Where is Heagle?

[gizmo]

Ok, don't go all bonkers because of this thread's title. It is a legitimate football question that I believe gets to the heart of why the Bison defense seems to be struggling. We seldom see Heagle making the big plays near the line of scrimmage these days as he is covering receivers downfield. Is this a defensive scheme or is it a strategy used by the opposition to get him away from the LOS?

[A1pigskin]

Ok, don't go all bonkers because of this thread's title. It is a legitimate football question that I believe gets to the heart of why the Bison defense seems to be struggling. We seldom see Heagle making the big plays near the line of scrimmage these days as he is covering receivers downfield. Is this a defensive scheme or is it a strategy used by the opposition to get him away from the LOS?

I was noticing this as well.

[BisoninNWMN]

I think he has been playing pretty well. He and Dudzik have been dinged up all year.

[BisonCardinal]

He's busy catching interceptions at the end of the game to seal the deal...

[gizmo]

I think he has been playing pretty well. He and Dudzik have been dinged up all year.

I'm not criticizing Heagle's play.

[tony]

Well, he did lead the team in tackles, but I know what you're saying. I'm thinking it's more of a scheme thing. If teams start going sideways, the Golden Eagle will strike.

[fbmind]

Ok, don't go all bonkers because of this thread's title. It is a legitimate football question that I believe gets to the heart of why the Bison defense seems to be struggling. We seldom see Heagle making the big plays near the line of scrimmage these days as he is covering receivers downfield. Is this a defensive scheme or is it a strategy used by the opposition to get him away from the LOS?

This is a good question. As someone who is a football coach, it appears to be both a strategy by the opposition and defensive scheme. In the last two games, both teams have done a lot to spread the Bison out (there is the strategy by the opposition). Schematically, NDSU is a Tampa 2, so generally speaking when the other team goes to a spread, they go into their nickel package and play a 2-high safety look (the Tampa 2)...Heagle is one of those safeties.

The significance of this is that Heagle is at his best when he is able to play in the box (near the line of scrimmage). But because of what other teams are doing right now in terms of alignment, he is forced to play back more in that 2 high look, which takes away his ability to do more at the line of scrimmage like we are used to seeing.

Late in the game however, I did notice that the Bison were doing more to change things up and get Heagle towards the line of scrimmage by giving a 2-high look and than rotating to a single safety, man-under look. This was bringing Heagle to the line of scrimmage...and I would not be surprised to see more of this next week. It was very effective in the 4th quarter.

[westnodak93bison]

Thanks for the info.

[NorthernBison]

Well, he did lead the team in tackles, but I know what you're saying. I'm thinking it's more of a scheme thing. If teams start going sideways, the Golden Eagle will strike.

Simple answer? Travis Beck got hurt. The effects are numerous. Especially in coverage schemes.

[Ndsu84]

This is a good question. As someone who is a football coach, it appears to be both a strategy by the opposition and defensive scheme. In the last two games, both teams have done a lot to spread the Bison out (there is the strategy by the opposition). Schematically, NDSU is a Tampa 2, so generally speaking when the other team goes to a spread, they go into their nickel package and play a 2-high safety look (the Tampa 2)...Heagle is one of those safeties.

The significance of this is that Heagle is at his best when he is able to play in the box (near the line of scrimmage). But because of what other teams are doing right now in terms of alignment, he is forced to play back more in that 2 high look, which takes away his ability to do more at the line of scrimmage like we are used to seeing.

Late in the game however, I did notice that the Bison were doing more to change things up and get Heagle towards the line of scrimmage by giving a 2-high look and than rotating to a single safety, man-under look. This was bringing Heagle to the line of scrimmage...and I would not be surprised to see more of this next week. It was very effective in the 4th quarter.

Great answer! My wife and I were talking the past 3 weeks about how the coaches could get Heagle forward but I had no idea how.

He had a tremendous game.

I'm a big Thornton fan too but he's gotta get violent.

[EC8CH]

Drevlow, Perry, Leucke are gone....

This years DTs have done a great job stepping up, but we're just not as big strong and deep as we were last year in the defensive interior line. We are not owing the los like last year making it more difficult for the LBs and safeties coming up in run support.

That's what I see anyway.

[ZHerd]

This. We are not getting the penetration, push, and plays in the backfield like previous seasons. Next year these young guys will be better with experience etc. but I hope we can land a big athletic DT recruit who can step in immediately. We need help here

[X-Factor]

Next year we need Farnlof and Morgan to up their game in a big way if we are going to compete with Illinois State for the MVFC crown, and even put some pressure on the current starters. As for the defensive ends, it's going to be Ambrosius and Menard, then after that ????

As for right now in the semifinal and hopefully the chipper; I think they figured something out in the 4th quarter yesterday. That should play into the gameplan for Sammy. Heagle should be playing in the box since Sammy isn't going to be a big passing threat. Stop the run and the game is over. The Bison need to play contain on passing downs and now blast upfield with the defensive ends. Easier said than done. Sammy just isn't going to beat us throwing the ball (like they did to Villanova) so there is no point in sacrificing the run defense to help out the pass rush.

[unbison]

This. We are not getting the penetration, push, and plays in the backfield like previous seasons. Next year these young guys will be better with experience etc. but I hope we can land a big athletic DT recruit who can step in immediately. We need help here
Appreciate your take but landing a interior dline that can contribute immediately is as likely as a true freshman starting on the oline these guys are made in their redshirt year

[MontBison]

Crazy thought but they had Dempsey playing some safety early in the year. I wonder if they'd ever consider playing heags at his safety position in there base and then when they play nickel bring in Dempsey and put him back in the safety spot and bring heagle up to play corner just to get him closer to the LOS.

[BisonHorns]

It seemed like the defense was muscling their way to the quarterback and then in the 4th they worked smarter and got to him.

[Bison 4 Life]

Simple answer? Travis Beck got hurt. The effects are numerous. Especially in coverage schemes.

We can't keep going to that excuse. There needs to be some game planning as described above to let our athleticism get loose.

[Bison Bridge Guy]

We can't keep going to that excuse. There needs to be some game planning as described above to let our athleticism get loose.

I think Heagle and Dudzik are a little worn out. The have played a lot of football and made a lot of hits and tackles over the years. Is it possible to rotate someone in (Board?) once in a while? Kid can hit. Limited experience of course.

[Bisonator98]

Well if I was the coach I'd put Dempsey in at safety and move Heagle to LB. He's a much better tackler then Thornton IMO. Thornton has been out of position/missed too many tackles as of late.

[KyleK]

Well if I was the coach I'd put Dempsey in at safety and move Heagle to LB. He's a much better tackler then Thornton IMO. Thornton has been out of position/missed too many tackles as of late.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Agreed

[NorthernBison]

We can't keep going to that excuse. There needs to be some game planning as described above to let our athleticism get loose.

It's not an excuse. You can't coach speed and you can't snap your fingers and suddenly have a replacement that does what Travis did. Carlton hasn't played that position for 3 seasons and he was the backup to Travis then. There's reasons for that.

It's not personal. If you've really watched our corners all season you are aware that they aren't tall and they have consistently been slower than the receivers they are trying to cover.

You can hide that when there is a strong pass rush and the Tampa 2 scheme also uses the safeties to help.

There is plenty of knowledge on how to defeat the Tampa 2 and where the weaknesses are. One big strategy is to get a WR on a LB.

Travis could be counted on to take on slot and WR and we didn't need to help him.

Stopping the run was aided because Heagle and Dud could come up aggressively as soon as they read it. Now everybody needs to hedge more to avoid the big play.

Travis hasn't played the last two games. We have played two pretty good offenses but I don't think the yards and points we've given up in those two games is a coincidence.

[BisoninNWMN]

It's not an excuse. You can't coach speed and you can't snap your fingers and suddenly have a replacement that does what Travis did. Carlton hasn't played that position for 3 seasons and he was the backup to Travis then. There's reasons for that.

It's not personal. If you've really watched our corners all season you are aware that they aren't tall and they have consistently been slower than the receivers they are trying to cover.

You can hide that when there is a strong pass rush and the Tampa 2 scheme also uses the safeties to help.

There is plenty of knowledge on how to defeat the Tampa 2 and where the weaknesses are. One big strategy is to get a WR on a LB.

Travis could be counted on to take on slot and WR and we didn't need to help him.

Stopping the run was aided because Heagle and Dud could come up aggressively as soon as they read it. Now everybody needs to hedge more to avoid the big play.

Travis hasn't played the last two games. We have played two pretty good offenses but I don't think the yards and points we've given up in those two games is a coincidence.



and........the Bison still won those games.

[Bisonator98]

I think the hope was that Gee-Tucker would be able to play much like Beck but unfortunately his injuries just haven't allowed him to develop and not sure he has the speed anymore.

[NorthernBison]

and........the Bison still won those games.

Yes. Because they made just enough stops AND our offense is scoring.

It's a real balanced team effort.

[17>1]

I think Heagle and Dudzik are a little worn out. The have played a lot of football and made a lot of hits and tackles over the years. Is it possible to rotate someone in (Board?) once in a while? Kid can hit. Limited experience of course.

I tend to agree with the worn out factor, but it's just an opinion of mine as well. The way our guys looked yesterday to me was a beat up group of fighters that keep coming out when the bell rings.

[Hail bison]

It's not an excuse. You can't coach speed and you can't snap your fingers and suddenly have a replacement that does what Travis did. Carlton hasn't played that position for 3 seasons and he was the backup to Travis then. There's reasons for that.

It's not personal. If you've really watched our corners all season you are aware that they aren't tall and they have consistently been slower than the receivers they are trying to cover.

You can hide that when there is a strong pass rush and the Tampa 2 scheme also uses the safeties to help.

There is plenty of knowledge on how to defeat the Tampa 2 and where the weaknesses are. One big strategy is to get a WR on a LB.

Travis could be counted on to take on slot and WR and we didn't need to help him.

Stopping the run was aided because Heagle and Dud could come up aggressively as soon as they read it. Now everybody needs to hedge more to avoid the big play.

Travis hasn't played the last two games. We have played two pretty good offenses but I don't think the yards and points we've given up in those two games is a coincidence.

You're putting way too much on the loss of Beck. I'll tell you what we miss more and that's Carlton in the middle.

[Bison Bridge Guy]

You're putting way too much on the loss of Beck. I'll tell you what we miss more and that's Carlton in the middle.

Which is a result of losing Beck.

[bisonridge]

If we can manage to get by the kats, a break will be much needed.

[CAS4127]

I think all of this is a bit of an overreaction. We only gave up about 250 yards to the Jacks. Penalties kept several of there drives alive. Yesterday was a different animal. When we went back to basically our base D schemes their last 3 drives they gained 15 total yards. Our DC did not do a very good job yesterday of giving our players the best chance to make plays, and I am sure he is well aware if that.


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[StL Bison Fan]

I think all of this is a bit of an overreaction. We only gave up about 250 yards to the Jacks. Penalties kept several of there drives alive. Yesterday was a different animal. When we went back to basically our base D schemes their last 3 drives they gained 15 total yards. Our DC did not do a very good job yesterday of giving our players the best chance to make plays, and I am sure he is well aware if that.


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I think this is correct. Big difference at the end. I'm sure it was discussed.

[Hail bison]

Which is a result of losing Beck.

We're doomed

[BYZEN]

I think this is correct. Big difference at the end. I'm sure it was discussed.

Great job by Entz and company for making the right adjustments and finding their kryptonite.

[Bison Bridge Guy]

We're doomed

Not at all. Just saying that LJ is not at mlb because Beck got hurt.

[Hail bison]

Not at all. Just saying that LJ is not at mlb because Beck got hurt.

I know. Just joking around

[Herd12]

One of the big reasons you don't see Heagle making any plays is for whatever reason the "big nickel" package with 3 safeties has left us when Shepherd left. Heagle would drop down in the slot and play with Beck and LJ after Grant Olson went out last season and that doesn't happen as often this year. In the nickel package Heagle and Dudzik are playing off the ball and it takes a while to get from 12-17 yards away from the LOS to the ball carrier. I know both the safeties are dinged but this is what happens when teams spread us out. If the opposing team was running a pro-style or triple option set you'd see Heagle closer to the LOS.

[KC Bison]

There's nothing like an offense gaining 500 yards to help out a struggling defense.

[CaBisonFan]

There's nothing like an offense gaining 500 yards to help out a struggling defense.Who would have thought this was going to happen before the season started?

[BlueBisonRock]

Heagle? Seems I just read something about him... Oh, First Team All American! Come on Eagle, there is no way you are going to win at the Where's Waldo game with that kind of visibility.


Serious now. Outstanding job by this talented Bison.

[steelbison]

I think all of this is a bit of an overreaction. We only gave up about 250 yards to the Jacks. Penalties kept several of there drives alive. Yesterday was a different animal. When we went back to basically our base D schemes their last 3 drives they gained 15 total yards. Our DC did not do a very good job yesterday of giving our players the best chance to make plays, and I am sure he is well aware if that.


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Couldn't agree more Charlie!!!!!!!!

Couldn't understand the defense for 3 quarters Saturday. Our number one goal should have been to stop the run. Make them one dimensional. But we played nickel most of the time..

[THEsocalledfan]

Couldn't agree more Charlie!!!!!!!!

Couldn't understand the defense for 3 quarters Saturday. Our number one goal should have been to stop the run. Make them one dimensional. But we played nickel most of the time..

I wonder, though, how much did losing Maps hurt them? That guy was solid and may have allowed NDSU to return to base defense?

[CAS4127]

You know, I've been looking for Heags too! And I found him-->ON TWO FIRST TEAM ALL-AMERICAN LISTS, AND A BB FINALIST LIST!!

Nuff said!!


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[KC Bison]

I wonder, though, how much did losing Maps hurt them? That guy was solid and may have allowed NDSU to return to base defense?

Not as much as us losing Vraa for the entire game.