A new and better FBS thread

[skunkapekiller]

wouldn't be surprised with everything und has done academically and athletically in the last 20 years

[GCWaters]

So you're saying Cook doesn't want FBS? Doesn't really matter what the AD thinks then, does it, despite all the heat he takes here?

I think he's open to it, but it's not a priority. He has a number of other things on his plate right now that are more pressing and more important--I know that's not a popular thing to say here. I think he'd consider it if the opportunity were there, but I don't think it's something he's actively pursuing. I think Bresciani was pretty much a "no". And yes--the AD is doing what the president wants. Both DB and Cook have shown their willingness to fire people who don't do what they want, so the fact that ML still has a job is telling.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Another thing that struck me ... When MM interviewed Aresco, the AAC commish said "we don't talk about schools that are interested in us, and who we might be interested in too"

You suppose he got that just from Entz's media quote? He sure as hell didn't get it from Bisonville (sorry lakes). Would seem to suggest some communication had occurred

Side note but I wish tony would block the und bots. He can block me too if he wants, to make it fair, even though I always use facts instead of bs ;)

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I think he's open to it, but it's not a priority. He has a number of other things on his plate right now that are more pressing and more important--I know that's not a popular thing to say here. I think he'd consider it if the opportunity were there, but I don't think it's something he's actively pursuing. I think Bresciani was pretty much a "no". And yes--the AD is doing what the president wants. Both DB and Cook have shown their willingness to fire people who don't do what they want, so the fact that ML still has a job is telling.

gee no kidding

[skunkapekiller]

what did entz say about the aac ?

[BigHorns]

what did entz say about the aac ?

That we will be there when UND goes D2 soon.

[skunkapekiller]

return of the ncc 2.0

[BigHorns]

Doesn't it come down to what a school can bring to a conference in regards to media rights. If the MWC is getting $4 million per school today, NDSU has to have at least that value. What does NDSU generate today with their media package(s)? $1.5-2 million range. As a result from a pure media exposure standpoint NDSU is not a viable option.

Take Stanford and Cal. Why did they get left behind? Not competition or alumni support. But they don't have the media value. Oregon State and Washington State, same issue.

Yes and no.

A conference will generally only add schools that raise the media values for everyone if they are in a stable situation.

If they are backfilling lost members and feel they "need" new members for survival, they will take the best available. Best can sometimes be defined differently by different members/schools. Some may look at media value, others the academic side, travel can be a factor, etc.

The idea that we can force our way in is dumb, we do need the right opening in a conference that wants us.

[skunkapekiller]

there is a reason why the Big10 only takes AAU schools (99.9% of the time...nebraska).....and it aint always because of media markets

[BigHorns]

there is a reason why the Big10 only takes AAU schools (99.9% of the time...nebraska).....and it aint always because of media markets

There is also a reason Big10 hasn't added CaliStan, and it has nothing to do with academics.

[skunkapekiller]

4 teams for california was more than they needed..only needed 2 and took 2...they are eyeing unc and virginia next
1a ucla
1b usc
3 stan
4 cal

[BigLakeBison]

4 teams for california was more than they needed..only needed and took 2...they are eyeing unc and virginia next
1a ucla
1b usc
3 stan
4 cal

Well, if they "need" 2 teams from North Dakota, than UND is in!

[skunkapekiller]

either 2 or 4 of the dak4
and i think ndsu's title 9 stuff (and other stuff) puts them at 4
1.und
2. usd
3.sdsu
4.ndsu

[BigHorns]

either 2 or 4 of the dak4
and i think ndsu's title 9 stuff (and other stuff) puts them at 4
1.und
2. usd
3.sdsu
4.ndsu

Flip that list and you’ve got it exactly right. :rofl:

[skunkapekiller]

when the BSC was looking to expand which 2 schools got the invite?

[BigLakeBison]

either 2 or 4 of the dak4
and i think ndsu's title 9 stuff (and other stuff) puts them at 4
1.und
2. usd
3.sdsu
4.ndsu

nAiLeD iT!

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I think he's open to it, but it's not a priority. He has a number of other things on his plate right now that are more pressing and more important--I know that's not a popular thing to say here. I think he'd consider it if the opportunity were there, but I don't think it's something he's actively pursuing. I think Bresciani was pretty much a "no". And yes--the AD is doing what the president wants. Both DB and Cook have shown their willingness to fire people who don't do what they want, so the fact that ML still has a job is telling.

You mean because the ADs tone has changed wrt FBS

[GCWaters]

You mean because the ADs tone has changed wrt FBS

What I mean is that if DB or Cook wanted us to go FBS, ML would be working on it, actively--maybe not in complete El Chapo mode, but with more urgency than he has been. If not, he wouldn't have a job. His almost complete lack of attention to it during the Bresciani years reflects, to me, what Bresciani wanted. He (DB) told me once that he didn't think the value of moving up was worth the cost and his actions reflected it. The fact that ML is now paying more attention to a possible move reflects--again, to me--the idea that Cook is more open to it than Bresciani was, but that it's still not urgent or a priority.

Again, just my opinion but my interactions with both presidents reinforce it.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

What I mean is that if DB or Cook wanted us to go FBS, ML would be working on it, actively--maybe not in complete El Chapo mode, but with more urgency than he has been. If not, he wouldn't have a job. His almost complete lack of attention to it during the Bresciani years reflects, to me, what Bresciani wanted. He (DB) told me once that he didn't think the value of moving up was worth the cost and his actions reflected it. The fact that ML is now paying more attention to a possible move reflects--again, to me--the idea that Cook is more open to it than Bresciani was, but that it's still not urgent or a priority.

Again, just my opinion but my interactions with both presidents reinforce it.

Thanks for clarifying, and I would agree. Lots going on right now for sure
See you in the dome this fall. Looking forward to it

[taper]

Why are we pretending it's as simple as wanting it?
Augustana wants Summit.
Boise St wants any P5.
Missouri St wants Sunbelt.
UCF claimed a football title and only got a P5 invite when the B12 was desperate.
MVC still thinks they're an elite BB conference despite being a 1 bid league.
HBCUs think the Celebration Bowl is a national title.
Pretty much everybody wants a B1G or SEC invite.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Why are we pretending it's as simple as wanting it?
Augustana wants Summit.
Boise St wants any P5.
Missouri St wants Sunbelt.
UCF claimed a football title and only got a P5 invite when the B12 was desperate.
MVC still thinks they're an elite BB conference despite being a 1 bid league.
HBCUs think the Celebration Bowl is a national title.
Pretty much everybody wants a B1G or SEC invite.

I don't think anybody is
But it's a big first step, and one that wasn't clear until recently

[skunkapekiller]

watch what you say about the mvc buddy.....

[EC8CH]

http://youtu.be/SLi7Ljcy6n8

My theme song for a move to the MW where the games people play are in the middle of the night.

Cause I don't want to stay here (FCS) no more, wasting my life away.

[BigHorns]

I don't think anybody is
But it's a big first step, and one that wasn't clear until recently

There are a few "fbs now, at any costs!" types here that choose to not understand.

I think the vast majority know it is complicated, and it takes the right situation to happen.

[BigLakeBison]

There are a few "fbs now, at any costs!" types here that choose to not understand.

I think the vast majority know it is complicated, and it takes the right situation to happen.

I think there is (1) FBS at any cost. I think the rest have differing levels of cost that they would support.

[TAILG8R]

I think there is (1) FBS at any cost. I think the rest have differing levels of cost that they would support.

Agreed.

I feel a trend of this thread going back to what it was a few months ago. FCS forever vs FBS at all cost ... blah blah blah

[GCWaters]

Agreed.

I feel a trend of this thread going back to what it was a few months ago. FCS forever vs FBS at all cost ... blah blah blah

Tony started this thread in 2014....it's been on an endless loop since then...

[BigHorns]

I think there is (1) FBS at any cost. I think the rest have differing levels of cost that they would support.

Perhaps. I just don't get why a few want to harp on the non-realistic options now when the door may be opening for a good path.
Its been pretty clear, and reported what the conferences/conditions we need for a move are. I'm good with it.

Now, just have to see how this all plays out.
This was never going to happen fast enough to please everyone. We don't control the timing.

[El_Chapo]

is skunk that darrel dork or the guy that's 67 with the cowboy hat that runs onto their field with the flag.

[Professorbum]

Tony started this thread in 2014....it's been on an endless loop since then...

This statement is Exhibit A that the FCS crowd has been winning the argument and are still winning. Although we've had this thread for 9 years, some still view the "FBS now" crowd is nothing but unrealistic and impatient. I guess we need the nuance that some of you have to understand that even if we wait another 10 or 15 years, it is out of our control and there's nothing we can do about it because geography or something. I wasn't here for it, but I would put $100 down on the idea that there were NCC supporters saying the exact same thing at the time-- it's complicated, it's expensive, it's out of our control, it's not the right time. Apparently, it never is.

[EC8CH]

Perhaps. I just don't get why a few want to harp on the non-realistic options now when the door may be opening for a good path.
Its been pretty clear, and reported what the conferences/conditions we need for a move are. I'm good with it.

Now, just have to see how this all plays out.
This was never going to happen fast enough to please everyone. We don't control the timing.

https://media.tenor.com/v0cBeb_yBgUAAAAC/its-been84years-titanic.gif

[BigLakeBison]

Perhaps. I just don't get why a few want to harp on the non-realistic options now when the door may be opening for a good path.
Its been pretty clear, and reported what the conferences/conditions we need for a move are. I'm good with it.

Now, just have to see how this all plays out.
This was never going to happen fast enough to please everyone. We don't control the timing.

You may end up right and you may end up wrong. Waiting for a better path is subjective. If I have harped previously it was on the fact that there seemed to be absolutely no acknowledgement from NDSU that there was growing apathetic fan sentiment. In my opinion, they have at least acknowledged that and seem to be making a more proactive effort to explore their options. I may wish personally for them to push more aggressively but I also understand that it may not matter so I am not sweating that stuff right now. I'm ok with the fact that I believe they are trying. Personally, I also get frustrated with the sentiment from you and others that CUSA is this significant step down from the MVFC. Comparing just the football side between the two, there would be pros and cons to both. CUSA would be short term pain for potential long term gain (if you believe we could parlay it into something better down the road). MVFC would be short term gain for potential long term pain (if you believe that the fan apathy continues). There is no easy answer here but I do lean towards the thinking that our time to sit back and wait is over and we need to be a bit more aggressive (not desperate) in our pursuit. You feel a bit different than me. So be it.

[NDSU92]

You may end up right and you may end up wrong. Waiting for a better path is subjective. If I have harped previously it was on the fact that there seemed to be absolutely no acknowledgement from NDSU that there was growing apathetic fan sentiment. In my opinion, they have at least acknowledged that and seem to be making a more proactive effort to explore their options. I may wish personally for them to push more aggressively but I also understand that it may not matter so I am not sweating that stuff right now. I'm ok with the fact that I believe they are trying. Personally, I also get frustrated with the sentiment from you and others that CUSA is this significant step down from the MVFC. Comparing just the football side between the two, there would be pros and cons to both. CUSA would be short term pain for potential long term gain (if you believe we could parlay it into something better down the road). MVFC would be short term gain for potential long term pain (if you believe that the fan apathy continues). There is no easy answer here but I do lean towards the thinking that our time to sit back and wait is over and we need to be a bit more aggressive (not desperate) in our pursuit. You feel a bit different than me. So be it.

Sums up my stance very well. And a lot of fans I know in my generation.

[skunkapekiller]

none of the above...wyoming fan

[taper]

It's hard to believe people still look at CUSA as a good thing. That would have been an absolute disaster.
Less than half our media deal.
Massively increased travel costs.
Leaving ALL our rivals behind, which hurts attendance.
Laughing stock conference that everyone is trying to get out of.
0% chance at a CFP berth due to crappy SOS.

But hey, you can brag to your bar friends that we're FBS in name only. I guess there's that.
Ever notice that the rumors about MWC adds don't include ANY of the CUSA adds but do include Dakotas and Montanas? This idea that you need to be any FBS to be a decent FBS is total crap.

[El_Chapo]

Taper.

dude. the longer we stay fcs, the longer we get sucked into the vortex and remain in NCC 2.0 or worse yet. add murray state, st thomas freakin lindenwood, etc...

the FATIGUE is upon us, started 2 years ago and last year reared its ugly head completely. staying put takes ndsu trajectory only 1 way. many of us have the vision..... and wanted this in 2014 and 2017:facepalm::facepalm:

AAC or MWC

[NDSUstudent]

Hoping for stars to align is not a plan. Same ol' back-footed, "see how things shake out" approach to FBS as always. What we've always needed, and have always lacked, is a will to go to FBS come hell or high water because we belong there. And have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C to get there. And then go after each plan one by one until we are in FBS. This has never been our mentality.

We have an aging fanbase that likes the FCS, the MVFC and Frisco....that is part of the problem and it makes things very comfortable for our administration. Our fanbase has warped views on how good the FCS and MVFC are. Some treat the MVFC like it is the SEC when it is really just a collection of basketball schools that somewhat care about football while the FCS is mostly schools that don't even really care at all or don't have the resources to even try to do anything more than just have a football team.

[skunkapekiller]

what ends all this FBS/FCS bullcrap is my manifesto....all D1 football...no varsity and jr varsity...you win...you win it all

[BigLakeBison]

It's hard to believe people still look at CUSA as a good thing. That would have been an absolute disaster.
Less than half our media deal.
Massively increased travel costs.
Leaving ALL our rivals behind, which hurts attendance.
Laughing stock conference that everyone is trying to get out of.
0% chance at a CFP berth due to crappy SOS.

But hey, you can brag to your bar friends that we're FBS in name only. I guess there's that.
Ever notice that the rumors about MWC adds don't include ANY of the CUSA adds but do include Dakotas and Montanas? This idea that you need to be any FBS to be a decent FBS is total crap.

It’s hard to believe that some deny that NDSU doesn’t belong in the FCS. WIU left the MVFC/Summit because NDSU raised the bar for budgets especially for football and the other 3 Dakotas are chasing them. We spend like a G5 school. We don’t belong here and it’s not good for anyone. Not for NDSU and not for the rest of the FCS.

[TAILG8R]

It’s hard to believe that some deny that NDSU doesn’t belong in the FCS. WIU left the MVFC/Summit because NDSU raised the bar for budgets especially for football and the other 3 Dakotas are chasing them. We spend like a G5 school. We don’t belong here and it’s not good for anyone. Not for NDSU and not for the rest of the FCS.

+++++++++++++++++++


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigHorns]

It’s hard to believe that some deny that NDSU doesn’t belong in the FCS. WIU left the MVFC/Summit because NDSU raised the bar for budgets especially for football and the other 3 Dakotas are chasing them. We spend like a G5 school. We don’t belong here and it’s not good for anyone. Not for NDSU and not for the rest of the FCS.

Don't think anyone would argue with a MWC or AAC move, and thats what we seem to be interested in.
Its looking likely there will be slots there, just the PAC-4 and other conferences have to figure things out. Personally, I'd be ok with MAC as well, and think we'd have a shot, but maybe the money doesn't work. Bus leagues are generally that way to save money.

CUSA would be a competitive downgrade, literally. Sagarin ratings make that clear. It was the right call for NDSU to say no to that trainwreck.

[BigLakeBison]

Don't think anyone would argue with a MWC or AAC move, and thats what we seem to be interested in.
Its looking likely there will be slots there, just the PAC-4 and other conferences have to figure things out. Personally, I'd be ok with MAC as well, and think we'd have a shot, but maybe the money doesn't work. Bus leagues are generally that way to save money.

CUSA would be a competitive downgrade, literally. Sagarin ratings make that clear. It was the right call for NDSU to say no to that trainwreck.

If a better spot opens up in the next few years, yes. If NDSU remains in the FCS for the next decade or more, then I disagree. I guess we’ll see. I hope you’re right because I do agree that MWC or AAC are better options.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Hoping for stars to align is not a plan. Same ol' back-footed, "see how things shake out" approach to FBS as always. What we've always needed, and have always lacked, is a will to go to FBS come hell or high water because we belong there. And have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C to get there. And then go after each plan one by one until we are in FBS. This has never been our mentality.
The plan has always been to take the opportunity to move up to the FBS if an invite comes, I’m sure we have always been prepared to accept an invite if the right one comes. Sad thing is we haven’t gotten any invite. Hard to blame the administration when it’s really out of their hands. CUSA is the only thing we could have tried to jump at and instead we are are in the FCS waiting for the door to open.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

My interpretation of things is that Cook is more open to FBS than Bresciani ever was. I think that along with the recent FCS to FBS move ups, the response to Covid from the larger FCS and the continuing decline in fan engagement has made staying in the FCS more risky for NDSU. That is what I think is driving their more public openness to the prospect of moving to FBS. I would agree that ML doesn't deserve the entirety of criticism that he gets. It very well could be that he has been banging the FBS drum behind the scenes and has been met with opposition by higher ups. If that was the case though I would think he would have become very frustrated and likely not want to remain in a position where he feels his opinions regarding the Ath. Dept. don't carry the weight he would like. It is probably more realistic that he shared similar views to the higher ups and didn't think FBS was the right move until recently. I don't know, just speculating.
Anyone who is president right now would be open to moving to the FBS as they would see that the program is slowly fading way due to “bison fatigue”. The cash cow is dying and you can’t just let that happen without changes.

[reformedUNDfan]

I think there is (1) FBS at any cost. I think the rest have differing levels of cost that they would support.

You could count me but my stakes are different so I don't think I should count.

[El_Chapo]

MOUNTAIN WEST OPEN FOR BUSINESS!!

READ THEIR STATEMENT 45 MIN AGO NDSU ADMIN BETTER BE CALLING THEM ASAP

https://www.facebook.com/100064590798069/posts/pfbid0To9hg6ih4KKKuZG2ymstmT4JcsdtddAFFZi9jxQsXhBn t2M4jPqV8WYtgTmVZm6Pl/?mibextid=Nif5oz

[daddy daycare]

MOUNTAIN WEST OPEN FOR BUSINESS!!

READ THEIR STATEMENT 45 MIN AGO NDSU ADMIN BETTER BE CALLING THEM ASAP

https://www.facebook.com/100064590798069/posts/pfbid0To9hg6ih4KKKuZG2ymstmT4JcsdtddAFFZi9jxQsXhBn t2M4jPqV8WYtgTmVZm6Pl/?mibextid=Nif5oz

Yeah Washington State and Oregon State.

[TAILG8R]

Yeah Washington State and Oregon State.

I agree that is the most likely target but $4m/yr is going to be a very tough pill to swallow.

[El_Chapo]

I agree that is the most likely target but $4m/yr is going to be a very tough pill to swallow.

but even then MWC can add more to get to 16 teams

[TAILG8R]

but even then MWC can add more to get to 16 teams

Right. It's possible, maybe not likely, the MWC has decided that with all this chaos you're either growing or dying and they want to add for strength in numbers.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Complicating all of this is the message that people like Haley and Herder keep pushing – that G5 and top of FCS will merge into a new second tier
It's a cool idea, but ...

Show me one single piece of evidence that any G5 conference will willingly separate from the P5 at any point in the next decade
This thinking just offers fuel to the stay-FCS crowd, IMO

[NDSU92]

Complicating all of this is the message that people like Haley and Herder keep pushing – that G5 and top of FCS will merge into a new second tier
It's a cool idea, but ...

Show me one single piece of evidence that any G5 conference will willingly separate from the P5 at any point in the next decade
This thinking just offers fuel to the stay-FCS crowd, IMO

It’s just classic “what I want to happen” thinking so people do whatever they can to rationalize it.

Rubethought

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

It’s just classic “what I want to happen” thinking so people do whatever they can to rationalize it.

Rubethought

Agree

It's similar to the argument that the MVFC can just 'move up'. Would be wonderful, but ...

If the PAC dies, the overwhelming odds are that there are then 9 FBS conferences instead of 10 so that each can make more money off the new CFP

Money is driving all this folks, and as much as we wish it wasn't, it ain't gonna stop

[MWC]

I agree that is the most likely target but $4m/yr is going to be a very tough pill to swallow.

I don't care what Oregon State and Wazzu have to swallow..The MW didn't break up the Pac. Those folks did it to themselves.

However, a couple of points. We don't know if any of the Pac 4 has any interest in joining the MW.

There could be a merger of sorts but that is really only attractive if Stanford is in the mix

In the unlikely event of a merger, it would almost certainly be under the Pac brand and the MW would dissolve.

To dissolve it would take 9 votes and it seems unlikely that would happen. The Pac people surely don't want all of the MW schools. Nobody is going to vote themselves out of a conference.

Stanford and Cal are trying to figure something out and they could ride out independence for football and house their other sports somewhere.

Wazzu and OSU have a tougher row to hoe. The MW would happily offer them a home but only...and this is a big only..CBS and Fox agree to open up the tv contract to pay for those 2 schools.

This is something they wouldn't do when the MW was seeking to add, SMU Rice Tulsa and UTSA. The problem for the Pac 2 is in reality they are 2 small market schools in the eyes of providers.

College sports on their best days was unseemly as hell..Now it is rapidly moving towards sordid. What a mess.

[daddy daycare]

Complicating all of this is the message that people like Haley and Herder keep pushing – that G5 and top of FCS will merge into a new second tier
It's a cool idea, but ...

Show me one single piece of evidence that any G5 conference will willingly separate from the P5 at any point in the next decade
This thinking just offers fuel to the stay-FCS crowd, IMO

I think the idea is that P5 (or 3 or 4) will branch themselves off and form their own system and give the G5 no other choice. Which at this rate, seems like a realistic scenario.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I think the idea is that P5 (or 3 or 4) will branch themselves off and form their own system and give the G5 no other choice. Which at this rate, seems like a realistic scenario.

Obviously that is the "idea" - Show me any evidence that it is actually moving that way

You have the SEC/B1G as the P2, sure
Then there are (still) 3 other "power" conferences
Most of those schools will not get into the P2, and the P2 will never willingly shed the NCAA banner (and the NCAA has no balls, apparently)

Sorry, but they will drag the G5 along, especially if they stop playing FCS (which seems much more likely and imminent than any hypothetical split)

You're just perpetuating the myth

I sure as hell hope we can stop talking about this when the season starts

[heffray]

Obviously that is the "idea" - Show me any evidence that it is actually moving that way

You have the SEC/B1G as the P2, sure
Then there are (still) 3 other "power" conferences
Most of those schools will not get into the P2, and the P2 will never willingly shed the NCAA banner (and the NCAA has no balls, apparently)

Sorry, but they will drag the G5 along, especially if they stop playing FCS (which seems much more likely and imminent than any hypothetical split)

You're just perpetuating the myth

I sure as hell hope we can stop talking about this when the season starts

I think the B12 is positioning itself pretty well to remain in the conversation. I think a P4 system is more likely at this point. Curious what happens to the expanded 12-team CFP if there are only 4 conferences. Seems like you could whittle it back down to a 4-team playoff of the 4 conference champs. I would love that.

[daddy daycare]

Obviously that is the "idea" - Show me any evidence that it is actually moving that way

You have the SEC/B1G as the P2, sure
Then there are (still) 3 other "power" conferences
Most of those schools will not get into the P2, and the P2 will never willingly shed the NCAA banner (and the NCAA has no balls, apparently)

Sorry, but they will drag the G5 along, especially if they stop playing FCS (which seems much more likely and imminent than any hypothetical split)

You're just perpetuating the myth

I sure as hell hope we can stop talking about this when the season starts

Perpetuating the myth. OK. I personally could care less what happens, just stating what seems to be the most obvious at this point. I could tell you a school that doesn't appear to be on anyone's list at the moment but it might hurt your feelers...

Sure looks like the big boys give a shit about the G5 at the moment, doesn't it?

[NDSUstudent]

Complicating all of this is the message that people like Haley and Herder keep pushing – that G5 and top of FCS will merge into a new second tier
It's a cool idea, but ...

Show me one single piece of evidence that any G5 conference will willingly separate from the P5 at any point in the next decade
This thinking just offers fuel to the stay-FCS crowd, IMO

Yeah, I am sick of it as well...the G5 has no use for the FCS, they can take what they want if they like but they don't need the FCS or the NCAA to start their own playoff. Outside of a handful of schools nobody in the FCS brings any value to them, most of the FCS is just dead weight.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Perpetuating the myth. OK. I personally could care less what happens, just stating what seems to be the most obvious at this point. I could tell you a school that doesn't appear to be on anyone's list at the moment but it might hurt your feelers...

Sure looks like the big boys give a shit about the G5 at the moment, doesn't it?

Then why the fuck are you here, other than to shit on NDSU?

And no, you'll never hurt my feelings. At the end of the day, I will happily support NDSU wherever they reside

and you just contradicted yourself

[skunkapekiller]

Brandon Lang
Add Washington State, Oregon State, cal, and North Dakota State. Also could replace one pac 12 team for Montana University. I don't think Stanford will go to mountain west. They will probably go independent

Pac 12 school, Pac 12 school, Pac 12 school,................and NDSU.
I want to meet this guy haha!

[daddy daycare]

Then why the fuck are you here, other than to shit on NDSU?

And no, you'll never hurt my feelings. At the end of the day, I will happily support NDSU wherever they reside

and you just contradicted yourself

Ohhhh the internet police. Let me know when I can or should post boss.

Shit on NDSU Lol...keep up the good fight, seems to be working great.

[TAILG8R]

Brandon Lang
Add Washington State, Oregon State, cal, and North Dakota State. Also could replace one pac 12 team for Montana University. I don't think Stanford will go to mountain west. They will probably go independent

Pac 12 school, Pac 12 school, Pac 12 school,................and NDSU.
I want to meet this guy haha!

Source linky ?

[BigHorns]

Yeah, I am sick of it as well...the G5 has no use for the FCS, they can take what they want if they like but they don't need the FCS or the NCAA to start their own playoff. Outside of a handful of schools nobody in the FCS brings any value to them, most of the FCS is just dead weight.

They need FCS games for the easy wins to get them Bowl eligible.

[TAILG8R]

They need FCS games for the easy wins to get them Bowl eligible.

There are dozens and dozens of easy wins amongst themselves in the G5


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigHorns]

There are dozens and dozens of easy wins amongst themselves in the G5


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Overall, not enough teams could reach the 6 win threshold though.

They had more Bowls than eligible teams last year, and had to give exemptions to a couple teams.
It would be much worse if they dropped the FCS games.

Appearance wise they don't want to put a bunch of 5-7 or worse teams in bowls.
There's 35 bowls, so they need 70 eligible 6-6 or better FBS teams. The math doesn't work without FCS games.

[TAILG8R]

Overall, not enough teams could reach the 6 win threshold though.

They had more Bowls than eligible teams last year, and had to give exemptions to a couple teams.
It would be much worse if they dropped the FCS games.

Appearance wise they don't want to put a bunch of 5-7 or worse teams in bowls.
There's 35 bowls, so they need 70 eligible 6-6 or better FBS teams. The math doesn't work without FCS games.

If this pretend break off of the P4 happens there is now way the bowl game structure, qualifiers, etc stay the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

If this pretend break off of the P4 happens there is now way the bowl game structure, qualifiers, etc stay the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It will change regardless

[Hammerhead]

Why not invite the Pac-4 to the MFVC and kick out some of the bottom feeders in our conference? :biggrin:

[NDSU92]

Not sure if I saw it posted here but Stanford brass apparently told ESPN that they’d have a resolution for 2024 by the end of this week.

Then again I don’t put much stock into anyone from the PAC giving me a timeline

[BigHorns]

If this pretend break off of the P4 happens there is now way the bowl game structure, qualifiers, etc stay the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see the bowls disappearing, theres too much money and sponsors involved.
What is happening thus far is the top bowls are getting converted into playoff games, but no bowls are disappearing.

If there is a split, I'd imagine the bowls will split too. The conferences likely keep their current bowl tie-ins for the most part, and P4 bowls go with the P4, and current G5 bowls would stay with the G5.

There is talk now of the PAC Rose Bowl slot moving over to B10. It won't disappear no matter the outcome.

[Professor Chaos]

I'll take Chip Kelly's idea to solve the out-of-control realignment whirlwind: https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/10/ucla-chip-kelly-pitches-notre-dame-inspired-realignment-idea

In short - no conference affiliation for football in the P4. They're all like Notre Dame and build their own schedules with their own media contracts. Travel doesn't matter since they all charter anyway. There's no automatic qualifiers to the playoffs - only the best teams are selected (no G5 teams though - they'd have their own playoff/championship).

[bisonaudit]

I'll take Chip Kelly's idea to solve the out-of-control realignment whirlwind: https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/10/ucla-chip-kelly-pitches-notre-dame-inspired-realignment-idea

In short - no conference affiliation for football in the P4. They're all like Notre Dame and build their own schedules with their own media contracts. Travel doesn't matter since they all charter anyway. There's no automatic qualifiers to the playoffs - only the best teams are selected (no G5 teams though - they'd have their own playoff/championship).

That does European football one better on the free market front.

[BigLakeBison]

I don't see the bowls disappearing, theres too much money and sponsors involved.
What is happening thus far is the top bowls are getting converted into playoff games, but no bowls are disappearing.

If there is a split, I'd imagine the bowls will split too. The conferences likely keep their current bowl tie-ins for the most part, and P4 bowls go with the P4, and current G5 bowls would stay with the G5.

There is talk now of the PAC Rose Bowl slot moving over to B10. It won't disappear no matter the outcome.

If there is a split, I just don't see how 38 bowl games would be able to be maintained. The G5 will struggle to make ends meet without CFP money and it's likely their media deals will be reduced (at least as a percentage of overall budget). They will not be able to in any way foot the bill for bowl games. We have heard that many of the bowls actually cost the teams money. They only make money for the bowl organizer (which in large part has included ESPN). We know how their finances are doing. You're probably right that bowls remain. I just don't see 38 remaining if a split actually happens.

[The_Sicatoka]

I'm starting to buy in to the "SMU to ACC" steam. SMU has money. They'd rather be a P than a G. They've reportedly said they'd forego a share for five years if they got an offer. They must've saved up all that Dickerson, James, Pony Express money from the 1980s.

SMU: At the forefront of NIL since 1982.

[IndyBison]

I don't see the bowls disappearing, theres too much money and sponsors involved.
What is happening thus far is the top bowls are getting converted into playoff games, but no bowls are disappearing.

If there is a split, I'd imagine the bowls will split too. The conferences likely keep their current bowl tie-ins for the most part, and P4 bowls go with the P4, and current G5 bowls would stay with the G5.

There is talk now of the PAC Rose Bowl slot moving over to B10. It won't disappear no matter the outcome.I think they eventually go away. The more they are used for playoff games, the less value they have as a bowl game. Fans won't make a week of it because they could have to travel multiple weeks. The teams won't do all the festivities around the bowl. They will eventually go to hosted sites for playoffs. Then you'll have the 3rd and 4th place conference teams playing in the top bowl games, which will lose sponsors. Once the G5 playoff is started fewer bowls will be needed. They will still exist but at a much smaller scale.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[TAILG8R]

I'm starting to buy in to the "SMU to ACC" steam. SMU has money. They'd rather be a P than a G. They've reportedly said they'd forego a share for five years if they got an offer. They must've saved up all that Dickerson, James, Pony Express money from the 1980s.

SMU: At the forefront of NIL since 1982.

Linked a The Athletic article in another thread, from that article talking about ACC expansion " SMU is willing to forgo any conference revenue distribution for five years, as sources have indicated"

EDIT: Also "ACC commissioner Jim Phillips is a proponent of adding the Bay Area schools and SMU, and the league initially considered adding up to seven Pac-12 schools last week after Oregon and Washington joined the Big Ten."

[scottietohottie]

What is Oregon thinking? Have they ever even beaten a big ten team?

[The_Sicatoka]

What is Oregon thinking? Have they ever even beaten a big ten team?

Just in the horseshoe less than two years ago ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=ohio+state+oregon&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS929US929&oq=ohio+state+oregon&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i512l6j69i60.4199j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[BigHorns]

I think they eventually go away. The more they are used for playoff games, the less value they have as a bowl game. Fans won't make a week of it because they could have to travel multiple weeks. The teams won't do all the festivities around the bowl. They will eventually go to hosted sites for playoffs. Then you'll have the 3rd and 4th place conference teams playing in the top bowl games, which will lose sponsors. Once the G5 playoff is started fewer bowls will be needed. They will still exist but at a much smaller scale.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

The cities and sponsors will do everything they can to preserve the bowls in some fashion, just too much money involved.
Benefits the schools and conferences as well, and fills TV time slots during the holidays.

[BigHorns]

Mandel at the Athletic has a mailbag response and article on why ultimately, the top 24-32 FBS teams will leave and form a mini NFL style league
Its a good read. He points to a book on how the English premier league formed, and why FBS is headed the same place now.

https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/1687545054951616512?s=20

[OrygunBison]

https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/09/washington-state-president-blunt-admission-realignment-pac-12-mountain-west

[Hammerhead]

Und is barely an fcs level program. There is no world in which grand forks is more appealing than SDSU

No outdoor football game in December if UND somehow managed to make it to the conference championship game.

[bisonaudit]

Mandel at the Athletic has a mailbag response and article on why ultimately, the top 24-32 FBS teams will leave and form a mini NFL style league
Its a good read. He points to a book on how the English premier league formed, and why FBS is headed the same place now.

https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/1687545054951616512?s=20

I guess we’re just ignoring the bit where there’s access for everyone else to the league via promotion/relegation. They also share something like 20 percent of their TV revenue to the EFL to support the rest of the pyramid and participate in two in season tournaments that support the lower leagues as well.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I guess we’re just ignoring the bit where there’s access for everyone else to the league via promotion/relegation. They also share something like 20 percent of their TV revenue to the EFL to support the rest of the pyramid and participate in two in season tournaments that support the lower leagues as well.

Exactly
Kelly's idea of two playoffs [P5 and G5 (no FCS)] is much more likely IMO
These guys would never accept relegation, or sharing for that matter, and that's the only way this model would work
Greed will bite them in the ass at some point

[NDSU92]

I guess we’re just ignoring the bit where there’s access for everyone else to the league via promotion/relegation. They also share something like 20 percent of their TV revenue to the EFL to support the rest of the pyramid and participate in two in season tournaments that support the lower leagues as well.

This is America audit. Land of opportunity for the haves. No way the have nots are getting a sniff of any money, access, branding eventually. Why would the fat cats do something stupid like give away money for the good of anyone else when they could just get fatter themselves. They’ve proven that they’ll wreck everything in an attempt to make just a little bit more money, why would they stop now?

I’ve always said that the P5 wouldn’t break off due to the lawyer fees that would happen on the anti-trust aspect. With how much money is getting thrown around I don’t think those fees are going to be getting in the way for much longer.

Tin foil hat time: the P5 been wanting to break away for a long time. Couldn’t break away due to anti-trust issues. Their plan b which we’re now seeing is to wreck the college athletics landscape enough to be able to validate a claim that major reform is in order. That reform just so happens to be creating an exclusive super league where they get all the money. They learned their lesson from European soccer - don’t fix something that isn’t broken, break it first.

[scottietohottie]

This isn't futboll it's futboll Americano eh!

[BigHorns]

This is America audit. Land of opportunity for the haves. No way the have nots are getting a sniff of any money, access, branding eventually. Why would the fat cats do something stupid like give away money for the good of anyone else when they could just get fatter themselves. They’ve proven that they’ll wreck everything in an attempt to make just a little bit more money, why would they stop now?

I’ve always said that the P5 wouldn’t break off due to the lawyer fees that would happen on the anti-trust aspect. With how much money is getting thrown around I don’t think those fees are going to be getting in the way for much longer.

Tin foil hat time: the P5 been wanting to break away for a long time. Couldn’t break away due to anti-trust issues. Their plan b which we’re now seeing is to wreck the college athletics landscape enough to be able to validate a claim that major reform is in order. That reform just so happens to be creating an exclusive super league where they get all the money. They learned their lesson from European soccer - don’t fix something that isn’t broken, break it first.

This will likely come in stages, and take a little while longer, but all the moves support it
- NIL and transfer portal help the schools with the most money harvest all the talent, everyone else becomes farm league for them
- consolidation of power schools with increasingly large conference payouts ... now the schools with only $30m feel poor next to those with $70m payouts. This is escalating the mad rush for consolidation. G5 makes peanuts next to this, and won't be able to keep up.
- already talk of reworking the CFP before it starts, removing the G5 slot, and making it all at large bids the top power conferences can soak up. They will use the first blowout between Alabama/OSU and the G5 champ as an excuse to dump that spot, and say there are "more deserving" teams. Any real G5 access to the CFP will disappear in 3 years when they rework that contract.

The current model just won't be sustainable on this path, the only question is what comes next for those outside the P2 or P3.

[BISONBRI53]

This will likely come in stages, and take a little while longer, but all the moves support it
- NIL and transfer portal help the schools with the most money harvest all the talent, everyone else becomes farm league for them
- consolidation of power schools with increasingly large conference payouts ... now the schools with only $30m feel poor next to those with $70m payouts. This is escalating the mad rush for consolidation. G5 makes peanuts next to this, and won't be able to keep up.
- already talk of reworking the CFP before it starts, removing the G5 slot, and making it all at large bids the top power conferences can soak up. They will use the first blowout between Alabama/OSU and the G5 champ as an excuse to dump that spot, and say there are "more deserving" teams. Any real G5 access to the CFP will disappear in 3 years when they rework that contract.

The current model just won't be sustainable on this path, the only question is what comes next for those outside the P2 or P3.

Could the NCAA step in then and say for the remaining schools left out in the cold that the NCAA will form a new division. Upper FCS (us) and the remaining schools will be in that 2nd tier and play a league with a champion.... Just like FCS now D2 D3 and everyone else... If the big boys want a separation from everyone else but want to keep the NCAA name then they should HAVE to play at least 1 lower level game a year with a large payout to that school...

[BigLakeBison]

This will likely come in stages, and take a little while longer, but all the moves support it
- NIL and transfer portal help the schools with the most money harvest all the talent, everyone else becomes farm league for them
- consolidation of power schools with increasingly large conference payouts ... now the schools with only $30m feel poor next to those with $70m payouts. This is escalating the mad rush for consolidation. G5 makes peanuts next to this, and won't be able to keep up.
- already talk of reworking the CFP before it starts, removing the G5 slot, and making it all at large bids the top power conferences can soak up. They will use the first blowout between Alabama/OSU and the G5 champ as an excuse to dump that spot, and say there are "more deserving" teams. Any real G5 access to the CFP will disappear in 3 years when they rework that contract.

The current model just won't be sustainable on this path, the only question is what comes next for those outside the P2 or P3.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't see how they are going to pull that off without a revolt. I understand that money is the driving force in this but if they don't acknowledge that a good portion of that money is coming from fans of the Universities outside of the top 40 or so programs than they are completely missing the mark on what I think makes college football so popular. They've totally leaned into the other way of thinking on the basketball side of things and realize that giving all conferences a path to the tournament makes the entire thing more popular, even if the majority of mid-major or below teams have really no chance of getting past the first round. The interest is greater and generates more money because of this. They could have a 16 team tournament of all at large picks that would likely result in a similar outcome, but the casual interest outside of the 16 teams would be reduced greatly. I just don't see how essentially the same decision makers (Presidents and ADs) can go entirely in the opposite direction with Football and be so arrogant as to think that by excluding that number of fans that they are going to continue to generate the overall interest. Makes no sense to me, but what do I know.

[BigHorns]

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't see how they are going to pull that off without a revolt. I understand that money is the driving force in this but if they don't acknowledge that a good portion of that money is coming from fans of the Universities outside of the top 40 or so programs than they are completely missing the mark on what I think makes college football so popular. They've totally leaned into the other way of thinking on the basketball side of things and realize that giving all conferences a path to the tournament makes the entire thing more popular, even if the majority of mid-major or below teams have really no chance of getting past the first round. The interest is greater and generates more money because of this. They could have a 16 team tournament of all at large picks that would likely result in a similar outcome, but the casual interest outside of the 16 teams would be reduced greatly. I just don't see how essentially the same decision makers (Presidents and ADs) can go entirely in the opposite direction with Football and be so arrogant as to think that by excluding that number of fans that they are going to continue to generate the overall interest. Makes no sense to me, but what do I know.

Don't know if this will succeed long term or not. Will all the walmart fans of the top 30-50 schools keep them on prime time television with all the money being funneled their way?

If you listen to interviews with power conference presidents, ADs, and coaches - almost all of them say this is where things are going, and they are going all out to make the cut and not be left out. FSU is calling it an existential crisis for them to remain in the ACC with "only" $35-40m payouts. They are busy raising $200-300m so they can leave ACC and join SEC or B1G. Every school seems to see SEC/B1G as the final 2 life boats out.

[NDSU92]

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't see how they are going to pull that off without a revolt. I understand that money is the driving force in this but if they don't acknowledge that a good portion of that money is coming from fans of the Universities outside of the top 40 or so programs than they are completely missing the mark on what I think makes college football so popular. They've totally leaned into the other way of thinking on the basketball side of things and realize that giving all conferences a path to the tournament makes the entire thing more popular, even if the majority of mid-major or below teams have really no chance of getting past the first round. The interest is greater and generates more money because of this. They could have a 16 team tournament of all at large picks that would likely result in a similar outcome, but the casual interest outside of the 16 teams would be reduced greatly. I just don't see how essentially the same decision makers (Presidents and ADs) can go entirely in the opposite direction with Football and be so arrogant as to think that by excluding that number of fans that they are going to continue to generate the overall interest. Makes no sense to me, but what do I know.

Basketball has infinitely more parity and a history of all the schools being involved. Football has had like 3 unique champions in the last decade and a history of a ridiculously exclusive bowl system.

Like I said, with as broken as they’ve made the landscape people are already begging for someone to fix it. Look no further than the schools who have the most money and power to make sure they’re the ones saving the day with a system that gives them the most money.

For the record I agree with you, I think it has a good chance of failing. Large part of the reason there’s so much money in TV is because Mr. Fresno State fan wants to watch the championship game of “his division”. I’m just telling you what they’re trying to accomplish with all of this funny business.

[BigLakeBison]

Basketball has infinitely more parity and a history of all the schools being involved. Football has had like 3 unique champions in the last decade and a history of a ridiculously exclusive bowl system.

Like I said, with as broken as they’ve made the landscape people are already begging for someone to fix it. Look no further than the schools who have the most money and power to make sure they’re the ones saving the day with a system that gives them the most money.

For the record I agree with you, I think it has a good chance of failing. Large part of the reason there’s so much money in TV is because Mr. Fresno State fan wants to watch the championship game of “his division”. I’m just telling you what they’re trying to accomplish with all of this funny business.

Parity in basketball comes from the fact that there is more games and more chances for non-conference games. If football were to be similar in its approach from a scheduling standpoint, I think there might be similar types of outcomes. It's definitely harder in football due to the number of players needed to field a team but we as NDSU fans know better than anyone that the difference between team 15 and 60 in the country isn't that big. There are a handful of teams and a handful of programs that are head and shoulders above the rest but beyond that there is more parity than the P5 want to admit so they game the system to keep it that way. It's harder for them to do that in basketball because that perception has been broken down by the NCAA tournament and the number of upsets that happen regularly. They are doing everything they can to maintain that perception in football.

[BigLakeBison]

Don't know if this will succeed long term or not. Will all the walmart fans of the top 30-50 schools keep them on prime time television with all the money being funneled their way?

If you listen to interviews with power conference presidents, ADs, and coaches - almost all of them say this is where things are going, and they are going all out to make the cut and not be left out. FSU is calling it an existential crisis for them to remain in the ACC with "only" $35-40m payouts. They are busy raising $200-300m so they can leave ACC and join SEC or B1G. Every school seems to see SEC/B1G as the final 2 life boats out.

They say it's where things are going because it's where their big money boosters want it to go and that's what lines their pocketbooks. It's not in any way visionary or rational or sustainable. I really hope that the people that are driving this receive some significant backlash if it plays out the way you describe.

[NDSU92]

Parity in basketball comes from the fact that there is more games and more chances for non-conference games. If football were to be similar in its approach from a scheduling standpoint, I think there might be similar types of outcomes. It's definitely harder in football due to the number of players needed to field a team but we as NDSU fans know better than anyone that the difference between team 15 and 60 in the country isn't that big. There are a handful of teams and a handful of programs that are head and shoulders above the rest but beyond that there is more parity than the P5 want to admit so they game the system to keep it that way. It's harder for them to do that in basketball because that perception has been broken down by the NCAA tournament and the number of upsets that happen regularly. They are doing everything they can to maintain that perception in football.

SDSU and FAU making the final four last year has nothing to do with # of non conference games and everything to do with the fact that all you need is 10 players, a coach and a gym to be a D1 basketball team. Football teams have more assistant coaches than basketball teams have players.

There are schools that have played for championship games in recent years that belong to schools that can’t field a football team.

Bringing it back to the topic at hand, for whatever reason the power schools are purposely wrecking college athletics so they can rebuild it to their liking.

[BigLakeBison]

SDSU and FAU making the final four last year has nothing to do with # of non conference games and everything to do with the fact that all you need is 10 players, a coach and a stadium to be a D1 basketball team. Football teams have more assistant coaches than basketball teams have players.

There are schools that have played for championship games in recent years that belong to schools that can’t field a football team.

I admitted that it is much easier to achieve parity in basketball than football in my previous email. However, the idea that the P5 and the G5 are miles apart in terms of on field performance is completely ridiculous. The Gophers have gotten back to respectability in recent years but they would likely struggle to win the MWC or AAC. However, in football there is this belief that the B1G is so far superior to the MWC or the AAC that the 3rd place team in the B1G West would absolutely dominate those conferences. It's just not true. Fans don't believe this bullshit with basketball because the non-conference and the NCAA tournament dispels that myth. In football the P5 power keeps those perceptions in place by limiting the opportunities the G5 have to ever dispel that myth. There are almost never G5 home vs. P5 away games. There are very few neutral site G5 vs. P5 games, even in the bowl season. The non-conference schedule is 4 games and that leaves very few interconference matchup opportunities between the P5 and G5, especially if the G5 wants to protect their bowl eligibility. And even with this control, the G5 routinely competes with and beats the P5. Maybe not the "elite" in the P5 but as I said in my previous email the difference between team #15 in the country and team #60 is not that large and there are numerous G5 teams that fill that 15-60 range. Yet the P5 would have you believe they are utterly incapable of putting up a fight and that we should limit the G5 access because they are inferior. Alabama and Georgia are different but they aren't the benchmark for who or why a team should be allowed in a playoff. Often times Alabama and Georgia are curb stomping members of their own conference. The entire thing is a masterful con job that plays into all of this realignment bullshit.

[NDSU92]

Sagarin basketball rankings: there are 9 teams outside the P5 in the top 25
Sagarin football rankings: #25 Tulane is the only non P5 team (besides ND) in the top 25

Remember that the G5 ain’t all that either in football. Most years in football we’d be the top or close to the top team. While being a mediocre P5 school.

[BigLakeBison]

Sagarin basketball rankings: there are 9 teams outside the P5 in the top 25
Sagarin football rankings: #25 Tulane is the only non P5 team (besides ND) in the top 25

Remember that the G5 ain’t all that either in football. Most years in football we’d be the top or close to the top team. While being a mediocre P5 school.

Is that because the P5 is that much better or because they have little to no opportunities to change that. NDSU not getting FBS-P5 games is not unique to us. The middling P5 teams aren’t seeking out games with the top of the G5. The myth is protected at all costs. Realignment is further protecting it and a full split makes it forever truth. The P5 has advantages and they are statistically better as a group but if given opportunities similar to basketball I think the results would be less skewed in their favor. It’s not outlandish to think that a 20 team football tournament with 10 conference champions and 10 at large selections would have upsets occur in the same proportion as they do within the basketball tournament. Reality is that there can only be 11 players on the field for each team at a time and even if the P5 team has more depth of talent on their roster top to bottom their top 11 can and will outperform the other teams top 11 in individual games.

[scottietohottie]

Are we fbs yet bros?

[TAILG8R]

Are we fbs yet bros?

Almost, Lakes just has a few more texts to send.

[IndyBison]

The cities and sponsors will do everything they can to preserve the bowls in some fashion, just too much money involved.
Benefits the schools and conferences as well, and fills TV time slots during the holidays.Except they'll be getting Iowa State and Maryland rather than Wisconsin and Texas A&M. And fewer people will be watching because more focus will be on the playoff games and may even be in st the same time. And the teams playing in those bowls will continue to have players opt out to prepare for the draft. It will be hard for bowls to continue with any size along with a playoff system. We are already seeing it with a 4-team playoff and it will only get worse when that expands.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[NDSUguy]

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...6157717504

If this is true, it basically is an admission that Stanford and Cal will be picking the rest of the conference. In this scenario, the AAC and MWC would likely lose a number of schools.

[NDSU92]

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...6157717504

If this is true, it basically is an admission that Stanford and Cal will be picking the rest of the conference. In this scenario, the AAC and MWC would likely lose a number of schools.

What did it say? Looks like it got deleted

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

What did it say? Looks like it got deleted

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1690131046157717504

I think the first version had a snarky comment about Stanford from OSU prez, but I might be mixing up tweets

I would say it looks like they will try to rebuild?

[BigHorns]

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1690131046157717504

I think the first version had a snarky comment about Stanford from OSU prez, but I might be mixing up tweets

I would say it looks like they will try to rebuild?

Seems that way, they’ve also hired Oliver Luck to be new commissioner type role. (Officially consultant for now)

https://x.com/jeffmedley13/status/1690508590249889792?s=46&t=IZ5o3UqObQhDgWeqSXZc2w

[Gully]

I see NDSU is hiring a bunch of creative / media types......they must be going FBS! LOL.

[El_Chapo]

I see NDSU is hiring a bunch of creative / media types......they must be going FBS! LOL.

well the ones that left all went FBS

[GCWaters]

Interesting article:

https://apple.news/AHccF-Ne9QiiY_3o7VZczPw

[El_Chapo]

on MWC board some Oregon Whacko proposed this.

BREAKING: Pacific American deal may be done in principal. Hard ball dealings at end. American will dissolve to pay NO exit fees, and 11 AAC teams will receive invites to the PAC. UNT, UAB, UTSA, Rice and FAU will receive lower shares to pay for SDSU, CSU & Boise for a 2025 start.

NDSU backfills MWC

[OrygunBison]

on MWC board some Oregon Whacko proposed this.

BREAKING: Pacific American deal may be done in principal. Hard ball dealings at end. American will dissolve to pay NO exit fees, and 11 AAC teams will receive invites to the PAC. UNT, UAB, UTSA, Rice and FAU will receive lower shares to pay for SDSU, CSU & Boise for a 2025 start.

NDSU backfills MWC

I just want to go on record to say that I had nothing to do with this.

[TAILG8R]

Posted this elsewhere but found it interesting and relevant to realignment.


Streaming appears to have reached its inflection point. According to new data released by Nielsen Research, linear TV viewership (cable + broadcast TV) accounted for less than 50% of all TV usage last month for the first time ever.

Per the data:

Broadcast and cable TV represented a record-low 49.6% of total TV usage in July. Compared to this time last year, broadcast viewing was down 5.4%, and cable viewing was down 12.5%.
On the flip side, streaming usage increased ~25% over the past year, and streaming services like YouTube and Netflix accounted for a record ~39% of total US TV usage in July (the category’s largest share reported to date).
And, like The Little Engine That Could, this trend is set to keep on going. By the end of 2025, cord cutters – defined as those without a TV subscription from a cable, satellite, or telco TV access provider – will comprise an estimated 72% of US households.

[Gully]

Posted this elsewhere but found it interesting and relevant to realignment.

I find this funny. Now that we're just about done destroying college sports to appease linear TV, linear TV now accounts for less than 1/2 of viewership.

[BigHorns]

I find this funny. Now that we're just about done destroying college sports to appease linear TV, linear TV now accounts for less than 1/2 of viewership.

We're lucky in a way to have both a local broadcast with WDAY and streaming with ESPN+

Hope where ever we land, we continue to have both "linear" and "streaming" ... otherwise it seems you miss out on 50% of the viewers.

[HerdBot]

Four AAC schools set to join the Pac-12 expansion as George Kliavkoff looks for a last-minute revival: Reports

https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/college-football/four-aac-schools-set-join-pac-12-expansion-george-kliavkoff-looks-last-minute-revival-reports

Makes sense. The AAC has some TV money though

[daddy daycare]

Four AAC schools set to join the Pac-12 expansion as George Kliavkoff looks for a last-minute revival: Reports

https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/college-football/four-aac-schools-set-join-pac-12-expansion-george-kliavkoff-looks-last-minute-revival-reports

Makes sense. The AAC has some TV money though

So what’s gonna happen here….PAC 4 and 4 AAC schools then poach a SDSU and Boise?

[El_Chapo]

So what’s gonna happen here….PAC 4 and 4 AAC schools then poach a SDSU and Boise?

if Pac 4 takes those AAC teams... AAC has openings.

in 2025 when MWC exit fees go down. SDSU BOISE FRESNO UNLV. go to Pac 12 as well making it 12.

should be 2 conferences looking to backfill and NDSU better get ready

[TAILG8R]

So what’s gonna happen here….PAC 4 and 4 AAC schools then poach a SDSU and Boise?

This is one scenario that I have seen. The other is that with 4(or more) schools leaving the AAC some think the whole conference might decide to join the PAC for a super conference.

Let's hope for the former.

[HerdBot]

if Pac 4 takes those AAC teams... AAC has openings.

in 2025 when MWC exit fees go down. SDSU BOISE FRESNO UNLV. go to Pac 12 as well making it 12.

should be 2 conferences looking to backfill and NDSU better get ready

Exactly.

Since the AAC has more to offer in TV revenue... probably a better choice for us in the short term

[BigHorns]

Exactly.

Since the AAC has more to offer in TV revenue... probably a better choice for us in the short term

No idea if this will change, but AAC has been paying the new members half of what MWC pays out.

Around $2.5m for new AAC members, the legacy members get $7m.
MWC pays everyone $4m.

Moving to AAC we'd have to come up with more cash, 500k over what we make now wouldn't offset the travel.

[BigHorns]

So what’s gonna happen here….PAC 4 and 4 AAC schools then poach a SDSU and Boise?

Everything I've seen is they plan to add 2-4 MWC schools afterwards to reduce the exit fee problem.
SDSU is presumed in, and likely at least one more. Could be Fresno instead of Boise, or maybe they take 4 and add someone like UNLV.
Others are in the mix too potentially, I've seen Air Force and CSU mentioned.

[HerdBot]

No idea if this will change, but AAC has been paying the new members half of what MWC pays out.

Around $2.5m for new AAC members, the legacy members get $7m.
MWC pays everyone $4m.

Moving to AAC we'd have to come up with more cash, 500k over what we make now wouldn't offset the travel.

Assuming the legacy teams are still around

[BigHorns]

This is one scenario that I have seen. The other is that with 4(or more) schools leaving the AAC some think the whole conference might decide to join the PAC for a super conference.

Let's hope for the former.

Worst case is that they do what that article suggests and use those 4 as leverage to dissolve the conference.
PAC then takes who they want, and the 3 or 4 leftovers scatter to other conferences and fill them up.

Just like we want PAC to survive, we also want AAC to survive.

[BigHorns]

Assuming the legacy teams are still around

If they aren't, the media deal is likely to get blown up and reduced.
They are already close to triggering a renegotiation with ESPN from what I've read.
Losing Houston, Cincinnati and UCF hurt them from a media value perspective.
If they lose a few more, the contract gets revisited.

[HerdBot]

If they aren't, the media deal is likely to get blown up and reduced.
They are already close to triggering a renegotiation with ESPN from what I've read.
Losing Houston, Cincinnati and UCF hurt them from a media value perspective.
If they lose a few more, the contract gets revisited.

Good point. Interested to see who is superior after all the gutting of the MW and AAC. You may see both teams fighting over what remains. Air Force could end up playing a significant role

[Gully]

Not that NDSU has the ability to choose or even influence this, but which option (MWC or AAC) do folks like best for NDSU? I would gladly take either, but if I could choose, I think I'm on team AAC.

[Gully]

Of course, I suppose it depends on which teams remain in both respective conferences. That would influence the answer.

[daddy daycare]

Not that NDSU has the ability to choose or even influence this, but which option (MWC or AAC) do folks like best for NDSU? I would gladly take either, but if I could choose, I think I'm on team AAC.

Going to be interesting to see where the dominoes fall for sure. AAC I I think would be best as well - from a consumer standpoint, travel and game times, etc. Obviously many other factors.

[El_Chapo]

Going to be interesting to see where the dominoes fall for sure. AAC I I think would be best as well - from a consumer standpoint, travel and game times, etc. Obviously many other factors.

NDSU into the AAC is an easier path for NDSU to the Big 12 in 5 years.. wink wink new stadium wink wink

[BigHorns]

Of course, I suppose it depends on which teams remain in both respective conferences. That would influence the answer.

Pretty much this and the media deal are the two biggest factors.

If AAC loses their top 6 or so, that conference starts to fall significantly below MWC in competition, prestige and payout.
Some rumors had up to 9-11 schools leaving.

Ideally we would want to join whichever conference is least "gutted" by the PAC.

[MWC]

Pretty much this and the media deal are the two biggest factors.

If AAC loses their top 6 or so, that conference starts to fall significantly below MWC in competition, prestige and payout.
Some rumors had up to 9-11 schools leaving.

Ideally we would want to join whichever conference is least "gutted" by the PAC.

Ideally, you would want to join the new Pac.

[Sun Bison]

Ideally, you would want to join the new Pac.

If we're talking like that then ideally we would want to join the B1G or at least the Big 12. I mean, if we're just daydreaming out here.

[NDSU92]

Wouldn’t the CAA raid the Sun Belt first before looking our direction? I always forget about the Sun Belt and where their media deal sits

[tony]

If we're talking like that then ideally we would want to join the B1G or at least the Big 12. I mean, if we're just daydreaming out here.

NDSU to the Ivy League if we're really dreaming.

[GreenfieldBison]

NDSU to the Ivy League if we're really dreaming.

They don't participate in the playoffs boss. Boooo.

[HerdBot]

Of course, I suppose it depends on which teams remain in both respective conferences. That would influence the answer.


Not that NDSU has the ability to choose or even influence this, but which option (MWC or AAC) do folks like best for NDSU? I would gladly take either, but if I could choose, I think I'm on team AAC.

It depends. If the AAC loses SMU, Memphis, Tulane and Navy... they might have to replace them with Conference USA teams like UTEP, Sam Houston and Jacksonville State

But if the MW loses Boise, San Diego State, Air Forcd and Colorado State

I think the wildcard could be if the Pac 12 can somehow poach a Sunbelt team like Marshall

Honestly the Pac 12 would look intruiging

[Sun Bison]

NDSU to the Ivy League if we're really dreaming.

Ivy League? More like Shmivy league! *BURN*

[NDSUstudent]

It depends. If the AAC loses SMU, Memphis, Tulane and Navy... they might have to replace them with Conference USA teams like UTEP, Sam Houston and Jacksonville State

But if the MW loses Boise, San Diego State, Air Forcd and Colorado State

I think the wildcard could be if the Pac 12 can somehow poach a Sunbelt team like Marshall

Honestly the Pac 12 would look intruiging

If the MWC takes NDSU, SDSU and the Montana schools it seems kind of like a slam dunk to me.

[MWC]

On a somewhat related note. Gloria Nevarez was on 365 sports today and she said that the sweet spot for the MW is 14 to 16 schools. That is a change in philosophy and clearly driven by all the stuff going on right now. The WAC 16 was such a mess the airport meeting created the MW. However, there is going to be a number of larger conference membership totals going forward.

To be sure, the MW would love to add OSU and Wazzu (though who knows if that will happen). Stanford ain't happening and Cal is likely a no as well.

But say the 2 northwest Pacific time zone schools were indeed added, the MW may certainly look east to balance out the mountain side a bit.

I do not know if your school would be interested or if the MW would be interested in you or even going to 16 but...maybe...

[HerdBot]

If the MWC takes NDSU, SDSU and the Montana schools it seems kind of like a slam dunk to me.

If any FBS conference would get those 4 teams, it would be a slam dunk. Even Conference USA

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

On a somewhat related note. Gloria Nevarez was on 365 sports today and she said that the sweet spot for the MW is 14 to 16 schools. That is a change in philosophy and clearly driven by all the stuff going on right now. The WAC 16 was such a mess the airport meeting created the MW. However, there is going to be a number of larger conference membership totals going forward.

To be sure, the MW would love to add OSU and Wazzu (though who knows if that will happen). Stanford ain't happening and Cal is likely a no as well.

But say the 2 northwest Pacific time zone schools were indeed added, the MW may certainly look east to balance out the mountain side a bit.

I do not know if your school would be interested or if the MW would be interested in you or even going to 16 but...maybe...

Of course we are
Good to see Gloria see the light. I think she's right

How does Aresco feel? Probably the same I would guess

Interesting if not unsettling times, and I say that as an NDSU fan who likes our odds going forward. I find the B1G particularly annoying for some reason

[MWC]

Some of today's take aways.

1. She’s firm on the $17 mil and $34 mil exit fees.
2. She knows just about all the decision makers of the PAC-4 well.
3. She thinks the MWC being at 14 or 16 schools (with 2 to 4 of the right added schools) to be the sweet spot right now.
4. Very open to taking Olympic Sports only members.
5. Our TV deal allows us to open up the deal when adding new members and can add them as pro-rata or negotiated at a higher than pro-rata amount.

For your case, the willingness to take olympic sports only might open the door for a football only invitation.

[TAILG8R]

Oregon State athletic director Scott Barnes on rebuilding the Pac-12: ‘That’s certainly our goal’ (https://theathletic.com/4784911/2023/08/17/oregon-state-pac-12-realignment/?source=freedailyemail&campaign=601983)


There may be one emerging end to that path, as Barnes expressed a desire to rebuild some version of the league that just fell apart. And, more importantly, a level of belief that the four teams left behind – Oregon State, Washington State, Cal and Stanford – could be the driving forces behind it, instead of taking an every-school-for-itself mentality.

“A real shot, but it won’t be without difficulty,” Barnes said. “But yes, I do emphatically believe that four of us, as foundational members, can build something back that is real, tangible, and sets the course for the future.”

[BigHorns]

It depends. If the AAC loses SMU, Memphis, Tulane and Navy... they might have to replace them with Conference USA teams like UTEP, Sam Houston and Jacksonville State

But if the MW loses Boise, San Diego State, Air Forcd and Colorado State

I think the wildcard could be if the Pac 12 can somehow poach a Sunbelt team like Marshall

Honestly the Pac 12 would look intruiging

Marshall seems highly unlikely to move to PAC, the academics wouldn't make Cal and Stanford happy. Marshall also relatively happy in SBC with nearby rivals. Marshall vs App St is a huge rivalry. Thus far, all the rumored PAC targets are a combination of AAC and MWC schools.

AAC most likely backfills if they get raided is a combination of CUSA and possibly one or two SBC teams.
Texas St and Georgia St are the schools most likely to move to AAC from SBC, though possible none do.

Current AAC member schools believe their media deal is going to be torn up and slashed if they lose the PAC targets.
They are still hoping they can add two or more of the PAC schools instead, though this is starting to look unlikely.
In the prior round, AAC was talking about adding B12 and MWC schools, and that didn't work at all.
Some are talking now about bailing to the SBC if it gets bad. Lots of moving parts here still.

[BigHorns]

If the MWC takes NDSU, SDSU and the Montana schools it seems kind of like a slam dunk to me.

This is one of the better (maybe best) outcomes in my mind.
Especially if MWC only lost one or two schools and could keep or improve the media deal.

Another factor with AAC is half those schools (the "legacy" ones) all want to leave. The conference you join there could change again within 2 years.
Top half of the AAC is strong today (before any departures), bottom half is below SBC and MAC.

[OrygunBison]

Another factor with AAC is half those schools (the "legacy" ones) all want to leave. The conference you join there could change again within 2 years.
Top half of the AAC is strong today (before any departures), bottom half is below SBC and MAC.

Adjacent to your point is the fact that the MAC is sitting right there, basically in our footprint (yeah, a stretch but not by as much as elsewhere) and once we join with SDSU, we'll help the conference take a step up. The MAC is also stable, which is nice.

As much as I'd like the Bison to be in the MWC so that I can easily travel to more games, today's MWC is not what tomorrow's will be. Also, the MAC is way better for recruiting given that moms and dads can travel better for multiple games.

[Gully]

Adjacent to your point is the fact that the MAC is sitting right there, basically in our footprint (yeah, a stretch but not by as much as elsewhere) and once we join with SDSU, we'll help the conference take a step up. The MAC is also stable, which is nice.

As much as I'd like the Bison to be in the MWC so that I can easily travel to more games, today's MWC is not what tomorrow's will be. Also, the MAC is way better for recruiting given that moms and dads can travel better for multiple games.

I doubt the MAC schools can afford the travel to the XDSUs.

[NDSU92]

Adjacent to your point is the fact that the MAC is sitting right there, basically in our footprint (yeah, a stretch but not by as much as elsewhere) and once we join with SDSU, we'll help the conference take a step up. The MAC is also stable, which is nice.

As much as I'd like the Bison to be in the MWC so that I can easily travel to more games, today's MWC is not what tomorrow's will be. Also, the MAC is way better for recruiting given that moms and dads can travel better for multiple games.

No MAC school is going to add the XDSU’s. It’s a bus conference.

[BigHorns]

Adjacent to your point is the fact that the MAC is sitting right there, basically in our footprint (yeah, a stretch but not by as much as elsewhere) and once we join with SDSU, we'll help the conference take a step up. The MAC is also stable, which is nice.

As much as I'd like the Bison to be in the MWC so that I can easily travel to more games, today's MWC is not what tomorrow's will be. Also, the MAC is way better for recruiting given that moms and dads can travel better for multiple games.

I still think MAC could make a lot of sense along with SDSU or a couple others.

A bit hard to know where everything lands, but by December timeframe it should be clear what the PAC schools are doing, and some of the cascade effects from that. A little patience could very likely open some doors, and maybe a couple different options for us.

From a conference standpoint, I don't really care as much about the brand, as which schools are there when we join, and how likely they are to stay a while. The membership is far more important than the brand they play under. The stronger the members are, the better.

[El_Chapo]

NDSU only!
no partners to MWC OR AAC is how NDSU gets better as a program and even moreso as an university!!

NDSU would stand apart from everyone in the region and further stamp their national status.

[runtheoption]

Somebody is having fun with this:

https://pac-4.com/

[KSBisonFan]

Somebody is having fun with this:

https://pac-4.com/

That's awesome. Love the schedule and watching a lemon cake baking video for Patreon supporters.

[heffray]

Somebody is having fun with this:

https://pac-4.com/

Oh that is fantastic.

[BigHorns]

Oh that is fantastic.

The OG version of this was even better, they must've got hit with a Cease and Desist notice on the logo, etc

https://web.archive.org/web/20230805152020/https://pac-4.com/

[El_Chapo]

OH BOY. we got a chance!!

If ACC can finish this deal (Cal/Stanford) then expect ESPN to push heavily for AAC to absorb the PAC2 and help fund further expansion that will gut the MWC.

[reformedUNDfan]

OH BOY. we got a chance!!

If ACC can finish this deal (Cal/Stanford) then expect ESPN to push heavily for AAC to absorb the PAC2 and help fund further expansion that will gut the MWC.

If the AAC absorbs WSU and OSU the game ends, and NDSU stays fcs

[daddy daycare]

If the AAC absorbs WSU and OSU the game ends, and NDSU stays fcs

Yeah I fail to see how that scenario is a good thing for NDSU. Wouldn't MWC just add WSU and Oregon State and be happy with west coast dominance?

[The_Sicatoka]

OH BOY. we got a chance!!

If ACC can finish this deal (Cal/Stanford) then expect ESPN to push heavily for AAC to absorb the PAC2 and help fund further expansion that will gut the MWC.

If (<- big IF) CaliStan goes ACC, the MWC will end up with WasSU/OrSU.

WasSU's budget is a trainwreck under with PAC media funding; they can't afford a four time zone conference on an AAC media budget.

[TAILG8R]

Yeah I fail to see how 2 of the PAC 4 getting absorbed helps NDSU at all. At that point the other 2 will get gobbled up and the carousel will stop for a while.

[NDSUguy]

Yeah I fail to see how 2 of the PAC 4 getting absorbed helps NDSU at all. At that point the other 2 will get gobbled up and the carousel will stop for a while.

If this were to happen, the only hope for NDSU is if the MWC or AAC were to try to steal from one another in hopes of securing it's spot as the highest rated G5. This battle (if it were to happen) would end in one of the conferences losing members in which case NDSU might be a good add.

[taper]

If this were to happen, the only hope for NDSU is if the MWC or AAC were to try to steal from one another in hopes of securing it's spot as the highest rated G5. This battle (if it were to happen) would end in one of the conferences losing members in which case NDSU might be a good add.
Exit fees make that effectively impossible. The difference in media deals is way too small to be worth that move.

[El_Chapo]

AAC would grab WSU/OSU and try and take Boise/Air Force/Colo St/UNLV

then MWC is left looking for FBS teams.

[TAILG8R]

AAC would grab WSU/OSU and try and take Boise/Air Force/Colo St/UNLV

then MWC is left looking for FBS teams.

Who is paying the MWC exit fees?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El_Chapo]

If American gets Oregon State and Wazzu, then look for SDSU and Boise + 1 more to accept invites for 2026 to become an 18 team league. 3rd spot probably between Fresno and Air Force. Will gut MWC and solidify American as the clear 5th best league. Only move OSU can make to be P5

[MWC]

If American gets Oregon State and Wazzu, then look for SDSU and Boise + 1 more to accept invites for 2026 to become an 18 team league. 3rd spot probably between Fresno and Air Force. Will gut MWC and solidify American as the clear 5th best league. Only move OSU can make to be P5

Is MHver your personal avatar?

[BigHorns]

If this were to happen, the only hope for NDSU is if the MWC or AAC were to try to steal from one another in hopes of securing it's spot as the highest rated G5. This battle (if it were to happen) would end in one of the conferences losing members in which case NDSU might be a good add.

Seems highly unlikely.

Last round, AAC tried to grab MWC schools and failed. They would have to get a MUCH better media deal than they have now for anyone to move. They would also have little motivation to expand past 16 imo.

CaliStan to ACC and OSU/WSU to AAC is not the outcome that works for us. If that happens, it could be years before the next move, that would likely finish this round, until something else happens at P4 level.

PAC-4 rebuild would be best outcome, followed by a MWC partial merger where some schools are left behind and rebuild MWC.

[BigHorns]

https://x.com/mhver3/status/1694720972958613916?s=46&t=IZ5o3UqObQhDgWeqSXZc2w

This is NOT great news if true.

What it suggests to me is ESPN is working to kill off the PAC rather than risk the PAC-4 grabbing AAC schools and forcing ESPN to consider bidding on PAC or lose that inventory.

ESPN likely has to pay more overall to maintain similar teams/inventory in the event AAC is raided, so it actually makes sense they may want to prevent this.

[tjamz]

So, here is my get NDSU to FBS fantasy scenario not based on anything relating to any sort of reality of actually happening:

The PAC4 decide they need to survive and they realize they cannot wait for the MWC teams to find the money to cover exit fees. Because of this they look to BYU as a name brand to bring on board since they are independent. That still leaves at least 4 openings, right? And with no MWC teams available at that time, they look to the best of the FCS in order to survive. Invites go out to MSU, UM, NDSU, SDSU, the OTHER SDSU, and maybe EWU/UTEP for the time being, with the plan to add MWC teams as soon as their media rights deal expires. That puts them at 10/11 teams, most of which won't be able to bail quickly and gives some semblance of safety net should Cal & Sanford jump ship and they now have at least 8/9 schools left in the conference & they hope to start bringing in other G5 schools (ideally MWC schools based on their footprint) with the goal of getting to 16 to 20 teams.

Again, not based on reality, but this is CFB we're talking about. Who really saw USC and UCLA leaving for the B1G? Weird shit happens.

[Big Bird]

So, here is my get NDSU to FBS fantasy scenario not based on anything relating to any sort of reality of actually happening:

The PAC4 decide they need to survive and they realize they cannot wait for the MWC teams to find the money to cover exit fees. Because of this they look to BYU as a name brand to bring on board since they are independent. That still leaves at least 4 openings, right? And with no MWC teams available at that time, they look to the best of the FCS in order to survive. Invites go out to MSU, UM, NDSU, SDSU, the OTHER SDSU, and maybe EWU/UTEP for the time being, with the plan to add MWC teams as soon as their media rights deal expires. That puts them at 10/11 teams, most of which won't be able to bail quickly and gives some semblance of safety net should Cal & Sanford jump ship and they now have at least 8/9 schools left in the conference & they hope to start bringing in other G5 schools (ideally MWC schools based on their footprint) with the goal of getting to 16 to 20 teams.

Again, not based on reality, but this is CFB we're talking about. Who really saw USC and UCLA leaving for the B1G? Weird shit happens.

BYU is no longer an independent, they're in the B12

[tjamz]

BYU is no longer an independent, they're in the B12

Shit, forgot that... My point still stands though 9 or 10 teams is a lot more stable than 4. It gives the PAC room to expand throughout the Midwest increasing their footprint and possibly luring other teams to join once the next shakeup happens.

[BigHorns]

So, here is my get NDSU to FBS fantasy scenario not based on anything relating to any sort of reality of actually happening:

The PAC4 decide they need to survive and they realize they cannot wait for the MWC teams to find the money to cover exit fees. Because of this they look to BYU as a name brand to bring on board since they are independent. That still leaves at least 4 openings, right? And with no MWC teams available at that time, they look to the best of the FCS in order to survive. Invites go out to MSU, UM, NDSU, SDSU, the OTHER SDSU, and maybe EWU/UTEP for the time being, with the plan to add MWC teams as soon as their media rights deal expires. That puts them at 10/11 teams, most of which won't be able to bail quickly and gives some semblance of safety net should Cal & Sanford jump ship and they now have at least 8/9 schools left in the conference & they hope to start bringing in other G5 schools (ideally MWC schools based on their footprint) with the goal of getting to 16 to 20 teams.

Again, not based on reality, but this is CFB we're talking about. Who really saw USC and UCLA leaving for the B1G? Weird shit happens.

Your dream scenario would be amazing if it could happen. It would certainly shock FBS if PAC rebuilt with FCS schools.

From Notre Dame AD comments, it looks like Cal and Stanford will be added to ACC, and PAC will die. Most unfortunate if this happens.

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1694397488118071613?s=20

[Big Bird]

Your dream scenario would be amazing if it could happen. It would certainly shock FBS if PAC rebuilt with FCS schools.

From Notre Dame AD comments, it looks like Cal and Stanford will be added to ACC, and PAC will die. Most unfortunate if this happens.

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1694397488118071613?s=20

I've seen SMU to the ACC too. The big selling point for all three to the conference is partial to no payouts. I've seen Stanford/Cal would be getting around a 1/3 or 1/4 payout for a while SMU is willing to take NO TV deal payouts for up to 7 years.

Theses additions would trigger the ESPN TV deal to pay pro rata for the new members, and with each of the newcomers taking way less or no money, the extra ~$75 mil would get divided up between current members. The top of the ACC has been clamoring for football performance and viewership to drive revenue distribution and I would bet a good chunk of the extra money would go towards some incentive program.

[NDSU92]

I've seen SMU to the ACC too. The big selling point for all three to the conference is partial to no payouts. I've seen Stanford/Cal would be getting around a 1/3 or 1/4 payout for a while SMU is willing to take NO TV deal payouts for up to 7 years.

Theses additions would trigger the ESPN TV deal to pay pro rata for the new members, and with each of the newcomers taking way less or no money, the extra ~$75 mil would get divided up between current members. The top of the ACC has been clamoring for football performance and viewership to drive revenue distribution and I would bet a good chunk of the extra money would go towards some incentive program.

At some point it just seems wild to me. SMU admitting it’s so desperate and that it brings nothing to the conference that it won’t take any TV money? Doesn’t that set off alarm bells that “maybe you’re too good for her bro?” lol

Lot of teams signing up for a forever contract without getting paid what they should. Not going to end well. At the end of the day it’s in the conference’s best interest to allow its programs to have a chance to be successful.

If I was a president/AD I would call that bluff in a second. You’re there to compete on an equal playing field or you’ll find somewhere else to do it. Hell no to being a second class citizen in your own conference.

[tjamz]

Your dream scenario would be amazing if it could happen. It would certainly shock FBS if PAC rebuilt with FCS schools.

From Notre Dame AD comments, it looks like Cal and Stanford will be added to ACC, and PAC will die. Most unfortunate if this happens.

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1694397488118071613?s=20

I still argue that there is no reason (in my fantasy world) that the PAC couldn't try to survive using my scenario above. More realistic is that WSU and OSU will join the MWC

[El_Chapo]

At some point it just seems wild to me. SMU admitting it’s so desperate and that it brings nothing to the conference that it won’t take any TV money? Doesn’t that set off alarm bells that “maybe you’re too good for her bro?” lol

Lot of teams signing up for a forever contract without getting paid what they should. Not going to end well. At the end of the day it’s in the conference’s best interest to allow its programs to have a chance to be successful.

If I was a president/AD I would call that bluff in a second. You’re there to compete on an equal playing field or you’ll find somewhere else to do it. Hell no to being a second class citizen in your own conference.

NDSU could EASILY do this with the MWC or AAC as well.

NDSU could say "hey let us join, but we keep our LOCAL TV setup and only take 50% of your TV money"

[BigHorns]

NDSU could EASILY do this with the MWC or AAC as well.

NDSU could say "hey let us join, but we keep our LOCAL TV setup and only take 50% of your TV money"

You're asking for a Boise St style deal, and its unlikely we have the leverage to do that. MWC doesn't like it, it helps Boise.

It works for SMU because they bring the Dallas media market to ACC, which greatly improves the ACC network payout by many millions.
And ... they agreed to take no payout, not even a local broadcast. They are providing all their media rights for FREE. They get nothing.
On top of that they have the academic prestige ACC wants.

SMU can do this because they have HUGE piles of cash ($2 billion) to play with, and are thinking 10 years down the road. Same situation with Stanford looking at taking a reduced payout.

[bisonaudit]

At some point it just seems wild to me. SMU admitting it’s so desperate and that it brings nothing to the conference that it won’t take any TV money? Doesn’t that set off alarm bells that “maybe you’re too good for her bro?” lol

Lot of teams signing up for a forever contract without getting paid what they should. Not going to end well. At the end of the day it’s in the conference’s best interest to allow its programs to have a chance to be successful.

If I was a president/AD I would call that bluff in a second. You’re there to compete on an equal playing field or you’ll find somewhere else to do it. Hell no to being a second class citizen in your own conference.

That’s great, just don’t expect Clemson and FSU to be there when you arrive.

[BigHorns]

I still argue that there is no reason (in my fantasy world) that the PAC couldn't try to survive using my scenario above. More realistic is that WSU and OSU will join the MWC

You are correct that it could be viable. The problem is those schools would view associating themselves with FCS schools as catastrophic. All 4 have been doing everything they can to keep the P5 status/label, and will only accept G5 membership as a last resort. That's why you see Cal and Stanford going all out on ACC. They even hired people like ex-president George Bush, etc to lobby for them.

If Cal/Stan can't get invited to ACC or Big12, then there is a chance the PAC 4 attempt to rebuild rather than join a G5. That would create the best cascade scenario/openings for us.

[Gully]

Well, if the MWC or AAC don't work out, I think I'm finally on board for Conference USA for football only. They just have to do something or they're going to lose the little of the momentum that is left. Bohl used to cite the quote of either being green and growing or ripe and dying. The program is no longer growing.

The competition isn't much of an upgrade from the Valley really but it would be FBS and might open the door to P4 money games. They would then be positioned well if the P4 end up completely breaking off to be at the FBS playoff level, which would really be where they belong.

I'm watching UTEP and Jack State now and it looks like JSU has a pretty cool setup (and I think they're still working on it).

As a fan would have some different road trips and matchups at least.

[MWC]

Pretty good article about the OSU/Wazzu situation.

Still a lot of stuff to be decided.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/oregon-state-washington-state-not-expected-to-decide-conference-fate-until-around-labor-day/

[tjamz]

You are correct that it could be viable. The problem is those schools would view associating themselves with FCS schools as catastrophic. All 4 have been doing everything they can to keep the P5 status/label, and will only accept G5 membership as a last resort. That's why you see Cal and Stanford going all out on ACC. They even hired people like ex-president George Bush, etc to lobby for them.

If Cal/Stan can't get invited to ACC or Big12, then there is a chance the PAC 4 attempt to rebuild rather than join a G5. That would create the best cascade scenario/openings for us.Chapo, gather your harem of grandma's and get on this!

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[AKBison]

NDSU could EASILY do this with the MWC or AAC as well.

NDSU could say "hey let us join, but we keep our LOCAL TV setup and only take 50% of your TV money"

It's an interesting thought. I wonder if a deal could be structured to get us into the AAC where we take a quarter share or less for x amount of years. As long as we could retain statewide TV rights for home broadcasting, maybe it could be done. I'm pretty sure the new AAC schools (UNT, UTSA,Rice, UAB, Charlotte, FAU) are only pulling 2.5 million in rights compared to 7 million for the legacy members.

[THEsocalledfan]

Well, if the MWC or AAC don't work out, I think I'm finally on board for Conference USA for football only. They just have to do something or they're going to lose the little of the momentum that is left. Bohl used to cite the quote of either being green and growing or ripe and dying. The program is no longer growing.

The competition isn't much of an upgrade from the Valley really but it would be FBS and might open the door to P4 money games. They would then be positioned well if the P4 end up completely breaking off to be at the FBS playoff level, which would really be where they belong.

I'm watching UTEP and Jack State now and it looks like JSU has a pretty cool setup (and I think they're still working on it).

As a fan would have some different road trips and matchups at least.

I go back and forth on the Conference USA deal. Would Tue and Wed game keep us growing? I just don't think so when fan travel to games is huge for NDSU.

[Gully]

I go back and forth on the Conference USA deal. Would Tue and Wed game keep us growing? I just don't think so when fan travel to games is huge for NDSU.

Not ideal, for sure. Are they all on Tue and Wed?

[Professor Chaos]

In Jacksonville State's first game hosting a real FBS program in UTEP they drew just under 18k fans to their 24,000 seat stadium yesterday. That's just below their 2022 average (playing an ASUN/FCS schedule) and well below their heyday in 2015 when they averaged over 20k. They can't even use Auburn or Alabama as an excuse since neither played.

I don't think going FBS is going to be the automatic cure for NDSU football's slumping attendance. It would help I'm sure but it's also well within the realm of possibility that we never see the demand from the early to mid 2010s again even in the FBS.

[HerdBot]

I go back and forth on the Conference USA deal. Would Tue and Wed game keep us growing? I just don't think so when fan travel to games is huge for NDSU.

Tuesday Wednesday games are gross. Maybe 1 game I could stomach but 99% of people working until 5. Tailgating would be dead

[MWC]

It's an interesting thought. I wonder if a deal could be structured to get us into the AAC where we take a quarter share or less for x amount of years. As long as we could retain statewide TV rights for home broadcasting, maybe it could be done. I'm pretty sure the new AAC schools (UNT, UTSA,Rice, UAB, Charlotte, FAU) are only pulling 2.5 million in rights compared to 7 million for the legacy members.

I do think a deal like that could work. Hawaii has a similar deal for football only in the MW.

The key is "what's in it for the conference you wish to join?" I am only talking money wise. Do the other schools have to come out of pocket even a little to make it happen? Do you have to chip in some of your home broadcasting revenue to make it work?

Will ESPN kick in a little more dough to make it work. Will that work for all sports, including your extra travel expense? Will you pay a travel subsidy?

[El_Chapo]

Tuesday Wednesday games are gross. Maybe 1 game I could stomach but 99% of people working until 5. Tailgating would be dead

stop with the TUES/WED STRAWMAN BULLSHIT its only the MAC that plays those. NDSU will never goto the MAC

and with CUSA looks like 1 or 2 https://conferenceusa.com/news/2023/5/31/c-usa-announces-broadcast-schedule-for-2023-football-season.aspx

But both CUSA/MAC get the whole nation on ESPN on a Tuesday or Wednesday Night I guess.

(BUT NDSU ALREADY SAID NO TO CUSA & wont got MAC so this point / argument is MOOT)

/End Story

[MWC]

stop with the TUES/WED STRAWMAN BULLSHIT its only the MAC that plays those. NDSU will never goto the MAC

and with CUSA looks like 1 or 2 https://conferenceusa.com/news/2023/5/31/c-usa-announces-broadcast-schedule-for-2023-football-season.aspx

But both CUSA/MAC get the whole nation on ESPN on a Tuesday or Wednesday Night I guess.

(BUT NDSU ALREADY SAID NO TO CUSA & wont got MAC so this point / argument is MOOT)

/End Story

The AAC does play Thursday football games. Pretty much 1 every week. Were you in the league you have a good chance of missing that most years..

[HerdBot]

stop with the TUES/WED STRAWMAN BULLSHIT its only the MAC that plays those. NDSU will never goto the MAC

and with CUSA looks like 1 or 2 https://conferenceusa.com/news/2023/5/31/c-usa-announces-broadcast-schedule-for-2023-football-season.aspx

But both CUSA/MAC get the whole nation on ESPN on a Tuesday or Wednesday Night I guess.

(BUT NDSU ALREADY SAID NO TO CUSA & wont got MAC so this point / argument is MOOT)

/End Story

19 games on weekdays for a conference that only had 10 teams. None of the weekday games are on ESPN. 3 on ESPN2. 6 are on ESPNU. 10 are on CBS Sports Metwork

There are 3 total Saturday games conference wide on ESPN or ESPN2. 7 on CBS Sports Net. The rest are ESPN+

CBS SPORTS NETWORK

Thu 9/28 Middle Tennessee @ WKU 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET
Fri 9/29 Louisiana Tech @ UTEP 8:00 p.m. CT/9:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/4 FIU @ New Mexico State 8:00 p.m. CT/9:00 p.m. ET
Thu 10/5 Sam Houston @ Liberty 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Tue 10/10 Louisiana Tech @ Middle Tennessee 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/11 Sam Houston @ New Mexico State 8:00 p.m. CT/9:00 p.m. ET
Tue 10/17 Middle Tennessee @ Liberty 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/18 FIU @ Sam Houston 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Tue 10/24 New Mexico State @ Louisiana Tech 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/25 Jacksonville State @ FIU 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET


ESPN2
Wed 10/11 UTEP @ FIU 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET
Wed 10/18 New Mexico State @ UTEP 8:00 p.m. CT/9:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/25 UTEP @ Sam Houston 7:00 p.m. CT/8:00 p.m. ET

ESPNU
Thu 9/28 Jacksonville State @ Sam Houston 7:00 p.m. CT/8:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/4 Jacksonville State @ Middle Tennessee 7:00 p.m. CT/8:00 p.m. ET
Thu 10/5 WKU @ Louisiana Tech 7:00 p.m. CT/8:00 p.m. ET
Tue 10/10 Liberty @ Jacksonville State 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET
Tue 10/17 WKU @ Jacksonville State 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET
Tue 10/24 Liberty @ WKU 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET

[BigHorns]

19 games on weekdays for a conference that only had 10 teams. None of the weekday games are on ESPN. 3 on ESPN2. 6 are on ESPNU. 10 are on CBS Sports Metwork

There are 3 total Saturday games conference wide on ESPN or ESPN2. 7 on CBS Sports Net. The rest are ESPN+

CBS SPORTS NETWORK

Thu 9/28 Middle Tennessee @ WKU 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET
Fri 9/29 Louisiana Tech @ UTEP 8:00 p.m. CT/9:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/4 FIU @ New Mexico State 8:00 p.m. CT/9:00 p.m. ET
Thu 10/5 Sam Houston @ Liberty 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Tue 10/10 Louisiana Tech @ Middle Tennessee 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/11 Sam Houston @ New Mexico State 8:00 p.m. CT/9:00 p.m. ET
Tue 10/17 Middle Tennessee @ Liberty 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/18 FIU @ Sam Houston 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Tue 10/24 New Mexico State @ Louisiana Tech 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/25 Jacksonville State @ FIU 6:00 p.m. CT/7:00 p.m. ET


ESPN2
Wed 10/11 UTEP @ FIU 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET
Wed 10/18 New Mexico State @ UTEP 8:00 p.m. CT/9:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/25 UTEP @ Sam Houston 7:00 p.m. CT/8:00 p.m. ET

ESPNU
Thu 9/28 Jacksonville State @ Sam Houston 7:00 p.m. CT/8:00 p.m. ET
Wed 10/4 Jacksonville State @ Middle Tennessee 7:00 p.m. CT/8:00 p.m. ET
Thu 10/5 WKU @ Louisiana Tech 7:00 p.m. CT/8:00 p.m. ET
Tue 10/10 Liberty @ Jacksonville State 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET
Tue 10/17 WKU @ Jacksonville State 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET
Tue 10/24 Liberty @ WKU 6:30 p.m. CT/7:30 p.m. ET


Basically 50% of all CUSA games are midweek now.

Each school plays at least 4 midweek games. Last week of September and all of October is midweek.
Believe MAC does this in November instead.

[bruinbison]

Basically 50% of all CUSA games are midweek now.

Each school plays at least 4 midweek games. Last week of September and all of October is midweek.
Believe MAC does this in November instead.

So Chapo’s hissy fit “TUES/WED STRAWMAN BULLSHIT”
reply is “lacking in accuracy”?
Plus the ESPN throw-in…
:rofl:

Kinda like how he was just a few weeks off on the Mountain West schedules…

[BigHorns]

Pretty good article about the OSU/Wazzu situation.

Still a lot of stuff to be decided.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/oregon-state-washington-state-not-expected-to-decide-conference-fate-until-around-labor-day/

OSU/WSU aren't going to make a move until they see what happens with Cal and Stanford.
Cal and Stanford meanwhile are going to do everything they can to get into ACC or B12.

Supposedly they are one vote shy of getting into ACC, so the focus for now is flipping one vote there.
FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC St are the no votes.

This could all take more time to play out, especially to see the G5 cascade.
I'm thinking by around December timeframe things should decided. By then all the schools will want a plan, because time starts to work against them for recruiting, media deals, and everything else.

An interesting question is how long will Cal and Stanford keep trying to flip a vote if it stays deadlocked?
If they can't join another P4, then rebuilding the PAC becomes an option, if enough time for that remains.
At least 6-10 G5 schools applied to be PAC members, before the shit hit the fan.

[BigHorns]

Seems like the B12 rumors have been debunked. https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1695785163085447291?s=20

That means it's likely ACC, rebuild PAC, or go Indy for Cal and Stanford.
I don't think their pride will let them join a G5, and those 2 could possibly have near Notre Dame status as Indy.

[HerdBot]

Basically 50% of all CUSA games are midweek now.

Each school plays at least 4 midweek games. Last week of September and all of October is midweek.
Believe MAC does this in November instead.


Jaxksonville State and Sam Houston play 5 mid week, 2 at home

EEvery team has minimum of 4 games mid week, 2 at home

Start times are typically between 6-8 pm

Home schedule is mostly 12 games. This could make midweek games a box score. Who would travel mid week?

So the biggest benefit would be more visible road games

[MWC]

Michael Silver
@MikeSilver
·
3h
It looks increasingly likely that Cal, Stanford and SMU and the ACC will close a deal to bring those three schools to the conference, in all sports in which the ACC competes

Silver is a reputable reporter from the San Francisco Chronicle

[El_Chapo]

Michael Silver
@MikeSilver
·
3h
It looks increasingly likely that Cal, Stanford and SMU and the ACC will close a deal to bring those three schools to the conference, in all sports in which the ACC competes

Silver is a reputable reporter from the San Francisco Chronicle


WSU/OSU to the MWC put them at 13 members

NDSU for team #14 (or add NDSU and 2 others from the south) to get to 16 and have 8 and 8 per division

[MWC]

WSU/OSU to the MWC put them at 13 members

NDSU for team #14 (or add NDSU and 2 others from the south) to get to 16 and have 8 and 8 per division

WSU/OSU would make 14 for football. 13 for all other sports..

[MWC]

"https://sports360az.com/2023/08/wilner-all-about-washington-state-and-oregon-state-from-the-pac-2-and-a-reverse-merger-with-the-mw-to-the-bylaws-and-war-chest/amp/"

[HerdBot]

WSU/OSU to the MWC put them at 13 members

NDSU for team #14 (or add NDSU and 2 others from the south) to get to 16 and have 8 and 8 per division

But the AAC will be down 1 and arguably their best team. Who do they raid to get back to 14?

[Professor Chaos]

Stanford and Cal to the Atlantic Coast Conference. All the sharks have now been jumped by this effed up realignment carousel.

[heffray]

Stanford and Cal to the Atlantic Coast Conference. All the sharks have now been jumped by this effed up realignment carousel.

Time to rename the shit out of these conferences… here’s some ideas to start, any conference can take any of these:

Superfantastic Conference
Awesomesauce Conference
Real Cool Conference
Razzle Dazzle Conference

…you’re welcome.

[BigHorns]

Stanford and Cal to the Atlantic Coast Conference. All the sharks have now been jumped by this effed up realignment carousel.

They should call themselves the Athletic Coastal Conference ... or the "Coastal Athletic Association" ha

[Professor Chaos]

They should call themselves the Athletic Coastal Conference ... or the "Coastal Athletic Association" ha
One thing I learned recently is that the CAA is actually called the Coastal Athletic Association - not sure when it happened since I always remember them being the Colonial Athletic Association but that's the official name (link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Athletic_Association)) now and most of us don't even notice because they're usually referred to as the CAA regardless.

[The_Sicatoka]

Still smoke in the CaliStan and SMU to the ACC chimney.
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1696134229665472642?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1696134229665472642%7Ctwgr% 5E4f9a208295582b7ee72bb6c1a5961ec1a5c428f1%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-975988.html

The thread talks about how by not taking full shares the ACC will have left over pro rata dollars to create a "success initiative" fund.

[The_Sicatoka]

One thing I learned recently is that the CAA is actually called the Coastal Athletic Association - not sure when it happened since I always remember them being the Colonial Athletic Association but that's the official name (link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Athletic_Association)) now and most of us don't even notice because they're usually referred to as the CAA regardless.

You're correct twice. Colonial recently changed to Coastal.

[The_Sicatoka]

Interesting rationale on why the ACC may add CaliStan and SMU: 15

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1696177272254812574?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1696177272254812574%7Ctwgr% 5Eb8fb7286be399b992c5682d8d9854bae91943f9e%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-975988-post-19103553.htmlpid19103553

[BigHorns]

Not sure how many other FBS proponents here actually watch those games.

NMSU made UMass look like a powerhouse
UTEP vs JSU gameplay was sloppy and just sad, on both sides of the ball.

This was JSU's first FBS game, and they squeaked out a win at home, in a nearly empty stadium.

The "new" CUSA is starting off like the total shitfest everyone knew it would be.

[AKBison]

WSU/OSU would make 14 for football. 13 for all other sports..

This could actually work out well for us. A MWC that is dominated by western Land grants is the perfect forever home for NDSU. Due to the way that realignment is shaking out, it looks like the MWC is going to get Oregon State and Washington State and will be together for the long haul. It gives NDSU a real long term goal and something to aspire to. Especially if we go in with Montana, Montana State and SDSU. The truth is that none of us are ready to make that jump though. We need to get our facilities up to a high G5 level, move up to CUSA and take our lumps, prove that we belong and can fund athletics at the FBS level. If we do all that successfully, we will eventually get that MWC invite. Gene Taylor will die a happy man.

[daddy daycare]

This could actually work out well for us. A MWC that is dominated by western Land grants is the perfect forever home for NDSU. Due to the way that realignment is shaking out, it looks like the MWC is going to get Oregon State and Washington State and will be together for the long haul. It gives NDSU a real long term goal and something to aspire to. Especially if we go in with Montana, Montana State and SDSU. The truth is that none of us are ready to make that jump though. We need to get our facilities up to a high G5 level, move up to CUSA and take our lumps, prove that we belong and can fund athletics at the FBS level. If we do all that successfully, we will eventually get that MWC invite. Gene Taylor will die a happy man.

taking lumps and the CUSA don't really belong in the same sentence regarding NDSU.

[Professorbum]

taking lumps and the CUSA don't really belong in the same sentence regarding NDSU.

I don't know about this year's team, but last year's team would have been rolled by the top two or three teams in CUSA. And please, no one give me "but Sagarin." We looked exactly like an FCS team last year. The top CUSA teams looked like FBS teams.

[Professorbum]

This could actually work out well for us. A MWC that is dominated by western Land grants is the perfect forever home for NDSU. Due to the way that realignment is shaking out, it looks like the MWC is going to get Oregon State and Washington State and will be together for the long haul. It gives NDSU a real long term goal and something to aspire to. Especially if we go in with Montana, Montana State and SDSU. The truth is that none of us are ready to make that jump though. We need to get our facilities up to a high G5 level, move up to CUSA and take our lumps, prove that we belong and can fund athletics at the FBS level. If we do all that successfully, we will eventually get that MWC invite. Gene Taylor will die a happy man.

No longer an option. Guys... its. over.

[scottietohottie]

No longer an option. Guys... its. over.

Second best team in the fcs ain't bad eh

[taper]

I don't know about this year's team, but last year's team would have been rolled by the top two or three teams in CUSA. And please, no one give me "but Sagarin." We looked exactly like an FCS team last year. The top CUSA teams looked like FBS teams.

That was the old CUSA. The top teams left and it's now basically the Southland 2.0. WKU and MTSU probably regret not taking that MAC invite. Give us the extra scholarships and an OC that knows the forward pass is legal and we roll everyone there. Definitely a downgrade.

[MWC]

CUSA members just signed a GOR for I believe 5 more years. Their tv deal is 800 grand per member. The GOR in essence means it could cost as much as 4 million bucks in exit fees.

[The_Sicatoka]

" ... SMU by morning ... "

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-acc-presidents-to-meet-on-conference-expansion-on-monday-night-173527541.html

[NDSU92]

Time to go the St Thomas route and bully our way out of FCS

[daddy daycare]

Time to go the St Thomas route and bully our way out of FCS

I thought it was the MIAC bullying them out. To their credit they responded with an unbelievable KO punch.

[TAILG8R]

Welp, here's to waiting for another FBS shakeup in 2-3 years.

[HerdBot]

" ... SMU by morning ... "

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-acc-presidents-to-meet-on-conference-expansion-on-monday-night-173527541.html

That puts the AAC at 13. Maybe we could be 14. Geography apparently doesnt matter anymore

[Gully]

That puts the AAC at 13. Maybe we could be 14. Geography apparently doesnt matter anymore

Are we talking AAC or ACC?

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

This could actually work out well for us. A MWC that is dominated by western Land grants is the perfect forever home for NDSU. Due to the way that realignment is shaking out, it looks like the MWC is going to get Oregon State and Washington State and will be together for the long haul. It gives NDSU a real long term goal and something to aspire to. Especially if we go in with Montana, Montana State and SDSU. The truth is that none of us are ready to make that jump though. We need to get our facilities up to a high G5 level, move up to CUSA and take our lumps, prove that we belong and can fund athletics at the FBS level. If we do all that successfully, we will eventually get that MWC invite. Gene Taylor will die a happy man.
Our facilities are already at upper G5 levels, heck our practice facility is better than some P5!

[BigHorns]

Our facilities are already at upper G5 levels, heck our practice facility is better than some P5!

Suspect he's referring to stadium capacity, everything else is there. Stadium is fine for most conferences as well.

If you actually watch CUSA and MAC games, our attendance tops many of those games already, regardless of what they report to meet the FBS requirement.

And if you watch any CUSA games, its also clear we wouldn't be taking any "lumps" there. SDSU and NDSU are better than any team in that league. NMSU looked pathetic against bottom dweller UMass. Problem is, nobody would care if we dominated that conference, and they have no shot at CFP because the teams are so weak. Plus, now there's a 5 year GoR lock in. We'd be better off waiting for the next round of shuffling in 2 years if we don't get an opening now.

[HerdBot]

Suspect he's referring to stadium capacity, everything else is there. Stadium is fine for most conferences as well.

If you actually watch CUSA and MAC games, our attendance tops many of those games already, regardless of what they report to meet the FBS requirement.

And if you watch any CUSA games, its also clear we wouldn't be taking any "lumps" there. SDSU and NDSU are better than any team in that league. NMSU looked pathetic against bottom dweller UMass. Problem is, nobody would care if we dominated that conference, and they have no shot at CFP because the teams are so weak. Plus, now there's a 5 year GoR lock in. We'd be better off waiting for the next round of shuffling in 2 years if we don't get an opening now.

Our capacity is fine but we need the proposed dome upgrades to pass this December to look upper tier. We also need the high dollar club seats the proposal will provide.

[BigHorns]

Our capacity is fine but we need the proposed dome upgrades to pass this December to look upper tier. We also need the high dollar club seats the proposal will provide.

Agree, that proposal looks like a winner to me. Improves the amenities for everyone, and will improve stadium revenues too. Need to get that done.

[AKBison]

Our facilities are already at upper G5 levels, heck our practice facility is better than some P5!


Have you been to the SHAC? I am grateful that we have it but it is no where near upper G5 and is not even in the top half of the Summit. The MWC and AAC are overall better basketball conferences then they are football and to get into one of those leagues, we will have to move basketball out of its low major status. That starts with facilities.

[MWC]

I think your facilities are first rate. That will certainly help you going forward in FCS and if you move up to FBS. Your location hurts the cause a bit but is not insurmountable the way conferences are going these days. They are spreading out all over. The key, like almost everything else, is money. You have enough to compete and you can increase your revenue. That is great for NDSU. However, the question remains. Are ESPN (AAC) or CBS/Fox (MW) willing to bump up their tv deals to absorb you into either conference? If they are not, you may have to be very creative.

[BigHorns]

Have you been to the SHAC? I am grateful that we have it but it is no where near upper G5 and is not even in the top half of the Summit. The MWC and AAC are overall better basketball conferences then they are football and to get into one of those leagues, we will have to move basketball out of its low major status. That starts with facilities.

Have you seen FAU's arena? Seating for 2,900. 35-4, Final Four team.

https://fausports.com/sports/2018/5/25/facilities-fau-arena-html.aspx

https://cbs12.com/resources/media/a0ecaf21-5c64-4823-b132-236dd41a022d-medium16x9_FAUPhotos3.jpg?1679689862322

http://www.trbimg.com/img-51913fd2/turbine/sfl-faus-new-basketball-court-design-20130513/599/599x259

As much as I'd like to see us replace the SHAC, thats not the obstacle. Success with coaching/winning is what really matters.
Guess you could argue a new arena might attract better players.

They do have a 30k football stadium that is pretty decent.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Have you been to the SHAC? I am grateful that we have it but it is no where near upper G5 and is not even in the top half of the Summit. The MWC and AAC are overall better basketball conferences then they are football and to get into one of those leagues, we will have to move basketball out of its low major status. That starts with facilities.
We need to consistently fill the SHAC before we can even think about upgrading that facility. Heck if we need a bigger venue we can use the Fargo dome for BB

[daddy daycare]

I think your facilities are first rate. That will certainly help you going forward in FCS and if you move up to FBS. Your location hurts the cause a bit but is not insurmountable the way conferences are going these days. They are spreading out all over. The key, like almost everything else, is money. You have enough to compete and you can increase your revenue. That is great for NDSU. However, the question remains. Are ESPN (AAC) or CBS/Fox (MW) willing to bump up their tv deals to absorb you into either conference? If they are not, you may have to be very creative.

Not as much spreading out for G5 conferences.

[tjamz]

Not ideal, for sure. Are they all on Tue and Wed?

The fact that you (and I) have to ask this tells me all I need to know about CUSA. They're only slightly more relevant than MVFC. I mean, maybe they are a short term landing spot, but I'm not sure there's a conference that would pick us up in the future that isn't interested in picking us up now. I think it's far more likely that the FBS P5 consolidates into 4 super conferences with 20 teams each (and only play each other) and then the G5 starts looking at upper tier FCS schools in an attempt to remain somewhat relevant. Especially in the era of NIL and Transfer Portal.

The best bet is probably to embrace the idea that we will likely be a development program for P5 schools, giving fringe P5 athletes a chance to shine early on rather than ride the bench or be perpetually buried in a depth chart. The theory would be that by openly embracing that you would attract a higher level athlete to your program for 1 to 3 years which would theoretically result in a dominant performance year in and year out. Perhaps by showing we can and do produce top tier athletes that can lead to a potential invite as conferences and the league evolve. It' not what I *want* for NDSU or college sports, but what I want (MWC invite or my hypothetical PAC rebuild invite) has very little to do with the current reality.

[AKBison]

Have you seen FAU's arena? Seating for 2,900. 35-4, Final Four team.

https://fausports.com/sports/2018/5/25/facilities-fau-arena-html.aspx

https://cbs12.com/resources/media/a0ecaf21-5c64-4823-b132-236dd41a022d-medium16x9_FAUPhotos3.jpg?1679689862322

http://www.trbimg.com/img-51913fd2/turbine/sfl-faus-new-basketball-court-design-20130513/599/599x259

As much as I'd like to see us replace the SHAC, thats not the obstacle. Success with coaching/winning is what really matters.
Guess you could argue a new arena might attract better players.

They do have a 30k football stadium that is pretty decent.

FAU has three things we don't, location, location, location. I do 100% agree on one thing, I would much rather us spend some serious cash to fund the basketball program at a mid major level over spending a dime on facilities. Finding the cash for a coach and NIL payments would do more for Bison basketball and our future FBS prospects than anything else. I just don't see that happening right now though. Money is tight and we seem pretty content with making the Summit league finals.

[Gully]

The fact that you (and I) have to ask this tells me all I need to know about CUSA. They're only slightly more relevant than MVFC. I mean, maybe they are a short term landing spot, but I'm not sure there's a conference that would pick us up in the future that isn't interested in picking us up now. I think it's far more likely that the FBS P5 consolidates into 4 super conferences with 20 teams each (and only play each other) and then the G5 starts looking at upper tier FCS schools in an attempt to remain somewhat relevant. Especially in the era of NIL and Transfer Portal.

The best bet is probably to embrace the idea that we will likely be a development program for P5 schools, giving fringe P5 athletes a chance to shine early on rather than ride the bench or be perpetually buried in a depth chart. The theory would be that by openly embracing that you would attract a higher level athlete to your program for 1 to 3 years which would theoretically result in a dominant performance year in and year out. Perhaps by showing we can and do produce top tier athletes that can lead to a potential invite as conferences and the league evolve. It' not what I *want* for NDSU or college sports, but what I want (MWC invite or my hypothetical PAC rebuild invite) has very little to do with the current reality.

Well, I think it was you in another thread that said you've never been less excited about a fb season. That's pretty much where I'm at and until the landscape changes significantly, I think my interest will continue to wane.

[MWC]

Not as much spreading out for G5 conferences.

I would disagree. The AAC stretches from San Antonio to Temple. From Tulsa to Miami.

The Sun Belt stretches from San Marcos Tx to Virginia.

The MW goes from Honolulu to Laramie Wyoming.

Distance wise you would have long trips to all 3. However, evidence shows some G5 conferences are willing to really spread out to get who they want.

Your location is not travel concern as much as the school is located in a smallish city. You can't help that but it is something conferences will consider because TV providers play a huge role in all of this.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I would disagree. The AAC stretches from San Antonio to Temple. From Tulsa to Miami.

The Sun Belt stretches from San Marcos Tx to Virginia.

The MW goes from Honolulu to Laramie Wyoming.

Distance wise you would have long trips to all 3. However, evidence shows some G5 conferences are willing to really spread out to get who they want.

Your location is not travel concern as much as the school is located in a smallish city. You can't help that but it is something conferences will consider because TV providers play a huge role in all of this.

^^^ This, except that broader FM ain't that small and is growing at quite a clip
But ... if/when NDSU moves up, it will be because ESPN/FOX wants them too. I still like our odds, but we'll see ...

[daddy daycare]

I would disagree. The AAC stretches from San Antonio to Temple. From Tulsa to Miami.

The Sun Belt stretches from San Marcos Tx to Virginia.

The MW goes from Honolulu to Laramie Wyoming.

Distance wise you would have long trips to all 3. However, evidence shows some G5 conferences are willing to really spread out to get who they want.

Your location is not travel concern as much as the school is located in a smallish city. You can't help that but it is something conferences will consider because TV providers play a huge role in all of this.

Hawaii is an outlier we all know that.

"Not as much spreading out for G5 conferences" is what I stated. Look at the P5 and B1G. California to New York? G5 conferences aren't pulling that off. There's a cute little "spread" on schools but for the most part the G5s aren't going to be branching out like that.

[MWC]

I do think you will move up before long. Realignment is still afoot and shows no sign of slowing down. And you are correct that tv providers will be the deciding factor. Your location won't matter to anybody if a conference can get a better tv deal by adding you.

To this point, the MW's providers, CBS/Fox have not agreed to bump up the deal for any expansion candidates who wished to join the conference. UTSA, UNT and Rice wanted to move to the MW but the providers didn't want to play ball. Those schools are in large markets but they share the fans among the 212 Texas universities.

I am not certain, that CBS/Fox would give the MW a raise for OSU/Wazzu even though they are the only game in town for Corvalis and Pullman. Two small towns though both schools have large enrollment numbers.

[MWC]

Hawaii is an outlier we all know that.

"Not as much spreading out for G5 conferences" is what I stated. Look at the P5 and B1G. California to New York? G5 conferences aren't pulling that off. There's a cute little "spread" on schools but for the most part the G5s aren't going to be branching out like that.

They absolutely will if they can get a better tv deal by doing so. The AAC is not an outlier with their spread. Their commissioner is trying to get OSU/Wazzu as we speak. If he succeeds, we are talking Corvalis Oregon to Miami. That is as large a spread as you can get unless they add Hawaii.

This spreading is in your favor if you wish to move up. If a conference wants you they won't care where you are. The tv people only look at potential viewers instead of map coordinates.

[The_Sicatoka]

Hawaii is an outlier we all know that.

"Not as much spreading out for G5 conferences" is what I stated. Look at the P5 and B1G. California to New York? G5 conferences aren't pulling that off. There's a cute little "spread" on schools but for the most part the G5s aren't going to be branching out like that.

You can do a four time zone conference with B1G media money.
But will it work with just 1/10th of that money ... if that.

[MWC]

You can do a four time zone conference with B1G media money.
But will it work with just 1/10th of that money ... if that.

It is already happening..Even at the G5 level..

[The_Sicatoka]

It is already happening..Even at the G5 level..

But is it sustainable on G5 budgets.

[Professor Chaos]

I would disagree. The AAC stretches from San Antonio to Temple. From Tulsa to Miami.

The Sun Belt stretches from San Marcos Tx to Virginia.

The MW goes from Honolulu to Laramie Wyoming.

Distance wise you would have long trips to all 3. However, evidence shows some G5 conferences are willing to really spread out to get who they want.

Your location is not travel concern as much as the school is located in a smallish city. You can't help that but it is something conferences will consider because TV providers play a huge role in all of this.
All those G5 locations, with the exception of Hawaii, have a "bridge" conference member within a few hundred miles. NDSU is 800+ miles from the nearest MWC school and 1000+ from the nearest CUSA or Sun Belt school. Even the closest MAC school (aka the closest G5 school) is 600+ miles away.

Having a dearth of G5 schools in this area of the country has been a boon in NDSU's rise to prominence in the FCS but will be a hindrance in their journey to FBS.

[daddy daycare]

You can do a four time zone conference with B1G media money.
But will it work with just 1/10th of that money ... if that.

I think we all know the answer to that one. And it would be shocking if Washington State and Oregon State don't end up in the MWC.

Besides...when clicking stories and reading comments (twitter, where have you)...how often to you see other fan bases bringing up NDSU? Pretty rare.

[MWC]

I think we all know the answer to that one. And it would be shocking if Washington State and Oregon State don't end up in the MWC.

Besides...when clicking stories and reading comments (twitter, where have you)...how often to you see other fan bases bringing up NDSU? Pretty rare.

If you are football only you have 4 conference games away from Fargo and ,only 4 MW or AAC schools would have to make the journey up to the frozen tundra.. That is not difficult travel at all.

[HerdBot]

If you are football only you have 4 conference games away from Fargo and ,only 4 MW or AAC schools would have to make the journey up to the frozen tundra.. That is not difficult travel at all.

Were not even frozen in November

[MWC]

Were not even frozen in November

And you have an indoor football facility. I am not sure how you could wing it in an all sports situation but football only could work.

[Gully]

And you have an indoor football facility. I am not sure how you could wing it in an all sports situation but football only could work.

I agree, that's the best hope. But I'm losing (or is it loosing) hope.

[56BISON73]

Were not even frozen in November

Why did they cancel Homecoming in Oct?????

[NDSU92]

Why did they cancel Homecoming in Oct?????

Move the homecoming parade inside! It snowed once!!!

[56BISON73]

Move the homecoming parade inside! It snowed once!!!

It was more than just a little snow. And it stayed around for the rest of the year.

[Hammerhead]

Judging by the line for free signs at Scheels, there is no Bison fatigue.