Article Suggests there are 3 tiers of D I Football

[jimmyptubas]

What does Bisonville think about this article. Is he right?

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/700-the-three-subdivisions-of-college-football

[EndZoneQB]

Yes? Because there are 3 tiers of DI football? BCS, FBS, FCS.

[Professor Chaos]

He's right, there are three levels of D1 football. Just like there's three levels of D1 basketball; high majors, mid majors, and low majors.

There's no shame in not being in the top division in either if you have a passionate, if only regional, fan base that fills your stadium/arena and generates excitement around every game.

[Trumpster]

I think if he's going to make up an acronym, he should continue to use it consistently. He said FWS but used BWS a couple times. I find it quite annoying.

[HerdBot]

Yes? Because there are 3 tiers of DI football? BCS, FBS, FCS.

Technically all FBS conferences are BCS. This is commonly confused with BCS auto bid leagues. Of course the AQ means everything

[EndZoneQB]

Technically all FBS conferences are BCS. This is commonly confused with BCS auto bid leagues. Of course the AQ means everything

Yet, the FBS isn't all BCS, so there are three tiers of D-I football.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Actually are not all BCS teams FBS but not all FBS teams are BCS eligible

[HerdBot]

Yet, the FBS isn't all BCS, so there are three tiers of D-I football.

This explains it. All FBS conferences are BCS. Problem is small conferences that don't have an auto bid rarely are ranked high enough

http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4809793

" What is a BCS conference?

All 11 conferences in the Football Bowl Subdivision are "BCS conferences." The media and others often misuse this term, using the term "BCS conference" to describe a conference that has earned annual automatic qualification for its champion (see above). For more information on BCS conferences, click here."

[EndZoneQB]

This explains it. All FBS conferences are BCS. Problem is small conferences that don't have an auto bid rarely are ranked high enough

http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4809793

" What is a BCS conference?

All 11 conferences in the Football Bowl Subdivision are "BCS conferences." The media and others often misuse this term, using the term "BCS conference" to describe a conference that has earned annual automatic qualification for its champion (see above). For more information on BCS conferences, click here."

gabe, I know how it works. Based on this knowledge of what is presented above, there are 3 levels of D-I football.

[HerdBot]

Actually are not all BCS teams FBS but not all FBS teams are BCS eligible

If your ranked in the top 14 in a non auto bid conference, you're eligible for a big bcs game. Rarely happens

[HerdBot]

gabe, I know how it works. Based on this knowledge of what is presented above, there are 3 levels of D-I football.

Pretty much with the rare exception of Northern Illinois

[jimmyptubas]

I would tend to agree with Longhorn and the author of this column ( BTW the BWS and FWS inconsistency bothered me too). 3 "de facto" tiers. I have even heard that the 5 top conferences want to make it official and form their own level....but with the payoff they are doing now it seems unnecessary.

[gumby013]

I would argue there are more tiers:

FBS (AQ)
FBS (Non AQ)
FCS
FCS (Limited Scholarship)
FCS (Non-Scholarship)

[JMB]

The guy is basically right. It is the "have's" vs. the "have not's". In many ways its like an exclusive golf club, we will invite you to play a round (N. Ill) but you can't be a member.

I found the comment at the end interesting. the Appalachain St. fan who said the Sun Belt is a stepping stone for them to get to the BCS. Granted he is just a guy sharing his opinion, but I am not sure how easy that club is to get into anymore. I don't even know if you want to be there anyways as it does have some negative effects on the University. Its amazing how often people call for the head of the President of the University because the AD is doing a crappy job... We are going to evaluate the performance of the head of a massive research and teaching organization based on the performance of the athletic department that engages with 1-2% of the student population? (Sorry I drifted off topic a bit...)

[BisonNeil]

Thanks for posting the article Jimmy. It articulates very, very well why I think it is complete and utter nonsense for NDSU to seek FBS. FWS is a losing proposition for nothing more than a bunch of wannabe fans who perceive that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

[BisonTeacher]

Yep 3.

1. Teams that Minnesota will lose to.
2. Teams that Minnesota won't lose to.
3. Teams that Minnesota are no longer allowed to play because Minnesota doesn't want to lose to them.

[ndsubison1]

This explains it. All FBS conferences are BCS. Problem is small conferences that don't have an auto bid rarely are ranked high enough

http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4809793

" What is a BCS conference?

All 11 conferences in the Football Bowl Subdivision are "BCS conferences." The media and others often misuse this term, using the term "BCS conference" to describe a conference that has earned annual automatic qualification for its champion (see above). For more information on BCS conferences, click here."

the bcs is just saying that to be politically correct and not try to down talk the other conferences. i still see bcs as the power conferences. the teams like northern illinois, boise state and the like are just good or lucky enough to join them from time to time

[Bison"FANatic"]

Yep 3.

1. Teams that Minnesota will lose to.
2. Teams that Minnesota won't lose to.
3. Teams that Minnesota are no longer allowed to play because Minnesota doesn't want to lose to them.

Are there enough teams in number 2 to even call it a group or a level of play??? :):)

[BisonTeacher]

Are there enough teams in number 2 to even call it a group or a level of play??? :):)

It is a small group. But a group nonetheless.

[dragonsfan]

so ndsu needs to be in tier 2 no ifs and or butts you guys are good enough and have a great fanbase with loyalty. Its time to make fargo a name for itself other than the movie. plus the higher level ndsu gets, the better athletes msum can get

[THEsocalledfan]

so ndsu needs to be in tier 2 no ifs and or butts you guys are good enough and have a great fanbase with loyalty. Its time to make fargo a name for itself other than the movie. plus the higher level ndsu gets, the better athletes msum can get

Agreed, but the landscape will need to "formally" change before they do that. In other words, stay FCS and see if a true schism of FBS and BCS occurs, then jump FBS.

[jimmyptubas]

Jump fbs if and when they go to a playoff format like the fcs and our new conference has an Aq

[Herd]

2 Scholarship Levels, 2 Championships, 2 Tiers . . . sorry, there is no such things as 3 tiers.

[Strongman]

Thanks for posting the article Jimmy. It articulates very, very well why I think it is complete and utter nonsense for NDSU to seek FBS. FWS is a losing proposition for nothing more than a bunch of wannabe fans who perceive that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.


Why? NDSU would already be competitive to compete for a conference title in a non BCS conference, College Football Playoff is officially starting in 2014, and "all" our top playoff rivals are moving up. By 2018, the $ will "force" a 16 to 20 team playoff. (I don't care what the contract says.) That would mean NDSU would be eligible for the playoffs. Due to NDSU's fan base, isolated location from other DI schools, facilities, and $, NDSU is more like Boise State than the numerous other schools that failed moving up. (Yes, Boise State was a crap DII school back in the 1970s.)

[perthbison]

I would argue there are more tiers:

FBS (AQ)
FBS (Non AQ)
FCS
FCS (Limited Scholarship)
FCS (Non-Scholarship)This is a good argument. I'm really wondering what some of these programs will do for money. Especially like Boise. The economy isn't good out there. Northern Colorado's hopes fell into the toilet when their money didn't show up. Just wonder what some of the teams that are "up there" will look like when they can't raise enough money.

[SamsRams]

if NDSU were ranked #1 in the BCS poll before bowls they would get a bcs invite. so NDSU is bcs. only one tier. BOOM

[BisonNeil]

Why? NDSU would already be competitive to compete for a conference title in a non BCS conference, College Football Playoff is officially starting in 2014, and "all" our top playoff rivals are moving up. By 2018, the $ will "force" a 16 to 20 team playoff. (I don't care what the contract says.) That would mean NDSU would be eligible for the playoffs. Due to NDSU's fan base, isolated location from other DI schools, facilities, and $, NDSU is more like Boise State than the numerous other schools that failed moving up. (Yes, Boise State was a crap DII school back in the 1970s.)

That's a pipe dream. The contract runs to 2026 and the top tier 5 conferences aren't letting anybody else in to share their doe. There is no chance in hell of NDSU ever competing for a NC at the level BIG, PAC12, SEC, ACC, and Big12 play in. NONE. To think differently is just being completely naive.

[westnodak93bison]

That's a pipe dream. The contract runs to 2026 and the top tier 5 conferences aren't letting anybody else in to share their doe. There is no chance in hell of NDSU ever competing for a NC at the level BIG, PAC12, SEC, ACC, and Big12 play in. NONE. To think differently is just being completely naive.

To break the strangle hold we really need a 20+ team playoff like the FCS. The big schools don't want it for obvious financial reasons. Recruiting would change and create more parody.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[BisonTeacher]

That's a pipe dream. The contract runs to 2026 and the top tier 5 conferences aren't letting anybody else in to share their doe. There is no chance in hell of NDSU ever competing for a NC at the level BIG, PAC12, SEC, ACC, and Big12 play in. NONE. To think differently is just being completely naive.

But arent you forgetting about "national exposure" and all the spoils it brings?

[BisonNation11]

But arent you forgetting about "national exposure" and all the spoils it brings?

Love me some gift bags!!! Love me some other ESPN idiot trying to talk about my team like he knows what's up!!! Love me a bowl full of tampons for a trophy!!!

Seriously anybody thinking we would compete for even a 20 team playoff system in the FBS is dreaming. We could go undefeated for a season in the MAC and guess what? It's still up to voters to decide our ranking and whether we get in the playoffs. Not happening. I am perfectly happy where we are, winning championships, and if you think exposure is what is needed to get good kids to come here, I say to you look at the 2013 recruiting class. Those kids will be studs.

[IBleedYellow]

so ndsu needs to be in tier 2 no ifs and or butts you guys are good enough and have a great fanbase with loyalty. Its time to make fargo a name for itself other than the movie. plus the higher level ndsu gets, the better athletes msum can get

Sorry, No. I don't want our program to be losing money, which if you read the article, there are very few non G5 schools that are making money.

[BisonNeil]

To break the strangle hold we really need a 20+ team playoff like the FCS. The big schools don't want it for obvious financial reasons. Recruiting would change and create more parody.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

20 team playoff in major college football? Seriously?

They now play a 12 game season.

Conference champions in the mega-conferences, which includes everyone except the Big12, play a championship game, making 13 games.

A 20+ team format means that teams that get the NC game play at least 3 more games, making a total of 16 games.

One of the major reasons that a playoff has taken so long now is the constant resistance against making football athletes a) bridge over a semester (as if they are the only sport that has to do that), and b) a playoff system would mean too many games for the student-athlete. When the argument has been made that other divisions of football such as DIII, DII, and DIAA all play 14-15 games already it has been always pointed out, in a buttbama fashion, that the physicality of major college football is just too great to institute a similar playoff process.

And truthfully, look at the havoc raised on the Bison football players having played 30 games over the past two years and 43 over the last three!

So, again, a 20+ format won't happen until after 2026 and my guess it never will, just another rationalization for those of you who are convinced that the grass is indeed, greener on the other side and that NDSU is so special someone will actually want us.

[BisonTeacher]

20 team playoff in major college football? Seriously?

They now play a 12 game season.

Conference champions in the mega-conferences, which includes everyone except the Big12, play a championship game, making 13 games.

A 20+ team format means that teams that get the NC game play at least 3 more games, making a total of 16 games.

One of the major reasons that a playoff has taken so long now is the constant resistance against making football athletes a) bridge over a semester (as if they are the only sport that has to do that), and b) a playoff system would mean too many games for the student-athlete. When the argument has been made that other divisions of football such as DIII, DII, and DIAA all play 14-15 games already it has been always pointed out, in a buttbama fashion, that the physicality of major college football is just too great to institute a similar playoff process.

And truthfully, look at the havoc raised on the Bison football players having played 30 games over the past two years and 43 over the last three!

So, again, a 20+ format won't happen until after 2026 and my guess it never will, just another rationalization for those of you who are convinced that the grass is indeed, greener on the other side and that NDSU is so special someone will actually want us.

I remember reading an article recently stating another reason against it is that the more games = more class time missed and hurts their academics.


Just found it. "Just one extra game means a slew of more practices, film sessions and team meetings for those student-athletes."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/30/opinion/moore-football-playoff/index.html?iref=allsearch

[tjbison]

maybe this has been posted but its a good read

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/702-those-predicting-the-demise-of-fcs-ought-to-read-their-history-books

[BisonNeil]

I get a kick out of college football writer 'wannabes' who still can't keep the DI levels straight. This one says that the 10 FCS commissioners just picked a name for the new playoff :D

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130423/college-football-playoff-to-replace-bcs.ap/?eref=sircrc

[56BISON73]

I remember reading an article recently stating another reason against it is that the more games = more class time missed and hurts their academics.


Just found it. "Just one extra game means a slew of more practices, film sessions and team meetings for those student-athletes."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/30/opinion/moore-football-playoff/index.html?iref=allsearch

Hmmm what is their excuse for basketball? They play 30 games? All of their supposed excuses were nothing more than bullshit rhetoric to try and keep the current bowl system in place.

[BisonTeacher]

Hmmm what is their excuse for basketball? They play 30 games? All of their supposed excuses were nothing more than bullshit rhetoric to try and keep the current bowl system in place.

Totally agreed. They did address BBall in the article..."The academic status of participating dribblers often has been a disaster."

I wonder if some of those academic disasters would even be in school without sports. And IM sure those kids would be getting all A's if they didnt have sports getting in the way.

[AjaxTheMighty]

so ndsu needs to be in tier 2 no ifs and or butts you guys are good enough and have a great fanbase with loyalty. Its time to make fargo a name for itself other than the movie. plus the higher level ndsu gets, the better athletes msum can get

Stop pretending you are a dragon fan lakes. It's getting stupid. You've definitely stopped caring whether people know anymore. Same terrible grammar, no capitalization, only post about FBS move. You don't care about NDSU athletics. All you care about is getting to the next tier regardless of whether it hurts the athletics department or not so you can say, what? "We are FBS, Look at us now!" That would be the only benefit. NDSU plays in a 18,700 capacity dome. Time to quit the peyote. I'm getting sick of all your posts revolving around moving to FBS. Let it go. You have no say in the matter. Live in the now! You don't fool anyone. Your obsession with FBS is all about you and your pride. It has nothing to do with the Bison. Good thing your pride doesn't make decisions at this great university.

[Hammerhead]

I guess the NCAA should ban football games on Wed. & Thurs. to minimize lost class time for travelling.
Just this last week the Gonzaga Baseball team was on my Thursday flight down to Los Angeles and the Gopher gymnastics team was at the next gate on Monday morning.



I get a kick out of college football writer 'wannabes' who still can't keep the DI levels straight. This one says that the 10 FCS commissioners just picked a name for the new playoff :D

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130423/college-football-playoff-to-replace-bcs.ap/?eref=sircrc

[td577]

A couple four things or so need to happen:

1. Have your 64 team BCS with full compliment of scholarships.
2. Have the next tier be similar to FCS setup now but every school has to offer scholarships unless they are exempted like military academies.
3. If schools don't want to fund football at that level, move them down to D2 or D3.
4. Quit tying football to other sports to be D1. For example, let schools play D2 football and D1 in all other sports. They have the exception in hockey, make it so in football. Football only though, no picking divisions in other sports other than all in the same level.

Too many schools want football but don't have the support to fund it properly for the level they want other sports at.

[IBleedYellow]

A couple four things or so need to happen:

1. Have your 64 team BCS with full compliment of scholarships.
2. Have the next tier be similar to FCS setup now but every school has to offer scholarships unless they are exempted like military academies.
3. If schools don't want to fund football at that level, move them down to D2 or D3.
4. Quit tying football to other sports to be D1. For example, let schools play D2 football and D1 in all other sports. They have the exception in hockey, make it so in football. Football only though, no picking divisions in other sports other than all in the same level.

Too many schools want football but don't have the support to fund it properly for the level they want other sports at.

The only reason hockey is this way is due to the number of colleges that don't want to sponsor hockey at the DI level. Point four makes no sense in my opinion. All sports at a school should be competing at the same level.

[Herd]

The only reason hockey is this way is due to the number of colleges that don't want to sponsor hockey at the DI level. Point four makes no sense in my opinion. All sports at a school should be competing at the same level.

Having DI basketball, then competing in DII football was deemed to be an unfair advantage financially for the DI basketball schools, some of which make big money with their BB programs. You'd have DI basketball schools playing DII football with 2x and 3x the budgets of the DII's. It would seem that on the field that would be fairly equal however.

As for DI hockey, if they forced the non-DI schools out to play hockey at their primary Divison level, the DI sport would die and lose 40% of its teams, so that would never happen. Heck, historically, most of the WCHA was non-DI.

[Bisonator98]

Having DI basketball, then competing in DII football was deemed to be an unfair advantage financially for the DI basketball schools, some of which make big money with their BB programs. You'd have DI basketball schools playing DII football with 2x and 3x the budgets of the DII's. It would seem that on the field that would be fairly equal however.

As for DI hockey, if they forced the non-DI schools out to play hockey at their primary Divison level, the DI sport would die and lose 40% of its teams, so that would never happen. Heck, historically, most of the WCHA was non-DI.

This^^^^^. Even though undies like to claim it's some great competition it's mostly non-DI teams. Highest level....bahhahhhahh!

[td577]

The only reason hockey is this way is due to the number of colleges that don't want to sponsor hockey at the DI level. Point four makes no sense in my opinion. All sports at a school should be competing at the same level.

I know why hockey is an exception but football has issues for other reasons. Football needs to be looked at differently. Instead of looking at the D1 to D3 levels in respect to other sports, those divisions need to be considered for the scholarship commitment. Take Creighton for instance. Instead of funding football at the minimum FCS level for all of their other sports to play D1, they don't play football. Would they be able to fund at the D2 level?

In my opinion, the Pioneer Football League shouldn't be in D1 football. Their members offer scholarships in other sports, but not football. That is no where near the same level of commitment as a UNI or WIU. They want football and need to play at the FCS to have football, but typically can't compete within the division. They went 9-21 in OOC games with a couple of the wins vs NAIA schools. Their average score against ranked FCS opponents was 44.5 to 11.5 with all 8 games losses. Interestingly, their best showing was Drake vs. Montana where Drake lost 14-24.

After the BCS schools, there are many schools figuring out the rotational average to minimize their scholarship commitment, not maximize it. If those schools don't want to commitment to 85 full scholarships, they should drop to FCS. Then there are the number of FCS programs without strong booster support who aren't making any money in football. So instead of dropping to a level where they can commit, they are going crazy and moving up thinking the next level will bring better financial security.

So if the NCAA disconnected football from the level requirement for all their sports, they will increase the quality and value of football. Looking at football from a scholarship commitment level will allow schools to find the level they can commit and quit bogging down the rest of the system.

95% of college football would not change. Most schools are at least comfortable where they are at. But when the superconferences break off and have their own division, there will be some major changes. I don't think there is room for the Pioneer League in the next level with 40 some programs now in the old FBS. So will their be 3 tiers of D1 football or still 2 tiers with the option to opt to a lower level in football only?

Now:
FBS schools - 85 scholarships
FCS schools - 63 scholarships
D2 - 36 scholarships
D3 - 0 scholarships

Possible future with every level with a playoff?:
BCS - 85 scholarships - 64 schools
FBS - 85 scholarships - 90 schools
FCS - 63 scholarships - 91 schools
D2 - 36 scholarships - 156 schools
D3 - 0 scholarships - 239 schools

We already see football only conferences and also D1 programs in other sports not even compete in football. I also think that NDSU would fit into that future FBS level as long as the requirement is scholarships and not facilities. With the current limitations we have created an FCS level that has entire conferences who can't compete, schools that don't even offer football, and crazy programs losing money at FCS that think they will be profitable at FBS.

[THEsocalledfan]

This^^^^^. Even though undies like to claim it's some great competition it's mostly non-DI teams. Highest level....bahhahhhahh!

Oh, be nice to the big UNDies. It is true many are D2 schools overall, but that is the highest level of hockey and the reality is most hockey interest is in the North where there just isn't that big a population. Thus, northern, smaller schools are able to compete with the Goophs, the Badgers and the like. Anyone who thinks Duluth plays hockey at a low level needs there head examined. It is great competition, no doubt about it.

I am tired of everyone ripping on hockey just because it is not as great as FCS football. I agree FCS football is much better, but hockey ain't bad either.

[BisonNeil]

Oh, be nice to the big UNDies. It is true many are D2 schools overall, but that is the highest level of hockey and the reality is most hockey interest is in the North where there just isn't that big a population. Thus, northern, smaller schools are able to compete with the Goophs, the Badgers and the like. Anyone who thinks Duluth plays hockey at a low level needs there head examined. It is great competition, no doubt about it.

I am tired of everyone ripping on hockey just because it is not as great as FCS football. I agree FCS football is much better, but hockey ain't bad either.

I absolutely agree with you.

I mean really, I could hardly sleep the night before the Quinnipiac and St. Cloud game. What a freakin' matchup! Truly one for the ages and much better than the UMass-Lowell and Yale game. What a yawner, not nearly the impact of the other two DI heavy weights.

And this Frozen Four far exceeded the one last year. Minnesota and BC, who gives a rip. The Union and Ferris State game rocked big time.

For pure and sheer utter enjoyment I will take DI wannabes like Quinney, St Cloud, Lowell, Union and Ferris State anyday because it just proves the point that ANYBODY can play, and win, a "DI" Hockey title. You gotta love that!!!! You really, really do...

[THEsocalledfan]

For pure and sheer utter enjoyment I will take DI wannabes like Quinney, St Cloud, Lowell, Union and Ferris State anyday because it just proves the point that ANYBODY can play, and win, a "DI" Hockey title. You gotta love that!!!! You really, really do...

Those who live in glass houses should not through stones. I mean, I am sure folks were lined up watching the FCS playoffs with the like of Sam Houstan St., Eastern Washington, Georgia Southern, and NDSU...... Yes, D1 schools, but not exactly top tier names, nationally.

Please realize I did think your post was darn funny, though.

[td577]

Those who live in glass houses should not through stones. I mean, I am sure folks were lined up watching the FCS playoffs with the like of Sam Houstan St., Eastern Washington, Georgia Southern, and NDSU...... Yes, D1 schools, but not exactly top tier names, nationally.

Please realize I did think your post was darn funny, though.

I think those in fcs are fully aware most of the country is probably not very well versed about this level or its schools. What makes what was said funny is that d1 hockey fans really think people do know and care. It's one thing to be in a niche sport; it is another to realize and appreciate it for what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonNeil]

I think those in fcs are fully aware most of the country is probably not very well versed about this level or its schools. What makes what was said funny is that d1 hockey fans really think people do know and care. It's one thing to be in a niche sport; it is another to realize and appreciate it for what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FINALLY, someone gets BNeil humor. Thanks!

[JMB]

I know why hockey is an exception but football has issues for other reasons. Football needs to be looked at differently. Instead of looking at the D1 to D3 levels in respect to other sports, those divisions need to be considered for the scholarship commitment. Take Creighton for instance. Instead of funding football at the minimum FCS level for all of their other sports to play D1, they don't play football. Would they be able to fund at the D2 level?

In my opinion, the Pioneer Football League shouldn't be in D1 football. Their members offer scholarships in other sports, but not football. That is no where near the same level of commitment as a UNI or WIU. They want football and need to play at the FCS to have football, but typically can't compete within the division. They went 9-21 in OOC games with a couple of the wins vs NAIA schools. Their average score against ranked FCS opponents was 44.5 to 11.5 with all 8 games losses. Interestingly, their best showing was Drake vs. Montana where Drake lost 14-24.

After the BCS schools, there are many schools figuring out the rotational average to minimize their scholarship commitment, not maximize it. If those schools don't want to commitment to 85 full scholarships, they should drop to FCS. Then there are the number of FCS programs without strong booster support who aren't making any money in football. So instead of dropping to a level where they can commit, they are going crazy and moving up thinking the next level will bring better financial security.

So if the NCAA disconnected football from the level requirement for all their sports, they will increase the quality and value of football. Looking at football from a scholarship commitment level will allow schools to find the level they can commit and quit bogging down the rest of the system.

95% of college football would not change. Most schools are at least comfortable where they are at. But when the superconferences break off and have their own division, there will be some major changes. I don't think there is room for the Pioneer League in the next level with 40 some programs now in the old FBS. So will their be 3 tiers of D1 football or still 2 tiers with the option to opt to a lower level in football only?

Now:
FBS schools - 85 scholarships
FCS schools - 63 scholarships
D2 - 36 scholarships
D3 - 0 scholarships

Possible future with every level with a playoff?:
BCS - 85 scholarships - 64 schools
FBS - 85 scholarships - 90 schools
FCS - 63 scholarships - 91 schools
D2 - 36 scholarships - 156 schools
D3 - 0 scholarships - 239 schools

We already see football only conferences and also D1 programs in other sports not even compete in football. I also think that NDSU would fit into that future FBS level as long as the requirement is scholarships and not facilities. With the current limitations we have created an FCS level that has entire conferences who can't compete, schools that don't even offer football, and crazy programs losing money at FCS that think they will be profitable at FBS.

Question for the board... If the BCS were to "split" and form its own league. How likely is it that their scholarship level remain at 85? If you take out the smaller conferences, do you have a remaining group that could fund football at a much higher level? Additionally, if they would raise the level, how much talent would disappear from the lower levels of football?

[THEsocalledfan]

Question for the board... If the BCS were to "split" and form its own league. How likely is it that their scholarship level remain at 85? If you take out the smaller conferences, do you have a remaining group that could fund football at a much higher level? Additionally, if they would raise the level, how much talent would disappear from the lower levels of football?

I don't know the answer to your question, but let me state the obvious:

If any of the changes happening right now in college football lead to FCS cutting scholarships like happened in D2, NDSU needs to get out fast. Please do not repeat the mistakes of the past...... We every bit belong on the same tier as the MAC schools; we do not belong at the same tier as the non-scholies and the schools who play FBS games only to balance the books, instead of actually trying to win.

[Hammerhead]

It's like N.D. high school hockey vs. Minn. high school hockey. N.D. only has 18 teams and 8 go to the state tournament. When I was in high school (class of 1986) I think there were only 12 or 14 teams.




For pure and sheer utter enjoyment I will take DI wannabes like Quinney, St Cloud, Lowell, Union and Ferris State anyday because it just proves the point that ANYBODY can play, and win, a "DI" Hockey title. You gotta love that!!!! You really, really do...

[JMB]

I don't know the answer to your question, but let me state the obvious:

If any of the changes happening right now in college football lead to FCS cutting scholarships like happened in D2, NDSU needs to get out fast. Please do not repeat the mistakes of the past...... We every bit belong on the same tier as the MAC schools; we do not belong at the same tier as the non-scholies and the schools who play FBS games only to balance the books, instead of actually trying to win.

You are right, the key is to benchmark some like minded and like sized schools (football priority with a similar sized athletic budget) and stay with that group. To me that is the Montana and Montana St's of the world. (Hell maybe we are in the wrong conference?) You are right, NDSU outgrew NDSU and to level the playing field they cut scholarships. I don't blame the membership because we were so better funded than almost everyone else, it was ridiculous.

However back to my point in the previous post. Do the Ohio State's, the Michigan's, the USC and Alabama's of the world look at FBS football and think "the division is being watered down! These small schools who can't adequately support football have come in and cut our scholarship levels to 85." Sounds like a conversation we often have on this board..

[Herd]

You are right, the key is to benchmark some like minded and like sized schools (football priority with a similar sized athletic budget) and stay with that group. To me that is the Montana and Montana St's of the world. (Hell maybe we are in the wrong conference?) You are right, NDSU outgrew NDSU and to level the playing field they cut scholarships. I don't blame the membership because we were so better funded than almost everyone else, it was ridiculous.

However back to my point in the previous post. Do the Ohio State's, the Michigan's, the USC and Alabama's of the world look at FBS football and think "the division is being watered down! These small schools who can't adequately support football have come in and cut our scholarship levels to 85." Sounds like a conversation we often have on this board..

The smaller conferences and schools in FBS don't have an avenue to the championship, so why would the top schools in FBS really care that a few more are being added. They have access to an exclusive championshp and all the top bowls. Does it matter if there are 120 or 130 schools? All they care about it the top 60.

What will create change is if the Bottom 5 FBS conferences start to push for more access to the championship, and instead the top 5 conferences completely lock them out. When the bottom 5 conferences start to discuss a need for having their own championship, then change will come.

Right now all FBS has the same scholarship level (85), and nothing suggesting Two scholarship Tiers will occur. Until something changes to makes the lower part of FBS see the need for a different scholarship level and their own championship, nothing will really change.

[JMB]

The smaller conferences and schools in FBS don't have an avenue to the championship, so why would the top schools in FBS really care that a few more are being added. They have access to an exclusive championshp and all the top bowls. Does it matter if there are 120 or 130 schools? All they care about it the top 60.

What will create change is if the Bottom 5 FBS conferences start to push for more access to the championship, and instead the top 5 conferences completely lock them out. When the bottom 5 conferences start to discuss a need for having their own championship, then change will come.

Right now all FBS has the same scholarship level (85), and nothing suggesting Two scholarship Tiers will occur. Until something changes to makes the lower part of FBS see the need for a different scholarship level and their own championship, nothing will really change.

Perhaps, but isn't the same complaints that we have about division 2 "watering down" and the level of commitment in FCS the exact same argument the BCS schools could have? They once had more than 90 scholarships and that has slowly been shrunk to 85. How do you think the Boise State and the Northern Illinois started to compete (or NDSU for that matter)? Lower scholarship levels have brought a level of parity. I think the "have's" (which would include all of the Big 10) would rather have more depth, especially if they can afford it.

(By the way the whole discussion was based on the idea that the BCS would split off and form its own league.)

[Bisonator98]

I know the BCS conferences and especially the Orange Bowl sponsers and ESPN were not happy to see Northern Illinois in last years bowl game.

I think the upper tier BCS teams already have like 100-125 players don't they? They could easily go to probably that many full scholarships and widen the margin between haves and have nots if they wanted to. Wouldn't be surprised to see it happen in the next 5-10 years.

[90 BISON]

I know the BCS conferences and especially the Orange Bowl sponsers and ESPN were not happy to see Northern Illinois in last years bowl game.

I think the upper tier BCS teams already have like 100-125 players don't they? They could easily go to probably that many full scholarships and widen the margin between haves and have nots if they wanted to. Wouldn't be surprised to see it happen in the next 5-10 years.

I would very much be surprised if any level agrees to ad scholarships for football. Most athletic departments even big name school's athletic departments are in the RED.

[Billings]

Given the concussion issue in football anyone who thinks that more games are going to be added by the FBS is not thinking it through. At most the playoffs go to 8 teams. Given the new payout formula with the playoffs, if a new team is added to a non AQ conference the payout to each school is reduced as it is a capped number per conference. I doubt any of the non AQ conferences add anyone else once they get to 12. Really doubt yo see many more FCS move-ups.

[BisonNeil]

The smaller conferences and schools in FBS don't have an avenue to the championship, so why would the top schools in FBS really care that a few more are being added. They have access to an exclusive championshp and all the top bowls. Does it matter if there are 120 or 130 schools? All they care about it the top 60.

They might. The "Group of Five" get revenue sharing from the new playoff system and it only stands to reason if you add teams to your league then each team gets less money.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21599899/smaller-conferences-crafting-blueprint-for-playoff-revenue-sharing