Illinois State/NDSU conference title tie

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

If both teams go undefeated for the season, who gets the conference auto-bid and, more importantly, who gets the higher seed? What will be the tie breaking protocol?

[Jay]

Who gets the higher seed? You serious Clark?

[bisonaudit]

Seriously? If we win out we'll be the top seed. It does not matter what anyone else does.

[Tatanka]

If both go undefeated, NDSU would win the higher seed as the conference autobid winner. The final conference tiebreaker is GPI. NDSU's 34-14 curbstomping of Iowa State is the trump card.

[ndsubison1]

If both teams go undefeated for the season, who gets the conference auto-bid and, more importantly, who gets the higher seed? What will be the tie breaking protocol?

record against common conference opponents. if both undefeated GPI?

[Hammersmith]

http://www.valley-football.org/news/default/2011-12/6071/missouri-valley-football---tiebreaker/

Despite the comment at the top of the release, it does not appear the conference has updated the procedure since 2011. So GPI it is if both teams go undefeated.

[SamsRams]

If both go undefeated, NDSU would win the higher seed as the conference autobid winner.

You sure about that. I dont think getting an autobid guarantees you must have a higher seed.

[thebootfitter]

You sure about that. I dont think getting an autobid guarantees you must have a higher seed.
Correct. It has happened before. The conference auto bids aren't necessarily correlated with playoff seeds.

[bisonaudit]

You sure about that. I dont think getting an autobid guarantees you must have a higher seed.

The auto bid doesn't get you anything other than in the field. For purposes of this conversation it's not relevant.

[taper]

I read the link Hammer posted awhile ago, and I think the policy IS updated. The comment says it'll be updated for when teams don't play each other, and the rule does so. Conference autobid and playoff seeding are completely independent, but if we win out there's no chance we don't get #1.

[Tatanka]

You sure about that. I dont think getting an autobid guarantees you must have a higher seed.

yeah I was mistaken on that.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

So, if we both go undefeated, GPI determines auto-bid, but we would both be officially co-conference champs? Is that correct?

[Tatanka]

So, if we both go undefeated, GPI determines auto-bid, but we would both be officially co-conference champs? Is that correct?


I believe this is correct.

[taper]

So, if we both go undefeated, GPI determines auto-bid, but we would both be officially co-conference champs? Is that correct?

In 2011 NDSU and UNI were officially co-champs at 7-1, even though we beat UNI. We got the autobid too.

[BisonNeil]

In 2011 NDSU and UNI were officially co-champs at 7-1, even though we beat UNI. We got the autobid too.

But that was the key, we got to play them unlike ISUr. Head to head is the first tiebreaker.

[CyPanth]

But that was the key, we got to play them unlike ISUr. Head to head is the first tiebreaker.


We had high hopes for UNI going into the season. Now, UNI has back to back games with ISUr and NDSU. Here's hoping for the playoff mess that would come from UNI winning out.

[tony]

All bets are off if they use the SRS... don't think that it'll be an issue though.

[marenlee]

In 2011 NDSU and UNI were officially co-champs at 7-1, even though we beat UNI. We got the autobid too.

I still think that's Bull. Why did they get a share of the conference championship when we beat them? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[FFBison]

We had high hopes for UNI going into the season. Now, UNI has back to back games with ISUr and NDSU. Here's hoping for the playoff mess that would come from UNI winning out.

Regardless of their current record, UNI is still the scariest team south of Fargo. And to the north I guess too.

[Honeybooboo]

I still think that's Bull. Why did they get a share of the conference championship when we beat them? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Because we didn't take care of business and lot to YSU and they beat YSU

In only loss they had was us, only loss we had was YSU

[Tatanka]

Regardless of their current record, UNI is still the scariest team south of Fargo. And to the north I guess too.


This is correct.

[BisoninNWMN]

Regardless of their current record, UNI is still the scariest team south of Fargo. And to the north I guess too.


Maybe.

UNI's QB play has been very inconsistent this year.

[westnodak93bison]

UNI has one super star. They would be close to winless without David Johnson. Their o line is weak and QB play subpar

[BFKasper14]

Maybe.

UNI's QB play has been very inconsistent this year.

I just don't understand why David Johnson isn't getting the ball more. He may be the scariest player in the FCS.

[westnodak93bison]

I just don't understand why David Johnson isn't getting the ball more. He may be the scariest player in the FCS.
Probably because defenses can really focus on him and their o line isn't very good? At least that is what I conclude from reading panther nation.

[Honeybooboo]

I just don't understand why David Johnson isn't getting the ball more. He may be the scariest player in the FCS.

Sounds like their coaches are a incompetent group, but if I had to work with that dickhead Farley everyday I would intentionally make him look bad

[missingnumber7]

Sounds like their coaches are a incompetent group, but if I had to work with that dickhead Farley everyday I would intentionally make him look bad

Farley makes himself look bad enough.

[semobison]

Johnson had a season high 29 carries this weekend against WIU! UNI coaches must be reading fan message boards. Also, UNI has a physical, scary defense!

[tony]

I'd rank the teams remaining on the schedule, in order of "Most likely to beat NDSU" to "Least likely to beat NDSU" as:
1. UNI
2. Missouri State
3. SDSU
4. Youngstown State.

[missingnumber7]

I'd rank the teams remaining on the schedule, in order of "Most likely to beat NDSU" to "Least likely to beat NDSU" as:
1. UNI
2. Missouri State
3. SDSU
4. Youngstown State.

Each of those teams is worrisome. The last 2 have crapped on undefeated seasons before, Missery St on the road is scary considering previous results. And UNI well, they are UNI.

Its funny when we first got in the league everyone had UNI circled as the team to beat in the conference, we have officially replaced them as of 2 years ago. I think we have for 2 reasons, we put a quality product on the field, and they dislike the way our fanbase travels.

[semobison]

In our 6 seasons in MVFC play we have 16 losses, 10 of those have come against the 4 teams left on our schedule.

[Honeybooboo]

In our 6 seasons in MVFC play we have 16 losses, 10 of those have come against the 4 teams left on our schedule.

This right here, we are now getting to the hard part of the schedule, we can win everyone of them but cannot play like we did at WIU or weber

[BisonNeil]

In our 6 seasons in MVFC play we have 16 losses, 10 of those have come against the 4 teams left on our schedule.

Now there is a stat!

[BisonNation11]

In our 6 seasons in MVFC play we have 16 losses, 10 of those have come against the 4 teams left on our schedule.
And only one since 2011? And we haven't lost a conference game against a ranked opponent in that time frame I believe...

[Honeybooboo]

And only one since 2011? And we haven't lost a conference game against a ranked opponent in that time frame I believe...

Yes, but still we are just now getting to the meat of our schedule, we are somewhat healthy unlike other teams which is good

But we can't have a way off game anywhere

[taper]

And we haven't lost a conference game against a ranked opponent in that time frame I believe...

It's the losses to unranked opponents that worry me.

[BisonNation11]

My point was I believe our remaining games are against ranked or could be on the bubble of being ranked at the time. We seem to play better in meaningful games

[Strongman]

This right here, we are now getting to the hard part of the schedule, we can win everyone of them but cannot play like we did at WIU or weber

We had a natural hangover after Iowa State and we took WIU lightly. We will roll the next four weeks. We will cover the spread the next 4 weeks.

[scottietohottie]

We had a natural hangover after Iowa State and we took WIU lightly. We will roll the next four weeks. We will cover the spread the next 4 weeks.

I had a hangover once it sucked so bad that now I just start drinking when I wake up no more hangovers.

[marenlee]

Because we didn't take care of business and lot to YSU and they beat YSU

In only loss they had was us, only loss we had was YSU

I understand the rule. I just don't agree with it. A head-to-head should count as a tie-breaker just like in the auto-bid process. Why do they care about a common opponent? All that matters is how they did against each other.

[THEsocalledfan]

I think this thread is much to do about nothing. IRU-r still has to play UNI (road), Youngstown, and SIU. I just don't see them going 3-0 on those games. (not counting USD game, but that is at the Dakota Dump) If they do win out, I'm happy for them and willing to share the title. Auto-bid is irrelevant; both will be in with ndsu having a higher seed.

[NDSU1980]

In our 6 seasons in MVFC play we have 16 losses, 10 of those have come against the 4 teams left on our schedule.

But I think 8 of those 10 loses came in the disaster years of 2008 and 2009. Anyone was capable of beating us then. We are a completely different team now, although I still worry about UNI, just because it's in their house and they're probably still mad about last year.

[StL Bison Fan]

I think this thread is much to do about nothing. IRU-r still has to play UNI (road), Youngstown, and SIU. I just don't see them going 3-0 on those games. (not counting USD game, but that is at the Dakota Dump) If they do win out, I'm happy for them and willing to share the title. Auto-bid is irrelevant; both will be in with ndsu having a higher seed.

That USD game might be a trap. As we well know, just when you think you can slide, they bite you. USD has nothing to lose and were a chippy group. AGS

[bisonaudit]

Sagarin projects 37.3% chance of a split between NDSU and Ill St, 37.3% of NDSU alone and 23.6% Ill St alone.

[semobison]

But I think 8 of those 10 loses came in the disaster years of 2008 and 2009. Anyone was capable of beating us then. We are a completely different team now, although I still worry about UNI, just because it's in their house and they're probably still mad about last year.

Close, 7 of those 10 losses were in 08 and 09. In 2010 we were 4-4 in the Valley which is the same record we had in 08. 09 was the only season where we have had a losing conference record. My point in posting these stats is that we have our toughest conference games yet to play and this seasons records indicate that also. Any of our last 4 opponents are capable of beating us. Capable...yes, probable...not so much!

[geobosse]

We do our job and the rest will work itself out. The only thing the Bison can do is win all of their remaining games. Do this, we will have home field advantage and another shot at a Title!!!!

[Bisonator98]

I think ISUr loses to UNI this Saturday.

[StL Bison Fan]

I think ISUr loses to UNI this Saturday.

I think you could be correct.

[Vet70]

I think ISUr loses to UNI this Saturday.

It's better for UNI to get it out of their system this week.

[CyPanth]

It's better for UNI to get it out of their system this week.


The thought of being a spoiler is pretty much what we have right now. However, if we can beat Illinois State and you, it is pretty reasonable to think we could make a good playoff run.

[BisonNation11]

I'm hoping UNI goes into the 4th quarter with a lead, and they blow it* late in the game or just get completely blown away*. I want them demoralized when we go there. I'm selfish and want every advantage we can.



*No Izzy, not that kind

[bisonaudit]

I think ISUr loses to UNI this Saturday.

Sagarin give only a small edge to Ill St. 3 points. Implies 59%/41% chance of victory.

The little toy I used last week to take a stab at the chances of shutting USD out suggests that behind the Bison these are the next two best defenses in the conference. That's just based on conference play so take it with a huge grain of salt. It's not impressed w/ UNI's offense (8th ahead of only USD and Mo St), while Ill St sits 4th. Might be a defensive battle.

[Bisonator98]

Sagarin give only a small edge to Ill St. 3 points. Implies 59%/41% chance of victory.

The little toy I used last week to take a stab at the chances of shutting USD out suggests that behind the Bison these are the next two best defenses in the conference. That's just based on conference play so take it with a huge grain of salt. It's not impressed w/ UNI's offense (8th ahead of only USD and Mo St), while Ill St sits 4th. Might be a defensive battle.

Well I look at ISUr and see they have played lights out at home against some marginal teams and their 2 road wins were very close games and in fact they really should have lost that game to ISUb. Their schedule gets much more difficult now.

[THEsocalledfan]

they really should have lost that game to ISUb.

No kidding. If not for some incompetent gameday coaching by ISUb, they have 1 loss. For those who don't know, ISUb scored a TD to take the lead with a little under a minute remaining and less than a 3 point lead. Instead of kicking deep like every other team America and make the drive them whole field for their FG, they squib kick it and manage to hit a guy on the front line, so ISUr started in ISUb territory.....

[KC Bison]

Agreed. Saw the end of the game and wondered what the coach was thinking squibbing the kick off. They needed only a few yards to kick a field goal.

[THEsocalledfan]

Agreed. Saw the end of the game and wondered what the coach was thinking squibbing the kick off. They needed only a few yards to kick a field goal.

Honestly, one of the single worst gamday coaching decisions I have seen in years. Maybe as bad as when Denny took a knee with a beat up defense......

[Hammersmith]

Kolpack's reading BV again. (little purple)

Tiebreaker between Bison, Redbirds may determine MVFC auto bid to FCS playoffs (http://www.inforum.com/content/tiebreaker-between-bison-redbirds-may-determine-mvfc-auto-bid-fcs-playoffs)

[bisonaudit]

Kolpack's reading BV again. (little purple)

Tiebreaker between Bison, Redbirds may determine MVFC auto bid to FCS playoffs (http://www.inforum.com/content/tiebreaker-between-bison-redbirds-may-determine-mvfc-auto-bid-fcs-playoffs)

You can tell because he's writing about stuff that doesn't matter. ;)

If you're hanging banners it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter for seeding, and there is now way the conference co-champion from this MVFC doesn't make the field.

[Bison Loaf]

On one hand, I'd like to see ISUr beat UNI and knock them out of the playoffs right before they play The Bison. I do think that would take a little starch out of them at home and I'm still thinking that game is the Herd's single biggest obstacle right now.

On the other hand, UNI beating ISUr would drop the Redbirds from the ranks of the unbeaten (Coastal and Harvard would remain), thus further enhancing NDSU's chances of another outright conference title and equally important, further enhancing the chances of a Top-2 seed - even should an "unforeseen" loss happen in the final 4 games (similar to 2011 and 2012 when NDSU got home field throughout with a 1 loss season). Then, the Herd can drop UNI from the playoffs the following week. :)


Either way, a Top-2 seed is the key (says Captain Obvious). Winning out is infinitely preferable, of course, but whatever else might enhance a top-seed chance, is good too.... isn't it?

[Bisonwinagn]

On one hand, I'd like to see ISUr beat UNI and knock them out of the playoffs right before they play The Bison. I do think that would take a little starch out of them at home and I'm still thinking that game is the Herd's single biggest obstacle right now.

On the other hand, UNI beating ISUr would drop the Redbirds from the ranks of the unbeaten (Coastal and Harvard would remain), thus further enhancing NDSU's chances of another outright conference title and equally important, further enhancing the chances of a Top-2 seed - even should an "unforeseen" loss happen in the final 4 games (similar to 2011 and 2012 when NDSU got home field throughout with a 1 loss season). Then, the Herd can drop UNI from the playoffs the following week. :)


Either way, a Top-2 seed is the key (says Captain Obvious). Winning out is infinitely preferable, of course, but whatever else might enhance a top-seed chance, is good too.... isn't it?

I'm cheering for UNI of course as ISUr needs a loss or maybe two. Bison can take care of business the following week regardless.

[Mr. Burgundy]

Honestly, one of the single worst gamday coaching decisions I have seen in years. Maybe as bad as when Denny took a knee with a beat up defense......

Please explain. I'd like to hear your opinion.

[scottietohottie]

Maybe everyone else in the mvfc hates NDSU so much that they just lay down and loose to isur(d2) just so NDSU has to share the conference championship.

[THEsocalledfan]

Please explain. I'd like to hear your opinion.

You are only up 18-17. With anything more than probably 15 seconds (exact time debatable), you need to kick that baby deep to make them use time in moving the ball to get into FG range. Honestly, I wouldn't care if Dennis Hester was back there; make them actually beat you. With how little time they had and a good kick/coverage, they would most likely either run out of time, or had a very long FG to have to make.

[WYOBISONMAN]

My comment on the tie breaker......

It is fortunate that the name of the coach does not factor into the decision. Brock Spack is clearly the best name for a coach in the whole damn conference. Good god, when in a bar fight I want the guy named Brock Spack on my side!

[Bison"FANatic"]

You are only up 18-17. With anything more than probably 15 seconds (exact time debatable), you need to kick that baby deep to make them use time in moving the ball to get into FG range. Honestly, I wouldn't care if Dennis Hester was back there; make them actually beat you. With how little time they had and a good kick/coverage, they would most likely either run out of time, or had a very long FG to have to make.

Especially with the kick off moved up and most kickers able to to drop the kick very either close to or out of the endzone. Very rarely do you see someone take it at the 10 or even 5 anymore.

[Mr. Burgundy]

Especially with the kick off moved up and most kickers able to to drop the kick very either close to or out of the endzone. Very rarely do you see someone take it at the 10 or even 5 anymore.

My point would be it was poor execution by the kicker and not necessarily a poor coaching move. The kicker kicked it into one of the up backs giving them good field position. they lost, he screwed up. A ton of coaches squib kick that. Hoping a tight end (blocker) ends up with the ball in his hands and not the explosive skill talent kids in the back end of a return. I tend to agree, I typically like to kick it the entire way. No clue on wind, strenght of kicker leg, etc. I just know from people that know, that the kicker didn't do what he was supposed to do and gave them unreal field position.

[THEsocalledfan]

My point would be it was poor execution by the kicker and not necessarily a poor coaching move. The kicker kicked it into one of the up backs giving them good field position. they lost, he screwed up. A ton of coaches squib kick that. Hoping a tight end (blocker) ends up with the ball in his hands and not the explosive skill talent kids in the back end of a return. I tend to agree, I typically like to kick it the entire way. No clue on wind, strenght of kicker leg, etc. I just know from people that know, that the kicker didn't do what he was supposed to do and gave them unreal field position.

I really don't think it matters; you don't squib, period. If you squib, you are usually guaranteeing at least the 35 yl. I want to make them go another 10-15 yards. If there was less time, I would agree with you. Unless you have a complete slug for a kicker, I never see this as a good move in this circumstance.

[Bison"FANatic"]

My point would be it was poor execution by the kicker and not necessarily a poor coaching move. The kicker kicked it into one of the up backs giving them good field position. they lost, he screwed up. A ton of coaches squib kick that. Hoping a tight end (blocker) ends up with the ball in his hands and not the explosive skill talent kids in the back end of a return. I tend to agree, I typically like to kick it the entire way. No clue on wind, strenght of kicker leg, etc. I just know from people that know, that the kicker didn't do what he was supposed to do and gave them unreal field position.

Ya I understand you. It is never in the cards to smack the up man with the ball. The squib kicks seem to not make it through to the returners (as it should) and a up man gets it and they are at what the 20 to start maybe fielding it at the 30 and takes it a few yards and are down. It would be interesting to see the stats on starting position with a squib. It seems like it would be around the 30 or 35 so why not just take all chance of a mess up out of the equation and kick it out of bounds and make them start at the 35 and go 40 yards before they are even at a chance at a less than 45 yard field goal.

[semobison]

I really don't think it matters; you don't squib, period. If you squib, you are usually guaranteeing at least the 35 yl. I want to make them go another 10-15 yards. If there was less time, I would agree with you. Unless you have a complete slug for a kicker, I never see this as a good move in this circumstance.

Last year USD kicks a FG with 1:48 to play to take a 3 point lead against Montana. USD kicks it deep and Henderson from Montana takes it to the house for the winning score. After the game Glenn said they should have squibbed the kick off. Whatever your decision, players and the kicker need to execute. Special teams is a big part of the game.

[1998braves64]

Squib would be the way I would go (obviously you're depending on kicker to find a seam where he doesn't hit the up man or even the 2nd row. The reason for that is a squib is a live ball it puts extra pressure on person who normally isn't handling kickoffs to pick up a rolling, spinning, bouncing ball, generally their coach is going to tell them to just fall on it and recover it to avoid losing it in a "fumble" or not even picking it up scenario to kicking team. The fault is in a very poor execution of the squib by the kicker, unless his coach told him to try to bounce it off a player for extra "confusion" which would then be a bad coaching decision. Even so seems like most FCS kickers can kick it out of the endzone but wind may have been a factor that we never think about on our home games.

[THEsocalledfan]

Last year USD kicks a FG with 1:48 to play to take a 3 point lead against Montana. USD kicks it deep and Henderson from Montana takes it to the house for the winning score. After the game Glenn said they should have squibbed the kick off. Whatever your decision, players and the kicker need to execute. Special teams is a big part of the game.

And, they were beaten instead of beating themselves. I'd feel a lot better than losing after a squib. I maintain I would never, ever squib the ball in these situations unless my kicker is horse crap. 10-15 yards of field position is critical in these situations.

[BisonNeil]

Craig Haley of TSN picks UNI to beat ISUr, for those who care.

And, along with that prediction and preceding it is a nice little article on the Bison. Be warned all of you who suffer from the Al McGuire syndrome and believe that teams must lose before they get into the playoffs so they relax and can re-focus, you won't like what Haley has to say. Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4734457

[StL Bison Fan]

Craig Haley of TSN picks UNI to beat ISUr, for those who care.

And, along with that prediction and preceding it is a nice little article on the Bison. Be warned all of you who suffer from the Al McGuire syndrome and believe that teams must lose before they get into the playoffs so they relax and can re-focus, you won't like what Haley has to say. Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4734457

Much in this article. Liked the Bison part and chuckled at the 'nick-name less team'.

[CaBisonFan]

Craig Haley of TSN picks UNI to beat ISUr, for those who care.

And, along with that prediction and preceding it is a nice little article on the Bison. Be warned all of you who suffer from the Al McGuire syndrome and believe that teams must lose before they get into the playoffs so they relax and can re-focus, you won't like what Haley has to say. Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4734457I think the Bison feel like they've lost when they don't thrash a team by 30 or 40. It accomplishes the same thing.

[CAS4127]

Much in this article. Liked the Bison part and chuckled at the 'nick-name less team'.

First Joe Glenn, and now this. I'm sure they feel they are being picked on . . . poor things!!

[BisonNeil]

I think the Bison feel like they've lost when they don't thrash a team by 30 or 40. It accomplishes the same thing.

Good point CA! I think you are right, especially when I think of the player's comments after the WIU game.