MAC or Summit?

[fbmind]

Based off Ohio's rumored interest in Saul Phillips, I thought it would be interesting to pose the question, which league is actually better for basketball? Or to phrase it another way, would Ohio actually be a step-up for Saul? And for the sake of this argument, please do not discuss $$. I know that Ohio can pay a lot more. Instead, let's just discuss the merits of the league, the schools, etc and which job is actually better. Interested to hear others thoughts and I will weigh in later.

[El_Chapo]

MAC is in the next 5 after the Big 5. Summit isnt.
MAC has cross rivals in football/basketball
MAC has a tv contract
MAC is an established conference without a merry go round

[HoopsBison]

Both tend to be one bid leagues, MAC schools have more resources. Also take Ohio specifically and look at the past coaches and the success they had at Ohio and where there coaching now, all high majors. Its definitely not a bad job in my mind.

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[NDSUstudent]

Since 2008-2009 the Summit does have a winning record vs the MAC. It is a better league but not by much. It does get a few games on ESPN networks and is more stable. Still just one bid though. Like I said in a different thread it isn't like moving into the Mountain West, where you have very solid basketball schools and are in a league that can get four or five bids in good years.

The Summit with a four schools getting new arenas and with ORU coming back could give it a run.

[ndsubison1]

Ohio is a step up from us. Mac is a slight step above Summit. Ohio went to the Sweet 16 a few years ago

[NDSUstudent]

Groce did take them to the sweet 16 but outside of his run they haven't really done much. Four NCAA appearances in 25 years.

It is a step up though, bigger budget. With the SHAC NDSU might have a better facility, Ohio's arena is huge but it is old.

Really NDSU needs to figure out what it wants to be. If we want to be a mid-major that is consistently winning we will need to improve our budget. Paying our HC $180k is not going to cut it. Too many schools pay more....just look at the breakdown from USA Today....http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/salaries/ncaab/coach/

[Hammersmith]

I think the last time the MAC had more than one bid was about 1999. Fifteen years, give or take a year. Don't think you can call them a multi-bid league anymore. Does that make them a low-major?



(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[unbison]

Wonder what would happen if we got Saul to the 300k mark .... Would he stay until he got a big offer?

[NDSUstudent]

Wonder what would happen if we got Saul to the 300k mark .... Would he stay until he got a big offer?

I've had those same thoughts as well. I think he might. Big raise, he seems to love it here and of course the new arena. Would love to see Saul build with the momentum he has created.

[North Side]

The Summit is really growing and improving! Look at all the new arenas the Summit with have in the next 3 years, Also NDSU actually won a game in the tourmanent the MAC did not. I actaully think 5 to 10 years from now the MAC and Summit could be equal if not the Summit is better. It just depends on if conference shifts happen.

[ndsubison1]

none of the mac schools have really left the conference recently other than Marshall back in 05. conferences havent really looked at those schools. although cusa could if more shift happens

[BisBison]

Groce did take them to the sweet 16 but outside of his run they haven't really done much. Four NCAA appearances in 25 years.

It is a step up though, bigger budget. With the SHAC NDSU might have a better facility, Ohio's arena is huge but it is old.

Really NDSU needs to figure out what it wants to be. If we want to be a mid-major that is consistently winning we will need to improve our budget. Paying our HC $180k is not going to cut it. Too many schools pay more....just look at the breakdown from USA Today....http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/salaries/ncaab/coach/

Really, we've been in D-1 for what 6 years? Our athletic budget has gone from $5M to $17M during that time. Pretty impressive me thinks. We do that in the next 6 years and we'll be looking at a $45M budget. We don't do this in one year, we gotta have patience.

[NDSUstudent]

Really, we've been in D-1 for what 6 years? Our athletic budget has gone from $5M to $17M during that time. Pretty impressive me thinks. We do that in the next 6 years and we'll be looking at a $45M budget. We don't do this in one year, we gotta have patience.

Yes, really. I think we have some sports in the right place, now we need to get men's basketball there.

I'm not asking for this massive budget but after seeing the USA Today list I think we need step up our game a bit. Seeing what some of these other coaches are making is a bit eye opening. I think our HC should be in the $250-300k range.

[BisBison]

Yes, really. I think we have some sports in the right place, now we need to get men's basketball there.

I'm not asking for this massive budget but after seeing the USA Today list I think we need step up our game a bit. Seeing what some of these other coaches are making is a bit eye opening. I think our HC should be in the $250-300k range.

I can agree with that and I think we'll be there in two to three years. When the SHAC is complete I think more $$$ will be available.

[NDSUstudent]

I can agree with that and I think we'll be there in two to three years. When the SHAC is complete I think more $$$ will be available.

Well for now we have an extra $30-40k to work with for the next what 6 years due to winning a game in the tournament. That should help.

[unbison]

Saul should make 300k at ndsu

[BisBison]

Saul should make 300k at ndsu

Then what do we pay Coach K? And after that how do we balance the budget?

[NDSUstudent]

Then what do we pay Coach K? And after that how do we balance the budget?

Well K makes $326k with base, media and camps. He and his staff are in the top 10% of the FCS.

Not sure what Saul gets for media and camps, I'm sure it is way less but I've never seen it reported. Would be interesting to get a full breakdown like we have gotten for Bohl and coach K.

[ZHerd]

I think the Summit is an up and coming league and NDSU Bball an up and coming program. I have never seen the NDSU athletic budget with all expenditures listed but I really doubt that 300k for Saul is unrealistic. It will be interesting to see the increase in revenue that men's BBall brings in to the school over the next decade. Our basketball fan base is going to climb big time if we can keep winning.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I didn't know the MAC was looking at us........I like to deal with the real world. Just like I would rather get laid than whack off to the same picture 50 times.......

[No_Skill]

I didn't know the MAC was looking at us........I like to deal with the real world. Just like I would rather get laid than whack off to the same picture 50 times.......

Picture? ...you're doing it wrong. :)

[NWNDBison]

Really, we've been in D-1 for what 6 years? Our athletic budget has gone from $5M to $17M during that time. Pretty impressive me thinks. We do that in the next 6 years and we'll be looking at a $45M budget. We don't do this in one year, we gotta have patience.

^^^This!!!^^^

[NWNDBison]

Saul made what, $175,000 I think, this year? Talk of needing BB coach at $300,000. I think we need to get there real fast with Saul getting $550,000 at Ohio.

[Hammersmith]

Saul made what, $175,000 I think, this year? Talk of needing BB coach at $300,000. I think we need to get there real fast with Saul getting $550,000 at Ohio.

With bonuses, I think Saul made very close to $200k this year. Maybe $185k-$195k. (I say this because his 5-year contract was said to be worth over $1M if he hit all bonuses.)

[tjbison]

it's really sad with our states financial balloon we are losing coaches to schools like Wyoming and Ohio University

we are way better than this, we have Football into the 260K($326,000 with bonuses) range lets put Mens BBall there also

I'm happy for him, but we need to step up. but sadly our state leaders and University system is well....

[ndsansa]

MAC vs Summit...Saul could have left to be a top assistant in one of the big 5 conferences for more money. Assistant pay has skyrocketed in the major conferences. Craig Smith made more as an assistant at Nebraska then Saul did last year. He was the lowest paid assistant on the staff and that deal included a vehicle and country club membership. Until the Summit can catch up to the MAC in coaching pay, the Summit will always just be a stepping stone league. Same issue in football.

[tjbison]

MAC vs Summit...Saul could have left to be a top assistant in one of the big 5 conferences for more money. Assistant pay has skyrocketed in the major conferences. Craig Smith made more as an assistant at Nebraska then Saul did last year. He was the lowest paid assistant on the staff and that deal included a vehicle and country club membership. Until the Summit can catch up to the MAC in coaching pay, the Summit will always just be a stepping stone league. Same issue in football.


Ohio is also a stepping stone to the Power Conferences.....they are NOT a powerhouse in either FB or Basketball, I know they are not terrible either, but my point isn't bashing Ohio it's bashing our State compared to the rest ofthe world when it comes to their Universities

hell Illinois has Legislators wanting to boost a university to get them in a higher profile league.....hmmm. It can be done in ND too but we would rather ride the coattails of NDSU and UND for that matter in any success they have and National recognition than give help support them.

[El_Chapo]

Mac 2 1/2 times better right saul's checkbook?
Ndsu basketball would be better in Mac or Mwc

[HerdBot]

I think the teams summit is just as good, possibly better than the MAC...

BUT...

...until the teams in the conference can figure out how to sell tickets, increase budgets, get a tv contract, pay coaches, and have a big time image... we will be a weak ass conference. Some of the teams draw like flies and that reeks of small time. But things are improving until someone steals another team. We have to get out the Summit and get an invite to a real conference like the MVC, Mountain West, or MAC. Heck the Horizon could be better but maybe not. Not sure how to do it but it starts with committing money to basketball and not by taking it away from football. This is a #2 sport for us. We do a shitty job as a conference. It's D2 level stuff. The only positive of the conference is rivals with SDSU/USD, a near by conference tournament (but we don't get any tickets anyway), and a better than average chance of making the big dance. We're rarely on TV. Nobody outside of the Dakotas can name a team in the conference outside of Oral Roberts. If we can't' make the big dance regularly the conference is worthless in my opinion. And if we site travel costs as a reason, we have no intention of being big time. Being in the Summitt reminds of the days in football with the Great West except most of us knew the teams in the Great West. Who the fuck is IPFW and IUPUI.

The league is so bush league their website is down and I find info to further my argument. :facepalm: http://www.thesummitleague.org

[silkamilkamonico]

I think the teams summit is just as good, possibly better than the MAC...

BUT...

...until the teams in the conference can figure out how to sell tickets, increase budgets, get a tv contract, pay coaches, and have a big time image... we will be a weak ass conference. Some of the teams draw like flies and that reeks of small time. But things are improving until someone steals another team. We have to get out the Summit and get an invite to a real conference like the MVC, Mountain West, or MAC. Heck the Horizon could be better but maybe not. Not sure how to do it but it starts with committing money to basketball and not by taking it away from football. This is a #2 sport for us. We do a shitty job as a conference. It's D2 level stuff. The only positive of the conference is rivals with SDSU/USD, a near by conference tournament (but we don't get any tickets anyway), and a better than average chance of making the big dance. We're rarely on TV. Nobody outside of the Dakotas can name a team in the conference outside of Oral Roberts. If we can't' make the big dance regularly the conference is worthless in my opinion. And if we site travel costs as a reason, we have no intention of being big time. Being in the Summitt reminds of the days in football with the Great West except most of us knew the teams in the Great West. Who the fuck is IPFW and IUPUI.

The league is so bush league their website is down and I find info to further my argument. :facepalm: http://www.thesummitleague.org

The conferences you mentioned dont exactly want ndsu so our we dont exactly have a lot of options right now

[HoopsBison]

MAC vs Summit...Saul could have left to be a top assistant in one of the big 5 conferences for more money. Assistant pay has skyrocketed in the major conferences. Craig Smith made more as an assistant at Nebraska then Saul did last year. He was the lowest paid assistant on the staff and that deal included a vehicle and country club membership. Until the Summit can catch up to the MAC in coaching pay, the Summit will always just be a stepping stone league. Same issue in football.

Craig was miles right hand man and top asst are you sure he was the lowest paid guy on staff? That would surprise me...

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[Strongman]

We only draw 3000 for basketball. And our new arena is only going to hold 6000. So the fact is that we are stuck in the Summit. But we should move up and join a football only conference.

[1998braves64]

We only draw 3000 for basketball. And our new arena is only going to hold 6000. So the fact is that we are stuck in the Summit. But we should move up and join a football only conference.

Is someone cracking?? Thought we were all about shooting for the stars here!! /purple

Why can't basketball move up with a "smaller" arena if football can do it so can basketball? There is $10 billion being spent daily out in western ND just waiting for Teammakers to show up to stroke an ego and so they can get their cut of the pie. Seriously though if football does it I want bball right there with them if possible. It would be nice to have the same teams come and play bball as they do football, a bigger buzz creator if you ask me. That said the Summit/MVFC marriage has treated us well but then they're somewhat tied together anyway. That would not be the case with FBS conference and Summit.

[NDSUstudent]

How big is a Gonzaga's arena? 6k seats.....I rest my case.

If we pack the SHAC we could have something special. That place is going to be loud, a really fun basketball environment. Everything we don't have now.

[56BISON73]

We only draw 3000 for basketball. And our new arena is only going to hold 6000. So the fact is that we are stuck in the Summit. But we should move up and join a football only conference.

Cant believe you finally thought of that.:rofl:

[HoopsBison]

How big is a Gonzaga's arena? 6k seats.....I rest my case.

If we pack the SHAC we could have something special. That place is going to be loud, a really fun basketball environment. Everything we don't have now.

Saint Mary's is tiny as well, I don't think it's over 4k.

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[yukon]

I never understood why the conference changed the name from Mid-Con to Summit. Growing up, I always knew of the Mid-Con, the Mid-Con had name recognition, the Summit is just another conference no one knows about.