NDSU ranked #95 in the Sagarin preseason ratings

[RedRiver]

The Sagarin college footbal ratings list NDSU at #95 as printed in today's issue of the USA Today. The higher ranked DIAA teams are #84 Montana, #91 Georgia Southern, #93 New Hampshire and #94 Northern Iowa. Minnesota is ranked #31 and Ball State is at #130. SDSU is at #151.

[IowaBison]

online at

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt06.htm

[IowaBison]

CSP--
Northeastern-133/57
Ball State-130/58
GSU-91/63
SFA-156/53
MVSU-221-31!
Minnesota-31/80
SUU-179/46
Davis-128/58
Poly-105/61
SDSU-151/54

[broke_back_mnt]

To pick a winner you compare predictors. *NDSU has a predictor of 63.48. *When you have the home field you pick up 3 pts. *Highest predictor is the predicted winner. *That makes the GSU a clear favorite if the game were played today.

He has Cal Poly at 61.44 making the BISON an almost overwhelming favorite at home, today, at 66.48/61.44.

Saragin puts a lot of weight on home field. *3 points takes you from a #95 NDSU @ 63.48 to #81 Vanderbelt @ 66.81. *

[WYOBISONMAN]

That is a darn high rating........http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/images/smilies/hurray.gif

Congrats to the 2006 edition of BISON FOOTBALL http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/images/smilies/hurray.gif

[IowaBisonToo]

That's pretty damn nice! *Starting out the year at "#4" in the Sagarin ranking is SWWEEEETT! 8-)

I'd hate to be Butler. :o :-[ :'(

[mikelsch]

I see that Northern Colorado is still in the Great West and is bringing down our conference ranking. I emailed Mr. Sagarin and asked him to move the dead weight into the Big Sky. *

[Trimmy]

Nice Greenie.

[mikelsch]

Updated Sagarin pre-season ratings now list (with UNC in the Big Sky)

1. Atlantic 10
2. Great West
3. Gateway
4. Big Sky

Before the change it was A10, Gateway, Big Sky, Great West. Hopefully the conference can have another strong year and finish in the top 1-2 conferences.

[kchats]

Quite a change for both conferences. Quite a weight around the neck UNC's record from last year and prediction for this year is to the conference they call home.

[broke_back_mnt]

Just for fun here are the end of season Massey ratings from last year:

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&yr=2005

They have NDSU a little lower at 128.

[Bison06]

I wouldn't give to much credit to a poll that has the DII champ higher than the I-AA champ.

[Dakota]

The Sagarin college footbal ratings list NDSU at #95 as printed in today's issue of the USA Today. *The higher ranked DIAA teams are #84 Montana, #91 Georgia Southern, #93 New Hampshire and #94 Northern Iowa. *Minnesota is ranked #31 and Ball State is at #130. *SDSU is at #151.
All we need now is the go ahead on 85 scholarships and good-bye to D-IAA football.
I know of 2 add'l full scholarships that will be covered upon the announcement so that leaves us at only 20 left to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IowaBison]

ahem, make that about 40 due to title ix.

[Dakota]

The other 20 will be a womens equestrian program. I am glad you have some vision. The new program will attract a whole new source of funding and support for athletics and our University.

[Scooter]

Just for fun here are the end of season Massey ratings from last year:

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&yr=2005

They have NDSU a little lower at 128.

Back on topic since it was highjacked for a time....

What the hell was this guy smoking? *So, I guess that GVSU (61) was 48 places ahead of Cal Poly(109). *LMFAO!!!! * How many sacks do you think Goochong would have had in this matchup? *::)

It would have been better if he would have had a web address of "massey-headwound-ratings.com"

[broke_back_mnt]

Bob Eblen national columnst for D2 football points out how dominating GVSU has been in D2 the last five yrs. *They are closing in on the BISON for all time greatness.

http://www.d2football.com/*

[Bisonguy]

Just for fun here are the end of season Massey ratings from last year:

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&yr=2005

They have NDSU a little lower at 128.

Back on topic since it was highjacked for a time....

What the hell was this guy smoking? *So, I guess that GVSU (61) was 48 places ahead of Cal Poly(109). *LMFAO!!!! * How many sacks do you think Goochong would have had in this matchup? *::)

It would have been better if he would have had a web address of "massey-headwound-ratings.com"



The Massey rankings are well-known to not be very accurate until at least four or five games into the season, and aren't very accurate when it comes to comparing schools from different divisions. There is not enough data yet for accurate comparisons, and probably never will be enough when comparing DI-A/DI-AA or DI-AA/DII matchups.

[Mr._Bill]

Bob Eblen national columnst for D2 football points out how dominating GVSU has been in D2 the last five yrs. *They are closing in on the BISON for all time greatness.

http://www.d2football.com/*

Now is the time to make hay in D2 with a lot of the top programs exiting. I'm sure there were a few 1-AA's saying the same thing about NDSU in the 80's and 90's. Good luck to GV. Our future is bright, than goodness for the D1 move.

[Dakota]

Just for fun here are the end of season Massey ratings from last year:

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&yr=2005

They have NDSU a little lower at 128.

Back on topic since it was highjacked for a time....

What the hell was this guy smoking? *So, I guess that GVSU (61) was 48 places ahead of Cal Poly(109). *LMFAO!!!! * How many sacks do you think Goochong would have had in this matchup? *::)

It would have been better if he would have had a web address of "massey-headwound-ratings.com"

Where are the sky marshals when you need them?

[BisonBacker]

Bob Eblen national columnst for D2 football points out how dominating GVSU has been in D2 the last five yrs. *They are closing in on the BISON for all time greatness.

http://www.d2football.com/*

I don't know how you can say that with the division as watered down as it is. The Bison dominated D2 when D2 wasn't full of a bunch of cupcakes and it meant something to win the D2 crown. I don't think I would say they are catching up with NDSU and the Dominance we had. Its altogether different division now. I will still be the first to congratulate them but I didin't see them as a power back in the 70's or 80's. Only after many of the true power programs left D2 are they now able to dominate it.

[IowaBison]

It's sad, but I agree with BisonBacker.

How many truly classy programs are left in DII?

5?

UND
GVSU
Pittsburg State
North Alabama
Northwest Missouri

?

I'd really like to see GVSU move up. They would be a great addition to the Mid-Con/GWFC.

Probably ain't gonna happen.

Another thing that probably ain't gonna happen-NDSU staying in the top 100 of the sag.

[kchats]

DII has been trying for years to annoint someone as the most dominant program so they didn't have to say NDSU was that team. Remember North Alabama? After they won their 3 they were supposed to surpass NDSU but it came out later they cheated to win the 3 they did win and got put on sanctions. NWMSU was another replacement.

None of them can hold a candle to the dominant Bison teams.

[Bisonguy]

Bob Eblen national columnst for D2 football points out how dominating GVSU has been in D2 the last five yrs. *They are closing in on the BISON for all time greatness.

http://www.d2football.com/*

I don't know how you can say that with the division as watered down as it is. *The Bison dominated D2 when D2 wasn't full of a bunch of cupcakes and it meant something to win the D2 crown. *I don't think I would say they are catching up with NDSU and the Dominance we had. *Its altogether different division now. *I will still be the first to congratulate them but I didin't see them as a power back in the 70's or 80's. *Only after many of the true power programs left D2 are they now able to dominate it.


Seriously, how many of the "dominant" DII programs were around when NDSU was starting their dynasty of the 80's? Many, if not most, of the dominant DII programs had just left for the newly formed DI-AA. Take a look at the schools that were in the DII national championship before NDSU made their run in the 80's.

As much of a Bison homer as I am, I find it difficult to fathom that NDSU could have been as great of a dynasty in the 80's had Louisiana Tech, Western Kentucky, Central Michigan, Delaware, Montana State, Akron, Lehigh, Jacksonville State, Eastern Illinois, Youngstown State, and SW Texas State not have left DII for DI.

[BisonBacker]

Bob Eblen national columnst for D2 football points out how dominating GVSU has been in D2 the last five yrs. *They are closing in on the BISON for all time greatness.

http://www.d2football.com/*

I don't know how you can say that with the division as watered down as it is. *The Bison dominated D2 when D2 wasn't full of a bunch of cupcakes and it meant something to win the D2 crown. *I don't think I would say they are catching up with NDSU and the Dominance we had. *Its altogether different division now. *I will still be the first to congratulate them but I didin't see them as a power back in the 70's or 80's. *Only after many of the true power programs left D2 are they now able to dominate it.


Seriously, how many of the "dominant" DII programs were around when NDSU was starting their dynasty of the 80's? Many, if not most, of the dominant DII programs had just left for the newly formed DI-AA. Take a look at the schools that were in the DII national championship before NDSU made their run in the 80's.

As much of a Bison homer as I am, I find it difficult to fathom that NDSU could have been as great of a dynasty in the 80's had Louisiana Tech, Western Kentucky, Central Michigan, Delaware, Montana State, Akron, Lehigh, Jacksonville State, Eastern Illinois, Youngstown State, and SW Texas State not have left DII for DI.


So your saying the teams we had with Bentrim, Beachy ect. ect. ect would have not been able to compete with these teams? You mean to say that NDSU and the dominance we had then is on par with D2 in the 90's and the present? I will give you the benefit of the doubt that we may not have won as many championships (we'll never know) but to infer that D2 of today is on par with when NDSU in the 80's was dominating I have to respectfully disagree. That by the way is not being a homer but telling it like it is.

[Bisonguy]

DII has been trying for years to annoint someone as the most dominant program so they didn't have to say NDSU was that team. *Remember North Alabama? *After they won their 3 they were supposed to surpass NDSU but it came out later they cheated to win the 3 they did win and got put on sanctions. *NWMSU was another replacement.

None of them can hold a candle to the dominant Bison teams.

UNA was never on NCAA sanctions. They funded too many grants before any of their national championships. They placed themselves on a self-imposed three grant reduction (this was during their championship run), and the NCAA later ruled that the self-imposed sanctions were sufficient for the over-awarding violations.

[ralph]

I wouldn't give to much credit to a poll that has the DII champ higher than the I-AA champ.How about a ranking that doesn't rate the opponents of I-AA that are not D-I? Sag sags.

[kchats]

Bob Eblen national columnst for D2 football points out how dominating GVSU has been in D2 the last five yrs. *They are closing in on the BISON for all time greatness.

http://www.d2football.com/*

I don't know how you can say that with the division as watered down as it is. *The Bison dominated D2 when D2 wasn't full of a bunch of cupcakes and it meant something to win the D2 crown. *I don't think I would say they are catching up with NDSU and the Dominance we had. *Its altogether different division now. *I will still be the first to congratulate them but I didin't see them as a power back in the 70's or 80's. *Only after many of the true power programs left D2 are they now able to dominate it.


Seriously, how many of the "dominant" DII programs were around when NDSU was starting their dynasty of the 80's? Many, if not most, of the dominant DII programs had just left for the newly formed DI-AA. Take a look at the schools that were in the DII national championship before NDSU made their run in the 80's.

As much of a Bison homer as I am, I find it difficult to fathom that NDSU could have been as great of a dynasty in the 80's had Louisiana Tech, Western Kentucky, Central Michigan, Delaware, Montana State, Akron, Lehigh, Jacksonville State, Eastern Illinois, Youngstown State, and SW Texas State not have left DII for DI.


NDSU played Jacksonville State, SW Texas State and Central Michigan during their run. They also played Cal Poly and UC Davis.

[Bisonguy]

Bob Eblen national columnst for D2 football points out how dominating GVSU has been in D2 the last five yrs. *They are closing in on the BISON for all time greatness.

http://www.d2football.com/*

I don't know how you can say that with the division as watered down as it is. *The Bison dominated D2 when D2 wasn't full of a bunch of cupcakes and it meant something to win the D2 crown. *I don't think I would say they are catching up with NDSU and the Dominance we had. *Its altogether different division now. *I will still be the first to congratulate them but I didin't see them as a power back in the 70's or 80's. *Only after many of the true power programs left D2 are they now able to dominate it.


Seriously, how many of the "dominant" DII programs were around when NDSU was starting their dynasty of the 80's? Many, if not most, of the dominant DII programs had just left for the newly formed DI-AA. Take a look at the schools that were in the DII national championship before NDSU made their run in the 80's.

As much of a Bison homer as I am, I find it difficult to fathom that NDSU could have been as great of a dynasty in the 80's had Louisiana Tech, Western Kentucky, Central Michigan, Delaware, Montana State, Akron, Lehigh, Jacksonville State, Eastern Illinois, Youngstown State, and SW Texas State not have left DII for DI.


So your saying the teams we had with Bentrim, Beachy ect. ect. ect would have not been able to compete with these teams? *You mean to say that NDSU and the dominance we had then is on par with D2 in the 90's and the present? *I will give you the benefit of the doubt that we may not have won as many championships (we'll never know) but to infer that D2 of today is on par with when NDSU in the 80's was dominating I have to respectfully disagree. *That by the way is not being a homer but telling it like it is.

I'm in now way discounting the championships from the 80's and '90, just trying to illustrate the point that DII has, and probably always will, be in a state of flux. NDSU may have won just as many championships, but it's impossible to tell. It certainly would not have been any easier had those teams remained in DII.

The DII of the 90's is not like the DII of the 80's, just like the DII of the 80's was not like the DII *of the 70's. A quick look at the participants of the DII national championship from 1973 to 1990 shows that only four of the those schools are still members of DII.

Many of the top DII schools have moved to DI. Couple that with the numerous financial aid reductions, and no, DII ain't what she used to be. The only issue is when the slide began, which IMO, is when DI-AA was formed (1978). *

[Bisonguy]

kchats,

NDSU never played Central Michigan. They won the DII national championship in 1974, and then moved to DI (no A's at that time).

NDSU vs. Jacksonville State: 0-2
NDSU vs. (SW) Texas State: 0-1

[kchats]

Must have been Northern Michigan. *They opened up against a Michigan team quite often in the 80's. *What was NDSU's record against Cal Poly prior to playing them again in I-AA? *I remember the Jacksonville State playoff games they were hard fought and could have gone either way.

[Bisonguy]

Yeah, NDSU played Northern Michigan quite often (10-4, NDSU leads the series overall). They are one of the few teams that appeared in the DII national championship prior to 1990 and are still members of DII.

NDSU was 2-1 against Cal-Poly while they were still members of DI.

[Dakota]

The average age of most of the people posting must be under 40. That leaves 40 years of an average life expectancy out of most discussions. I'm somewhere in the middle of all of that but the thing I notice the most is how little historical understanding of the past and vision for the future is provided by some presenters. And to the heart of all of these discussions THIS IS ON TOPIC!

[broke_back_mnt]

All teams in the Division play by the same rules. Im sure the teams playing now see a huge challenge in winning the D2 national title, as big as it ever was for sure. At one time our program was tops in D2. Thats no more or less an achievement now than then.

[BisonMav]

Seriously, how many of the "dominant" DII programs were around when NDSU was starting their dynasty of the 80's? Many, if not most, of the dominant DII programs had just left for the newly formed DI-AA. Take a look at the schools that were in the DII national championship before NDSU made their run in the 80's.

As much of a Bison homer as I am, I find it difficult to fathom that NDSU could have been as great of a dynasty in the 80's had Louisiana Tech, Western Kentucky, Central Michigan, Delaware, Montana State, Akron, Lehigh, Jacksonville State, Eastern Illinois, Youngstown State, and SW Texas State not have left DII for DI.

Lost to Montana St twice the year they won (1976), and split with YSU overall

[BisonBacker]

All teams in the Division play by the same rules. *Im sure the teams playing now see a huge challenge in winning the D2 national title, as big as it ever was for sure. *At one time our program was tops in D2. *Thats no more or less an achievement now than then.



I agree with you in one respect and that is that winning any title at any level is a big deal. I do still maintain that its comparing apples to oranges when you look at the level of competition. Just look at who's considered DII now as opposed to even the 80's timeframe. It's not the same D2, you can argue its still an accomplishment which it is but the original comment regarding GVSU approaching NDSU's domninance is not completely true. Yes they are dominating the division but it's a different division with lower qualtiy opponents as opposed to just 20 years ago. You can argue that all day long but it won't change the facts that the level of competition in D2 has suffered which is exactly one of the reasons we moved up. We wanted to play peer institutions not the D2's which are nothing more then DIII's of years ago.

[broke_back_mnt]

True, there were more scholarships back in the day. *As a result its likely that overall the teams were better then, but thats subjective too. The champion is the champion. *

"Over the last five years the Lakers have gone 65-5, reached the national championship game four times, and won three titles. They've done it with different head coaches, different players, and completely different styles of play. Success is becoming so routine that GVSU fans no longer need a map to find their way around Florence."

Eblen is right. *GVSU is a dynasty. *

One thing Ive learned is the difficulty if not futility of trying to compare across division lines. *That to me is the big weakness to Masseys ratings. *

[Scooter]

GVSU won three national championships last year Football, Volleyball, and women's BB

God... they kind of sound like the new Bison of DII.

[RedRiver]

GVSU also won their third straight DII Director's Cup during 2005-06.

http://nacda.cstv.com/sports/directorscup/spec-rel/061906aal.html

Former Bison NCC foes Nebraska Omaha finished #3 and Mn. Mankato #9 in the final Director's Cup standings.

[Bison_Dan]

GVSU also won their third straight DII Director's Cup during 2005-06. *

http://nacda.cstv.com/sports/directorscup/spec-rel/061906aal.html

Former Bison NCC foes Nebraska Omaha finished #3 and Mn. Mankato #9 in the final Director's Cup standings.

I thought that the school up north was the dominate dii team now? At lease they keep telling everyone they are. Maybe someone should tell them!

[kchats]

GVSU won three national championships last year Football, Volleyball, and women's BB

God... they kind of sound like the new Bison of DII.

I think GVSU has over 20,000 students so they probably should be a division I school.

[IowaBison]

and are in a metro area with more than 500,000 people.

[imported_admin]

A correction:

North Alabama did NOT cheat to win those titles. That happened well before their championship run.

[Dakota]

A correction:

North Alabama did NOT cheat to win those titles. That happened well before their championship run.

Objective perspective is a refreshing change, Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TransAmBison]

A correction:

North Alabama did NOT cheat to win those titles. That happened well before their championship run.

It has been a while so I guess I can't claim perfect clarity, but I really believe the above statement is incorrect. I believe this incident came about right after their third straight championship, and they were placed on probation, ending their dynasty.

[tony]

A correction:

North Alabama did NOT cheat to win those titles. That happened well before their championship run.

It has been a while so I guess I can't claim perfect clarity, but I really believe the above statement is incorrect. *I believe this incident came about right after their third straight championship, and they were placed on probation, ending their dynasty.

No, it's correct and I'll repeat it.

North Alabama did NOT cheat to win those championships.

Jeff Whitten from North Alabama has explained this over and over again. There were never any NCAA violations found at North Alabama. Here's what I understand happened from his explanations: UNA ran a check on their financial aid and found that athletes were getting more need-based grants than the rest of the student body, but it wasn't that big of a difference. Anyway, North Alabama imposed penalties on themselves and reported it to the NCAA. The NCAA looked at everything and couldn't tell if there had been an NCAA violation. The kicker: this happened BEFORE North Alabama's championship run. They were never placed on probation or anything - this is just internet gossip that has gotten out of hand.

Besides, if we have to tear down the accomplishments of other folks to make ourselves look better, we must really suck. Think of all those years that NDSU was accused by a bunch of smirky little clowns (aka UND fans) of only winning championships because they bought home games throughout the playoffs... heck, plenty of Bison fans believe that now too even though it's a complete crock of crap.

Anyway, I'm going to insist the burden of proof goes to the accusers on this one.

Here's what UNA's SID replied to somebody who asked this very question:


"No, UNA has never been on NCAA probation. The incidents that are being discussed happened from 1989-91 and involved the financial aid office.

In 1992 UNA self imposed a three scholarship reduction on the football program while the financial aid situation was being reviewed. UNA won all three national championships with three LESS scholarships than the NCAA limit. The catch is that it wasnt until after the 1995 championship that the NCAA finally ruled that there was no willful violation and that UNA's self-imposed penalties more than covered the over-awardings from previous years." - from a siouxsports.com thread where they were complaining about cheating at UNA, recently reposted at d2football.com where I saw it.

[BisonBacker]

I can't speak for others here and I wasn't tearing down their (GVSU) accomplishments in any way. *As a matter of fact I said I congratulate them. *What I was pointing out was how D2 has changed since the Bison had *our glory days in D2 as opposed to the division as it is today. * Why is it any debate is viewed as negative or in some way trying to demean others? *If your comment was meant for someone else Tony then please disregard. *