Officials for 12-6-14

[Elvis was a Bison]

I don't know if the NCAA thinks this deep, but what are the chances that we get a MVFC crew here and for the Ill. St. - UNI games this weekend. It makes sense because all participants are MVFC teams and it should cut travel expense just like regionalization. I think it would make for better football if these games were officiated in a manner that the teams were used to instead of having to deal with different conference standards. Your thoughts???

[Tatanka]

I don't know if the NCAA thinks this deep, but what are the chances that we get a MVFC crew here and for the Ill. St. - UNI games this weekend. It makes sense because all participants are MVFC teams and it should cut travel expense just like regionalization. I think it would make for better football if these games were officiated in a manner that the teams were used to instead of having to deal with different conference standards. Your thoughts???


Hope not. Problem is we'll probably see a heavy dose of big fluffy

[BYZEN]

hope not. Problem is we'll probably see a heavy dose of big fluffy

oh god no!!!!!!!

[IndyBison]

From what I've heard the crew is from the Southern Conference for the UNI-ISU game. In playoffs, the NCAA and NAIA do not assign crews from a participating conference in any playoff game even if teams from the same conference are playing each other. That's a bummer to have so many MFVC team in the playoffs. It limits the playoff assignments they can get.

I know a MVFC crew is working the Jacksonville State game this weekend.

[Hammerhead]

Most people forget that the worst call in the EWU playoff game wasn't the "fumble" in overtime. It was a personal foul called on NDSU when it was the EWU player pulling #63 to the ground at about 0:28 into this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI

[HoopsBison]

Most people forget that the worst call in the EWU playoff game wasn't the "fumble" in overtime. It was a personal foul called on NDSU when it was the EWU player pulling #63 to the ground at about 0:28 into this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI

Damn I hate that game...

[Bisonator98]

Damn I hate that game...

Exactly!

You just had to bring that back up didn't ya, check neg rep Hammer! :ranting:

[BisonNeil]

In my personal opinion the Valley refs are the worst in FCS, by a wide margin. I think the quality of reffing goes up substantially in the playoffs largely because we don't have those blind dickheads calling a game. Whomever they are my guess is that they will be much more likely to call holding on the Bunny LT. who spent most of the last game trying to rip KEs jersey off.

[acf2]

In my personal opinion the Valley refs are the worst in FCS, by a wide margin. I think the quality of reffing goes up substantially in the playoffs largely because we don't have those blind dickheads calling a game. Whomever they are my guess is that they will be much more likely to call holding on the Bunny LT. who spent most of the last game trying to rip KEs jersey off.

Big fluffy refs are way worse.

[BYZEN]

Big fluffy refs are way worse.


THIS I have to agree with ^^^

[BisonNeil]

Big fluffy refs are way worse.

I don't remember which playoff game it was last year but we had Fluffy refs in the dome and there was absolutely no game in the playoffs reffed as poorly as we see week and week out in the Valley. None!

[southcliffbison]

Big fluffy refs are way worse.

The NCAA is trying to do a playoff "on the cheap"...... hence the Pig Sty Conference refs.

[BYZEN]

Seriously, did this officiating crew get of the bus from Brookings? They suck dock!

[NDSUstudent]

In my personal opinion the Valley refs are the worst in FCS, by a wide margin. I think the quality of reffing goes up substantially in the playoffs largely because we don't have those blind dickheads calling a game. Whomever they are my guess is that they will be much more likely to call holding on the Bunny LT. who spent most of the last game trying to rip KEs jersey off.
Meac and big fluffy refs are much worse

Sent from my A0001

[SoCalBison]

In my personal opinion the Valley refs are the worst in FCS, by a wide margin. I think the quality of reffing goes up substantially in the playoffs largely because we don't have those blind dickheads calling a game. Whomever they are my guess is that they will be much more likely to call holding on the Bunny LT. who spent most of the last game trying to rip KEs jersey off.

Gotta say, today's crew leaves a lot to be desired...right off the bat, they couldn't shift position to get out of the way. They just seem not ready for this level.

[BisonTeacher]

Hate to rag on refs...but these guys are having a rough day. What conf they from?

[marenlee]

CAA refs? Good god. Bad calls on both sides.

[SoCalBison]

My earlier comment was at halftime. Hard to believe but the calls were even worse in the second half. Thank god that "tipped ball" call was so obviously BS. Had it been anywhere near the defender (since it was 6-feet over his head), I bet they would have let it stand. Whoever said the refs need to be investigated is right. These guys have no business being on any football field ever again. Just plain lousy.

[BisonTeacher]

CAA refs? Good god. Bad calls on both sides.

Ahhh that explains it. The SEC of FCS.

[NDSUstudent]

Weren't the EWU game refs CAA?

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[BisonHorns]

These refs were awful.

[bandit218]

These refs were awful.

They weren't that bad. The umpire plays a mean linebacker position and the tipped pass really could've gone either way.

[BisonNeil]

They weren't that bad. The umpire plays a mean linebacker position and the tipped pass really could've gone either way.

When you write shit like that it really needs to be in purple or everyone will think you are a dumbass like the head ref was today.

[roadwarrior]

Definitely CAA. I asked the referee before the coin toss.

[NDSUBowler]

They weren't that bad. The umpire plays a mean linebacker position and the tipped pass really could've gone either way.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--oDzIgyJi--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/18heur1z2xqvogif.gif

[bloodmakesthegrassgrow]

Weren't the EWU game refs CAA?

Sent from my A0001

Nope, they were from a Pacific or Western confernce, FBS possibly. Hard to tell which were worse, those, or these CAA asshats today.

[BISONFAN4LIFE]

In my personal opinion the Valley refs are the worst in FCS, by a wide margin. I think the quality of reffing goes up substantially in the playoffs largely because we don't have those blind dickheads calling a game. Whomever they are my guess is that they will be much more likely to call holding on the Bunny LT. who spent most of the last game trying to rip KEs jersey off.

Sorry to say but your theory was just disproved. I wouldn't let these guys do my kids FM Athlectics game.

[NDSUstudent]

Nope, they were from a Pacific or Western confernce, FBS possibly. Hard to tell which were worse, those, or these CAA asshats today.

I'm fairly certain the refs were from the CAA and the replay official was from the Pac 12.

I found the box score, the refs were definitely CAA outside of course the infamous replay ref.

[bandit218]

These guys couldn't get a catch right with replay. I know being a ref is tough but WOW on some of these calls today.

[gumby013]

Tipped pass...

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/gumby013/tippednot.jpg

[westnodak93bison]

Refs blew at least couple pi calls. Big one imho

[Bisonator98]

Worst officiating I've ever seen and that's saying something. I hope that crew is fired or at the very least pulled for the rest of the playoffs. :ranting:

[Hammerhead]

Does the NCAA just pick playoff officials at random or are the highest-graded ones given additional work in the playoffs like the NFL does?

[chuckles]

They tried to be our 2014 version of Bill Fette, but we won this time!

[BYZEN]

They are an "all star" crew? This much I heard on the radio driving to the basketball game. The next question is, have they ever worked together before and how much did they each have bet on the Jack's?

[tjamz]

Sdsu played very very well today. The refs won't change that.... however I think the refs we have at West Fargo Park District flag football could have called a better game than what was on the field. I was forced to watch with no sound at my in-laws house as we celebrated Christmas with my brother-in-law and his family from out of state. Having no sound on made the game even worse. I couldn't tell initially if the refs sucked that bad or what the hell they were actually calling for penalties. Fortunately I had sound for the last quarter as we were done passing out gifts to the kids by then so I was allowed to turn up the volume on the tv.

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[marenlee]

Sdsu played very very well today. The refs won't change that.... however I think the refs we have at West Fargo Park District flag football could have called a better game than what was on the field. I was forced to watch with no sound at my in-laws house as we celebrated Christmas with my brother-in-law and his family from out of state. Having no sound on made the game even worse. I couldn't tell initially if the refs sucked that bad or what the hell they were actually calling for penalties. Fortunately I had sound for the last quarter as we were done passing out gifts to the kids by then so I was allowed to turn up the volume on the tv.

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:facepalm: Priorities man. :D

[BisonNeil]

Tipped pass...

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/gumby013/tippednot.jpg

One of the worst calls by an umpire ever. You have to be completely incompetent to make that call (I originally wrote blind but that would be an insult to those with that disadvantage).

[unbison]

Losers complain about officiating we at ndsu are winners..... Don't take anything away from sdsu aS they gave us all we could handle today good game rabbits

[HoopsBison]

I doubt the culprit is a Bisonviller but I was really disappointed to see someone throw a bottle in the direction of one of the refs. That shit aint cool and it makes us look horrible, not to mention cant we get flagged for that?

[CAS4127]

Losers complain about officiating we at ndsu are winners..... Don't take anything away from sdsu aS they gave us all we could handle today good game rabbits

Ya, whatever!! We got jobbed today and if you didn't see that you are effing blind. Terrible officiating!

But, I spose the entire done fanbase at Done was wrong when we booood the refs as they walked off field at half.

Ya, WE ALL got it wrong. Whatever....


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[BisonTeacher]

I doubt the culprit is a Bisonviller but I was really disappointed to see someone throw a bottle in the direction of one of the refs. That shit aint cool and it makes us look horrible, not to mention cant we get flagged for that?

If someone did that they should lose their tickets forever. Refs were bad...but thats ridiculous.

[BisoninNWMN]

One of the worst calls by an umpire ever. You have to be completely incompetent to make that call (I originally wrote blind but that would be an insult to those with that disadvantage).


He came running across the field to say it was tipped....:facepalm:

Thank goodness that there is replay for the playoffs!!!!

[SafeTeeJ]

Ya, whatever!! We got jobbed today and if you didn't see that you are effing blind. Terrible officiating!

But, I spose the entire done fanbase at Done was wrong when we booood the refs as they walked off field at half.

Ya, WE ALL got it wrong. Whatever....




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you get shut down this weekend, CAS? :biggrin: Bad calls, yes. But we shouldn't have been in a position to have let them that close to affect the outcome. I hoped our O ad D coordinators learned a lot from this game.

[HoopsBison]

If someone did that they should lose their tickets forever. Refs were bad...but thats ridiculous.

Absolutely happened, South Endzone, corner ref threw a flag for a personal foul late hit when it was really a flop by the SDSU player. The official who had it happen right in front him overruled the corner ref and they picked the flag up. I agree its classless move and shouldn't be tolerated. I dont even think the fan was removed from the game. It came from one of the first four rows, so it wasnt a long toss.

[SafeTeeJ]

BTW...is Dudzik hurt? Seemed to be off in lots of phases of his game today.

[aces1180]

I liked it that Larsen was giving it to that crappy line judge after those crappy PI calls in the 4th quarter.

[CAS4127]

you get shut down this weekend, CAS? :biggrin: Bad calls, yes. But we shouldn't have been in a position to have let them that close to affect the outcome. I hoped our O ad D coordinators learned a lot from this game.

TJ, this is THE ONLY game I have ever blamed the refs--hope that tells you something, given we are Bison brothers.

It was THAT bad.


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[SafeTeeJ]

TJ, this is THE ONLY game I have ever blamed the refs--hope that tells you something, given we are Bison brothers.

It was THAT bad.


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I hear ya! just trying to keep your rep as a great football mind, intact. What doesn't kill us.....

[CAS4127]

I hear ya! just trying to keep your rep as a great football mind, intact. What doesn't kill us.....

Bison Pride!!


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[Bisonator98]

Losers complain about officiating we at ndsu are winners..... Don't take anything away from sdsu aS they gave us all we could handle today good game rabbits

I'm gonna complain because it was terrible. They blew so many calls both ways it would have been comical if it had been a scrimmage. Both teams deserved better today.

[SafeTeeJ]

Bison Pride!!


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No doubt. Reminded me of the Millersville game in 88

[Tatanka]

Absolutely happened, South Endzone, corner ref threw a flag for a personal foul late hit when it was really a flop by the SDSU player. The official who had it happen right in front him overruled the corner ref and they picked the flag up. I agree its classless move and shouldn't be tolerated. I dont even think the fan was removed from the game. It came from one of the first four rows, so it wasnt a long toss.


Agree. Section 8 or 9. Couldn't tell which. Could absolutely have been flagged. Unacceptable.

[BisonHorns]

I couldn't stay of the webs as I can't believe some of the bad calls tonight. The centerpiece is the tipped ball call. Just think that without replay that loser could mess up that bad and stand by it with 20,000 others watching helplessly. Usually refs suck or they blow but these shopvacs managed both.
*Jacks played a hellova good game and I have both fear and respect for them...ferspect. Good luck to their seniors in the future! Glad we had the ball last.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

Agree. Section 8 or 9. Couldn't tell which. Could absolutely have been flagged. Unacceptable.

Agreed. If you're going to throw something at the ref., make damned sure you hit him. :biggrin:

Seriously, this was the worst officiated game I have ever been to in my life. I've always said that refs. never lose a game for a team, if they suck, they suck both ways. Well, tonight I was proven wrong. These refs. sucked big time, and they mostly sucked for us. They were handing out PI penalties like Salvation Army bell ringers hand out candy canes at Christmas time. Most of these penalties came at very crucial times in the game, and of course, most of the penalties were against us. Without a doubt, these refs almost cost us this game. It was that bad.

[CAS4127]

Agreed. If you're going to throw something at the ref., make damned sure you hit him. :biggrin:

Seriously, this was the worst officiated game I have ever been to in my life. I've always said that refs. never lose a game for a team, if they suck, they suck both ways. Well, tonight I was proven wrong. These refs. sucked big time, and they mostly sucked for us. They were handing out PI penalties like Salvation Army bell ringers hand out candy canes at Christmas time. Most of these penalties came a very crucial times in the game, and of course, most of the penalties were against us. Without a doubt, these refs almost cost us this game. It was that bad.

You nailed it with this post. Read and absorb it people, cuz it is spot fucking on!!

I'm still pissed ... and we won.

Just don't want to get jobbed again.


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[tjamz]

:facepalm: Priorities man. :D

I've been divorced before.... it's not as much fun as it sounds like it would be.

[NDSUstudent]

It was embarrassing that our coach had to tell the refs that they just gave SDSU a bonus six seconds. Not sure I've ever seen an officiating crew add more time to the clock then a team had when it started its drive.

The tip call was also embarrassing, still not even sure how somebody could have came to that conclusion, from my seat in the south endzone I could clearly tell it wasn't tipped.

[IBleedYellow]

I have never in my life left a game that NDSU has won so mad as I was tonight.

Holy shit those refs had 19,000 people furious at them including BOTH teams, not just one team.
Screw them.

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[Tatanka]

I would love to hear indy's take on this crew and their exploits. No purple.
Sent from somewhere on teh intarwebs

[CAS4127]

I have never in my life left a game that NDSU has won so mad as I was tonight.

Holy shit those refs had 19,000 people furious at them including BOTH teams, not just one team.
Screw them.

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I'm still pissed, and we won ... and it's 11 effing 30.

That was terrible officiating--terrible!


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[bisonpride4ever]

It was a good thing Phil was in the booth and not the on field reporter. He absolutely went berserker when they tried to add time to the clock.


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[HoopsBison]

Officiating is an incredibly tough thing to do, I can give a pass on some off the PI's that's a judgement call made on the fly. But missing a blatant Delay of Game, the tipped pass debacle, and adding extra seconds to the game clock are pretty inexcusable. These guys want to do their best and call a good game, today wasn't their best.

[Bison Loaf]

I'm still pissed, and we won ... and it's 11 effing 30.

That was terrible officiating--terrible!


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I know sometimes there are mistakes, and bad calls, and whatever else. But today's game just felt very "different" in officiating, didn't it. Frankly, it was disturbing that some of these calls could be SO bad. Some were so bad, in fact, that it made you wonder. Case in point, how could a supposedly "all-star" official make such an egregious error on the so-called tipped pass? He had a great angle in which to see it, and yet he made a call that clearly wasn't there - and it wasn't even close to being there! There are mistakes…...and then there are mistakes that actually make one question "what the hell's going on here?".

Today, thank goodness for "under review" in upholding some sense of officiating integrity!

[BYZEN]

I know sometimes there are mistakes, and bad calls, and whatever else. But today's game just felt very "different" in officiating, didn't it. Frankly, it was disturbing that some of these calls could be SO bad. Some were so bad, in fact, that it made you wonder. Case in point, how could a supposedly "all-star" official make such an egregious error on the so-called tipped pass? He had a great angle in which to see it, and yet he made a call that clearly wasn't there - and it wasn't even close to being there! There are mistakes…...and then there are mistakes that actually make one question "what the hell's going on here?".

Today, thank goodness for "under review" in upholding some sense of officiating integrity!

Seriously, how do we go about making a formal complaint about this crew. They should NEVER work a meaningful game again. Or do we take to Twitter?:facepalm2:

[MAKBison]

Ok just got done re watching the game. And the officiating was not as bad I originally thought all the calls in the first half were correct or at least could go either way The calls n the 4th not so good. In the second half even the espn announcer (which was really good actually) was even saying what the hell essential that he would have not called those PI.
the tip, still have no freaking clue how anyone could even think it was tipped....but it was corrected
The added time,yeah bad...but it was corrected

[CAS4127]

I'll cash in on this, but the above-two posts are spot on.

Just hope we don't get same shit in balance of our games!! Crazy Bad!

Edit: not Maks. To each there own, and we move on.

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[Christopher Moen]

If someone did that they should lose their tickets forever. Refs were bad...but thats ridiculous.

Perhaps, someone mistook one of the officials for Ed Schultz.

[NDSUstudent]

Ok just got done re watching the game. And the officiating was not as bad I originally thought all the calls in the first half were correct or at least could go either way The calls n the 4th not so good. In the second half even the espn announcer (which was really good actually) was even saying what the hell essential that he would have not called those PI.
the tip, still have no freaking clue how anyone could even think it was tipped....but it was corrected
The added time,yeah bad...but it was corrected

Delay of game was missed in the first half, on that same play I'm still not sure about what we did get flagged on was legit. But really that delay of game was just not paying attention to the play clock, a lot of mistakes the refs made were just not paying attention kind of stuff. Yeah some of it got corrected but I am not sure that makes it right in a game of this magnitude.

[MAKBison]

Perhaps, someone mistook one of the officials for Ed Schultz.

thread drift , but on the last drive the ESPN announcer says Bizon have tradition, dont think that can drive the length and score. then goes on to say on and on about it....it was great!

[Christopher Moen]

In all seriousness to how bad the officiating was today, we really need to commend the NDSU players for how well they kept their emotions in check and were able to pull-out the victory. They kept their cool a lot better than I did.

[MAKBison]

Delay of game was missed in the first half, on that same play I'm still not sure about what we did get flagged on was legit. But really that delay of game was just not paying attention to the play clock, a lot of mistakes the refs made were just not paying attention kind of stuff. Yeah some of it got corrected but I am not sure that makes it right in a game of this magnitude.

I missed the delay of game myself, I will have to re watch again.

I came out of the game thinking the Refs really blew it form the opening KO until the end. BUt after re-watching, the calls I thought they blew in the first half were actually pretty good. 2nd half the two PI on CJ were crap. And yes the added time and tip...crap, but like I said those were corrected.
BTW...The did blow the hit of out bounds on the JC run as well, but like the announcer said that was a gimme for the one they gave SDSU (cj's hit of of bounds could have went either way).

I was really focused on the Refs walking out of the game, but after rewatchig it, I realized I should be more impressed with the players and what they did! Some gutzy ball was played in that game!

[thundarsdaddy]

I couldn't stay of the webs as I can't believe some of the bad calls tonight. The centerpiece is the tipped ball call. Just think that without replay that loser could mess up that bad and stand by it with 20,000 others watching helplessly. Usually refs suck or they blow but these shopvacs managed both.
*Jacks played a hellova good game and I have both fear and respect for them...ferspect. Good luck to their seniors in the future! Glad we had the ball last.

Seldom do I ever get on the officials either, but as many have said this game was unbelievable, with that tipped ball being the centerpiece!!

AS bad as the PI calls were, being judgment calls they are hard to argue even when they are visibly bad calls as many were today.

But for the umpire to come running out saying the ball was "tipped"??

He is saying he literally SAW the ball be "tipped"!!

IN real time, many of us couldn't believe he SAW it being tipped since it didn't appear it was!

Then to see the reply show clearly the ball was NOT tipped, and could NOT have been tipped, all that makes me think is that ref, in that situation.." guessed".

Ya wanna make a home crowd mad..." guess" on a call that was clear to the entire crowd and the reply.

Ya wanna make a crowd livid?

This "guess" on the tipped ball was one of many "guesses" in the entire game.

[BisoninNWMN]

In all seriousness to how bad the officiating was today, we really need to commend the NDSU players for how well they kept their emotions in check and were able to pull-out the victory. They kept their cool a lot better than I did.



I think I lost a couple of years off of my life with all of the "stress" yesterday.....:biggrin:

[KilldeerBison]

Beating the bunnies was a tall enough order, this officiating crew made it near impossible.

[A1pigskin]

I think I lost a couple of years off of my life with all of the "stress" yesterday.....:biggrin:

Same here and several people around me. The blood pressure had to be a record high.

[BisoninNWMN]

Same here and several people around me. The blood pressure had to be a record high.


I think it is still high this morning....:biggrin:

[Farmer63]

I'm wondering if the Fargodome atmosphere and volume might have been a little much for this officiating crew to handle. We've seen it so many times with opposing teams that come in and are just taken out of their game plans and flustered by the noise. Not being used to it, they make mistakes and then just get rattled and make more. Could it be that contributed to the officials doing so badly in this game? It's like they just got consistently worse as the game got more intense. Great game to watch, and in the end I don't think either we or SDSU can say the officiating changed the winner. It's just unfortunate that the officiating was such a distraction to such a tremendous effort by both teams.

[cbline]

Same here and several people around me. The blood pressure had to be a record high.

As we left the Dome, I joked to the people around me that I'll need to up my blood pressure med's as soon as I got home.

[bandit218]

Agreed. These teams played their asses off. Another one that I didn't see on replay was the holding call when Sumner threw it into the stands. Was that a good call, it wasn't on screen for the ESPN app?

[DarrenO]

All due respect, I have a hard time with giving the refs a pass "because the calls were corrected." The crowd shouldn't have to boo at 120 db to get the refs to call a fair game. I also think it is fair to say that the refs spotted SDSU 14 points, if not 21. No disrespect to SDSU's effort and talent, but the bad reffing could have changed the winner had it not been for the talent and perseverance of the Bison players.

[VirginiaBison]

All due respect, I have a hard time with giving the refs a pass "because the calls were corrected." The crowd shouldn't have to boo at 120 db to get the refs to call a fair game. I also think it is fair to say that the refs spotted SDSU 14 points, if not 21. No disrespect to SDSU's effort and talent, but the bad reffing could have changed the winner had it not been for the talent and perseverance of the Bison players.

I agree. Refs allowed bunnies 14 easy points. The game stats bear out the Bison domination of play, but phony calls allowed SDSU to make yardage they otherwise could not make on their own. If these were competent refs, they would have been seldom seen or heard during a playoff game, instead they were a third team on the field making plays - even helping defending passes and tackling runners. Do ref get checked for drugs? The "tipped" had to be a dream. There were no typical signs of the ball being tipped... no sudden change of direction, no sudden wobbling, no defensive player jumping up and down with self congratulations. I wonder how the ref explained it to his buddies after the game.

[Tatanka]

Indy????????
Sent from somewhere on teh intarwebs

[thundarsdaddy]

OK, I am not stepping on any toes so I have to share this.
I am sitting right now at the Candlewood, where we always stay and so do the ref's for each game.I got got done with an hour long bfast with several of the player parents, who told me I missed a fun time last night about 10 minutes after my wife and I had gotten back here then went to bed. About 10pm.
The game refs were all in the commons area discussing how none of them will get a contract for a game next week, due to what they said was five bad calls against NDSU and two against SDSU.
The parents, said the number was ten against the Bison, so they discussed it, watched game film right here in the commons area, with anyone who was ion the room, and had amazing stop action film right on the laptop.
Turns out this is the same film they will get reviewed on.
And they(I am told) said they were screwed for next week!
So about 11:30 they, the refs, went to BWW!
Like a bunch college kids who just flunked a test..." Hey lets go have a few".

Seriously!

[westnodak93bison]

Who were these clowns anyway. I'm too hung over to dig through this thread. Turrible, just plain turrible.

[56BISON73]

Beating the bunnies was a tall enough order, this officiating crew made it near impossible.

I was exhausted.

[KilldeerBison]

OK, I am not stepping on any toes so I have to share this.
I am sitting right now at the Candlewood, where we always stay and so do the ref's for each game.I got got done with an hour long bfast with several of the player parents, who told me I missed a fun time last night about 10 minutes after my wife and I had gotten back here then went to bed. About 10pm.
The game refs were all in the commons area discussing how none of them will get a contract for a game next week, due to what they said was five bad calls against NDSU and two against SDSU.
The parents, said the number was ten against the Bison, so they discussed it, watched game film right here in the commons area, with anyone who was ion the room, and had amazing stop action film right on the laptop.
Turns out this is the same film they will get reviewed on.
And they(I am told) said they were screwed for next week!
So about 11:30 they, the refs, went to BWW!
Like a bunch college kids who just flunked a test..." Hey lets go have a few".

Seriously!

I too heard some of this conversation. Funny stuff. Wish I was there last night. Yep they blew it and knew that they will not be working next weekend. Glad our players could keep enough focus to play through it and get a win! Shows real determination.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

OK, I am not stepping on any toes so I have to share this.
I am sitting right now at the Candlewood, where we always stay and so do the ref's for each game.I got got done with an hour long bfast with several of the player parents, who told me I missed a fun time last night about 10 minutes after my wife and I had gotten back here then went to bed. About 10pm.
The game refs were all in the commons area discussing how none of them will get a contract for a game next week, due to what they said was five bad calls against NDSU and two against SDSU.
The parents, said the number was ten against the Bison, so they discussed it, watched game film right here in the commons area, with anyone who was ion the room, and had amazing stop action film right on the laptop.
Turns out this is the same film they will get reviewed on.
And they(I am told) said they were screwed for next week!
So about 11:30 they, the refs, went to BWW!
Like a bunch college kids who just flunked a test..." Hey lets go have a few".

Seriously!

Good to hear they admitted they screwed up, but their bad officiating could have cost us that game. Most on here are concentrating on the tipped ball call, but the worst blown call that almost cost us the game was the PI call in the SE corner of the EZ late in the fourth. That was clearly great defense. The defender (can't recall who) clearly had his head turned back towards the ball and was in such a position as to have "equal chance at the ball." Once the ball leaves the QB hands, the ball is fair game for both the defender and receiver alike. Our defender had as much right to the ball as the receiver and was in position to cleanly defend the pass, which he did perfectly. That call alone gave the bunnies 7 points with a little over 3 min. left. Without a doubt, that bad call almost cost us the game.

[scottietohottie]

I was exhausted.

From reffing, or just because your old?

[aces1180]

The call that pissed me off the most was when they picked up the flag on the punt return...seriously, there's no such thing as a phantom block in the back.

[OatmealWicket92]

I think CJ Smith would have been the one to lose his shit on the refs...after that personal foul they looked to key in on him quite a bit

[56BISON73]

From reffing, or just because your old?

All of the above.

[EC8CH]

Good to hear they admitted they screwed up, but their bad officiating could have cost us that game. Most on here are concentrating on the tipped ball call, but the worst blown call that almost cost us the game was the PI call in the SE corner of the EZ late in the fourth. That was clearly great defense. The defender (can't recall who) clearly had his head turned back towards the ball and was in such a position as to have "equal chance at the ball." Once the ball leaves the QB hands, the ball is fair game for both the defender and receiver alike. Our defender had as much right to the ball as the receiver and was in position to cleanly defend the pass, which he did perfectly. That call alone gave the bunnies 7 points with a little over 3 min. left. Without a doubt, that bad call almost cost us the game.

I second this for the worst call of the game. Playing man coverage is hard enough to do, but with refs making calls like that it is straight up impossible.

That was a spectacular play by CJ, and an absolute bonehead call by the official.

On top of that look at the game situation when that call was made. Ref deciding the outcome there instead of letting the players.

I'm sure this is what coach k was referring to in the post game when he said he wasn't changing the way the bison play pass coverage due to the pi penalties that were called.

[MAKBison]

I'm wondering if the Fargodome atmosphere and volume might have been a little much for this officiating crew to handle. We've seen it so many times with opposing teams that come in and are just taken out of their game plans and flustered by the noise. Not being used to it, they make mistakes and then just get rattled and make more. Could it be that contributed to the officials doing so badly in this game? It's like they just got consistently worse as the game got more intense. Great game to watch, and in the end I don't think either we or SDSU can say the officiating changed the winner. It's just unfortunate that the officiating was such a distraction to such a tremendous effort by both teams.

This, the game wore them down, they could not keep up and it showed in the the 4th.

[MAKBison]

this is not all true, the calls in the first half that lead to 7 of those points were correct! BUt I Agree with the rest of what you say.

[marenlee]

The call that pissed me off the most was when they picked up the flag on the punt return...seriously, there's no such thing as a phantom block in the back.

In all honesty, they did make the right call by picking up the flag. It was a block to the chest.

[MAKBison]

OK, I am not stepping on any toes so I have to share this.
I am sitting right now at the Candlewood, where we always stay and so do the ref's for each game.I got got done with an hour long bfast with several of the player parents, who told me I missed a fun time last night about 10 minutes after my wife and I had gotten back here then went to bed. About 10pm.
The game refs were all in the commons area discussing how none of them will get a contract for a game next week, due to what they said was five bad calls against NDSU and two against SDSU.
The parents, said the number was ten against the Bison, so they discussed it, watched game film right here in the commons area, with anyone who was ion the room, and had amazing stop action film right on the laptop.
Turns out this is the same film they will get reviewed on.
And they(I am told) said they were screwed for next week!
So about 11:30 they, the refs, went to BWW!
Like a bunch college kids who just flunked a test..." Hey lets go have a few".

Seriously!

Call 1 and 2 the CJ INT calls in the 4th
Call 3 The phantom tip
call 4 The clock
Not sure what the 5th call was...thinking it could have been the holding call or maybe a delay of game..someone said there was on obvious delay call. Cant find either on TV.

Blue Bunnies:
1 Hit out of bounds on JC....he was not hit out of bounds
not sure what the other call was

[HerdBot]

Worst officiated game ever. If that was a CAA all star crew, what does the shifty crew look like? Bill Fette and his 5 brothers. Serious I think they had some kind of personal stuff effecting their judgment. Or maybe the billionaire coastal Carolina coach paid them off so they could get a home game. Those guys deserve a nut shot

[MAKBison]

The call that pissed me off the most was when they picked up the flag on the punt return...seriously, there's no such thing as a phantom block in the back.

except it did not happen. I rewatched it and there was no block in the back...it was a good no call! Maybe one can say throwing the flag caused some guys to let up, but if so that is on us

[BisonNation11]

CAS, can't believe how they treated you on Bison Rewind. Awesome to hear him go off after your call though. The 2 PI calls on CJ were complete bull. The first one, he turned his head to find the ball and had inside leverage. The second one was so BS the baby sitting near me was complaining. Our defender was interfered with from making the INT getting his head pulled back. There was an OBVIOUS delay of game they missed. And it seemed most of these calls happened on 3rd downs or important situations. To say I was livid yesterday would be an understatement. Tough to beat two teams at the same time.

[Kingslayer]

Can't believe the guy on bison rewind after the game! Saying that the refs were a none issue and telling everybody off... what a dickweed.. i thought i yelled enough at the game... had to scream at the radio too ha. Can't believe how dumb and blind people can be..

[aces1180]

In all honesty, they did make the right call by picking up the flag. It was a block to the chest.

Then why throw the flag if it didn't happen?

[Hail bison]

Can't believe the guy on bison rewind after the game! Saying that the refs were a none issue and telling everybody off... what a dickweed.. i thought i yelled enough at the game... had to scream at the radio too ha. Can't believe how dumb and blind people can be..

Norm Bell is a moron. No one can tell me where they found this guy

[NDSU1980]

Screwed for next week? They should never get to ref outside of the CAA again. At least the NCAA has a protocol to try and keep the bad ones out after they screw up. Now they just need to keep the bad ones out before they have a chance to ruin a game like this.

[CAS4127]

CAS, can't believe how they treated you on Bison Rewind. Awesome to hear him go off after your call though. The 2 PI calls on CJ were complete bull. The first one, he turned his head to find the ball and had inside leverage. The second one was so BS the baby sitting near me was complaining. Our defender was interfered with from making the INT getting his head pulled back. There was an OBVIOUS delay of game they missed. And it seemed most of these calls happened on 3rd downs or important situations. To say I was livid yesterday would be an understatement. Tough to beat two teams at the same time.

And he kept asking how many games I have officiated and I kept saying none, until I got sick of it and said "none, but I played in 3 NC games." That's about when he hung up on me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingslayer]

Screwed for next week? They should never get to ref outside of the CAA again. At least the NCAA has a protocol to try and keep the bad ones out after they screw up. Now they just need to keep the bad ones out before they have a chance to ruin a game like this.

Amen to that!

[Hail bison]

And he kept asking how many games I have officiated and I kept saying none, until I got sick of it and said "none, but I played in 3 NC games." That's about when he hung up on me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I missed your call. Was it the idiot Bell challenging you?

[MAKBison]

Then why throw the flag if it didn't happen?

probably saw it from an angle that looked like a block in the back, but when it was discussed decided someone else had a better angle. Trust me, I was pissed and screaming, at the refs, durring the game.....I mean I was PISSED!!!! BUT, I went home re watched the game and that was not a block in the back...it was totally legal.

[marenlee]

probably saw it from an angle that looked like a block in the back, but when it was discussed decided someone else had a better angle. Trust me, I was pissed and screaming, at the refs, durring the game.....I mean I was PISSED!!!! BUT, I went home re watched the game and that was not a block in the back...it was totally legal.

Yeah. That was one of the couple instances where they corrected each other, which is completely fine. I think it was the fact that the defenders head was turned and how hard he was hit made it look like a block in the back from that angle.

[MAKBison]

I missed your call. Was it the idiot Bell challenging you?

it was Ryan. I kinda like Norm

[BISON Thunder]

Play clock was at zero on the snap of the same play the ref's called pass interference during SDSU's first TD drive.


Call 1 and 2 the CJ INT calls in the 4th
Call 3 The phantom tip
call 4 The clock
Not sure what the 5th call was...thinking it could have been the holding call or maybe a delay of game..someone said there was on obvious delay call. Cant find either on TV.

Blue Bunnies:
1 Hit out of bounds on JC....he was not hit out of bounds
not sure what the other call was

[GFBison]

Look at the determination on the guy's face. He needs to break down and wrap up

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/07/10bd31ced33345aafb6bf85273d40b7b.jpg

[BISON Thunder]

Had to chuckle when the white cap had to ask an associate if one of the penalty's was a fifteen yard penalty or a spot foul...really?


I know sometimes there are mistakes, and bad calls, and whatever else. But today's game just felt very "different" in officiating, didn't it. Frankly, it was disturbing that some of these calls could be SO bad. Some were so bad, in fact, that it made you wonder. Case in point, how could a supposedly "all-star" official make such an egregious error on the so-called tipped pass? He had a great angle in which to see it, and yet he made a call that clearly wasn't there - and it wasn't even close to being there! There are mistakes…...and then there are mistakes that actually make one question "what the hell's going on here?".

Today, thank goodness for "under review" in upholding some sense of officiating integrity!

[MAKBison]

Play clock was at zero on the snap of the same play the ref's called pass interference during SDSU's first TD drive.

Thanks
what was the other blown call on the jacks any one know? Not saying it did not happen just not sure where it was.

[MAKBison]

Had to chuckle when the white cap had to ask an associate if one of the penalty's was a fifteen yard penalty or a spot foul...really?

Yeah, happen write in front of us, we were going insane on that one as well as the added time. Thought I might blow a gasket

[Elvis was a Bison]

While I did not start this tread with the intent of it becoming an evaluation of the job they did, I stand by my original thought that the NCAA would be wise to rethink some of their assignment policies. Why can't they assign a conference crew in a playoff game that features opponents from the same conference?

I know it just isn't done that way, so if that's your answer, save the time you will spend posting it.

The outcome of this game was in the balance, and the inability of this crew to recognize what these players do week in and week out in the conference could have done a great deal of damage to the credibility of the entire playoff system. They came from the CAA, where finesse is the name of game vs the MVFC, where power is the game.

The whole selection process needs to be re-evaluated, because if these guys were "all-stars", I'm the Emperor of the North Pole.

[rosh]

probably saw it from an angle that looked like a block in the back, but when it was discussed decided someone else had a better angle. Trust me, I was pissed and screaming, at the refs, durring the game.....I mean I was PISSED!!!! BUT, I went home re watched the game and that was not a block in the back...it was totally legal.

i thought the flag was for a different block in the back, not the hard hit. it was about 20 yards to the northwest.

[MAKBison]

i thought the flag was for a different block in the back, not the hard hit. it was about 20 yards to the northwest.

I did not see any blocks in the back. I will re watch it this afternoon and take another look.

[gumby013]

Look at the determination on the guy's face. He needs to break down and wrap up

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/07/10bd31ced33345aafb6bf85273d40b7b.jpg

Using your tongue as a mouth guard is not a good move.

[bisonpride4ever]

Look at the determination on the guy's face. He needs to break down and wrap up

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/07/10bd31ced33345aafb6bf85273d40b7b.jpg

You go high on Crock like that he's just gonna run you over.


Sent using both a Speak-n-Spell and an Etch-a-Sketch

[Wally]

Listened to the radio broadcast on the way home this morning. You could feel and hear the exasperation from all 3 guys regarding all the penalties and officials. Phil was blowing a gasket about the time being added and was awesome to listen to, especially after the fact.

[HerdBot]

And he kept asking how many games I have officiated and I kept saying none, until I got sick of it and said "none, but I played in 3 NC games." That's about when he hung up on me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I heard the call. Didn't realize it was you. Gellnar was being a douche

[A1pigskin]

Listened to the radio broadcast on the way home this morning. You could feel and hear the exasperation from all 3 guys regarding all the penalties and officials. Phil was blowing a gasket about the time being added and was awesome to listen to, especially after the fact.

As was half the dome fans. After the kickoff the play clock was 48 seconds. I was watching the clock closely because I remember Steve Walker adding a pass to Heckendorf over the course of a few plays against Sam Houston. I was fearing a flashback.

[StL Bison Fan]

Agree. Section 8 or 9. Couldn't tell which. Could absolutely have been flagged. Unacceptable.

In front of us. Didn't get flagged by refs but got 'flagged' by all of us. Acts up again, we'll remove him ourselves.
Don't think he's a BVer

[Wally]

As was half the dome fans. After the kickoff the play clock was 48 seconds. I was watching the clock closely because I remember Steve Walker adding a pass to Heckendorf over the course of a few plays against Sam Houston. I was fearing a flashback.


Agreed. We were wondering what the *bleep* is going on here.

[A1pigskin]

And he kept asking how many games I have officiated and I kept saying none, until I got sick of it and said "none, but I played in 3 NC games." That's about when he hung up on me.


So that was you that called in. I was taken aback from what Norm was coming back with.

[BISONFAN4LIFE]

except it did not happen. I rewatched it and there was no block in the back...it was a good no call! Maybe one can say throwing the flag caused some guys to let up, but if so that is on us

From the north end zone I thought they were calling the blatant hold right next to the hit.

[BISONFAN4LIFE]

Can't believe the guy on bison rewind after the game! Saying that the refs were a none issue and telling everybody off... what a dickweed.. i thought i yelled enough at the game... had to scream at the radio too ha. Can't believe how dumb and blind people can be..

Both Gellner and Bell made asses out of themselves on Rewind. I too was yelling at the radio. When he cut short the former player calling in I had to turn off, a first for me.

[A1pigskin]

In front of us. Didn't get flagged by refs but got 'flagged' by all of us. Acts up again, we'll remove him ourselves.
Don't think he's a BVer

Are you talking about the bottle? If so, I was really pissed because that last thing the players need is a penalty from the fans.

[StL Bison Fan]

Are you talking about the bottle? If so, I was really pissed because that last thing the players need is a penalty from the fans.

Yes. That really pissed me off. What an ass.


Didn't even hit the ref. what a looser.

[Bison03]

Loved seeing when coach K was walking down the sideline for like 60 yards screaming at the ref the whole time. It was great. The crowd was loving it too.

[CAS4127]

Loved seeing when coach K was walking down the sideline for like 60 yards screaming at the red th whole time. It was great. The crowd was loving it too.

Yep, but according to Gellner, the officials called a good game. Idiot!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bison Loaf]

Look at the determination on the guy's face. He needs to break down and wrap up

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/07/10bd31ced33345aafb6bf85273d40b7b.jpg

That's the same ref that called the phantom tipped pass later. In what may have been a cruel twist of fate, MAYBE the ref has an excuse in that Johnny scrambled his brains a little bit!

Naw.

[stevdock]

Look at the determination on the guy's face. He needs to break down and wrap up

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/07/10bd31ced33345aafb6bf85273d40b7b.jpg

My wife leaned over to me after this play and said these refs have got to learn to get out of the way. Remember the ref kinda broke up a Jacks pass on the previous drive. Doesn't happen often when the refs get in the way, but this should have been a sign of things to come. Just didn't know how much worse it would get.

[stevdock]

OK, I am not stepping on any toes so I have to share this.
I am sitting right now at the Candlewood, where we always stay and so do the ref's for each game.I got got done with an hour long bfast with several of the player parents, who told me I missed a fun time last night about 10 minutes after my wife and I had gotten back here then went to bed. About 10pm.
The game refs were all in the commons area discussing how none of them will get a contract for a game next week, due to what they said was five bad calls against NDSU and two against SDSU.
The parents, said the number was ten against the Bison, so they discussed it, watched game film right here in the commons area, with anyone who was ion the room, and had amazing stop action film right on the laptop.
Turns out this is the same film they will get reviewed on.
And they(I am told) said they were screwed for next week!
So about 11:30 they, the refs, went to BWW!
Like a bunch college kids who just flunked a test..." Hey lets go have a few".

Seriously!

Somebody please send this to Gellnar. I realize he refs both football and basketball games. I've never seen him ref a football game, but whenever he refs a basketball game I mentally start to prepare myself for a terribly officiated game. Do I agree that teams sometimes have to overcome the officials too?? Absolutely, but yesterday was beyond ridiculous on some of those calls and almost impossible to overcome. And CAS the way he treated you and the rant he went on afterwards should almost get him suspended.

[Bison Loaf]

Yep, but according to Gellner, the officials called a good game. Idiot!

Gellner really blew it on this one, in this sense. He very much intimated that "if you are not an official, you have no right to question, or analyze, an official's performance". If we were to apply that same logic to him, however, why is Gellner "analyzing" the play of the Bison games in the FCS. As far as I know, he is not a former FCS (or higher) football player. He (and Norm for that matter, although Norm IS a former FBS player) need to be very careful about getting on their high horses and calling out Bison fans.

Just answer the damn phone and let people have their say.

[bisonpride4ever]

I turned to the Rewind show and then promptly shut it off when I heard Bell getting all excited about what the police blotter would've been like if the Bison had lost.


Sent using both a Speak-n-Spell and an Etch-a-Sketch

[BISONFAN4LIFE]

it was Ryan. I kinda like Norm

Sorry but Bell brings nothing to program. Worst post game show in history.

[tjamz]

I'm wondering if the Fargodome atmosphere and volume might have been a little much for this officiating crew to handle. We've seen it so many times with opposing teams that come in and are just taken out of their game plans and flustered by the noise. Not being used to it, they make mistakes and then just get rattled and make more. Could it be that contributed to the officials doing so badly in this game? It's like they just got consistently worse as the game got more intense. Great game to watch, and in the end I don't think either we or SDSU can say the officiating changed the winner. It's just unfortunate that the officiating was such a distraction to such a tremendous effort by both teams.

Agreed 100%. I don't think any of us are saying "Man, if the officials weren't crap this game wouldn't have been close", but rather that BOTH NDSU and SDSU and the FCS deserved better than this in this type of game at this point in the season.

[Kingslayer]

Anybody know where a guy can listen to a replay of the game? Would love to listen to Phil go nuts on the officials

[MAKBison]

Agreed 100%. I don't think any of us are saying "Man, if the officials weren't crap this game wouldn't have been close", but rather that BOTH NDSU and SDSU and the FCS deserved better than this in this type of game at this point in the season.

I truly believe this game was just too big for them. They could not keep up, then the crowed got on them and it went downhill from there. Now, keep in mind they were the best refs from their conference.

SO, if this is true, in that the Refs could not keep up with the athletes.....I think it is! What does that say about the FCS? Is there so much separation that even the Refs are affected?

[Gothmog]

One of the worst calls by an umpire ever. You have to be completely incompetent to make that call (I originally wrote blind but that would be an insult to those with that disadvantage).

I really think this was the single worst call I've ever seen at any level. The SDSU player could not have come close to touching that ball with a tennis racket. Thank God for replay reviews.

[NDSUBowler]

Somebody please send this to Gellnar. I realize he refs both football and basketball games. I've never seen him ref a football game, but whenever he refs a basketball game I mentally start to prepare myself for a terribly officiated game. Do I agree that teams sometimes have to overcome the officials too?? Absolutely, but yesterday was beyond ridiculous on some of those calls and almost impossible to overcome. And CAS the way he treated you and the rant he went on afterwards should almost get him suspended.
I tweeted at him linking to thread. Whatever...I don't mind.

[BYZEN]

i thought the flag was for a different block in the back, not the hard hit. it was about 20 yards to the northwest.

This is also what I thought I saw just before the big hit.

[MAKBison]

This is also what I thought I saw just before the big hit.

let you know after I re watch it....Ill take another look

[bisonrn]

This may have been the poorest officiating in recent history. The reaction by several "bison" fans in my section was obnoxious with the level of profanity. Is f..k needed with every other word, not just an isolated but a constant barrage!! I stopped counting after the 1st 100 times, I was embarrassed, I was angry at the poor calls, I was angrier at the ignorance of some fans. The 7 or 8 year old children in the row in front of these profane idiots will have great memories on how adults react. Yell, boo, ... fine leave the f..k profanity at home for 'your' family.

[BadlandsBison]

I can't handle rewatching this game. The officiating was emotionally draining. It's impressive how the team endured isn't it?

[MAKBison]

This may have been the poorest officiating in recent history. The reaction by several "bison" fans in my section was obnoxious with the level of profanity. Is f..k needed with every other word, not just an isolated but a constant barrage!! I stopped counting after the 1st 100 times, I was embarrassed, I was angry at the poor calls, I was angrier at the ignorance of some fans. The 7 or 8 year old children in the row in front of these profane idiots will have great memories on how adults react. Yell, boo, ... fine leave the f..k profanity at home for 'your' family.

100+ times???

[tjamz]

This may have been the poorest officiating in recent history. The reaction by several "bison" fans in my section was obnoxious with the level of profanity. Is f..k needed with every other word, not just an isolated but a constant barrage!! I stopped counting after the 1st 100 times, I was embarrassed, I was angry at the poor calls, I was angrier at the ignorance of some fans. The 7 or 8 year old children in the row in front of these profane idiots will have great memories on how adults react. Yell, boo, ... fine leave the f..k profanity at home for 'your' family.

I'm with you on this. Do I occasionally drop an F-bomb at inappropriate times? Yes, but I always try and keep it PG13 when there are kids around.

[bisonrn]

100+ times???

I am being conservative, 50+ male, 20 something woman and 30 something male, actually closer to 50 + times each. They f..k u each ref by position. Even having a priest who was in collar, 10 yards away didn't sway the profanity

[CivilBison96]

probably saw it from an angle that looked like a block in the back, but when it was discussed decided someone else had a better angle. Trust me, I was pissed and screaming, at the refs, durring the game.....I mean I was PISSED!!!! BUT, I went home re watched the game and that was not a block in the back...it was totally legal.

I too was pissed when they picked up the flag but will admit that I didn't see the block live, also in rewatching last night I agree they got it right. The block was almost identical to the block that was made on the offensive lineman that ended up hurt on Travis Beck's INT in the 1st Championship game. In both the person came from a back right angle and the person getting blocked never saw the block coming.

[DarrenO]

The best response was from Klieman. "There was a penalty on the play, they threw a flag, then picked it up. We are not sure why they picked it up, but they picked it up. " A) Klieman thinks it was a penalty and I trust his judgment. B) He just found the best way to say the refs were wrong without calling them out unprofessionally.

[80ALUM]

Sorry but Bell brings nothing to program. Worst post game show in history.

This. He referred to SDSU as South Dakota and GSU as Georgia State. I can't stand call-in shows that expect listeners to call in and then hang up on them when they don't agree with the callers.

[IndyBison]

I have not seen the entire game. I started watching when they announced picking up the flag on the punt return and saw most of the rest. Without the benefit of rewind and watching the original plays it's hard for me to say for sure on some of the calls. While watching it live I thought the crew struggled in a couple areas, but I didn't think they impacted the game much other than flow. But you have to call what you see so that isn't always on the crew.

The obvious bad calls were the block in the back (need to see if there was another block that was flagged), the tipped pass, and the clock resetting. The good news is each of those were addressed on the field or by replay. A lot of what an official sees is based on angles and how much of the specific action he sees. There are no-calls that happen because you see the end of a block or the result of a block, but don't know exactly what happened. The best thing to do is pass on those. You'll be right more often than you'll be wrong. If the blind side hit is the one that was flagged, my guess is the guy who flagged it saw the end of the action and made a bad assumption. He was saved by another official who saw the entire block.

The tipped pass call is a mystery. The U is not looking at the QB or the pass so that is often a peripheral vision call. The pass came out pretty high so maybe he thought the he heard the LB tip the pass causing it to go high. Again...don't think. Know.

The S is responsible for the game clock (play clock is the 40/25 second clock). I think he was the one who came in to report the clock needs to be reset. He had just talked to the SDSU coaches who may have somehow talked him into thinking the clock was wrong. The F is the one who came in to save the day, likely because he had written down the time of the previous score (54 seconds) and knew there was a short return. Six second would be a reasonable amount of time for that kind of play. More than one official should have written down the time of the score and known the clock was correct. In the end it's better to look bad and get these right than get them wrong.

Most of the other items people have commented on are judgement calls and may get graded out as IC (incorrect call) or INC (incorrect no call). More will likely be CC (correct call) or TT (too technical). I remember 2 DPI flags the announcers questioned. We are taught 6 categories of DPI - hook and turn, early contact not playing the ball, playing through the back, arm bar, arm grab, and cutting off the route. If you can't put the action in one of those six categories there is no foul. The official often reports the category to the referee, and I occasionally hear them use the category when announcing it. On one I thought the defender got into the receiver early and then turned to play the ball. The second one it does appear the defender was holding the arm down which would make it a correct call. Never ever listen to any announcer about rules knowledge or whether calls are correct.

I also want to see the PF called that extended on of the Bison drives. They announced a number, but when they showed the pile on a replay I didn't see the number they announced. I'm wondering if the foul was away from the pile with someone taking a cheap shot.

For FCS, each conference supervisor puts together their playoff crews. The NCAA then assigns crews to playoff games. What I don't know is if the conferences submit their crews to the NCAA and they assign or if the conference supervisor is contacted and asked to provide a crew. Either way they are usually "all-star" crews. Each conference my be asked to provide 2 or 3 crews for consideration. The #1 crew won't necessarily have the top person at each position, but they will be top graded officials relative to their peers. If there are 2 or 3 officials from the same crew that make a playoff crew, I often see them put on the same playoff crew.

I presume FCS is similar to D2 and D3 where they assign crews only once in the first 2-3 rounds. Those crews are then observed and the best graded crews will get assigned to the semi-final and final rounds. If the FCS does that for the first 3 rounds there are 20 crews being observed and picked for the final 3 spots. If they only do this for the first two rounds you have 16 crews considered for 7 spots. You will need to have a really good game in order to get picked for those final spots. The three plays I mentioned above (block in back, tip, and clock) could be enough by themselves to keep a crew from getting picked for the final assignments. Teams involved also factor. A MVFC crew could have graded out really well, but with the possibility of a MVFC team in 5 of the last 7 games their chances of getting assigned are very minimal. This is why the crew may have commented they won't likely get another game. It's not a punishment. It's just very competitive to get another game.

While this crew may have struggled yesterday, I can assure you they are all very good officials. You don't get to the FCS level or assigned to a playoff crew if you are a marginal official. I wouldn't guess the game was too much for them coming out of the CAA. They would have worked big games with very good teams in loud environments. It's very possible some of these guys have worked AAC or ACC non-conference games.

Each game has between 160-200 plays. Let's use 180 as an average. Even if they felt they had 7-10 incorrect calls, out of 180 plays they graded out 94-97%. That's not "horrible". A good game though would only have 2 or 3 IC or INC grades and a great game would 0. If they were that good on a consistent basis they would be working in a higher conference. I consider myself a pretty good official and these guys are 2 levels above me.

[NorthernBison]

The two DPI calls on the first SDSU TD drive were right in front of me. The first seemed ticky tack and the second looked like two guys playing the ball with nearly equal position.

The replay changed my mind a bit.

The first one had the least contact but CJ did stick out his arm and momentarily kept the receiver's arm down. I guess I can see the flag.

The other one really hurt because it put the ball at the 5. I don't like that call. I'm not sure I'd say it was horrible because I'd probably want to see our receivers get a flag if the situation was reversed.

My frustration with that particular drive was partly with US. We kicked the ball out of bounds and then committed the DPI to give them the ball at midfield without making a single play.

I thought the tailback behind Zenner was moving before the snap on the 2nd TD.

I'm not sure about all the concern on the clock reset. They caught it and there actually was a reset needed because the clock ran from 48 to 44 on the false start. The white hat got it wrong right away asking for 54 but the crew did get it right.

FWIW, Gellner was wrong going off like that. Charlie was not out of line. I can't say that for some of the other idiots calling in. Seriously, if you want to discuss officials, you better be prepared to say which calls and WHY. Some dingbat called in to complain and when asked which call said "all of them". Good grief.

I gotta say most of the fans around me were not profane. I think a few need to relax. I'm serious. When one of our receivers leaps in the air, gets hit, and the ball comes loose when he hits the ground, I'm betting he didn't drop the ball on purpose. Screaming at the kid is not exactly good fan behavior. Wow.

[fitty]

The two DPI calls on the first SDSU TD drive were right in front of me. The first seemed ticky tack and the second looked like two guys playing the ball with nearly equal position.

The replay changed my mind a bit.

The first one had the least contact but CJ did stick out his arm and momentarily kept the receiver's arm down. I guess I can see the flag.

The other one really hurt because it put the ball at the 5. I don't like that call. I'm not sure I'd say it was horrible because I'd probably want to see our receivers get a flag if the situation was reversed.

My frustration with that particular drive was partly with US. We kicked the ball out of bounds and then committed the DPI to give them the ball at midfield without making a single play.

I thought the tailback behind Zenner was moving before the snap on the 2nd TD.

I'm not sure about all the concern on the clock reset. They caught it and there actually was a reset needed because the clock ran from 48 to 44 on the false start. The white hat got it wrong right away asking for 54 but the crew did get it right.

FWIW, Gellner was wrong going off like that. Charlie was not out of line. I can't say that for some of the other idiots calling in. Seriously, if you want to discuss officials, you better be prepared to say which calls and WHY. Some dingbat called in to complain and when asked which call said "all of them". Good grief.

I gotta say most of the fans around me were not profane. I think a few need to relax. I'm serious. When one of our receivers leaps in the air, gets hit, and the ball comes loose when he hits the ground, I'm betting he didn't drop the ball on purpose. Screaming at the kid is not exactly good fan behavior. Wow.

The only reason they got the time clock reset was because Klieman was in the ear on the sideline official after they reset it to 54 sec. They were ready to snap the ball until the official finally ran out on the field blowing the play dead.

[IndyBison]

Someone else mentioned the referee asked another official if the penalty was 15 yards or a spot foul. If this was on a DPI foul, he has to ask that question. Enforcement varies based on where the foul happens. If it's within 15 yards of the previous spot, it's a spot foul. If it's more than 15 yards, then it's a 15-yard penalty. He has to know which to announce, and the U has to know which to enforce.

[NorthernBison]

Someone else mentioned the referee asked another official if the penalty was 15 yards or a spot foul. If this was on a DPI foul, he has to ask that question. Enforcement varies based on where the foul happens. If it's within 15 yards of the previous spot, it's a spot foul. If it's more than 15 yards, then it's a 15-yard penalty. He has to know which to announce, and the U has to know which to enforce.
Somebody explained it this way to me:
Start at the original LOS and keep going until you get to the spot of the foul OR 15 yards OR the 2 yard line. Whichever you get to first is where to spot the ball.

[IndyBison]

Somebody explained it this way to me:
Start at the original LOS and keep going until you get to the spot of the foul OR 15 yards OR the 2 yard line. Whichever you get to first is where to spot the ball.

That is correct. Another factor is the relation to the hash mark. If you are enforcing from the previous spot that not only includes the yard line, but also the relation to the hash. If you are going to the spot or the 2, it's going to be in relation to the hash on the flag. For example, let's say the ball was snapped at the left hash but the foul happened outside the right hash, a 15-yard penalty would go back to the left hash, but the spot foul or the 2 would be on the right hash. If a crew makes a mistake on that, other officials are likely the only ones that notice. A smart coach might though if he was hoping to set up a certain play from a different hash.

[Bison 4 Life]

I turned to the Rewind show and then promptly shut it off when I heard Bell getting all excited about what the police blotter would've been like if the Bison had lost.


Sent using both a Speak-n-Spell and an Etch-a-Sketch

I'm not sure they'd get better but boy would I love to see the Bison contract back in WDAY's hands. Away form KFGO/KVLY

[FFBison]

You don't get to the FCS level or assigned to a playoff crew if you are a marginal official. I wouldn't guess the game was too much for them coming out of the CAA. They would have worked big games with very good teams in loud environments. It's very possible some of these guys have worked AAC or ACC non-conference games.

I'll agree with this...in fact, I was really impressed with a CAA crew we had a couple years ago. I believe Mullins was the referee and I thought they handled things well.

[MAKBison]

I have not seen the entire game. I started watching when they announced picking up the flag on the punt return and saw most of the rest. Without the benefit of rewind and watching the original plays it's hard for me to say for sure on some of the calls. While watching it live I thought the crew struggled in a couple areas, but I didn't think they impacted the game much other than flow. But you have to call what you see so that isn't always on the crew.

The obvious bad calls were the block in the back (need to see if there was another block that was flagged), the tipped pass, and the clock resetting. The good news is each of those were addressed on the field or by replay. A lot of what an official sees is based on angles and how much of the specific action he sees. There are no-calls that happen because you see the end of a block or the result of a block, but don't know exactly what happened. The best thing to do is pass on those. You'll be right more often than you'll be wrong. If the blind side hit is the one that was flagged, my guess is the guy who flagged it saw the end of the action and made a bad assumption. He was saved by another official who saw the entire block.

The tipped pass call is a mystery. The U is not looking at the QB or the pass so that is often a peripheral vision call. The pass came out pretty high so maybe he thought the he heard the LB tip the pass causing it to go high. Again...don't think. Know.

The S is responsible for the game clock (play clock is the 40/25 second clock). I think he was the one who came in to report the clock needs to be reset. He had just talked to the SDSU coaches who may have somehow talked him into thinking the clock was wrong. The F is the one who came in to save the day, likely because he had written down the time of the previous score (54 seconds) and knew there was a short return. Six second would be a reasonable amount of time for that kind of play. More than one official should have written down the time of the score and known the clock was correct. In the end it's better to look bad and get these right than get them wrong.

Most of the other items people have commented on are judgement calls and may get graded out as IC (incorrect call) or INC (incorrect no call). More will likely be CC (correct call) or TT (too technical). I remember 2 DPI flags the announcers questioned. We are taught 6 categories of DPI - hook and turn, early contact not playing the ball, playing through the back, arm bar, arm grab, and cutting off the route. If you can't put the action in one of those six categories there is no foul. The official often reports the category to the referee, and I occasionally hear them use the category when announcing it. On one I thought the defender got into the receiver early and then turned to play the ball. The second one it does appear the defender was holding the arm down which would make it a correct call. Never ever listen to any announcer about rules knowledge or whether calls are correct.

I also want to see the PF called that extended on of the Bison drives. They announced a number, but when they showed the pile on a replay I didn't see the number they announced. I'm wondering if the foul was away from the pile with someone taking a cheap shot.

For FCS, each conference supervisor puts together their playoff crews. The NCAA then assigns crews to playoff games. What I don't know is if the conferences submit their crews to the NCAA and they assign or if the conference supervisor is contacted and asked to provide a crew. Either way they are usually "all-star" crews. Each conference my be asked to provide 2 or 3 crews for consideration. The #1 crew won't necessarily have the top person at each position, but they will be top graded officials relative to their peers. If there are 2 or 3 officials from the same crew that make a playoff crew, I often see them put on the same playoff crew.

I presume FCS is similar to D2 and D3 where they assign crews only once in the first 2-3 rounds. Those crews are then observed and the best graded crews will get assigned to the semi-final and final rounds. If the FCS does that for the first 3 rounds there are 20 crews being observed and picked for the final 3 spots. If they only do this for the first two rounds you have 16 crews considered for 7 spots. You will need to have a really good game in order to get picked for those final spots. The three plays I mentioned above (block in back, tip, and clock) could be enough by themselves to keep a crew from getting picked for the final assignments. Teams involved also factor. A MVFC crew could have graded out really well, but with the possibility of a MVFC team in 5 of the last 7 games their chances of getting assigned are very minimal. This is why the crew may have commented they won't likely get another game. It's not a punishment. It's just very competitive to get another game.

While this crew may have struggled yesterday, I can assure you they are all very good officials. You don't get to the FCS level or assigned to a playoff crew if you are a marginal official. I wouldn't guess the game was too much for them coming out of the CAA. They would have worked big games with very good teams in loud environments. It's very possible some of these guys have worked AAC or ACC non-conference games.

Each game has between 160-200 plays. Let's use 180 as an average. Even if they felt they had 7-10 incorrect calls, out of 180 plays they graded out 94-97%. That's not "horrible". A good game though would only have 2 or 3 IC or INC grades and a great game would 0. If they were that good on a consistent basis they would be working in a higher conference. I consider myself a pretty good official and these guys are 2 levels above me.



if you look at my posts I say lot of the same things (obviously not as technical). Like I said, when I re-watched the game, i could see why a few of those plays were called like there were. I have found to be true more often the case than not is what are often recognized as bad calls while at the game are not once I see it on TV in slow motion and using rewind.

BTW, I have no issue with the tipped pass and clock as they were corrected. o

Here is where I do disagree with you. I do think the size of the game and the crowed got to this crew. It just seemed that at the end they were making calls based on assumption as a result of being too cautious. With that I have never been a football Ref

[A1pigskin]

The only reason they got the time clock reset was because Klieman was in the ear on the sideline official after they reset it to 54 sec. They were ready to snap the ball until the official finally ran out on the field blowing the play dead.

This is what I saw too. The crowd, including me were screaming 48 secs.

[IBleedYellow]

The only play I am very mad about was the delay of game not being called. That was horrible.

I also believe the officials lost control of the game and we're never I'm control once the third quarter started.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator

[WFBisonFan]

Exactly! That non delay of game call was absurd.


The only play I am very mad about was the delay of game not being called. That was horrible.

I also believe the officials lost control of the game and we're never I'm control once the third quarter started.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

I re-watched the game as well and can honestly say that the refs weren't terrible all of the time, it's just when they screwed up they were big time screw ups and could have cost us the game. After, re-watching the game, I still maintain that the two PI penalties on CJ were complete BS. The ESPN announcers said so as well. On both plays CJ was in perfect position. The first one on the sideline there was incidental contact made by both players and the ball wasn't even catchable. In the EZ, CJ got his head turned around and made a nice play on the ball. CJ had just as much right to make a play on the ball as the receiver and he did it without premature contact. Those two plays were crucial to keep that drive alive and resulted in a Jackrabbit touchdown. Without those two bogus penalties, I'm very confident the SDSU drive would have stalled out and they wouldn't have scored.

[stevdock]

That is correct. Another factor is the relation to the hash mark. If you are enforcing from the previous spot that not only includes the yard line, but also the relation to the hash. If you are going to the spot or the 2, it's going to be in relation to the hash on the flag. For example, let's say the ball was snapped at the left hash but the foul happened outside the right hash, a 15-yard penalty would go back to the left hash, but the spot foul or the 2 would be on the right hash. If a crew makes a mistake on that, other officials are likely the only ones that notice. A smart coach might though if he was hoping to set up a certain play from a different hash.

Why wasn't that a half the distance type penalty?? And what type of penalties are not half the distance??

[Bison bison]

I rewatched the game and am 10x more pissed than I was yesterday.

The refs affected the enjoyment of the game and almost the outcome.

I don't know how many people can suck at their job as that team, especially the umpire.

[NorthernBison]

Why wasn't that a half the distance type penalty?? And what type of penalties are not half the distance??

DPI is only half the distance if the original LOS is the 2 yard line or closer. Otherwise, it's spot of foul or 15 yards. Whichever is less.

[DarrenO]

I saw multiple plays in the Vikings-Jets game today that had much more physical contact (directly in front of the ref) than anything called against CJ and the ref never even made a motion for his flag. Those were weak DPI calls even if they can be justified.

[MAKBison]

I saw multiple plays in the Vikings-Jets game today that had much more physical contact (directly in front of the ref) than anything called against CJ and the ref never even made a motion for his flag. Those were weak DPI calls even if they can be justified.

If you try hard enough you can just almost anything.

[BYZEN]

I rewatched the game and am 10x more pissed than I was yesterday.

The refs affected the enjoyment of the game and almost the outcome.

I don't know how many people can suck at their job as that team, especially the umpire.

Weathermen (sorry, meteorologists :facepalm: ) only have to give there best guess. Maybe we found the Umpires true calling???? :ranting:


And Sorry Indy and anyone else that is trying to defend him for the tipped pass call, there was no miss direction, no wobble no celebrating by the DE and he sure as heck didn't hear the ball swatted. He must have just been guessing because he saw a big guy jump at a pass but I guess we will never know for sure. What if there had not been a good camera angle and the play couldn't have been overturned? How often was the Umpire out of position, or had to be told to move by the LB's? I think he got a bit rattled, maybe after he tackled JC?

[NorthernBison]

If you try hard enough you can just almost anything.

True. Just don't ever compare college football and the NFL. Good grief.

Watching too much NFL Football ruins your ability to understand the college game.

[MAKBison]

True. Just don't ever compare college football and the NFL. Good grief.

Watching too much NFL Football ruins your ability to understand the college game.

I make no observations about the NFL and FCS Just saying I have been an administrator type long enough to know that I can pretty much use rules to justify anything I want if I try hard enough

[CAS4127]

The officiating was terrible--no need to even look back at game/replays. If you see and feel it first hand, it's there. My guess is that, had we lost, those defending the calls would be singing different tone!

It was effing terrible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BadlandsBison]

I rewatched the game and am 10x more pissed than I was yesterday.

The refs affected the enjoyment of the game and almost the outcome.

I don't know how many people can suck at their job as that team, especially the umpire.
Yuck, how could you even rewatch? Painful to see, that's for sure

[IndyBison]

After, re-watching the game, I still maintain that the two PI penalties on CJ were complete BS. The ESPN announcers said so as well. On both plays CJ was in perfect position. The first one on the sideline there was incidental contact made by both players and the ball wasn't even catchable. In the EZ, CJ got his head turned around and made a nice play on the ball. CJ had just as much right to make a play on the ball as the receiver and he did it without premature contact.
I have only re-watched the first half so I haven't seen these plays again yet. First, the threshold for uncatchable is VERY high. They are only supposed to use it in very rare instances. For the most part forget that is a consideration.


And Sorry Indy and anyone else that is trying to defend him for the tipped pass call, there was no miss direction, no wobble no celebrating by the DE and he sure as heck didn't hear the ball swatted. He must have just been guessing because he saw a big guy jump at a pass but I guess we will never know for sure. What if there had not been a good camera angle and the play couldn't have been overturned? How often was the Umpire out of position, or had to be told to move by the LB's? I think he got a bit rattled, maybe after he tackled JC?
I am in no way defending that call. There is no defense for it. It was a complete miss. He was fooled somehow and made an incorrect call. It happens. It's the only call I've seen or heard where there were issues with the umpire. He did get in the middle of two other plays but that happens. On the run we are taught to stay put because if we guess which way the runner is going to go we only have a 50/50 shot of getting it right. The runner is going to go one way or the other because he doesn't want to run into the umpire. It's very rare for the runner to go directly into the umpire. It's never happened to me. Receivers run into umpires on crossing routes all the time. It probably happens to me 5 or 6 times per year. Maybe one of those the pass is thrown to the receiver about the same time. I've taken a pass off the top of my head once (the pass was still caught) and I knocked down a pass thrown directly into my gut once. It's the nature of the beast.

[thundarsdaddy]

CAS, can't believe how they treated you on Bison Rewind. Awesome to hear him go off after your call though. The 2 PI calls on CJ were complete bull. The first one, he turned his head to find the ball and had inside leverage. The second one was so BS the baby sitting near me was complaining. Our defender was interfered with from making the INT getting his head pulled back. There was an OBVIOUS delay of game they missed. And it seemed most of these calls happened on 3rd downs or important situations. To say I was livid yesterday would be an understatement. Tough to beat two teams at the same time.

We saw that also...clock ran down to zero...at least two seconds later the bunnies snap the football..get a long pass play...we all expected it to go back, such an obvious delay-of-game...then Nothing...no call...Nothing.
I also heard CAS get talked down to, in Bison Rewind...Ryan Gellnar has to realize, that its NOT sour grapes when we win the game...its simply pointing out how bad this officiating really was.

[DarrenO]

The point in comparison with the NFL game has nothing to do with making the 2 equal. It is simply a parallel in football that has to do with discretion. When it is 3rd down and some minor touching between a receiver and defender, it is fairly simple to say it shouldn't be called unless the defender never looked back. In both cases, CJ was going for the ball. A weak call at any any level. Save your good grief for when it is needed.

[CAS4127]

We saw that also...clock ran down to zero...at least two seconds later the bunnies snap the football..get a long pass play...we all expected it to go back, such an obvious delay-of-game...then Nothing...no call...Nothing.
I also heard CAS get talked down to, in Bison Rewind...Ryan Gellnar has to realize, that its NOT sour grapes when we win the game...its simply pointing out how bad this officiating really was.

I do not feel he talked down to me. He never gave a chance after I told him I played in 3 Natty's. He hung up on me like a pussy cuz he knew that I knew what I was talking about. I mean, our staff is after them, Phil is beside himself and fans boo them as they walked out after first half?! Ya, we were all wrong and Gellner just knows better!! Lmao at how pathetic him and other douche were. They are pussies who don't want to get involved, period.


Grow a pair, Gellner, cuz I know you are reading this thanks to Bowler!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CAS4127]

I have only re-watched the first half so I haven't seen these plays again yet. First, the threshold for uncatchable is VERY high. They are only supposed to use it in very rare instances. For the most part forget that is a consideration.


I am in no way defending that call. There is no defense for it. It was a complete miss. He was fooled somehow and made an incorrect call. It happens. It's the only call I've seen or heard where there were issues with the umpire. He did get in the middle of two other plays but that happens. On the run we are taught to stay put because if we guess which way the runner is going to go we only have a 50/50 shot of getting it right. The runner is going to go one way or the other because he doesn't want to run into the umpire. It's very rare for the runner to go directly into the umpire. It's never happened to me. Receivers run into umpires on crossing routes all the time. It probably happens to me 5 or 6 times per year. Maybe one of those the pass is thrown to the receiver about the same time. I've taken a pass off the top of my head once (the pass was still caught) and I knocked down a pass thrown directly into my gut once. It's the nature of the beast.

He wasn't fooled, Indy, he was out to job NDSU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IndyBison]

The point in comparison with the NFL game has nothing to do with making the 2 equal. It is simply a parallel in football that has to do with discretion. When it is 3rd down and some minor touching between a receiver and defender, it is fairly simple to say it shouldn't be called unless the defender never looked back. In both cases, CJ was going for the ball. A weak call at any any level. Save your good grief for when it is needed.

It's not necessarily about the amount of contact. It's about the type of contact. An arm bar or arm grab are minor, but they give the defender a huge advantage. Both prevent a receiver from raising his arms to catch a pass. The same type of grab of the jersey is likely not a foul if it doesn't take a step away from the receiver. There is much more to pass interference than just reading the rule and watching as a fan. Two things that look very similar to you can actually be very different to the trained eye. It's still not an easy call then.

[CAS4127]

Umps/refs need to stay out of the way unless blatant things happen. KE got raped most of day, but of course they didn't see that!

Indy, they were biased against us and that bias prompted their calls. It happens--and you know that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IndyBison]

He wasn't fooled, Indy, he was out to job NDSU.

That's crazy talk my friend!

He just made one mistake in a game where he had to make about 500 decisions (multiple things happen every play). I'll take that percentage any day. I'm sure he was more disgusted than you were when he saw how bad he missed it. But like a player who makes a mistake he learns from it and moves on to work another day.

BTW...one difference between a venting coach and a coach that draws a flag? The coach who disagrees with a call or felt the judgment was wrong can vent. The coach who questions your integrity and accuses you of making incorrect calls intentionally will earn a flag. You can call me bad, but don't call me a cheater.

[DarrenO]

I'm with CAS. You can talk down to us all day, but it was blatantly bad reffing. I may not have your so-called trained eyes, but holy balls I'm not blind either.

[NorthernBison]

The point in comparison with the NFL game has nothing to do with making the 2 equal. It is simply a parallel in football that has to do with discretion. When it is 3rd down and some minor touching between a receiver and defender, it is fairly simple to say it shouldn't be called unless the defender never looked back. In both cases, CJ was going for the ball. A weak call at any any level. Save your good grief for when it is needed.

Save your analysis for games that have the same rules. The NFL and college are almost opposite concerning contact before the ball is thrown and while trying to catch the ball.

I think I said I didn't agree with the second call. I see what drew the flag on the first one and I don't know if a Valley red would have thrown it or not. Either way it has NOTHING to do with whether an NFL ref would call it. Who gives a shit what contact they allow or don't allow on Sunday's?

Btw, our corners need to start learning quicker that not all refs will allow them to put their hands on receivers. I'm a little concerned about how much speed they possess because I've seen a LOT of head down racing to catch up to receivers this season.

I'm not all that worried about anybody running the ball against us. I do worry about multiple receiving threats.

[DarrenO]

Better tell Klieman that. He doesn't see any reason to change how we play defense. He might know a bit more than you.

[scottietohottie]

I'm worried that this next coach will be able to offer the refs a way bigger bribe then Stig could I'm expecting the Bison offense to only get 3 downs a possession if not just 2 and wouldn't be a bit surprised if costal gets 6 to 7 tries to get a first down. Bison should still win by 14.

[NDSUstudent]

The refs weren't biased, they were just bad. I guess we all have our bad days and that goes for refs as well. Doubt they will work another playoff game after that debacle.

[KilldeerBison]

Haven't seen why Stig and his crew were consistently allowed on the sidelines and even on the field as play started. To say these guys only made one bad call per game ignores all the neglected call they didn't make. And, yes I saw Stig on the field when play started, he was barking at the side judge. Addressing the arm bars, yes I saw plenty of those being used by the SDSU receivers to create seperation, arm bar followed by a push, right as the ball arrives. This was a terribly officiated game. Kudos to the Bison players for finding the fortitude to keep trying, in spite of the horrible calls.

[DarrenO]

Killdeer, do you have the trained eye to make that statement? ;) p.s. you're spot on.

[CAS4127]

Haven't seen why Stig and his crew were consistently allowed on the sidelines and even on the field as play started. To say these guys only made one bad call per game ignores all the neglected call they didn't make. And, yes I saw Stig on the field when play started, he was barking at the side judge. Addressing the arm bars, yes I saw plenty of those being used by the SDSU receivers to create seperation, arm bar followed by a push, right as the ball arrives. This was a terribly officiated game. Kudos to the Bison players for finding the fortitude to keep trying, in spite of the horrible calls.

Truth and fact right there!!


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[thundarsdaddy]

Killdeer, do you have the trained eye to make that statement? ;) p.s. you're spot on.


5144

hmmmmmmmm?

[KilldeerBison]

Killdeer, do you have the trained eye to make that statement? ;) p.s. you're spot on.
I got enough of a trained eye to place my boot in the arse of those officials, don't know that Gelner guy, it sounds like he could be another candidate too.

[DarrenO]

LoL. Once again, spot on!

[IndyBison]

Haven't seen why Stig and his crew were consistently allowed on the sidelines and even on the field as play started. To say these guys only made one bad call per game ignores all the neglected call they didn't make. And, yes I saw Stig on the field when play started, he was barking at the side judge. Addressing the arm bars, yes I saw plenty of those being used by the SDSU receivers to create seperation, arm bar followed by a push, right as the ball arrives. This was a terribly officiated game. Kudos to the Bison players for finding the fortitude to keep trying, in spite of the horrible calls.

An arm bar is an act by a defender to put his arm across the arms of a receiver to keep him from raising his arms. It's not like a stiff arm to maintain separation.

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[Rockbear99]

Officials stick up for other officials no matter what. That is OK, they are in that brotherhood and if I were still one I would defend them also, but wrong in wrong and that was one fucked up crew. The DPI is a judgement call will it is my Judgement call that they should never come to Fargo again.

[perthbison]

He wasn't fooled, Indy, he was out to job NDSU.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm old enough now that I usually give the refs the benefit of the doubt and assume they may be one sided by coincidence. They're just not real good at their jobs, so to speak. But when they imagined a tipped pass to nullify an obvious PI that would benefit the Bizon greatly, It was looking like there was a pattern to their incompetence.

[VirginiaBison]

I'm old enough now that I usually give the refs the benefit of the doubt and assume they may be one sided by coincidence. They're just not real good at their jobs, so to speak. But when they imagined a tipped pass to nullify an obvious PI that would benefit the Bizon greatly, It was looking like there was a pattern to their incompetence.

The "tipped" pass and clock issue served as confirming evidence in the minds of many Bison fans that this crew was intentional in the potentially biased calls/non-call pattern throughout the game. If these two blatant incorrect calls had not happened, I doubt the crew would have taken as much heat as has happened.

The only mitigating evidence they were actually incompetent clowns, was getting physically in the way of action on the field.

[Mayville Bison]

Then why throw the flag if it didn't happen?

This is the problem I have with it. You can pick up a flag on almost any play, but you should never pick one up on special teams. Either you saw it or you didn't and 99% of the time on special teams, you saw correctly. After watching the replay, he did get the block on the front of the shoulder, but only because the Bison player turned at that exact moment. Watching it live, the official behind the punt returner pointed at the play and the official from the corner threw the flag. The guy who pointed must have been the one to overrule the call, but he had a worse angle then the guy who threw the flag.

As for some other calls missed, most have said them already, but here are the other four I think were terrible
-A delay of game should have been called on the play where there was a defensive holding called (pass thrown into the stands).
-The late hit by CJ I still think is the wrong call. The ball was still live when CJ hit him. There was absolutely no way the receiver could have landed in bounds, but he could have tossed it back to the field of play. If the play is still live, how can there be a penalty for late hit/unnecessary roughness (don't remember which it was)?
-Crockett was tackled in bounds when SDSU got called for a late hit.
-The tipped pass. Only thing I can think of was the official guessed it was tipped since it was so high. You simply cannot guess in that situation. You either saw it or you didn't, and if you didn't, you absolutely don't say you did. Replay will correct it, but still don't make an assumption you didn't see!

[Mayville Bison]

Weathermen (sorry, meteorologists :facepalm: ) only have to give there best guess. Maybe we found the Umpires true calling???? :ranting:


And Sorry Indy and anyone else that is trying to defend him for the tipped pass call, there was no miss direction, no wobble no celebrating by the DE and he sure as heck didn't hear the ball swatted. He must have just been guessing because he saw a big guy jump at a pass but I guess we will never know for sure. What if there had not been a good camera angle and the play couldn't have been overturned? How often was the Umpire out of position, or had to be told to move by the LB's? I think he got a bit rattled, maybe after he tackled JC?

That umpire was lazy. After getting in the way of an SDSU pass attempt on their first drive and then JC running him over, I watched him quite a bit. On offensive substitutions, he never went up to stand over the ball until mid-way through the 3rd quarter. There was at least one time if not a couple times he got in the way on the Zenner-wildcat formations. Not impressed

[stevdock]

That umpire was lazy. After getting in the way of an SDSU pass attempt on their first drive and then JC running him over, I watched him quite a bit. On offensive substitutions, he never went up to stand over the ball until mid-way through the 3rd quarter. There was at least one time if not a couple times he got in the way on the Zenner-wildcat formations. Not impressed

I was just told from one of our football refs that their mechanics were wrong, especially the umpires and the side judge. Judgement calls are judgement calls but he was very disappointed in their mechanics and if their mechanics were right chances are the judgement calls turn into the right call. He is a ref that is very mechanically sound so I'm assuming he was 100% correct.

[CAS4127]

I was just told from one of our football refs that their mechanics were wrong, especially the umpires and the side judge. Judgement calls are judgement calls but he was very disappointed in their mechanics and if their mechanics were right chances are the judgement calls turn into the right call. He is a ref that is very mechanically sound so I'm assuming he was 100% correct.

Not sure this is considered mechanics, but whatever ref stands in middle behind LB's had to be asked to move at least twice, if not more, by DB's pre-snap because he was in their way. Did he even have a clue where to stand?!

[Bisonville GasMan]

I was just told from one of our football refs that their mechanics were wrong, especially the umpires and the side judge. Judgement calls are judgement calls but he was very disappointed in their mechanics and if their mechanics were right chances are the judgement calls turn into the right call. He is a ref that is very mechanically sound so I'm assuming he was 100% correct.
I agree. Just dumb...
http://media.giphy.com/media/6m7ZA00vS5kWBW3hifaU/giphy.gif

[ndsubison1]

So were these guys from the CAA or Southern? I have heard both.

[Tatanka]

So were these guys from the CAA or Southern? I have heard both.


CAA. Which means they should have known better.

[missingnumber7]

Not sure this is considered mechanics, but whatever ref stands in middle behind LB's had to be asked to move at least twice, if not more, by DB's pre-snap because he was in their way. Did he even have a clue where to stand?!

It is mechanics...I'm sure there are pleny of guys in your area that would take you out on a friday night and let you throw all the flags you want.

An umpire is going to set up where he can get the best view of his keys. (i'm not an umpire i'm the HL) If the defense wants him to move usually they will just bump or ask him to move so they can have the spot they want. Because there are multiple different defenses and formations that are run the U will go where he is most comfortable every time.

[IndyBison]

It is mechanics...I'm sure there are pleny of guys in your area that would take you out on a friday night and let you throw all the flags you want.

An umpire is going to set up where he can get the best view of his keys. (i'm not an umpire i'm the HL) If the defense wants him to move usually they will just bump or ask him to move so they can have the spot they want. Because there are multiple different defenses and formations that are run the U will go where he is most comfortable every time.

Correct. As an umpire I try to stay between the guards. I try to see where a back is behind me so I don't block his view, but he may not be keying on the ball so that's not an absolute. I usually just tell them to let me know if he wants me to move before the snap. Sometimes a lb will let me know which way he is going so I can move well.

This is not unusual or an indication the umpire was out position. It's just the normal flow of the game.

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[Mr. Burgundy]

[QUOTE=IndyBison;955793]Correct. As an umpire I try to stay between the guards. I try to see where a back is behind me so I don't block his view, but he may not be keying on the ball so that's not an absolute. I usually just tell them to let me know if he wants me to move before the snap. Sometimes a lb will let me know which way he is going so I can move well.

This is not unusual or an indication the umpire was out position. It's just the normal flow of the game.

They should FORCE refs to be in much better shape. Do u agree?

[missingnumber7]

They should FORCE refs to be in much better shape. Do u agree?

FBS conferences have a conditioning test, I'm not sure about FCS, D2 or D3. But honestly if you are in shape enough to do what you need to do to properly cover your area its all good. IE...Deep officials are going to probably be in the best shape.

[Bison03]

On the Jack Michaels Show they just played the radio audio from the tipped pass and from the added time they were trying to put on the clock. Phil was in classic meltdown mode, and rightfully so. HA! Made my day.

[JSUBison]

Anybody know where the next group of officials are from for the next game?

[missingnumber7]

On the Jack Michaels Show they just played the radio audio from the tipped pass and from the added time they were trying to put on the clock. Phil was in classic meltdown mode, and rightfully so. HA! Made my day.

I have to say that I don't know if I have ever listened to a game where Scotty was as harsh on the officials as he was on Saturday.

[bisonhp330]

good god McDipshit is talking about the refs on KFGO this afternoon...everything he says he adds a disclaimer 'I wouldnt know I've never done it' or 'I didn't play _____ so i wouldn't know'. Simple solution to that ...S-T-F-U.

random rant complete. Channel changed. Carry on.

[imabison]

good god McDipshit is talking about the refs on KFGO this afternoon...everything he says he adds a disclaimer 'I wouldnt know I've never done it' or 'I didn't play _____ so i wouldn't know'. Simple solution to that ...S-T-F-U.

random rant complete. Channel changed. Carry on.

Funny yesterday some of the KFGO hosts were saying how fat and out of shape some of the official were, in fact they said Joel Heitkamp
1 week after knee surgery could probably run better then them...

On the first personal foul out of bounds, after watching it again on ESPN3 the announcers said how bad it was at first then on replay
said it was not as bad as it looked and one felt the penalty was on the Bison defender for beating his chest.

You know the calling attention to yourself penalty by definition...

I did not get all the way through the game.

[bajadanny]

Up 14-0 things going good then the refs took all momentum away changed the flow of the game completely.

Not taking nothing away from the jacks they played their asses off, hats off to them

[missingnumber7]

Funny yesterday some of the KFGO hosts were saying how fat and out of shape some of the official were, in fact they said Joel Heitkamp
1 week after knee surgery could probably run better then them...

On the first personal foul out of bounds, after watching it again on ESPN3 the announcers said how bad it was at first then on replay
said it was not as bad as it looked and one felt the penalty was on the Bison defender for beating his chest.

You know the calling attention to yourself penalty by definition...

I did not get all the way through the game.

I've seen Heitkamp move on a football field...I don't know if I would say that.

[Bison Gal]

Up 14-0 things going good then the refs took all momentum away changed the flow of the game completely.

Not taking nothing away from the jacks they played their asses off, hats off to them

I agree with this......that was the impression I had too......flow of game changed after refs started making crazy, crappy calls.

[bri-dog]

It certainly changed the flow of beer at my house...

[Bison Loaf]

That's crazy talk my friend!

He just made one mistake in a game where he had to make about 500 decisions (multiple things happen every play). I'll take that percentage any day. I'm sure he was more disgusted than you were when he saw how bad he missed it. But like a player who makes a mistake he learns from it and moves on to work another day.

BTW...one difference between a venting coach and a coach that draws a flag? The coach who disagrees with a call or felt the judgment was wrong can vent. The coach who questions your integrity and accuses you of making incorrect calls intentionally will earn a flag. You can call me bad, but don't call me a cheater.

Man, I gotta agree with CAS on this one! Here's an umpire who CLEARLY DID NOT SEE the play that he was calling (the phantom tip), and yet he calls it anyway in an obviously crucial time of the game! That's NOT just an unfortunate mistake on a judgment call, that's a complete-ass made up (as in fabricated) call, period. It gets at the very heart of officiating credibility and integrity, and I would think that referees themselves would also be very suspicious of, and call out, blatant calls like this one.

[TAILG8R]

Man, I gotta agree with CAS on this one! Here's an umpire who CLEARLY DID NOT SEE the play that he was calling (the phantom tip), and yet he calls it anyway in an obviously crucial time of the game! That's NOT just an unfortunate mistake on a judgment call, that's a complete-ass made up (as in fabricated) call, period. It gets at the very heart of officiating credibility and integrity, and I would think that referees themselves would also be very suspicious of, and call out, blatant calls like this one.

This happened right in front of us. I would like to see the tv angles to see if it played out the way it looked but it sure seemed like there was no thought of calling the tipped ball until the Jacks defender run over making the hand gesture and yelling.

[Bison Loaf]

This happened right in front of us. I would like to see the tv angles to see if it played out the way it looked but it sure seemed like there was no thought of calling the tipped ball until the Jacks defender run over making the hand gesture and yelling.

From my angle it looked like the umpire ran over immediately (and confidently!) making the tip ball call to the other official. I did not think, at the time, that he was influenced by anyone from the Jacks, but I could be wrong on that.

Either way, however, it is a very disturbing call. If he called it immediately on his own, that would imply that he actually saw it - and we know that was truly NOT the case - and he should be questioned about it very intently before being called on to ref again. If he was, like you suggest, NOT going to call it, and was then influenced by an opposing player into making a call that he clearly did not see - well then, to be blunt, his officiating days should be over immediately!

[MAKBison]

Just re-watched the punt for a long run and watched all of the players. No-one was blocked in the back. .....I said I would check and I did.


The more I watch this the more I think the tighter the game became the more the Refs broke down. Anyway, I am done with these refs. on the chinnuts

[StL Bison Fan]

Perhaps they should have skipped hanging out in the tailgate lot Saturday morning and studied the rules a little more

[BYZEN]

Perhaps they should have skipped hanging out in the tailgate lot Saturday morning and studied the rules a little more

Are we sure they didn't just come from Colorado or Washington?

[onbison09]

Funny yesterday some of the KFGO hosts were saying how fat and out of shape some of the official were, in fact they said Joel Heitkamp
1 week after knee surgery could probably run better then them...

On the first personal foul out of bounds, after watching it again on ESPN3 the announcers said how bad it was at first then on replay
said it was not as bad as it looked and one felt the penalty was on the Bison defender for beating his chest.

You know the calling attention to yourself penalty by definition...

I did not get all the way through the game.
IMO the late hit call on SDSU was even worse. Crocket was still in bounds when the hit started

[CAS4127]

IMO the late hit call on SDSU was even worse. Crocket was still in bounds when the hit started

Payback call!


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[onbison09]

Payback call!


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But those don't exist

[onbison09]

This happened right in front of us. I would like to see the tv angles to see if it played out the way it looked but it sure seemed like there was no thought of calling the tipped ball until the Jacks defender run over making the hand gesture and yelling.
Think it's a repost but.... https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10633966_10152900394468151_3145716178154693265_o.j pg

[stevdock]

Think it's a repost but.... https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10633966_10152900394468151_3145716178154693265_o.j pg


That picture is obviously after he tipped it straight up in the air, while making sure the rotation stayed perfect and it didn't lose any speed on the pass. ;)

[Da Bison]

Think it's a repost but.... https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10633966_10152900394468151_3145716178154693265_o.j pg

I think what you are missing is that the sdsu player has one really, really, really long finger. He wants to be a proctologist.......................just not mine thank you.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Think it's a repost but.... https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10633966_10152900394468151_3145716178154693265_o.j pg

Watching the replay yesterday I can't figure out how the umpire could even make that call. If you look in the picture that is where he was looking the whole time. Then he runs over and is so adamant that it was tipped. Maybe he was still recovering from the first two series of the game in which he was ran over by a rabbit and herd of Bison. I do thank him for taking out the crossing receiver of the rabbits on their first drive, it was a perfect hit to stop a catch.

[coloradobison]

according to Brian Shawn - a Big Sky crew is working our game against Coastal.

[HazenBizon]

according to Brian Shawn - a Big Sky crew is working our game against Coastal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

[acf2]

Oh boy. This should be interesting...

[StL Bison Fan]

So that means no defense?

[TransAmBison]

Okay, before anybody gets upset at the officiating on Saturday they should be aware of Big Sky rules. Here are a few:

1. Full contact is allowed at the line of scrimmage or behind it.
2. "Bumpsies are allowed up to the 10 yard line...full contact is prohibited.
3. No contact is allowed beyond the 10 yard line.

[Bison Loaf]

according to Brian Shawn - a Big Sky crew is working our game against Coastal.

Even more motivation to jump on the Chants early and never let them up. Heaven forbid this game comes down to a "judgment" call!

[BisonTeacher]

Even more motivation to jump on the Chants early and never let them up. Heaven forbid this game comes down to a "judgment" call!

Or a PI call. Heaven knows these guys arent used to seeing anything that resembles defense.

[CAS4127]

according to Brian Shawn - a Big Sky crew is working our game against Coastal.

Do we know there names?

[KilldeerBison]

according to Brian Shawn - a Big Sky crew is working our game against Coastal.

Phantom pass interference calls, I hope not! Either way, just call the game the same for both teams. PLEASE!

[StL Bison Fan]

Would the NCAA give them a brief talking to before the game?

[KilldeerBison]

Would the NCAA give them a brief talking to before the game?

NCAA Rep to Big Fluff Crew: ok boys, you each get one blown call per game. After that, you will accumulate demerits. These will be redeemed, after the game, you will receive one kick in the nuts per demerit. Are we clear?

[NorthernBison]

Phantom pass interference calls, I hope not! Either way, just call the game the same for both teams. PLEASE!
Our corners and safeties play more physical than most teams. Coach says we aren't going to change the way we play. I have no feel for how Big Sky officials call that part of the game. We'll find out on Saturday.

[SafeTeeJ]

we are doomed! Fargo Riots start 1430 hours on Saturday

[GOB1SON]

If this has been mentioned, my apologies, but is it possible that the CAA refs just weren't used to the style of play? I think why most of us were disgusted with the PI calls is that we have seen our backs make these exact same plays all season without penalty. Could it just be that the MVFC refs call a slightly different game and the CAA refs just weren't ready for the extremely physical nature of this particular football game?

With that said, I think that there were an abnormal numbers of waived off flags (at least 3 to my memory, how many games this year did we even see one flag picked up?) and the refs looked uncomfortable many times with the clock (the delay call that didn't get called, the clock snafu at the end) and ball placement which leads me to believe that there are better crews out there.

[missingnumber7]

With that said, I think that there were an abnormal numbers of waived off flags (at least 3 to my memory, how many games this year did we even see one flag picked up?) and the refs looked uncomfortable many times with the clock (the delay call that didn't get called, the clock snafu at the end) and ball placement which leads me to believe that there are better crews out there.

That is my problem with 'All-star' crews. If you break apart a crew that has built communication methods, and trust of each other you aren't going to see that as often. I don't recall my college crew picking up 1 flag in our entire season...and we threw a lot of flags.

[StL Bison Fan]

NCAA Rep to Big Fluff Crew: ok boys, you each get one blown call per game. After that, you will accumulate demerits. These will be redeemed, after the game, you will receive one kick in the nuts per demerit. Are we clear?

You forgot the part about don't let the fargo media see you yucking it up afterwards at BWW. Unless of course you don't screw up. Then buy a round.

[KilldeerBison]

You forgot the part about don't let the fargo media see you yucking it up afterwards at BWW. Unless of course you don't screw up. Then buy a round.

Or, returning from Bdubs to the Candlewood. Meeting with fans/parents until 1:30 in the morning, showing replay of the game on the lobby TV room wall (off their NCAA laptop), admitting to at least 5 blown calls against NDSU, then telling said NDSU fans: don't worry, we won't be working next weekend. They basically blew this game and knew it.

[IndyBison]

Or, returning from Bdubs to the Candlewood. Meeting with fans/parents until 1:30 in the morning, showing replay of the game on the lobby TV room wall (off their NCAA laptop), admitting to at least 5 blown calls against NDSU, then telling said NDSU fans: don't worry, we won't be working next weekend. They basically blew this game and knew it.

I guarantee you that will not go over well if the powers-that-be are aware of it.

As for regular crews vs. all-star crews there are pros and cons to both. At a level like the MVFC the crews do occasionally get mixed up during the season and also work scrimmages together in the offseason. There are only 7 crews so you are talking about only 50+ officials (including some supplemental). They all have the same supervisor and position coaches so most things should be consistent. The more experience you have the less of an issue this is. One drawback to keeping crews together is a first year official at a level could earn a playoff game just based on the crew he's been assigned while a better, more experienced official stays home. Some argue if they are good enough to work at that level they are good enough to work a playoff game.

My conference submits full crews rather than all-star crews for NAIA and NCAA playoffs. Last year that helped me as our crew got to work an NAIA national semi-final game. I was on a different crew this year and my referee missed 4 games due to injury. That kept us from playoff consideration. I would have had a much better chance at a playoff game this year with all-star crews.