The Big Five/NCAA/Federal Antitrust law

[Strongman]

It will be really interesting to see if the NCAA dissolves in a few years or the Big 5 start their own association. You cannot have an association in which there are different rules for different teams. NCAA cannot violate federal antitrust laws. You cannot favor the Big Five teams over Boise State, Louisville etc. If the Big Five want to start their own league and playoffs that is one thing. But giving the Big Five an unfair advantage against the other non Big Five teams when they are all vying for the same national playoff title is illegal.

[MAKBison]

I was wondering how that would work. I think the NCAA pretty much has to detach from the B5 or detach from everyone else. Interesting times indeed.

[56BISON73]

It will be really interesting to see if the NCAA dissolves in a few years or the Big 5 start their own association. You cannot have an association in which there are different rules for different teams. NCAA cannot violate federal antitrust laws. You cannot favor the Big Five teams over Boise State, Louisville etc. If the Big Five want to start their own league and playoffs that is one thing. But giving the Big Five an unfair advantage against the other non Big Five teams when they are all vying for the same national playoff title is illegal.

WTF? The NCAA has been that way for years setting up different divisions etc. If the schools dont like it they can disband the NCAA as they are the ones who find it and actually vote on the rules. So there is no anti trust violations. But since you like to beat that drum on occasion why dont you see if you can represent some of these lessor schools and give this anti trust bs a run?

Since the schools voted to give them autonomy I am trying to figure out which leg you are going to stand on?

[SamsRams]

From my understanding Boise and Louisville types can do the exact same things. Thing is they cant afford if so they won't

[MAKBison]

The rub is if they play in the same division. If the B5 create another division and completely separate themselves then there is no rub. However, the way I read the recent decision, the NCAA is just giving the B5 more leeway and not creating a whole new division.




From my understanding Boise and Louisville types can do the exact same things. Thing is they cant afford if so they won't

[56BISON73]

The rub is if they play in the same division. If the B5 create another division and completely separate themselves then there is no rub. However, the way I read the recent decision, the NCAA is just giving the B5 more leeway and not creating a whole new division.

By having different rules they are a different division. Just like FCS 63 full ride schollies vs 85 but are all in D1. Do you really think the lawyers at the NCAA didnt research all of this over the past couple of years this has been in the making?

[MAKBison]

they are not really different if the compete for the same prize......FCS and FBS do not compete for the same prize. be tee dubs...big time corporations have big time lawyers and they still break the law all the time. I am sure there is way to spin this, but I am also sure it would be challenged. The fix is just to create another subdivision


By having different rules they are a different division. Just like FCS 63 full ride schollies vs 85 but are all in D1. Do you really think the lawyers at the NCAA didnt research all of this over the past couple of years this has been in the making?

[SamsRams]

The rub is if they play in the same division. If the B5 create another division and completely separate themselves then there is no rub. However, the way I read the recent decision, the NCAA is just giving the B5 more leeway and not creating a whole new division.

I think that is wrong. Any FBS conference has the same leeway. Only the B5 have the capital to fully take advantage of it. Mountain west can go step for step with the sec in any new rule they want to implement. Its just not gonna happen.

[MAKBison]

I guess maybe if they all have the same leeway. .....Ill have to think about it some more.....in any sense it will be interesting.


I think that is wrong. Any FBS conference has the same leeway. Only the B5 have the capital to fully take advantage of it. Mountain west can go step for step with the sec in any new rule they want to implement. Its just not gonna happen.

[56BISON73]

they are not really different if the compete for the same prize......FCS and FBS do not compete for the same prize. be tee dubs...big time corporations have big time lawyers and they still break the law all the time. I am sure there is way to spin this, but I am also sure it would be challenged. The fix is just to create another subdivision

They wont compete for the same prize. But it makes no difference. The schools voted for this. So you think the schools are going to turn around and sue themselves? Really?

[SamsRams]

They wont compete for the same prize. But it makes no difference. The schools voted for this. So you think the schools are turn going to turn around and sue themselves? Really?

Totally true. They are not going to cut off their nose to spite their face. Both sides want March Madness to continue which is why they stay in NCAA.

[MAKBison]

Thats true I guess its just more of the same the in the NCAA the rich get richer


Totally true. They are not going to cut off their nose to spite their face. Both sides want March Madness to continue which is why they stay in NCAA.

[StL Bison Fan]

So, is the NCAA for amateur athletes? If they receive actual money are they not professionals. Was this in the anti trust?

[westnodak93bison]

Totally true. They are not going to cut off their nose to spite their face. Both sides want March Madness to continue which is why they stay in NCAA.
I find it hard to believe they can have playoffs for all sports but a bs big boy exclusive club for football. I'm not a legal mind but that stinks to high heaven. All it will take is the right political pressure to push fb toward a real playoff. It already has started and I can't wait for the odd 5th team to be left out especially with several one loss teams stating their case and the perceived "4th" seed winning the championship on the field. One thing most are ignoring is most big boy football schools and bowl power brokers are old white men and we all know the media hates the good ole boy clubs.

[onbison09]

This isn't as big of a deal for the NCAA as people are saying it is. Good summary here. http://www.vox.com/2014/8/10/5985743/ed-obannon-lawsuit-ncaa-college-athletes-paid

[BlueBisonRock]

I find it hard to believe they can have playoffs for all sports but a bs big boy exclusive club for football. I'm not a legal mind but that stinks to high heaven. All it will take is the right political pressure to push fb toward a real playoff. It already has started and I can't wait for the odd 5th team to be left out especially with several one loss teams stating their case and the perceived "4th" seed winning the championship on the field. One thing most are ignoring is most big boy football schools and bowl power brokers are old white men and we all know the media hates the good ole boy clubs.

I personally do not have an issue with old white men. I may have an issue with the program's implementation.

However, you are correct. The media seems to have this opinion about old white men.

Just sayin'.

[56BISON73]

I find it hard to believe they can have playoffs for all sports but a bs big boy exclusive club for football. I'm not a legal mind but that stinks to high heaven. All it will take is the right political pressure to push fb toward a real playoff. It already has started and I can't wait for the odd 5th team to be left out especially with several one loss teams stating their case and the perceived "4th" seed winning the championship on the field. One thing most are ignoring is most big boy football schools and bowl power brokers are old white men and we all know the media hates the good ole boy clubs.

You have to remember back to how the BCS started. 1 The NCAA doesnt own or run the bowl system. The NCAA only sanctioned the bowl games. 2 Political pressure was brought to bear because some teams werent where some thought they should in the pecking order for the bowls. 3 So the BCS was invented. The NCAA did not run the BCS either. 4 Because the BCS sucks and again political pressure pushed it to form an assemblance of a playoff. Remember they will not be bullied because they are still trying to save the sacred money cow bowl system. 5 They know they will eventually have to go to a full playoff but they have to make sure that only those teams with in the power group benefit. Hence the latest move to autonomy for the big boys.

[tony]

You have to remember back to how the BCS started. 1 The NCAA doesnt own or run the bowl system. The NCAA only sanctioned the bowl games. 2 Political pressure was brought to bear because some teams werent where some thought they should in the pecking order for the bowls. 3 So the BCS was invented. The NCAA did not run the BCS either. 4 Because the BCS sucks and again political pressure pushed it to form an assemblance of a playoff. Remember they will not be bullied because they are still trying to save the sacred money cow bowl system. 5 They know they will eventually have to go to a full playoff but they have to make sure that only those teams with in the power group benefit. Hence the latest move to autonomy for the big boys.

The NCAA membership really needs to consider a model that does not include the P5 at all. A system where the P5 controls all the money as well as postseason access is not sustainable.

[bisonaudit]

The NCAA membership really needs to consider a model that does not include the P5 at all. A system where the P5 controls all the money as well as postseason access is not sustainable.

This is where the argument turns to basketball. Because the tournament makes so much money for everyone that the mid major conferences are willing to give up authority to the power 65 in order to keep the money flowing.

[tony]

This is where the argument turns to basketball. Because the tournament makes so much money for everyone that the mid major conferences are willing to give up authority to the power 65 in order to keep the money flowing.

They should crunch the numbers. Yeah, the basketball tournament makes a lot of money... but what percentage of it goes to the non-P5 right now? And do you think that percentage is going to go up or down?

[bisonaudit]

They should crunch the numbers. Yeah, the basketball tournament makes a lot of money... but what percentage of it goes to the non-P5 right now? And do you think that percentage is going to go up or down?

i think the correct comparison would be to what you think you can get for the TV rights to a competing tournament featuring teams from the AAC and down?

[tony]

i think the correct comparison would be to what you think you can get for the TV rights to a competing tournament featuring teams from the AAC and down?

I bet that the TV rights for a 300-team NCAA tourney would end up being very close to a P5 BB tournamen from day 1.

You've got it switched around: The P5 would be the ones sponsoring a competing tournament. Good luck with that PR job, btw: "It's college basketball. Except the students are majoring in pre-NBA. And we're paying them."

Anyway, the entire Summit League gets about $180k per member per year from the current setup so, for all the talk about how much money the NCAA BB tourney makes, it's not like there's really that much to lose. The NCAA tournament would still be very compelling. I'm not so sure about the semi-pro P5.

[bisonaudit]

I bet that the TV rights for a 300-team NCAA tourney would end up being very close to a P5 BB tournamen from day 1.

You've got it switched around: The P5 would be the ones sponsoring a competing tournament. Good luck with that PR job, btw: "It's college basketball. Except the students are majoring in pre-NBA. And we're paying them."

Anyway, the entire Summit League gets about $180k per member per year from the current setup so, for all the talk about how much money the NCAA BB tourney makes, it's not like there's really that much to lose. The NCAA tournament would still be very compelling. I'm not so sure about the semi-pro P5.

One and done hasn't made people stop caring. When Duke plays UNC the people who care are not going to stop caring over guaranteed scholarships, insurance, and pizza money.

[tony]

One and done hasn't made people stop caring. When Duke plays UNC the people who care are not going to stop caring over guaranteed scholarships, insurance, and pizza money.

And I'm not seeing what that caring does for the non-P5.

An all-P5 basketball tournament will make the P5 conference tournaments a lot less attractive product. Even Duke v UNC is going to lose a lot of luster somewhere along the line if they keep meeting four times a year. And they won't be able to inflate their tourney records on a succession of 15 and 16 seeds.

Cutting the P5 loose has to be an option for the NCAA because the P5 doesn't know how to stop and it doesn't know where its going. They could easily end up like greedy pigs following a trail of slop over the edge of a cliff. Or Mr. Creosote. Take your pick.

[Strongman]

WTF? The NCAA has been that way for years setting up different divisions etc. If the schools dont like it they can disband the NCAA as they are the ones who find it and actually vote on the rules. So there is no anti trust violations. But since you like to beat that drum on occasion why dont you see if you can represent some of these lessor schools and give this anti trust bs a run?

Since the schools voted to give them autonomy I am trying to figure out which leg you are going to stand on?

You are an attorney now?

THE NCAA voted to give them autonomy. The vote is coming later on. Unless there are ZERO no votes, it is a violation of federal antitrust.

There are 11 conferences in Big Boy Football. In theory, all teams in all 11 football conferences are vying for one of the four play off berths. But now, the NCAA HAS CREATED RULES WHEREIN the the Big 5 conferences can create their own rules: to wit: pay their players, etc. etc. Instead of the playoffs, in theory, being decided by merit and wins on the field, THE NCAA HAS CREATED UNFAIR COMPETITION. Boise State is not able to join the Big 5. Hence, it cannot pay its players. Hence, it is at an unfair advantage and less likely to be able to compete for the 4 playoff berths in the future.

It's the epitome of unfair competition.

[bisonaudit]

You are an attorney now?

THE NCAA voted to give them autonomy. The vote is coming later on. Unless there are ZERO no votes, it is a violation of federal antitrust.

There are 11 conferences in Big Boy Football. In theory, all teams in all 11 football conferences are vying for one of the four play off berths. But now, the NCAA HAS CREATED RULES WHEREIN the the Big 5 conferences can create their own rules: to wit: pay their players, etc. etc. Instead of the playoffs, in theory, being decided by merit and wins on the field, THE NCAA HAS CREATED UNFAIR COMPETITION. Boise State is not able to join the Big 5. Hence, it cannot pay its players. Hence, it is at an unfair advantage and less likely to be able to compete for the 4 playoff berths in the future.

It's the epitome of unfair competition.

This is like saying it's unfair that the Yankees and Dodgers have so much more money than any other baseball team. It's not an anti-trust violation. It's just whining.

What is an anti-trust violation is the NCAA acting like a price fixing cartel when it comes to remunerating players. The O'Bannon case just said so.

[Hammersmith]

You are an attorney now?

THE NCAA voted to give them autonomy. The vote is coming later on. Unless there are ZERO no votes, it is a violation of federal antitrust.

There are 11 conferences in Big Boy Football. In theory, all teams in all 11 football conferences are vying for one of the four play off berths. But now, the NCAA HAS CREATED RULES WHEREIN the the Big 5 conferences can create their own rules: to wit: pay their players, etc. etc. Instead of the playoffs, in theory, being decided by merit and wins on the field, THE NCAA HAS CREATED UNFAIR COMPETITION. Boise State is not able to join the Big 5. Hence, it cannot pay its players. Hence, it is at an unfair advantage and less likely to be able to compete for the 4 playoff berths in the future.

It's the epitome of unfair competition.

Where have you heard that the G5 schools will be unable to use the new P5 rules? Everything I've heard suggests the rules will be opt-in. If a conference wants to let their schools pay their players, they will be able to.

[SamsRams]

Where have you heard that the G5 schools will be unable to use the new P5 rules? Everything I've heard suggests the rules will be opt-in. If a conference wants to let their schools pay their players, they will be able to.

Who are you to use common sense and actual facts. Doesn mattet if boise state and the mountain west can implement the same rules as the P5. Strongman says they cant so his imagination over rules the real rules

[SamsRams]

You are an attorney now?

THE NCAA voted to give them autonomy. The vote is coming later on. Unless there are ZERO no votes, it is a violation of federal antitrust.

There are 11 conferences in Big Boy Football. In theory, all teams in all 11 football conferences are vying for one of the four play off berths. But now, the NCAA HAS CREATED RULES WHEREIN the the Big 5 conferences can create their own rules: to wit: pay their players, etc. etc. Instead of the playoffs, in theory, being decided by merit and wins on the field, THE NCAA HAS CREATED UNFAIR COMPETITION. Boise State is not able to join the Big 5. Hence, it cannot pay its players. Hence, it is at an unfair advantage and less likely to be able to compete for the 4 playoff berths in the future.

It's the epitome of unfair competition.

This is awesome. So can I sue Warren Buffet for having more money than me. Its unfair!!

[BlueBisonRock]

Another compensation suit in the works. This one is in the name of a UNTexas (http://www.startribune.com/local/270772621.html) scholarship player. The suit calls out illegal price fixing and is positioned as a class action suit.

[westnodak93bison]

This is awesome. So can I sue Warren Buffet for having more money than me. Its unfair!!
Yes you can. However is is unlikely that you would win.

[56BISON73]

You are an attorney now?

THE NCAA voted to give them autonomy. The vote is coming later on. Unless there are ZERO no votes, it is a violation of federal antitrust.

There are 11 conferences in Big Boy Football. In theory, all teams in all 11 football conferences are vying for one of the four play off berths. But now, the NCAA HAS CREATED RULES WHEREIN the the Big 5 conferences can create their own rules: to wit: pay their players, etc. etc. Instead of the playoffs, in theory, being decided by merit and wins on the field, THE NCAA HAS CREATED UNFAIR COMPETITION. Boise State is not able to join the Big 5. Hence, it cannot pay its players. Hence, it is at an unfair advantage and less likely to be able to compete for the 4 playoff berths in the future.

It's the epitome of unfair competition.

Too bad you aren't an attourney. If you were you would realize you don't have a leg to stand on. You've beaten the anti trust drum before but for some reason it just doesn't seem to play out does it.

[Strongman]

Too bad you aren't an attourney. If you were you would realize you don't have a leg to stand on. You've beaten the anti trust drum before but for some reason it just doesn't seem to play out does it.

You can see me at the Cass County Courthouse @ 1:30 p.m. today and marvel at me, if you wish. LOL

Federal lawsuits take years to come to fruition. And the suit is not ripe until after the vote is final.

[56BISON73]

You can see me at the Cass County Courthouse @ 1:30 p.m. today and marvel at me, if you wish. LOL

Federal lawsuits take years to come to fruition. And the suit is not ripe until after the vote is final.

So what are you charged with? Credit card fraud?