Rules Lesson

[IndyBison]

When I first started officiating football the first thing I learned was how little I knew the rules. When I watched games I realized why I didn't know the rules. Most of my knowledge came from announcers. Who knew they didn't know the rules. It also helped me realize I don't know basketball or baseball rules. I'll see calls that I think are wrong, but realize even a bad basketball official knows the rules better than me.

This is a good blog that points out some of those misunderstandings in basketball. I never knew there wasn't a foul for "over-the-back". Thanks again announcers.

http://www.bordaslaw.com/blog/2014/02/the-most-misunderstood-rules-in-basketball-stop-yelling-at-the-officials-youre-wrong.shtml

[AjaxTheMighty]

When I first started officiating football the first thing I learned was how little I knew the rules. When I watched games I realized why I didn't know the rules. Most of my knowledge came from announcers. Who knew they didn't know the rules. It also helped me realize I don't know basketball or baseball rules. I'll see calls that I think are wrong, but realize even a bad basketball official knows the rules better than me.

This is a good blog that points out some of those misunderstandings in basketball. I never knew there wasn't a foul for "over-the-back". Thanks again announcers.

http://www.bordaslaw.com/blog/2014/02/the-most-misunderstood-rules-in-basketball-stop-yelling-at-the-officials-youre-wrong.shtml

This is great info. I didn't know any of that. I am coaching youth basketball and not only do the fans not know these things, but coaches and refs don't either.

[ndsubison1]

When I first started officiating football the first thing I learned was how little I knew the rules. When I watched games I realized why I didn't know the rules. Most of my knowledge came from announcers. Who knew they didn't know the rules. It also helped me realize I don't know basketball or baseball rules. I'll see calls that I think are wrong, but realize even a bad basketball official knows the rules better than me.

This is a good blog that points out some of those misunderstandings in basketball. I never knew there wasn't a foul for "over-the-back". Thanks again announcers.

http://www.bordaslaw.com/blog/2014/02/the-most-misunderstood-rules-in-basketball-stop-yelling-at-the-officials-youre-wrong.shtml

even in high school i shook my head at fans that complained about "over the back". also most people think traveling is the number of steps when the officials are only looking at the pivot foot (other than nba). plus if a player doesnt have possession of the ball it is not a travel. also same confusion with block/charge calls. there are lots of rules that fans and even announcers do not know of or misinterpret. ill go as far as saying even players dont know ALL of the exact rules either

[NFH Schlüssel]

...but realize even a bad basketball official knows the rules better than me.



Don't be to sure of that says a former bad basketball official. Our rules meetings were more a social event.

[IndyBison]

even in high school i shook my head at fans that complained about "over the back". also most people think traveling is the number of steps when the officials are only looking at the pivot foot (other than nba). plus if a player doesnt have possession of the ball it is not a travel. also same confusion with block/charge calls. there are lots of rules that fans and even announcers do not know of or misinterpret. ill go as far as saying even players dont know ALL of the exact rules either

I guarantee you coaches and players also don't know the rules. I base that on the comments and questions I get from players.

The biggest thing this writer talks about that applies to all sports is philosophy. It is a huge part of officiating and unless you have invested time as an official AFTER learning the rules, then you will not understand these. It's not because you are stupid. It's because you don't have the context of the rules and experience applying those rules on the field/court/arena. It's a never-ending learning process.

[Mayville Bison]

I guarantee you coaches and players also don't know the rules. I base that on the comments and questions I get from players.

The biggest thing this writer talks about that applies to all sports is philosophy. It is a huge part of officiating and unless you have invested time as an official AFTER learning the rules, then you will not understand these. It's not because you are stupid. It's because you don't have the context of the rules and experience applying those rules on the field/court/arena. It's a never-ending learning process.

The philosophy is a big part of why officials get a bad rap as it may lead to a foul being called on one team but not the other. I agree with the advantage/disadvantage philosophy, but it will always be the part that is most criticized.

Thanks for posting this! I would love to see one from the other major sports as well (maybe I'll do some searching). The traveling part was very interesting and that is the first time I've seen the diving for the ball clearly explained.

[Bison03]

I don't care what that article says. I am right and I'm going to yell at the ref and let him know that!!!!

[bisonsupporter]

This would be good for a beginner class. I would agree that some fans have a misinturpretation of the rules. However, I highly doubt coaches above the junior high level don't know the rules. Officiating is judgemental calls.
Did the offensive player gain an advantage by moving into the defensive player or did the defensive player gain an advantage by moving into the offensive player?
Yes the defender is allowed to move, but the player can not move into the defender (slide under as offensive player is in the air) or "ride" the offensive player.
What do you consider possession of the basketball in regards to traveling? At least one hand on the ball at a rest? How about a player "bobbling" the ball but yet controling where it goes? How long does the ball have to rest on a hand or finger for it to be possessed?

[MrAugustana]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing this.

One call that hasn't been discussed on his blog yet is the over-and-back call. I feel like that's a call that consistently gets called incorrectly. Either the official doesn't call it when it's a clear over-and-back violation, or the player doesn't necessarily go over-and-back but because of how his feet are positioned when receiving the ball, the ref assumes it should be called. Just a personal complaint of mine. Seems like there's never much consistency with over-and-back (other than it is consistently mis-called).

Thanks again for posting this.

[Mayville Bison]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing this.

One call that hasn't been discussed on his blog yet is the over-and-back call. I feel like that's a call that consistently gets called incorrectly. Either the official doesn't call it when it's a clear over-and-back violation, or the player doesn't necessarily go over-and-back but because of how his feet are positioned when receiving the ball, the ref assumes it should be called. Just a personal complaint of mine. Seems like there's never much consistency with over-and-back (other than it is consistently mis-called).

Thanks again for posting this.

What is the actual ruling on this these days? I was taught the 2/3 rule - there are 3 points you should watch: 2 feet and the ball. You can have one of them cross the line and it's still ok, but as soon as the second one happens, then it's a violation.

No idea if that's still the way it is still done.

[IndyBison]

This would be good for a beginner class. I would agree that some fans have a misinturpretation of the rules. However, I highly doubt coaches above the junior high level don't know the rules. Officiating is judgemental calls.

Coaches don't know the rules at the professional and D1 level. They may have a better understanding than the average fan but they still don't KNOW the rules. Someone officiating at that level has lived and breathed rules study, philosophy, video review specifically from an officiating standpoint (like a player or coach looks at it from their perspective), and seeing thousands of plays. I don't expect coaches to KNOW the rules that well.

I've worked D1 scrimmages and they ask a lot of questions to try to understand the rules. My NFL friends say the same thing. Based on the things I see Jim Harbaugh complain about I know he doesn't know the rules.

[ndsubison1]

Coaches don't know the rules at the professional and D1 level. They may have a better understanding than the average fan but they still don't KNOW the rules. Someone officiating at that level has lived and breathed rules study, philosophy, video review specifically from an officiating standpoint (like a player or coach looks at it from their perspective), and seeing thousands of plays. I don't expect coaches to KNOW the rules that well.

I've worked D1 scrimmages and they ask a lot of questions to try to understand the rules. My NFL friends say the same thing. Based on the things I see Jim Harbaugh complain about I know he doesn't know the rules.

Indy what is your opinion on having seperate replay officials for college basketball like football? i just feel like teams at times get extra time outs because of it. feel like it could be more efficient

[MrAugustana]

What is the actual ruling on this these days? I was taught the 2/3 rule - there are 3 points you should watch: 2 feet and the ball. You can have one of them cross the line and it's still ok, but as soon as the second one happens, then it's a violation.

No idea if that's still the way it is still done.

This blog post tries to explain the rule (I think it applies to any level, but I'm not 100% sure... I didn't look quite that closely into it): http://www.athletic-officials.com/basketball/advanced-officiating/rule-9-9-backcourt-violation/

The bottom line is it's clear to me that officiating is much more complicated and challenging than I would ever want to deal with.

[MrAugustana]

Here's another example of the backcourt violation being called incorrectly (on Kevin Durant): http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/04/28/durants-non-backcourt-violation-explained/

The call was eventually overturned, from what the article says. I feel like this might be the most frequently incorrectly called version of a backcourt violation.

[IndyBison]

Indy what is your opinion on having seperate replay officials for college basketball like football? i just feel like teams at times get extra time outs because of it. feel like it could be more efficient

I'm fine either way. There are pros and cons to both. Regardless you are going to give a team a time out. The only way they could prevent it would be to make the players stay in the middle of the court. They could still huddle and strategize though.

[wow]

This would be good for a beginner class. I would agree that some fans have a misinturpretation of the rules. However, I highly doubt coaches above the junior high level don't know the rules. Officiating is judgemental calls.
Did the offensive player gain an advantage by moving into the defensive player or did the defensive player gain an advantage by moving into the offensive player?
Yes the defender is allowed to move, but the player can not move into the defender (slide under as offensive player is in the air) or "ride" the offensive player.
What do you consider possession of the basketball in regards to traveling? At least one hand on the ball at a rest? How about a player "bobbling" the ball but yet controling where it goes? How long does the ball have to rest on a hand or finger for it to be possessed?

100% of coaches will tell you they know the rules. But I would be surprised if half of high school coaches have ever cracked open a rule book, much less read the whole thing even 1 time.

The 13-14 rule book I have is over 80 pages long. The case book that compliments it is also over 80. There is also an officials manual that is over 80 pages.

New books come out every year, and there are usually a number of changes as well as significant differences between the high school, college, and pro game rules.

If anyone has access to a rule book, read through it sometime. It was a pretty big eye opener for me, and I played the game competitively from 5th grade to sophomore in college.

[BadlandsBison]

100% of coaches will tell you they know the rules. But I would be surprised if half of high school coaches have ever cracked open a rule book, much less read the whole thing even 1 time.

The 13-14 rule book I have is over 80 pages long. The case book that compliments it is also over 80. There is also an officials manual that is over 80 pages.

New books come out every year, and there are usually a number of changes as well as significant differences between the high school, college, and pro game rules.

If anyone has access to a rule book, read through it sometime. It was a pretty big eye opener for me, and I played the game competitively from 5th grade to sophomore in college.

Maybe they need to define the word "competitive" in the rule book :)

[BisonTeacher]

One of the things that always gets to me, is that in Minnesota they make coaches attend a rules meeting each year. They usually stress their points of emphasis. Then when we get in games...the refs/umpires don't call the rules. The reason? Nobody calls that rule. Then why make we go sit through a meeting about it?

Some examples from basketball and softball.

pitching regulations in softball. Most umpires refuse to enforce them.

I also have the opposite experience in that...Just yesterday I had a ref call "over the back"

The other one that makes me lose my mind on an umpire is when they don't know how big the batters box is. THEN......their solution is to go up and put a bat in front of the plate. I almost got kicked out of a game for protesting this once.

Also...consistency...Im fine if your strike zone is different...just call it both ways. Or if you are calling something a foul for one team...it better be for the other team as well. When a ref says to me..."The fouls are equal coach...look at the book"...again...lose my mind. Just because the number of fouls on each team is equal doesnt mean you are calling a good game!!!!! what if one team is fouling more than the other?

Sorry...this post turned into a rant.

I am the son of an official. Maybe thats why I have a contentious relationship with officials...but I have little patience for them when they dont know the rules, because my father always taught me to read the rules and we always had rulebooks in the car.

[NorthernBison]

The only time this season where I barked at an official from the stands was a 3 man crew where each official was calling the game completely different. One guy was calling every touch or contact even though he wasn't hustling to get in position. The junior official in the crew was calling a decent game IMO. The third official was a mystery. I'm not exactly sure if his whistle even worked. He should have had to pay admission because he was a spectator. I happen to know all 3 guys. The one that ended up looking bad to most of the fans was the junior guy and he's the one I barked at telling him that they "better get on the same page". That was a game where the players had no idea how to adjust to the way the game was being officiated. It hurt both teams.

[BisonTeacher]

One thing I forgot to add. I really appreciate it when a ref/umpire comes up to me and says...sorry coach I missed that one. That happened yesterday. It completely diffuses the situation and I can let it go. I really respect an official that can do that.

[IzzyFlexion]

When I first started officiating football the first thing I learned was how little I knew the rules. When I watched games I realized why I didn't know the rules. Most of my knowledge came from announcers. Who knew they didn't know the rules. It also helped me realize I don't know basketball or baseball rules. I'll see calls that I think are wrong, but realize even a bad basketball official knows the rules better than me.

This is a good blog that points out some of those misunderstandings in basketball. I never knew there wasn't a foul for "over-the-back". Thanks again announcers.

http://www.bordaslaw.com/blog/2014/02/the-most-misunderstood-rules-in-basketball-stop-yelling-at-the-officials-youre-wrong.shtml

told ya Hando....................................dick!

[IzzyFlexion]

One thing I forgot to add. I really appreciate it when a ref/umpire comes up to me and says...sorry coach I missed that one. That happened yesterday. It completely diffuses the situation and I can let it go. I really respect an official that can do that.

You clearly misinterpreted.
He was simply responding to your pre-game question......"Hey ref. Can I borrow your Championship edition of Bison Illustrated?"

[IndyBison]

One thing I forgot to add. I really appreciate it when a ref/umpire comes up to me and says...sorry coach I missed that one. That happened yesterday. It completely diffuses the situation and I can let it go. I really respect an official that can do that.

That's a great tool the official can use because there is nothing the coach can do at that point. A similar one is "if it happened the way you said then you are correct and I was wrong. That's not the way I saw it however." It helps to diffuse the situation, tells the coach you are listening to him, and allows everyone to move on.

[Gully]

That's a great tool the official can use because there is nothing the coach can do at that point. A similar one is "if it happened the way you said then you are correct and I was wrong. That's not the way I saw it however." It helps to diffuse the situation, tells the coach you are listening to him, and allows everyone to move on.

Can weathermen use this one? :) You know I love you Indy and I love mixing FB and Bisonville conversations!

[BisonTeacher]

That's a great tool the official can use because there is nothing the coach can do at that point. A similar one is "if it happened the way you said then you are correct and I was wrong. That's not the way I saw it however." It helps to diffuse the situation, tells the coach you are listening to him, and allows everyone to move on.


In yesterdays situation...the opposing player had dribbled over and back...the ref didnt see it becuase he was talking to someone on the sideline...ie not watching the game. He came over and apologized and said he totally missed it because he was talking. most refs wont admit when they are wrong. Those that do get my respect.

[IndyBison]

Can weathermen use this one? :) You know I love you Indy and I love mixing FB and Bisonville conversations!

She can :)

[missingnumber7]

This would be good for a beginner class. I would agree that some fans have a misinturpretation of the rules. However, I highly doubt coaches above the junior high level don't know the rules. Officiating is judgemental calls.
Did the offensive player gain an advantage by moving into the defensive player or did the defensive player gain an advantage by moving into the offensive player?
Yes the defender is allowed to move, but the player can not move into the defender (slide under as offensive player is in the air) or "ride" the offensive player.
What do you consider possession of the basketball in regards to traveling? At least one hand on the ball at a rest? How about a player "bobbling" the ball but yet controling where it goes? How long does the ball have to rest on a hand or finger for it to be possessed?

HS coaches are horrible with rules. They have a select few down, usually those that are the point of emphasis for the year. But I have had 2 complain that a travel I called wasn't a travel, but was a Euro Step. Go google Euro Step and particularly see the Wikipedia definition.

As for the comment earlier that rules meetings are just social gatherings. I don't disagree, although ND has gone away from rules meetings to online clinics. But it is up to the individual official as to how much they dig into the rules book. The more you do the better official you have the pontential to be. I myself use my wednesday nights to review rules that I have had issues with the previous week and then to read through the case book.

[IndyBison]

The philosophy is a big part of why officials get a bad rap as it may lead to a foul being called on one team but not the other. I agree with the advantage/disadvantage philosophy, but it will always be the part that is most criticized.

Thanks for posting this! I would love to see one from the other major sports as well (maybe I'll do some searching). The traveling part was very interesting and that is the first time I've seen the diving for the ball clearly explained.

I was on the board of a local youth baseball game and I was "on duty" one night. There was a travel team game taking place that night as well and I was asked to help settle a dispute. I had no jurisdiction over the game but I was curious. The issue was a batted ball had hit the runner between 2nd and 3rd. The umpire originally ruled the runner out as everyone expected. Based on what I knew it sounded right. This would have ended the game for the "home" team. The umpire then changed his call and the coaches and parents went nuts (I think it was 11-year old kids). There were parents and fans yelling at me to do something but from what I had heard the umpire was right and I had no jurisdiction anyway.

I talked to several umpires that night and the following days and asked them about it and the first question every one of them asked me was "where were the infielders when the ball hit him?" I never knew that mattered. In this case the 3rd baseman was playing in and the ball had gone by him before hitting the runner. In that case, the runner is not automatically out if the ball hits him. There is still some judgement based on what the shortstop could do, but the purpose of this is to show we don't know the rules. There were two older siblings there who vehemently said they played baseball and softball at the college level and they knew the rules. I knew very likely they didn't. One of them said their dad was a high school coach and they called him and he said that wasn't a rule. There was a potential judgement issue by the umpire, but he had to call what he did based on what he saw. None of these players, coaches, or fans knew anything about this rule.

BTW...the visiting team ended up scoring to send the game into extra innings where they won. The home team was so hung up on this play they forgot to keep competing. Hopefully they learned a lesson.

[IndyBison]

HS coaches are horrible with rules. They have a select few down, usually those that are the point of emphasis for the year. But I have had 2 complain that a travel I called wasn't a travel, but was a Euro Step. Go google Euro Step and particularly see the Wikipedia definition.

As for the comment earlier that rules meetings are just social gatherings. I don't disagree, although ND has gone away from rules meetings to online clinics. But it is up to the individual official as to how much they dig into the rules book. The more you do the better official you have the pontential to be. I myself use my wednesday nights to review rules that I have had issues with the previous week and then to read through the case book.

Early in my career I worked a game at an inner city school. These coaches and kids have challenges most of us will never understand. The home team coach was riding me the entire game about little things. He wanted every little flinch by the other team to be a false start and every play had an obvious hold we were missing. I was new enough I wasn't very good at managing coaches. My referee knew I was having a tough time with this coach.

Late in the 3rd quarter his team was getting kicked. He complained to me one of their players had a mouth piece that wasn't attached to his face mask and that was a foul. There are a lot of silly uniform/equipment rules and they weren't something I focused on. I didn't think that was a rule but I wasn't 100% certain. At the next time out I asked my referee about it. He knew where it came from, looked at me, shook his head and walked away. I still don't know if the coach actually thought it was a foul or if he was just trying to work me. I met him again several years later and asked him about it. He didn't remember it but thought it sounded like something he would do.

[DORMIE]

The sport where announcers could use some work is golf. If they would just read the definitions they would learn a lot. It's not his playing partner, it's his fellow competitor. Partner would be in a 4 ball or 4 some. Flagstick, not the pin. When a ball goes over the green is is through the green, but technically it is over the green. The definition of through the green is the whole area of the course, except the teeing ground and the green of the hole being played and all hazards on the course.

[DORMIE]

One more definition. A side is "dormie" when it is as many holes up as there are holes remaining to be played.

[NorthernBison]

Golf rules are incredibly misunderstood. One of my pet peeves is people who think getting relief from a cart path means "put the ball wherever you want". It's the POINT of nearest relief no nearer the hole. If that puts a tree in your way, tough nuts, either hit it from the path, from the relief spot, or declare it unplayable there under a one stroke penalty.

[natstar1]

One of the things that always gets to me, is that in Minnesota they make coaches attend a rules meeting each year.

I've been a HC for BB the last 6 years and I've never been to a rules meeting in that time. I have had to do some online thing every year, but that's it.


This play and explanation drove me nuts.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOPTHReXP4A

After the play happened I instantly said, "Did the ball cross the half line?"
Ref: I ruled she had possession.
me: but did the ball cross the half line?
at this point the ref knew he screwed up, but was sticking with his story.
ref: coach, I ruled she had possession.

[BisonTeacher]

I've been a HC for BB the last 6 years and I've never been to a rules meeting in that time. I have had to do some online thing every year, but that's it. .

I havent coached high school for two years now...but yes...the last year or two they had online rule option you could do instead of actually going to the meeting.

[IndyBison]

The sport where announcers could use some work is golf. If they would just read the definitions they would learn a lot. It's not his playing partner, it's his fellow competitor. Partner would be in a 4 ball or 4 some. Flagstick, not the pin. When a ball goes over the green is is through the green, but technically it is over the green. The definition of through the green is the whole area of the course, except the teeing ground and the green of the hole being played and all hazards on the course.

A lot of time it is semantics but definitions are key to any rule set. There is no reference to tight end, quarterback, center, etc. in the rule book but they are common terms to football and people use them when describing rules. Words are used in other places in the rulebook and the definition can be key.

Another word that drives me nuts is "lateral". There is no such thing in the rule book. I'm not sure if it's a word coaches started using or announcers started using, but it drives me nuts. It's a backward pass. By definition the only way a player loses possession is via a kick, pass, handing or fumble. A pass is intentionally throwing the ball. It's a backward if the initial direction of the pass is backward or parallel with the runner's end line. There are other rules that reference a backward pass and you go back to this definition. I know it's commonly used but the word lateral is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

[missingnumber7]

I havent coached high school for two years now...but yes...the last year or two they had online rule option you could do instead of actually going to the meeting.

Basketball hasn't had a must be present rules clinic in ND in at least 3 years. And the officials have to attend a workshop which is usually during the 1st week of the who evers season starts first. ND does no favors to its officials because at that point you have completed all your requirements if you have no desire to work a region or a state tourney. If you want to do those you must do a day camp once every 3 years.

[Mayville Bison]

I was on the board of a local youth baseball game and I was "on duty" one night. There was a travel team game taking place that night as well and I was asked to help settle a dispute. I had no jurisdiction over the game but I was curious. The issue was a batted ball had hit the runner between 2nd and 3rd. The umpire originally ruled the runner out as everyone expected. Based on what I knew it sounded right. This would have ended the game for the "home" team. The umpire then changed his call and the coaches and parents went nuts (I think it was 11-year old kids). There were parents and fans yelling at me to do something but from what I had heard the umpire was right and I had no jurisdiction anyway.

I talked to several umpires that night and the following days and asked them about it and the first question every one of them asked me was "where were the infielders when the ball hit him?" I never knew that mattered. In this case the 3rd baseman was playing in and the ball had gone by him before hitting the runner. In that case, the runner is not automatically out if the ball hits him. There is still some judgement based on what the shortstop could do, but the purpose of this is to show we don't know the rules. There were two older siblings there who vehemently said they played baseball and softball at the college level and they knew the rules. I knew very likely they didn't. One of them said their dad was a high school coach and they called him and he said that wasn't a rule. There was a potential judgement issue by the umpire, but he had to call what he did based on what he saw. None of these players, coaches, or fans knew anything about this rule.

BTW...the visiting team ended up scoring to send the game into extra innings where they won. The home team was so hung up on this play they forgot to keep competing. Hopefully they learned a lesson.

Until you said 11 year old kids, I was nervous you were in ND for a week this past summer. This exact thing happened to us and I didn't know that rule either until we were corrected. Also found out that a pitcher can throw to an unoccupied base if the runner is trying to steal that base.

[natstar1]

Until you said 11 year old kids, I was nervous you were in ND for a week this past summer. This exact thing happened to us and I didn't know that rule either until we were corrected. Also found out that a pitcher can throw to an unoccupied base if the runner is trying to steal that base.
I don't believe this to be accurate, can someone explain. Pitcher can throw anywhere if he steps of the rubber AFAIK.

[Mayville Bison]

I don't believe this to be accurate, can someone explain. Pitcher can throw anywhere if he steps of the rubber AFAIK.

If he steps off, he can definitely go anywhere. Situation was a runner on 2nd and got a pretty good jump. In the rule book it says a pitcher can throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making a play. Umpire ruled that the play at 3rd base was imminent. If the runner was bluffing a steal and the pitcher threw it there, it would have been a balk.

Seems like a terrible rule because what's stopping a pitcher from doing that on any full count with 2 outs? Since this point, I always ask the umpire in our pre-game meeting how he would handle the situation as it could go either way.

[missingnumber7]

If he steps off, he can definitely go anywhere. Situation was a runner on 2nd and got a pretty good jump. In the rule book it says a pitcher can throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making a play. Umpire ruled that the play at 3rd base was imminent. If the runner was bluffing a steal and the pitcher threw it there, it would have been a balk.

Seems like a terrible rule because what's stopping a pitcher from doing that on any full count with 2 outs? Since this point, I always ask the umpire in our pre-game meeting how he would handle the situation as it could go either way.

Baseball is the worst for rules knowledge. There are lots of pieces that everyone knows, but there are so many little pieces that are different between levels, and from HS ball to Summer ball and between Legion/Babe Ruth.

[IndyBison]

Baseball is the worst for rules knowledge. There are lots of pieces that everyone knows, but there are so many little pieces that are different between levels, and from HS ball to Summer ball and between Legion/Babe Ruth.

I definitely agree with that. With the exception of some additional rules added by youth leagues (i.e. stripers, lining up in the gap), we only deal with HS, college, and pro and most of us only deal with HS. I believe basketball is similar, although I'm not sure what AAU follows. Baseball has several different rule sets for HS and below. Cal Ripken baseball has their own rules too correct?

[missingnumber7]

I definitely agree with that. With the exception of some additional rules added by youth leagues (i.e. stripers, lining up in the gap), we only deal with HS, college, and pro and most of us only deal with HS. I believe basketball is similar, although I'm not sure what AAU follows. Baseball has several different rule sets for HS and below. Cal Ripken baseball has their own rules too correct?Football is the easiest because there is Friday rules, Saturday rules and Sunday rules. BBall, there is HS, NCAA mens, NCAA womens, FIBA, NBA. Baseball is by far the worst, Cal Ripken, Babe Ruth, SR Babe Ruth, HS, Legion(some form of NL/AL), College, Minor League, AL, and NL. And all the variotions that come with those.