a team game and now can only win based on CW having a great game. It's a horrible horrible change in philosophy that has already cost them 2 losses.

I fully agree! Psychologically this has hurt the team, and is why (if it happens) that the Bison with go further the rest of the year with Stick as the QB.

[Buffalo.Rider]

We hard Carson last year? I think it's our RB situation. No difference maker, a lot of rotation, no one gets stronger and in a rhythm as the game goes. One guy needs to separate himself, or the staff needs to give a guy an opportunity for a guy to separate himself.

Last year came the realization that Carson might be an NFL caliber QB. After the three come-from-behind games in the playoffs, including the Championship game against Ill. State's Redbirds, the idea that Carson might be .... turned into he IS an NFL caliber QB, and I think the offense has been changed this year in subtle ways to leverage Carson's strengths. Unfortunately, it has indirectly sent a message (in my opinion) to the other players that when the going gets tough, Carson will find another gear and win it. However, football is a team game and no one player wins a game. With Carson out, the Bison might very well (and I think probably) become a stronger and better TEAM.

I am not blaming Carson for anything, he is just doing what he does and has been really good at it. It is the subtle messages, drummed over and over into everyone's psyche, from the media (big time the media), perhaps the coaches, fellow players, NDSU students, Bison Illustrated perhaps and so on.

[CAS4127]

We need to go back to power and have RO as an option for other teams to prepare for.


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[2011BisonAlumni]

I'm still of the opinion we don't need to run power to be successful if the offense is efficient running the read option. The problem is the offense isn't efficient running the read option and the biggest problem, IMO, is the O-line isn't blocking well. Could very well be due to the new blocking schemes, I don't know but until we get back to the 5 ypc that's been the standard for the Bison offense over the years something needs to be done to kickstart this inefficient ground game.

I do not agree with this at all.

By far and away the biggest problem is 4 running back rotation and it isn't even close. There were a TON of games from 2011-2014 where DJ, Sam or John started really slow and by the 3rd or 4th quarter they were dominating. Running backs are kind of like shooters in basketball. Sometines a shooter needs to put up a few shots and get one through the basket before they turn it on. Running backs sometimes need multiple carries before they really have the game slow down and see what is happening. I could honestly bitch slap TP 90% of the time this season. Anytime a running back rips a nice run, he is immediately yanked for the next guy. So incredibly fucking stupid. Pick a guy, any guy, and ride him along with one other back to give him a breather. I want to see one quarter where a running back gets 90% of the carries.

The future is Bruce Anderson and Lance Dunn. Dunn was easily the best back this spring. Feed them the ball. King is slow and has no vision. He reminds me of a shitty Frank Gore. Chase is a full back. Klieman either needs to grow a but sack and do what is needed or find another offensive coordinator next season if TP can't figure this out. There has not been a Bison back to not crack 1,000 yards since the 70's. No more excuses.

[NDSU_grad]

I do not agree with this at all.

By far and away the biggest problem is 4 running back rotation and it isn't even close. There were a TON of games from 2011-2014 where DJ, Sam or John started really slow and by the 3rd or 4th quarter they were dominating. Running backs are kind of like shooters in basketball. Sometines a shooter needs to put up a few shots and get one through the basket before they turn it on. Running backs sometimes need multiple carries before they really have the game slow down and see what is happening. I could honestly bitch slap TP 90% of the time this season. Anytime a running back rips a nice run, he is immediately yanked for the next guy. So incredibly fucking stupid. Pick a guy, any guy, and ride him along with one other back to give him a breather. I want to see one quarter where a running back gets 90% of the carries.

The future is Bruce Anderson and Lance Dunn. Dunn was easily the best back this spring. Feed them the ball. King is slow and has no vision. He reminds me of a shitty Frank Gore. Chase is a full back. Klieman either needs to grow a but sack and do what is needed or find another offensive coordinator next season if TP can't figure this out. There has not been a Bison back to not crack 1,000 yards since the 70's. No more excuses.
How do you know it's not Klieman making the decision to play all the rb's? I highly doubt Polasek is making this call without input from Klieman.

[BisoninNWMN]

We need to go back to power and have RO as an option for other teams to prepare for.


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This here.

Let the RBS get into the game by keeping one of them on the field.

[BisoninNWMN]

How do you know it's not Klieman making the decision to play all the rb's? I highly doubt Polasek is making this call without input from Klieman.


This. Coach K has said they all are going to carry the ball.

[EC8CH]

I doubt the coaching staff is concerned if one individual back gets 1000 yards this season so long as the running game as a whole is being effective and winning games. They seem to believe there is room for improvement but it doesn't look like they are changing the running back by committee approach.

[SoCalBison]

I doubt the coaching staff is concerned if one individual back gets 1000 yards this season so long as the running game as a whole is being effective and winning games. They seem to believe there is room for improvement but it doesn't look like they are changing the running back by committee approach.

Doesn't look like they're changing any approach to anything...

[Professor Chaos]

I do not agree with this at all.

By far and away the biggest problem is 4 running back rotation and it isn't even close. There were a TON of games from 2011-2014 where DJ, Sam or John started really slow and by the 3rd or 4th quarter they were dominating. Running backs are kind of like shooters in basketball. Sometines a shooter needs to put up a few shots and get one through the basket before they turn it on. Running backs sometimes need multiple carries before they really have the game slow down and see what is happening. I could honestly bitch slap TP 90% of the time this season. Anytime a running back rips a nice run, he is immediately yanked for the next guy. So incredibly fucking stupid. Pick a guy, any guy, and ride him along with one other back to give him a breather. I want to see one quarter where a running back gets 90% of the carries.

The future is Bruce Anderson and Lance Dunn. Dunn was easily the best back this spring. Feed them the ball. King is slow and has no vision. He reminds me of a shitty Frank Gore. Chase is a full back. Klieman either needs to grow a but sack and do what is needed or find another offensive coordinator next season if TP can't figure this out. There has not been a Bison back to not crack 1,000 yards since the 70's. No more excuses.


How do you know it's not Klieman making the decision to play all the rb's? I highly doubt Polasek is making this call without input from Klieman.
It's also a possibility that Polasek and Klieman want the same thing; to see an RB take the lead job and, literally and figuratively, run with it. None of these guys are really standing out. IMO, in previous years it wasn't the RBs that got better as the game went along, it was the O-line. This year I see a lot of inconsistency from the O-line. I agree that Frazier has looked like far from a feature back with his vision, decisiveness, and ball security (or lack thereof) but he also averaged 5.5 ypc last year in limited duty filling in for Crockett, and Morlock averaged 7.2 ypc in even more limited action, so it's not like RBs can't be efficient if they don't touch the ball 20 times a game.

Overall I agree that I'd like to see them pare it down to 2 RBs getting almost all the carries but I think the problem is a lot deeper than that.

[Honeybooboo]

. Klieman either needs to grow a but sack and do what is needed


life......finds a way

[Jay]

For comparison sakes... 2013 NIU stats (Tim's last year as an NIU assistant). Jordan Lynch was a monster but NIU still had a RB that was efficient and a 1000 yard rusher (no RB rotation either).

http://www.niuhuskies.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2013-2014/teamcume.html#TEAM.IND

6374

[89MTBISON]

Injuries to BA and LD have slowed their progress, they are our only two options rushing the ball, other than the QB. If they get healthy, watch out, our running game gets better just in time for playoffs.:)

[G_Funky]

That's part of it, but the power game is something that made us different. Almost every other team runs zone schemes. It's a whole lot easier for them to defend if they are familiar with it.

Not only this but we ran A gap power...there are plenty of teams that run power to the C gap.

A gap power is for the men...you outnumber their interior defenders and before the inside backers know it they have either an o- linemen or a double teamed d-linemen in their lap. It's dang hard to react to what's going on on in front of you when everything is straight downhill.

As we used to always say, 4 yards and a cloud of dust.


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[G_Funky]

We need to go back to power and have RO as an option for other teams to prepare for.


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Piss on the RO...I'm convinced that's why the defense is so soft...instead of practicing "good on good" against a power scheme -forcing them to be tough mfers they are out there playing basketball


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[ZHerd]

I do not agree with this at all.

By far and away the biggest problem is 4 running back rotation and it isn't even close. There were a TON of games from 2011-2014 where DJ, Sam or John started really slow and by the 3rd or 4th quarter they were dominating. Running backs are kind of like shooters in basketball. Sometines a shooter needs to put up a few shots and get one through the basket before they turn it on. Running backs sometimes need multiple carries before they really have the game slow down and see what is happening. I could honestly bitch slap TP 90% of the time this season. Anytime a running back rips a nice run, he is immediately yanked for the next guy. So incredibly fucking stupid. Pick a guy, any guy, and ride him along with one other back to give him a breather. I want to see one quarter where a running back gets 90% of the carries.

The future is Bruce Anderson and Lance Dunn. Dunn was easily the best back this spring. Feed them the ball. King is slow and has no vision. He reminds me of a shitty Frank Gore. Chase is a full back. Klieman either needs to grow a but sack and do what is needed or find another offensive coordinator next season if TP can't figure this out. There has not been a Bison back to not crack 1,000 yards since the 70's. No more excuses.

100% right on the rotation every single stinking play and never allowing anyone to get a rythm. I was fine with them trying different backs the first few games but 1) the way they do it is stupid with the constant rotating and 2) they ought to know who they are going to go with by now but we still know nothing more than game 1...ZERO progress. Imo they will never figure it out if they don't leave guys in for a while. It's really annoying

[CAS4127]

100% right on the rotation every single stinking play and never allowing anyone to get a rythm. I was fine with them trying different backs the first few games but 1) the way they do it is stupid with the constant rotating and 2) they ought to know who they are going to go with by now but we still know nothing more than game 1...ZERO progress. Imo they will never figure it out if they don't leave guys in for a while. It's really annoying

Agree, and nor will any of them be able to separate from others


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[G_Funky]

100% right on the rotation every single stinking play and never allowing anyone to get a rythm. I was fine with them trying different backs the first few games but 1) the way they do it is stupid with the constant rotating and 2) they ought to know who they are going to go with by now but we still know nothing more than game 1...ZERO progress. Imo they will never figure it out if they don't leave guys in for a while. It's really annoying

Unfortunately I think at this point we have to lay in the bed we made...Weber and UN_ would have been nice candidates to be our guinea pig to find an RB worth their salt. At this point we can't really "test out" an RBs effectiveness...although, I'm not sure the running game could really get that much worse.


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[THEsocalledfan]

100% right on the rotation every single stinking play and never allowing anyone to get a rythm. I was fine with them trying different backs the first few games but 1) the way they do it is stupid with the constant rotating and 2) they ought to know who they are going to go with by now but we still know nothing more than game 1...ZERO progress. Imo they will never figure it out if they don't leave guys in for a while. It's really annoying

There is much extreme knowledge in these posts and I will not argue with the logic. However, I think their issue is they want to see some cream rise to the top and it has not happened. So, hard for me to have the amount of angst about this that I probably should.

[ZHerd]

There is much extreme knowledge in these posts and I will not argue with the logic. However, I think their issue is they want to see some cream rise to the top and it has not happened. So, hard for me to have the amount of angst about this that I probably should.

It was an opinion and I hope some cream will rise. I just don't see it happening sending a different guy in all the time. I'd be fine with being proven wrong

[THEsocalledfan]

I'd be fine with being proven wrong

As would I. We need a Dude no matter what the trick is.

[BisonNeil]

I
I do not agree with this at all.

By far and away the biggest problem is 4 running back rotation and it isn't even close. There were a TON of games from 2011-2014 where DJ, Sam or John started really slow and by the 3rd or 4th quarter they were dominating. Running backs are kind of like shooters in basketball. Sometines a shooter needs to put up a few shots and get one through the basket before they turn it on. Running backs sometimes need multiple carries before they really have the game slow down and see what is happening. I could honestly bitch slap TP 90% of the time this season. Anytime a running back rips a nice run, he is immediately yanked for the next guy. So incredibly fucking stupid. Pick a guy, any guy, and ride him along with one other back to give him a breather. I want to see one quarter where a running back gets 90% of the carries.

The future is Bruce Anderson and Lance Dunn. Dunn was easily the best back this spring. Feed them the ball. King is slow and has no vision. He reminds me of a shitty Frank Gore. Chase is a full back. Klieman either needs to grow a but sack and do what is needed or find another offensive coordinator next season if TP can't figure this out. There has not been a Bison back to not crack 1,000 yards since the 70's. No more excuses.

You do know that Dunn sat out two games with a hamstring injury, right? And if you played sports and had a hammie issue, or had a teammate that did, they never fucking heal. Ever! So to make him the workhorse, while not impossible, is improbable. You know all this, right?

[BisonNeil]

None of these guys are really standing out.

You do remember all the injuries and missed games the RBs have had, right?

[Bison 4 Life]

Come back from the fucking ledge, everybody. We won on Saturday, in rain and wind. Couldn't have done that without a running game.

[NorthernBison]

I

You do know that Dunn sat out two games with a hamstring injury, right? And if you played sports and had a hammie issue, or had a teammate that did, they never fucking heal. Ever! So to make him the workhorse, while not impossible, is improbable. You know all this, right?Correct. Even a Minor hamstring injury will hamper a player for the entire season and it will be a potential problem every season thereafter without intense rehab. One of the worst nagging injuries there is.

[Rock]

Glad to see more run out of power formations with qb under center early. I think that benefitted NDSU in the 4th.

Is the tailback being set deeper in the formation than in the past? Seems to be quite a way back from the line of scrimmage compared to other teams.

[NorthernBison]

Glad to see more run out of power formations with qb under center early. I think that benefitted NDSU in the 4th.

Is the tailback being set deeper in the formation than in the past? Seems to be quite a way back from the line of scrimmage compared to other teams.
I thought we cleared this up earlier. Power has NOTHING to do with the initial formation. "A GAP POWER" is how the line blocks the run play. Whether the QB takes the ball from under center and hands it off or catches the shotgun snap and hands it off makes no difference. Basically, playside linemen downblock except for the tackle who either doubles the DT or goes straight ahead and blocks any LB or Safety trying to stop the run. The FB kicks out the end on the playside and the opposite guard or tackle pulls into the hole and the RB cuts off his block. So, if you see a pulling guard or tackle, THAT IS A POWER RUN. Period. BTW, you'll probably not notice this but on most plays that aren't "power" (non-power runs, dropback pass, and play action), one side of the line is zone blocking (slide side) and the other is man blocking (man side). The man side is where the back is. That's so the defense doesn't instantly recognize pass or run.

[Snowgoose]

[QUOTE=CAS4127;1054487]We need to go back to power and have RO as an option for other teams to prepare for.

I agree wholeheartedly, but Polasek does not agree with us.

Interest comment made during the Stanford game on Saturday by the commentator. He said he had talked to a few defensive coordinators in the PAC 12 and they indicated that preparing for Stanford's offense was way more difficult than the Spread/RO that everybody in college football is running. They were saying this cause Stanford is averaging 49 points a game. Sound familiar to past years.

[semobison]

Come back from the fucking ledge, everybody. We won on Saturday, in rain and wind. Couldn't have done that without a running game.

Our QB was our run game. Our longest run from a RB in the last 3 games is 12 yards! Against ISUb it was 9 yards! This thread is about our power running game or lack thereof.

[EC8CH]

Our QB was our run game. Our longest run from a RB in the last 3 games is 12 yards! Against ISUb it was 9 yards! This thread is about our power running game or lack thereof.

QB can be part of the power running game too.

[CentennialBison]

This video talks a little bit about west coast, and power-

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d80abe947/WK-2-Playbook-Brian-Billick-on-the-West-Coast-Offense

[Rock]

I thought we cleared this up earlier. Power has NOTHING to do with the initial formation. "A GAP POWER" is how the line blocks the run play. Whether the QB takes the ball from under center and hands it off or catches the shotgun snap and hands it off makes no difference. Basically, playside linemen downblock except for the tackle who either doubles the DT or goes straight ahead and blocks any LB or Safety trying to stop the run. The FB kicks out the end on the playside and the opposite guard or tackle pulls into the hole and the RB cuts off his block. So, if you see a pulling guard or tackle, THAT IS A POWER RUN. Period. BTW, you'll probably not notice this but on most plays that aren't "power" (non-power runs, dropback pass, and play action), one side of the line is zone blocking (slide side) and the other is man blocking (man side). The man side is where the back is. That's so the defense doesn't instantly recognize pass or run.

Thanks good breakdown. I meant to refer to "power formations" generally versus the play itself as sets with double tight end, lead back, or multiple lead back sets as opposed to spread sets, with single or no back.

[CAS4127]

QB can be part of the power running game too.

See Brock's KState final TD.


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[NorthernBison]

Thanks good breakdown. I meant to refer to "power formations" generally versus the play itself as sets with double tight end, lead back, or multiple lead back sets as opposed to spread sets, with single or no back.

Yeah and I wasn't picking on you. The fact is that even a shotgun formation with 1 back and Bonnet motioning to a position behind the line on the play side is EXACTLY the same play as QB under center with 2 backs in I formation in terms of how it is blocked.

[CAS4127]

Thanks good breakdown. I meant to refer to "power formations" generally versus the play itself as sets with double tight end, lead back, or multiple lead back sets as opposed to spread sets, with single or no back.

It's more effective out of traditional sets IMO. Better timing.


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[Rock]

Yeah and I wasn't picking on you. The fact is that even a shotgun formation with 1 back and Bonnet motioning to a position behind the line on the play side is EXACTLY the same play as QB under center with 2 backs in I formation in terms of how it is blocked.

I agree- if you have an opportunity I suggest checking out alabama's game winning touchdown against Tennessee last week. The set, motion, and blocking. Very well executed.

[NDSUstudent]

[QUOTE=CAS4127;1054487]We need to go back to power and have RO as an option for other teams to prepare for.

I agree wholeheartedly, but Polasek does not agree with us.

Interest comment made during the Stanford game on Saturday by the commentator. He said he had talked to a few defensive coordinators in the PAC 12 and they indicated that preparing for Stanford's offense was way more difficult than the Spread/RO that everybody in college football is running. They were saying this cause Stanford is averaging 49 points a game. Sound familiar to past years.

Stanford also has a back named Christian McCaffrey that is well one of the best in all of college football.

I don't get all the read option negativity here. Ohio State runs it, Seattle and Carolina in the NFL runs it a bit as well. Carolina is one the toughest most physical teams in the NFL, honestly I think we'll have to be a lot like them if we are going to get #5. Just a physical hard nosed team, with a great defense that grinds. Stick will need to be a bit like Newton make things happen with his legs.

[EC8CH]

With Stick I think the RO will be an even larger part of the game plan. I think many fans just don't want the Bison to lose their identity as a power running offense. Is that a real concern? I don't know. When they aren't blowing teams out, running power down their throat is less obvious. I still notice plenty of power running in games, but whether the philosophy or the situations are taking away from the emphasis on power running I don't know.

[ndsubison1]

BA (although got hurt again) and LD should be dominating 1st and 2nd downs. Id like to see them cut down on the continual rotation though. Part of it might be a guy hasnt established himself yet. Leave Morlock and Frazier to 3rd down duties. Both can pass catch and Frazier seems to pass block the best. I also liked when we were putting BA out wide a few games ago.

[ndsubison1]

[QUOTE=CAS4127;1054487]We need to go back to power and have RO as an option for other teams to prepare for.

I agree wholeheartedly, but Polasek does not agree with us.

Interest comment made during the Stanford game on Saturday by the commentator. He said he had talked to a few defensive coordinators in the PAC 12 and they indicated that preparing for Stanford's offense was way more difficult than the Spread/RO that everybody in college football is running. They were saying this cause Stanford is averaging 49 points a game. Sound familiar to past years.

I like that cuz it sets us apart from most teams and we were doing it better than anybody. Also doesnt mean we cant use the other stuff.

[Snowgoose]

BA (although got hurt again) and LD should be dominating 1st and 2nd downs. Id like to see them cut down on the continual rotation though. Part of it might be a guy hasnt established himself yet. Leave Morlock and Frazier to 3rd down duties. Both can pass catch and Frazier seems to pass block the best. I also liked when we were putting BA out wide a few games ago.

I honestly believe Darious Anderson should be our third down back. He catches the ball so well and is shifty, which is the mold of most great third down backs.

[Snowgoose]

[QUOTE=Snowgoose;1054567]

Stanford also has a back named Christian McCaffrey that is well one of the best in all of college football.

I don't get all the read option negativity here. Ohio State runs it, Seattle and Carolina in the NFL runs it a bit as well. Carolina is one the toughest most physical teams in the NFL, honestly I think we'll have to be a lot like them if we are going to get #5. Just a physical hard nosed team, with a great defense that grinds. Stick will need to be a bit like Newton make things happen with his legs.

Stanford would be fine with whoever they have at tailback, but yes McCaffrey is good. Believe me I know who McCaffrey is as he played with my nephew in Colorado and his brother is the QB there now and is passing to my nephew. I am of the believe that Dunn if healthy and given more than 6 touches could be unreal, but he has not been given more than 6 touches.

[NDSUstudent]

BA (although got hurt again) and LD should be dominating 1st and 2nd downs. Id like to see them cut down on the continual rotation though. Part of it might be a guy hasnt established himself yet. Leave Morlock and Frazier to 3rd down duties. Both can pass catch and Frazier seems to pass block the best. I also liked when we were putting BA out wide a few games ago.

It seems like the coaches are just now becoming confident in LD's hamstring, hopefully he can keep on progressing to where he gets more and more of the load.

[G_Funky]

With Stick I think the RO will be an even larger part of the game plan. I think many fans just don't want the Bison to lose their identity as a power running offense. Is that a real concern? I don't know. When they aren't blowing teams out, running power down their throat is less obvious. I still notice plenty of power running in games, but whether the philosophy or the situations are taking away from the emphasis on power running I don't know.

the success from running power doesn't show up in the 1st quarter....hell the 1st half even...it starts to exert itself in the middle of the 3rd and especially in the 4th - that is if you allow it to do its work.

Sam Houston in the semis of 2014 is a perfect example


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[ndsubison1]

I honestly believe Darious Anderson should be our third down back. He catches the ball so well and is shifty, which is the mold of most great third down backs.

Him too. He can pass catch and was adequate out wide

[G_Funky]

[QUOTE=Snowgoose;1054567]

Stanford also has a back named Christian McCaffrey that is well one of the best in all of college football. .

Stanfords tailback isn't dictating their system...however, their system does dictate who they bring in. That's what made ndsu so aggravating for opposing fans and so difficult for opposing coaches...didn't matter who was lined up at tailback they were coming straight downhill at you



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[NDSUstudent]

If Stanford had another back they would be solid but McCaffrey is the dynamic playmaker that makes them a title contender. Much like when they had Luck, he elevated them. That is what great players do. Our most dynamic offensive player is still our QB. if you scrap the RO and go to power, you take that away from the offense. I would rather run an Urban Meyer type of offense or NIU then Stanford's with our collection of talent.

That doesn't mean we can't run power because absolutely should. We should have diverse amount of running plays to keep defenses off balance, I think that is what Polasek is trying to do.

[Honeybooboo]

the success from running power doesn't show up in the 1st quarter....hell the 1st half even...it starts to exert itself in the middle of the 3rd and especially in the 4th - that is if you allow it to do its work.

Sam Houston in the semis of 2014 is a perfect example


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Or shsu in every game against them

[ByeSonBusiness]

I thought we cleared this up earlier. Power has NOTHING to do with the initial formation. "A GAP POWER" is how the line blocks the run play. Whether the QB takes the ball from under center and hands it off or catches the shotgun snap and hands it off makes no difference. Basically, playside linemen downblock except for the tackle who either doubles the DT or goes straight ahead and blocks any LB or Safety trying to stop the run. The FB kicks out the end on the playside and the opposite guard or tackle pulls into the hole and the RB cuts off his block. So, if you see a pulling guard or tackle, THAT IS A POWER RUN. Period. BTW, you'll probably not notice this but on most plays that aren't "power" (non-power runs, dropback pass, and play action), one side of the line is zone blocking (slide side) and the other is man blocking (man side). The man side is where the back is. That's so the defense doesn't instantly recognize pass or run.

I don't think Chubs was referring to the play. I think its common to refer to a type of playcalling as "power." BV has a certain recent fascination with talking about the technical meaning with the pulling linemen.

Again, not sure we have a team capable of that anymore. I recall Appalachian State fans talking about how their recruiting got "better" quality players, but not the right kind anymore. I wonder if that is some of what we are seeing or if its coaching or something.

As an aside, I don't assume one method is "superior" to any other in college football. We have seen a wide variety of teams be successful at this level. Veer, RO, West-Coast, etc.

[ByeSonBusiness]

Or shsu in every game against them

SHSU in 2011-12 didn't get worn out did they?

[Honeybooboo]

SHSU in 2011-12 didn't get worn out did they?

2011 not as bad but they were tired
2012 yes, we ran all over them from mid 3rd to the end, Crockett and Ojuri ran for whatever they wanted

[ZHerd]

If Stanford had another back they would be solid but McCaffrey is the dynamic playmaker that makes them a title contender. Much like when they had Luck, he elevated them. That is what great players do. Our most dynamic offensive player is still our QB. if you scrap the RO and go to power, you take that away from the offense. I would rather run an Urban Meyer type of offense or NIU then Stanford's with our collection of talent.

That doesn't mean we can't run power because absolutely should. We should have diverse amount of running plays to keep defenses off balance, I think that is what Polasek is trying to do.

I'm not so much against running some RO. If Stick didn't run well last game we would have lost and that option has to be there. I'm against constantly rotating backs and I'm definitely concerned about a system shift that may be responsible for us putting together our most anemic rushing attack in a decade. I'll leave the problems of the current system vs what we are use to seeing to others but it's become pretty obvious something is wrong when a QB is the only person who is capable of making a big play on the ground. Again, it's basically the same o-line as last year with two stud linemen from our 2013 line. The main backs we had last year as well as Carson are ALL branding a down arrow on their performance vs prior years even though there has been one of our best passing attacks ever to loosen things up. That is why some of us are sounding negative. I'm just wondering what's up. It's pretty obvious something is wrong.

[NDSUstudent]

I'm not so much against running some RO. If Stick didn't run well last game we would have lost and that option has to be there. I'm against constantly rotating backs and I'm definitely concerned about a system shift that may be responsible for us putting together our most anemic rushing attack in a decade. I'll leave the problems of the current system vs what we are use to seeing to others but it's become pretty obvious something is wrong when a QB is the only person who is capable of making a big play on the ground. Again, it's basically the same o-line as last year with two stud linemen from our 2013 line. The main backs we had last year as well as Carson are ALL branding a down arrow on their performance vs last year. That is why some of us are sounding negative. I'm just wondering what's up. It's pretty obvious something is wrong.

I think the Dunn injury was the worst thing that could happen to us, he looked so good in the spring. If he could just get healthy I think he would flourish.

[ZHerd]

I think the Dunn injury was the worst thing that could happen to us, he looked so good in the spring. If he could just get healthy I think he would flourish.

Or we would run him 5 times for 18 yards...just enough to start warming up a little but possibly not see what he is really capable of and then repeat the process the next game and wonder why no one is stepping up. I agree though that Dunn and BA seem to have the most upside

Also, Dunn did have an 11 carry for 25 yard game and I think it was before his injury. The jury is still out there

[EC8CH]

Watching the ISUb replay. Sticks first TD was a QB power run off the right tackle... From the shotgun.

[ZHerd]

Just for fun I took our QB running numbers out of the season totals and our rushing attack is averaging 4.00 ypc. You have to go back to 2002 to find greater sadness

[NDSUstudent]

Or we would run him 5 times for 18 yards...just enough to start warming up a little but possibly not see what he is really capable of and then repeat the process the next game and wonder why no one is stepping up. I agree though that Dunn and BA seem to have the most upside

Also, Dunn did have an 11 carry for 25 yard game and I think it was before his injury. The jury is still out there

He wasn't good in that game but I think he would have figured it out. Hoping he is healthy enough to get at least 11 carries against SIU to find out.

Kind of a shame that BA didn't get a year with Kramer before playing. Not sure he can handle the Valley grind physically yet.

[ZHerd]

He wasn't good in that game but I think he would have figured it out. Hoping he is healthy enough to get at least 11 carries against SIU to find out.

Kind of a shame that BA didn't get a year with Kramer before playing. Not sure he can handle the Valley grind physically yet.

Ya, I wouldn't give up on Lance or Bruce this year as neither may be able to shoulder a major load this season. Even NFL stud David Johnson split the load in 2011 and only averaged 4.6. I'm not sure if he redshirted or not. BA will improve with time

[HerdBot]

Just for fun I took our QB running numbers out of the season totals and our rushing attack is averaging 4.00 ypc. You have to go back to 2002 to find greater sadness

In all fairness, we havent put up passing numbers like this ever either. But I was happy with the 4.3 ypc vs a really good run defense.

I think teams must be playing us different and we don't have a game breaking running back. In prior years we had a ton of super long runs which boosted the average. Teams gotta be playing us diferently. I wonder if that's why we keep running the QB so much? If I was Polasek I would love the idea of Stick and Wentz being healthy. We could play both ane probably run the QB 50 times per game without risk to injury which would force teams to change the way they play us dramatically.

[td577]

He wasn't good in that game but I think he would have figured it out. Hoping he is healthy enough to get at least 11 carries against SIU to find out.

Kind of a shame that BA didn't get a year with Kramer before playing. Not sure he can handle the Valley grind physically yet.

I would have loved to redshirt BA. Wasn't it brought up there is concern about redshirting him and losing him or losing out on other guys from FL?

[CAS4127]

We need a RB to start running with an attitude. Every team we play has one. Need to start recruiting more hard-nosed, run with desire RBs.


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[GOBISON123]

We need a RB to start running with an attitude. Every team we play has one. Need to start recruiting more hard-nosed, run with desire RBs.


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We have Chase Morlock who is a prototypical Power Back, Lance Dunn is our Speed Back and King looks like an all purpose Back....these three is as good as any other RB in the league except Nikko Watson Leather Neck RB....I dont see any problem with our RBs.

[CAS4127]

We have Chase Morlock who is a prototypical Power Back, Lance Dunn is our Speed Back and King looks like an all purpose Back....these three is as good as any other RB in the league except Nikko Watson Leather Neck RB....I dont see any problem with our RBs.

And I disagree. Is there a rule that you can't have one RB be all of those things?

And none of them seem to run with desire, determination or attitude, at least from what I have seen.


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[Ndsu84]

Why does coach K keep saying and repeating what a great job coach Polesek is doing? He's gotta be questioning it as much as I am.

[CAS4127]

Why does coach K keep saying and repeating what a great job coach Polesek is doing? He's gotta be questioning it as much as I am.

Because he may actually think that. It's difficult to understand how other people perceive and process differently the same things you do. It can be much different, and don't assume anything.


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[HerdBot]

And I disagree. Is there a rule that you can't have one RB be all of those things?

And none of them seem to run with desire, determination or attitude, at least from what I have seen.


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I totally agree. Obviously defenses know Chase is going to run up thr gut, King up the gut or sometimes off tackle, and Dunn runs outside most of the time. It's just too predictible. You gotta get 1 guy in there that can do it all...

I liked it when they used Morlock in the passing game. That always caught them off guard.

Crockett could rum up thr gut, outside, make guys miss, run them over, and catch passes

[Ndsu84]

Because he may actually think that. It's difficult to understand how other people perceive and process differently the same things you do. It can be much different, and don't assume anything.


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Man, I don't know. I think he believes it on the outside but on the inside he's saying WTF?!?!?!?

[CAS4127]

Man, I don't know. I think he believes it on the outside but on the inside he's saying WTF?!?!?!?

If so, he needs to go with his "inside" feeling. One only get s so many chances to succeed.

But CK seems a bit passive to me, so who knows ...

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[Ndsu84]

I really felt like coach P was taking Wentz out of his game. Now just taking the Bison from what's natural.

[CAS4127]

I really felt like coach P was taking Wentz out of his game. Now just taking the Bison from what's natural.

Preach the latter thought Brother!! Even when CW was playing.


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[westnodak93bison]

CK tends to over exaggerate players abilities imho. Not sure that does anything for them.

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[unbison]

Everything in this thread is over exaggerated

[NDSU_grad]

So our qb's running numbers are pretty good, but our rb's numbers are down. Maybe that tells you the problem is with the rb position; not the o-line, not the play calling, offensive formation, etc.

[NorthernBison]

LOL. Comparing any back on our current roster to John Crockett is like comparing a Ford Focus to a Corvette. Just sayin.

[runtheoption]

Everything in this thread is over exaggerated
Similar to using absolute words like "everything."

[G_Funky]

Is the fact that Polasek coaches the RBs and preaches "if you like it take it" to a bunch of guys who have only been coached by Polasek a problem? I think the determination and skill is there, it just looks like 75% of the time the RBs are running up the backside of the o-line and not trying to find a crease after getting through the first level


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[NorthernBison]

Is the fact that Polasek coaches the RBs and preaches "if you like it take it" to a bunch of guys who have only been coached by Polasek a problem? I think the determination and skill is there, it just looks like 75% of the time the RBs are running up the backside of the o-line and not trying to find a crease after getting through the first level


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If you are talking about running power, there is really no decision to be made by the back at the 2nd level. He should be coached to cut off the block of the pulling G/T. Typically, the natural momentum of that player pulling through will lead to them kicking the defensive player out so more than 50% of the time that cut is to the middle of the field rather than the sideline. It's not really a situation where a "read" is required, it's more of a reaction. What I see King doing too much is shuffling when he gets to the 2nd level. That is NOT the place to be stutter stepping and juking. It's time to GO. Straight ahead if it's clear or one cut. That's it. Look at the John Crockett big runs from power. The defining characteristic is no juking and jiving. Make a cut and go.

[BisonNation11]

If you are talking about running power, there is really no decision to be made by the back at the 2nd level. He should be coached to cut off the block of the pulling G/T. Typically, the natural momentum of that player pulling through will lead to them kicking the defensive player out so more than 50% of the time that cut is to the middle of the field rather than the sideline. It's not really a situation where a "read" is required, it's more of a reaction. What I see King doing too much is shuffling when he gets to the 2nd level. That is NOT the place to be stutter stepping and juking. It's time to GO. Straight ahead if it's clear or one cut. That's it. Look at the John Crockett big runs from power. The defining characteristic is no juking and jiving. Make a cut and go.

Ojuri was my favorite to watch run power between the tackles. Hesitation waiting for the blockers and hole to open up, then explode through. Keep going until you hit something or plant a foot in the ground and make a cut. Both his run against I think Ill. St. for 95+ yards and his run against K State (I think) were perfect examples of this. So was Crockett's run against Iowa St. Wait for the hole, hit it hard and go. In open space it doesn't take a huge move to avoid getting tackled. A quick decisive move that allows a back to keep their speed and momentum is all they need to power past/through a would be tackler.

[td577]

Ojuri was my favorite to watch run power between the tackles. Hesitation waiting for the blockers and hole to open up, then explode through. Keep going until you hit something or plant a foot in the ground and make a cut. Both his run against I think Ill. St. for 95+ yards and his run against K State (I think) were perfect examples of this. So was Crockett's run against Iowa St. Wait for the hole, hit it hard and go. In open space it doesn't take a huge move to avoid getting tackled. A quick decisive move that allows a back to keep their speed and momentum is all they need to power past/through a would be tackler.

I remember thinking both Crockett and Ojuri started their Bison careers similarly. The both were dancing too much before the line of scrimmage when they first started out. By the time they were seniors, they were hitting the line hard and then making moves. Their home run plays progressively increased. They were fun to watch.

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[westnodak93bison]

Pat Paschal was fun to watch with the effective spin move but Roehl was the best when healthy and didn't fumble. Speed, power he had it all.

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[CaBisonFan]

Pat Paschal was fun to watch with the effective spin move but Roehl was the best when healthy and didn't fumble. Speed, power he had it all.

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I remember thinking that it was ridiculous to put Roehl at rb...but it didn't take long to change my mind. Does Bonnet have any speed?

[westnodak93bison]

Yes he does but he doesn't seem real explosive

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[CaBisonFan]

Yes he does but he doesn't seem real explosive

Sent from my XT1254 using TapatalkI hear you...but I'd rather try to tackle a fence post.

[BisonNation11]

I remember thinking that it was ridiculous to put Roehl at rb...but it didn't take long to change my mind. Does Bonnet have any speed?

He was a RB in high school and absolutely dominated. I was one of many that were more than pissed at Bohl for moving him to FB. I may have been biased as I went to school and played sports with him, but I think his results went they converted him back proved what many of us knew before the move. Really wish he had an entire career to play RB. Could have been one of the best. Certainly one of the most fun to watch with the rock.

[G_Funky]

He was a RB in high school and absolutely dominated. I was one of many that were more than pissed at Bohl for moving him to FB. I may have been biased as I went to school and played sports with him, but I think his results went they converted him back proved what many of us knew before the move. Really wish he had an entire career to play RB. Could have been one of the best. Certainly one of the most fun to watch with the rock.

Ty had to play fullback bc he was the best option after Jangs got hurt in 2006. However, when Jangs was healthy they ran Ty at tailback and the results spoke for themselves. He'd always been a downhill runner and had no interest in shifting or juking...his satisfaction came from crushing skulls.

Both of those guys optimized Bison Pride...tough nosed, fierce competitors, and absolutely hated their competition and wanted to punish them for 60 minutes.

There's a nastiness...a demeanor...that's required to be successful in the run game, regardless of the scheme...it's not there.


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[Bison4peat]

Ty had to play fullback bc he was the best option after Jangs got hurt in 2006. However, when Jangs was healthy they ran Ty at tailback and the results spoke for themselves. He'd always been a downhill runner and had no interest in shifting or juking...his satisfaction came from crushing skulls.

Both of those guys optimized Bison Pride...tough nosed, fierce competitors, and absolutely hated their competition and wanted to punish them for 60 minutes.

There's a nastiness...a demeanor...that's required to be successful in the run game, regardless of the scheme...it's not there.


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Agree, with this. It's 11 guys wanting it more than the 11 across from them.