Please no more DII games

[BisonBacker]

As much fun as it is to go to Bison games when we play DII teams how much can you take away from a game like that? Lots of speculation on the board this morning about the game and how we did but how do you really know or can one objectively evaluate how our O Line or D Line played? Basically any aspect of the game is going to be hard to scrutinize and I'm not trying to knock Concordia St. Paul. Some are saying the same thing over on the gopher board about them playing NDSU. For us however that will be a real test. Yes it is an easy paycheck for Concordia and maybe it helps them but it certainly does nothing for NDSU. I think and I could be wrong and time will prove me either way but I think our game with Minnesota will be a better game for them then this game was for us. Not sure either other then the money what this game did for Concordia St. Paul. It's not like they were looking at moveing up and wanted to evaluate how far they have to go. I just hope we have no more on the sched at all. :-/

[broke_back_mnt]

Somebody said they only have 12 scholies. thats about 50 less than NDSU. We will about 20 fewer than the Gophers.

It was a good game for NDSU. It wasnt a nail biter or anything but a lot of guys got a lot of game experience. Phil Hansen was saying after the game that the NDSU first team look very good but he was still unsure about the reserves. That tells you that we need experience. There are better D2s out there. Augi could have probably done as well, but its a warm up game not a national championship game.

Its my feeling that this was a good game for us and we are better prepared for the test to come. The big drawback in my mind is the week off. Essentially we have 2 first games.

[IowaBison]

I have nothing against playing a relatively non-competitive game at home to start the season.

There are many benefits, primarily evaluating players at game speed.


However, as I fan, I would prefer not to see us play teams that we can beat 66-7. That eliminates pretty much all DII and non-scholly DI teams.

The only DII team I wouldn't mind us playing is UND. The only non-schollys: Drake and San Diego. Drake as they aren't too far away and San Diego as a GWFC teaser.


There are a number of decent DI teams that NDSU can manhandle, let's get them to come to the Fargodome the Thursday before Labor Day.

[NDSUstudent]

As long as NDSU is in a 5 or even 6 team Great West we will have a D-II on the schedule every year because a D-II provides a home game with no return necessary. For those of you who don't want anymore D-II's you better get on the UND ,USD, and San Diego to the Great West bandwagon so Gene Taylor doesn't have to schedule 7 non-conference games a year.

[IowaBison]

?

I missed the memo that stated that all DI teams require a return game.

Better send that to Valpo and every ooc team that played in Missoula in the past five years.

[mikelsch]

I agree - no more non-DI games. I understand the warm-up and evaluating talent thing, but that only is productive for about the first half. When you are playing against inferior opponents, how much talent evaluating and problem solving is actually accomplished?

Besides, once playoff eligible --- the selection committee ignores non-DI wins. As the previous poster mentioned, there are plenty of DI schools out there. Schedule a non/partial scholarship DI school if a warm-up home game is needed...at least you would get 'credit' for it.

[NDSUstudent]

?

I missed the memo that stated that all DI teams require a return game.

Better send that to Valpo and every ooc team that played in Missoula in the past five years.

Montana also has a D-II team on the schedule every year and they have the luxury of having 8 conference games. It woud cost a lot of money for NDSU to do what Montana does when it come to non-conference scheduling. I wonder if some people realize just how hard it is to find 7 non-conference games and how hard it would be to find 7 non-conference DI games every year. With the situation NDSU is in nobody should be complaining about 1 D-II game because things could be much worse, just look at SDSU's schedule.

[Scooter]

I personally would like NDSU to kick the crud out of Grand Valley State.

[IowaBisonToo]

Pitt St. How about Delta State??? ;) Should make that one the last game of the season and play it on old Dakotah Field.

[IowaBison]

Montana also has a D-II team on the schedule every year

that has nothing to do with my point



and they have the luxury of having 8 conference games.

i don't think that really does either



It woud cost a lot of money for NDSU to do what Montana does when it come to non-conference scheduling.

So you're asserting that scheduling one more DI team is going to break the bank? ::)



With situation NDSU is in nobody should be complaining about 1 D-II game because things could be much worse, just look at SDSU's schedule.

Sure, it could be worse. I think it can be better.

[rabidrabbit]

?

I missed the memo that stated that all DI teams require a return game.

Better send that to Valpo and every ooc team that played in Missoula in the past five years.

Montana also has a D-II team on the schedule every year and they have the luxury of having 8 conference games. It woud cost a lot of money for NDSU to do what Montana does when it come to non-conference scheduling. I wonder if some people realize just how hard it is to find 7 non-conference games and how hard it would be to find 7 non-conference DI games every year. With situation NDSU is in nobody should be complaining about 1 D-II game because things could be much worse, just look at SDSU's schedule.

Yes, ;) The Jacks have creampuffs of a major variety at home for two games. One is 11/03 when we would've played UNC. But they weren't available for a beating......

4 schools being played for the first time this year, and 7 friggen away games. Not a good schedule. Great opponents, with 7 pre-season top 25 picks. Rough tracks for Rabbits this year. But, at the same time, if we are to be an elite I-AA team, we need to get some of these tough road wins.

[RedRiver]

With the unbelievable tough 2006 Bison football schedule one DII game is warranted. And it may be that way in future years also.

[broke_back_mnt]

Why dont we just call the D2 game an exhibition?

[TheDoctor]

I think some people especially traveling from a distance feel cheated when they travel on a week night and only get a quarter of solid football. Not me though, I travel 1.5 miles from my north fargo home and enjoy the opening game butt whipping. ;)

[WYOBISONMAN]

With the schedule this year I am fine with the Concordia - St. Paul game.....

[4mcruenomore]

I enjoyed the game, specially since the Golden Bears travel out to Big Orange on Sept. 23rd. And I also feel like there's nothing wrong with giving some other schools a shot, if that didn't happen we wouldn't be playing in the MetroDome, or we wouldn't have played in Missoula a couple years ago....

[DIBISON]

With the unbelievable tough 2006 Bison football schedule one DII game is warranted. *And it may be that way in future years also. *

How true and it will still happen in the future, but thats o.k. with me.

[semobison]

Lets not be all high and mighty, we have a hell of a tough schedule a head of us. Lets be thankfull Ball State and Minnesota are willing to schedule down!

[BisonBacker]

Lets not be all high and mighty, we have a hell of a tough schedule a head of us. Lets be thankfull Ball State and Minnesota are willing to schedule down!
No one's trying to be high and mighty. I would say that if we get creamed by Minnesota by almost 60 points then we shouldn't be playing them anymore either. I know the schedule is the result of not being in a full conference (more then 5 teams counting ourselves) but as some others have pointed out here I have to believe that there are some 1AA's out there that need some games. The problem then I guess is trying to work out the details about home or away games. Either way I don't think a team like Concordia St. Paul really tells you that much about your football team and how well the players are progressing. Ball State I can see scheduling a game with us Minnesota on the other hand will remain to be seen but I can understand their fans feelings to a point. At least we are still division 1 and the biggest difference we will probably see with them is speed followed by depth.

[semobison]

We will find out a lot more about our team as the season progresses. I hope what we got out of the CSP game is that we have the chance to have a hell of a team this season. With our schedule this year an easy opener wasnt a bad idea. If we get beat by 40 or 60 against Minnesota we get to go down there next year wether we want to or not/

[02Bison]

I enjoyed the game, specially since the Golden Bears travel out to Big Orange on Sept. 23rd. *And I also feel like there's nothing wrong with giving some other schools a shot, if that didn't happen we wouldn't be playing in the MetroDome, or we wouldn't have played in Missoula a couple years ago....

I was going to mention something along these lines when this thread first started. *If games like this never got scheduled, there would never be games like the Bison second half whooping of Montana in Missoula 2003! *Don't forget where the Bison came from because its an important part of who they have and will become! *

[kchats]

If they can't find a division I-AA team to bring to the dome they should at least play a division II team that is fully funded, 36 scholarships, that is where NDSU came from not a team that is limited by its conference to 21 scholarships. I don't think a 36 scholarship team would have done any better and I believe there won't be a division II team on the schedule when NDSU is playoff eligible.

[02Bison]

If they can't find a division I-AA team to bring to the dome they should at least play a division II team that is fully funded, 36 scholarships, that is where NDSU came from not a team that is limited by its conference to 21 scholarships. *I don't think a 36 scholarship team would have done any better and I believe there won't be a division II team on the schedule when NDSU is playoff eligible.

How's Valpo fit in then? They have "0" scholarships and are DI. Were you against the Valpo game? ::)

[kchats]

Valpo would have killed Concordia St. Paul. I don't see NDSU playing anymore non-scholarship division I-AAA teams either. I don't think the administration had much of an idea how good Valpo would be when they were scheduled. It is hard to tell when they play similar teams and they do have the division I moniker. I wasn't against playing Valpo then but I would be now. Like I said if they have to schedule a division II team next year that team needs 36 scholarships and don't expect to see a division II team on the schedule in 2008 when they are eligible for the playoffs. Teams in the Great West Conference can't afford to schedule division II teams because even if you win the conference that game against a division II opponent will keep you out of the playoffs, just ask Cal Poly from 2 years ago. If UND makes the move to division I, assuming they can get a handle on their $1 million athletic department deficit in division II, will you still want to play division II teams every season?

[02Bison]

Valpo would have killed Concordia St. Paul. *I don't see NDSU playing anymore non-scholarship division I-AAA teams either. *I don't think the administration had much of an idea how good Valpo would be when they were scheduled. *It is hard to tell when they play similar teams and they do have the division I moniker. *I wasn't against playing Valpo then but I would be now. *Like I said if they have to schedule a division II team next year that team needs 36 scholarships and don't expect to see a division II team on the schedule in 2008 when they are eligible for the playoffs. *Teams in the Great West Conference can't afford to schedule division II teams because even if you win the conference that game against a division II opponent will keep you out of the playoffs, just ask Cal Poly from 2 years ago. *If UND makes the move to division I, assuming they can get a handle on their $1 million athletic department deficit in division II, will you still want to play division II teams every season?
Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl will get the best schedule they can every year as they see fit. I trust whatever they put together and will not question it. Talking down about/discounting teams like Concordia St. Paul seems a bit hypocritical now that the Bison have put the shoe on the other foot so to speak. Why are you asking me about UND? I'm not a UND fan. I'm an NDSU fan and NDSU graduate. The fact remains Concordia St. Paul had more scholarships than Valpo and got beat by a similar margin with the dogs being called off early in both games.

[kchats]

I said Valpo would have pounded Concordia St. Paul and I stand by that. Oh by the way Gene and Coach Bohl have both said in 2008 there will NOT be a division II team on the schedule due to NCAA division I-AA playoff implications and the penalties imposed by playing and inferior opponent from division II. In the eyes of I-AA playoff points towards the playoffs Valpo is worth more than Concordia St. Paul since they are technically division I. Most division I-AAA (non-scholarship) teams would pound Concordia St. Paul. I saw nothing from Concordia St. Paul that led me to believe the Bison ought to schedule them again.

[semobison]

Bohl and Taylor have my trust. We WILL play whoever they line up. ::)

[NDSUstudent]

I said Valpo would have pounded Concordia St. Paul and I stand by that. *Oh by the way Gene and Coach Bohl have both said in 2008 there will NOT be a division II team on the schedule due to NCAA division I-AA playoff implications and the penalties imposed by playing and inferior opponent from division II. *In the eyes of I-AA playoff points towards the playoffs Valpo is worth more than Concordia St. Paul since they are technically division I. *Most division I-AAA (non-scholarship) teams would pound Concordia St. Paul. *I saw nothing from Concordia St. Paul that led me to believe the Bison ought to schedule them again.

CSP would beat Valpo, they have more scholarships and Valpo was just terrible. Plus NDSU is also a much better team now then they were a few years ago. My opinion on D-II games is if we can have 5 home games against all DI teams or 6 home games against 5 DI's and 1 DII give me the latter every time. I want 6 home games every year, having 5 is just not enough.

[BisonBacker]

Valpo would have killed Concordia St. Paul. *I don't see NDSU playing anymore non-scholarship division I-AAA teams either. *I don't think the administration had much of an idea how good Valpo would be when they were scheduled. *It is hard to tell when they play similar teams and they do have the division I moniker. *I wasn't against playing Valpo then but I would be now. *Like I said if they have to schedule a division II team next year that team needs 36 scholarships and don't expect to see a division II team on the schedule in 2008 when they are eligible for the playoffs. *Teams in the Great West Conference can't afford to schedule division II teams because even if you win the conference that game against a division II opponent will keep you out of the playoffs, just ask Cal Poly from 2 years ago. *If UND makes the move to division I, assuming they can get a handle on their $1 million athletic department deficit in division II, will you still want to play division II teams every season? *
Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl will get the best schedule they can every year as they see fit. *I trust whatever they put together and will not question it. *Talking down about/discounting teams like Concordia St. Paul seems a bit hypocritical now that the Bison have put the shoe on the other foot so to speak. *Why are you asking me about UND? I'm not a UND fan. I'm an NDSU fan and NDSU graduate. * The fact remains Concordia St. Paul had more scholarships than Valpo and got beat by a similar margin with the dogs being called off early in both games. *


No ones putting down Concordia St. Paul. The main reason I brought up this thread in the first place was mainly because I was reading people post about the game and talking about the development of the players. I question that kind of reasoning. I'm repeating myself here but the point is how do you truly gauge where you as a player or a for the coaches how the players are doing when your comparing it to a team as Kchats has pointed out is outgunned by scholarships? Sure the games fun to watch for about a quarter or so but your comparisons about NDSU and Montana or NDSU and Minnesota don't fly. NDSU had reasons to play Montana as the move to DI was upcoming and it was a way for NDSU to gauge how far they had to go to compete. As far as NDSU and Minnesota although NDSU is 1AA at least we are Division 1! Just becuase NDSU was a DII team at one time doesn't mean we should continue to play them now. Hell all the players on the team were High Schoolers at one time to but I don't want them playing high school teams. I'm being sarcastic here but your arguement here about playing DII teams doesn't hold water anymore. If it's just to fill a schedule (which is what this was) I would rather see a fully or partially funded D1AA team. They have to be out there but we would probably have to pay more then 30,000.00 to get them here. Hopefully this will be a mute point in a couple of years anyway but this thread does not disrespect Concordia St. Paul.

[broke_back_mnt]

Part of scheduling is who is available, who can you get. We may not have had a game if CSP hadnt stepped up.

[kchats]

Not in 2008. Can't have a division II team on the schedule in 2008 or there will be no chance for the playoffs.

Come on you guys have short memories. NDSU didn't run any of their offense against Concordia St. Paul and if they had they would have scored way over 100 points. Just because NDSU played to not run the score up from the beginning of the game doesn't make Concordia St. Paul any better than they were. They were a horrible team that doesn't appear to play sound fundamental football. They try to scheme you or trick you to make up for a lack of talent.

[NDSUstudent]

Part of scheduling is who is available, who can you get. *We may not have had a game if CSP hadnt stepped up. *

Good point, Gene Taylor tried like heck to get a home game against a I-AA team before scheduling Minnesota but there was nothing available. Getting home games against I-AA teams is not an easy task especially when you need to find 4 home games every year.

[02Bison]

No ones putting down Concordia St. Paul.

Are you sure? You are implying they are horrible and kchats has gone on to out and out say they were horrible. *I just find it funny how some here can continually bash the place NDSU built its tradition at. *I think its petty, brash, and a bit ignorant to do so. *Some of you could use a lesson or two in being humble and in supporting and focusing on the Bison rather than constantly bashing whoever the Bison are playing or played. *Trust the NDSU Administration's judgment! *That's all I'm going to say. *

[BisonMav]

*Trust the NDSU Administration's judgment!

Agreed! :)

[broke_back_mnt]

We beat them this bad when we were D2 as well. *The added scholarship resulted in about 12 more pts for us and we held them to 7.

They weren't horrible. *They were a good, conditioned, well disciplined, well coached football team that was out of its league. *They did not draw a lot of penalties, they had an athletic looking team that wasn't really outsized and they did have some speed of their own, but not enough. The fake kick was classic. They played trick football because they had to.

They came to town hoping for a better game, you can bet on that. *I dont think there is a BISON fan in the house that isnt hoping for a good showing against our DI-A opponents but if we do go down bad I hope nobody calls us horrible. *We know we arent horrible but we must also know that we can get outgunned just like CSP. *Its probably more likely for us now than any time in the past 30 yrs.

DII games are ok. *Im with the other guys and agree that if we schedule them it must be part of the plan. *I bet they have a great year in the NSIC and that they came away from the game a better football team. *I hope the BISON did too.

[BraxtonT]

No ones putting down Concordia St. Paul.

Are you sure? You are implying they are horrible and kchats has gone on to out and out say they were horrible. *I just find it funny how some here can continually bash the place NDSU built its tradition at. *I think its petty, brash, and a bit ignorant to do so. *Some of you could use a lesson or two in being humble and in supporting and focusing on the Bison rather than constantly bashing whoever the Bison are playing or played. *Trust the NDSU Administration's judgment! *That's all I'm going to say. *


This is the only part I disagree with. The tradition was built in an era with 45 scholarships during the 1980s. I am not sure what the maximum was in the 1970s or 1960s when the tradition truly began, but I do know that playing a team with only 12 that comes from a conference that limits its teams to only 21 is NOT "the place NDSU built its tradition at". It is still called Division II, but it is a totally different division than it was 20-30 years ago.

[roadwarrior]

One of the biggest reasons the game against C-SP was scheduled was because Craig Bohl and Mark Mauer were teammates at Nebraska.

[kchats]

No ones putting down Concordia St. Paul.

Are you sure? You are implying they are horrible and kchats has gone on to out and out say they were horrible. *I just find it funny how some here can continually bash the place NDSU built its tradition at. *I think its petty, brash, and a bit ignorant to do so. *Some of you could use a lesson or two in being humble and in supporting and focusing on the Bison rather than constantly bashing whoever the Bison are playing or played. *Trust the NDSU Administration's judgment! *That's all I'm going to say. *


When NDSU was building their division II tradition with 45 scholarships Concordia St. Paul was a NAIA team. Your logic is way out of whack 02Bison. I wasn't excited or worried for the game one bit because I knew it would be a complete pounding. It was when NDSU was division II so why would it be any different now that NDSU has 63 scholarships and they still hardly have any. There is no way a team cannot be called horrible when they don't even get 100 yards for a whole game.

[SDbison]

Hopefully no DII's in 2007 and definately none in 2008. Until NDSU is in a football conference that gets an autobid it will be too risky to schedule a top notch DII that we would all prefer to see. So, it is time to find a middle or lower DI-AA program that NDSU can travel to for an away opener in 2007 and then have a home opener in 2008 when playoff elligible.
Call it what you want, CSP was outclassed and the Bison only played them because of the difficulty getting teams to come to Fargo. All of DII and most of DI-AA know the Bison are near impossible to beat at home. If you want a relative position for where CSP is compared to NDSU you would have to place them somewhere back in the late 1950's. Not even sure how to compare them regarding scholarships.

[Bisonguy]

One of the biggest reasons the game against C-SP was scheduled was because Craig Bohl and Mark Mauer were teammates at Nebraska.


People have lost track of this tidbit of information. Much the same as why Mankato was tentatively on the schedule the last two years. Cornhuskers of a feather flock together.

[kchats]

Haven't lost track of the fact that they played together, sometimes you have to do what is right instead of helping a friend. Concordia St. Paul is one of the reasons NDSU, SDSU and UNC moved up to division I-AA. They have very few scholarships and their conference limits them to 21, how do you think the NSIC votes when reducing scholarships comes up? :o

[SDbison]

I don't think helping a buddy was tha main reason CSP was scheduled. Bohl and Taylor are smarter than that. I think CSP was the best option (one of few) and slightly better than a Montana Tech, etc. ;D

[Bisongold]

Hey, 15,600 fans came to see the game. THis is much better than not having a game at all. THis is also better than getting pummeled by too good of team being scheduled early in the season. I like it when the Bison win big. Much better than losing by ANY margin. We all know there are no other pushovers on the schedule so it isn't like this is happening all the time. Relax.

[Swaghook]

I bet the bunnies don't want to play any more sub DI teams either. It is always easier to accept a loss to a team at your own level then to lose to a lower tier team. :-/ :-[


If something like that ever happened to the Bison there would be calls for the whole coaching staff's heads on a platter. :o

[02Bison]

No ones putting down Concordia St. Paul.

Are you sure? You are implying they are horrible and kchats has gone on to out and out say they were horrible. *I just find it funny how some here can continually bash the place NDSU built its tradition at. *I think its petty, brash, and a bit ignorant to do so. *Some of you could use a lesson or two in being humble and in supporting and focusing on the Bison rather than constantly bashing whoever the Bison are playing or played. *Trust the NDSU Administration's judgment! *That's all I'm going to say. *


This is the only part I disagree with. *The tradition was built in an era with 45 scholarships during the 1980s. *I am not sure what the maximum was in the 1970s or 1960s when the tradition truly began, but I do know that playing a team with only 12 that comes from a conference that limits its teams to only 21 is NOT "the place NDSU built its tradition at". *It is still called Division II, but it is a totally different division than it was 20-30 years ago. Divison II is Division II whether its at 45 scholarships, 36 scholarships, or 21 scholarships as all teams in the division have the same rules and limits to follow if they so choose to fully fund their programs to the allowable limits and the competition is on the same footing relatively speaking.

[BisonMav]

Divison II is Division II whether its at 45 scholarships, 36 scholarships, or 21 scholarships as all teams in the division have the same rules and limits to follow if they so choose to fully fund their programs to the allowable limits and the competition is on the same footing relatively speaking. *

First, I am not opposed to whoever the Bison admin schedules.

BUT, DII at 45 scholarships is different than DII at 36 scholarships.

More depth if a team has 45 compared to 36 or less, therefore possibly better competition with a 63 scholarship I-AA school. 36 limit is more easily attainable by more schools. Schools with less than 36 scholarships in theory, should be more competitive with 36 scholarship schools than they should be with 45 scholarship school.

[tony]

So if it's a choice between a home opener and maybe waiting until the middle of September for the first home game, Taylor should "do what's right" and send the Bison on the road if he can't get a DI-AA game?

[BisonBacker]

No ones putting down Concordia St. Paul.

Are you sure? You are implying they are horrible and kchats has gone on to out and out say they were horrible. *I just find it funny how some here can continually bash the place NDSU built its tradition at. *I think its petty, brash, and a bit ignorant to do so. *Some of you could use a lesson or two in being humble and in supporting and focusing on the Bison rather than constantly bashing whoever the Bison are playing or played. *Trust the NDSU Administration's judgment! *That's all I'm going to say. *


Your comparing apples to oranges here. *When NDSU was at the DII level we were fully funded. *Concordia St.Paul is far from that. *You can twist it anyway you want but Concordia St. Paul would definetly be a better DII team with 36 schollies but someone mentioned 12 and I think putting a team on the field against a nearly fully funded DIAA team ranked in the top 25 is just wrong. *Yeah so now go ahead and say what you want about UWL beating SDSU. *I can already hear it coming. *Lets just agree to disagree on this point. *You like seeing teams come in and get pounded by the Bison and that offer very little if any competition. *I like to see NDSU play up and challenge themselves. *After all this move was about moving up not down. *I call em like I see em, if you don't like that or you don't agree 02Bison then your just kidding yourself. *This was no test of our team and provided very little if any ability to scrutinize our starters. *Now if you want to say that you wanted to test our 3 stringers I would say fine schedule them. *It may have been more entertaining but then you wouldn't have gotten the 59 point blowout you seem to enjoy.

[Gamehunter]

did anybody check out the GWFC homepage yet? Which school had the best showing in week 1? SDSU comes in at 2nd place with 677 votes[smiley=lolk.gif] I think it's pouring in brookings right now. [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]

[SDbison]

My advice would be for Taylor to find a mid level DI-AA team and set up a home and home series for the first game of the season in 2007 and 2008. Could even offer that NDSU would travel to their site in 2007, and play in the Fargodome in 2008. This would give NDSU an edge with the home game the first year of playoff eligibility. Then none of us could complain about the first game blowouts. Seems like there should be 60 plus teams that would fall in the middle of DI-AA rankings (between top 30 and bottom 30). Now is the time to get these games set up. For 2007 I assume NDSU already has UC Davis, SUU, and Montana State at home and SDSU, Cal Poly and Minnesota away.
Think about it, how many conference titles and playoff appearances have the Bison had since they started doing the cushy, safe, first game of the season blowouts? Maybe the Northern Arizona, Northern Michigan, etc., type games, even if away, better prepared the team?

[SDbison]

So if it's a choice between a home opener and maybe waiting until the middle of September for the first home game, Taylor should "do what's right" and send the Bison on the road if he can't get a DI-AA game?
Yes, as I commented in the previous post, this might be the best course of action if an opening DI-AA home game cannot be found.