4th and 1 under 2 minutes

[stevdock]

Anyone as shocked as I was when we went for this especially when a FG wins the game, their K already made a 50 yarder, and our P had 1 inside the 5 and should have had another?

I completely understand that we get one yard and the game is over, but how many times has Bohl made that call in his 10 years here??

[NDSU_grad]

I think it was the right call. I simply look at it as the odds of getting the yard or the odds of making the fg. At that point in the game I would have placed the odds in our favor of getting the yard as better than making the fg.

[taper]

We play to win. I think teams don't go for it on 4th nearly enough.

[Bison 4 Life]

Anyone as shocked as I was when we went for this especially when a FG wins the game, their K already made a 50 yarder, and our P had 1 inside the 5 and should have had another?

I completely understand that we get one yard and the game is over, but how many times has Bohl made that call in his 10 years here??

I'm mostly shocked that the direction of the play was more off tackle than dive. Otherwise, I have no problem with the call.

[BisoninNWMN]

We play to win. I think teams don't go for it on 4th nearly enough.


This here.

Play to win.

[bisonhp330]

I'm mostly shocked that the direction of the play was more off tackle than dive. Otherwise, I have no problem with the call.

^^^^^^This.....and with Crockett or Lang..

[BisonTeacher]

I was more shocked at the play call. Thought for sure it would be a brock keeper...and it looked like that hole was open as well.

[Professor Chaos]

I was more shocked at the play call. Thought for sure it would be a brock keeper...and it looked like that hole was open as well.
Yup, I know Brock got stuffed on 3rd and short earlier in the game but #16 has always been the best short yardage option. Especially after seeing the hole in the right A gap I was very surprised Brock didn't audible to a sneak. Hinz fell forward to the 29 himself after snapping the ball, it would've been easy for Brock to do the same.

[HerdBot]

Tough call but it was the right one. Risking a punt return is dangerous and if it goes into the end zone we net like 10 yards. Field goal was long. Odds of making 1 yard is probably better than a long field goal

[Ndsu84]

I agree with everyone above who says go for it, especially after reading northern Iowa talk of what arrogant bastards we are to go for it in that situation!!!!

[marenlee]

Sometimes you have to play to WIN the game. And the way our defense was playing the 4th quarter, I like our chances either way.

[BisonTeacher]

Sometimes you have to play to WIN the game. And the way our defense was playing the 4th quarter, I like our chances either way.

LOL...YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42iiCcFbxE

[Mayville Bison]

I still think you punt there. It was a long 1 almost 2 - if it's less than 1 QB sneak sure. If you don't think a QB sneak will get it there put your best team on the field with them having the ball at the 20 at the least. 15 yard net in that situation is huge!

Don't forget about the time factor, sky a punt and you run off an additional 7-10 seconds depending on if it lands in play. There will be no return at all. Only thing I'll concede to is if you say bad snap, but I'll take Murphy over having to get 2 yards.

Moot point if JC stays in bounds on 1st down

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[roadwarrior]

Coach Bohl also mentioned on his show this morning, that UNI has blocked some punts this season. He definitely didn't want that to happen.

[Bisonwinagn]

Anyone as shocked as I was when we went for this especially when a FG wins the game, their K already made a 50 yarder, and our P had 1 inside the 5 and should have had another?

I completely understand that we get one yard and the game is over, but how many times has Bohl made that call in his 10 years here??

I was really surprised considering Bohl usually punts, but it was clearly the right decision to go for it and should be done every single time PERIOD!

[56BISON73]

The situation was correct for all three calls. I didnt like the punt because it would have taken an extremely accurate punt to pull that option off. Pluss they had put some pressure on our punter a few times in the game and our long snapper had snapped the ball pretty high on more than one occasion.

Going for it was not an issue with me as opposed to the play call itself.. We had had some pretty good results running the ball so thats where my thoughts were.

Plus you play to win the game. Do dont play not to lose.

[BisonTeacher]

I didnt like the punt because it would have taken an extremely accurate punt to pull that option off. .

YOu are forgetting the risk of the ref blowing it and calling a touchback when it goes out in the corner.

[56BISON73]

YOu are forgetting the risk of the ref blowing it and calling a touchback when it goes out in the corner.

There was that also!:biggrin:

[TateMosersneighbor]

Where we were on the field, scenario, our defense...absolutely the right call to go for it.

[DjKyRo]

The FG is hardly a sure thing at that distance, and even a punt has the risk of it getting blocked. I think with how we were running the ball at that point we had to try for it, and we went to Billy's side. UNI just stuffed it. I'm more surprised Brock didn't run it in that situation, but both John and Sam had had good gains to that point. I think it was the right call, it just didn't work.

[stevdock]

Sorry guys I was talking their FG kicker. No way we try a FG there. Too much risk for not enough reward. Didn't know about their success blocking punts this year and Murphy was a little shaky yesterday for some reason.

I was just shocked based on how much coach plays the field position game that he didn't try and make UNI go 65 yards to have a shot at a 50 yarder instead of only 30/40 yards.

[MHDBisonfan]

Maybe Coach Bohl remembered EWU in 2010. Maybe he made the decision that day that if that situation ever came up again he'd always go for it. It was a nearly identical spot on the field with just slightly less time left than EWU game.

[BisonNation11]

I totally believe it was the right call to go for it, but the wrong play was called. Teams are figuring out that if we need short yardage, we go left. I know that's the strength of the line (and I haven't watched the replay) but I was really hoping they would have gone left. No idea if it was open or not, but that's what I would have called, whether it be a Jensen keep or any type of run. Just my .02.

[MAKBison]

Yeah, they were playing stuff the run. I think the off balance sweep would have been good. Everyone is going to be a bit hesitant to look outside due to the success we have with BJ in these type is situations. no way their LBs get to the LOS before we get two.

[SUBISON247]

Maybe Coach Bohl remembered EWU in 2010. Maybe he made the decision that day that if that situation ever came up again he'd always go for it. It was a nearly identical spot on the field with just slightly less time left than EWU game.

Exactly what I thought about in the situation, still think that we would have won that game if we went for it.

[ZHerd]

I was fine with the attempt. I heard someone mention that with the PAT blocks given up this season Bohl was worried about a blocked kick and rightfully so imo. We get it we win, we don't then we depend on one of the best defenses in all of D1 football. They have carried the team through 2 championship runs and got it done again today.

[natstar1]

I still think you punt there. It was a long 1 almost 2 - if it's less than 1 QB sneak sure. If you don't think a QB sneak will get it there put your best team on the field with them having the ball at the 20 at the least. 15 yard net in that situation is huge!

Don't forget about the time factor, sky a punt and you run off an additional 7-10 seconds depending on if it lands in play. There will be no return at all. Only thing I'll concede to is if you say bad snap, but I'll take Murphy over having to get 2 yards.

We were on the 31 so a touchback gains us 6 yards.

Feel free to argue my estimations.
If we go for it we'll get a first down 70% of the time. The 30% of the time we don't make it we still hold them 50% of the time.
70%+(30%x50%)=85% winning percentage

If we punt we'll on average give them the ball on 15 yard line. Based on my 50% hold rate in my go for it scenario you'll probably hold them 30% of the time from the 15. Which makes you're winning percentage 70%.

No matter how you mess with the numbers it's an obvious go for it situation IMO.

[Bison Champions]

You guys suck ass. 99 yards passing? Blown call by the refs?

[natstar1]

Tough call but it was the right one. Risking a punt return is dangerous and if it goes into the end zone we net like 10 yards. Field goal was long. Odds of making 1 yard is probably better than a long field goal
No it's not. Punts inside your opponents territory are rarely returned, let alone your opponents 31 yard line.

[Bison Champions]

Sorry guys I was talking their FG kicker. No way we try a FG there. Too much risk for not enough reward. Didn't know about their success blocking punts this year and Murphy was a little shaky yesterday for some reason.

I was just shocked based on how much coach plays the field position game that he didn't try and make UNI go 65 yards to have a shot at a 50 yarder instead of only 30/40 yards.

Our kicker would have made a 55 yarder. You guys suck. I sincerely hope we play again in the playoffs. With playoff caliber refs we will kill you.

[natstar1]

You guys suck ass. 99 yards passing? Blown call by the refs?

you dominated the passing game with your 128 passing yards, congrats.


I sincerely hope we play again in the playoffs. With playoff caliber refs we will kill you.
I wouldn't be so sure. Playoff caliber refs might call your right tackle for holding.

[CalBison97]

You guys suck ass. 99 yards passing? Blown call by the refs?

And still managed to win.

[CalBison97]

Our kicker would have made a 55 yarder. You guys suck. I sincerely hope we play again in the playoffs. With playoff caliber refs we will kill you.

We'll be there. Hopefully you guys can make it far enough. That was your chance as we won't play that bad again this year.

[ndsubison1]

Anyone as shocked as I was when we went for this especially when a FG wins the game, their K already made a 50 yarder, and our P had 1 inside the 5 and should have had another?

I completely understand that we get one yard and the game is over, but how many times has Bohl made that call in his 10 years here??

go for it everytime there

[ndsubison1]

I was really surprised considering Bohl usually punts, but it was clearly the right decision to go for it and should be done every single time PERIOD!

coaches have been more aggressive on 4th down the last couple seasons

[natstar1]

coaches have been more aggressive on 4th down the last couple seasons
I'd like to see what we would do if we kick off from the opponents 35 again.

[MankatoBison]

YOu are forgetting the risk of the ref blowing it and calling a touchback when it goes out in the corner.

SERIOUSLY... Couldnt believe that haha

[56BISON73]

You guys suck ass. 99 yards passing? Blown call by the refs?

Thats all we needed to beat you.

[KilldeerBison]

Our kicker would have made a 55 yarder. You guys suck. I sincerely hope we play again in the playoffs. With playoff caliber refs we will kill you.

UNI better worry more about winning their next game, your defense was slaughtered. Good luck making the playoffs, would love to play UNI again.

[devin45k]

Our kicker would have made a 55 yarder. You guys suck. I sincerely hope we play again in the playoffs. With playoff caliber refs we will kill you.

Butt hurt much?

[steelbison]

Anyone as shocked as I was when we went for this especially when a FG wins the game, their K already made a 50 yarder, and our P had 1 inside the 5 and should have had another?

I completely understand that we get one yard and the game is over, but how many times has Bohl made that call in his 10 years here??


Not sure I was shocked. I know this, it was a tough call either way. I wouldn't have wanted to make that call. I told my friends that is why Bohl gets the big bucks!!

I personally would have liked an option read play with the QB.....That would be my only complaint. I was ok with the punt or going for it.

[344Johnson]

coaches have been more aggressive on 4th down the last couple seasons

Coaches have been playing more madden.

[Mayville Bison]

We were on the 31 so a touchback gains us 6 yards.

Feel free to argue my estimations.
If we go for it we'll get a first down 70% of the time. The 30% of the time we don't make it we still hold them 50% of the time.
70%+(30%x50%)=85% winning percentage

If we punt we'll on average give them the ball on 15 yard line. Based on my 50% hold rate in my go for it scenario you'll probably hold them 30% of the time from the 15. Which makes you're winning percentage 70%.

No matter how you mess with the numbers it's an obvious go for it situation IMO.

Isn't the touchback at the 25 only on kickoffs? I was going by memory and thought we got stuffed at the 35 to get the 15 yard net. With the way LeCompte has been punting (not counting the ref screw-up), I would have put money on the ball being inside the 10, but the biggest part is the additional time it takes to punt rather than an inside handoff.

To me it all comes down to what you are most comfortable with as a play caller. IMO, put our best team out there and make them go from the 20 (worst case scenario) to our 40 (if he can make a 57 yarder). I think the chances of them going 40+ yards and making the field goal are right around the 15-20% range based off seeing their offense the rest of the game. However, I wouldn't fault someone for going for it in that situation as we had been running pretty successfully late in the 4th. The only thing I would have criticized is if we kick the field goal. Too much can happen on either a blocked FG or a kickoff return to justify making them have to score a TD instead of a FG.

I love we can argue about these things after a win instead of a loss. The "if only" factor really sucks (as evidence by the butt hurt from Bison Champions).

[EC8CH]

Field Goal would have been without a doubt a bad idea.

Only options were to go for it or punt. It was a long one, we had a banged up line, and we were playing against an extremely tough UNI defense, so looking back maybe it would have been smarter to punt. Then again... the run was gashing UNI pretty good the previous two drives, and punting on 4th and 1 instead of ramming home a win just isn't the Bison way.

Too bad they didn't put it away there because the best part of Bison football is watching games be decided on huge 4th and short plays.

[BisonAccountant44]

I don't understand the debate. 4th and 1 from the 31 should be an automatic go for it 100% of the time.

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[TransAmBison]

60% of the time it works every time.

[BisonTeacher]

60% of the time it works every time.

Thats not what your wife said!!!! :biggrin:

[IndyBison]

Isn't the touchback at the 25 only on kickoffs?

Yes. The succeeding spot is the 20 for all touchbacks except following a free kick. Then it is 25. That combined with moving the kickoff to the 35 and requiring all kicking team players to start within 5 yards of the free kick line were to reduce (but not eliminate) the number of kick returns. I don't know what the impact was last year or so far this year. It would be interesting to compare the rate of touchbacks and the ratio of injuries on kick return plays.

[TransAmBison]

Thats not what your wife said!!!! :biggrin:


Yeah, but she likes to brag.

[bisonaudit]

Isn't the touchback at the 25 only on kickoffs? I was going by memory and thought we got stuffed at the 35 to get the 15 yard net. With the way LeCompte has been punting (not counting the ref screw-up), I would have put money on the ball being inside the 10, but the biggest part is the additional time it takes to punt rather than an inside handoff.

To me it all comes down to what you are most comfortable with as a play caller. IMO, put our best team out there and make them go from the 20 (worst case scenario) to our 40 (if he can make a 57 yarder). I think the chances of them going 40+ yards and making the field goal are right around the 15-20% range based off seeing their offense the rest of the game. However, I wouldn't fault someone for going for it in that situation as we had been running pretty successfully late in the 4th. The only thing I would have criticized is if we kick the field goal. Too much can happen on either a blocked FG or a kickoff return to justify making them have to score a TD instead of a FG.

I love we can argue about these things after a win instead of a loss. The "if only" factor really sucks (as evidence by the butt hurt from Bison Champions).

I think Bohl made the correct choice, but it's clearly a closer call between going for it and punting than it is between either of those options and trying a field goal.

[Mayville Bison]

Yes. The succeeding spot is the 20 for all touchbacks except following a free kick. Then it is 25. That combined with moving the kickoff to the 35 and requiring all kicking team players to start within 5 yards of the free kick line were to reduce (but not eliminate) the number of kick returns. I don't know what the impact was last year or so far this year. It would be interesting to compare the rate of touchbacks and the ratio of injuries on kick return plays.

Has anyone else been unimpressed with the number of touchbacks on kickoffs? Our kickoff coverage has been pretty good this year, but I'd still give them the ball at the 25 every time than risk giving up a big return or TD even if the average starting position for the year is less than the 25 yard line.


I think Bohl made the correct choice, but it's clearly a closer call between going for it and punting than it is between either of those options and trying a field goal.

Can't fault the choice even if we didn't make it. Just very glad we have smart enough coaches that this wasn't even an option - I can say that confidently because they didn't try for a 40-something yard field goal at SDSU even though it would have given us a 2-score lead. Farley would've kicked a FG there

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I don't understand the debate. 4th and 1 from the 31 should be an automatic go for it 100% of the time.

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Totally agree and Bohl made the right call. I know I would have been pissed if you guys didnt go for it. (Not that it matters)

[1998braves64]

Has anyone else been unimpressed with the number of touchbacks on kickoffs? Our kickoff coverage has been pretty good this year, but I'd still give them the ball at the 25 every time than risk giving up a big return or TD even if the average starting position for the year is less than the 25 yard line.

I think this is somewhat by design, because at KSU he kicked it halfway into the endzone on the last kick playing keep away from their KR. I think they feel good about their kickoff coverage that they can get the guy tackled before the 25... 5-10 yards makes a big difference in field position in the coaches mind would be my guess.

Thereby they're playing the loophole in the NCAA trying to cut down on returns, which is just don't kick it as far as you can and allow the KR to return it.

[BisonNation11]

I think this is somewhat by design, because at KSU he kicked it halfway into the endzone on the last kick playing keep away from their KR. I think they feel good about their kickoff coverage that they can get the guy tackled before the 25... 5-10 yards makes a big difference in field position in the coaches mind would be my guess.

Thereby they're playing the loophole in the NCAA trying to cut down on returns, which is just don't kick it as far as you can and allow the KR to return it.

I personally love the approach to our kickoffs. There's no chance to stick someone deep or force a turnover if you don't give them the chance to return it. And almost every kick is placed in a corner so it's hard for other teams returners to find lanes and get a full head of steam going. Our coverage is great and rarely gets beat. Plus, it gives the younger guys some experience on getting off blocks and making solid tackles. Can't learn that knowing it's going to be a touchback.

[THEsocalledfan]

Anyone as shocked as I was when we went for this especially when a FG wins the game, their K already made a 50 yarder, and our P had 1 inside the 5 and should have had another?

I completely understand that we get one yard and the game is over, but how many times has Bohl made that call in his 10 years here??

No, it was the right call with a very tough FG and only 1 yard to go and a stellar defense. My only slight criticism is the play call. Myself, and probably everyone else though Brock would run that ball; would have been nice if that could have been utilized somehow. I know it is a bit risky, but a QB boot pass may have been a good call. That way, after fake handoff to the left, brock and see if the unblocked player went for the fake inside and just run it if he did for an easy 1 yard. If the guy stay disciplined and plays it well, I would have thought there would likely be a TE 100% wide open in the flat since they likely sold out run.

[natstar1]

Has anyone else been unimpressed with the number of touchbacks on kickoffs? Our kickoff coverage has been pretty good this year, but I'd still give them the ball at the 25 every time than risk giving up a big return or TD even if the average starting position for the year is less than the 25 yard line.
[/COLOR]
He can't kick it far enough to consistently get touchbacks so they scheme to kick it to the sidelines. They've covered kicks very well from the games I've watched.

[Bison 4 Life]

I think this is somewhat by design, because at KSU he kicked it halfway into the endzone on the last kick playing keep away from their KR. I think they feel good about their kickoff coverage that they can get the guy tackled before the 25... 5-10 yards makes a big difference in field position in the coaches mind would be my guess.

Thereby they're playing the loophole in the NCAA trying to cut down on returns, which is just don't kick it as far as you can and allow the KR to return it.

This.

When your defense is as rock solid as NDSU's, you don't need to back them up to the 20. Better to keep it away from a flashy returner who can burn you without to the D on the field for points.

[bisonaudit]

Thereby they're playing the loophole in the NCAA trying to cut down on returns, which is just don't kick it as far as you can and allow the KR to return it.

It's possible that LeCompte is actually kicking the ball roughly the same distance, or trying to, and just changing the angle depending on how interested we are in a touchback or covering. If he kicks straight away, obviously it's 65 yards to the goal line. But if he tees it on the far hash and kicks to the near pylon it's a full 73 yards to the goal line. From the center of the field it's a little over 70 yards to the pylon. Near hash to near pylon is 68 yards. Triangles are fun.

I don't think you bite off all of that because the penalty for kicking it out of bounds is pretty steep, but from watching and listening to the games it sounds like we've done some directional kicking and we do have 3 such penalties. Directional kicking probably helps the cover team as well.

[bisonaudit]

He can't kick it far enough to consistently get touchbacks so they scheme to kick it to the sidelines. They've covered kicks very well from the games I've watched.

I don't think this is true. Excluding the KSU game the average kick has been to the 3 yard line and we're kicking at least somewhat directionally which makes the kick longer than it looks on paper.

I'd speculate that we're indifferent to touchbacks and the strategy is to kick it directionally to the goal line with as much hang time as possible unless (see KSU) there's a specific return threat, then we pooched until they covered that and plan B was to kick it in the endzone and make them decide what they wanted to do from there.

[Hammerhead]

UNI did a good job of sending kickoffs deep into the corner just in front of our own goal line.

[aces1180]

UNI did a good job of sending kickoffs deep into the corner just in front of our own goal line.

I was very impressed with their kicker overall...

[A1pigskin]

I was more shocked at the play call. Thought for sure it would be a brock keeper...and it looked like that hole was open as well.

I did as well.