SEC starting the "public" push to separate BCS?

[THEsocalledfan]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/07/16/mike-slive-slyly-takes-his-shots-at-ncaa-in-sec-media-days/2523201/

Not sure I'd seen public statements like this before. NDSU needs to move up quickly to whatever the new second tier is if this happens.

[tony]

Why? Do you think a second tier with only four or five conferences is going to block anybody from joining them in their tiny party if the BCS split happens?

Seems more likely that the FCS would absorb the second tier.

[THEsocalledfan]

Why? Do you think a second tier with only four or five conferences is going to block anybody from joining them in their tiny party if the BCS split happens?

Seems more likely that the FCS would absorb the second tier.

NDSU has proven that is legitimately at the second tier of D1 football. They have had good success against MAC team, MW teams, and even success vs. B10 and 12 even if bottom dwellers. FCS is losing their best teams right in front of our eyes. NDSU belongs at the level of those MAC, MW, Sunbelt, and Conf USA schools. Not sure why you think it will be small, as only BCS conferences will get in the "club." I wonder if FCS would even continue, honestly, which would make it easy for NDSU. Hopefully, a playoff will also develop with the changes.

I can't stand the thought of being at "third tier" football again like d2.

[1998braves64]

NDSU has proven that is legitimately at the second tier of D1 football. They have had good success against MAC team, MW teams, and even success vs. B10 and 12 even if bottom dwellers. FCS is losing their best teams right in front of our eyes. NDSU belongs at the level of those MAC, MW, Sunbelt, and Conf USA schools. Not sure why you think it will be small, as only BCS conferences will get in the "club." I wonder if FCS would even continue, honestly, which would make it easy for NDSU. Hopefully, a playoff will also develop with the changes.

I can't stand the thought of being at "third tier" football again like d2.
I think his thought is that the BCS exclusive club will be minimum 4 - 16 team conferences which is 64 of what 130 or so teams in FBS? So roughly 1/2 will be left out at minimum most likely less than half. So essentially FCS would pick up the scraps of FBS and most of those schools are the ones that want a playoff system anyway so would fit the FCS mold well. This scenario would still leave NDSU in 2nd tier for football.
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[THEsocalledfan]

I think his thought is that the BCS exclusive club will be minimum 4 - 16 team conferences which is 64 of what 130 or so teams in FBS? So roughly 1/2 will be left out at minimum most likely less than half. So essentially FCS would pick up the scraps of FBS and most of those schools are the ones that want a playoff system anyway so would fit the FCS mold well. This scenario would still leave NDSU in 2nd tier for football.
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But, that assumes FCS goes away or other FBS teams become FCS. If there is any chance of "3 tier" D1, NDSU needs to stay away from tier 3......am I alone feeling this way?

[bisonaudit]

But, that assumes FCS goes away or other FBS teams become FCS. If there is any chance of "3 tier" D1, NDSU needs to stay away from tier 3......am I alone feeling this way?

I think just about everyone feels that way.

[tony]

But, that assumes FCS goes away or other FBS teams become FCS. If there is any chance of "3 tier" D1, NDSU needs to stay away from tier 3......am I alone feeling this way?

What would the "second tier" look like if it didn't merge with the FCS? Bowl games? Would they even bother crowning a national champion? I just can't imagine how they'd brand that.

Right now, NDSU can't join an FBS conference without an invitation so it's out of NDSU's control right now despite what people think. There is absolutely nothing NDSU can do to make itself more attractive to an FBS conference that we aren't already doing.

After a BCS split, who knows what college athletics would look like. Heck, I'd argue that the BCS will cease to be more than professional college-affiliated athletics. All the SEC sees is dollars without consequences.

I'd almost rather see a total NCAA reboot without the BCS shitshow, even though that could mean hundreds of millions of lost dollars. The BCS should exist in their own professional bubble in all sports and everybody else can go back to what college athletics is supposed to be about. Honestly, if the SEC is allowed to run wild, I don't see the Big10 sticking around - they might invoke the Ivy League Option.

[Gully]

What would the "second tier" look like if it didn't merge with the FCS? Bowl games? Would they even bother crowning a national champion? I can't imagine how they'd brand that.

Right now, NDSU can't join an FBS conference without an invitation so it's out of NDSU's control right now despite what people think. There is absolutely nothing NDSU can do to make itself more attractive to an FBS conference that we aren't already doing.

I think you have this right. If the "break away" happens, I think FCS and what's left of the FBS would collapse into one. I think we'd do very well at that level. At some point we're going to need a new stadium though, even at that "2nd" level.

I agree with others, no way we can settle for a "3rd level". I don't think that 3rd level will be FCS though, it will be DII.

[SamsRams]

FCS will be the second level. this is why I laugh at Georgia Southern and App St moving up.......they will be moving back down within the next 5 years. If the Sun Belts and MAC's of the world are going to be cut out of the top tier then why would they fund at the top tier. Its really simple math if you look at it with common sense. Moving up to spend an extra 20 million, just so they can move back down is very dumb. Luckily the brass at NDSU see the big picture and were not in delusional mode thinking the WAC was a good home.

[perthbison]

But, that assumes FCS goes away or other FBS teams become FCS. If there is any chance of "3 tier" D1, NDSU needs to stay away from tier 3......am I alone feeling this way?I think you are spot on. I doubt that the "have not" half of the fbs would be absorbed by the fcs as they consider themselves a cut nabove the fcs and would consider it a humiliating move down.

[bisonaudit]

I think you are spot on. I doubt that the "have not" half of the fbs would be absorbed by the fcs as they consider themselves a cut nabove the fcs and would consider it a humiliating move down.

They'll rename it, ditch the bowls, retain a playoff, and come down somewhere in the middle on the cost structure so that the Presidents, ADs, etc. can keep collecting a big fraction of their massive FBS checks.

[SamsRams]

I think you are spot on. I doubt that the "have not" half of the fbs would be absorbed by the fcs as they consider themselves a cut nabove the fcs and would consider it a humiliating move down.

Then call it them absorbing fully funded FCS schools. Do you believe the non BCS schools will continue to fund 85 scholarships a year if the Big 5 create their own league?

[Hammersmith]

I think you are spot on. I doubt that the "have not" half of the fbs would be absorbed by the fcs as they consider themselves a cut nabove the fcs and would consider it a humiliating move down.
I can see that happening for a short time(2-3 years), but how stable could it possibly be in anything except the very short term? We're only talking about 60 schools, give or take 10 more. The big 4/5 conference schools could afford to be in such a small subdivision because of all the TV money flowing in, but could the low-budget FBS schools do it? I doubt it. I expect they would try to maintain a status quo for a couple years until the difficulty of scheduling OOC games and the resulting higher costs would bring them to the table with the top FCS conferences. Success or failure of the non-BCS schools will come from how the big 4/5 conferences handle their OOC scheduling. If they mandate no games outside their own group, then the lower FBS schools will have to join with the top FCS rather quickly. If the big guys allows multiple games per year against the low FBS, then the low FBS will be able to limp along for quite awhile.

[perthbison]

Then call it them absorbing fully funded FCS schools. Do you believe the non BCS schools will continue to fund 85 scholarships a year if the Big 5 create their own league?You're right on the first part as to how it would have to go. On the second point, they are currently funding those scholarships and absorbing a loss on a bowl game so they'll find a way to keep funding that number of scholarships.

[THEsocalledfan]

After reading all the thoughts, the good news is it sure seem like NDSU will be in a decent position if the BCS break off. They will either become highly desirable from the "second tier" conferences if something like the current structure remains and survives, or whole MVFC will get moved into the same level as those schools.

Is that a general summary of thoughts?

I am pretty skeptical of FBS schools "moving down" to FCS. I don't see that happening. Perception would be horrible for the schools; much more likely whole thing is blown up and called something new.

[perthbison]

After reading all the thoughts, the good news is it sure seem like NDSU will be in a decent position if the BCS break off. They will either become highly desirable from the "second tier" conferences if something like the current structure remains and survives, or whole MVFC will get moved into the same level as those schools.

Is that a general summary of thoughts?

I am pretty skeptical of FBS schools "moving down" to FCS. I don't see that happening. Perception would be horrible for the schools; much more likely whole thing is blown up and called something new.that's a pretty good summary of my thoughts. With this many programs and egos and money involved it is really tough to predict the future on this.

[HerdBot]

If all the good conferences form their own league, would we have a legitimate chance at competing for a National Championship if there was a playoff? If yes we need to move up. Remove the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, etc....increase our scholarships... are we good enough?

[runtheoption]

If all the good conferences form their own league, would we have a legitimate chance at competing for a National Championship if there was a playoff? If yes we need to move up. Remove the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, etc....increase our scholarships... are we good enough?
Hey Gabe, please ask your questions 1 more time. I don't think it is clear what you are asking when you say "remove the SEC, Big 10, Big12". Also, "good conferences" in your 1st sentence...are you talking "good conferences" in FCS combining with lower lever FBS, or the current BCS conferences? And which playoff...the potential BCS teams playoff, or the potential upper FCS/lower FBS playoff?

[HerdBot]

Hey Gabe, please ask your questions 1 more time. I don't think it is clear what you are asking when you say "remove the SEC, Big 10, Big12". Also, "good conferences" in your 1st sentence...are you talking "good conferences" in FCS combining with lower lever FBS, or the current BCS conferences? And which playoff...the potential BCS teams playoff, or the potential upper FCS/lower FBS playoff?

Sorry I was kind of vague. All the Big Dog BCS starting their own league and the remaining lower FBS/ upper FCS forming a new league with a playoff. Lower FBS / upper FCS playoff.

[GCWaters]

More along these lines, this time from the Big 12 commissioner:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130722/big-12-bob-bowlsby-ncaa/?sct=hp_t13_a2&eref=sihp

[THEsocalledfan]

More along these lines, this time from the Big 12 commissioner:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130722/big-12-bob-bowlsby-ncaa/?sct=hp_t13_a2&eref=sihp

Great article. Hard to argue with those guys. I really think this is a great opportunity for NDSU if the big money guys break away; it will elevate that second tier of D1 football.

[tony]

BCS Manifesto:

1. We set our own recruiting rules (i.e. none)
2. We set our own initial eligibility standards (failing this we set up our own prep schools.)
3. We set our own scholarship limits (i.e. we get as many as we want)
4. We will pay players as much as we want
5. Our players only have to be enrolled, not necessarily full-time
6. We will take transfers from lower division (non-BCS schools) and they will be able to play immediately.
7. APR - never heard of it.
8. We will run the NCAA.
9. We are all about money... nothing more, nothing less.
10. We will do our own enforcement of any rules.

That's why I'm all in favor of them splitting from the NCAA completely because they are setting themselves up to be a cartel and they will sit outside the NCAA like a big, fat cash piñata waiting to be hit by 10 million sticks. Besides, if there is corruption in the NCAA, they are the very root of it.

[THEsocalledfan]

BCS Manifesto:

1. We set our own recruiting rules (i.e. none)
2. We set our own initial eligibility standards (failing this we set up our own prep schools.)
3. We set our own scholarship limits (i.e. we get as many as we want)
4. We will pay players as much as we want
5. Our players only have to be enrolled, not necessarily full-time
6. We will take transfers from lower division (non-BCS schools) and they will be able to play immediately.
7. APR - never heard of it.
8. We will run the NCAA.
9. We are all about money... nothing more, nothing less.
10. We will do our own enforcement of any rules.

That's why I'm all in favor of them splitting from the NCAA completely because they are setting themselves up to be a cartel and they will sit outside the NCAA like a big, fat cash piñata waiting to be hit by 10 million sticks. Besides, if there is corruption in the NCAA, they are the very root of it.

If they do, it decimates basketball and that is the rub and why the low money schools will have to cave and allow them to do what they want in football. Honestly, would the casual SDSU fan have cared as much about Walters and that team in the Summit championship if all that was at steak was a bid to the second rate BBall tourney that is not even nationally broadcast until the title game?

So, Tony, while I understand your philosophy on this, I don't see how the low budget schools can possible stand up to them.

[bisonaudit]

Amateurism is a sham.

[BadlandsBison]

Amateurism is a sham.

I wonder if the NFL would change the rules for draft eligibility. Not that they would care very much.

[bisonaudit]

I wonder if the NFL would change the rules for draft eligibility. Not that they would care very much.

I think their only concern is that they retain their development league.

[tony]

If they do, it decimates basketball and that is the rub and why the low money schools will have to cave and allow them to do what they want in football. Honestly, would the casual SDSU fan have cared as much about Walters and that team in the Summit championship if all that was at steak was a bid to the second rate BBall tourney that is not even nationally broadcast until the title game?

So, Tony, while I understand your philosophy on this, I don't see how the low budget schools can possible stand up to them.

I'd rather lose the big schools from the NCAA tourney and reform college athletics than keep the big schools.

[THEsocalledfan]

I'd rather lose the big schools from the NCAA tourney and reform college athletics than keep the big schools.

I certainly respect this point of view, but I'd rather keep the Cinderella idea alive in bball. Thus, I would let them do as they want in football.

[tony]

I certainly respect this point of view, but I'd rather keep the Cinderella idea alive in bball. Thus, I would let them do as they want in football.

Let's be clear: My thinking is that given enough rope, the Big Boys will hang themselves and be back with everybody else within a decade.

[THEsocalledfan]

Let's be clear: My thinking is that given enough rope, the Big Boys will hang themselves and be back with everybody else within a decade.

How will the rope hang them? Politicians? They made so many public blunders they give up?

Personally, I think the political pressure will get ratcheted up if they try to break from the NCAA, outright. Me don't think the politicians will like that from the "have not" schools, so I don't see an outright break, but I do think they will get more of what they want in football.

[NorthernBison]

I think there needs to be a "catalyst" to drive a change. The most effective would be if a "undeserving" team were to be selected for the playoff over a big name power conference program. Then, when that team gets DESTROYED, there would be enough cover for the Big 4-5 conferences to simplygo their own way with regard to a football post-season.

No need to leave the NCAA. No need to make any announcements about a NEW National Championship. Everybody knows who the top dogs are.

I see Notre Dame being forced to make a decision sooner rather than later. It might have been different if they had at least given Alabama a game in January. The lustre is off the Notre Dame Legacy. They will need to become a conference player now because they don't have the automatic program respect that they once had. January proved that they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt.

[MNLonghorn10]

I think there needs to be a "catalyst" to drive a change. The most effective would be if a "undeserving" team were to be selected for the playoff over a big name power conference program. Then, when that team gets DESTROYED, there would be enough cover for the Big 4-5 conferences to simplygo their own way with regard to a football post-season.

No need to leave the NCAA. No need to make any announcements about a NEW National Championship. Everybody knows who the top dogs are.

I see Notre Dame being forced to make a decision sooner rather than later. It might have been different if they had at least given Alabama a game in January. The lustre is off the Notre Dame Legacy. They will need to become a conference player now because they don't have the automatic program respect that they once had. January proved that they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt.
They had an undefeated season until playing Alabama...id say that merits some respect.

[bisonaudit]

They had an undefeated season until playing Alabama...id say that merits some respect.

I think I agree with you both. Last season isn't the cause for the bloom coming of Notre Dame's rose, but it isn't the solution either. They've got a scheduling compact with the ACC now so if push came to shove I think they'd signup with them if/when the largest conferences organize their own division within the NCAA or break away.

[NorthernBison]

They had an undefeated season until playing Alabama...id say that merits some respect.

All that respect went out the door in the first quarter. I don't think there is a person who can honestly say they watched the game and felt that ND was the 2nd best team in the Country. They could go 12-0 this season and the Alabama game will still be used as a reason why 12-0 means nothing. Not saying that is fair. It is the way it works though.

[Hammerhead]

Was SHSU the 2nd best team in the FCS last season? The playoff seeding format isn't perfect, but at least SHSU had to win 3 playoff games to get to the championship. I'm not sure Notre Dame would have won their semifinal game if the new FBS "playoffs" were in place.


All that respect went out the door in the first quarter. I don't think there is a person who can honestly say they watched the game and felt that ND was the 2nd best team in the Country. They could go 12-0 this season and the Alabama game will still be used as a reason why 12-0 means nothing. Not saying that is fair. It is the way it works though.

[IndyBison]

Follow-up articles in the Indy Star with the NCAA president backing the comments made by the conference presidents.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130725/SPORTS/307250079/Exclusive-NCAA-s-Emmert-vows-fundamental-change-how-top-division-makes-rules-policy

[THEsocalledfan]

Follow-up articles in the Indy Star with the NCAA president backing the comments made by the conference presidents.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130725/SPORTS/307250079/Exclusive-NCAA-s-Emmert-vows-fundamental-change-how-top-division-makes-rules-policy

Delany said he can see a situation where schools would compete in the same NCAA championship, such as the Division I men’s basketball tournament, “but provide a different package of benefits (for athletes) based on high resource vs. middle resource.”

WTF? FBS light? That seems pretty stupid. You can't make this stuff up. Why in the heck would anyone want to play in a division where the chips are fundamentally stacked against you? I've never understood no-scholie football in FCS and this seems like another stupid idea like that. The crazy thing is, if they created "FBS light" with the continued stupid bowl system, I would support NDSU staying in the supposed "3rd rung" of D1. What a friggin joke. This is the best these morons can come up with?

[IndyBison]

Delany said he can see a situation where schools would compete in the same NCAA championship, such as the Division I men’s basketball tournament, “but provide a different package of benefits (for athletes) based on high resource vs. middle resource.”

WTF? FBS light? That seems pretty stupid. You can't make this stuff up. Why in the heck would anyone want to play in a division where the chips are fundamentally stacked against you? I've never understood no-scholie football in FCS and this seems like another stupid idea like that. The crazy thing is, if they created "FBS light" with the continued stupid bowl system, I would support NDSU staying in the supposed "3rd rung" of D1. What a friggin joke. This is the best these morons can come up with?
The issue they are trying to address is providing additional aid to their student-athletes. The small and mid-D1 school voted against it for obvious reasons but the major schools want to do it. So here are the options:

Option 1 - Keep as is which may ultimately result in the 5 major conferences doing their own thing and cutting everyone else off entirely
Option 2 - Split D1 into the 5 major conferences and everyone else so the 5 majors have to share much less of the $$ from TV contracts, etc.
Option 3 - Split D1 into the 5 major conferences with some operational autonomy from everyone else but still have a single championship where it makes sense

Option 3 allows the small and mid-schools to keep their slice of the $$ pie and they may lose some of the fringe athletes that will pick a scholarship offer from UofM for the extra money over an offer from NDSU. Since the small and mid-schools have strength in numbers, put yourself in their shoes and determine which option you would prefer? What other option would you propose that would prevent option 1 from happening?

The FCS non-scholarship happened because there were several D1 schools who played D3 football. The NCAA membership decided they wanted everyone to be in the same division for all sports so that was a logical compromise. Outside of their conference they mostly play D3/NAIA teams so this is a good compromise for them to support the overall desires of the organization.

[Hammerhead]

In other words, option 2 bounces lower level FBS conferences to the FCS which wouldn't be a bad thing IMHO. The problem is how do force schools to move "down" to the FCS?

[THEsocalledfan]

Option 3 allows the small and mid-schools to keep their slice of the $$ pie and they may lose some of the fringe athletes that will pick a scholarship offer from UofM for the extra money over an offer from NDSU. Since the small and mid-schools have strength in numbers, put yourself in their shoes and determine which option you would prefer? What other option would you propose that would prevent option 1 from happening?

But, you must have missed my "FBS light" comment as this is what it would create. Why would the MAC and Sunbelt schools etc. agree to this when you have no chance at any real national title? Or don't they care? The chips would be so fundamentally stacked against you, it would be moronic.

So, option three leads to FBS school, FBS schools who think they are FBS schools, but not really, and FCS. THAT is the definition of stupidity. I rather have 3 true subdivisions than this.

Option 2 is the way to go. Bring FCS and FBS light together in a true playoff format for a true title with a truly level playing field, except for the schools who think it is cool not to give scholarships in football.

[IndyBison]

But, you must have missed my "FBS light" comment as this is what it would create. Why would the MAC and Sunbelt schools etc. agree to this when you have no chance at any real national title? Or don't they care? The chips would be so fundamentally stacked against you, it would be moronic.

So, option three leads to FBS school, FBS schools who think they are FBS schools, but not really, and FCS. THAT is the definition of stupidity. I rather have 3 true subdivisions than this.

Option 2 is the way to go. Bring FCS and FBS light together in a true playoff format for a true title with a truly level playing field, except for the schools who think it is cool not to give scholarships in football.
I would guess there is a lot of money lost at stake if they go with option 2. If this is one of the options on the table I assume the lower FBS schools would get a smaller cut of the basketball TV money and none of the FBS playoff money. Option 3 would make competing for championships harder in the few high profile sports but they really aren't competing for them today.

Again, you are the administrator for a lower FBS school or an FCS school, do you want to lose a lot of the revenue you have to fund all your programs or do you want to keep the revenue and have a disadvantage in a couple sports? And FCS could still exist in option 3 for football.

[THEsocalledfan]

I would guess there is a lot of money lost at stake if they go with option 2. If this is one of the options on the table I assume the lower FBS schools would get a smaller cut of the basketball TV money and none of the FBS playoff money. Option 3 would make competing for championships harder in the few high profile sports but they really aren't competing for them today.

Again, you are the administrator for a lower FBS school or an FCS school, do you want to lose a lot of the revenue you have to fund all your programs or do you want to keep the revenue and have a disadvantage in a couple sports? And FCS could still exist in option 3 for football.

Okay, I need more education on this money thing, then.

1. Does NDSU somehow fundamentally get less basketball money because they are FCS? I am not understanding how option 2 affects basketball money as I thought the NCAA divided that out.
2. My understanding is that FBS football money largely resides at the conference level. Is the contention that the TV deals suffer for second rate FBS conferences if that are not under the illusion of being at the highest level, even thought they arent'? Is it a bowl money issue? To me, if the FCS format could be made so much bigger with more schools competing, they may make more money of a good playoff system than stupid bowl games.

[IndyBison]

Okay, I need more education on this money thing, then.

1. Does NDSU somehow fundamentally get less basketball money because they are FCS? I am not understanding how option 2 affects basketball money as I thought the NCAA divided that out.
2. My understanding is that FBS football money largely resides at the conference level. Is the contention that the TV deals suffer for second rate FBS conferences if that are not under the illusion of being at the highest level, even thought they arent'? Is it a bowl money issue? To me, if the FCS format could be made so much bigger with more schools competing, they may make more money of a good playoff system than stupid bowl games.

I believe the money is spread out fairly liberally to the lower FBS/FCS schools today. The collective top 60 schools are primarily responsible for a large amount of money the NCAA takes in for TV contracts but they don't receive a proportional percentage of the money. They have kindly shared that money with all the other levels. Kentucky and Kansas get a bigger cut than UNI or NDSU but collectively the smaller 250 probably get more than the top 60. If the top 60 feel they could still get the bulk of that contract by separating in some way the lower FBS/FCS schools stands to lose a large portion of their cut.

The FBS football money is coming from the BCS bowls/playoffs and stands to grow. If the top 60 are able to keep this separate and keep the lower FBS schools out they will stand to make a lot more money individually. If the BCS playoffs has to include the lower FBS schools they will have to share the money with them and they don't want to do that like they do for basketball.

I am basing all of this on articles I've read and stories I've seen about the structure of college athletics so don't take any of it as fact but it does appear to be the core of the issues. It's probably even more complex than this. It always is.

[THEsocalledfan]

I believe the money is spread out fairly liberally to the lower FBS/FCS schools today. The collective top 60 schools are primarily responsible for a large amount of money the NCAA takes in for TV contracts but they don't receive a proportional percentage of the money. They have kindly shared that money with all the other levels. Kentucky and Kansas get a bigger cut than UNI or NDSU but collectively the smaller 250 probably get more than the top 60. If the top 60 feel they could still get the bulk of that contract by separating in some way the lower FBS/FCS schools stands to lose a large portion of their cut.

The FBS football money is coming from the BCS bowls/playoffs and stands to grow. If the top 60 are able to keep this separate and keep the lower FBS schools out they will stand to make a lot more money individually. If the BCS playoffs has to include the lower FBS schools they will have to share the money with them and they don't want to do that like they do for basketball.

I am basing all of this on articles I've read and stories I've seen about the structure of college athletics so don't take any of it as fact but it does appear to be the core of the issues. It's probably even more complex than this. It always is.

It is a messed up system, no doubt. And no doubt I will be pissed about whatever happens. I long for an optimal subdivision set up with BCS schools in one, and the rest in another with full ability to play each other and playoffs in each (and I admit with playoffs, that may be less attractive to BCS schools). Junk all the bowls except the BCS ones, and put those titles on the national quarter and semis. Of some of the second rate bowls want to sponsor the lower subdivision semi's etc, fine with me.

I am just sick and tired of people somehow thinking NDSU plays on a lower level than say Northern Illinois or Ball st. And yes we do play on a lower level than most BCS schools, but not all. Why can't NDSU find that right spot? I feel like history is repeating itself.

[IndyBison]

It is a messed up system, no doubt. And no doubt I will be pissed about whatever happens. I long for an optimal subdivision set up with BCS schools in one, and the rest in another with full ability to play each other and playoffs in each (and I admit with playoffs, that may be less attractive to BCS schools). Junk all the bowls except the BCS ones, and put those titles on the national quarter and semis. Of some of the second rate bowls want to sponsor the lower subdivision semi's etc, fine with me.

I am just sick and tired of people somehow thinking NDSU plays on a lower level than say Northern Illinois or Ball st. And yes we do play on a lower level than most BCS schools, but not all. Why can't NDSU find that right spot? I feel like history is repeating itself.
It would definitely be a much simpler system if all the money wasn't involved. That's why the playoffs work so smoothly at the lower levels...not much money at stake. They do bleed a little more out by having schools bid to host.

I'm in the minority as I enjoy the bowl games. Even the crap ones between no-name schools. I happened to be in Memphis one year during the Liberty Bowl. There were a lot of cool activities going on around the game and the city really supported it. Alumni from both schools were there in good numbers too. I like the tradition of certain conferences playing each other in the same bowls each year (i.e. Rose, Sugar, even Liberty).

The bowl games and championships don't go together though. I've always said they should either scrap the idea of a national champion and just have conference champions and bowl champions. Or scrap the bowl system entirely and have a regular playoff. The playoff games would be hosted by teams like FCS and lower. Even the big schools wouldn't travel in large numbers to 3 straight road games in a playoff. Basketball is not a good analogy because the early rounds have 4 or 8 teams at a site and typically only have to fill a 15-20k seat arena. When I was at the Big Ten Championship game last year I talked to a lot of Wisconsin and Nebraska fans who said they had to decide between the Big Ten Championship or whichever bowl they would get. The said that was true for a lot of people which partially explained the half empty stadium for the game. Neutral site early round games would probably get 20-30k. Home games would be sold out.

[westnodak93bison]

I'm tired of the power play to prevent parody in d1 football.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Bison03]

MVFC Commissioner Patty Viverito comments:

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407524/group/Sports/

[tony]

MVFC Commissioner Patty Viverito comments:

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407524/group/Sports/

If she posted those comments on this board, I'd have given her some rep. :)

Been a pretty big fan of Patty V. since the time she made it possible for USD to join the Summit.

[ndsubison1]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22988242/college-football-postseason-formats-evolve-but-catalyst-remains-same

[NDSUstudent]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22988242/college-football-postseason-formats-evolve-but-catalyst-remains-same

A non-BCS playoff forming would mean it is time to move up...the FCS playoffs would become completely irrelevant.

[344Johnson]

My enter bar is not working. Well Northern Bison.....Better call Ohio State up, they got waxed by LSU in a title game a few years back. Better call Oklahoma up, they lost to USC by like 40 back in '03. I guess these schools shouldn't be allowed in this new D-I division either. Notre Dame went 12-0 in the regular season. They beat Stanford. The only other school who could even remotely challenge Alabama for the right to the play Notre Dame was Oregon. Notice how I didn't say the right to play Alabama. Notre Dame had the best regular season out of anyone in the nation. Alabama lost to A&M. Oregon lost to Stanford. Notre Dame didn't lose to anyone and played a solid schedule. Before you feed anyone bullshit about Oregon deserving the title game more than Notre Dame...remember, not only did Stanford beat Oregon, but Notre Dame also beat USC in about as convincing a fashion as Oregon did. So....Oregon's two marquee games....Notre Dame beat those two, while Oregon went 1-1 against said teams. Notre Dame belonged in the title game. The only argument that can be made is whether Alabama, K-State, Stanford, or Oregon belonged there. Alabama belonged there virtue of there conference. If you put Stanford, Oregon, or K-State, or even Notre Dame in the SEC, I think those three teams lose at least a game just like Alabama, in K-State and Oregon's case, I think they lose multiple games. Sorry, but if you can't play defense, you lose in the SEC. I give Notre Dame the benefit of the doubt because the best coach in college football had a month to get ready, and because Notre Dame made every offense they play look silly the entire season until that game. Alabama's strength was just better than what made Notre Dame great all year, the LOS. It broke my heart. I was scared that was what would happen. And it did. They ran the ball all over Notre Dame....but if you wanna suggest some other team belonged in the championship that was not Notre Dame, I don't know what world you are living in....it certainly is not Earth.

[SamsRams]

A non-BCS playoff forming would mean it is time to move up...the FCS playoffs would become completely irrelevant.

I dont agree, I dont see any way the MAC's and Sun Belt's of the world continue to fund at their current level when the BCS schools cut them out. Does anyone have a good reason as to why Ohio or UNLV would continue to fund 85 scholarships if they cant win the 85 scholarship championship? Many schools are struggling to keep up with this funding model. Sure maybe it will be more than 63 as FCS is now but it will be closer to 63 than 85 and the day it happens the day the MVFC adopts the same scholarships numbers. I believe they will move to 3 DI divisions. BCS, FCS and schools like the Ivy and Pioneer. IMO, NDSU has positioned itself perfectly for when the big shake up happens

[unbison]

I dont agree, I dont see any way the MAC's and Sun Belt's of the world continue to fund at their current level when the BCS schools cut them out. Does anyone have a good reason as to why Ohio or UNLV would continue to fund 85 scholarships if they cant win the 85 scholarship championship? Many schools are struggling to keep up with this funding model. Sure maybe it will be more than 63 as FCS is now but it will be closer to 63 than 85 and the day it happens the day the MVFC adopts the same scholarships numbers. I believe they will move to 3 DI divisions. BCS, FCS and schools like the Ivy and Pioneer. IMO, NDSU has positioned itself perfectly for when the big shake up happens

Might hurt both of our feelings but I agree with this 1000%

[NDSUstudent]

I dont agree, I dont see any way the MAC's and Sun Belt's of the world continue to fund at their current level when the BCS schools cut them out. Does anyone have a good reason as to why Ohio or UNLV would continue to fund 85 scholarships if they cant win the 85 scholarship championship? Many schools are struggling to keep up with this funding model. Sure maybe it will be more than 63 as FCS is now but it will be closer to 63 than 85 and the day it happens the day the MVFC adopts the same scholarships numbers. I believe they will move to 3 DI divisions. BCS, FCS and schools like the Ivy and Pioneer. IMO, NDSU has positioned itself perfectly for when the big shake up happens

Well I agree that NDSU needs to be in the middle tier of DI football. I do agree it will move to three levels eventually, just not sure how it will breakdown.

[Tony Almeida]

All you guys are still forgetting one little factor that will determine whether we get into one of those "D1 divisions" you speak of...
3 words - location, location, location...

Unless the entire MVFC goes with, we will always be the odd man.

[KSBisonFan]

Once the NCAA decides to punish Johnny Football for collecting cash for autographs, the timetable for the SEC and the other big conferences will be accelerated. The NCAA is in a no-win situation on this one.

[THEsocalledfan]

All you guys are still forgetting one little factor that will determine whether we get into one of those "D1 divisions" you speak of...
3 words - location, location, location...

Unless the entire MVFC goes with, we will always be the odd man.

No doubt location is important, but again, it depends how it shakes out. It could be that MVFC has to move if FCS became the non-scholie division, as an extreme example.

[NorthernBison]

My enter bar is not working. Well Northern Bison.....Better call Ohio State up, they got waxed by LSU in a title game a few years back. Better call Oklahoma up, they lost to USC by like 40 back in '03. I guess these schools shouldn't be allowed in this new D-I division either. Notre Dame went 12-0 in the regular season. They beat Stanford. The only other school who could even remotely challenge Alabama for the right to the play Notre Dame was Oregon. Notice how I didn't say the right to play Alabama. Notre Dame had the best regular season out of anyone in the nation. Alabama lost to A&M. Oregon lost to Stanford. Notre Dame didn't lose to anyone and played a solid schedule. Before you feed anyone bullshit about Oregon deserving the title game more than Notre Dame...remember, not only did Stanford beat Oregon, but Notre Dame also beat USC in about as convincing a fashion as Oregon did. So....Oregon's two marquee games....Notre Dame beat those two, while Oregon went 1-1 against said teams. Notre Dame belonged in the title game. The only argument that can be made is whether Alabama, K-State, Stanford, or Oregon belonged there. Alabama belonged there virtue of there conference. If you put Stanford, Oregon, or K-State, or even Notre Dame in the SEC, I think those three teams lose at least a game just like Alabama, in K-State and Oregon's case, I think they lose multiple games. Sorry, but if you can't play defense, you lose in the SEC. I give Notre Dame the benefit of the doubt because the best coach in college football had a month to get ready, and because Notre Dame made every offense they play look silly the entire season until that game. Alabama's strength was just better than what made Notre Dame great all year, the LOS. It broke my heart. I was scared that was what would happen. And it did. They ran the ball all over Notre Dame....but if you wanna suggest some other team belonged in the championship that was not Notre Dame, I don't know what world you are living in....it certainly is not Earth.

I expected you would miss the REAL POINT of my comment. You spend all your time over at the Hitler Youth Board making inane comments about nothing and defending NDSU in a place where nobody cares. Do you know what is REALLY happening in college football.

I used ND as an example of what the power conferences could use as a Catalyst to force change. What is that?

They need somebody to get into the title game with a questionable schedule and questionable credentials and get waxed.

Good grief. Since the beatdown in January, there has been a lot of excuses and justification for the schedule that ND played. So what? Even if it makes sense, it isn't like they played an SEC schedule. I question their credentials to get to that game based on the outcome. I think that's fair (I never said it was correct)

Even better would be a Boise State type of program going unbeaten and getting absolutely run over in the title game. That would give the top 4 or 5 conferences all the cover they need to walk away from the BCS and set up their own playoff system. In that case, nobody would say a word about their reason for doing it.

Stop and THINK about what has been happening. First ONE AD or conference commissioner expresses a thought about the differences. Then another and another. All of that is just setting an expectation. Priming the pump and letting everybody know that they aren't real happy. Eventually something will happen to trigger a change. If it doesn't happen naturally, then it should be posisble to "invent" something or just blow something out of proportion.

You're a ND fan. Do you honestly think they will be allowed to remain independent? Hogwash. Not after what happened in January. A lot of other teams would have been boatraced by Alabama but it actually happened to ND. There's a difference.

[IndyBison]

Once the NCAA decides to punish Johnny Football for collecting cash for autographs, the timetable for the SEC and the other big conferences will be accelerated. The NCAA is in a no-win situation on this one.
I was thinking about that connection this morning as well. The problem with that is the flood gates it opens. If you allow the players to get paid for autographs then suddenly Jim Cardealer will offer Billy Speed $150k for his autograph if he agrees to attend State U. "We aren't paying players. I just see the value in his autograph." Obviously that is different than paying $5 for your autograph but now you have to draw a line. And that line would have to be drawn for a lot of things. If I can pay for a hotel for a player's family to attend a game, what is the limit I can pay? What if they want to come for a few days? A week? I paid for the whole season at the Ritz. Even if the big 5 splits off to create their own rules, they will eventually end up with similarly ridiculous rules because somebody is getting an unfair financial advantage.

Reminds me of this joke:
Man (to woman): Would you sleep with me for $1 million?
Woman: Yes I would
Man: Would you sleep with me for $50?
Woman: What do you think I am, a whore?
Man: We've already established that. Now we are just negotiating price.

[NorthernBison]

The split won't be from the NCAA for the simple reason that setting up a new system of rules and monitoring would be incredibly wasteful. It would be tweaking something that already exists.

There is a huge incentive for the NCAA to let them do what they want and that provides an incentive for the power conferences to stay with the NCAA for their other sports.

[SDbison]

Once the NCAA decides to punish Johnny Football for collecting cash for autographs, the timetable for the SEC and the other big conferences will be accelerated. The NCAA is in a no-win situation on this one. Actually the schedule for separating the "Big Heads" (as I like to call them) from the rest of NCAA football will accelerate after NDSU beats Kansas State. Does anyone think top FBS teams want their fans to believe some puny FCS team can beat them? What better than to break things off soon and prevent a game like this from ever happening again. Just a shame. I really believe the talent levels from top to bottom of all DI have been compressed over the past 10 years. I also like to believe that the game of football involves more than just pure talent........that teamwork, dedication and desire have a bit to do with the outcome of the game. In these days of individual player worship in team sports..........to make these guys even more spoiled based on their perceived individual worth cannot be good for the game in the long run. In my opinion these gifted athletes are so hung up on themselves that they don't always improve the team as much a they could. This is where teams that have more desire and teamwork can upset the individual focused teams. Again, putting all the Big Heads together in their money making heaven without challenge will make them college football Gods, but once the stage is set maybe image will become more important than performance. Spoiled doesn't mean better. Are these guys professionals or college athletes?

[bisonaudit]

Are these guys professionals or college athletes?

Yes. But the bigger scandal isn't who's not getting paid, it's who is.

[bisonmike2]

Way to go NCAA.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/jay-bilas-exposes-further-ncaa-hypocrisy-forces-removal-225910661.html

[HerdBot]

Way to go NCAA.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/jay-bilas-exposes-further-ncaa-hypocrisy-forces-removal-225910661.html

That's pretty funny, actually.

[bisonmike2]

That's pretty funny, actually.

It is funny. The NCAA can't stop shooting themselves in the foot over this issue.