A new and better FBS thread

[HerdBot]

NDSU & BOISE ST to PAC 10

let's make it happen

Stanford, Arizona and Arizona state will go to the Big 10. That's 3 divisions 7 each. The remainder will probably go to the Mountain West or most of the Mountain West goes to the Pac 12 in search of a better TV deal. Worst case they merge. If were lucky we get a watered down Mountain West invite, which could be OK

[The_Sicatoka]

4-4-2

4 to BXII (all other noise aside, best value for BXII is CU/UA/ASU/UU)
4 to B1G (and I'm now thinking 2 to B1G and 2 to ACC)
2 meet up with MWC under some name

Come 2026 the BXII goes after SDSUred and UConn.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

I saw floated the idea that the BIG take Cal, Stanford and the Pacific Athletic Conference name. Go to 20 split east-west as Pac10 and Big10.

So are they saying the only reason the current PAC-12 is not worth as much as the Big10 or Big12 is because of Oregon State and Washington State? Does those two schools really lower the media deal by that much

[The_Sicatoka]

So are they saying the only reason the current PAC-12 is not worth as much as the Big10 or Big12 is because of Oregon State and Washington State? Does those two schools really lower the media deal by that much

At 7:30 pm Pacific, 80% of the US population is at 9:30 pm or later.
The viewership isn't there; the ad revenue isn't there; the media deal isn't there.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Welp, here’s to hoping that Cal, Stanford, OSU and WSU have enough self-respect to try to pick up the pieces and build back the conference.

But not so much self-respect as to admit defeat and kill the conference.

Slim margins lol

Or do they build back the conference for now and cash in the exit fees. Then eventually make a move out a a later date after they cash in. Cal and Stanford have no benefit in leaving to go independent at this time with that cash cow. Both will leave if a conference takes them otherwise they will rebuild the PAC

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

WSU and OSU would do whatever it takes, Cal and Stanford probably wouldn't have the stomach to add some of the schools that would need to be brought in.

Cal and Stanford did this to themselves, they could have raided the Big 12 years ago but no doubt they were in the group that thumbed their noses at the likes of some of the schools that would have neded to come with to bring in the big fish.

The remaining 4 would have to admit the entire MWC in order to avoid the MWC exit fees with prospective members. Or could they use the PAC12 exit fees to pay for specific MWC members? Boise, SDSU, Colorado State, Air Force are probably the top MWC members they would want. Is WY and NM the only schools the PAC wouldn’t want at this point?

[NDSU92]

The remaining 4 would have to admit the entire MWC in order to avoid the MWC exit fees with prospective members. Or could they use the PAC12 exit fees to pay for specific MWC members? Boise, SDSU, Colorado State, Air Force are probably the top MWC members they would want. Is WY and NM the only schools the PAC wouldn’t want at this point?

Unfortunately for OSU and WSU the PAC exit fee is $free.99

[The_Sicatoka]

Or do they build back the conference for now and cash in the exit fees.

What exit fees? There are none in the PAC. The remaining assets are the NCAA credits.

[MWC]

The remaining 4 would have to admit the entire MWC in order to avoid the MWC exit fees with prospective members. Or could they use the PAC12 exit fees to pay for specific MWC members? Boise, SDSU, Colorado State, Air Force are probably the top MWC members they would want. Is WY and NM the only schools the PAC wouldn’t want at this point?

All 16 under either banner works the same. It would be the only FBS conference west of the Rockies. All those night game Mountain and Pacific time zone slots would be in play. It would not have autonomous status but it would have an excellent chance at being the best G5 and get a bigger tv deal..

Not a great conference but certainly workable.

[NDSUstudent]

The remaining 4 would have to admit the entire MWC in order to avoid the MWC exit fees with prospective members. Or could they use the PAC12 exit fees to pay for specific MWC members? Boise, SDSU, Colorado State, Air Force are probably the top MWC members they would want. Is WY and NM the only schools the PAC wouldn’t want at this point?

If Cal and Stanford were on board they could probably do a lot of things....They could add Hawaii, SDSU, CSU, Boise and UNLV. Perhaps try to pull in Gonzaga and St Mary's for Olympic sports.

They could even take a run at some AAC schools as well. How much heavy lifting to they want to do? They could just take their ball and go home with the indy route.

[The_Sicatoka]

The remaining 4 would have to admit the entire MWC in order to avoid the MWC exit fees with prospective members. Or could they use the PAC12 exit fees to pay for specific MWC members? Boise, SDSU, Colorado State, Air Force are probably the top MWC members they would want. Is WY and NM the only schools the PAC wouldn’t want at this point?

I've pondered if the MWC might vote to dissolve and divest to "off-board" unwanted members in a future association with PAC remnants. The NCAA credits would be distributed and no exit fees.

And the two you mention I could see being "off-boarded". They'd become much more west/Cali.

[NDSUstudent]

This is bad for us. The conference will disolve or merge with another

The western US will have one FBS conference, which is completely ridiculous.

[MWC]

If Cal and Stanford were on board they could probably do a lot of things....They could add Hawaii, SDSU, CSU, Boise and UNLV. Perhaps try to pull in Gonzaga and St Mary's for Olympic sports.

They could even take a run at some AAC schools as well.

They could do a lot of things but the very large exits fees put a severe damper on schools not wanting to dole out 34 million to go to what will be another G5 conference..Or G6 as it were.

[The_Sicatoka]

If Cal and Stanford were on board they could probably do a lot of things....They could add Hawaii, SDSU, CSU, Boise and UNLV. Perhaps try to pull in Gonzaga and St Mary's for Olympic sports.

They could even take a run at some AAC schools as well.

The PAC10 could barely get $20M share per in media.
These new pondered consortiums would get half that at best and are nationwide travel.

Like I said before, they'd be the broke PAC-Mountain conference.

[The_Sicatoka]

They could do a lot of things but the very large exits fees put a severe damper on schools not wanting to dole out 34 million to go to what will be another G5 conference..Or G6 as it were.

Yup, $34M is a hurdle. That's why I see status quo, move in toto, or dissolution vote as more likely that 2 to 4 members departing.

Exit fees are a poison pill.

[BigHorns]

The western US will have one FBS conference, which is completely ridiculous.

Because all the power teams are joining “national” conferences like B1G and B12 now. It’s the G5/G6 that will try to be regional if they can to save money.

It’s estimated it will cost Oregon/Washington $10m a year in travel expenses in B1G. That means if they get a $30m offer, it’s worth $20m net revenue.

The lower conferences are being forced to stay regional because the math doesn’t work if your media deal is only $4m/year.

[BigHorns]

This is bad for us. The conference will disolve or merge with another

I hate this, but things aren’t looking great at the moment.

We needed a little bit of movement and shuffling, not conference implosion.
It’s starting to look like PAC may be done or become the MWC

[HerdBot]

Unfortunately for OSU and WSU the PAC exit fee is $free.99

To split a mediocre MW TV deal?

[NDSU92]

To split a mediocre MW TV deal?

For all the other schools that are flippin the deuce and hitting the road this afternoon.

The comment was made that the two schools could reinvest the PAC exit fees of the schools leaving. Unfortunately there are none.

“We get stronger the longer we wait to negotiate a deal” really stands out as a fucking dumb thing to say, and say repeatedly. The PAC schools really knocked it out of the park with these last two commissioner hires.

[MWC]

For all the other schools that are flippin the deuce and hitting the road this afternoon.

The comment was made that the two schools could reinvest the PAC exit fees of the schools leaving. Unfortunately there are none.

“We get stronger the longer we wait to negotiate a deal” really stands out as a fucking dumb thing to say, and say repeatedly. The PAC schools really knocked it out of the park with these last two commissioner hires.

One semi interesting side note.

Gloria Nevarez was the Deputy Commissioner of the Pac 12 from 2010 to 2018. Maybe they should have promoted her.

[abc123]

The comment was made that the two schools could reinvest the PAC exit fees of the schools leaving. Unfortunately there are none.


From a monetary stand point (exit fees vs. NCAA basketball credits), the MWC holds the cards.
PAC currently has some non-monetary value but that is going to disappear real quick with any sort of revamped lineup they are able to put together.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Cowherd is worried this latest realignment will hurt FCS teams because there might not be as much room for non conference games. Many FCS teams rely on that FBS game money. We need to get out of the FCS asap before the ship sinks. He also was talking about a 16 or even 24 game playoff eventually. The G5 may or many not get many spots in it but we need to get to the next level otherwise we are going to be stuck with bottomfeeders

[Professorbum]

Cowherd is worried this latest realignment will hurt FCS teams because there might not be as much room for non conference games. Many FCS teams rely on that FBS game money. We need to get out of the FCS asap before the ship sinks. He also was talking about a 16 or even 24 game playoff eventually. The G5 may or many not get many spots in it but we need to get to the next level otherwise we are going to be stuck with bottomfeeders

Too late. Our arrogance with respect to CUSA and not seeing them as an available, if temporary, mechanism to become FBS has left us now biting our fingernails, waiting on 15 other teams and conferences to make decisions. Hell, even going as an independent a few years ago (probably not now) would have been better than FCS. But the way we've played our hand over the past few years...ultra conservative, ultra smug, and ultra silent...NDSU belongs in the FCS.

[The_Sicatoka]

And then there were four ...
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1687575233111187456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1687575233111187456%7Ctwgr% 5Ec5f291b972a7421dbced34a2430bc1761948ab5e%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-974426-post-19055178.htmlpid19055178

[The_Sicatoka]

So Cali-Stan and WasSU/OrSU.

How long are the Silicon Valley smugs going to stay with the unwashed of Corvallis and Pullman? They were palatable when USC/UCLA/UW/UO were around to talk to at cocktail parties, but now?

[scottietohottie]

Shit the bed yo.

[The_Sicatoka]

Shit the bed yo.

https://youtu.be/2xwUuSM06xQ?t=24

[El_Chapo]

www.facebook.com/bisonation1

WAC or WWC aka the Wild West Conference. Pac Mwc NDSU/SDSU. I'm in

[TAILG8R]

I'm dreaming of a resolution that has the MWC ending up with Col St, Air Force, New Mexico, Wyoming, Boise(is not a) St. and maybe 1 or 2 others with a need to expand. This would shift the conference closer to central timezone and NDSU would look like a great fit in that scenario.

And you're right I didn't think any of this through and simply looked at a map of the conference and cherry picked the best case scenario for the Bison :)

[TAILG8R]

www.facebook.com/bisonation1

WAC or WWC aka the Wild West Conference. Pac Mwc NDSU/SDSU. I'm in

Only 20 teams???? Is that enough?

[El_Chapo]

Only 20 teams???? Is that enough?

24 probably better i guess.

[taper]

https://bigten.org/news/2023/8/4/general-big-ten.aspx
Washington and Oregon to BIG 10 is official. Doesn't say whether they're full or partial shares.

PAC is dead.

[scottietohottie]

24 probably better i guess.

Still stuck in that wefest line eh? Know way you'd miss Brad pasely eh.

[El_Chapo]

Too late. Our arrogance with respect to CUSA and not seeing them as an available, if temporary, mechanism to become FBS has left us now biting our fingernails, waiting on 15 other teams and conferences to make decisions. Hell, even going as an independent a few years ago (probably not now) would have been better than FCS. But the way we've played our hand over the past few years...ultra conservative, ultra smug, and ultra silent...NDSU belongs in the FCS.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^ these dumb@ss east coast stony brookers larson/phelps just want to ride out NDSU for another 10 years and retire back to the crap east coast

and we MIGHT of missed our opportunity!

[El_Chapo]

Still stuck in that wefest line eh? Know way you'd miss Brad pasely eh.

worst its ever been. cidiots and live nation in a field is a bad combo

[daddy daycare]

worst its ever been. cidiots and live nation in a field is a bad combo

Horrible experience we left.

[The_Sicatoka]

https://bigten.org/news/2023/8/4/general-big-ten.aspx
Washington and Oregon to BIG 10 is official. Doesn't say whether they're full or partial shares.

PAC is dead.

Here's the hidden money statement:

With the schools’ admission, Oregon and Washington will also join the Big Ten Academic Alliance (BTAA), a consortium of world-class research institutions dedicated to advancing their academic missions.

[The_Sicatoka]

Horrible experience we left.

Wait until it starts raining tomorrow.

[TAILG8R]

Horrible experience we left.


Wait until it starts raining tomorrow.

Live nation is a total joke. We paid for a super VIP experience to a concert through them and it had almost nothing they were advertising. Demanded our money back it was so bad.

Anyway back to NDSU going FBS!!!


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[oldmantutters]

How about this for a conference?

Washington State
Oregon State
Boise State
Montana
Montana State
Wyoming
NDSU
SDSU
Colorado State

And fill in with 1-3 of the following:
UND
USD
Northern Colorado
Idaho
Idaho State
Portland State

If the PAC12 gets raided it could mean a huge shake up in the landscape of things.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using TapatalkBump from June 7...

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[BigHorns]

Bump from June 7...

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That would be amazing.
Problem is MWC has 12 members, and with OSU/WSU would go to 14.
If that happens without losses, they likely hold at 14 like AAC and SBC.

We would need something else to happen to force MWC to lose the schools we don't want for this scenario.

[NDSU92]

Bump from June 7...

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I hear what you’re saying but how about this? What if we just waited to see how the landscape shakes out first? Maybe we just wait in FCS until everything is done moving around, and then we decide we wanted to jump!

I’m sure it’s not like it’s going to get progressively more difficult to make the jump as time goes on or anything like that. No way!

[The_Sicatoka]

Apologies to George Strait, but ...

Pacific 4 by morning ...

[BigHorns]

I hear what you’re saying but how about this? What if we just waited to see how the landscape shakes out first? Maybe we just wait in FCS until everything is done moving around, and then we decide we wanted to jump!

I’m sure it’s not like it’s going to get progressively more difficult to make the jump as time goes on or anything like that. No way!

Get the dripping sarcasm, but this isn't finished.

This is not the final chapter. Everyone in P5 is still trying to jump to B1G and SEC.
There will absolutely be more chaos and moves in next 3-5 years.

[The_Sicatoka]

Just the other day some guy was quoted,

"I can't predict what's going to happen in the future, especially in the sport of football, ... Those are things we have to make sure we're cognizant of what's ahead of us. Literally not a day goes by where I'm not monitoring the landscape ... We all need to just be mindful of where we are in the moment, knowing it feels a bit tenuous, ... We always need to understand that tomorrow might not be where today is."

Pretty sound counsel I'd say.

[El_Chapo]

That would be amazing.
Problem is MWC has 12 members, and with OSU/WSU would go to 14.
If that happens without losses, they likely hold at 14 like AAC and SBC.

We would need something else to happen to force MWC to lose the schools we don't want for this scenario.

then they need 2 more NDSU UTEP

[BigHorns]

Its now looking likely the PAC-4 and MWC will simply merge. Not the outcome we wanted really

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1687639910230966272?s=20

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Its now looking likely the PAC-4 and MWC will simply merge. Not the outcome we wanted really

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1687639910230966272?s=20

Or let some new schools take over that g5 conference! Time is now to make the move!

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Its now looking likely the PAC-4 and MWC will simply merge. Not the outcome we wanted really

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1687639910230966272?s=20

When has the PAC done the practical thing before?
Big score for MWC if it happens

One wonders now, given the new playoff format, if FBS will leave the conference void that comes from the merger empty
Assuming it happens of course

[BigHorns]

When has the PAC done the practical thing before?
Big score for MWC if it happens

One wonders now, given the new playoff format, if FBS will leave the conference void that comes from the merger empty
Assuming it happens of course

They are already discussing changes to the format, and want more at large to go to the remaining P4 conferences.
G5 will be lucky to retain one bid slot.

Power conferences are saying the new format should be all at large, which would be 99% of time awarded to power conferences.
The power conferences are closing ranks, at some point will leave the G5 after they've sucked all the money out.

[TAILG8R]

Its now looking likely the PAC-4 and MWC will simply merge. Not the outcome we wanted really

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1687639910230966272?s=20

What real benefit is that to the MWC? Didn’t the PAC just prove that no one wants to pay for games in the pacific time zone?

So you add a couple prestigious schools but does your media deal really go up that much? They’re not going to even the shitty Apple deal the PAC was offered.

MWC should have long term glasses on and realize they need to move more central. Not saying that means NDSU but being heavily weighted to the West is a death knell.


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[THEsocalledfan]

What did I learn from all this? Door just slammed shut for ndsu..... losing an entire fbs conference is worst scenario.

[TAILG8R]

What did I learn from all this? Door just slammed shut for ndsu..... losing an entire fbs conference is worst scenario.

If you think this years game attendance is going to be bad just wait until next year when it’s crystal clear we are stuck in the FCS for the long foreseeable future. Woof, it’s going to get pretty grim for a while.


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[El_Chapo]

If you think this years game attendance is going to be bad just wait until next year when it’s crystal clear we are stuck in the FCS for the long foreseeable future. Woof, it’s going to get pretty grim for a while.


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^^^^ this. all of this. wake the heck up and do WHATEVER YOU CAN TO GET NDSU INTO FBS.

NOW.!!!

[BigHorns]

If you think this years game attendance is going to be bad just wait until next year when it’s crystal clear we are stuck in the FCS for the long foreseeable future. Woof, it’s going to get pretty grim for a while.


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there's still a longshot PAC rebuilds itself and poaches some schools. thats what we need to hope for right now.

Odds are we won't be able to move with this round, but there will still be more movement eventually. Ultimately the power conferences are going to consolidate and split off, but that will take more time.

Most likely we are gonna have to grin and bear it with fcs a few more years.
The playoffs are still fun.

[The_Sicatoka]

What did I learn from all this?

It's all about the Benjamins.

[The_Sicatoka]

there's still a longshot PAC rebuilds itself and poaches some schools. thats what we need to hope for right now.

How does the PAC "lure" teams that have $18M (AAC) to $34M (MWC) exit fees to the PAC when the PAC:

- has no media deal (https://media.tenor.com/q2b4QSSl64kAAAAC/despicable-me-gru.gif)
- owes Comcast $50M dollars because of misbilling

[NDSU92]

How does the PAC "lure" teams that have $18M (AAC) to $34M (MWC) exit fees to the PAC when the PAC:

- has no media deal (https://media.tenor.com/q2b4QSSl64kAAAAC/despicable-me-gru.gif)
- owes Comcast $50M dollars because of misbilling

If they could float it for a year as independents that would change a lot. Wait for those buyouts to cool off a year. No idea if that’s possible.

How would the schools that received the benefits of the overpayment just get off scot free by leaving the conference? Lol highway robbery. Steal $50M from comcast, leave the leftovers for dead, then leave them with the bill on the way out the door?

That being said I can’t see the school presidents that just absolutely got played like witless fools are gonna pull off some slick power moves. I feel terrible for their stakeholders reading their interviews. “Omg we had no idea this could happen?!” Lol oof

[Gully]

The whole thing feels like it's going to collapse, other than 30ish teams. I can see college sports at most schools going back to a non-scholly DIII type model as the schools won't be able to afford all of the non-revenue sports that leach off fb and bb.

[BigHorns]

The whole thing feels like it's going to collapse, other than 30ish teams. I can see college sports at most schools going back to a non-scholly DIII type model as the schools won't be able to afford all of the non-revenue sports that leach off fb and bb.

Ultimately you may be right, and it is sad.

All of the FBS money is being consolidated to the top 30-50 teams.
Meanwhile, the cost of fielding a winning team keeps escalating too. Have to build the best facilities, hire the top coaches, and now pay the top players too.

There is going to be 2/3 FBS pro level conferences, and everyone else left with peanuts.
What is happening now is everyone trying to latch onto one of those conferences they hope survives.

[BigHorns]

Oregon State players, who were in Valley Football Center preparing for Friday’s practice when the news broke, were only willing to look ahead to a 2023 Pac-12 season.

“I don’t think our team needs to worry about it. Wherever we go, we go. Where we don’t go, we don’t go,” right tackle Taliese Fuaga said. “Our team is here in Corvallis. Wherever we play, we play.”

Said quarterback Ben Gulbranson: “We’re just excited for the 2023 season and look forward to winning a lot of ball games.”

I hope our team can stay focused like this and not get distracted by all the FBS noise.
It would be nice to return to Frisco and win another one this year.

[Big Bird]

there's still a longshot PAC rebuilds itself and poaches some schools. thats what we need to hope for right now.

Odds are we won't be able to move with this round, but there will still be more movement eventually. Ultimately the power conferences are going to consolidate and split off, but that will take more time.

Most likely we are gonna have to grin and bear it with fcs a few more years.
The playoffs are still fun.

I don't expect people to embrace it though, and attendance will almost certainly suffer while apathy builds. They have to give people some hope for a change, because the rest of FCS is embarrassing and so uninteresting.

Until they make a move to FBS, I've lost considerable interest. I'll watch the games on TV when able, but it isn't appointment viewing for me and the experience in the dome isn't a novelty or enthralling anymore.

[HerdBot]

This is so hard to predict. Standord, Cal, Washington State and Oregon State have more drawing power for a TV contraxt than the entire Mountain West Combined. Unlike the Mountain West, who has a crappy TV deal (4 million pet school average) to split among 4 more teams, the 4 Pac 12 teams can negotiate a better deal if they poach Boise, San Diego State, Colorado State and Fresno. Then they are up to 8 teams. That would leave the Mountain West with 7

But you have the exit fees. Maybe the PAC 12 has some money in reserve to help pay them?

The Mountain West TV deal goes through 2025-2026. Can the renegotiate? Then again the PAC 12 has no deal which is good and bad. But poaching their remaining 4 schools has no exit fee

But I can see a short term scheduling arrangement for sure.

Then again, I dont believe the Big 10 is done with 4 west coast schools. It just doesnt make sense

[NDSUstudent]

Then again, I dont believe the Big 10 is done with 4 west coast schools. It just doesnt make sense

They are done, the only thing they want is ND and/or schools in the ACC.

The ACC is going to be the next battleground.

[BigHorns]

They are done, the only thing they want is ND and/or schools in the ACC.

The ACC is going to be the next battleground.

The Big 10 is becoming the professional super league that will take the top teams and split with the SEC in a NFC/AFC style.
They don't need or want 100 teams, maybe 24 or so each. Thats larger than the NFL.

When I think about the events of this week, and how quickly the PAC was torn apart, it does make me a little sad. We are doing all this just to turn the top of college sports into Pro teams chasing money. The old NCAA system is rapidly dying.

Maybe there is hope for whatever emerges as the second tier out of this mess, I'm not sure. But until they put some structures in place that can even the playing field a bit, its just all one unending mega money chase now.

NDSU will never be in the top tier of this new system. If we are fortunate, maybe someday we can be part of a more rational second tier. I just have no idea how long that will take.

[MWC]

OSU and Wazzu have been raking in millions for years and both are carrying huge debt. They founded the conference. They didn't have to get into the money chase but they did. Certainly a cautionary tale.

[oldmantutters]

Very interesting listen to The Audible podcast with Stewart Mandel and Bruce Feldman talking about realignment. Specifically the portion where they talked about what will become of Stanford. Basically there's this assumption that Stanford is flush with cash, but just a few years ago they were looking at cutting multiple sports and there isn't great interest on campus in football. Didn't rule out ending up as an FCS team.

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[bisonaudit]

OSU and Wazzu have been raking in millions for years and both are carrying huge debt. They founded the conference. They didn't have to get into the money chase but they did. Certainly a cautionary tale.

Cautionary? Seems like they just hit the jackpot.

[NDSU92]

The Big 10 is becoming the professional super league that will take the top teams and split with the SEC in a NFC/AFC style.
They don't need or want 100 teams, maybe 24 or so each. Thats larger than the NFL.

When I think about the events of this week, and how quickly the PAC was torn apart, it does make me a little sad. We are doing all this just to turn the top of college sports into Pro teams chasing money. The old NCAA system is rapidly dying.

Maybe there is hope for whatever emerges as the second tier out of this mess, I'm not sure. But until they put some structures in place that can even the playing field a bit, its just all one unending mega money chase now.

NDSU will never be in the top tier of this new system. If we are fortunate, maybe someday we can be part of a more rational second tier. I just have no idea how long that will take.

I think the B10 and SEC schools need to make sure they know what they're getting themselves into. Seems like they're working really hard to just become semi-pro developmental leagues.

The majority of money in and around college athletics either comes from universities, states, school boosters, etc. Even these monster TV contracts are being driven by the fact there’s a bunch of eyeballs across the country that want to keep tabs on schools that are playing in their same division. The direction they're going is further stripping down the facade that these are just college kids playing ball while getting an education. Maybe I'm projecting, but I don't watch P5 football anymore and I know I'm not the only one. It's essentially the D league but the teams just get a school's name slapped on the jersey.

[Hammerhead]

They might draw more viewers if the games were played in the afternoon on the west coast although then there are more games going on at the same time across the country.



What real benefit is that to the MWC? Didn’t the PAC just prove that no one wants to pay for games in the pacific time zone?

So you add a couple prestigious schools but does your media deal really go up that much? They’re not going to even the shitty Apple deal the PAC was offered.

MWC should have long term glasses on and realize they need to move more central. Not saying that means NDSU but being heavily weighted to the West is a death knell.


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[Hammerhead]

Did the 8 teams leaving the Pac-12 pay an exit fee? If so, all of those funds should be controlled by the remaining four to entice new members.


This is so hard to predict. Standord, Cal, Washington State and Oregon State have more drawing power for a TV contraxt than the entire Mountain West Combined. Unlike the Mountain West, who has a crappy TV deal (4 million pet school average) to split among 4 more teams, the 4 Pac 12 teams can negotiate a better deal if they poach Boise, San Diego State, Colorado State and Fresno. Then they are up to 8 teams. That would leave the Mountain West with 7

But you have the exit fees. Maybe the PAC 12 has some money in reserve to help pay them?

The Mountain West TV deal goes through 2025-2026. Can the renegotiate? Then again the PAC 12 has no deal which is good and bad. But poaching their remaining 4 schools has no exit fee

But I can see a short term scheduling arrangement for sure.

Then again, I dont believe the Big 10 is done with 4 west coast schools. It just doesnt make sense

[BigHorns]

Cautionary? Seems like they just hit the jackpot.

In what way did OSU and Wazzu hit the jackpot?

The PAC just fell apart, and they are left dangling in the winds, looking for a lifeline.
Right now it looks like they are going from big money PAC to small money MWC.

Wazzu was already subsidized with $15m year from the school and student fees, and almost all of that goes to debt service for their stadium.
Now, they are going to take a huge hit to the revenue side too. Can they even afford to keep operating without more subsidies?

There will almost certainly be cuts to the OSU/WSU programs. They went from being "big time" to "small time" in FBS overnight.

[NDSU92]

Did the 8 teams leaving the Pac-12 pay an exit fee? If so, all of those funds should be controlled by the remaining four to entice new members.

No exit fees

[bruinbison]

The Big 10 is becoming the professional super league that will take the top teams and split with the SEC in a NFC/AFC style.
They don't need or want 100 teams, maybe 24 or so each. Thats larger than the NFL.

When I think about the events of this week, and how quickly the PAC was torn apart, it does make me a little sad. We are doing all this just to turn the top of college sports into Pro teams chasing money. The old NCAA system is rapidly dying.

Maybe there is hope for whatever emerges as the second tier out of this mess, I'm not sure. But until they put some structures in place that can even the playing field a bit, its just all one unending mega money chase now.

NDSU will never be in the top tier of this new system. If we are fortunate, maybe someday we can be part of a more rational second tier. I just have no idea how long that will take.

There are signs of that out there still.
Talk of re-examining what the new college playoff will look like is out there already with these dramatic changes.



Ross Dellenger
@RossDellenger
·14h

Two CFP commissioners tell
@YahooSports
that the 6+6 expansion format should be re-examined (not surprising).

Starting in 2024, 6 highest-ranked conference champs get at-large spots & next 6 highest-ranked teams get at-large spots.


It would be no surprise to see the Power conferences, however they do it, leave some/all of those G5 conferences behind…

Perhaps the G5/Top Tier FCS is a stronger possibility today than last week…
Somebody needs to come in with some money for televising/streaming such a playoff and that would grease the skids…

[NDSU92]

There are signs of that out there still.
Talk of re-examining what the new college playoff will look like is out there already with these dramatic changes.



It would be no surprise to see the Power conferences, however they do it, leave some/all of those G5 conferences behind…

Perhaps the G5/Top Tier FCS is a stronger possibility today than last week…

Didn’t take the power conferences long to do the ol’ bait and switch, huh?

[BigHorns]

Perhaps the G5/Top Tier FCS is a stronger possibility today than last week…
Somebody needs to come in with some money for televising/streaming such a playoff and that would grease the skids…

Well, you have a good point on the CFP, the top conferences are already talking about making the bids ALL at large, to cut the G5 out.

If there's a split, the money to setup a new Tier 2 structure and playoff is going to be the challenge.
P2 have been sucking all the money out of the system now, and everyone else is getting crumbs.

Maybe we need this split to hurry up and happen, so the remnants can go organize something else.

[TAILG8R]

They might draw more viewers if the games were played in the afternoon on the west coast although then there are more games going on at the same time across the country.

A second tier or streaming service isn’t going to want to compete with the major networks at those times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigHorns]

A second tier or streaming service isn’t going to want to compete with the major networks at those times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats the challenge - all the top networks/time slots and money are being consolidated to the top couple conferences.
They are concentrating the wealth rather than spreading it. Costs are also escalating to reach or remain in that tier.

Maybe the G5 end up in the same place as FCS, hard to say. The top tier wants separation.
Its going to be the same problem FCS has, lack of money and investment.

[taper]

A second tier or streaming service isn’t going to want to compete with the major networks at those times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A streaming service isn't going to get any subscribers that wouldn't already watch the PAC over other games. It's just a slightly bigger version of CAA's FloSports deal.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

ESPN/FOX basically decided what the top level of CFB will look like
Odds are pretty good they’ll decide what the 2nd level looks like too, and I agree that it won't include most of the FCS


There are signs of that out there still.
Talk of re-examining what the new college playoff will look like is out there already with these dramatic changes.



It would be no surprise to see the Power conferences, however they do it, leave some/all of those G5 conferences behind…

Perhaps the G5/Top Tier FCS is a stronger possibility today than last week…
Somebody needs to come in with some money for televising/streaming such a playoff and that would grease the skids…

[AKBison]

What did I learn from all this? Door just slammed shut for ndsu..... losing an entire fbs conference is worst scenario.

False, it's the perfect scenario for NDSU.The remaining PAC members aren't going to merge with the MWC, it would be dumb for them to do so. They would give up their current P5 autonomy, NCAA basketball autobid and credits, and CFP payout. Instead they will grab the the cream from the AAC and MWC and try to survive. That will leave the MWC and AAC severely depleted and looking for members.

New PAC

OSU
WSU
Cal
Stanford
Boise
Nevada
UNLV
SDSU
Hawaii
Tulane
Rice
SMU

[BigHorns]

False, it's the perfect scenario for NDSU.The remaining PAC members aren't going to merge with the MWC, it would be dumb for them to do so. They would give up their current P5 autonomy, NCAA basketball autobid and credits, and CFP payout. Instead they will grab the the cream from the AAC and MWC and try to survive. That will leave the MWC and AAC severely depleted and looking for members.


Well, this is what we need to hope for. There are PAC/MWC merger discussions underway though.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10085174-report-mountain-west-receptive-to-potential-pac-12-merger-after-exodus

AAC ($18m) and MWC ($34m) exit fees are a significant challenge when combined with no media deal, exit fees and $50m debt to Comcast for PAC.

If PAC manages to reconstitute itself now, that may be the comeback of the decade.

[BigHorns]

Stanford has reportedly reached out to the B12 for a lifeline.

The PAC-4 could be the PAC-3 or PAC-2 soon.

[OrygunBison]

If the PAC4 teams join the MWC (not merge but leave PAC4 and join MWC and evade the Comcast thing), NDSU's best FBS options become MAC or AAC.

If the PAC4 schools decide to try to stick it out, our best chance of all might be to join that conference. This would be fucking awesome.

I now don't see a situation where we end up in the MWC.

[BigHorns]

If the PAC4 teams join the MWC (not merge but leave PAC4 and join MWC and evade the Comcast thing), NDSU's best FBS options become MAC or AAC.

If the PAC4 schools decide to try to stick it out, our best chance of all might be to join that conference. This would be fucking awesome.

I now don't see a situation where we end up in the MWC.

If PAC4 decide to stick it out, they will backfill with FBS schools.
PAC-4 will go Indy before they call up FCS teams.

If PAC-4 backfills, that should open a few slots, somewhere.
We need PAC to survive for a near term shot anywhere other than the MAC.

[BigHorns]

AAC now also trying to add the PAC-4 if they can.

https://twitter.com/SlowSteadyEddie/status/1687781552338391040?s=20

[NDSU92]

Stanford has reportedly reached out to the B12 for a lifeline.

The PAC-4 could be the PAC-3 or PAC-2 soon.

I mean every team should’ve been doing that since the minute the B12 won the race to getting a media deal done. B12 going to tell them helllll no.

This very situation has been prognosticated by armchair AD’s for over a year it would be wild if those 4 schools didn’t have a contingency.

[NDSU92]

AAC now also trying to add the PAC-4 if they can.

https://twitter.com/SlowSteadyEddie/status/1687781552338391040?s=20

Geographically, that conference would probably have the least hangup about having a Great Plains school that brings value.

[BigHorns]

I mean every team should’ve been doing that since the minute the B12 won the race to getting a media deal done. B12 going to tell them helllll no.

This very situation has been prognosticated by armchair AD’s for over a year it would be wild if those 4 schools didn’t have a contingency.

Agree, it seems like some of the Elites at places like Stanford just thought it was impossible for PAC to fail.
Supposedly Stanford AD cussed out GK last night when he promised to help them find landing spots on an emergency meeting and left the call.

Now they are scrambling to figure out whats next.

[taper]

Agree, it seems like some of the Elites at places like Stanford just thought it was impossible for PAC to fail.
Supposedly Stanford AD cussed out GK last night when he promised to help them find landing spots on an emergency meeting and left the call.

Now they are scrambling to figure out whats next.

To be fair, you only have to go back a few pages in this thread to find a bunch of people saying it's impossible to kill a conference, especially a P5. That was a pretty widespread view until yesterday.

[OrygunBison]

It wasn't too long ago that the big scuttlebutt was that Texas and Oklahoma were heading to the PAC12 and that it'd be the end of the Big12.

I wonder how long it will take the B1G to kick out Rutgers or the SEC to kick out Vandy, etc.

Will the Big12 ultimately survive or are they next in about 5 years?

It is weird to witness all of this happening. College sports and the student athlete won't be better off for these moves. The divide will get bigger.

[reformedUNDfan]

Very interesting listen to The Audible podcast with Stewart Mandel and Bruce Feldman talking about realignment. Specifically the portion where they talked about what will become of Stanford. Basically there's this assumption that Stanford is flush with cash, but just a few years ago they were looking at cutting multiple sports and there isn't great interest on campus in football. Didn't rule out ending up as an FCS team.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

Stanford has a 37 billion dollar endowment. They spend more than $6 billion per year for a university that isn't much bigger than NDSU

[reformedUNDfan]

Anyway it's really disgusting that TV money and some administrator egos are fucking up college football this year.

[taper]

It wasn't too long ago that the big scuttlebutt was that Texas and Oklahoma were heading to the PAC12 and that it'd be the end of the Big12.

I wonder how long it will take the B1G to kick out Rutgers or the SEC to kick out Vandy, etc.

Will the Big12 ultimately survive or are they next in about 5 years?

It is weird to witness all of this happening. College sports and the student athlete won't be better off for these moves. The divide will get bigger.

The Big12 looks to be solidly in 3rd place after B1G and SEC. Don't see the B12 getting raided anymore, there's simply nobody left that the top 2 want. ACC media deal is worse and it seems half the conference wants out, so if anything the B12 can absorb anybody they want after the B1G/SEC take their pick of the litter. The ACC GOR is the only thing keeping them together right now, they're in a lot of trouble once that expires.

[Big Bird]

It wasn't too long ago that the big scuttlebutt was that Texas and Oklahoma were heading to the PAC12 and that it'd be the end of the Big12.

I wonder how long it will take the B1G to kick out Rutgers or the SEC to kick out Vandy, etc.

Will the Big12 ultimately survive or are they next in about 5 years?

It is weird to witness all of this happening. College sports and the student athlete won't be better off for these moves. The divide will get bigger.

I've wondered about this a lot recently. There are some teams, especially in the SEC, that don't increase the value of the conference, but are getting a full share of the pie. Curious to see how long it lasts or if we start seeing more performance based sharing, like the ACC is going to do.

[daddy daycare]

Too late. Our arrogance with respect to CUSA and not seeing them as an available, if temporary, mechanism to become FBS has left us now biting our fingernails, waiting on 15 other teams and conferences to make decisions. Hell, even going as an independent a few years ago (probably not now) would have been better than FCS. But the way we've played our hand over the past few years...ultra conservative, ultra smug, and ultra silent...NDSU belongs in the FCS.

As much as the CUSA sucks ass this is the only option for the time being.

[BigHorns]

As much as the CUSA sucks ass this is the only option for the time being.

Its more of an illusion than a real option, they will stay in their footprint. They have their expansion candidates already, and its basically ASun schools. That conference makes less than $1m per school.

MAC is a far more realistic goal. Even Indy, which is a crazy longshot filled with potholes is more likely.

[EC8CH]

AAC, MW, *pinches nose", MAC.... Just get us the fruck outta here!

First GFCC... Now Murray State.... Murray..... State.

[bisonaudit]

Perhaps the G5/Top Tier FCS is a stronger possibility today than last week…
Somebody needs to come in with some money for televising/streaming such a playoff and that would grease the skids…

Apparently AppleTV+ is looking for a college football partner.

[HerdBot]

As much as the CUSA sucks ass this is the only option for the time being.

Unless the PAC 12 (4) guts the rest of the G5. The remaining 4 are still P5 quality and the best teams in the G5

[Professorbum]

As much as the CUSA sucks ass this is the only option for the time being.

It was an option. It is no longer an option. We are no longer on their radar. We told them to f right off. All life boats have been launched.

[reformedUNDfan]

NDSU should be on the phone talking to the players about putting a best of the rest conference together centered around the MWC, but through Pac12 infrastructure. Tack on NDSU SDSU SMU and Memphis.

[The_Sicatoka]

I wonder how long it will take the B1G to kick out Rutgers or the SEC to kick out Vandy, etc.


They, frankly any conference member not delivering the value of a share, would be wise to take note of the predicament of WasSU and OrSU right now.

WasSU has serious debt/budget issues also.

[reformedUNDfan]

They, frankly any conference member not delivering the value of a share, would be wise to take note of the predicament of WasSU and OrSU right now.

WasSU has serious debt/budget issues also.

To your point yesterday, I don't think the academic consortium behind the Big10 would stand for kicking out anyone except maybe Nebraska, which isn't happening.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

It was an option. It is no longer an option. We are no longer on their radar. We told them to f right off. All life boats have been launched.

We make more in the MVFC, and we need money
How much did you give NDSU athletics this year?

[The_Sicatoka]

As much as the CUSA sucks ass this is the only option for the time being.

Disagree. A conference that fears being raided in the future could invite a group to be the "Great Plains" division to have inventory.

Or, the NCAA could realize western CFB may soon be the MWC+2 and the BSC*. They could allow a rogue group to form a new G5 conference to fill the "entry level" FBS void in the west (without formal invite to FBS, ala Liberty). But this is the NCAA we're expecting to make sense, so don't hold your breath. And there's money involved and potentially more folks wanting a cut.


*Not that long ago it was PAC, MWC, WAC, BSC.

[reformedUNDfan]

Honestly with the huge buyouts in the AAC and MWC member contracts, NDSU might actually be the best available school. Get on the horn we can be in the PAC by Monday.

[The_Sicatoka]

To your point yesterday, I don't think the academic consortium behind the Big10 would stand for kicking out anyone except maybe Nebraska, which isn't happening.

If the PAC4 was shifty they'd quietly (no tampering, wink) let the part of the MWC they'd associate with know they'd be accepted. If it were six or more of the MWC, the by-laws only require majority vote to (a) remove exit fees, and (b) dissolve the conference. So say USAFA, SDSU, CSU, SDSU, UNR, Hawaii, got a quiet wink: They could remove the exit fee, dissolve, take their fraction of the remains, ... and Boise*, UNLV**, Wyo, UNM would be screwed.

But that PAC4+6, would they get better than a $10M share media deal? Even if they invited Gonzaga? That won't feed the CaliStan beasts.


*I don't see CaliStan ever tied to Boise State.
**Maybe included to appease UNR.

[The_Sicatoka]

Honestly with the huge buyouts in the AAC and MWC member contracts, NDSU might actually be the best available school. Get on the horn we can be in the PAC by Monday.

It'd be a PAC2. No way would CaliStan stay for that (or any FCS call-ups).

The PAC right now:
- four teams that are about as disparate in the conference as could be: CaliStan and the xSUs.
- no media deal to offer to potential new members
- $50M in debt to Comcast (because of billing mistake)
- $24.2M in assets (per 2021 IRS Form 990)
- whatever NCAAT credits they have

That really doesn't look like a nice landing spot.

[reformedUNDfan]

It'd be a PAC2. No way would CaliStan stay for that (or any FCS call-ups).

The PAC right now:
- four teams that are about as disparate in the conference as could be: CaliStan and the xSUs.
- no media deal to offer to potential new members
- $50M in debt to Comcast (because of billing mistake)
- $24.2M in assets (per 2021 IRS Form 990)
- whatever NCAAT credits they have

That really doesn't look like a nice landing spot.

I'm channeling my inner Chapo.

If the bay schools leave then you have a 4 team shell (NDSU SDSU OSU WSU) you can invite new members into.

[NDSU92]

If the PAC4 was shifty they'd quietly (no tampering, wink) let the part of the MWC they'd associate with know they'd be accepted. If it were six or more of the MWC, the by-laws only require majority vote to (a) remove exit fees, and (b) dissolve the conference. So say USAFA, SDSU, CSU, SDSU, UNR, Hawaii, got a quiet wink: They could remove the exit fee, dissolve, take their fraction of the remains, ... and Boise*, UNLV**, Wyo, UNM would be screwed.

But that PAC4+6, would they get better than a $10M share media deal? Even if they invited Gonzaga? That won't feed the CaliStan beasts.


*I don't see CaliStan ever tied to Boise State.
**Maybe included to appease UNR.

They could definitely make it work. The money is there. The desire for the top half of the MW to be associated with the PAC rather than the bottom of the MW is there. The desperation is there.

What’s not there is time. There’s a part of me that thinks they could work something out by June 30th of next year, and the PAC 4 just chill out for a year as essentially Indy’s maybe with a scheduling agreement with the AAC or ACC.

It’s just an effing mess and no one that’s left in the PAC has shown they have the initiative, leadership, grasp on reality or fortitude to do what it would take.

[NDSU92]

I'm channeling my inner Chapo.

If the bay schools leave then you have a 4 team shell (NDSU SDSU OSU WSU) you can invite new members into.

Oof I’m gonna need some stronger stuff tonight if we’re going down this road

[El_Chapo]

Pac 10 should take Cali Schools
Fresno San Jose San Diego Hawaii

MWC backfills with NDSU/NMSU or UTEP/SMU

[The_Sicatoka]

I'm channeling my inner Chapo.

Penicillin will clear that up.

[The_Sicatoka]

Pac 10 should take Cali Schools
Fresno San Jose San Diego Hawaii

MWC backfills with NDSU/NMSU or UTEP/SMU

How are the Cali schools going to afford the MWC buy-out and no PAC media deal to go to?

The way out of the MWC is getting a majority to either (a) eliminate buy-out, or (b) close up shop. Otherwise it's a $17-$34M poison pill to prevent defections.

[The_Sicatoka]

Oof I’m gonna need some stronger stuff tonight if we’re going down this road

Grain Belt in the garage fridge by the ginger beer and limes; Tito's for mules in the cabinet if you grabbed a ginger beer and a lime.

[GreenfieldBison]

Penicillin will clear that up.

If only that were true.

[Professorbum]

We make more in the MVFC, and we need money
How much did you give NDSU athletics this year?

I dunno. A couple hundred bucks and season tickets. As if it matters.

[heffray]

It was an option. It is no longer an option. We are no longer on their radar. We told them to f right off. All life boats have been launched.

Wait, what?! When did this happen?


How much did you give NDSU athletics this year?

Ok that dick-measuring bullshit needs to stop.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I dunno. A couple hundred bucks and season tickets. As if it matters.

It obviously matters. Glad you bought tickets

If people are gong to dis on the school and program for not moving up, its fair to ask how much they support the program

[heffray]

It obviously matters. Glad you bought tickets

If people are gong to dis on the school and program for not moving up, its fair to ask how much they support the program

Or we could just assume that most fans here want what they feel is best for “the program” and do what they can within their means to support it.

[BigHorns]

Wait, what?! When did this happen?


https://www.inforum.com/sports/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/mcfeely-blog-podcast-says-conference-usa-contacted-ndsu-but-bison-athletic-director-denies-it

NDSU admin on the record said that it didn't, but in interviews has also clearly stated we have NO interest there.
On the flip side, the schools CUSA would call up next are well known and published, its the WAC and ASun schools. They aren't trying to expand at the moment, it would reduce their per school revenues even more.

It's logical neither party has much interest, there's just not enough revenue there to cover the travel. Anyone paying attention knows CUSA is looking to minimize travel and expenses and stay in the Southeast. We would make less than half of our current media deal, it would be a pay cut for NDSU.

People banging this drum just can't accept that travel costs do matter to the bottom G5.
The level of competition would also be worse than MVFC, a quick look at Sagarin shows this.

Compared to CUSA, MAC would be a homerun.

[NDSU92]

https://www.inforum.com/sports/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/mcfeely-blog-podcast-says-conference-usa-contacted-ndsu-but-bison-athletic-director-denies-it

NDSU admin on the record said that it didn't, but in interviews has also clearly stated we have NO interest there.
On the flip side, the schools CUSA would call up next are well known and published, its the WAC and ASun schools. They aren't trying to expand at the moment, it would reduce their per school revenues even more.

It's logical neither party has much interest, there's just not enough revenue there to cover the travel. Anyone paying attention knows CUSA is looking to minimize travel and expenses and stay in the Southeast. We would make less than half of our current media deal, it would be a pay cut for NDSU.

People banging this drum just can't accept that travel costs do matter to the bottom G5.
The level of competition would also be worse than MVFC, a quick look at Sagarin shows this.

Compared to CUSA, MAC would be a homerun.

The MAC will never ever offer us unless shit really falls apart. It is a bus league thru and thru with other bus-able options should they need them.

Hell, I’m just happy our administration finally isnt afraid of admitting that they’re looking at FBS and would be interested if the offer came. Hope they didn’t lose too much sleep over giving the fanbase an ounce of hope.

[HerdBot]

Oh, all the money including playoff credits are split between the Pac 4. Thats 105 million per team. If anyone thinks they will bail to the mountain west to earn 4 million per year, they are nuts. They will simply add 2 more teams (to get a waiver) from any conference. They will have an easy path to the CFP, unlike a G5.

Them when the MW TV deal is done in 2025, they will poach them with no exit fee.

[bisonaudit]

Oh, all the money including playoff credits are split between the Pac 4. Thats 105 million per team. If anyone thinks they will bail to the mountain west to earn 4 million per year, they are nuts. They will simply add 2 more teams (to get a waiver) from any conference. They will have an easy path to the CFP, unlike a G5.

Them when the MW TV deal is done in 2025, they will poach them with no exit fee.

How sure are you that the winner of a six team PAC would be one of the 6 highest ranked conference champions?

[BigHorns]

Oh, all the money including playoff credits are split between the Pac 4. Thats 105 million per team. If anyone thinks they will bail to the mountain west to earn 4 million per year, they are nuts. They will simply add 2 more teams (to get a waiver) from any conference. They will have an easy path to the CFP, unlike a G5.

Them when the MW TV deal is done in 2025, they will poach them with no exit fee.

This is entirely possible.

Something to remember is that about a week ago there was talk of PAC expansion and all being well.
Friday morning, reputable reporters were saying the PAC was sticking together and signing the apple deal
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1687461243865481216?s=20

By that evening the SHTF, and it was all falling apart.

The PAC-4 clearly got caught with their pants down when everyone else ran for the exits.
It may take them a few weeks to figure things out, but these are still schools with more power and prestige than anyone in the G5.

We will see if they have the guts and pride to rebuild it, or just take the first exit they find too.

[BigHorns]

How sure are you that the winner of a six team PAC would be one of the 6 highest ranked conference champions?

Ideally, they would add 4 top notch G5, and then figure things out from there.
It should be #5 if they can poach the top G5 schools from AAC and MWC.
They would have to screw it up pretty bad to drop below #6.

If the best targets say no, that would change the picture.
But the Pac-4 would just go Indy before they add someone like Kennesaw or FIU.

Maybe they wouldn't have Notre Dame status, but they would still get respect.

[Hammersmith]

Wait, what?! When did this happen?


It didn't really. When CUSA was on the edge of imploding, they asked a bunch of schools(20+?) if they were interested. Reading between the lines, NDSU might have expressed interest in football-only membership, but gave a pretty hard pass on being a full member.

But it needs a little more context. It was pretty clear at the time that CUSA was not offering membership to those they asked, they were just gauging interest. They were trying to put together a list to see what combos might work. They had a short list of real contenders they wanted, but were also looking at what other schools around each of those contenders might also come along if asked. In our case, the critical member was Missouri State. If the Bears had been interested, then CUSA would have looked north to SDSU and NDSU to see if they wanted to form a new geographic wing to the conference. But MSU wasn't interested, so it didn't matter what NDSU answered; there wasn't going to be an invite. It's even possible NDSU admin knew MSU's position before they even said anything to CUSA.

[Professorbum]

It didn't really. When CUSA was on the edge of imploding, they asked a bunch of schools(20+?) if they were interested. Reading between the lines, NDSU might have expressed interest in football-only membership, but gave a pretty hard pass on being a full member.

But it needs a little more context. It was pretty clear at the time that CUSA was not offering membership to those they asked, they were just gauging interest. They were trying to put together a list to see what combos might work. They had a short list of real contenders they wanted, but were also looking at what other schools around each of those contenders might also come along if asked. In our case, the critical member was Missouri State. If the Bears had been interested, then CUSA would have looked north to SDSU and NDSU to see if they wanted to form a new geographic wing to the conference. But MSU wasn't interested, so it didn't matter what NDSU answered; there wasn't going to be an invite. It's even possible NDSU admin knew MSU's position before they even said anything to CUSA.

Sorry but no. The context you provide is interesting supposition, but not necessary for understanding the bottom line. Ndsu was clear they were not interested in CUSA. It was reported that NDSU told CUSA that. I complained about our short-sightedness at the time. Talk of FBS lifeboats and all that. People here on the board rejoiced as you all wanted no part of CUSA. “MVFC is better.” “Travel would suck.” “No media deal in place” Fine, whatever. But you can’t now downplay that there was an opportunity. Missouri State had nothing to do with it. CUSA was desperate. No one seriously doubts NDSU could have gone to CUSA if they had wanted to.

[taper]

Oh, all the money including playoff credits are split between the Pac 4. Thats 105 million per team. If anyone thinks they will bail to the mountain west to earn 4 million per year, they are nuts. They will simply add 2 more teams (to get a waiver) from any conference. They will have an easy path to the CFP, unlike a G5.

Them when the MW TV deal is done in 2025, they will poach them with no exit fee.
Wait, where is this $105M x 4 coming from?
FBS conference needs 8 full members, not 6 like FCS.
The MWC exit fees are in the bylaws, not a media deal GOR. The only way to avoid exit fees is getting enough votes to dissolve the conference, which probably won't happen.
Conferences are hard to kill but the PAC seems to have found a way.

[bruinbison]

Possible (rumored) PAC12 numbers



Dave “Softy” Mahler
@Softykjr

One thing I just learned per source about Pac 12 media rights offer:

There was NEVER an offer that included ANY linear TV options.

$23m annually from Apple with an opt out after two years was the ONLY option presented to the executive committee.

Pac 12 was paying out $27m this year. Would have been a $4m loss plus the loss of linear TV.

Non starter that would never be accepted
5:57 PM · Aug 5, 2023

[bruinbison]

Possible (rumored) Washington Big10 numbers



Dave “Softy” Mahler
@Softykjr

Per source, UW will be accepting a reduced share for the next 6 years form the Big Ten that will average roughly 32.5 million a year.

The real windfall will come when the new Big Ten media deal is agreed to. Could be for more than 2.5-3x what UW will make in first 6 years.

UW also will have access to non media rights revenue streams(CFP revenue, NCAA tournament revenue) that could add $10+ million per year.
6:02 PM · Aug 5, 2023

[bisonaudit]

Possible (rumored) Washington Big10 numbers

3x comment would imply a $1.8 billion annual media deal for the conference. The current deal is like $1.1 billion through 2030.

[HerdBot]

Wait, where is this $105M x 4 coming from?
FBS conference needs 8 full members, not 6 like FCS.
The MWC exit fees are in the bylaws, not a media deal GOR. The only way to avoid exit fees is getting enough votes to dissolve the conference, which probably won't happen.
Conferences are hard to kill but the PAC seems to have found a way.

The whole conference gets the last payment for the Pac 12 Networks. Instead of splitting it 12 ways, it's split 4 ways

Same is true of the payments from the NCAA Tournament credits and the bump in College Football Playoff money for being in an autonomous conference
.
There is still some money out there for these 4 schools. Way more than the MW TV deal that pays 4 million a year and could shrink more if split amongst 4 more teams

I dont believe the PAC 12 wants the whole MWC for all sports. They would be better off poaching 4 teams nationwide. Whether it's a Memphis, UTEP or pretty much anyone

[taper]

The whole conference gets the last payment for the Pac 12 Networks. Instead of splitting it 12 ways, it's split 4 ways

Same is true of the payments from the NCAA Tournament credits and the bump in College Football Playoff money for being in an autonomous conference
.
There is still some money out there for these 4 schools. Way more than the MW TV deal that pays 4 million a year and could shrink more if split amongst 4 more teams

I dont believe the PAC 12 wants the whole MWC for all sports

The PAC media ends July 1, 2024. All 12 members are playing the 2023/4 season and receiving their share. BB credits are nice but anyone joining is leaving behind credits too so that's a wash. I strongly suspect the CFP revamps who gets paid what since the PAC is now a power conference in name only. Don't forget they owe Comcast somewhere between $50-70M.

[HerdBot]

The PAC media ends July 1, 2024. All 12 members are playing the 2023/4 season and receiving their share. BB credits are nice but anyone joining is leaving behind credits too so that's a wash. I strongly suspect the CFP revamps who gets paid what since the PAC is now a power conference in name only. Don't forget they owe Comcast somewhere between $50-70M.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-04-03/march-madness-pac-12-success-additional-money

18 million per year now split between 4 schools. Thats more than the MW gets for their whole TV deal.

Thats just for basketball

[The_Sicatoka]

Conferences are hard to kill but the PAC seems to have found a way.

The lack of an exit fee was the undoing.

[taper]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-04-03/march-madness-pac-12-success-additional-money

18 million per year now split between 4 schools. Thats more than the MW gets for their whole TV deal.

Thats just for basketball
Except they won't be split 4 ways. If they don't return to at least 8 they're no longer a conference and the credits go to the schools that earned them. If they want to get 8 there's no way anybody is going to pay $20-34M in exit fees and not get a share. The MWC and AAC have a nice pile of credits too they'd be leaving behind.
PAC finances are a mess.

[The_Sicatoka]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-04-03/march-madness-pac-12-success-additional-money

18 million per year now split between 4 schools.

So $4.5M per school.
I wonder if that covers the interest on Cal's FB renovations annual mortgage payment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Memorial_Stadium#Renovation_financing) ($18M).

[The_Sicatoka]

PAC finances are a mess.

... and are making the PAC the first zombie conference.

[HerdBot]

So $4.5M per school.
I wonder if that covers the interest on Cal's FB renovations annual mortgage payment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Memorial_Stadium#Renovation_financing) ($18M).

Well... if the MW pays 4 million per school and its further dilluted... beggers cant be choosers.

Also the 50 million the conference owes Comcast will be taken from the $420 million revenue due to the conference this year. That leaves 370 million split amongst 4 schools. Almost 100 milliom each

They made their own mess. Unless the Big 10 or 12 save them, which is unlikely. They may need to set a budget amd make that money go far

[taper]

Well... if the MW pays 4 million per school and its further dilluted... beggers cant be choosers.

Also the 50 million the conference owes Comcast will be taken from the $420 million revenue due to the conference this year. That leaves 370 million split amongst 4 schools. Almost 100 milliom each
What don't you understand about this? The last year of payments is split 12 ways, not 4.

[Gully]

Reading some speculation that some in the MWC might team up to get enough votes to dissolve or waive the exit fees....then leave to the PAC. This could leave Nevada and a few others stuck alone.

No idea if this is likely, but the XDSUs and Montana Schools could fit nicely with Wyoming, Nevada, and a couple more.

[HerdBot]

The lack of an exit fee was the undoing.

It was the reason behind the schools leaving for sure. But I don't think it kills the conference. Maybe weakens it into a G5 but their is still too much money on the table by G5 standards. They get 18 millon a year in basketball credits split between the remaining teams. That itself will incentivse them to keep the conference going until that falls off the books. They will get that money after the MW deal expires. To a Conference USA school who only gets 750k a year from their TV deal, I guarantee the PAC 4 can do better if they can get up to 8.

Also they should be able to at the very least secure a mediocre TV deal on par with the MW if they can add 4 teams.

[Big Bird]

Reading some speculation that some in the MWC might team up to get enough votes to dissolve or waive the exit fees....then leave to the PAC. This could leave Nevada and a few others stuck alone.

No idea if this is likely, but the XDSUs and Montana Schools could fit nicely with Wyoming, Nevada, and a couple more.

I'd take that in a heartbeat.

[Gully]

I'd take that in a heartbeat.

Me too, but it could be a long shot, I have no idea how the MW schools look at things, but I would think a number of them would want to be in a PAC with OSU and WSU.

[The_Sicatoka]

Reading some speculation that some in the MWC might team up to get enough votes to dissolve or waive the exit fees....then leave to the PAC. This could leave Nevada and a few others stuck alone.

MWC by-laws only require simple majority vote to eliminate buy-outs or dissolve.
If motion on either of those came to vote, and I were Wyo or UNM, I'd be worried.

[Gully]

MWC by-laws only require simple majority vote to eliminate buy-outs or dissolve.
If motion on either of those came to vote, and I were Wyo or UNM, I'd be worried.

Interesting, I agree with you. I wasn't sure it only required simple majority. That could increase chances of something still happening here that would open a move for NDSU.

[Professor Chaos]

Seems like all the activity on Friday could still either be a very good thing or a very bad thing for the MWC. In any case, if a spot opens up for NDSU in the MWC it seems very likely that the conference will look completely different than it does today. Although that's probably an ideal scenario for NDSU IMO because it means potential for multiple regional partners to make the move with them which will be crucial for the non-revenue sports.

SDSU, Montana, Montana St, Idaho, and Missouri St would all be viable FBS candidates IMO - one or all of those first 3 going with NDSU would be as good of an opportunity as they could hope for but there would be plenty of scenarios for MWC east and northward expansion should the PAC pull out the undertaker gif and figure out a way to raid the MWC.

[HerdBot]

What don't you understand about this? The last year of payments is split 12 ways, not 4.

I thought the Pac 12 was withholding payments for the 2023-2024 season? If not, nothing really changes other than Cal will be more fucked

[The_Sicatoka]

Interesting, I agree with you. I wasn't sure it only required simple majority. That could increase chances of something still happening here that would open a move for NDSU.

I've seen both 50% and 75% claimed as the requirement.
If I were Wyo I'd be talking with USU and UNM (and SJSU?) to make sure they understand how they could be hung out and to get a voting bloc together.

The MWC has "history":
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/sports/csu/2018/09/28/colorado-state-university-president-secret-meeting-led-creation-mountain-west-conference/1457199002/

[HerdBot]

I've seen both 50% and 75% claimed as the requirement.
If I were Wyo I'd be talking with USU and UNM (and SJSU?) to make sure they understand how they could be hung out and to get a voting bloc together.

The MWC has "history":
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/sports/csu/2018/09/28/colorado-state-university-president-secret-meeting-led-creation-mountain-west-conference/1457199002/

Interesting. I would imagine the Pac 4 wants nothing to do with markets like Laramie Wyoming and Logan Utah.

It will want to cherry pick the teams with the most value. Air Force, Colorado State, Boise and San Diego State

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

This is so hard to predict. Standord, Cal, Washington State and Oregon State have more drawing power for a TV contraxt than the entire Mountain West Combined. Unlike the Mountain West, who has a crappy TV deal (4 million pet school average) to split among 4 more teams, the 4 Pac 12 teams can negotiate a better deal if they poach Boise, San Diego State, Colorado State and Fresno. Then they are up to 8 teams. That would leave the Mountain West with 7

But you have the exit fees. Maybe the PAC 12 has some money in reserve to help pay them?

The Mountain West TV deal goes through 2025-2026. Can the renegotiate? Then again the PAC 12 has no deal which is good and bad. But poaching their remaining 4 schools has no exit fee

But I can see a short term scheduling arrangement for sure.

Then again, I dont believe the Big 10 is done with 4 west coast schools. It just doesnt make sense
The PAC has no money especially to pay 4 MWC exit fees. They have to take the entire MWC to avoid the exit fees.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

It wasn't too long ago that the big scuttlebutt was that Texas and Oklahoma were heading to the PAC12 and that it'd be the end of the Big12.

I wonder how long it will take the B1G to kick out Rutgers or the SEC to kick out Vandy, etc.

Will the Big12 ultimately survive or are they next in about 5 years?

It is weird to witness all of this happening. College sports and the student athlete won't be better off for these moves. The divide will get bigger.

Or the a big 12 to kick out West Virginia. Lots of schools in the P4 are at the same level as Washington st and Oregon st. They got lucky to be on the inside when all this poaching started.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

How are the Cali schools going to afford the MWC buy-out and no PAC media deal to go to?

The way out of the MWC is getting a majority to either (a) eliminate buy-out, or (b) close up shop. Otherwise it's a $17-$34M poison pill to prevent defections.

By taking the top half of the MWC. They would have to vote to remove the exit fees then leave. That’s the only way the PAC steals from the MWC without taking all of them.

[taper]

By taking the top half of the MWC. They would have to vote to remove the exit fees then leave. That’s the only way the PAC steals from the MWC without taking all of them.
That would also result in a very interesting lawsuit. Let's say 8 schools want to leave and avoid the $34M exit. $272M is worth suing over collusion. Only guarantee in that suit is that all the lawyers get paid.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Interesting. I would imagine the Pac 4 wants nothing to do with markets like Laramie Wyoming and Logan Utah.

It will want to cherry pick the teams with the most value. Air Force, Colorado State, Boise and San Diego State
This is what happens if SDSU puts together enough teams to join them in leaving the conference. Nothing against the rules to vote out the exit fees. Question is do they take the CA and NV schools? I would not take HI either if I was the PAC. This leaves a huge hole for the Big Sky and NDSU!

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Seems like all the activity on Friday could still either be a very good thing or a very bad thing for the MWC. In any case, if a spot opens up for NDSU in the MWC it seems very likely that the conference will look completely different than it does today. Although that's probably an ideal scenario for NDSU IMO because it means potential for multiple regional partners to make the move with them which will be crucial for the non-revenue sports.

SDSU, Montana, Montana St, Idaho, and Missouri St would all be viable FBS candidates IMO - one or all of those first 3 going with NDSU would be as good of an opportunity as they could hope for but there would be plenty of scenarios for MWC east and northward expansion should the PAC pull out the undertaker gif and figure out a way to raid the MWC.

Leave Mo St and SDSU off the list, they have shown the commitment to afford it. Even the Montanas have a Long way to go. Idaho and NDSU are they only schools ready.

[The_Sicatoka]

That would also result in a very interesting lawsuit. Let's say 8 schools want to leave and avoid the $34M exit. $272M is worth suing over collusion. Only guarantee in that suit is that all the lawyers get paid.

A fraud by collusion against the defectors would be lucrative for the others.

[abc123]

Idaho and NDSU are they only schools ready.

Based on what criteria? Not sure about Idaho, but NDSU doesn't currently meet the new FBS requirements. Not undoable but looking at the math and needing to add $1 million in student aid when you're already fully funded looks like another women's sport likely needs to be added somewhere.

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

A fraud by collusion against the defectors would be lucrative for the others.

What rule says they can’t have those conversations? Prove that it is illegal. Cal and Stanford would still have to stoop to that level which may not happen

[The_Sicatoka]

It will want to cherry pick the teams with the most value. Air Force, Colorado State, Boise and San Diego State

You got 3 of 4.
CaliStan wouldn't tolerate Boise State and their below average academics.

[taper]

Based on what criteria? Not sure about Idaho, but NDSU doesn't currently meet the new FBS requirements. Not undoable but looking at the math and needing to add $1 million in student aid when you're already fully funded looks like another women's sport likely needs to be added somewhere.
What new FBS requirements? You mean one of a thousand proposals that hasn't even been scheduled for a vote?

[The_Sicatoka]

What rule says they can’t have those conversations?

Talk? Sure.
The minute they begin to act as a group to willfully withhold exit fees that's conspiracy.
Also, most conferences have disclosure by-laws that require you to disclose if you've received an offer or are in talks. It normally requires abstention from voting.

[The_Sicatoka]

What new FBS requirements? You mean one of a thousand proposals that hasn't even been scheduled for a vote?

No, the "fund 90% of grants in all sponsored sports, 210 total grants, $6M in grants, 16 sports" proposal scheduled for vote in September. It also does away with the 15k average attendance rule completely.

The MAC pushed for elimination of "15k"; the trade to get it was the 210 grants for $6M requirements.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/6/28/media-center-di-council-proposes-changes-to-membership-requirements-for-fbs-schools.aspx

[HerdBot]

Based on what criteria? Not sure about Idaho, but NDSU doesn't currently meet the new FBS requirements. Not undoable but looking at the math and needing to add $1 million in student aid when you're already fully funded looks like another women's sport likely needs to be added somewhere.

If we can raise 58 million for the new IPF, adding 1 million in student aid is a foregone conclusion

[El_Chapo]

gotta love UND guys Waldorf and Statler here yapping like they or und are in any way involved in going to FBS. lol

[Gully]

No, the "fund 90% of grants in all sponsored sports, 210 total grants, $6M in grants, 16 sports" proposal scheduled for vote in September. It also does away with the 15k average attendance rule completely.

The MAC pushed for elimination of "15k"; the trade to get it was the 210 grants for $6M requirements.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/6/28/media-center-di-council-proposes-changes-to-membership-requirements-for-fbs-schools.aspx

I don't think that will be a problem. At the rate they're growing the endowments, a good portion will be funded automatically each year, with the goal of having all scholarships funded by endowments.

[abc123]

I don't think that will be a problem. At the rate they're growing the endowments, a good portion will be funded automatically each year, with the goal of having all scholarships funded by endowments.

If you're already fully funded, who are you going to give them to? 22 more football scholarships doesn't get you there.

[Gully]

If you're already fully funded, who are you going to give them to? 22 more football scholarships doesn't get you there.

Add a sport, I suppose.

[Kevin]

Been gone a few weeks bros are we fbs yet

[BigHorns]

No, the "fund 90% of grants in all sponsored sports, 210 total grants, $6M in grants, 16 sports" proposal scheduled for vote in September. It also does away with the 15k average attendance rule completely.

The MAC pushed for elimination of "15k"; the trade to get it was the 210 grants for $6M requirements.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/6/28/media-center-di-council-proposes-changes-to-membership-requirements-for-fbs-schools.aspx

UND sure as hell better hope that gets adopted.
Lots easier to spend money than hit the 15k average up there.

We'll be fine either way.

[Hammerhead]

I've wondered about this a lot recently. There are some teams, especially in the SEC, that don't increase the value of the conference, but are getting a full share of the pie. Curious to see how long it lasts or if we start seeing more performance based sharing, like the ACC is going to do.

I'm not sure how each school does in other sports, but even SEC football teams probably like having some easier games on the schedule once in a while.

[El_Chapo]

Been gone a few weeks bros are we fbs yet

Kevin. I'm over my hangover. I will be using all of my online resources and hook ups to get this done within 48 hours.

I'll post my venmo when I'm done, and you fans come compensate me accordingly.

I'm ALL IN

[BigHorns]

I'm not sure how each school does in other sports, but even SEC football teams probably like having some easier games on the schedule once in a while.

Conference value is sometimes measured in ways beyond wins and losses in football.
Basketball performance (Duke), rich recruiting territory (Texas schools), media market that increases the payout (Rutgers), academic prestige (Vanderbilt), etc.

Having said that, there are definitely some schools pushing for higher compensation.
Boise St got their own special deal, FSU wants more, Oregon and UW would have likely had unequal sharing if they stayed in PAC.

It is also likely you will see more performance based payouts in the P5 conferences.
Less common in G5, but they have a smaller pie to start with.

[El_Chapo]

Kevin. I'm over my hangover. I will be using all of my online resources and hook ups to get this done within 48 hours.

I'll post my venmo when I'm done, and you fans come compensate me accordingly.

I'm ALL IN

CUSA fans are mad that the quote is going around that we turned down CUSA. oops.

MAC fans actually are proud to be a bus league

AAC fans heads are spinning.

MWC fans are trying to merge with Pac.

we got some work to do Kevin.. fire up the Adderall

[bruinbison]

Big 12 rumor…



Jason Scheer
@jasonscheer
·9h

Hearing Oregon State and San Diego State have had very preliminary talks with the Big 12 over the last 48 hours. Key word is preliminary and it would be at discounted rates.

[Big Bird]

Big 12 rumor…

If you're the B12, how does adding Oregon State make any sense? SDSU makes sense, along with their rumored interest in UCONN to a degree. I'd be very surprised if they do add Oregon State.

Hopefully it doesn't happen and we see something like a Cal, Stanford, Oregon St, Washington St, Hawaii, Air Force, Colorado State, SDSU, UNLV, and Utah State/Fresno State PAC-10, which opens up the MWC for NDSU. Playing Boise St, Wyoming, SJSU, Nevada, Utah State/Fresno State, and New Mexico, with FCS call ups would interest me. It isn't perfect, but it's a significant improvement over FCS and CUSA.

[The_Sicatoka]

... SDSU makes sense, ...

I think they're one of the best available non P2 out there after Notre Dame and Stanford.
The BXII would get SoCal market and ASU and UA would get back to their primary recruiting areas.

[NDSU92]

If you're the B12, how does adding Oregon State make any sense? SDSU makes sense, along with their rumored interest in UCONN to a degree. I'd be very surprised if they do add Oregon State.

Hopefully it doesn't happen and we see something like a Cal, Stanford, Oregon St, Washington St, Hawaii, Air Force, Colorado State, SDSU, UNLV, and Utah State/Fresno State PAC-10, which opens up the MWC for NDSU. Playing Boise St, Wyoming, SJSU, Nevada, Utah State/Fresno State, and New Mexico, with FCS call ups would interest me. It isn't perfect, but it's a significant improvement over FCS and CUSA.

Because the Big 16, Big 18 and SEC are in “watch the world burn” mode and this is just more ridiculous anarchy to add to the madness? I mean if you’re going to take OSU, why not take WSU? Lol

[The_Sicatoka]

I mean if you’re going to take OSU, why not take WSU? Lol

Because MN and WA are alike in that their "state" schools are budget nightmares and they protect the franchise (the M or the W) at all costs.
SCSU's budget and enrollment nightmares seem manageable compared to what WasSU is facing.
WasSU's not even the best DI academics in Pullman-Moscow.

[The_Sicatoka]

Because the Big 16, Big 18 and SEC are in “watch the world burn” mode ...

Agree.
I bet all three will digest (do nothing) for a while and just watch FSU try to break the ACC GOR.
If that happens, the ACC will be quartered like the PAC was.

Crown jewel: North Carolina <- new TV market for B1G or SEC and growing population

[NDSU_grad]

If you're already fully funded, who are you going to give them to? 22 more football scholarships doesn't get you there.
If we are fully funded right right now that’s 191 scholarships. Adding 22 would put us above the minimum requirement. I don’t think the total aid piece would be a problem.

[The_Sicatoka]

If we are fully funded right right now that’s 191 scholarships. Adding 22 would put us above the minimum requirement. I don’t think the total aid piece would be a problem.

The new (proposed but expected) rule says for FBS: 16 sports, 90% of grants in each sport you play, 210 total grants, $6M in grants (and eliminates the 15k attendance rule).

In the sports NDSU plays they can offer 114.7 mens and 78 womens grants (per NCAA limits). That's 192.7 and 59.8% male. NDSU fans say they're fully funded and for this analysis we accept that as fact, 191 or 192 grants (we agree). And Knight says that's $5M in grants ($26k per).

16 sports. All good.
Fully funded at 90%. All good.

$6M?

For NDSU just add the 22 FBS grants to get to $6M (and 210), yes? Um, no. 22 grants for FBS means 22*$26k for about $575k. But that totals to still under $6M ($5.575M). And 22 FB makes for a 64% male grant dollars split. That'll get some notice (likely from WEquest that NDSU recently tried to shut down).

So, just add women's grants, right? Where? They're fully funded. To add women's grants NDSU'd have to add a women's sport (Equest?). So, $1M more on grants and need women's grant slots to fund (i.e. add a women's sport).

None of that is insurmountable (money and a plan), but there are more moving pieces than first glance would have one believe.


The Montana schools each only have 15 NCAA recognized sports.
The South Dakota schools are each under $5M in grant dollars.
Everyone'd have to come up with the $5M FBS entry fee (part of new rule).

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Boy you sure are lobbying hard
Not saying NDSU gets in, but the only way you do is if the pig farmers are too stupid to see the future and pass
But please, carry on

Stopped by the MWC board just for yucks
Who’s the clueless dipshit who calls himself "mags"?
Smells like a desperate und fan
The stench was so bad it forced me to leave ...



The new (proposed but expected) rule says for FBS: 16 sports, 90% of grants in each sport you play, 210 total grants, $6M in grants (and eliminates the 15k attendance rule).

In the sports NDSU plays they can offer 114.7 mens and 78 womens grants (per NCAA limits). That's 191.7 and 59.8% male. NDSU fans say they're fully funded and for this analysis we accept that as fact, 191.7 grants (we agree). And Knight says that's $5M in grants ($26k per).

16 sports. All good.
Fully funded at 90%. All good.

$6M?

For NDSU just add the 22 FBS grants to get to $6M (and 210), yes? Um, no. 22 grants for FBS means 22*$26k for about $575k. But that totals to still under $6M ($5.575M). And 22 FB makes for a 64% male grant dollars split. That'll get some notice (likely from WEquest that NDSU recently tried to shut down).

So, just add women's grants, right? Where? They're fully funded. To add women's grants NDSU'd have to add a women's sport (Equest?). So, $1M more on grants and need women's grant slots to fund (i.e. add a women's sport).

None of that is insurmountable (money and a plan), but there are more moving pieces than first glance would have one believe.


The Montana schools each only have 15 NCAA recognized sports.
The South Dakota schools are each under $5M in grant dollars.
Everyone'd have to come up with the $5M FBS entry fee (part of new rule).

[MWC]

Boy you sure are lobbying hard
Not saying NDSU gets in, but the only way you do is if the pig farmers are too stupid to see the future and pass
But please, carry on

Stopped by the MWC board just for yucks
Who’s the clueless dipshit who calls himself "mags"?
Smells like a desperate und fan
The stench was so bad it forced me to leave ...

Mags is just a troll..I don't think he has any connection to NDSU or any MWC school. Lakesbison has been the only regular and he has been pleasant and friendly lately.

[skunkapekiller]

adding any female sport that no one watches is tough to do financially...especially if it involves horses.

[NDSU_grad]

The new (proposed but expected) rule says for FBS: 16 sports, 90% of grants in each sport you play, 210 total grants, $6M in grants (and eliminates the 15k attendance rule).

In the sports NDSU plays they can offer 114.7 mens and 78 womens grants (per NCAA limits). That's 192.7 and 59.8% male. NDSU fans say they're fully funded and for this analysis we accept that as fact, 191 or 192 grants (we agree). And Knight says that's $5M in grants ($26k per).

16 sports. All good.
Fully funded at 90%. All good.

$6M?

For NDSU just add the 22 FBS grants to get to $6M (and 210), yes? Um, no. 22 grants for FBS means 22*$26k for about $575k. But that totals to still under $6M ($5.575M). And 22 FB makes for a 64% male grant dollars split. That'll get some notice (likely from WEquest that NDSU recently tried to shut down).

So, just add women's grants, right? Where? They're fully funded. To add women's grants NDSU'd have to add a women's sport (Equest?). So, $1M more on grants and need women's grant slots to fund (i.e. add a women's sport).

None of that is insurmountable (money and a plan), but there are more moving pieces than first glance would have one believe.


The Montana schools each only have 15 NCAA recognized sports.
The South Dakota schools are each under $5M in grant dollars.
Everyone'd have to come up with the $5M FBS entry fee (part of new rule).
I get that, but you’re basically talking a half million dollars. Plus, we all know how these NCAA ‘requirements’ have worked in the past. This rule won’t be a determining factor at all in a move-up.

[skunkapekiller]

what's the link to the mwc board

[skunkapekiller]

i think you undershooting the half mil....your not adding in facilities, coaches salary,........

[ndsubison1]

Seems like a western conference will disappear after all of this. Probably the CUSA.

[The_Sicatoka]

I get that, but you’re basically talking a half million dollars. Plus, we all know how these NCAA ‘requirements’ have worked in the past. This rule won’t be a determining factor at all in a move-up.

Like I said, "None of that is insurmountable (money and a plan), but there are more moving pieces than first glance would have one believe."

These new requirements (16/90%/210/$6M) are much simpler to audit so they are more readily enforceable. (Most of the MAC is doing 'creative' pricing and purchases to make "15k".)
You must be in compliance with the new rules by 2027 (if/when they pass); there are some southern schools way worse off than those I mentioned.

[skunkapekiller]

Like I said, "None of that is insurmountable (money and a plan), but there are more moving pieces than first glance would have one believe."

These new requirements (16/90%/210/$6M) are much simpler to audit so they are more readily enforceable. (Most of the MAC is doing 'creative' pricing and purchases to make "15k".)
You must be in compliance with the new rules by 2027 (if/when they pass); there are some southern schools way worse off than those I mentioned.

without even looking.........ul-m and ark st?

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Mags is just a troll..I don't think he has any connection to NDSU or any MWC school. Lakesbison has been the only regular and he has been pleasant and friendly lately.

How you feeling about all this MWC? Could be really great for you, or could be really "bad"
Tough to see the PAC go, tbh, but seems they've been flirting with this for a while now
Paul Finebaum be dammed, I would not be surprised if they find a way to pull it out ...

[Professorbum]

Boy you sure are lobbying hard
Not saying NDSU gets in, but the only way you do is if the pig farmers are too stupid to see the future and pass
But please, carry on

Stopped by the MWC board just for yucks
Who’s the clueless dipshit who calls himself "mags"?
Smells like a desperate und fan
The stench was so bad it forced me to leave ...
Yeah...I saw that he quoted me to make a point. While I might think I've got a handle on things, I'm actually a nobody, so quoting me is worthless. But even more odd was that my quote didn't really go to the point he was making.

[taper]

adding any female sport that no one watches is tough to do financially...especially if it involves horses.
We already fund a club equestrian team, it wouldn't be that much extra to expand the program into NCAA.

As for that D1 proposal the UND fans keep harping on, it could very easily turn into 210 grants or $6M. That one word change is all it takes and we're far from the only school that would prefer it that way.

[NDSUguy]

We already fund a club equestrian team, it wouldn't be that much extra to expand the program into NCAA.

As for that D1 proposal the UND fans keep harping on, it could very easily turn into 210 grants or $6M. That one word change is all it takes and we're far from the only school that would prefer it that way.

At a NCAA level, I think that it would be tough to mandate a total dollar amount in grants, given that there is a wide ranging cost associated with tuition. Private schools would have the upper hand over many public schools when it comes to grants provided simply because their tuition costs so much more. That is why my thought is that it will be the total number of grants provided. That is the fairest way to ensure that schools are committed to Athletics.

[The_Sicatoka]

without even looking.........ul-m and ark st?

ULM and FAU are both under $5M. ArkSt is over $6M.

[The_Sicatoka]

At a NCAA level, I think that it would be tough to mandate a total dollar amount in grants, given that there is a wide ranging cost associated with tuition. Private schools would have the upper hand over many public schools when it comes to grants provided simply because their tuition costs so much more. That is why my thought is that it will be the total number of grants provided. That is the fairest way to ensure that schools are committed to Athletics.

It's "and" not "or" the way the NCAA release is written.

If adopted, all FBS schools would be required to provide 90% of the total number of allowable scholarships over a two-year rolling period across at least 16 sports, including football. Schools also would be required to offer at least 210 scholarships each year, amounting to no less than $6 million in athletics scholarships offered.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/6/28/media-center-di-council-proposes-changes-to-membership-requirements-for-fbs-schools.aspx

Pricey privates want a dollar number; cheap publics want a grants number; so require both and make nobody happy <-- the NCAA way!

[taper]

It's "and" not "or" the way the NCAA release is written.

If adopted, all FBS schools would be required to provide 90% of the total number of allowable scholarships over a two-year rolling period across at least 16 sports, including football. Schools also would be required to offer at least 210 scholarships each year, amounting to no less than $6 million in athletics scholarships offered.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/6/28/media-center-di-council-proposes-changes-to-membership-requirements-for-fbs-schools.aspx

Pricey privates want a dollar number; cheap publics want a grants number; so require both and make nobody happy <-- the NCAA way!

Wow, when you get an idea in your head you really can't accept any alternate views, can you? This is just a proposal. It hasn't passed, it isn't a rule. Proposals can change, and there's plenty of schools that don't like the $6M part. Even if that does pass, we'll be fine. The way things are going we'll pass the mark just from inflation in a few years. Since the privates meet it from higher fees, we can easily do the same on an accounting ledger. Just offer a class with a $5000 lab fee related to sports medicine all incoming athletes are expected to take. That $5k is part of the grant of course.

[El_Chapo]

he's grabbing at straws praying ndsu doesnt leave

[BigHorns]

adding any female sport that no one watches is tough to do financially...especially if it involves horses.

My oh my … the clowns come out from everywhere when it starts to look like we could move.

[Gully]

It's "and" not "or" the way the NCAA release is written.

If adopted, all FBS schools would be required to provide 90% of the total number of allowable scholarships over a two-year rolling period across at least 16 sports, including football. Schools also would be required to offer at least 210 scholarships each year, amounting to no less than $6 million in athletics scholarships offered.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/6/28/media-center-di-council-proposes-changes-to-membership-requirements-for-fbs-schools.aspx

Pricey privates want a dollar number; cheap publics want a grants number; so require both and make nobody happy <-- the NCAA way!

You seem very invested in the idea that NDSU can't move up. Why would this be so important to you?

[skunkapekiller]

You seem very invested in the idea that NDSU can't move up. Why would this be so important to you?

did you ever think it might be mutually beneficial to und that the other dak3 are in a position to move up and that if 1,2, or 3 of them aren't qualified it might hurt und's chances of getting a FBS invite if it required a travel partner?

[skunkapekiller]

same thing over in montana.......are they happy playing colin cowherd university? what if one is happy with he bsc and one wants to jump to FBS but their counterpart isn't hitting the requirements and a travel partner was a requirement?

[heffray]

You seem very invested in the idea that NDSU can't move up. Why would this be so important to you?

Come on, you know why…

[Gully]

Come on, you know why…

Yes, I do. I'm just enjoying it.

[The_Sicatoka]

You seem very invested in the idea that NDSU can't move up. Why would this be so important to you?

What I said was, "None of that is insurmountable (money and a plan), but there are more moving pieces than first glance would have one believe."

It's more than taking a phone call and a hearty Chapo "Let's goooooooo!"

Every school, UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, Montana, MSU, Idaho, has details to work out.

[taper]

What I said was, "None of that is insurmountable (money and a plan), but there are more moving pieces than first glance would have one believe."

It's more than taking a phone call and a hearty Chapo "Let's goooooooo!"

Every school, UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, Montana, MSU, Idaho, has details to work out.
If having a plan is required for movement then UND is screwed.

[skunkapekiller]

you can say that but numbers and facilities say otherwise.

[El_Chapo]

LOL so isn't just Waldorf and Statler. (sick & abc12dumbass).. its the 3 stooges here. WTF>

[skunkapekiller]

all they (and me ) are saying is get your (ndsu) crap straight bc unlike 20 years ago the flagship university of North Dakota is ready for business
for a travel partner GF is much much more appealing to whatever conference is calling than Brookings SD....

get your title 9 stuff figured out.

[skunkapekiller]

women's hockey will forever be the dumbest move und ever made........

tell larsen to not add women's hockey....equestrian is where it's at!!!!!!!

[El_Chapo]

all they (and me ) are saying is get your (ndsu) crap straight bc unlike 20 years ago the flagship university of North Dakota is ready for business
for a travel partner GF is much much more appealing to whatever conference is calling than Brookings SD....

get your title 9 stuff figured out.

get this und fantasy shit off of this FBS thread

we are talking with the big boys, your pissing with the puppies!! NDSU is on multiple lists and articles for expansion.

[skunkapekiller]

list?
which ones?
links?

[skunkapekiller]

it's either mwc or bust for the dak4...either they take 2 or 4...no way a school sends their teams this far north for oly sports without a 2 for 1

[heffray]

Boy those chiclets turned red in a hurry…

[Winterborn]

Boy those chiclets turned red in a hurry…

If silence be good for the wise, how much better for fools. —Talmud

[HerdBot]

it's either mwc or bust for the dak4...either they take 2 or 4...no way a school sends their teams this far north for oly sports without a 2 for 1

Have you seen the conferences. Big 10 is from LA to New York. Mountain West is 100% air travel. Only the MAC is a bus league. Besides we want a football only invite

[MWC]

Have you seen the conferences. Big 10 is from LA to New York. Mountain West is 100% air travel. Only the MAC is a bus league. Besides we want a football only invite

The MW is not 100 percent air travel. There are lots and lots of bus trips.

[KSBisonFan]

Have you seen the conferences. Big 10 is from LA to New York. Mountain West is 100% air travel. Only the MAC is a bus league. Besides we want a football only invite


We do? Take your pick of St Thomas, ORU, Denver, UMKC, or Omaha....Who bails on the Summit first? Who's the first to cut programs? Potential replacements are slim to none, unless you're looking forward to the NCC 2.0.

[scottietohottie]

The MW is not 100 percent air travel. There are lots and lots of bus trips.

Yeah from Laramie to Denver.

[bisonaudit]

adding any female sport that no one watches is tough to do financially...especially if it involves horses.

For whatever reason it seems like there are always enough people with pull in Bismarck who are happy to see other people’s money spent on horses.

[MWC]

Yeah from Laramie to Denver.

Reno to San Jose

Reno to Fresno

Reno to Logan

Reno to Boise

Etc..

[NDSU92]

Reno to San Jose

Reno to Fresno

Reno to Logan

Reno to Boise

Etc..

You guys bus to Logan??? and Boise?

[skunkapekiller]

laramie to fort collins
forth collins to afa

[MWC]

You guys bus to Logan??? and Boise?

The football and basketball teams fly but the non revenue teams often go by bus the whole way. Other schools do too. Nothing is all that glamorous in G5 land..

[El_Chapo]

we flying dipshits.

Far to Den...hooks up to anywhere out west.

chartered flights for 5 away football games is a nothing burger. gobble that down.

commercial for all sports. most leagues games are thur/sat no?

NDSU going to MWC OR PAC 4 OR AAC. AND WE ARE GOING ALONE

. just watch

[BigHorns]

We do? Take your pick of St Thomas, ORU, Denver, UMKC, or Omaha....Who bails on the Summit first? Who's the first to cut programs? Potential replacements are slim to none, unless you're looking forward to the NCC 2.0.

Would love to see us join MWC for all sports, but McFeely seems to think the admin views it differently and is content with Summit. He has constantly had the "football only" qualifier on this. Bringing the nonrevenue sports might be too expensive, unless we can bring other schools like SDSU along.

https://twitter.com/McFeely_Inforum/status/1680965712385384448?s=20

[B.Schlossman Fan Club]

Would love to see us join MWC for all sports, but McFeely seems to think the admin views it differently and is content with Summit. He has constantly had the "football only" qualifier on this. Bringing the nonrevenue sports might be too expensive, unless we can bring other schools like SDSU along.

https://twitter.com/McFeely_Inforum/status/1680965712385384448?s=20
Dom Izzo was saying today on his show that the NDSU administration was not very optimistic in the chances for FBS after the PAC fell apart. Sounds like NDSU was waiting for the MWC to lose members and need a backfil. Sounds like they are at least trying

[BigHorns]

Dom Izzo was saying today on his show that the NDSU administration was not very optimistic in the chances for FBS after the PAC fell apart. Sounds like NDSU was waiting for the MWC to lose members and need a backfil. Sounds like they are at least trying

Fate of the PAC4 is still unclear.

Some talks of OSU/WSU to B12 at a partial share, and CaliStan to ACC.

There's also still talk they may try to rebuild PAC with a combo of AAC/MWC teams. They need at least 2 more (6 total) for next year to survive.

[reformedUNDfan]

all they (and me ) are saying is get your (ndsu) crap straight bc unlike 20 years ago the flagship university of North Dakota is ready for business
for a travel partner GF is much much more appealing to whatever conference is calling than Brookings SD....

get your title 9 stuff figured out.

Und is barely an fcs level program. There is no world in which grand forks is more appealing than SDSU

[reformedUNDfan]

Go independent.

[Bison Dan]

Und is barely an fcs level program. There is no world in which grand forks is more appealing than SDSU

I don't understand the delusional und fans about their athletic dept. Look at 2022 which has to be the worst sports year in their history.

[El_Chapo]

Go independent.

Im.down for that

[BISONBRI53]

Und is barely an fcs level program. There is no world in which grand forks is more appealing than SDSU

That is debatable if comparing cities... Both GF and Brookings are SHIT HOLES!!!!

[daddy daycare]

we flying dipshits.

Far to Den...hooks up to anywhere out west.

chartered flights for 5 away football games is a nothing burger. gobble that down.

commercial for all sports. most leagues games are thur/sat no?

NDSU going to MWC OR PAC 4 OR AAC. AND WE ARE GOING ALONE

. just watch

It's hard to understand this isn't about NDSU's travel, isn't it.

[daddy daycare]

The football and basketball teams fly but the non revenue teams often go by bus the whole way. Other schools do too. Nothing is all that glamorous in G5 land..

Whoa. Don't let that cat outta the bag. Chapo has us B12 anyway.

[El_Chapo]

It's hard to understand this isn't about NDSU's travel, isn't it.

travel for FOOTBALL is MEANINGLESS... REPEAT MEANINGLESS.

NDSU charters flights to Springfield Missouri and Youngstown Ohio. dam near the same distance as Fort Collins or UNLV or Wyoming or Boise.

and for the Non Football sports, they fly commercial Far to Den Wed play thurs and sat then fly back. big deal.

[Professorbum]

Dom Izzo was saying today on his show that the NDSU administration was not very optimistic in the chances for FBS after the PAC fell apart. Sounds like NDSU was waiting for the MWC to lose members and need a backfil. Sounds like they are at least trying

Hoping for stars to align is not a plan. Same ol' back-footed, "see how things shake out" approach to FBS as always. What we've always needed, and have always lacked, is a will to go to FBS come hell or high water because we belong there. And have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C to get there. And then go after each plan one by one until we are in FBS. This has never been our mentality.

[GCWaters]

Hoping for stars to align is not a plan. Same ol' back-footed, "see how things shake out" approach to FBS as always. What we've always needed, and have always lacked, is a will to go to FBS come hell or high water because we belong there. And have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C to get there. And then go after each plan one by one until we are in FBS. This has never been our mentality.

It wasn’t our mentality because we didn’t have a president who wanted it…I don’t think that’s changed…

[Professorbum]

It wasn’t our mentality because we didn’t have a president who wanted it…I don’t think that’s changed…

Yep. I agree.

[kab1one]

Doesn't it come down to what a school can bring to a conference in regards to media rights. If the MWC is getting $4 million per school today, NDSU has to have at least that value. What does NDSU generate today with their media package(s)? $1.5-2 million range. As a result from a pure media exposure standpoint NDSU is not a viable option.

Take Stanford and Cal. Why did they get left behind? Not competition or alumni support. But they don't have the media value. Oregon State and Washington State, same issue.

[daddy daycare]

travel for FOOTBALL is MEANINGLESS... REPEAT MEANINGLESS.

NDSU charters flights to Springfield Missouri and Youngstown Ohio. dam near the same distance as Fort Collins or UNLV or Wyoming or Boise.

and for the Non Football sports, they fly commercial Far to Den Wed play thurs and sat then fly back. big deal.

It's hard to imagine someone being so god damn clueless on this, but here we are.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

It wasn’t our mentality because we didn’t have a president who wanted it…I don’t think that’s changed…

So you're saying Cook doesn't want FBS? Doesn't really matter what the AD thinks then, does it, despite all the heat he takes here?

[BigLakeBison]

So you're saying Cook doesn't want FBS? Doesn't really matter what the AD thinks then, does it, despite all the heat he takes here?

My interpretation of things is that Cook is more open to FBS than Bresciani ever was. I think that along with the recent FCS to FBS move ups, the response to Covid from the larger FCS and the continuing decline in fan engagement has made staying in the FCS more risky for NDSU. That is what I think is driving their more public openness to the prospect of moving to FBS. I would agree that ML doesn't deserve the entirety of criticism that he gets. It very well could be that he has been banging the FBS drum behind the scenes and has been met with opposition by higher ups. If that was the case though I would think he would have become very frustrated and likely not want to remain in a position where he feels his opinions regarding the Ath. Dept. don't carry the weight he would like. It is probably more realistic that he shared similar views to the higher ups and didn't think FBS was the right move until recently. I don't know, just speculating.

[skunkapekiller]

so if MWC needs one school.....the commish is gonna call larsen waaaaaay up in nodak instead of calling say UTEP?

[scottietohottie]

so if MWC needs one school.....the commish is gonna call larsen waaaaaay up in nodak instead of calling say UTEP?

701 bro eh

[BigLakeBison]

so if MWC needs one school.....the commish is gonna call larsen waaaaaay up in nodak instead of calling say UTEP?

I'm sure NDSU is 2nd on the list of calls after he reaches out to UND first.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

My interpretation of things is that Cook is more open to FBS than Bresciani ever was. I think that along with the recent FCS to FBS move ups, the response to Covid from the larger FCS and the continuing decline in fan engagement has made staying in the FCS more risky for NDSU. That is what I think is driving their more public openness to the prospect of moving to FBS. I would agree that ML doesn't deserve the entirety of criticism that he gets. It very well could be that he has been banging the FBS drum behind the scenes and has been met with opposition by higher ups. If that was the case though I would think he would have become very frustrated and likely not want to remain in a position where he feels his opinions regarding the Ath. Dept. don't carry the weight he would like. It is probably more realistic that he shared similar views to the higher ups and didn't think FBS was the right move until recently. I don't know, just speculating.

He certainly sounded that way early on, and true, the AD does sound different now

It's funny. I remember Culhane responding to Andy about this very question, saying "it depends if he wants to fight with the school up north"
Maybe Jeff had some insight. Maybe Waters has insight

The CFB landscape is a little unstable right now, so there's that, but NDSU better be sure they stay aligned with the second level of CFB
GT used to say this. Phil said this yesterday
Would take some fortitude for sure, but ...