NCAA meetings this week

[Bisonator98]

It'll be interesting what shakes out this week and what the ripple effects could be....

http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/2015/01/11/chance-changes-ncaa-convention/21615837/

[HazenBizon]

I heard Matt Larsen on the radio about a month ago and he said that NDSU was looking into the feasibility of offering "full cost of tuition" if the top conferences would go to that. He iterated that NDSU was competing more with MAC/CUSA/MWC schools for recruits than other FCS schools and that we can't let them have that advantage.

[bisonaudit]

I heard Matt Larsen on the radio about a month ago and he said that NDSU was looking into the feasibility of offering "full cost of tuition" if the top conferences would go to that. He iterated that NDSU was competing more with MAC/CUSA/MWC schools for recruits than other FCS schools and that we can't let them have that advantage.

I don't know for sure but I think that would have to be a conference level decision.

[EndZoneQB]

I don't know for sure but I think that would have to be a conference level decision.

Read between the lines?

[missingnumber7]

I don't know for sure but I think that would have to be a conference level decision.

Better to be leaning forward and have seen the feasibility or lack thereof ahead of time. It would probably make it easier if NDSU were ever approached by any of the listed conferences to say, yes we have looked at "full cost of tuition" and yes we can afford to do this or will be able to get to that level within a certain amount of time vs telling them it will take us time to look at this issue and we'll get back to them.

[bisonaudit]

Better to be leaning forward and have seen the feasibility or lack thereof ahead of time. It would probably make it easier if NDSU were ever approached by any of the listed conferences to say, yes we have looked at "full cost of tuition" and yes we can afford to do this or will be able to get to that level within a certain amount of time vs telling them it will take us time to look at this issue and we'll get back to them.

I agree. It's going to be interesting at all levels to see what sort of economic and philosophical conclusions different institutions and conferences come to and where fissures could open up.

[Tatanka]

Read between the lines?


My first thought as well.

[Bisonwinagn]

Well obviously this was going to pass. However, it raises lots of questions specifically if it relates to FCS.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24970569/power-5-leagues-pass-cost-of-attendance-proposal-dont-stop-there

[56BISON73]

Well obviously this was going to pass. However, it raises lots of questions specifically if it relates to FCS.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24970569/power-5-leagues-pass-cost-of-attendance-proposal-dont-stop-there

Interesting. I think they made a couple of good moves.

[Tatanka]

IMHO the 4-year scholly guarantee is potentially a bigger deal than the cost of attendance

[56BISON73]

IMHO the 4-year scholly guarantee is potentially a bigger deal than the cost of attendance

That is huge!

[MAKBison]

So break it down, what will this mean for NDSU

[56BISON73]

So break it down, what will this mean for NDSU

Dont think it will affect us where we are now. If there is a move up it will mean more fundraising to be on equal footing. Lots more fundraising.

[1bizon1]

Are we talking "cash stipends" to student athletes to cover misc expenses, ie plane ticket home for family emergency, car repairs, etc? If so, would these $$ be closely monitored to keep track of where spent?

[MAKBison]

Dont think it will affect us where we are now. If there is a move up it will mean more fundraising to be on equal footing. Lots more fundraising.

I would think it would affect us in recruiting. Do we win the occasional B10 battle like we do now.....I doubt it!

[56BISON73]

I would think it would affect us in recruiting. Do we win the occasional B10 battle like we do now.....I doubt it!

I think the Only battles we have won were ones where they were offered PWO or walk on status. I could be wrong.

[56BISON73]

Are we talking "cash stipends" to student athletes to cover misc expenses, ie plane ticket home for family emergency, car repairs, etc? If so, would these $$ be closely monitored to keep track of where spent?

You can bet there will be a bean counter involved.

[Hammersmith]

I think the Only battles we have won were ones where they were offered PWO or walk on status. I could be wrong.

Stick. But you can almost put an asterisk by that as his B10 offer was Rutgers.

I think we also got one or two from the ACC. I'm remembering a Pitt offer to one of our current players, but I'm blanking out on who. Don't think we've won any other P5 battles.

[BisonTru]

Do the full cost scholarships and 4 year guarantees apply to all student athletes?


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[BisonTru]

Stick. But you can almost put an asterisk by that as his B10 offer was Rutgers.

I think we also got one or two from the ACC. I'm remembering a Pitt offer to one of our current players, but I'm blanking out on who. Don't think we've won any other P5 battles.

IIRC, Marcus Collins decommitted from Pitt to come to NDSU.


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[BisonTru]

Stick. But you can almost put an asterisk by that as his B10 offer was Rutgers.

I think we also got one or two from the ACC. I'm remembering a Pitt offer to one of our current players, but I'm blanking out on who. Don't think we've won any other P5 battles.

Marcus Collins had committed to Pitt before switching to NDSU, IIRC.


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[perthbison]

Do the full cost scholarships and 4 year guarantees apply to all student athletes?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkGood question. I was only thinking football.

[EndZoneQB]

Stick. But you can almost put an asterisk by that as his B10 offer was Rutgers.

I think we also got one or two from the ACC. I'm remembering a Pitt offer to one of our current players, but I'm blanking out on who. Don't think we've won any other P5 battles.

Matt Jones - Colorado. We had a DT that had a Pitt offer? And then there was another one, Marcus Collins for sure.

[Bisonwinagn]

Not concerned about recruiting against the BCS teams since we rarely beat them anyway. However, it will be tougher to beat MW and MAC schools who offer this extra cash. I have no idea if this will apply to all divisions and all sports or what. Also this is a cash payment and not reimbursement so it will not be monitored, but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes taxable income to the players.

[Hammersmith]

Do the full cost scholarships and 4 year guarantees apply to all student athletes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Almost certain this is a yes/no/depends question. Yes, it will apply to sports beyond football. No, it will not apply to walk-ons. For some sports, it will depend on the conference.

For example, I can see the following situation develop:

The Big Ten is forced to offer full-cost scholarships to all sports because they won't be allowed to pick and choose.
To stay on equal footing, the NCHC decides to offer full cost scholarships in men's hockey(the only sport they offer).
The WCHA decides to not allow full-cost scholarships in men's or women's hockey due to costs.
The Big Sky decides to not allow full-cost scholarships thinking no other FCS conference will do it, and they aren't competitive in MBB anyway.

So UND will get to offer full-cost scholarships to only men's hockey.



In our case, I think all three of our conferences will hesitate to allow full-cost scholarships and maybe some of the other things the P5 will be adding. We don't have any P5 schools left in the WWC, and I don't think AF and Wyo will push the issue. I think the MVFC will only do it if it looks like a formal realignment is coming and enough of the conference wants to be at the same level as the G5. Don't see it now, but things could change. I question whether there's enough will within the Summit to go for it. If enough members of the Summit are committed for it to become a truly strong mid-major, then I could see it happening. But I don't think there are enough votes at the moment.

This is all guesswork and could be completely wrong.

[bisonaudit]

Not concerned about recruiting against the BCS teams since we rarely beat them anyway. However, it will be tougher to beat MW and MAC schools who offer this extra cash. I have no idea if this will apply to all divisions and all sports or what. Also this is a cash payment and not reimbursement so it will not be monitored, but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes taxable income to the players.

Taxable income, OMG, what a disaster.

[Bison 4 Life]

My wife's teaching stipend was taxable. No reason this shouldn't be.

[56BISON73]

Taxable income, OMG, what a disaster.


Tuition, books and room and board isnt taxable. I am sure the NCAA lawyers already have this figured out.

[bisonaudit]

Tuition, books and room and board isnt taxable. I am sure the NCAA lawyers already have this figured out.

Either way, it simply isn't a big deal as long as everyone knows the rules.

[56BISON73]

Either way, it simply isn't a big deal as long as everyone knows the rules.

I agree.....

[Bisonwinagn]

Tuition, books and room and board isnt taxable. I am sure the NCAA lawyers already have this figured out.

This payment is for things above and beyond those items mentioned.

[unbison]

This payment is for things above and beyond those items mentioned.

No books are not paid for currently

[56BISON73]

This payment is for things above and beyond those items mentioned.

I realize that.

[56BISON73]

No books are not paid for currently

NDSU still doesnt pay for books?

[BisBison]

NDSU still doesnt pay for books?
who buys books anyway?:hide:

[Bisonator98]

Sounds like the MVFC and Summit are leaving it up to each individual school as to whether to provide FCOA or not. Larson said NDSU will probably need to in order to compete with MAC and MWC schools for recruits.

[StL Bison Fan]

Sounds like the MVFC and Summit are leaving it up to each individual school as to whether to provide FCOA or not. Larson said NDSU will probably need to in order to compete with MAC and MWC schools for recruits.
Put this in FBS thread but I'll put this here too.

http://kfgo.com/podcasts/mike-mcfeely-show/983/matt-larsen-01-21-2015/

[Bison03]

I think this needs to be implimented at NDSU. We no longer compete with just North Dakota schools, South Dakota schools, or just other teams in our conference. We compete with Minnesota, Mountain West, MAC, and other mid major conferences for athletes. I know we would like to think that we can compete with a lot of schools like we do now with out facilities, tradition, and great coaches. But it would be easy for a kid to go to another school instead of NDSU if the other school was giving them $3,000.00 or whatever the number would be so they could buy books, fly home for holidays, and not have to get a part time job. The process of implementing all of this is one that involves a lot of factors. Who gets the money, title 9 issies, and most importantly, how to pay for it. These decisions will have to be made by Matt Larson and others in the athletic department. Listening to his interview on KFGO yesterday, it sounds to me like he was saying that it is something that NDSU will have to be doing. In my opinion, to continue to remain competitive with recruiting, this must be done.

[bisonaudit]

football plus men's and women's basketball @ $3,400 per scholarship = (85 + 13 + 15) * 3400 = 113 * 3400 = $384,200.

Team Makers gave $3,181,000 to the athletic department in 2013 (last year publicly available), raised $3,746,000 and after expenses added $310,000 to their fund balances.

So depending on what you want to compare to, just doing football, mbb and wbb cost of attendance is an extra 10 to 12% ask.

Which you may be able to raise from, just for example, 1) ~$50 per seat for the ~7,500 sideline and endzone seats that currently don't have team maker contribution requirements or 2) ~$200 per seat for the ~1,900 scholarship level seats that aren't contributing the full advertised cost of those seats.

I'm just presuming this would be a team maker thing because it seems like it's related to their mission but obviously there are any number of other options for raising the funds in the event it's decided to fund full cost of attendance.

[Bison03]

Each school can decide how they will raise the money for it. Going to the state? Forget about it, they won't give one dime. An extra $273,000 actually doesn't seem like much more to raise. I mean, if there are 15,000 tickets when you subtract the students, times 5 dollars equals $75,000. Take that times 6 games and you get $450,000. So that is one option. Another would be to increase student fees. I know most students would be against it but most students don't know or utalize most of the student fees that they are paying for now. I think the way it will be paid will be some sort of combination of increase of ticket prices, student fees, Teammaker dues, and big doners.

[56BISON73]

Each school can decide how they will raise the money for it. Going to the state? Forget about it, they won't give one dime. An extra $273,000 actually doesn't seem like much more to raise. I mean, if there are 15,000 tickets when you subtract the students, times 5 dollars equals $75,000. Take that times 6 games and you get $450,000. So that is one option. Another would be to increase student fees. I know most students would be against it but most students don't know or utalize most of the student fees that they are paying for now. I think the way it will be paid will be some sort of combination of increase of ticket prices, student fees, Teammaker dues, and big doners.

Make EVERYONE who buys season tickets a member of Teamamkers. Add 5.00 to every ticket sold as a single game ticket.

[BisonNation11]

Make EVERYONE who buys season tickets a member of Teamamkers. Add 5.00 to every ticket sold as a single game ticket.

^^THIS^^ No reason if you're a season ticket holder you shouldn't be a TeamMaker. We're to that point. 4 NC in a row, it's ok to bump everyone up to where they need to be. The demand is there. Take advantage of it.

[tjamz]

http://kfgo.com/blogs/so-many-opinions-so-little-time/953/ndsu-will-look-at-paying-stipends-to-athletes-under-new-ncaa-rule/

[MAKBison]

Make EVERYONE who buys season tickets a member of Teamamkers. Add 5.00 to every ticket sold as a single game ticket.

SU FB average game Attendance

2014--- ?
2013---18,622
2012---18,516
2011---18,516
2010---15,944
2009 ---16,515
2008 ---18,032
2007---18,141


So 5 bucks a ticket generates about 90K a game.

Note: it's expected the average cost per athlete for cost of attendance will be about $3,500.
NDSUWith 63 football scholarships, that'd be an added cost of $220,500.

Interesting would the FBS actaully be a cheaper option------Scholarships can be split in FCS, which would drive the cost higher. HMMMMM!

[bisonaudit]

SU FB average game Attendance

2014--- ?
2013---18,622
2012---18,516
2011---18,516
2010---15,944
2009 ---16,515
2008 ---18,032
2007---18,141


So 5 bucks a ticket generates about 90K a game.

Note: it's expected the average cost per athlete for cost of attendance will be about $3,500.
NDSUWith 63 football scholarships, that'd be an added cost of $220,500.

Interesting would the FBS actaully be a cheaper option------Scholarships can be split in FCS, which would drive the cost higher. HMMMMM!

there are only about 7500 seats that aren't already attached to team makers. The scholarship is many times more than the stipend and you'd be looking at 22 more of those, also the additional football scholarships wouldn't be the most expensive part of moving up.

[td577]

Scholarships can be split in FCS, which would drive the cost higher. HMMMMM!

FBS wouldn't be cheaper. What he means by saying that is you would attach the stipend to all the scholarships, not just the 63. So if you spread them out to 85, there would be 85 stipends, as well. If you were FBS, you would have 85 FULL scholarships and 85 stipends, so obviously that would be more costly.


there are only about 7500 seats that aren't already attached to team makers. The scholarship is many times more than the stipend and you'd be looking at 19 more of those, also the additional football scholarships wouldn't be the most expensive part of moving up.

Of course, with FBS double the scholarships or name a men's program with 22 scholarships to drop to comply with Title IX.

[NDSU1980]

I really think this works in NDSU's favor. We're hot right now in football attendance, and there's plenty of TeamMakers. I had planned to bump up to the next level any way and am seriously considering going up 2 levels. Probably plenty of others who could/should bump up and I agree that those who aren't TM members need to be. The point is, we can swing this easier than a lot of other schools, so that helps us all the more with recruiting. Do anything necessary to keep the best of the best playing for NDSU football and basketball.

As I said, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, how about the rest of you?

[MAKBison]

FBS wouldn't be cheaper. What he means by saying that is you would attach the stipend to all the scholarships, not just the 63. So if you spread them out to 85, there would be 85 stipends, as well. If you were FBS, you would have 85 FULL scholarships and 85 stipends, so obviously that would be more costly.



Of course, with FBS double the scholarships or name a men's program with 22 scholarships to drop to comply with Title IX.

Didn't think I needed the PPL

[td577]

Didn't think I needed the PPL

You won't after today. It is my last day of being a Percocet junkie. I'm not tracking anything very well lately. Plus I'm tired of drooling everywhere.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[Hammersmith]

FBS wouldn't be cheaper. What he means by saying that is you would attach the stipend to all the scholarships, not just the 63. So if you spread them out to 85, there would be 85 stipends, as well. If you were FBS, you would have 85 FULL scholarships and 85 stipends, so obviously that would be more costly.

One problem that no one knows the answer to yet is how equivalency sports(like FCS football) will be handled. You can give out those 63 scholarships to 85 players. So, are you limited to 63 FCOA stipends, or can you give a full stipend to every player you give a scholarship to? If you give a stipend to a partial scholarship player, how do you handle the math? Is the amount of the stipend linked to the amount of the scholarship? (get a 50% scholarship, get a 50% stipend) Or how do you say this money over here is scholarship money that counts towards the 63 limit, but this other money over there is stipend money that doesn't.

Lots of headaches with no answers yet(at least I haven't heard any).

[HerdBot]

Great article by Kolpack. My thoughts. Since football is a business and the league is getting pretty damn competitive with big name coaching names like Pelini, increased coaching salaries, shiny new stadiums and indoor practice facilities. .. I'm 100% for paying the cost of attendance. You know it will make schools like UNI have to cut somewhere or divert resources and we could have a huge advantage in the short term if others don't do it. I know we can raise the money. The margin for victory is so close in the conference. This gives us an edge.


http://www.inforum.com/sports/bison/3662124-decision-division-i-athletic-powers-forces-lower-level-schools-ndsu-consider

[56BISON73]

One problem that no one knows the answer to yet is how equivalency sports(like FCS football) will be handled. You can give out those 63 scholarships to 85 players. So, are you limited to 63 FCOA stipends, or can you give a full stipend to every player you give a scholarship to? If you give a stipend to a partial scholarship player, how do you handle the math? Is the amount of the stipend linked to the amount of the scholarship? (get a 50% scholarship, get a 50% stipend) Or how do you say this money over here is scholarship money that counts towards the 63 limit, but this other money over there is stipend money that doesn't.

Lots of headaches with no answers yet(at least I haven't heard any).


As usual you have some very interesting points. As far as myself I would like to see everyone get a full stipend.

[HerdBot]

As usual you have some very interesting points. As far as myself I would like to see everyone get a full stipend.

I agree or at least work towards it. If a kid is on the team and is paying his way through college out of pocket and contributing to the football team with no scholly it's pretty darn tough to earn money between what amounts to 2 full time jobs. Just seems like the right thing to do

[56BISON73]

I agree or at least work towards it. If a kid is on the team and is paying his way through college out of pocket and contributing to the football team with no scholly it's pretty darn tough to earn money between what amounts to 2 full time jobs. Just seems like the right thing to do


I think the rule is---no scholly no stipend. The way our schollies are structured with so many partials this would really take the pressure off of kids who are working out year round. Not to mention the fact that some of the parents dont have any disposable income so the kids are basically on there own.

[Bison03]

If the top teams with big budget teams in the FCS and high mid majors do this, it will put a lot of pressure on other schools with smaller budgets. You think schools like USD, Western Illinois, IUPUI, and IPWF can afford this? They will be at an even bigger recruiting advantage if schools like NDSU can pay them. Even UNI has had to play 2 FBS games a year recently to keep the money coming in. I think this is overall a good thing. It will be interresting to see how it all plays out and which Valley and Summit teams participate in it.

[Honeybooboo]

If the top teams with big budget teams in the FCS and high mid majors do this, it will put a lot of pressure on other schools with smaller budgets. You think schools like USD, Western Illinois, IUPUI, and IPWF can afford this? They will be at an even bigger recruiting advantage if schools like NDSU can pay them. Even UNI has had to play 2 FBS games a year recently to keep the money coming in. I think this is overall a good thing. It will be interresting to see how it all plays out and which Valley and Summit teams participate in it.

This will separate the low, from the mid, and mid from the High

NDSU will fall in the upper half of the mid group, which is absolutely fine by me. If NDSU goes forward with this it will show other conferences our overall commitment to athletics and increase our stock a bit IMO, which in turn after the G5 and P5 thing shakes out will leave us in a good position

now schools like you mentioned, it will hurt them USD cannot afford it, WIU and many of the BSC cant either. I believe this will really shake out the men from the boys

Is USD on the path to NOn scholorship or dropping the program?? Indiana St?

I can see Portland St, Northern CO dropping the programs, but i think Portland st is a dead man walking anyways

[StL Bison Fan]

After reading that article by Kolpack (http://www.inforum.com/sports/bison/3662124-decision-division-i-athletic-powers-forces-lower-level-schools-ndsu-consider) it sounds like everyone is holding their breath to see if someone will do this. Contrary to what was said on AGS, it appears uni is nervous about football because they need to do this for basketball.
I'm willing to up my game if NDSU decides to do this. It will make us the bad kid on the block but ill chance it.

[BisonNation11]

Pull the trigger and do it. People already "hate" NDSU so might as well give them more bulletin board material. Up my ticket prices, up my Team Makers dues, whatever it takes. Keep NDSU the top brand and a place kids want to come to by the droves. Set the example.

[Honeybooboo]

I suggest all TM members that support Matt and this new allowance to Email, call and show your support. It will greatly help them in the confidence to pull the trigger if they can crunch numbers and show the bean counters we have the funds.

[imabison]

I suggest all TM members that support Matt and this new allowance to Email, call and show your support. It will greatly help them in the confidence to pull the trigger if they can crunch numbers and show the bean counters we have the funds.

Not that I am against this, but I take exception to because you have funds they need to be spent. Are you a state legislature member or what???

[Bison03]

Pull the trigger and do it. People already "hate" NDSU so might as well give them more bulletin board material. Up my ticket prices, up my Team Makers dues, whatever it takes. Keep NDSU the top brand and a place kids want to come to by the droves. Set the example.

We've upped our standards....so UP YOURS!! :)

[MAKBison]

After reading that article by Kolpack (http://www.inforum.com/sports/bison/3662124-decision-division-i-athletic-powers-forces-lower-level-schools-ndsu-consider) it sounds like everyone is holding their breath to see if someone will do this. Contrary to what was said on AGS, it appears uni is nervous about football because they need to do this for basketball.
I'm willing to up my game if NDSU decides to do this. It will make us the bad kid on the block but ill chance it.

Could this Kill UNI football?


IMHO---I think NDSU should pay this. As PL noted $5 added on top of the FB tickets pays for all the stipends for every sport.

[MAKBison]

You won't after today. It is my last day of being a Percocet junkie. I'm not tracking anything very well lately. Plus I'm tired of drooling everywhere.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

there is your issue, you are using too big of words....gotta bring it down to a High school level. Do that you will be OK.

[MAKBison]

One problem that no one knows the answer to yet is how equivalency sports(like FCS football) will be handled. You can give out those 63 scholarships to 85 players. So, are you limited to 63 FCOA stipends, or can you give a full stipend to every player you give a scholarship to? If you give a stipend to a partial scholarship player, how do you handle the math? Is the amount of the stipend linked to the amount of the scholarship? (get a 50% scholarship, get a 50% stipend) Or how do you say this money over here is scholarship money that counts towards the 63 limit, but this other money over there is stipend money that doesn't.

Lots of headaches with no answers yet(at least I haven't heard any).

Your correct! I would assume it will be based on percent. Thus, a full scholly 100%. half 50%, etc etc.

[mango]

football plus men's and women's basketball @ $3,000 per scholarship = (85 + 13 + 15) * 3400 = 113 * 3400 = $384,200.

Team Makers gave $3,181,000 to the athletic department in 2013 (last year publicly available), raised $3,746,000 and after expenses added $310,000 to their fund balances.

So depending on what you want to compare to, just doing football, mbb and wbb cost of attendance is an extra 10 to 12% ask.

Which you may be able to raise from, just for example, 1) ~$50 per seat for the ~7,500 sideline and endzone seats that currently don't have team maker contribution requirements or 2) ~$200 per seat for the ~1,900 scholarship level seats that aren't contributing the full advertised cost of those seats.

I'm just presuming this would be a team maker thing because it seems like it's related to their mission but obviously there are any number of other options for raising the funds in the event it's decided to fund full cost of attendance.

Another question is how does Title IX play into this or has that been answered? Would you have to offer the same stipends to both men's and women's programs? The men's and women's basketball cancel each other out but where do you get the other 63 scholarship stipends for women's sports that football takes up? Volleyball and soccer will probably be some of it. But if you do women's golf, how does that affect the men's golf team? Same thing with men's and women's track and softball/baseball.

[MAKBison]

Another question is how does Title IX play into this or has that been answered? Would you have to offer the same stipends to both men's and women's programs? The men's and women's basketball cancel each other out but where do you get the other 63 scholarships for women's sports that football takes up? Volleyball and soccer will probably be some of it. But if you do women's golf, how does that affect the men's golf team? Same thing with men's and women's track and softball/baseball.

SU could afford to pay 100% for all sport's schollys. But, yes I get what your saying.

[BisonNation11]

We've upped our standards....so UP YOURS!! :)

It's easier if they force me to do it as convincing the wife it's worth it is harder to do. :) Although due to a stroke of luck and by God's grace, I will be making a significant (to me) one time donation this spring. Won't be able to do it again until I'm much older, but I figure it will help boost me up in points for the meantime. Again, the wife will not like it, but to me it's worth it. Hope they appreciate it as much as I appreciate the entire program's effort. Can't wait for signing day, spring game and kickoff to next season!

[td577]

there is your issue, you are using too big of words....gotta bring it down to a High school level. Do that you will be OK.

You needed purple. I didn't know you actually knew what you were talking about. First for everything, I suppose.

[bisonaudit]

Another question is how does Title IX play into this or has that been answered? Would you have to offer the same stipends to both men's and women's programs? The men's and women's basketball cancel each other out but where do you get the other 63 scholarship stipends for women's sports that football takes up? Volleyball and soccer will probably be some of it. But if you do women's golf, how does that affect the men's golf team? Same thing with men's and women's track and softball/baseball.

I don't know I just went with the 3 that the AD mentioned specifically in the interview.

[56BISON73]

Your correct! I would assume it will be based on percent. Thus, a full scholly 100%. half 50%, etc etc.

I understand that thinking. But that goes against the spirit of the FCOA doesnt it? I think they should all get the same amount.

[BisonNation11]

I understand that thinking. But that goes against the spirit of the FCOA doesnt it? I think they should all get the same amount.

This is what I think as well. If you're on the roster, you get just as much as anyone else.

[td577]

I understand that thinking. But that goes against the spirit of the FCOA doesnt it? I think they should all get the same amount.

I think if they go this route, whoever is on scholarship will get 100% covered on the stipend. It will become part of the entire package to get student/athletes to come here or anywhere for that matter. We can only give you a half scholarship but you get the whole stipend which will offset the difference.

[bisonaudit]

I don't know which way it works but I read somewhere a story that described what we referring to as a full cost of attendance stipend or words to that effect as instead in increase in the scholarship amount which makes me think that the granting of a partial scholarship would then include as we've been describing them here, a partial stipend.

That could just be the authors interpretation. I've seen it described different ways in different places.

More questions than answers at this point.

[IndyBison]

One thing to keep in mind is a scholarship can possibly not be an expense, but instead of loss of revenue for a school. I've found private schools play this sticker price game. They may say their tuition, room and board is $45k, every student gets a $15k "scholarship". I don't believe they necessarily have to pull that money from somewhere. They could just figure the actual cost per student is $30k, but use the $45k sticker price since this number is somewhat of a score keeper for private schools. Based on ability to pay, it's possible they get someone to pay the full $45k which helps offset the students who receive the scholarship.

The FCOA would definitely be an expense with funds that have to be raised.

[MAKBison]

you needed purple. I didn't know you actually knew what you were talking about. First for everything, i suppose.

wtf>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was a jab at the FBS cost more than the FCS argument that is it was a troll, bait, jab, a bit of smack etc. You know the argument that consumes about 95% of the treads on here. BTW I was giving you a complement but whatever. Point taken!!!

[56BISON73]

I think if they go this route, whoever is on scholarship will get 100% covered on the stipend. It will become part of the entire package to get student/athletes to come here or anywhere for that matter. We can only give you a half scholarship but you get the whole stipend which will offset the difference.

Exactly. ....

[MAKBison]

I understand that thinking. But that goes against the spirit of the FCOA doesnt it? I think they should all get the same amount.

Maybe, But you could shave a bit of cost off of the process if you go the other route. Maybe the savings/cost is not enough to notice, but it might make it a bit more doable for some Schools.

I wonder if we should not be looking at this from a conference standpoint? Can the MVFC force a vote on this?

[56BISON73]

Maybe, But you could shave a bit of cost off of the process if you go the other route. Maybe the savings/cost is not enough to notice, but it might make it a bit more doable for some Schools.

I wonder if we should not be looking at this from a conference standpoint? Can the MVFC come on say lets vote on this?

You might be able to save some money but its still about giving the kids what this rule is designed for. This is supposed to be on top of what their schollie covers. Give everyone the same thing. It sure will help the kids out. Not to mention the parents. And it certainly wont hurt recruiting. It will only hurt recruiting if you try and nickle and dime this ruling.

[MAKBison]

You might be able to save some money but its still about giving the kids what this rule is designed for. This is supposed to be on top of what their schollie covers. Give everyone the same thing. It sure will help the kids out. Not to mention the parents. And it certainly wont hurt recruiting. It will only hurt recruiting if you try and nickle and dime this ruling.

No disagreement there and if your looking at this from a ethical standpoint I am right there with you. Been an advocate for this for a long time. As a grad student, I was given a scholly and I was also paid a stipend. There is no reason why it should be different for athletic schollys. WTBS---- cost seems to be the big challenge and going the % route would cut that for FCS football. it may not be a significant savings so the tactic might be moot. Again, I see the larger issue being with the conference, but I probable dont know what I am talking about.

[Hammersmith]

You might be able to save some money but its still about giving the kids what this rule is designed for. This is supposed to be on top of what their schollie covers. Give everyone the same thing. It sure will help the kids out. Not to mention the parents. And it certainly wont hurt recruiting. It will only hurt recruiting if you try and nickle and dime this ruling.

I don't think it's going to be up to the schools. The NCAA has to lay out exactly what this rule means in regards to partials. Think of the havoc it could play with the other equivalency sports like T&F. As far as I know, there are no limits on how many players you can split your T&F scholarships across. So imagine if a school with funds gave out 1% scholarships to 50 athletes and used that to then give all of them full stipends. For the "limit cost" of a half scholarship, you effectively get another dozen scholarships or so to distribute. The same scenario could occur in wrestling, S&D, soccer, softball, and a bunch of other sports.

[56BISON73]

No disagreement there and if your looking at this from a ethical standpoint I am right there with you. Been an advocate for this for a long time. As a grad student, I was given a scholly and I was also paid a stipend. There is no reason why it should be different for athletic schollys. WTBS---- cost seems to be the big challenge and going the % route would cut that for FCS football. it may not be a significant savings so the tactic might be moot. Again, I see the larger issue being with the conference, but I probable dont know what I am talking about.

Will the conferences have final say? If that happens the have nots would rule the day. The NCAA said the other schools can do what they want. They didnt say anything about conferences. So there is more that needs to play out.

[MAKBison]

Will the conferences have final say? If that happens the have nots would rule the day. The NCAA said the other schools can do what they want. They didnt say anything about conferences. So there is more that needs to play out.

They were just debating the conference POV on TV. Is this the tip of the domino?

[Hammersmith]

Will the conferences have final say? If that happens the have nots would rule the day. The NCAA said the other schools can do what they want. They didnt say anything about conferences. So there is more that needs to play out.

Conferences always have the choice of creating more restrictive rules than the NCAA. Just look at the Pioneer and NEC conferences. Those conferences have agreed to limit football scholarships even though the NCAA allows 63. The same principle would apply to these new rules.

[56BISON73]

They were just debating the conference POV on TV. Is this the tip of the domino?

This could also be the tipping point on team realignment.

[Honeybooboo]

Not that I am against this, but I take exception to because you have funds they need to be spent. Are you a state legislature member or what???

What? I'm only saying if you support and are willing to donate more to help this issue do it.

Wtf are you reading into?

[NDSU1980]

Will the conferences have final say? If that happens the have nots would rule the day. The NCAA said the other schools can do what they want. They didnt say anything about conferences. So there is more that needs to play out.

I really think there are enough big time teams in the MVFC that would vote to go along with this. Otherwise, we are really going to lose athletes to the FBS conferences.

[DIBISON]

Conferences always have the choice of creating more restrictive rules than the NCAA. Just look at the Pioneer and NEC conferences. Those conferences have agreed to limit football scholarships even though the NCAA allows 63. The same principle would apply to these new rules.
I'm just thinking out loud here. Those are program or individual sport restrictions. The stipend goes to individual athletes. The NCAA said the stipend is an institutional decision. Does a conference have the right to restrict or not allow? I don't know.

[MAKBison]

I'm just thinking out loud here. Those are program or individual sport restrictions. The stipend goes to individual athletes. The NCAA said the stipend is an institutional decision. Does a conference have the right to restrict or not allow? I don't know.

In my mind that is the $$$$$ question. UNI is already playing 2 FBS games to make ends meet. Can they afford to do this? I wold think the MVC will embrace this. But I am not so sure about the MVFC.

[Honeybooboo]

I'm just thinking out loud here. Those are program or individual sport restrictions. The stipend goes to individual athletes. The NCAA said the stipend is an institutional decision. Does a conference have the right to restrict or not allow? I don't know.

Maybe, isn't it a conference wide choice to have replay? Ncaa allows it for all DI but the conferences decide

[MAKBison]

I really think there are enough big time teams in the MVFC that would vote to go along with this. Otherwise, we are really going to lose athletes to the FBS conferences.

I agree about losing Athletes but I am so sure about enough teams to support it.

[StL Bison Fan]

I thought Larson said the MVFC is leaving it up to the schools. Too lazy to listen again but as I listened live the only thing I was thinking was NDSU is going to do this. No fact. Just a feeling based on how he sounded.

[56BISON73]

I thought Larson said the MVFC is leaving it up to the schools. Too lazy to listen again but as I listened live the only thing I was thinking was NDSU is going to do this. No fact. Just a feeling based on how he sounded.

Didnt he say it was the right thing to do?

[56BISON73]

I'm just thinking out loud here. Those are program or individual sport restrictions. The stipend goes to individual athletes. The NCAA said the stipend is an institutional decision. Does a conference have the right to restrict or not allow? I don't know.

http://kfgo.com/podcasts/mike-mcfeely-show/983/matt-larsen-01-21-2015/

[THEsocalledfan]

I see little choice for NDSU on this...they have to do it. Easy to get the dough through football as already pointed out. I do think basically every woman athlete will need to get this for title IX.

I love the idea of the bricks UNI and the rest of FCS is shitting. Get serious or leave.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[StL Bison Fan]

Didnt he say it was the right thing to do?

Listened again. Yes. We will be doing this.
And he's right, some sports at other schools will go away. Shame

[Tatanka]

The more I think about this the more I become convinced that this will not only hasten the shifting of the sands at the fbs school level, it will ultimately lead to the end of fcs as we know it. There are schools in the mvfc that won't want anything to do with this... I think most of the FCS won't even try to keep up. There's maybe 20 schools that can generate the revenue to make it work.
Sent from somewhere on teh intarwebs

[No_Skill]

It will be interesting to see if any conferences disallow these stipends. If the vote is not unanimous, you could really piss off some of the schools and run the risk of destabilizing the conference.

Are there any FBS schools that are leaning toward not offering these or is it just assumed that they will all offer them?

[No_Skill]

The more I think about this the more I become convinced that this will not only hasten the shifting of the sands at the fbs school level, it will ultimately lead to the end of fcs as we know it. There are schools in the mvfc that won't want anything to do with this... I think most of the FCS won't even try to keep up. There's maybe 20 schools that can generate the revenue to make it work.
Sent from somewhere on teh intarwebs

This is my thought as well. I think this will have a greater immediate impact on the fcs than the fbs.

[BisonNation11]

It will be interesting to see if any conferences disallow these stipends. If the vote is not unanimous, you could really piss off some of the schools and run the risk of destabilizing the conference.

Are there any FBS schools that are leaning toward not offering these or is it just assumed that they will all offer them?

How many of the MAC schools or SunBelt schools do you think could do this or would want to? And like some have stated before, where do you stop? Does every athlete get this, does it stop at the footballs and basketballs, is everyone paid the same amount or is it based off amount of scholarship a player has received? I think NDSU goes forward with this no matter what and I fully support them. Stay ahead of the curve and set themselves apart.

[Gully]

Can't the conference vote to not let people do it, just like some conferences agree to have fewer scholarships than allowed by the NCAA.

[BisonNation11]

Can't the conference vote to not let people do it, just like some conferences agree to have fewer scholarships than allowed by the NCAA.

My question to that would be what would the possible repercussions be if a member did it anyway, despite the conference not allowing it? Would they really kick someone out of the conference? If so, I guess NDSU might be looking for a new conference as I don't see NDSU turning down the opportunity to pay the players. Listening to Mooney on Dom and Izzo's show this morning, Wyoming was already offering it.

[THEsocalledfan]

My question to that would be what would the possible repercussions be if a member did it anyway, despite the conference not allowing it? Would they really kick someone out of the conference? If so, I guess NDSU might be looking for a new conference as I don't see NDSU turning down the opportunity to pay the players. Listening to Mooney on Dom and Izzo's show this morning, Wyoming was already offering it.

Agreed. MVFC is in a tricky place. The reality is they become completely irrelevant in the national picture without NDSU. So, if they vote to note allow it, they have to know NDSU is basically a free agent at that point as they will be furious. My chips are that, in the short term, MVFC gives the schools the discretion to choose.

[Tatanka]

Interesting...

On Hallstrom's radio show this morning, NDSU AD just said that conferences cannot get together as a conference and disallow its schools from giving cost of attendance money to student athletes.

From what I just heard... Excellent interview by Hallstrom as usual BTW... NDSU is definitely doing this, just going to have to figure out how.

SamsRams is on at 1030 to talk recruiting.

[StL Bison Fan]

My question to that would be what would the possible repercussions be if a member did it anyway, despite the conference not allowing it? Would they really kick someone out of the conference? If so, I guess NDSU might be looking for a new conference as I don't see NDSU turning down the opportunity to pay the players. Listening to Mooney on Dom and Izzo's show this morning, Wyoming was already offering it.

What conference is going to hinder recruitment? Here is the tweet:

@FGOSPORTSWRITER: Bison verbal Trenton Mooney tells Kolpack&Izzo Wyoming offered him cost of attendance of $3,500, further proof NDSU will look at it hard.

So our conference is going to vote to tie our hands going head to head on recruits? I guess we will see which schools are serious about which sports. We could start a pool to see which schools abandon football money wise.

[No_Skill]

What conference is going to hinder recruitment? Here is the tweet:

@FGOSPORTSWRITER: Bison verbal Trenton Mooney tells Kolpack&Izzo Wyoming offered him cost of attendance of $3,500, further proof NDSU will look at it hard.

So our conference is going to vote to tie our hands going head to head on recruits? I guess we will see which schools are serious about which sports. We could start a pool to see which schools abandon football money wise.

This is happening faster than I expected. We not only have to offer this to recruits, but we have to implement this with current student athletes.

Is the $3400 figure for the year or for the semester?

[bisonaudit]

Agreed. MVFC is in a tricky place. The reality is they become completely irrelevant in the national picture without NDSU. So, if they vote to note allow it, they have to know NDSU is basically a free agent at that point as they will be furious. My chips are that, in the short term, MVFC gives the schools the discretion to choose.

Even without NDSU the MVFC was the best FCS conference. To say they'd be irrelevant is silly.

[MAKBison]

I see little choice for NDSU on this...they have to do it. Easy to get the dough through football as already pointed out. I do think basically every woman athlete will need to get this for title IX.

I love the idea of the bricks UNI and the rest of FCS is shitting. Get serious or leave.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

I was being serious....does this kill UNI FB?

[StL Bison Fan]

I was being serious....does this kill UNI FB?

They will say no. But in the past haven't they struggled a bit? And they do love their basketball.

[Hammersmith]

Interesting...

On Hallstrom's radio show this morning, NDSU AD just said that conferences cannot get together as a conference and disallow its schools from giving cost of attendance money to student athletes.

From what I just heard... Excellent interview by Hallstrom as usual BTW... NDSU is definitely doing this, just going to have to figure out how.

SamsRams is on at 1030 to talk recruiting.

I would really love to see the bylaw(or whatever) behind that.


It's not a great source since it comes from the proposed autonomy plan rather than the finished legislation(I don't know where to find that), but here's a quote from the document:


A set of bylaws will be available for the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC to amend through a five-conference voting process. Such legislation would also be available to all members in Division I to apply at each conference’s respective discretion, which may include delegation of such discretion to its member institutions.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/DI%20Steering%20Commitee%20on%20Gov%20Proposed%20M odel%2007%2018%2014%204.pdf
page 39

Maybe I'm reading from the wrong part of the document or something(it's a mess).




edit: Nope, I think I found the actual legislation that will be added to the 2015-16 DI manual. It seems to clearly state that conferences have the option to choose which of the autonomy rules they wish to follow or leave the decision up to the individual schools.


5.3.2.1.2.2 Application to Other Conferences/Institutions. Legislation set forth as an area of autonomy may be applied by other member institutions at each conference's respective discretion, which may include delegation of such discretion to its member institutions.
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Division%20I%20Governance%20Structure%20Proposal%2 0%282014-2%29.pdf?division=d1
pg 26

[Tatanka]

I was being serious....does this kill UNI FB?


Perhaps not but butts at SIU, WIU, and ISU-b just puckered big time.

[Bisonwinagn]

I think this would be a significant advantage to FCS schools if this can be offered to partials. I don't think its a big deal for athletes already on full rides which means offering this extra money to partials closes the gap between MTW and MAC schools we compete against for recruits.

[td577]

Looking at the list of FCS programs out there, I have to think there are only 20-24 programs out there who would even think about adding the stipend. Then you have the bottom feeder G5 programs who may or may not want to be involved in all of this, as well. I say this might push college football into realignment sooner rather than later. The P5 will figure out a way to balance their conferences with a minimum of 14 each. That would be one school from the ACC moving over to the Big 12 and the addition of 4 more schools to get them all even. This is important for P5 legislation because then each conference will have the same number of votes. Notre Dame and BYU would be added to a P5 conference and then you would think there would be three current G5 schools that would move up. Then what is left is the G5 and FCS schools who want to pay the stipend (which becomes the new second tier) and those that don't (which becomes the new third tier). There has to be realignment to maintain competitive parity to some degree. Even if all the G5 schools want to pay the stipend, they have room for the 20 FCS programs that do. You would be right around that 80 number for five 16 team conferences. It would make for a very fun 8 team playoff in December capping off with championship weekend for the top three tiers. The basketball only schools left is right around 80. That becomes a little tricky as they could make up another five 16 team conferences on their own that mixes into the 2nd tier after the football season is over. Or the five football conferences split into ten each adding 8 more schools for basketball insuring at least half the football schools always play each other in all sports.

The bottom line is the faster that NDSU and other FCS programs that want to get in on the stipend business get in on it, the faster it forces everyone else to get the ball rolling on resetting college football to its true equilibrium. Football schools can be with football schools or at least with schools wanting to make a similar commitment. Right now there is so much disparity among FCS, for example, because you have four different levels of commitment within this one subdivision. It has to go further than realignment among just FCS. You will end up with two superconferences and everyone else. Sure it is kind of what it is like right now, but even more pronounced.

[Tatanka]

here's the podcast of today's interview with Hallstrom and Matt Larsen... give it a listen. well worth your time. http://podcast.flagfamily.com/?name=2015-01-24_1-24-15_hour_2.mp3

[unbison]

I think the one thing people are overlooking is that we have no choice but to offer COA SCHOLARSHIPS in men's and women's basketball....as well as women's volleyball

[MAKBison]

I think the one thing people are overlooking is that we have no choice but to offer COA SCHOLARSHIPS in men's and women's basketball....as well as women's volleyball

I would think softball, wrestling, track and baseball as well. not so sure about golf.

[56BISON73]

I think the one thing people are overlooking is that we have no choice but to offer COA SCHOLARSHIPS in men's and women's basketball....as well as women's volleyball

Fine with me.

[MAKBison]

Fine with me.

I am with you PL you gotta do it for all and just consider it cost of doing business.

[unbison]

I am with you PL you gotta do it for all and just consider it cost of doing business.

I'm simply saying those sports you have no option.... If we don't might as well go d3

[56BISON73]

I'm simply saying those sports you have no option.... If we don't might as well go d3

I agree. I would like to see us do it for all sports.

[MAKBison]

I'm simply saying those sports you have no option.... If we don't might as well go d3


I agree, but would add TF, wrestling, softball and Baseball. Golf is the only thing I think would not change who we recruit. Perhaps baseball is another one were we would not see too much drop off, just not sure as I dont follow it as much as I should hence the wavering.

[bisonaudit]

If NDSU wants to go the whole way (all 221 scholarships) @ $3,400 that's a smidge over $750,000.

That would represent a 20% increase over what team makers raised in 2013 and nearly a 24% increase over what they donated to the athletic department (last publicly available numbers).

Team makers plus tickets and student fee money it looks like NDSU football pulled in something like $7 million last year. So if you wanted raise this money from football attendance one way to go could be to increasing the total ask per ticket by something like 11% for every seat in the house.

[THEsocalledfan]

here's the podcast of today's interview with Hallstrom and Matt Larsen... give it a listen. well worth your time. http://podcast.flagfamily.com/?name=2015-01-24_1-24-15_hour_2.mp3

Required listening for any serious Bisonviller......

Highlights (much has already been mentioned, but wanted to summarize):

1. While Matt L. was not 100% clear, it sure sounded like NDSU plans on moving to full cost scholarships. I'd put the odds at 99%; he did everything but officially confirm it. (Caution, speculation, but I'd be shocked if that decision has not already been made with NLI day coming.)
2. Conferences CANNOT keep member schools from offering this. Sounded like this is because of worries on collusion.
3. John N. did a great job reviewing NDSU recruiting. He thinks NDSU is likely out of money at this point, and the things to watch are for PWO's and a couple of the NDSU top verbals with other folks coming after them. (Can't remember the name, but he seemed most concerned about a kid from Iowa.)

Really, really stellar reporting by Hallstrom. He asked all the right questions of the AD and John.

I am really, really pumped after listening. I think we are again entering a new era for football. Until this is a full scale "rip" of the current structure, NDSU will likely dominate FCS football, along with the few other schools that will offer this. Justin Sell must have soiled his bed if he listened to this.....

[Tatanka]

Required listening for any serious Bisonviller......

Highlights (much has already been mentioned, but wanted to summarize):

1. While Matt L. was not 100% clear, it sure sounded like NDSU plans on moving to full cost scholarships. I'd put the odds at 99%; he did everything but officially confirm it. (Caution, speculation, but I'd be shocked if that decision has not already been made with NLI day coming.)
2. Conferences CANNOT keep member schools from offering this. Sounded like this is because of worries on collusion.
3. John N. did a great job reviewing NDSU recruiting. He thinks NDSU is likely out of money at this point, and the things to watch are for PWO's and a couple of the NDSU top verbals with other folks coming after them. (Can't remember the name, but he seemed most concerned about a kid from Iowa.)

Really, really stellar reporting by Hallstrom. He asked all the right questions of the AD and John.

I am really, really pumped after listening. I think we are again entering a new era for football. Until this is a full scale "rip" of the current structure, NDSU will likely dominate FCS football, along with the few other schools that will offer this. Justin Sell must have soiled his bed if he listened to this.....

Sell? No, he was uncomfortable but hardly shit the bed. He has a huge (potential) cash generation machine being built.

The ones shitting the bed would be UN(I|D), USD, ISUb, SIU, WIU. MoSt and YSU, and to some degree ISUr are already gearing up for the next level. SDSU will be there as well... if they hadn't moved on their facility upgrades, I'd be in 100% agreement with you.

[THEsocalledfan]

The ones shitting the bed would be UN(I|D), USD, ISUb, SIU, WIU. MoSt and YSU, and to some degree ISUr are already gearing up for the next level. SDSU will be there as well... if they hadn't moved on their facility upgrades, I'd be in 100% agreement with you.

This brings up the obvious question, who else can afford this is MVFC?

My bet is that UNI will cannibalize other sports if that is what is takes; they are too proud of football.

Agree SDSU will find a way and they have a new stadium coming and are now planning on renovating Frost. (My goodness, has Choiceone been good for them.)

Youngstown will find a way; they are a storied program.

I am skeptical of Mo St. as they did not fill their stadium, well.

The Illinois schools are the big wildcards, in my book. Do any of them have the resources? Will ISU-r get more fans?

[Tatanka]

The Illinois schools are the big wildcards, in my book. Do any of them have the resources?
ISU-red is the only one with a prayer.

[MAKBison]

This brings up the obvious question, who else can afford this is MVFC?

My bet is that UNI will cannibalize other sports if that is what is takes; they are too proud of football.

Agree SDSU will find a way and they have a new stadium coming and are now planning on renovating Frost. (My goodness, has Choiceone been good for them.)

Youngstown will find a way; they are a storied program.

I am skeptical of Mo St. as they did not fill their stadium, well.

The Illinois schools are the big wildcards, in my book. Do any of them have the resources? Will ISU-r get more fans?

I am not sure so UNI will make it. Just a PO, but if you have to play 2 FBS games each year just to pay the bills that says something.

Whats is just as interesting is that we seem to be the only FCS fan base discussing this.

[THEsocalledfan]

I am not sure so UNI will make it. Just a PO, but if you have to play 2 FBS games each year just to pay the bills that says something.

Isn't that akin to waving a white flag, and bowing down to kiss the feet of NDSU? That is kind of why I'd bet they would go after non-rev sports if they had to.

[MAKBison]

Isn't that akin to waving a white flag, and bowing down to kiss the feet of NDSU? That is kind of why I'd bet they would go after non-rev sports if they had to.

True. IDK, it just seems having to play those two FBS teams always puts them in such a hole. Add this on top of that and it might be the death blow. Besides I htought they were a BB school?

[THEsocalledfan]

True. IDK, it just seems having to play those two FBS teams always puts them in such a whole. Add this on top of that and it might be the death blow. Besides I htought they were a BB school?

Sure are this year; can't help but admit I am a bit jealous of them playing in the Valley.

And how the heck are they even going to find FBS games unless they go to SEC and PAC 12, and even then, I bet those days are also numbered.....

[MAKBison]

Yeah, I wish we were in the Valley for BB. How are the rest of their programs..... do they have wrestling?

[Bisonator98]

I am not sure so UNI will make it. Just a PO, but if you have to play 2 FBS games each year just to pay the bills that says something.

Whats is just as interesting is that we seem to be the only FCS fan base discussing this.

Not sure why this keeps being brought up like it's a fact. They have only scheduled 2 FBS games twice, once when Wisky was desperate for a game and paid their buyout and this past year when Hawaii paid all of their travel expenses for a glorified vacation. Sure their financial state was not great a few years ago but that had a lot to do with their former AD's ticket fiasco and shuttering of their baseball program. I'm not so sure they are in as desperate a situation as many make it out to be now.

[Bison03]

Not sure why this keeps being brought up like it's a fact. They have only scheduled 2 FBS games twice, once when Wisky was desperate for a game and paid their buyout and this past year when Hawaii paid all of their travel expenses for a glorified vacation. Sure their financial state was not great a few years ago but that had a lot to do with their former AD's ticket fiasco and shuttering of their baseball program. I'm not so sure they are in as desperate a situation as many make it out to be now.

I wouldn't bet on it. Obviously nobody on the outside knows the numbers. But if NDSU scheduled 2 FBS games in 1 season, let alone 2; people would be wondering. The fact that we pay teams more then other schools do shows me that the financial state of the athletica department at NDSU is pretty good.

[Hammersmith]

I wouldn't bet on it. Obviously nobody on the outside knows the numbers. But if NDSU scheduled 2 FBS games in 1 season, let alone 2; people would be wondering. The fact that we pay teams more then other schools do shows me that the financial state of the athletica department at NDSU is pretty good.

So we were in dire financial straights back when we scheduled two FBS teams in two straight years?

The smack talking is fun and all, but be careful over-believing our own hype.

[MAKBison]

So we were in dire financial straights back when we scheduled two FBS teams in two straight years?

The smack talking is fun and all, but be careful over-believing our own hype.

Well, since we or at least I have no Idea, you kinda got to go with what they were saying about it over on panther nation..needed the cash. We will find out soon enough. BTw whats Farley and more importantly his assistance getting paid....that might give a better indication

BTW lets not pretend the HI game was for a vacation as was mentioned. You dont do that to a team that is sniffing the PO unless you have to

[Hammersmith]

Okay, I found the text of the FCOA legislation and it clears up a whole lot. Basically everything. Equivalencies, Matt Larson's mistake on Hallstrom's show, bunch of other stuff. A link to the legislation and a link to a Q&A made up for the P5 representatives is at the bottom.

Terms & acronyms: I'm going to use the terms from the legislation. According to the text, a full grant-in-aid(FGIA) is now the old full scholarship plus what we've been calling the COA stipend. The old idea of a full scholarship is now specifically listed as: "tuition and fees, room and board, and required course-related books". For the sake of brevity, I'm going to use the acronyms FGIA and GIA to refer to the two types.



How do FGIAs work?

First you need to understand how they've always worked in the past. Each student's aid is computed separately from everyone else's. That's how you deal with resident/non-resident/reciprocity students. You figure out the maximum dollar amount that that student can receive and you stick that number in the denominator of a fraction. Then you put the amount of money you're actually giving that student into the numerator. You divide the two, and the result is subtracted from your scholarship limit for that sport.

When dealing with FGIA, all you are doing is changing the number that goes into the denominator. Instead of the GIA, it's now the FGIA. The "stipend" is not considered a separate thing at all; it's included at the fundamental level for the calculation. You're not calculating a scholarship and then calculating a stipend. What you're doing is just increasing the value of what a full scholarship is for that student-athlete.

How do equivalency sports work?

Basically, no change. The first thing you decide is whether the student-athlete is a GIA or FGIA student. That determines what denominator you are going to use in the calculation. After that, everything stays the same.

Say a GIA is worth $5,000 and an FGIA is worth $10,000. If you declare a student a GIA and give him $5,000, you have used up 1 scholarship against your limit(5000/5000). If you declare him an FGIA and give him the same $5,000, he now only counts as a 0.5 scholarship against your limit(5000/10000).

Can you treat sports differently within the same athletic department?

You betcha. Not only that, but you can treat individual players differently on the same team. You can calculate some members on the team as GIA and others as FGIA. But the previous example should have shown you that there is no advantage to using the old GIA number. Whether you plan to use stipends or not, it's in the school's best interest to use the new FGIA number.

That said, Title IX applies to everything. It's federal law and no NCAA legislation can supersede it. You don't necessarily have to do it at exactly 1:1, but you better stay within the spirit of the law or else you will be in trouble.

Can conferences forbid schools from using FGIA?

I don't care what Matt Larson said on Hallstrom's radio show, conferences most certainly CAN forbid members from using FGIA. It's written right into the legislation. I don't think Matt understood what 'permissible' meant in the context of autonomy legislation.


15.5.3.2.2 Application to Other Conferences. A member institution of a conference other than the five conferences named in Constitution 5.3.2.1.1 may use a full grant-in-aid in its equivalency computations as defined in Bylaw 15.02.5 or one that consists of tuition and fees, room and board, and required course-related books, subject to the discretion of its conference pursuant to Constitution 5.3.2.1.2.2. If the institution uses a full grant-in-aid that consists of tuition and fees, room and board, and required course-related books, financial aid unrelated to athletics ability received by a student-athlete in excess of a full grant-in-aid shall not be included in his or her equivalency computation.my emphasis added




Here is the text of the proposal: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Official%20Notice%20of%20Autonomy%20Proposals%201-12-15.pdf

You're looking for 2014-13. That's the proposal that was voted on. If you continue on, you will see four amendments that were up for discussion. They're labeled 2014-13-1 through 2014-13-4. (that means legislation proposed in 2014, 13th piece of proposed legislation this year, 1st proposed amendment and so forth) The only amendment that passed was 2014-13-1.



This is a Q&A document that was sent to the P5 representatives prior to the meeting to answer any questions they might have had: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2014-15%20Autonomy%20Legislation%20Q%20and%20A.pdf

Most of what I wrote above comes directly from this document.

[HerdBot]

Okay, I found the text of the FCOA legislation and it clears up a whole lot. Basically everything. Equivalencies, Matt Larson's mistake on Hallstrom's show, bunch of other stuff. A link to the legislation and a link to a Q&A made up for the P5 representatives is at the bottom.

Terms & acronyms: I'm going to use the terms from the legislation. According to the text, a full grant-in-aid(FGIA) is now the old full scholarship plus what we've been calling the COA stipend. The old idea of a full scholarship is now specifically listed as: "tuition and fees, room and board, and required course-related books". For the sake of brevity, I'm going to use the acronyms FGIA and GIA to refer to the two types.



How do FGIAs work?

First you need to understand how they've always worked in the past. Each student's aid is computed separately from everyone else's. That's how you deal with resident/non-resident/reciprocity students. You figure out the maximum dollar amount that that student can receive and you stick that number in the denominator of a fraction. Then you put the amount of money you're actually giving that student into the numerator. You divide the two, and the result is subtracted from your scholarship limit for that sport.

When dealing with FGIA, all you are doing is changing the number that goes into the denominator. Instead of the GIA, it's now the FGIA. The "stipend" is not considered a separate thing at all; it's included at the fundamental level for the calculation. You're not calculating a scholarship and then calculating a stipend. What you're doing is just increasing the value of what a full scholarship is for that student-athlete.

How do equivalency sports work?

Basically, no change. The first thing you decide is whether the student-athlete is a GIA or FGIA student. That determines what denominator you are going to use in the calculation. After that, everything stays the same.

Say a GIA is worth $5,000 and an FGIA is worth $10,000. If you declare a student a GIA and give him $5,000, you have used up 1 scholarship against your limit(5000/5000). If you declare him an FGIA and give him the same $5,000, he now only counts as a 0.5 scholarship against your limit(5000/10000).

Can you treat sports differently within the same athletic department?

You betcha. Not only that, but you can treat individual players differently on the same team. You can calculate some members on the team as GIA and others as FGIA. But the previous example should have shown you that there is no advantage to using the old GIA number. Whether you plan to use stipends or not, it's in the school's best interest to use the new FGIA number.

That said, Title IX applies to everything. It's federal law and no NCAA legislation can supersede it. You don't necessarily have to do it at exactly 1:1, but you better stay within the spirit of the law or else you will be in trouble.

Can conferences forbid schools from using FGIA?

I don't care what Matt Larson said on Hallstrom's radio show, conferences most certainly CAN forbid members from using FGIA. It's written right into the legislation. I don't think Matt understood what 'permissible' meant in the context of autonomy legislation.

my emphasis added




Here is the text of the proposal: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Official%20Notice%20of%20Autonomy%20Proposals%201-12-15.pdf

You're looking for 2014-13. That's the proposal that was voted on. If you continue on, you will see four amendments that were up for discussion. They're labeled 2014-13-1 through 2014-13-4. (that means legislation proposed in 2014, 13th piece of proposed legislation this year, 1st proposed amendment and so forth) The only amendment that passed was 2014-13-1.



This is a Q&A document that was sent to the P5 representatives prior to the meeting to answer any questions they might have had: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2014-15%20Autonomy%20Legislation%20Q%20and%20A.pdf

Most of what I wrote above comes directly from this document.

I'm not an attorney so I really don't know what any of this means. What does conference discretion mean? ML said that it means that they can make every team do it but can't tell teams they can't do it. Who knows.

I guess if our conference would forbid it, I want nothing to do with the conference anymore. I would liken it to a D2 conference that limits scholarships. If we're going to compete at the 2nd highest level, it has to be at the highest level. I want to compete against teams that want to spend resources and put the best product on the field. Otherwise might as well look to an FCS conference that would allow it or move up. No interest in watching watered down football.

With thst being said, I think half the conference teams are committed. Youngstown hires Pelini. Illinois State is clearly committed (coaching salaries/new stadium ) Southern Illinois (new stadium ) , SDSU (new stadium) and even UNI have shown dedication. Now the Indiana States of the world. ..

[HerdBot]

6:30 POV January 26-Part 1:
http://youtu.be/jZrLUkG9uCU

[Hammersmith]

Another way to look at this is that we basically could give out about 11.5* additional scholarships for football compared to the old way. If we do this and the rest of FCS(including most of the MVFC) does not, it will be like them having 63 scholarships while we have 75. Talk about an advantage.

Overall, it would be like another 33.5 scholarships spread over all sports except mbb, wbb & VB. Another 2.3 for MT&F, 3.3 for WT&F, 2.2 for SB and BB, 1.8 for WR, etc.





*I averaged the MN and tuition exchange states rate and added the suggested $1100 for books. Then I multiplied $3400 by 63 and divided by the first amount. Not perfect, but in the ballpark.

[bisonaudit]

Interesting. My take away from Matt's interview was that because of the legal uncertainties the NCAA legislation didn't allow conferences the option to restrict schools, but based on what Hammersmith has dug up it looks like the only thing stoping them is the prospect of being sued for collusion.

[Tatanka]

Interesting. My take away from Matt's interview was that because of the legal uncertainties the NCAA legislation didn't allow conferences the option to restrict schools, but based on what Hammersmith has dug up it looks like the only thing stoping them is the prospect of being sued for collusion.


Same. Would be interesting to get some clarification. One would think that is conference restrictions were imminent that athletic directors would be in tune to that fact.

[BYZEN]

Same. Would be interesting to get some clarification. One would think that is conference restrictions were imminent that athletic directors would be in tune to that fact.

I don't have time to look for it right now but I'm almost certain I saw an interview with Patty V were she said the MVFC would not restrict it's member schools but leave it up to each individual school to decide what is best for them.

[Gully]

So we were in dire financial straights back when we scheduled two FBS teams in two straight years?

The smack talking is fun and all, but be careful over-believing our own hype.

Wasn't that more just to get some games on the schedule when we were early in the transition though? I think they played Minnesota one year earlier than planned because they needed a game and the Gophers offered a nice check.

[Gully]

Interesting stuff as always Hammer.

[Bison03]

So we were in dire financial straights back when we scheduled two FBS teams in two straight years?

The smack talking is fun and all, but be careful over-believing our own hype.

I don't think we were in "dire financial straights" when we scheduled 2 FBS games in a season. In 2006 and 2007 NDSU, was still in the Great West Conference and only had 4 conference games so had to fill 7 non conference games; which is hard to do. Since we were not yet playoff eligible, playing 2 FBS games would not harm us, so why not get a game scheduled and get a bigger paycheck. Since we have been in the Valley in 2008, we have never had 2 FBS games on the schedule.

[THEsocalledfan]

I don't think we were in "dire financial straights" when we scheduled 2 FBS games in a season. In 2006 and 2007 NDSU, was still in the Great West Conference and only had 4 conference games so had to fill 7 non conference games; which is hard to do. Since we were not yet playoff eligible, playing 2 FBS games would not harm us, so why not get a game scheduled and get a bigger paycheck. Since we have been in the Valley in 2008, we have never had 2 FBS games on the schedule.

Have to agree with this. Thought the same exact thing after Hammer posted yesterday. It is clear UNI has had some financial issues.

[Hammersmith]

I don't think we were in "dire financial straights" when we scheduled 2 FBS games in a season. In 2006 and 2007 NDSU, was still in the Great West Conference and only had 4 conference games so had to fill 7 non conference games; which is hard to do. Since we were not yet playoff eligible, playing 2 FBS games would not harm us, so why not get a game scheduled and get a bigger paycheck. Since we have been in the Valley in 2008, we have never had 2 FBS games on the schedule.

That was my point. There are more reasons to schedule two FBS games in one year than just financial. We didn't do it for financial reasons back then, so let's not assume UNI is doing it for those reasons now. Especially since they've only done it twice, and one of those times was for the same reason we did it(FBS school comes calling, desperate for a game - MN in 2006 for us, Wisc for them).

[Bison"FANatic"]

That was my point. There are more reasons to schedule two FBS games in one year than just financial. We didn't do it for financial reasons back then, so let's not assume UNI is doing it for those reasons now. Especially since they've only done it twice, and one of those times was for the same reason we did it(FBS school comes calling, desperate for a game - MN in 2006 for us, Wisc for them).

Ya but if I remember right they did it after the state cut some funding and the athletic department was going through reportedly rough financial times. I even thought Farley had some comments on funding and how sometimes you have to do things you don't particularity want to do. Their board even seemed to be talking about having to do it to balance the books.

[taper]

With conferences allowed to limit this, who says the G5 will be fully funded? I can easily see the P5 be full, G5 40ish full/rest normal, and FCS a few or none full. If the G5 only goes partial we really wouldn't need any extra to compete for recruits since the ones they'd offer the stipend to would be on the P5/G5 edge, not the G5/FCS.

I can't see any FCS conference voting to 63 stipends. Nobody has the money for that. A few individual schools sure, but not a majority of any conference. Some may have no vote and allow anything, at least until enough members decide to make a motion.

Much more likely to see full stipend for basketball at FCS schools. For a lot of them BB is the only reason they're D1 to start with.

[RedRiver]

Ya but if I remember right they did it after the state cut some funding and the athletic department was going through reportedly rough financial times. I even thought Farley had some comments on funding and how sometimes you have to do things you don't particularity want to do. Their board even seemed to be talking about having to do it to balance the books.
One of the reasons Coach K. came to Fargo.

[bisonaudit]

With conferences allowed to limit this, who says the G5 will be fully funded? I can easily see the P5 be full, G5 40ish full/rest normal, and FCS a few or none full. If the G5 only goes partial we really wouldn't need any extra to compete for recruits since the ones they'd offer the stipend to would be on the P5/G5 edge, not the G5/FCS.

I can't see any FCS conference voting to 63 stipends. Nobody has the money for that. A few individual schools sure, but not a majority of any conference. Some may have no vote and allow anything, at least until enough members decide to make a motion.

Much more likely to see full stipend for basketball at FCS schools. For a lot of them BB is the only reason they're D1 to start with.

Just because the conference have the ability to restrict members doesn't mean that they will. At least for now, none of them will because they're all afraid of collusion charges. The way I understand it, until several cases that are already making their way through the legal system are concluded, you're not going to see any restrictive action by conferences and depending on how those cases are decided you may never see it.

[THEsocalledfan]

Just because the conference have the ability to restrict members doesn't mean that they will. At least for no, none of them will because they're all afraid of collusion charges. The way I understand it, until several cases that are already making their way through the legal system are concluded, you're not going to see any restrictive action by conferences and depending on how those cases are decided you may never see it.
Not to mention, MVFC would severely alienate NDSU if they did so.....great path to being less relevant than they already are......(remember the ESPN guys having to tell what conference NDSU is in when they beat K St....)

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[tjbison]

One of the reasons Coach K. came to Fargo.

This is when Farley made the comments about ndsu buying wins

[JMB]

I can see this thing starting a huge shakeup in FCS football. If NDSU and others who have resources start handing out "extra" money leaving most of the others behind, I could see the other schools taking steps to rebalance the balance the tables to make it more competitive. I could see a scholarship reduction, to free up money so everyone can pay a stipend.

[Mr Meaty]

I can see this thing starting a huge shakeup in FCS football. If NDSU and others who have resources start handing out "extra" money leaving most of the others behind, I could see the other schools taking steps to rebalance the balance the tables to make it more competitive. I could see a scholarship reduction, to free up money so everyone can pay a stipend.
If that is done was was really accomplished by providing the stipend? Nothing because a reduction in scholarships reduce the number of student athletes opportunities to a free or reduced education .

[JMB]

If that is done was was really accomplished by providing the stipend? Nothing because a reduction in scholarships reduce the number of student athletes opportunities to a free or reduced education .

Because you have 120+ FBS schools that can pay the stipend, so there is benefit for 1/2 of D1 football. The pushback would be for competitive balance. Hey we have seen it before... In D2, NDSU was the best financed program so they took steps to restore competitive balance. Now, to be honest, I am just a rube on a message board tossing out an idea for discussion.

[HerdBot]

I can see this thing starting a huge shakeup in FCS football. If NDSU and others who have resources start handing out "extra" money leaving most of the others behind, I could see the other schools taking steps to rebalance the balance the tables to make it more competitive. I could see a scholarship reduction, to free up money so everyone can pay a stipend.

Well you know darn well that the MVFC teams that don't offer then will get their ass handed to them in recruiting by the lower level FBS conferences like the MAC and MWC. That will severely weaken the caliber of athletes in the conference.

Eventually the teams who are losing out on players will pay the stipend or make other cuts.

Teams at the top of the FCS will do well and it will be the same ten teams every year.

At the end of the day this is natural selection for the FCS world. Teams who are not committed will get owned. The teams who are committed will excel. I'm pretty confident in the top half of the conference. The non committed teams will sink

[56BISON73]

Well you know darn well that the MVFC teams that don't offer then will get their ass handed to them in recruiting by the lower level FBS conferences like the MAC and MWC. That will severely weaken the caliber of athletes in the conference.

Eventually the teams who are losing out on players will pay the stipend or make other cuts.

Teams at the top of the FCS will do well and it will be the same ten teams every year


At the end of the day this is natural selection for the FCS world. Teams who are not committed will get owned. The teams who are committed will excel. I'm pretty confident in the top half of the conference. The non committed teams will sink


And when this all happens what will be the result? REALIGNMENT. But its going to take time to play out.

[perthbison]

And when this all happens what will be the result? REALIGNMENT. But its going to take time to play out.Sounds correct. How long will it take for shifting to start happening and will half of the mac teams and other G5s be able to raise the funds for this?

[56BISON73]

Sounds correct. How long will it take for shifting to start happening and will half of the mac teams and other G5s be able to raise the funds for this?

Clarification on the stipend rules. Then the first shots will be fired. Then I see some schools offer partial stipends to try and keep up. But with out strong fundraising they will see the writing on the wall. You will then see the weak schools position themselves with other schools with the same resources. I say about 5 years for the dust to settle..

I am more interested in what schools in the G5 and those below who might not be able to offer the extra money over the long haul. There will be some who wont be able to make the commitment. Which will actually put NDSU in a better position.

[td577]

Well you know darn well that the MVFC teams that don't offer then will get their ass handed to them in recruiting by the lower level FBS conferences like the MAC and MWC. That will severely weaken the caliber of athletes in the conference.

Eventually the teams who are losing out on players will pay the stipend or make other cuts.

Teams at the top of the FCS will do well and it will be the same ten teams every year.

At the end of the day this is natural selection for the FCS world. Teams who are not committed will get owned. The teams who are committed will excel. I'm pretty confident in the top half of the conference. The non committed teams will sink

So really nothing will look any different.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[HerdBot]

So really nothing will look any different.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

I think this is just the start and before you know it the power 5 will start offering 100 full rides with stipends. When that happens the rest of the FBS is pretty much screwed.

You'll see the top FBS teams try to join the power 5 or try and get their hands on the money. You'll see some bottom FBS teams either struggle or slide down to FCS. You'll see the top FCS schools move up to FBS. Heck may even see some programs drop football. I'm hopeful it just becomes one division with a playoff. That would be exciting.

[JMB]

Well you know darn well that the MVFC teams that don't offer then will get their ass handed to them in recruiting by the lower level FBS conferences like the MAC and MWC. That will severely weaken the caliber of athletes in the conference.

Eventually the teams who are losing out on players will pay the stipend or make other cuts.

Teams at the top of the FCS will do well and it will be the same ten teams every year.

At the end of the day this is natural selection for the FCS world. Teams who are not committed will get owned. The teams who are committed will excel. I'm pretty confident in the top half of the conference. The non committed teams will sink

Perhaps, but the point of two classes of Division 1 football is to create some competitive balance. Schools exist at this level because they choose to not fund at the FBS level. Now, the stipends could potentially create a competitive imbalance. It is entirely possible for the NCAA (ie the member institutions) to step in and correct that imbalance. Remember it is just a vote by the members. If it is just NDSU, Montana, and a handful of other teams paying the stipend, the other 100 members of FCS could most certainly change the rules, and would be well within their right to do so. Honestly at its core, isn't the entire point of the NCAA to regulate competition (as opposed to that Penn State fiasco they go themselves into)?

[unbison]

I think this is just the start and before you know it the power 5 will start offering 100 full rides with stipends. When that happens the rest of the FBS is pretty much screwed.

You'll see the top FBS teams try to join the power 5 or try and get their hands on the money. You'll see some bottom FBS teams either struggle or slide down to FCS. You'll see the top FCS schools move up to FBS. Heck may even see some programs drop football. I'm hopeful it just becomes one division with a playoff. That would be exciting.
So you want our football team to have the same chance at a national championship as our basketball team has?

[tjbison]

So you want our football team to have the same chance at a national championship as our basketball team has?

What..you saying we Couldn't beat Ohio St???

Blasphemy. ....


:)

[IndyBison]

I think this is just the start and before you know it the power 5 will start offering 100 full rides with stipends. When that happens the rest of the FBS is pretty much screwed.

You'll see the top FBS teams try to join the power 5 or try and get their hands on the money. You'll see some bottom FBS teams either struggle or slide down to FCS. You'll see the top FCS schools move up to FBS. Heck may even see some programs drop football. I'm hopeful it just becomes one division with a playoff. That would be exciting.

This is entirely possible and the bigger potential impact to an FCS school. Unless the number of scholarships change I don't see a significant difference in the players we get. Just because an FBS school can offer a stipend doesn't mean they get to recruit more players. They still only have a set number of scholarships. A kid trying to choose between NDSU and Wyoming isn't only choosing based on money.

I think the bigger impact on storms are within the same level if one school offers a stipend and the other doesn't because they are going head to head a lot more often.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

[marenlee]

So you want our football team to have the same chance at a national championship as our basketball team has?

Maybe he meant the FCS and G5 combining? That would be cool. It has been a popular theory here and other places. But even with all the shakeup going on I still have a hard time believing that would come to fruition.

[HerdBot]

So you want our football team to have the same chance at a national championship as our basketball team has?

You dont think we could win a national championship in a league that has more scholarships and doesn't include the power 5?

[unbison]

You dont think we could win a national championship in a league that has more scholarships and doesn't include the power 5?

You said one division .... Which would include power 5 if there is one division

[HerdBot]

You said one division .... Which would include power 5 if there is one division

Poorly worded on my part.

[Bison03]

Maybe he meant the FCS and G5 combining? That would be cool. It has been a popular theory here and other places. But even with all the shakeup going on I still have a hard time believing that would come to fruition.

I've always seen this as an option and maybe this whole "cost of attendance" will be another step towards that. When the P5 decide they want to do their own thing, that leaves the rest (American Athletic, Conference USA, Mid-American. Mountain West, and Sun Belt) without a home. Combine those conference with the upper ones in FCS (Big Sky, Colonial, Missouri Valley, Southland, and Ivy League) and make form the new NCAA Division I. Now obviously some major rearranging might have to be done as the bottom of the current FCS conferences I listed won't have the money and resources to be able to be at this leval. As well as the top teams from the other conferences like the Big South, MEAC, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Pioneer, Southern, and SWAC. If this new DI can get to a scholarship leval that works somewhere between 63-85 and also have the stipend to pay players, and all compete in a playoff; this could be a great brand of football. Now, the teams that can't afford to pay the players and afford the increase scholarships will be the new DII. Combine them with current upper half of DII. Then trickle down from there. This theory is obvious a major shift in college football. But with this new cost of attendance and the eventuall P5 split, major changes are coming. I just hope that NDSU continues to be in the second tier of DI football. I am confident Matt Larson and the athletic department will do that.

[HerdBot]

I've always seen this as an option and maybe this whole "cost of attendance" will be another step towards that. When the P5 decide they want to do their own thing, that leaves the rest (American Athletic, Conference USA, Mid-American. Mountain West, and Sun Belt) without a home. Combine those conference with the upper ones in FCS (Big Sky, Colonial, Missouri Valley, Southland, and Ivy League) and make form the new NCAA Division I. Now obviously some major rearranging might have to be done as the bottom of the current FCS conferences I listed won't have the money and resources to be able to be at this leval. As well as the top teams from the other conferences like the Big South, MEAC, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Pioneer, Southern, and SWAC. If this new DI can get to a scholarship leval that works somewhere between 63-85 and also have the stipend to pay players, and all compete in a playoff; this could be a great brand of football. Now, the teams that can't afford to pay the players and afford the increase scholarships will be the new DII. Combine them with current upper half of DII. Then trickle down from there. This theory is obvious a major shift in college football. But with this new cost of attendance and the eventuall P5 split, major changes are coming. I just hope that NDSU continues to be in the second tier of DI football. I am confident Matt Larson and the athletic department will do that.

I love the idea of having a 2nd level FBS conference of...

Conference USA
Mid-American Conference
Mountain West Conference
Sun Belt Conference

Joined by

Missouri Valley
Big Sky
CAA
Southland

Sone of the bubble conferences would be the so-con, Big South, and OVC.

Conferences that dont want to go would see teams jump to conferences that would. Let's say the OVC drops down. The Eastern Illinois and Jacksonville States would likely move to the MVFC. Or if the Southland goes but the SoCon or Big South doesnt, would probably see the good teams like Chattanooga, Liberty and Coastal Carolina switch conferences

Total speculation but I would love to see something like this.

Would be awesome

[Honeybooboo]

I love the idea of having a 2nd level FBS conference of...

Conference USA
Mid-American Conference
Mountain West Conference
Sun Belt Conference

Joined by

Missouri Valley
Big Sky
CAA
Southland

Sone of the bubble conferences would be the so-con, Big South, and OVC.

Conferences that dont want to go would see teams jump to conferences that would. Let's say the OVC drops down. The Eastern Illinois and Jacksonville States would likely move to the MVFC. Or if the Southland goes but the SoCon or Big South doesnt, would probably see the good teams like Chattanooga, Liberty and Coastal Carolina switch conferences

Total speculation but I would love to see something like this.

Would be awesome

Not every team in the current MVFC will be able to sustain a higher level, WIU, ISU-B, USD and even possibly SIU

i guess its possible but I dont see it, hell I think SDSU would be on the fringe

[IndyBison]

Not every team in the current MVFC will be able to sustain a higher level, WIU, ISU-B, USD and even possibly SIU

i guess its possible but I dont see it, hell I think SDSU would be on the fringe

This is why the people looking at the big picture for the NCAA felt this was a bad idea. Just because a small percentage can do it, doesn't mean it's good for the whole. Careful what you ask for because you may get it. And you may not like what actually happens.

[NDSUstudent]

I think this is just the start and before you know it the power 5 will start offering 100 full rides with stipends. When that happens the rest of the FBS is pretty much screwed.

I don't think for one second the P5 schools like Minnesota, Indiana, Kansas, Duke, etc want that to happen, even the mid-level p5 football programs wouldn't want it. Doing that would make most of them completely noncompetitive and they know that.

[bisonaudit]

This is about the P5 doing the minimum amount necessary to prevent a labor rebellion without completely destroying the ecosystems of their football and basketball money machines.

[NDSUstudent]

The only thing I will say about the stipend thing is that I don't think it is good at all for the FCS. Most programs are struggling, the gap between the haves and have nots just got even bigger. That imbalance is never a good thing.

I think this is part of the reason why one FCS conference basically gave up on the playoffs and decided to do their own thing.

[perthbison]

And you may not like what actually happens.This is definitely a concern I have. We consider ourselves as good as or better than the G5s except possibly the MW but the average fan, donor, player, etc in the G5s consider themselves better and more relevant cause they're FBS. I have a feeling that they're not gonna want to realign in such a way that they're "merrily equivalent" to the top 1/4 of the FCS. For the last many years all they've had on us is the FBS label and they'll use their voting power to cling to that status symbol. there must be 50 or so programs in this category whose top ten to do list doesn't include helping NDSU get to where theyshould be, especially if that means possibly more relevant than themselves[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[Bisonator98]

I wonder if they don't eventually just go to one division. You either fully fund 85 scholarships or you don't fund any and play D3 or club football. Expand the CFP to 16 and incorporate the Bowls into it. I wonder how many schools would stick it out. Probably have to split the conferences into FB only to make it work.

[1998braves64]

I wonder if they don't eventually just go to one division. You either fully fund 85 scholarships or you don't fund any and play D3 or club football. Expand the CFP to 16 and incorporate the Bowls into it. I wonder how many schools would stick it out. Probably have to split the conferences into FB only to make it work.


Don't see that happening and would be bad for football. Best thing is a separation by P5 to do their own thing and keep their football money. Then instead of subsidizing the G5 they will have to swallow a bit of ego and look to upper level FCS teams which NDSU has firmly planted themselves there for the next decade minimum, wheels would really have to fall off hard... This would be new Division I NCAA championship football division. Lower FCS and DII combine and maybe some same there and on and on. There likely are going to be some waves following all the way to bottom regardless. Seems that is direction all of this is going anyway.

[HazenBizon]

I wonder if they don't eventually just go to one division. You either fully fund 85 scholarships or you don't fund any and play D3 or club football. Expand the CFP to 16 and incorporate the Bowls into it. I wonder how many schools would stick it out. Probably have to split the conferences into FB only to make it work.

16 is too many without going to home sites, and for some reason the FBS seems to be totally against that.

[IndyBison]

16 is too many without going to home sites, and for some reason the FBS seems to be totally against that.
They will eventually get there though

[tony]

16 is too many without going to home sites, and for some reason the FBS seems to be totally against that.

It's not so much that the FBS is against home sites. The BCS folks are the main opponents because they are he ones who get all the "we're hosting a bowl game" perks.