Only way I consider this season a success

[Burnt_Secondary]

OK, that's that. Everyone here knows my feelings on Saul and what I accept as a successful season.

Here is an addition for me. So far, didn't win the Summit tournament and no signature wins. So far I'm not pleased.

However, if we are as good as advertised, if we make a lesser tournament, even if it is the NIT. We need to make a run. These guys need to experience some big wins before next year. If they do win a game or two (or more) we had a successful season and I'll be off Sauls back for a year or two. (Which is pretty good for me.)

Nothing to hang our head about tonight though. I'm just turning the page.

[NorthernBison]

The NIT is the best tournament we have a shot at. Getting selected would be an honor.

[Tatanka]

What NorthernBison said. That said, I don't see it happening.

[1998braves64]

I agree on the big win thing they have not had one minus the 2009 summit championship (if you want to consider that a big win and a couple summit games that had a lot riding on them). Would love to see a win or two in the NIT/whatever tourney we end up in.

[IBleedYellow]

We need to get some other teams to win out so we can get an NIT invite. Longshot, but it would be nice to see us in the NIT.

[silkamilkamonico]

1 - We were a first round draft pick away from going to the dance.

2 - The no signature wins argument is not a good one for a small major. Most years we don't even get an opportunity to play one to get a chance. There aren't any in the conference.

3 - I like Saul. I'm not a big fan of his offense, and he has things that I wish he was better at, but so do 100% of the other coaches in Division 1.

It was a good game. Guys play so hard on defense, and the style of offense doesn't give them much room for error against a team like SDSU. SDSU is a real solid team. Respect.

[NorthernBison]

What NorthernBison said. That said, I don't see it happening.

Agreed. I don't know the NIT criteria but they don't seem to take mid-majors from one bid conferences unless they are forced to by the guaranteed autobid.

[silkamilkamonico]

There really is no criteria for the NIT

If you win your regular season conference, you get an invite.

Other than that, it's a complete subjective beauty contest. They have even lowered the criteria this year so teams don't have to have a winning record to be selected.

It wouldn't shock me if NDSU received an invite. But I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't, either.

Bison will get some tournament. Not the one they were looking for, but still a chance to get some good games in.

[NDSUstudent]

Our RPI is 69 right now...we are a fringe NIT team right now. We need all the conference #1 seeds to win to get in and a few have already fallen. Not saying it can't happen but it is tough.

We should absolutely be hosting a game in the CBI and if they won't give us a home game, decline and play in the CIT. This team should be playing their next game in the BSA if we aren't in the NIT.

[ThunderDan]

[QUOTE=silkamilkamonico;723724]1 - We were a first round draft pick away from going to the dance.

???? Surely you don't mean Wolters? I must be misunderstanding something. I hope you don't believe he's an NBA draft pick.

[NDSUstudent]

[QUOTE=silkamilkamonico;723724]1 - We were a first round draft pick away from going to the dance.

???? Surely you don't mean Wolters? I must be misunderstanding something. I hope you don't believe he's an NBA draft pick.

He will absolutely get drafted, round 1 might be a bit bullish though. The guy is a poor man's Luke Ridnour.

[XUBison]

We are not going to the NIT... CBI probably. Guys played well tonight but lost to the better team/player. Saul drives me nuts, and I wish he would move on. Problem is that he hasn't done anything that could be described as more than mediocre, so who would have any reason to pursue him? My fear is that we will tolerate mediocrity for way too long... like we did with Inniger. You know when you have someone dynamic, and I just don't think Saul is. By the way, the NIT is consolation, not an honor.

[ThunderDan]

[QUOTE=ThunderDan;723739]

He will absolutely get drafted, round 1 might be a bit bullish though. The guy is a poor man's Luke Ridnour.

I would like to bet money on this...lots of it if you are willing

[semobison]

[QUOTE=silkamilkamonico;723724]1 - We were a first round draft pick away from going to the dance.

???? Surely you don't mean Wolters? I must be misunderstanding something. I hope you don't believe he's an NBA draft pick.

The so called experts project Wolters as an early 2nd round NBA pick which means even if he is picked most likely he ends up in Europe.

[JSUBison]

There really is no criteria for the NIT

If you win your regular season conference, you get an invite.

Other than that, it's a complete subjective beauty contest. They have even lowered the criteria this year so teams don't have to have a winning record to be selected.

It wouldn't shock me if NDSU received an invite. But I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't, either.

Bison will get some tournament. Not the one they were looking for, but still a chance to get some good games in.

I thought the criteria was 16 teams, with only one team per conference.

If that's the case, I think these conferences are locks:

A-10
ACC
Big12
Big 10
Big East
CUSA
Horizon
MAC
Missouri Valley
Mountain West
Pac 12
Ohio Valley
SEC
WCC

Depending on the selection for the NCAA tourney, these are probable conferences.

Sun Belt
WAC

That leaves one spot amongst the rest of the conferences. I'm leaning towards the Big Sky sending the Montana/Weber St loser, even though their conference RPI is horrible. Maybe Stephen Austin out of the Southland if they get upset in their tourney as well, but I can't see any other conferences other than those two being above NDSU.

All that's assuming I'm correct on the NIT format.

[CaBisonFan]

As much as I understand the economics of having the Summit Tourney in Sioux Falls, it's a home game for SDSU and USD.

South Dakota kids get several chances to play there.

[NDSUstudent]

I thought the criteria was 16 teams, with only one team per conference.

If that's the case, I think these conferences are locks:

A-10
ACC
Big12
Big 10
Big East
CUSA
Horizon
MAC
Missouri Valley
Mountain West
Pac 12
Ohio Valley
SEC
WCC

Depending on the selection for the NCAA tourney, these are probable conferences.

Sun Belt
WAC

That leaves one spot amongst the rest of the conferences. I'm leaning towards the Big Sky sending the Montana/Weber St loser, even though their conference RPI is horrible. Maybe Stephen Austin out of the Southland if they get upset in their tourney as well, but I can't see any other conferences other than those two being above NDSU.

All that's assuming I'm correct on the NIT format.

The NIT is 32 teams and the only rule is you have to take the #1 seed from every conference if they are not in the big dance. CBI has basically no rules and CIT only takes mid-major teams with records over .500.

[CaBisonFan]

I like Saul. I'm not a big fan of his offense, and he has things that I wish he was better at, but so do 100% of the other coaches in Division 1.

The offense is flat. It doesn't attack from the top of the key. That gives away a lot of space. Easy to defend.

[NorthernBison]

NIT is 32 teams. They use league tie breakers for autobids so SDSU is the Summit Champion in the eyes of the selection committee. No autobid for the Summit.

[Bison03]

We are not going to the NIT... CBI probably. Guys played well tonight but lost to the better team/player. Saul drives me nuts, and I wish he would move on. Problem is that he hasn't done anything that could be described as more than mediocre, so who would have any reason to pursue him? My fear is that we will tolerate mediocrity for way too long... like we did with Inniger. You know when you have someone dynamic, and I just don't think Saul is. By the way, the NIT is consolation, not an honor.

So 24 wins is mediocre? Come on man. Do you remember the days when winning 15 in the NCC was considered a good year for Bison basketball. Look at this years team and complete them to like 2001 and tell me the players that are coming here now aren't significantly better. I understand you at upset we lost, everyone is. But to say that you want Saul to move on is nuts. You probably wanted Bohl fired after YSU last year or ISU this year.

[silkamilkamonico]

The offense is flat. It doesn't attack from the top of the key. That gives away a lot of space. Easy to defend.

Some coaches teach good offense and bad defense, some teach bad offense and good defense, others have first round nba talent to do everythi.g for them.

The best coach in the summit at western illinois has an almost identical philosophy and teaching on joth offense and defense as saul does. He does need to figure out how to get his offense easier shots.

La, Braun, Felt, Wright, Bjorklund. Can someone please explain to me why we struggle on offense?

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

[NDSUstudent]

I can't believe people are hating on Saul right now. This team has won 24 games and has an RPI of 69.....this was a good season. If we would have made the dance it would have been the best season in school history.

One of the best players in college basketball plays for SDSU and he had a great game, we tried numerous ways of defending him but it wasn't enough...he made some very difficult shots when his team needed them.

Now lets make some noise in whatever tournament we play in, get ground broken on the SHAC and cut down some nets next year. I will be ordering my tickets for SF next year soon and I would advise others to do so before the Rabbits take them all again.

[silkamilkamonico]

People can hate on saul all they want. Fact is, NDSU is not going to get a better coach to stick around.

Highly regarded coach with all things considered and has done a great job at ndsu.

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[heckler]

I think Bison fans are deeply divided about Saul and I believe that is one of the reasons the SHAC isn't built. Love him or hate him we need to get the SHAC done.

[Burnt_Secondary]

24 wins and an rpi number that doesn't mean anything. Ask average fan around the water cooler what their favorite Bison basketball memory is from the last 4 years. They won't have one. That's my issue, and as goes average fan goes 17 year old recrutes eventually.

We can agree on this, it is time to make some noise.

[heckler]

24 wins and an rpi number that doesn't mean anything. Ask average fan around the water cooler what their favorite Bison basketball memory is from the last 4 years. They won't have one. That's my issue, and as goes average fan goes 17 year old recrutes eventually.

We can agree on this, it is time to make some noise.

Next year is the year, but we also need to start being a consistent contender. If not next year, like Thunderdan said, we have a problem.

[HoopsBison]

24 wins and an rpi number that doesn't mean anything. Ask average fan around the water cooler what their favorite Bison basketball memory is from the last 4 years. They won't have one. That's my issue, and as goes average fan goes 17 year old recrutes eventually.

We can agree on this, it is time to make some noise.

Losing in the finals to this SDSU team isnt a failure. It was a toss up game played in a very favorable place for SDSU. I think we can agree on that.

[HoopsBison]

Next year is the year, but we also need to start being a consistent contender. If not next year, like Thunderdan said, we have a problem.

Big off-season for Korey Brown and Chris Kading we need them to take the next step as they are very important pieces to the puzzle moving beyond next year.

[NDSUstudent]

24 wins and an rpi number that doesn't mean anything. Ask average fan around the water cooler what their favorite Bison basketball memory is from the last 4 years. They won't have one. That's my issue, and as goes average fan goes 17 year old recrutes eventually.

We can agree on this, it is time to make some noise.

Yeah it is time we can agree on that. Next year has to be our year and I'm glad Taylor stepped up and said it.

[JohnnyExtacy]

24 wins and an rpi number that doesn't mean anything. Ask average fan around the water cooler what their favorite Bison basketball memory is from the last 4 years. They won't have one. That's my issue, and as goes average fan goes 17 year old recrutes eventually.

We can agree on this, it is time to make some noise.

Welcome to the world of mid-majors. You're basketball team doesn't have the luxury of playing second rate teams of division 1. What's your football highlights besides beating northern texas in football for the championship? A bunch of bottom dweller FBS competition?

You're basketball team looks good. They play defense at a high major level. I'm honestly not sure if you don't have any talent on offense other than Brawn, he's the only one that seems to want to do anything with the ball. The difference tonight was the south dakota team has a kid that's good enough for the NBA, and one of the best players in college basketball.

[silkamilkamonico]

24 wins and an rpi number that doesn't mean anything. Ask average fan around the water cooler what their favorite Bison basketball memory is from the last 4 years. They won't have one. That's my issue, and as goes average fan goes 17 year old recrutes eventually.

We can agree on this, it is time to make some noise.

What were your favorite Bison Basketball memories in terms of winning big games before the 2006 season? Did you say 0? So did every Bison Basketball fan going back....forever. If you think 1 recruiting class is all of a sudden going to come in and build a Gonzaga/Butler type program you're going to be waiting an awful long time. This program is continuing to take steps forward. We might even get the SHAC built sometime in the next 5 years.

There will be expectations next year. That's fun and shows growth. In terms of comparing us with SDSU, they have a great thing going...for now. Wolters single handily saved Nagy's job. I'll be curious to see what happens to them next year, because I'm not expecting much of competing from them. SDSU was also the program that wasn't supposed to be heads and shoulders better than us in this transition. Their basketball program was actually good in D2.

[KSBisonFan]

Big off-season for Korey Brown and Chris Kading we need them to take the next step as they are very important pieces to the puzzle moving beyond next year.

I agree and will add Tray and Bjork to this list. Both good players but will be studs with another offseason. Tray made major improvement this year but I think the worst thing that happened to him was making a few 3-pointers. Guy is usually the most athletic player on the court but parking outside and settling for 3's will make him inconsistent.
Bjorklund really needs coaching on breaking the double-team. He's going to see it every game next year and needs to develop a quick scoring move or the ability to find the open cutter/shooter.
Really disappointed in the loss but excited for our future and like this team. We'll have a great opportunity to win some postseason games in the coming weeks and I hope we make the most of it.

[NorthernBison]

La, Braun, Felt, Wright, Bjorklund. Can someone please explain to me why we struggle on offense?

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One big reason is that the ball moves too slow in our offense and we don't make the defense move side to side.

The other thing that I'll borrow from the football complaints is that we are too predictable. Every player in the World defaults to what they do well. We do it to the extreme.

-When LA takes the ball into the paint, he's looking to dish or kick it out rather than finishing.
-When Taylor slashes to the bucket, he going to the rim and you don't really have to worry about him passing it to a spot up shooter.
-Marshall gets the ball and he is going to take a moment to decide whether to kick it back out or make a move. I don't remember a quick drop step very often.
-Felt is a spot up shooter who moves well without the ball but he's not going to beat you off the bounce unless you close out full. Lay off a bit and then contest.
-Brown is going to give you a ball fake but he's not going to rise up and shoot the J so you have time to help on a driving Braun or LA without worrying that it will get kicked to Brown for a shot. You will have plenty of time to get back into position to guard him.
-Wright is the most unpredictable. Probably because he tends to rely on things that aren't his strengths. He will shoot the long J instead of beating you inside with his athleticism.

The funny thing is that all of the above sounds negative but it's really not. SDSU was a better team because of how well they play together and they had a point guard that made everybody better because he was unpredictable. I honestly couldn't predict if he was going to shoot the balll or create for somebody else.

This Bison group hans't really gelled yet as a unit. They haven't scratched the offensive potential that is there if they can operate together rather than as individuals.

[mnriverbison]

This season and team were a success. If there was an FCS for hoops we would be a title contender every year. I can't believe the portion of Bison Nation who lets wins over terrible and disinterested higher division football teams equate that to something like basketball. The two greatest "big show" games in Bison D1 history (any sport) remain the hoops win in Madison and the NCAA game going toe to toe with an excellent KU team. So this team fell a little short of our greatest success ever. That happens. Kudos to this squad and I can't freaking wait for next year. Next year they could make some noise in the dance.

[Snowgoose]

I agree with what Northern said especially about the movement of the ball. To me the ball really stopped during the tourney once it got into Braun's hands. It seemed to me that Braun rarely fed the post and when he did he was way late on the passes.

I have said this in numerous other threads but both Kading and Brown have to improve offensively during this offseason, especially Brown.

Our offense is basically dribble drive or post up Bjorkland (very similar to other college offenses). However, you make this extremely difficult if you have Brown out there who is not going to shoot or drive. His defensive man is just going to double off of him and sag into the lane to prevent the dribble drive. This was clearly what teams were doing the last part of the year as they had enough film of the Bison to understand that.

So it is extremely crucial that Brown develops some offensive game otherwise we are going to struggle mightily at times on the offensive end because teams are just going to replicate that again next season until Brown proves that he can make them pay.

[Hammerhead]

I do have one favorite basketball memory from the days of yore. It was watching Lance Berwald go 20 for 20 from the court and I think he was also 13 of 13 from the free throw line back in the early 80s.



What were your favorite Bison Basketball memories in terms of winning big games before the 2006 season? Did you say 0? So did every Bison Basketball fan going back....forever. If you think 1 recruiting class is all of a sudden going to come in and build a Gonzaga/Butler type program you're going to be waiting an awful long time. This program is continuing to take steps forward. We might even get the SHAC built sometime in the next 5 years.

[DePereBisonFan]

Road brought up an interesting point in a thread a few days back - that 2014 tickets in Sioux Falls are going quickly. It would be nice if we could take over Sioux Falls the way we took over Frisco. Home court seems to matter in College Basketball more than any other sport. I think a better Bison crowd would certainly have helped.

[Burnt_Secondary]

Road brought up an interesting point in a thread a few days back - that 2014 tickets in Sioux Falls are going quickly. It would be nice if we could take over Sioux Falls the way we took over Frisco. Home court seems to matter in College Basketball more than any other sport. I think a better Bison crowd would certainly have helped.

I'm not sold on that, just my opinion. I understand home court advantage but I don't think the crowd has much to do with it, not in basketball anyway. In my playing days, some of my bigger games in high school or even a couple in college I never heard the crowd once. Maybe during a free throw, but I never really noticed crowd noise.

Now home court being the team that didn't have to travel, is used to the facility, used to the depth behind the basket, yeah, that is an advantage, but crowd not so much. I actually hated playing in an empty gym more than a gym packed with opposing fans.

Now football, if you can make it too loud to communicate, then you've got something.

As much as I like Duke and like the Crazies, I don't know if they really affect the game. Just an opinion . . . discuss, discuss.

[Burnt_Secondary]

BTW, I'm not saying don't buy 2014 tickets . . . I'd really like to get down there next year.

[unbison]

I have 10 tickets for next year .... See you there!

[roadwarrior]

Road brought up an interesting point in a thread a few days back - that 2014 tickets in Sioux Falls are going quickly. It would be nice if we could take over Sioux Falls the way we took over Frisco. Home court seems to matter in College Basketball more than any other sport. I think a better Bison crowd would certainly have helped.

It was great to buy tickets at the window with NO ticketmaster fees. Sucks to have to buy them a whole year in advance though.

[ndsubison1]

We are not going to the NIT... CBI probably. Guys played well tonight but lost to the better team/player. Saul drives me nuts, and I wish he would move on. Problem is that he hasn't done anything that could be described as more than mediocre, so who would have any reason to pursue him? My fear is that we will tolerate mediocrity for way too long... like we did with Inniger. You know when you have someone dynamic, and I just don't think Saul is. By the way, the NIT is consolation, not an honor.

really? :facepalm:

[NDSUFan_Sav]

I have 10 tickets for next year .... See you there!

Let's pump it up, great trip this year with a sour ending. See ya there next year.

[bisonfan08]

As much as I understand the economics of having the Summit Tourney in Sioux Falls, it's a home game for SDSU and USD.

South Dakota kids get several chances to play there.

It doesn't have to be...Saul even said it in a quote in the paper. It's no secret when tickets go on sale, everybody has the same opportunity to buy the tickets left after the teams alotted amounts are distributed. The difference was SDSU fans believed they were going to win and bought tickets in advance, NDSU fans did not so by time we made the championship game everything was sold out. I actually lucked out on getting tickets for Monday and Tuesday as I was just planning on buying session to session. Not going to rely on that next year, will be buying my tickets soon.

[NorthernBison]

My expectations for Bison Basketball are pretty simple. Obviously, win more games than you lose. But, my minimum expectation is we should play in the semi-finals of the Summit Tournament EVERY YEAR. That's an expectation. If we don't make the Summit Tournament or lose on the first round, that goes in the books as a FAIL. After that, it's hard to put anything down as an expectation.

[td577]

I am looking for the silver lining here but getting into a tourney now with some chances to make a run will do a lot more for this club then a one and done in the dance. At this point, their philosophy better be to take advantage of every opportunity to improve for next year. More games is better.


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[Kujava23]

I am looking for the silver lining here but getting into a tourney now with some chances to make a run will do a lot more for this club then a one and done in the dance. At this point, their philosophy better be to take advantage of every opportunity to improve for next year. More games is better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly Right

[HerdBot]

Saul is a great coach. The BSA sucks and he can still recruit. He has built the offense around our talent level. What are we good at? Defending. We have length. Every guy can play great defense.

The problem is on offense, our players aren't balanced enough. He puts them in a position to play to their strengths. Felt - can shoot threes. Trayvon - Great dunks and up until this year that was about it, but he's since added the three. Bjorkland - inside but I don't think I've ever seen him take a midrange shot. Why? He's not good at it. Korey Brown - incredible defense but at this point his offensive game is that of freshman.

Braun is the most well rounded player. He can do it all.
LA - He's getting there but I still don't get the vibe he's at the level where he's going to take over a game.

This is an important offseason for us. The players need to expand their skills so Saul can coach better. If Trayvon can improve his offensive game he's going to be a beast. Korey Brown. Right now teams know he's not going to shoot. Bjorkland. You dump it inside and they quickly double him and keep an eye on Braun

Saul is a great coach. I will bitch slap anyone who disrespects him.

[mnriverbison]

Saul is a great coach. The BSA sucks and he can still recruit.

Saul is a great coach. I will bitch slap anyone who disrespects him.

With ya. From a national perspective, the hoops program is basically in the same place on the pecking order as the football team. People wouldn't dream of hating on Bohl if we lost a de facto road game to a great FCS team with an NFL-ready QB firing on all cylinders in the waning seconds. It's madness. And by the way, we're going to be really really good next year. Don't rock the boat. Trust in the long-term.

[BisonSD]

.......

This is an important offseason for us. The players need to expand their skills so Saul can coach better.
....m.

Actually, Saul needs to expand his coaching skills so players can play better.
Being good at recruiting is not the same as being a good coach.

[tony]

Actually, Saul needs to expand his coaching skills so players can play better.
Being good at recruiting is not the same as being a good coach.

2004-05: 16 wins (on a 90% D2/NAIA/D3 schedule)
2005-06: 16 wins (12-12 against DI competition, but Wisconsin!)
2006-07: 20 wins
2007-08: 16 wins
2008-09: 26 wins (NCAA berth)
2009-10: 11 wins
2010-11: 14 wins
2011-12: 17 wins
2012-13: 24 wins (and counting)

I like the direction we're going :)

[THEsocalledfan]

Good grief, the only thing more pathetic than meaningless bowl games is the NIT and other NON NCAA tourneys; they mean nothing other than giving you more practice time.

[GRAFTONBISON]

Good grief, the only thing more pathetic than meaningless bowl games is the NIT and other NON NCAA tourneys; they mean nothing other than giving you more practice time.

Practice time, which this team obviously could use to build for next season.

Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is.

[THEsocalledfan]

Practice time, which this team obviously could use to build for next season.

Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is.

Wish we could just pass on the games and use it for more practice time.

[GRAFTONBISON]

Wish we could just pass on the games and use it for more practice time.

Start a petition to make this happen. I know a couple football players that could help. :hide:

[NDSUstudent]

Getting any kind of postseason experience is good for this team, the games are just as important as the practice.

[herdmember]

It was great to buy tickets at the window with NO ticketmaster fees. Sucks to have to buy them a whole year in advance though.

Anyone buy extra tickets that would like to get rid of some? If I can find decent seats, I'd buy 2-5 of them today. NDSU fans need to step up for next year's tourney. SDSU fans got the tickets fair and square, they trusted their boys will be there and if not figured losing $25 per ticket wasn't a big deal, just like a lot of us did for Frisco.

[mnriverbison]

Good grief, the only thing more pathetic than meaningless bowl games is the NIT and other NON NCAA tourneys; they mean nothing other than giving you more practice time.

Why? It's fun to watch them play. At the very least the post season tourneys are on par with pre-season tourneys. Also fun. If you don't watch sports for fun, why do you watch?

[THEsocalledfan]

Why? It's fun to watch them play. At the very least the post season tourneys are on par with pre-season tourneys. Also fun. If you don't watch sports for fun, why do you watch?

Competition. And if you aren't playing for a reason, I have trouble caring. I even find my football interest dying off in down years. (2008-09 there were games I did not watch or listen too.....)

[NorthernBison]

Competition. And if you aren't playing for a reason, I have trouble caring. I even find my football interest dying off in down years. (2008-09 there were games I did not watch or listen too.....)

You're speaking from a fan's perspective. That's fine. One thing that is impossible to replicate is game situations. Every time these players step on the floor in a real game ,there is value. It's even more pronounced for this Bison team because virtually everybody will be back next year.

[roadwarrior]

Anyone buy extra tickets that would like to get rid of some? If I can find decent seats, I'd buy 2-5 of them today. NDSU fans need to step up for next year's tourney. SDSU fans got the tickets fair and square, they trusted their boys will be there and if not figured losing $25 per ticket wasn't a big deal, just like a lot of us did for Frisco.

Only full tournament packages are being sold now. $115 per seat

[unbison]

you could just go on ticket master and buy yourself some tickets my man

[herdmember]

Only full tournament packages are being sold now. $115 per seat

Understood, anyone buy any extra of those?

[TransAmBison]

Competition. And if you aren't playing for a reason, I have trouble caring. I even find my football interest dying off in down years. (2008-09 there were games I did not watch or listen too.....)
Hence your handle...

[herdmember]

you could just go on ticket master and buy yourself some tickets my man

Tried that, section A is the best I can find even for 2 tickets. Just seeing if anyone bought up a bunch and has better seats available for resale. Otherwise, I'll wait and pay up for the NDSU sessions next year.

[NDSUFan_Sav]

Wish we could just pass on the games and use it for more practice time.

Sorry but are you kidding me??? If we get to the NIT there are some decent competition in there that we don't see in our conference on daily basis. I'll take playing better competition and a chance to move on and get some more tournament experience. Practice is during the off-season where we can't play competition like this. Plus, Nate Zastrow isn't ready to end his college career yet that entire team felt terrible they didn't play better and get him to the NCAA tourney, its every college basketball players dream to play in the NCAA tourney.

[NDSUFan_Sav]

Competition. And if you aren't playing for a reason, I have trouble caring. I even find my football interest dying off in down years. (2008-09 there were games I did not watch or listen too.....)

*hacked* by SDBison

[XUBison]

Look, I know a lot of you are just starting to come out from behind your hockey nets to take a peak at D1 basketball, and that's okay. We're glad you're climbing aboard, so let me help you out with a few pointers... The absolute minimum expectation is making the NCAA Tourney. Beyond that, you strive to win a game, then you want to get to the Sweet 16, then the Final Four, then maybe win a National Championship. It is always preferable to get blown out in one of the NCAA "play-in" games than it is to win the NIT championship... I know that might be confusing, but that's just the way this works. The consolation tournaments exist only to provide a few extra home games (i.e. more moolah) for more schools, and to make you feel a little warm and fuzzy if your favorite team happens to win a few games. Lastly, coaches are not considered successful for consistently mediocre production in one of the least regarded conferences in D1 basketball. Don't worry, stick with it and you'll get the hang of it before long.

[ndsubison1]

Look, I know a lot of you are just starting to come out from behind your hockey nets to take a peak at D1 basketball, and that's okay. We're glad you're climbing aboard, so let me help you out with a few pointers... The absolute minimum expectation is making the NCAA Tourney. Beyond that, you strive to win a game, then you want to get to the Sweet 16, then the Final Four, then maybe win a National Championship. It is always preferable to get blown out in one of the NCAA "play-in" games than it is to win the NIT championship... I know that might be confusing, but that's just the way this works. The consolation tournaments exist only to provide a few extra home games (i.e. more moolah) for more schools, and to make you feel a little warm and fuzzy if your favorite team happens to win a few games. Lastly, coaches are not considered successful for consistently mediocre production in one of the least regarded conferences in D1 basketball. Don't worry, stick with it and you'll get the hang of it before long.

medicore? this season was mediocre huh?

[ndsubison1]

Good grief, the only thing more pathetic than meaningless bowl games is the NIT and other NON NCAA tourneys; they mean nothing other than giving you more practice time.

the NIT would be fun to be in. yeah yeah we didnt get into the dance but there will still be some good teams in it. chances are pretty slim, but we should get some home games in the CBI

[NorthernBison]

Look, I know a lot of you are just starting to come out from behind your hockey nets to take a peak at D1 basketball, and that's okay. We're glad you're climbing aboard, so let me help you out with a few pointers... The absolute minimum expectation is making the NCAA Tourney. Beyond that, you strive to win a game, then you want to get to the Sweet 16, then the Final Four, then maybe win a National Championship. It is always preferable to get blown out in one of the NCAA "play-in" games than it is to win the NIT championship... I know that might be confusing, but that's just the way this works. The consolation tournaments exist only to provide a few extra home games (i.e. more moolah) for more schools, and to make you feel a little warm and fuzzy if your favorite team happens to win a few games. Lastly, coaches are not considered successful for consistently mediocre production in one of the least regarded conferences in D1 basketball. Don't worry, stick with it and you'll get the hang of it before long.

I wish I could say nice try. Being a good Troll requires a certain degree of subtlety. Don't worry, stick with it and you'll get the hang of it before long.

[unbison]

This season was successful. Any year we are in the conference championship game we are doing well! We will get some
Post season play in weather it be nit or cbi, know can know at this time. Sdsu was built for this year. We are built for next year, and years to come!
Lets go bison!

[KSBisonFan]

I just hope Saul's got the guys practicing in anticipation of an invite......last season everyone shut it down and we had to scramble for our post-season game. Does anyone know if they guys are still practicing???

[semobison]

Look, I know a lot of you are just starting to come out from behind your hockey nets to take a peak at D1 basketball, and that's okay. We're glad you're climbing aboard, so let me help you out with a few pointers... The absolute minimum expectation is making the NCAA Tourney. Beyond that, you strive to win a game, then you want to get to the Sweet 16, then the Final Four, then maybe win a National Championship. It is always preferable to get blown out in one of the NCAA "play-in" games than it is to win the NIT championship... I know that might be confusing, but that's just the way this works. The consolation tournaments exist only to provide a few extra home games (i.e. more moolah) for more schools, and to make you feel a little warm and fuzzy if your favorite team happens to win a few games. Lastly, coaches are not considered successful for consistently mediocre production in one of the least regarded conferences in D1 basketball. Don't worry, stick with it and you'll get the hang of it before long.

Lets get real! We are a mid major program that does not have a great basketball tradition. Making the NCAA tourney on average every 3 or 4 years would be about as good as it gets and an NIT invite would be a damn good year. High expectations are great but with our conference and our program winning an NCAA tournament game may be a once in a lifetime occurence.

[silkamilkamonico]

Look, I know a lot of you are just starting to come out from behind your hockey nets to take a peak at D1 basketball, and that's okay. We're glad you're climbing aboard, so let me help you out with a few pointers... The absolute minimum expectation is making the NCAA Tourney. Beyond that, you strive to win a game, then you want to get to the Sweet 16, then the Final Four, then maybe win a National Championship. It is always preferable to get blown out in one of the NCAA "play-in" games than it is to win the NIT championship... I know that might be confusing, but that's just the way this works. The consolation tournaments exist only to provide a few extra home games (i.e. more moolah) for more schools, and to make you feel a little warm and fuzzy if your favorite team happens to win a few games. Lastly, coaches are not considered successful for consistently mediocre production in one of the least regarded conferences in D1 basketball. Don't worry, stick with it and you'll get the hang of it before long.

Try telling that to UNC, who hangs their NIT championship banners and places the trophy in the case right net to their national championship.

And if you've ever actually followed along with NDSU basketball, you'd know that any kind of tournament chance to succeed is a good one after the season, in the progression to something bigger and better.

[td577]

I just hope Saul's got the guys practicing in anticipation of an invite......last season everyone shut it down and we had to scramble for our post-season game. Does anyone know if they guys are still practicing???

I don't know what anyone can officially do until they get an invite. I have to think the season goes until the last teams play regardless if your team is not one of them. If they are not using that time for organized practices, I would be very disappointed. That can extend the 20 hours a week for almost another month. It would be a great time to work on individual goals with a structured environment to walk through want you want them to do.


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[Burnt_Secondary]

damn it, Damn It, DAMN IT!!!!!!

[870XPRS]

OK, that's that. Everyone here knows my feelings on Saul and what I accept as a successful season.

Here is an addition for me. So far, didn't win the Summit tournament and no signature wins. So far I'm not pleased.

However, if we are as good as advertised, if we make a lesser tournament, even if it is the NIT. We need to make a run. These guys need to experience some big wins before next year. If they do win a game or two (or more) we had a successful season and I'll be off Sauls back for a year or two. (Which is pretty good for me.)

Nothing to hang our head about tonight though. I'm just turning the page.

Couple quick questions

1) What do you accept as a successful season? (I'm assuming not a runner up and a 20+ win season)

2) Where was this so called "good as advertised" happening?

3) Explain why you are on Sauls back?

Sincerely yours

[870XPRS]

It's to late to preface that comment, but I read your 1 post.

[870XPRS]

One big reason is that the ball moves too slow in our offense and we don't make the defense move side to side.

The other thing that I'll borrow from the football complaints is that we are too predictable. Every player in the World defaults to what they do well. We do it to the extreme.

-When LA takes the ball into the paint, he's looking to dish or kick it out rather than finishing.
-When Taylor slashes to the bucket, he going to the rim and you don't really have to worry about him passing it to a spot up shooter.
-Marshall gets the ball and he is going to take a moment to decide whether to kick it back out or make a move. I don't remember a quick drop step very often.
-Felt is a spot up shooter who moves well without the ball but he's not going to beat you off the bounce unless you close out full. Lay off a bit and then contest.
-Brown is going to give you a ball fake but he's not going to rise up and shoot the J so you have time to help on a driving Braun or LA without worrying that it will get kicked to Brown for a shot. You will have plenty of time to get back into position to guard him.
-Wright is the most unpredictable. Probably because he tends to rely on things that aren't his strengths. He will shoot the long J instead of beating you inside with his athleticism.

The funny thing is that all of the above sounds negative but it's really not. SDSU was a better team because of how well they play together and they had a point guard that made everybody better because he was unpredictable. I honestly couldn't predict if he was going to shoot the balll or create for somebody else.

This Bison group hans't really gelled yet as a unit. They haven't scratched the offensive potential that is there if they can operate together rather than as individuals.

Now i read it all....this guy has it down. Don't get discouraged, the team is still pretty damn good. This is just how it is. Another year of development, and I expect big things next year to; but don't get bent out of shape if SU has a down year from time to time. Kentucky didn't make the tournament this year and got bounced by Robert Morris. DI hoops is a differenet animal.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Now i read it all....this guy has it down. Don't get discouraged, the team is still pretty damn good. This is just how it is. Another year of development, and I expect big things next year to; but don't get bent out of shape if SU has a down year from time to time. Kentucky didn't make the tournament this year and got bounced by Robert Morris. DI hoops is a differenet animal.

The problem is that NDSU has had quite a few down years in a row. This year was a decent year, but nothing that will be talked about in the future. Before this we have had too many years of not even wining a game in the Summit tourney. The result of this prior lack of performance had been a fanbase that is largely apathetic and game attendance that is about D2 level. The excitement generated by Woodside and Co. going to the Dance is gone. I hope this year was the start of turning that around. But.......we got a lot more turning to do.

[SDbison]

The problem is that NDSU has had quite a few down years in a row. This year was a decent year, but nothing that will be talked about in the future. Before this we have had too many years of not even wining a game in the Summit tourney. The result of this prior lack of performance had been a fanbase that is largely apathetic and game attendance that is about D2 level. The excitement generated by Woodside and Co. going to the Dance is gone. I hope this year was the start of turning that around. But.......we got a lot more turning to do. All truth Wyo! Add to that the crappy NAIA basketball facility at NDSU and its understandable Bison basketball is going nowhere.

[NorthernBison]

All truth Wyo! Add to that the crappy NAIA basketball facility at NDSU and its understandable Bison basketball is going nowhere.

You're probably correct. The fundraising needed is FAR away from what is necessary to get the necessary changes made in the facility. I've seen the push being made to get donations flowing again. I'm pretty sure that there's a good reason for it and it's not because we are inches away from getting there. It's because we keep getting farther away.

In case you don't understandf how things work in ND, the original number needed was just a target. As construction cost estimates keep going up, approval to build is slipping away. NDSU will not be allowed to start unless there is money to get it done. Bismarck will not allow it. We used up our benefit of the doubt long ago. Too bad really that our fans don't value the program enough.

[SDbison]

You're probably correct. The fundraising needed is FAR away from what is necessary to get the necessary changes made in the facility. I've seen the push being made to get donations flowing again. I'm pretty sure that there's a good reason for it and it's not because we are inches away from getting there. It's because we keep getting farther away.

In case you don't understandf how things work in ND, the original number needed was just a target. As construction cost estimates keep going up, approval to build is slipping away. NDSU will not be allowed to start unless there is money to get it done. Bismarck will not allow it. We used up our benefit of the doubt long ago. Too bad really that our fans don't value the program enough. Too bad ND which is oozing millions in excess revenue every day can't figure out that private businesses rarely if ever will wait to have 100% cash secured before building........they would lose out on opportunities all the time. Also, not contributing anything to improve an outdated building they, the state, paid 30% of total cost nearly 50 years ago is a joke. Sorry, I did what I could going to 9 home football games last year plus traveling to the national championship (for two months of that time I was laid off from my job). Also, my new job pays $5000 less a year and I still have kept current with my team makers dues. Mens' basketball doesn't have the fan experience going for it to justify traveling 250 miles one way, let alone 50 miles (crappy facility, can't win big games, boring offense).

[NorthernBison]

Too bad ND which is oozing millions in excess revenue every day can't figure out that private businesses rarely if ever will wait to have 100% cash secured before building........they would lose out on opportunities all the time. Also, not contributing anything to improve an outdated building they, the state, paid 30% of total cost nearly 50 years ago is a joke. Sorry, I did what I could going to 9 home football games last year plus traveling to the national championship (for two months of that time I was laid off from my job). Also, my new job pays $5000 less a year and I still have kept current with my team makers dues. Mens' basketball doesn't have the fan experience going for it to justify traveling 250 miles one way, let alone 50 miles (crappy facility, can't win big games, boring offense).

Going to basketball games is a non-starter for me too. My trip is similar 200 miles each way and a kid playing High School ball means conflicts for most home dates.

I've been a Team Maker for 20 years and a football season ticket holder for 25. I realize that all of that does ALMOST NOTHING with regard to getting the SHAC done. I didn't go to Frisco because we had a local basketball game and instead made a SHAC contribution. It's probably a spit in the ocean but at least I feel like I did something.

There isn't really anything we can do to get the SHAC done other than contribute directly to the project. The State isn't going to give us money. Ultimately, the fate of the program is in the hands and checkbooks of the fans. It's really a pretty simple situation.

[Snowgoose]

The problem that NDSU is not realizing or it sure doesnt seem like they are, but the size (midmajor) that we are are basketball driven not football driven conferences. If we don't improve our BB ASAP all our other sports could suffer immensely as our conference could get blown up all for BB. We need to focus all our efforts on BB for a short time to save all sports. Football will sustain itself just fine for now.

[Snowgoose]

Let me clarify but I thought we had a good season, I meant facilities and our once proud women's program which doesn't even exist anymore. Man remember when the women's program would get 4 to 6 thousand for big games at the BSA. Those games were entertaining and we can get back there on the men's and womens side as well with some focus on the facility and marketing of the important program/sport.

[Burnt_Secondary]

Couple quick questions

1) What do you accept as a successful season? (I'm assuming not a runner up and a 20+ win season)

2) Where was this so called "good as advertised" happening?

3) Explain why you are on Sauls back?

Sincerely yours

Just to clarify . . .

All of these questions were answered before . . .
1. 20 wins means nothing . . . where was our at large? Never going to happen in the Summit so who the hell cares how many wins you have against medium to bad teams. Our RPI was high because we lost to good teams. How about we beat good teams? No one is going to talk about this team by the water cooler until they have a reason to.

Once again a successful season means. Win the summit tournament. Beat a team from a power conference. If you don't get into the NCAA tournament and get into a lesser tournament win some games. I don't care if it's the NIT and you are facing tough teams (by our standards) you have to win. This team is full of seniors next year that haven't won a signifacant game. Makes it harder to do when the presure is on next year in a tournament.

2. Not sure what you mean but Saul over sold this team the last couple of years in the F/M media. The community is glancing over to NDSU and looking at the basketball team with a yawn at best. Not the players fault, Saul just over reached when trying to hype up this team. Everyone looked last year to see a swan song of a second half of the season. Now the whole city seems to be taking a wait and see approach.

3. I'm down on Saul because he . . . has never had a signature win (2009 was the players . . . not giving him credit for that one.). This team hasn't beaten a team they shouldn't have since he came in. I don't hate the man but I'm not going to be impressed with win total and RPI which means absolutly nothing in the Summit.

[HoopsBison]

Just to clarify . . .

All of these questions were answered before . . .
1. 20 wins means nothing . . . where was our at large? Never going to happen in the Summit so who the hell cares how many wins you have against medium to bad teams. Our RPI was high because we lost to good teams. How about we beat good teams? No one is going to talk about this team by the water cooler until they have a reason to.

Once again a successful season means. Win the summit tournament. Beat a team from a power conference. If you don't get into the NCAA tournament and get into a lesser tournament win some games. I don't care if it's the NIT and you are facing tough teams (by our standards) you have to win. This team is full of seniors next year that haven't won a signifacant game. Makes it harder to do when the presure is on next year in a tournament.

2. Not sure what you mean but Saul over sold this team the last couple of years in the F/M media. The community is glancing over to NDSU and looking at the basketball team with a yawn at best. Not the players fault, Saul just over reached when trying to hype up this team. Everyone looked last year to see a swan song of a second half of the season. Now the whole city seems to be taking a wait and see approach.

3. I'm down on Saul because he . . . has never had a signature win (2009 was the players . . . not giving him credit for that one.). This team hasn't beaten a team they shouldn't have since he came in. I don't hate the man but I'm not going to be impressed with win total and RPI which means absolutly nothing in the Summit.

The joys of being the coach, he led the team to the promise land with all the pressure in the world. Would have been a total disaster had we not danced that year. The same team was 16-12 the season before...clearly no coaching was done in 2009...Haha

[Burnt_Secondary]

The joys of being the coach, he led the team to the promise land with all the pressure in the world. Would have been a total disaster had we not danced that year. The same team was 16-12 the season before...clearly no coaching was done in 2009...Haha

If he had done anything after 2009 I might be willing to give him credit. He has not. Hit the criteria that I have layed out and I'll be willing to give him the nod for 2009. The facts remain he has not.

Look I'm not trying to pick fights here but win something that matters, that is all I'm asking! I'm even giving mutiple things that matter and none of them have been met.

[HoopsBison]

If he had done anything after 2009 I might be willing to give him credit. He has not. Hit the criteria that I have layed out and I'll be willing to give him the nod for 2009. The facts remain he has not.

Look I'm not trying to pick fights here but win something that matters, that is all I'm asking! I'm even giving mutiple things that matter and none of them have been met.

Thats fine you have your right to your opinion. My opinion is Saul was the head coach in 2009 and took us to the dance with an incredible amount of pressure and expectations. I understand we had some pretty damn good players but they improved a good deal from their junior to senior year, there some coaching being done there.

At that time we were all in as a program with that team and group of seniors. Im not sure what you were expecting the following two years after 2009. It was rebuild mode for us. New coach with transition recruits and losing three of the best ever to wear the Bison uniform. Now the last two years are fair game to judge Saul. Last year we completely fell apart in the second half of the season...a disappointment if you ask me. This year was solid, did some really nice things and gained confidence. Have things we need to work on for next year if we are going to live up to expectations. Going to be fun to see what happens.

[Burnt_Secondary]

Thats fine you have your right to your opinion. My opinion is Saul was the head coach in 2009 and took us to the dance with an incredible amount of pressure and expectations. I understand we had some pretty damn good players but they improved a good deal from their junior to senior year, there some coaching being done there.

At that time we were all in as a program with that team and group of seniors. Im not sure what you were expecting the following two years after 2009. It was rebuild mode for us. New coach with transition recruits and losing three of the best ever to wear the Bison uniform. Now the last two years are fair game to judge Saul. Last year we completely fell apart in the second half of the season...a disappointment if you ask me. This year was solid, did some really nice things and gained confidence. Have things we need to work on for next year if we are going to live up to expectations. Going to be fun to see what happens.

Who did we beat that impressed you?

[HoopsBison]

Who did we beat that impressed you?

I agree we didnt have a win that really stands out, really only had two chances to get that signature win and didnt happen. I said that we had solid season. 24-10 is solid to me, did well in Non conference play, did okay in conference play, would have liked to gotten at least second but an injury to our best player tripped us up a bit. Were able to win Sioux Falls, something we have struggled with and made it to the finals. Sucks because I thought we could dance and came up short against SDSU. Team knows where they have to improve to meet next year expectations, lets see if they can get it done.

There will be plenty of chances to get that signature win next season!

[Burnt_Secondary]

^^^^^ Yeah, next year we have to win the Summit, nothing else will do. I was really wanting a signature win this year. I thought it would really help these Juniors get some confidence.

I think a tougher schedule would have been a good thing this year. But as I mentioned in another thread, schedules are tricky. I don't blame Saul for that. Make it too tough and you hurt your team, especially with how we finished last year.

I think I'm leaning moving forward to make it more of an Oakland type schedule. Make it brutal and let your guys learn.

[HoopsBison]

^^^^^ Yeah, next year we have to win the Summit, nothing else will do. I was really wanting a signature win this year. I thought it would really help these Juniors get some confidence.

I think a tougher schedule would have been a good thing this year. But as I mentioned in another thread, schedules are tricky. I don't blame Saul for that. Make it too tough and you hurt your team, especially with how we finished last year.

I think I'm leaning moving forward to make it more of an Oakland type schedule. Make it brutal and let your guys learn.

Wont disagree with much of this but add our location doesnt do us any favors when it comes to scheduling.