Cleveland State drops Wrestling

[AKBison]

Another DI program bites the dust. They are adding Men's Lacrosse in its place....

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/03/wrestling_supporters_need_to_s.html

[BYZEN]

Butt hockey.......
Sent from my Windows phone using Tapatalk

[AKBison]

If Larson ever tried this here I hope we would run him out of town before the ink was dry.

[Christopher Moen]

A little known fact about the relatively new Cleveland State AD, John C. Parry; he was a lacrosse player. Here's a few tidbits from his Cleveland State info page:


A native of Marcellus, N.Y., Parry attended Brown University where he was a two-time All-Ivy League pass receiver and co-captain of the football team while also earning varsity letters in basketball and lacrosse.


A life-long lover of the sport of lacrosse, Parry served two stints on the NCAA Men's Lacrosse committee. The first from 1980-87 while he was at Brown and then again from 1994-98 while at Butler, becoming one of a handful of people to be selected chair of the committee twice, doing so in both 1986-87 and 1997-98.

Also, his wife, Candi, is an assistant coach for women's lacrosse at Baldwin Wallace University. Their daughter, Ashley, competes in women's lacrosse for Wooster.

Wrestling isn't a victim of Title IX as much as the administration would want the public to believe, but rather the victim of someone's self interest. In regards to the Title IX excuse, this issue is simple to solve for wrestling, just add women's wrestling.

Sure is going to be interesting when the MAC and the Cleveland Sports Commission host the 2018 NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships at the Quicken Loans Arena.

[1998braves64]

A little known fact about the relatively new Cleveland State AD, John C. Parry; he was a lacrosse player. Here's a few tidbits from his Cleveland State info page:





Also, his wife, Candi, is an assistant coach for women's lacrosse at Baldwin Wallace University. Their daughter, Ashley, competes in women's lacrosse for Wooster.

Wrestling isn't a victim of Title IX as much as the administration would want the public to believe, but rather the victim of someone's self interest. In regards to the Title IX excuse, this issue is simple to solve for wrestling, just add women's wrestling.

Sure is going to be interesting when the MAC and the Cleveland Sports Commission host the 2018 NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships at the Quicken Loans Arena.


Might be a bit of drift here, going to my son's wrestling tournament this year there are a lot of girls wrestling at that age (elementary), just read article about the gal in 7th grade from Fargo going to the national tournament and they talked about how many women's wrestling teams were getting started in college. Wondering if NDSU may look at starting up women's wrestling especially if men's being in big 12?

[AKBison]

No to Womens Wrestling. It is fun and cute to watch when they are little but not so much when they get older. Let Jamestown handle women's college wrestling. It is like the difference between Mens and women's basketball. Athletically speaking 99% of them wrestle a notch below the men which translates to not so much fun to watch. I am all for ladies who want to wrestle but it is not a good fit at NDSU. I would much rather see us add something our peers already compete in; tennis, S&D, etc..

[1998braves64]

No to Womens Wrestling. It is fun and cute to watch when they are little but not so much when they get older. Let Jamestown handle women's college wrestling. It is like the difference between Mens and women's basketball. Athletically speaking 99% of them wrestle a notch below the men which translates to not so much fun to watch. I am all for ladies who want to wrestle but it is not a good fit at NDSU. I would much rather see us add something our peers already compete in; tennis, S&D, etc..

Not trying to rip on you AK even though I quoted you.

Somehow I get the feeling this was said about a lot of women's sports when they first started. Because athletically women and men aren't ever going to be on the same plane no matter how you cut it, body skeletal frame and muscle strength are different, so never should really compare the two to each other in my opinion. It's seeing them compete with those that they're on par with not on how they can wow you with physical ability. Men's sports will always be faster and thereby more exciting to those watching that are only after that portion of sports.

I can see not doing it because none of our peers are would makes sense. But from articles I've read many HS are now picking it up. Probably only a matter of time before it becomes NCAA sanctioned, hard to say if any Div I schools would start a program as right now it's all smaller schools that have teams, so until it starts hitting Div I, I doubt NDSU even considers it.

[Christopher Moen]

No to Womens Wrestling. It is fun and cute to watch when they are little but not so much when they get older. Let Jamestown handle women's college wrestling. It is like the difference between Mens and women's basketball. Athletically speaking 99% of them wrestle a notch below the men which translates to not so much fun to watch. I am all for ladies who want to wrestle but it is not a good fit at NDSU. I would much rather see us add something our peers already compete in; tennis, S&D, etc..

Never compare men's athletic ability to women, or vice versa. Everyone knows why they don't compete against one another once puberty hits - testosterone. Whether or not you want to watch them wrestle at the highest level, they're are from being boring (right now that belongs to my personal style of Greco-Roman):



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3jBcb670_Y


With that said, the point of adding women's wrestling, which is growing and exists at a lot of small colleges, is that sports programs with a female counterpart usually don't get cut. Right now, there are no Division I, II or III programs for women's wrestling. I think having a female counterpart will help the men's programs exist at the college level as it is cheap to fund and helps fill the Title IX requirements.

[Christopher Moen]

I can see not doing it because none of our peers are would makes sense. But from articles I've read many HS are now picking it up. Probably only a matter of time before it becomes NCAA sanctioned, hard to say if any Div I schools would start a program as right now it's all smaller schools that have teams, so until it starts hitting Div I, I doubt NDSU even considers it.

You're pretty much spot on with what I was originally trying to convey. I'm not asking for NDSU or any school to add Division I wrestling for women, but instead of cutting men's wrestling programs to fit Title IX requirements, just add its female counterpart. It's cheap to add because the facilities are already built. Compare that to women's rowing, where back in the late 90's schools were adding the sport to try to create more athletic scholarships for women to balance the huge amount that were doled out to men playing football. Arizona State was so desperate to add women's rowing they literally had to create lake for the team. One of the biggest problems for women's athletics is that there isn't a sport equivalent to football in regards to scholarships. I feel women's wrestling with maybe 20 scholarships per team can help fix that deficit.

[1998braves64]

You're pretty much spot on with what I was originally trying to convey. I'm not asking for NDSU or any school to add Division I wrestling for women, but instead of cutting men's wrestling programs to fit Title IX requirements, just add its female counterpart. It's cheap to add because the facilities are already built. Compare that to women's rowing, where back in the late 90's schools were adding the sport to try to create more athletic scholarships for women to balance the huge amount that were doled out to men playing football. Arizona State was so desperate to add women's rowing they literally had to create lake for the team. One of the biggest problems for women's athletics is that there isn't a sport equivalent to football in regards to scholarships. I feel women's wrestling with maybe 20 scholarships per team can help fix that deficit.


Agreed, it will be a simple add for schools who already have men's.

[AKBison]

Agreed on the fact that I would rather add women's wrestling instead of dropping men's sports. In regards to my comment about women's wrestling and not competing like the men has nothing to do with them being "lesser" or not athletic enough or however you were putting it. From a spectators point of view, women's wrestling is about like watching the WNBA after watching an NBA game 7 in the finals. It's still the same sport but the way it is played (or wrestled) is not the same. Again, I am talking from a fan of the sport perspective. More power to the ladies who participate in it though, good for them and I am glad they have the opportunity. If adding it the list of emerging ncaa sports allows more DI schools to keep Mens wrestling or even bring the sport back then I am all for it. Let's just not pretend it is something that it's not.

[Hammersmith]

I think women's wrestling has a long way to go to be considered as an NCAA emerging sport. The NWCA says there are 24 college programs, but their list of teams includes 5 duplicates. Unless there are programs not on their list, the real number is 19. None of those 19 are DI schools, and only 5 are NCAA(D2/D3). The vast majority(13) are NAIA. The last one is a junior college.


Arkansas NAIA Lyon College
California NAIA Menlo College
Illinois D2 McKendree University
NAIA Lindenwood University
Iowa NAIA Waldorf College
Kansas NJCAA Northwest Kansas Tech
Kentucky NAIA Campbellsville University
NAIA University of the Cumberlands
Missouri D2 Lindenwood University
NAIA Missouri Baptist University
NAIA Missouri Valley College
Nebraska NAIA Midland University
North Dakota NAIA University of Jamestown
Oklahoma NAIA Oklahoma City University
Oregon D3 Pacific University
NAIA Southwestern Oregon
Tennessee D2 King College
Texas NAIA Wayland Baptist
Canada D2 Simon Fraser

[roadwarrior]

The next women's sport at NDSU will most likely be hockey.

[Hammersmith]

The next women's sport at NDSU will most likely be hockey.

you are a bad man

[AKBison]

The next women's sport at NDSU will most likely be hockey.

LOL Road, my jaw dropped to the floor after reading that and it took a few seconds to remember what day it is.

[Tatanka]

I think women's wrestling has a long way to go to be considered as an NCAA emerging sport. The NWCA says there are 24 college programs, but their list of teams includes 5 duplicates. Unless there are programs not on their list, the real number is 19. None of those 19 are DI schools, and only 5 are NCAA(D2/D3). The vast majority(13) are NAIA. The last one is a junior college.




ArkansasNAIALyon College

CaliforniaNAIAMenlo College

IllinoisD2McKendree University

NAIALindenwood University

IowaNAIAWaldorf College

KansasNJCAANorthwest Kansas Tech

KentuckyNAIACampbellsville University

NAIAUniversity of the Cumberlands

MissouriD2Lindenwood University

NAIAMissouri Baptist University

NAIAMissouri Valley College

NebraskaNAIAMidland University

North DakotaNAIAUniversity of Jamestown

OklahomaNAIAOklahoma City University

OregonD3Pacific University

NAIASouthwestern Oregon

TennesseeD2King College

TexasNAIAWayland Baptist

CanadaD2Simon Fraser


So, only a few less than mens hockey?

[Tatanka]

LOL Road, my jaw dropped to the floor after reading that and it took a few seconds to remember what day it is.


He may not be kidding. My money would be on lacrosse. No purple.

I'd support it too by the way.

[Christopher Moen]

I think women's wrestling has a long way to go to be considered as an NCAA emerging sport. The NWCA says there are 24 college programs, but their list of teams includes 5 duplicates. Unless there are programs not on their list, the real number is 19. None of those 19 are DI schools, and only 5 are NCAA(D2/D3). The vast majority(13) are NAIA. The last one is a junior college.


Arkansas NAIA Lyon College
California NAIA Menlo College
Illinois D2 McKendree University
NAIA Lindenwood University
Iowa NAIA Waldorf College
Kansas NJCAA Northwest Kansas Tech
Kentucky NAIA Campbellsville University
NAIA University of the Cumberlands
Missouri D2 Lindenwood University
NAIA Missouri Baptist University
NAIA Missouri Valley College
Nebraska NAIA Midland University
North Dakota NAIA University of Jamestown
Oklahoma NAIA Oklahoma City University
Oregon D3 Pacific University
NAIA Southwestern Oregon
Tennessee D2 King College
Texas NAIA Wayland Baptist
Canada D2 Simon Fraser

Yes, women's wrestling at the college level has a long, long way to go. So far they have 22 teams that participate for the WCWA National Title (no championship for NCAA, NAIA or NJCAA divisions).

Here are the 22 teams:

1 Campbellsville (NAIA)
2 Cumberlands (NAIA)
3 Eastern Michigan State (DI)
4 Jamestown (NAIA)
5 King (DII)
6 Life (NAIA)
7 Lindenwood (DII)
8 Lindenwood-Belliville (NAIA)
9 Lyon (NAIA)
10 McKendree (NAIA)
11 Menlo College (NAIA)
12 Midland (NAIA)
13 Missouri Baptist (NAIA)
14 Missouri Valley (NAIA)
15 Oklahoma City (NAIA)
16 Ottawa (NAIA)
17 Pacific (DIII)
18 Simon Fraser (DII)
19 Southwest Oregon (JC)
20 Waldrof (NAIA)
21 Warner Pacific (NAIA)
22 Wayland Baptist (NAIA)

[Christopher Moen]

Agreed on the fact that I would rather add women's wrestling instead of dropping men's sports. In regards to my comment about women's wrestling and not competing like the men has nothing to do with them being "lesser" or not athletic enough or however you were putting it. From a spectators point of view, women's wrestling is about like watching the WNBA after watching an NBA game 7 in the finals. It's still the same sport but the way it is played (or wrestled) is not the same. Again, I am talking from a fan of the sport perspective. More power to the ladies who participate in it though, good for them and I am glad they have the opportunity. If adding it the list of emerging ncaa sports allows more DI schools to keep Mens wrestling or even bring the sport back then I am all for it. Let's just not pretend it is something that it's not.

I agree, adding women's sports isn't done to draw fans. It's meant as a way to give women an equal opportunity to participate in athletics (hopefully a sport they love) and pay for their education. Then again, outside of football and basketball, do any other college sports really attract average sports fans? For the most part no and that's why they're referred to as niche sports. They only attract fans that have a personal connection to the sport.

This includes my sport of wresting. In regards to watchability, women's wrestling isn't the least in my opinion. As I previously state, that belongs to my personal style of Greco-Roman wrestling. Due to the strange rule changes by FILA (now known as United Wrestling World) made in the past 10 to 15 years, Greco-Roman has gone from an art of athletes throwing people to pushing plodders. Here's a perfect example of unwatchable wrestling (I dare you to try to watch the whole match):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxg2p_3BUTM

I sat by one of UWW's top delegates during this match and told him that unless they change the rules where wrestlers have to actually wrestle, Greco-Roman is going to be done after 2016 because this crap is in no way a sport and looks nothing like sport once ruled by Karelin.

[BYZEN]

I agree, adding women's sports isn't done to draw fans. It's meant as a way to give women an equal opportunity to participate in athletics (hopefully a sport they love) and pay for their education. Then again, outside of football and basketball, do any other college sports really attract average sports fans? For the most part no and that's why they're referred to as niche sports. They only attract fans that have a personal connection to the sport.

This includes my sport of wresting. In regards to watchability, women's wrestling isn't the least in my opinion. As I previously state, that belongs to my personal style of Greco-Roman wrestling. Due to the strange rule changes by FILA (now known as United Wrestling World) made in the past 10 to 15 years, Greco-Roman has gone from an art of athletes throwing people to pushing plodders. Here's a perfect example of unwatchable wrestling (I dare you to try to watch the whole match):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxg2p_3BUTM

I sat by one of UWW's top delegates during this match and told him that unless they change the rules where wrestlers have to actually wrestle, Greco-Roman is going to be done after 2016 because this crap is in no way a sport and looks nothing like sport once ruled by Karelin.


The sad part of it is that the old Greco and Freestyle tournaments I competed in back in the 70-80's are gone. That type of wrestling mommas little boy could get hurt and we wouldn't want that so now it is watered down to this crap. I agree that if they don't change something before the Olympics this sport will not be back. IMHO this is exactly why the IOC dropped it once already.

[Christopher Moen]

The sad part of it is that the old Greco and Freestyle tournaments I competed in back in the 70-80's are gone. That type of wrestling mommas little boy could get hurt and we wouldn't want that so now it is watered down to this crap. I agree that if they don't change something before the Olympics this sport will not be back. IMHO this is exactly why the IOC dropped it once already.

It was one of the reasons why the IOC wanted wrestling out, but very minor. For the most part, the IOC was tired of the shenanigans that the FILA (now called UWW) head officials were presenting. These actions included the illogical rule changes, corrupt referees, mistreatment of National Governing Bodies and plain out disrespect towards the IOC itself. We still have a lot of work to repair this damage, but at least we got rid of the riffraff.

In regards to college wrestling, there's a lot of work to do along with the other Olympic Sports: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/u-s--olympic-committee--candidly-concerned--non-revenue-college-sports-will-be-cut-212917571-ncaab.html

[BYZEN]

It was one of the reasons why the IOC wanted wrestling out, but very minor. For the most part, the IOC was tired of the shenanigans that the FILA (now called UWW) head officials were presenting. These actions included the illogical rule changes, corrupt referees, mistreatment of National Governing Bodies and plain out disrespect towards the IOC itself. We still have a lot of work to repair this damage, but at least we got rid of the riffraff.

In regards to college wrestling, there's a lot of work to do along with the other Olympic Sports: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/u-s--olympic-committee--candidly-concerned--non-revenue-college-sports-will-be-cut-212917571-ncaab.html

Now this is what we need to hear. You can see I had assumed the rules changes were involved, I also had heard you mention previously of the corrupt referees, but I wasn't going to beat that dead horse for Indy's sake. :hide: A man with your position should know what really is happening and I for one would like to know if they may change the rules back so Greco-Roman becomes a decent sport again?

As to the Non-Revenue Olympic sports being cut by schools, we hear about it all the time, there are a whole faction on this board that would sacrifice every other sport for football only if it were up to them.