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View Full Version : Why did two golf scores get scratched?



GPSIT
03-12-2013, 11:29 PM
Anyone know what happened in women's golf?

GPSIT
03-12-2013, 11:37 PM
knutsons and Stoandts scores were scratched for first round.

imabison
03-12-2013, 11:40 PM
knutsons and Stoandts scores were scratched for first round.

Numerous golf rules can get you disqualified. I would guess the most common reason is to sign a
score card with the wrong score. For 2 to get qualified, thats strange.

Could they have mixed up their score cards and both signed the others card.
as good a reason as any I guess.

Another possibility they were paired together and missed their tee time...

imabison
03-13-2013, 01:59 AM
New e mail says administrative error in the first round caused the disqualification of 2 players

NorthernBison
03-13-2013, 02:31 AM
Story I read says TWO signatures required. Cards had only one signature.

imabison
03-13-2013, 03:10 AM
Story I read says TWO signatures required. Cards had only one signature.

Thanks. Score card rules. Bet that never happens again

1998braves64
03-13-2013, 03:20 AM
congrats to amy tying the NCAA record for wins...

tony
03-13-2013, 03:30 AM
congrats to amy tying the NCAA record for wins...

Yeah, that may deserve it's own thread. You'd think that should be the headline over the scratchiness... unless we're turning into ForumComm. :)

I'll start a thread for that.

NorthernBison
03-13-2013, 03:35 AM
congrats to amy tying the NCAA record for wins...

Record set by Julie Inkster. That's big.

GPSIT
03-13-2013, 03:54 AM
I wasn't pointing any fingers or being critical.. I was simply wondering what happened. Thanks bisonville.

NorthernBison
03-13-2013, 04:05 AM
I wasn't pointing any fingers or being critical.. I was simply wondering what happened. Thanks bisonville.

Hey, no problem. I'm not 100% sure what the NCAA rules are. Every tournament I've played in requires the player to sign their card. Apparently this required somebody else to sign too?

tony
03-13-2013, 04:12 AM
I wasn't pointing any fingers or being critical.. I was simply wondering what happened. Thanks bisonville.

I know you weren't - I like taking a shot at ForumComm every once in a while.

You got me curious as to what happened too.

DORMIE
04-15-2013, 06:25 PM
It is the player's responsibility to know the rules, aka, Tiger playing from the wrong place and signing scorecard w/o the penalty and then getting bailed out by the committee. A score card must be returned with 2 scores, the player and the marker. This obviously was not done. My problem with this is, what were the people in the scoring tent doing. They should not let the players leave the scoring area without 2 scores. Botton line, the responsibility belongs to the player.

bisonaudit
04-15-2013, 06:33 PM
It is the player's responsibility to know the rules, aka, Tiger playing from the wrong place and signing scorecard w/o the penalty and then getting bailed out by the committee. A score card must be returned with 2 scores, the player and the marker. This obviously was not done. My problem with this is, what were the people in the scoring tent doing. They should not let the players leave the scoring area without 2 scores. Botton line, the responsibility belongs to the player.

If the committee would have done their job properly he would have been assessed a 2 stroke penalty and that would have been the end of it. If there's any controversy it's a rules committee controversy. It only looks like a Tiger controversy because the media (and reality TV America) loves a Tiger controversy.

NorthernBison
04-15-2013, 06:45 PM
If the committee would have done their job properly he would have been assessed a 2 stroke penalty and that would have been the end of it. If there's any controversy it's a rules committee controversy. It only looks like a Tiger controversy because the media (and reality TV America) loves a Tiger controversy.

Yeah, any penalty should have been decided BEFORE he even got to the scoring room. DQ should never have been in question.

Actually, if Tiger had not said in his interview that he moved back two yards, he probably wouldn't have been penalized at all. Nobody knows what "as near as possible" means. How close would anybody drop the ball? Understanding that, if it rolls into the previous divot, you have to play it.

BisonPride72
04-15-2013, 07:45 PM
Yeah, any penalty should have been decided BEFORE he even got to the scoring room. DQ should never have been in question.

Actually, if Tiger had not said in his interview that he moved back two yards, he probably wouldn't have been penalized at all. Nobody knows what "as near as possible" means. How close would anybody drop the ball? Understanding that, if it rolls into the previous divot, you have to play it.

This is how close he was to the spot of his first shot. How the committee saw this and still gave a penalty is beyond me. I can't believe Tiger didn't go all Happy Gilmore on that flagstick and throw the flag into the water after his ball.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--photos-show-tiger-woods-may-not-have-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/CxyqmBgepTu7.Fh4YTtBCg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYxMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2013-04-14/72775f74-1025-40de-831f-bc969dc59af3_tiger-shots-side-by-side.jpg

bisonaudit
04-15-2013, 08:02 PM
This is how close he was to the spot of his first shot. How the committee saw this and still gave a penalty is beyond me. I can't believe Tiger didn't go all Happy Gilmore on that flagstick and throw the flag into the water after his ball.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golf--photos-show-tiger-woods-may-not-have-deserved-a-two-stroke-penalty-204353354.html

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/CxyqmBgepTu7.Fh4YTtBCg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYxMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2013-04-14/72775f74-1025-40de-831f-bc969dc59af3_tiger-shots-side-by-side.jpg

Pretty sure that the committee didn't see that until after their second ruling as it didn't appear anywhere until late Sunday from what I understand. Tiger has seen it sense and he continues to say that his drop was illegal and that the penalty was properly assessed.

56BISON73
04-15-2013, 09:24 PM
What gets me is ther rule committee ruled there was no violation. Then the next day they ruled they were wrong after talking to tiger. WTF? They should have just went with their original ruling and bit the bullet or they never should have ruled in the first place until all information was available. How can they change their ruling after the fact?

bisonaudit
04-15-2013, 09:35 PM
What gets me is ther rule committee ruled there was no violation. Then the next day they ruled they were wrong after talking to tiger. WTF? They should have just went with their original ruling and bit the bullet or they never should have ruled in the first place until all information was available. How can they change their ruling after the fact?

Presumably because, after the initial ruling, Tiger affirmatively said that he did something (deliberately dropped behind where the original shot was played from) that they didn't see during their initial review. In light of this new information they revisited their decision. The mistake was in not talking with the player before they made their initial determination.

NorthernBison
04-15-2013, 09:51 PM
What gets me is ther rule committee ruled there was no violation. Then the next day they ruled they were wrong after talking to tiger. WTF? They should have just went with their original ruling and bit the bullet or they never should have ruled in the first place until all information was available. How can they change their ruling after the fact?

Tiger said in his interview on CBS that he "moved back two yards". Clearly, he wasn't aware that he didn't have that option. That interview is what really made this blow up.

He had 3 options and I might not say this exactly correct and anybody can feel free to correct it if it factually wrong.

1. Hit from the designated drop area.
2. Hit anywhere along a line from the pin to the last point where the ball crossed the margin of the hazard no cloer to the hole. (Coincidently this line went through the drop area or very close to it)
3. Drop and hit from "as near as possible" to the previous spot.

He chose #3 but basically admitted that he didn't drop "as near as possible".

If they rules officials had asked him about that BEFORE he went to the scoring area, they would have told him that he was subject to a two stroke penalty. That is something he has not disagreed with. In that case, there never would have been the question of signing an incorrect card.

One of the reasons the HD TV rule was enacted was to be more fair to golfers like Tiger who have EVERY shot and every move televised. Unlike other golfers who escape the eyes of the public.

DORMIE
04-16-2013, 01:56 AM
It is the players responsibility to know the rules. I can't believe that how long Tiger has been playing the game and also how long that his caddie has been at it that they didn't realize that he was playing from a wrong place. Usually a walking rules official (USGA, and I've had that opportunitity many times) will solve the problem for you before you skrew up. The committee didn't see a problem from the tape, however he admitted that he played back for an advatange so he wouldn't have to dial down, thus playing from a wrong place. After he realized on Saturday that had not played within the rules, I don't care about the committee, he should have withdrawn.

imabison
04-16-2013, 02:06 AM
It is the players responsibility to know the rules. I can't believe that how long Tiger has been playing the game and also how long that his caddie has been at it that they didn't realize that he was playing from a wrong place. Usually a walking rules official (USGA, and I've had that opportunitity many times) will solve the problem for you before you skrew up. The committee didn't see a problem from the tape, however he admitted that he played back for an advatange so he wouldn't have to dial down, thus playing from a wrong place. After he realized on Saturday that had not played within the rules, I don't care about the committee, he should have withdrawn.I would be thinking that next year. The masters will probably go with officials on the course. I also think that Tiger willingly, knowingly broke the rules and should have withdrawn.

bisonaudit
04-16-2013, 02:35 AM
I also think that Tiger willingly, knowingly broke the rules and should have withdrawn.

That strikes me as very unlikely. He knew he was on camera. He knows crazy golf nuts live to call CBS and report rules infractions. And if he were trying to intentionally cheat he wouldn't have described the drop the way that he did after the round, he would have lied about it.

DORMIE
04-16-2013, 02:55 AM
I don't believe that Tiger intentionally broke the rules. With hitting the flagstick, he was obviously upset and probably thought he was playing under the option to play it back in the line of flight. He would not intentionally break a rule.

IndyBison
04-16-2013, 11:19 AM
It is the players responsibility to know the rules. I can't believe that how long Tiger has been playing the game and also how long that his caddie has been at it that they didn't realize that he was playing from a wrong place. Usually a walking rules official (USGA, and I've had that opportunitity many times) will solve the problem for you before you skrew up. The committee didn't see a problem from the tape, however he admitted that he played back for an advatange so he wouldn't have to dial down, thus playing from a wrong place. After he realized on Saturday that had not played within the rules, I don't care about the committee, he should have withdrawn.

I am not surprised he didn't fully know the rules. Most players and coaches don't fully know the rules in the sports they play.

NorthernBison
04-16-2013, 11:38 AM
I am not surprised he didn't fully know the rules. Most players and coaches don't fully know the rules in the sports they play.

One of the golf magazines did a story several years ago. They asked PGA tour players to complete voluntary rules test. They got enough takers to get a representative sample. Only about 10% passed if my memory is correct. The conclusion was that even the players weren't FULLY aware of the rules.

IndyBison
04-16-2013, 12:46 PM
One of the golf magazines did a story several years ago. They asked PGA tour players to complete voluntary rules test. They got enough takers to get a representative sample. Only about 10% passed if my memory is correct. The conclusion was that even the players weren't FULLY aware of the rules.

Because they self-enforce a lot of rules golfers are probably better than most athletes. With football most people get their rules knowledge from TV commentators and they don't know the rules either. Everyone knows the basics. In many sports there are also different rules at the various levels. Many are similar but people don't know which are different.

Bison"FANatic"
04-16-2013, 01:55 PM
Because they self-enforce a lot of rules golfers are probably better than most athletes. With football most people get their rules knowledge from TV commentators and they don't know the rules either. Everyone knows the basics. In many sports there are also different rules at the various levels. Many are similar but people don't know which are different.

One of the best additions over the last few years to broadcasts has been the commentators having access to a official that they can call in to comment on plays in question. It is nice to have it explained from someone knowledgeable.

bisonaudit
04-16-2013, 03:26 PM
I am not surprised he didn't fully know the rules. Most players and coaches don't fully know the rules in the sports they play.

So true. No precisely a rules issue but just yesterday Denard Span was totally flabbergasted when he was double-switched out of a game for the first time in his life. He thought the manager yanked him because he screwed up or didn't hustle or something but he couldn't figure out what the 'offense' was. Turned out it was just playing in the National League.

imabison
04-16-2013, 04:33 PM
I don't believe that Tiger intentionally broke the rules. With hitting the flagstick, he was obviously upset and probably thought he was playing under the option to play it back in the line of flight. He would not intentionally break a rule.

My point about intentional is when he said he moved farther back to improve his chances of hitting the distance he wanted. If he was unaware of the rule then it of course would not be
"intentional"