FCS Playoffs vs Bowl Games TV Ratings

[Professor Chaos]

A GSU fan posted this on AGS and I thought it would be of interest to many here as well. It's more of an indictment of ESPN's piss poor promotion of the FCS playoffs than anything if you ask me. But the FCS title game did stack up favorably against some of the other crap bowls they relegated to ESPN2.

http://i.imgur.com/2UflS.jpg

[MNLonghorn10]

Lol. Oh well. I had fun.

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[BisonTeacher]

Man...If I see the Fight Hunger Bowl getting a replay......:fight:

[Bison 4 Life]

Lol. Oh well. I had fun.

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This..

I really don't know what the solution is or why we need to worry about it. The stadium sold out and there are Bison flags hanging in bars in Frisco/Plano. I think ESPN does a shit job but I'm not sure who can do better.

[IBleedYellow]

Don't care. Back 2 Back.

[SafeTeeJ]

I think the demographics of where the teams are from and what day of the week they are on play more in viewer ship than how good a game (product) is presented.
Do you want to play the FCS championship game on the weeknight? If you have no ties to NDSU, SHSU or FCS football are you going to watch the game on mid day Saturday? I'm sure there are millions of guys beaten down with Honeydo's and too buried to catch the game when it was on. :biggrin:

I was at the game, and I had a blast all weekend! I don't know if more advertising on ESPN's part would have attracted more viewers.

[tony]

Lol. Oh well. I had fun.



Not really good for comparison purposes since whatever is on ESPN will automatically get double the ratings of anything on ESPN2.

ESPN2 Only:

Mississippi State v Northwestern on New Years Day: 2.2 million viewers
NDSU v SHSU (Saturday): 1.1 million
Arizona State v Navy (Saturday): 1 million
NDSU v Georgia Southern (Friday): 974k
SHSU v Montana State (Friday): 783k
D2 National Championship (Saturday): 424k

But I'm with MNLongHorn - I don't follow NDSU because of what people in New Jersey or California watch on TV.

[CaBisonFan]

So someone tunes in to check out the FCS championship...and there's Pitt playing a boring BB game. Gone

[IndyBison]

I think the relevance of this data is a bean counter at ESPN is going to look at this and not be in a huge rush to find more ways to get the game re-broadcast. That doesn't explain the D3 game getting rebroadcast either but there must have been extenuating circumstances (i.e. more holes to fill after the D3 game than the FCS game, different contract obligations). More advertising/promotion may help. I would love to see it rebroadcast or promoted more but the cost-benefit for ESPN probably isn't there. Just be thankful we are worried about this. We could be Indiana State or UND. They've long forgotten the football season.

[CaBisonFan]

I think the relevance of this data is a bean counter at ESPN is going to look at this and not be in a huge rush to find more ways to get the game re-broadcast. That doesn't explain the D3 game getting rebroadcast either but there must have been extenuating circumstances (i.e. more holes to fill after the D3 game than the FCS game, different contract obligations). More advertising/promotion may help. I would love to see it rebroadcast or promoted more but the cost-benefit for ESPN probably isn't there. Just be thankful we are worried about this. We could be Indiana State or UND. They've long forgotten the football season.

The numbers were pretty clear before now. An effort to get it replayed is worth a few emails.

[BisonTeacher]

The real question is ...What were the ratings of the basketball game that was before the FCS championship?

[EndZoneQB]

So someone tunes in to check out the FCS championship...and there's Pitt playing a boring BB game. Gone

LOL, you have a quite skewed view of the world. You've got it backwards. They tuned in to watch Pitt play, game ends, gone. It's FCS football man, get over it.

[CaBisonFan]

LOL, you have a quite skewed view of the world. You've got it backwards. They tuned in to watch Pitt play, game ends, gone. It's FCS football man, get over it.

Casual football fan sees the FCS Championship game on the menu...tunes in...sees a boring basketball game...gone.

You're so smart.

[Trumpster]

Casual football fan sees the FCS Championship game on the menu...tunes in...sees a boring basketball game...gone.

Exactally, yesterday one of my coworkers comes up to me, says he couldn't find the game anywhere and he wanted to watch it because I'd be there and he likes football. He knew it was supposed to be on at noon because I told him before I left, we didn't know that it would actually be on 12:17.

[heffray]

Casual football fan sees the FCS Championship game on the menu...tunes in...sees a boring basketball game...gone.

You're so smart.

I agree with you in principle, CA, but the first hour of our game to a CASUAL FOOTBALL FAN (not an NDSU nut) was pretty boring...

[aces1180]

I agree with you in principle, CA, but the first hour of our game to a CASUAL FOOTBALL FAN (not an NDSU nut) was pretty boring...

So you are saying that Vigen should have called the jump pass and/or flea flicker on the second drive (wouldn't work for the first because many didn't see it)?

[heffray]

So you are saying that Vigen should have called the jump pass and/or flea flicker on the second drive (wouldn't work for the first because many didn't see it)?

Yes, and at all costs. The Primary Gameplan should have been to attract fans to the NDSU and the FCS... Winning the game: Secondary.

[CaBisonFan]

I agree with you in principle, CA, but the first hour of our game to a CASUAL FOOTBALL FAN (not an NDSU nut) was pretty boring...

A lot of football fanatics (meaning millions) prefer the white noise of a football game over the silence of a meaningless basketball game...and the never-ending silence of timeouts and fouls that has become the norm in the college game.

The first hour of our game was exciting to the football purist...the eye of the beholder.

[spelunker64]

What do the NCAA Hockey playoffs receive for viewership? Already getting those texts from the intertwined letters fans (only "real" DI champions)

[HerdBot]

Imagine if espn actually ran promos and promoted the games

[Hammerhead]

Semifinal ratings -- NDSU vs. Georgia Southern = 3x SHSU at EWU. :)

[spelunker64]

Imagine if espn actually ran promos and promoted the games

They did on the Thursday night bowl game, had the Rose Bowl graphic though...

[BisonTeacher]

Semifinal ratings -- NDSU vs. Georgia Southern = 3x SHSU at EWU. :)

LOL...the DIII championship had higher ratings than the SHSU EWU Game.

[MNLonghorn10]

Exactally, yesterday one of my coworkers comes up to me, says he couldn't find the game anywhere and he wanted to watch it because I'd be there and he likes football. He knew it was supposed to be on at noon because I told him before I left, we didn't know that it would actually be on 12:17.
if your coworker has watched a bball game on ESPN, he would know most games go beyond the 2 hr limit that ESPN allots... so if he cant read a basketball gameclock..well there's nothing the world can do to help him with his problems.

[MNLonghorn10]

Casual football fan sees the FCS Championship game on the menu...tunes in...sees a boring basketball game...gone.

You're so smart.
ok so a casual fan can't read how much time is left in overtime or see the game is running longer?

Obviously they dont wanna watch the game that much if they can't wait 5 minutes or remember to come back when the game is closer to being done.

What the fuck is a causal fan anyways? are there only 1.1 million casual fans in this country? or just 1.1 million that happened to be flipping through the stations and stumbled upon an FCS championship game? A lot of people here just dont want to accept the fact that FCS compared to FBS gets 0 hype, 0 pub, 0 advertisement..and Im sure ESPN would rather have a basketball game going in the ESPN 2 time slot over NDSU/SH


You're so smart

[Trumpster]

if your coworker has watched a bball game on ESPN, he would know most games go beyond the 2 hr limit that ESPN allots... so if he cant read a basketball gameclock..well there's nothing the world can do to help him with his problems.

It is likely that he forgot what channel it was on, went through all the ESPNs, and when it wasn't on he gave up. I would say that's pretty normal reaction for a casual fan.

[HerdBot]

They did on the Thursday night bowl game, had the Rose Bowl graphic though...

So they gave us 1 half promo?

[MNLonghorn10]

It is likely that he forgot what channel it was on, went through all the ESPNs, and when it wasn't on he gave up. I would say that's pretty normal reaction for a casual fan.
He can't read "D1 Football championship" on the guide? then see that rutgers pitt has obviously spilled into the timeslot, so he changes the channel and forgets/gives up?

I'd say its more of a reflection on your coworkers intelligence than what any average joe from Colorado who was going to tune in..

[spelunker64]

So they gave us 1 half promo? Yeah they were coming off break and blurped it quick with the wrong graphic, changed it for a good .837sec of viewership. Probably got us that last 0.1 million viewers

[CaBisonFan]

ok so a casual fan can't read how much time is left in overtime or see the game is running longer?

Obviously they dont wanna watch the game that much if they can't wait 5 minutes or remember to come back when the game is closer to being done.

What the fuck is a causal fan anyways? are there only 1.1 million casual fans in this country? or just 1.1 million that happened to be flipping through the stations and stumbled upon an FCS championship game? A lot of people here just dont want to accept the fact that FCS compared to FBS gets 0 hype, 0 pub, 0 advertisement..and Im sure ESPN would rather have a basketball game going in the ESPN 2 time slot over NDSU/SH


You're so smart

A casual fan is a football fanatic who doesn't have a connection to the teams playing...but might watch if the game is interesting. The casual fan won't wait around for a boring basketball game to finish. He/she won't bother to check back if something else pops up while surfing.

Because there was a boring game playing when our game started...the viewer numbers were skewed negatively.

[MNLonghorn10]

A casual fan is a football fanatic who doesn't have a connection to the teams playing...but might watch if the game is interesting. The casual fan won't wait around for a boring basketball game to finish. He/she won't bother to check back if something else pops up while surfing.

Because there was a boring game playing when our game started...the viewer numbers were skewed negatively.
So theyre football fanatics, but if they have to wait through a boring bball game(A WHOLE 17 MINUTES) when there is NO other football games to turn to, he'll just watch something else and say to hell with the FCS game?

You're reaching for straws buddy. FCS isn't big at all, quit selling yourself hope because it smells like bullshit.

[EndZoneQB]

Casual football fan sees the FCS Championship game on the menu...tunes in...sees a boring basketball game...gone.

You're so smart.

LOL, yeah ok. If I plan on watching a football game, I'll come back to it after the previous game is over...or just stick it out for 5 minutes until the game starts. Contrary to your belief, that world does not revolve around FCS football. Nor does the "casual" fan give a rats a$$. Don't get me wrong, I wish they did, but nope...all the wishing in the world won't get that to happen. Could ESPN do things differently? Sure they could and it might help a little bit, but no one cares still. Only reason I've watched the DII Championship is because of our long history in the division so I recognize programs from 20 years ago. I can't say I've ever watched the DIII championship for more than about 15 minutes. I'm not a "casual" football fan. Hell, even when there are key FCS matchups on, I will likely be watching the national BCS/FBS game at that time...unless its an MVFC team(or playoff game) and then my "Last" button gets used excessively. You have to realize we're on the same team, I would love FCS/NDSU to be a large national success...but it's not. You just need to realize the reality of the situation...and...


....you need to lay off the MMJ...and that's not even an insult, there is some jealousy in my voice.


He can't read "D1 Football championship" on the guide? then see that rutgers pitt has obviously spilled into the timeslot, so he changes the channel and forgets/gives up?

I'd say its more of a reflection on your coworkers intelligence than what any average joe from Colorado who was going to tune in..

LMFAO, good call.


A casual fan is a football fanatic who doesn't have a connection to the teams playing...but might watch if the game is interesting. The casual fan won't wait around for a boring basketball game to finish. He/she won't bother to check back if something else pops up while surfing.

Because there was a boring game playing when our game started...the viewer numbers were skewed negatively.

Casual fan = fanatic? Uh no. A casual fan is a dude that watches the national games. A fanatic is someone that watches every game possible, regardless if it's BCS/FBS/FCS/DII/DIII/NAIA just because it's on TV. They aren't the same in the least bit. Most of us are the latter...which is why this opinion is far skewed from reality. We ARE the minority.

[CaBisonFan]

Contrary to your belief, that world does not revolve around FCS football.

I didn't know that.

[MNLonghorn10]

Im still wondering if theres only 1.1 million casual fans in this country?

[MNLonghorn10]

LOL, trumppster tried neg repping me. thanks for the gray bar newb.

[CaBisonFan]

Im still wondering if theres only 1.1 million casual fans in this country?

...casual fanatics...

Let's continue the debate about the difference between casual fans and fanatics.

[EndZoneQB]

...casual fanatics...

Let's continue the debate about the difference between casual fans and fanatics.

Debate? Aren't you a teacher? The dictionary is pretty clear about what "casual" means.

cas·u·al [kazh-oo-uh l] Show IPA
adjective
1.
happening by chance; fortuitous: a casual meeting.
2.
without definite or serious intention; careless or offhand; passing: a casual remark.
3.
seeming or tending to be indifferent to what is happening; apathetic; unconcerned: a casual, nonchalant air.
4.
appropriate for wear or use on informal occasions; not dressy: casual clothes; casual wear.
5.
irregular; occasional: a casual visitor.

fa·nat·ic [fuh-nat-ik] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

Yep. Sure needs to be a debate about them being the same. Not even close to the same.

[MNLonghorn10]

...casual fanatics...

Let's continue the debate about the difference between casual fans and fanatics.
excuse me, fanatic. :facepalm:

You are just selling false hope that FCS can attract an average viewer(or to you, casual fan) and it shows that even the worst FBS bowl games, is something ANY casual fan(atic) would watch over a FCS championship...by 2 times the audience. it is what it is

[MNLonghorn10]

So theres 1.1 million casual fanatics according to CaBisonFan.

0 casual fans watched the game. Im sure he's basing his research off proven #'s, history, calculations, formulas and not just his warped opinion because it involves NDSU.

[roadwarrior]

It's going to be a long off season!

[CaBisonFan]

Oh yeah...this discussion is worth hours of study.

[MNLonghorn10]

Oh yeah...this discussion is worth hours of study.
Haha. well the amount of people who care about the differences between fans and fanatics are probably more than the ones who watched NDSU/SH

[BlueBisonRock]

LOL, trumppster tried neg repping me. thanks for the gray bar newb.

Rather judgemental. It could have been positive rep. Both show as grey until 50 posts (with .GT. zero rep) occur.

That said, check neg rep. ;)

[BlueBisonRock]

We can thank 'Heidi' for all of this thread drift and consternation!

The TV movie, not the ND Senator elect.

[HerdBot]

Well no matter how you shake it, 2 million people saw Bison football over 2 games and that doesn't include the 4 playoff games on espn3 as well as the 4 games on Gameplan, 4 reg season games on espn3, 2 on Fox College Sports, 11 regular season games, most on statewide, and the 2x we made the top plays of the day on sports center, had highlights on sports center , espn college gameday, Paul Allen radio plugs, Scott Van Pelt, Dan Patrick, and of course the playoff selection show which pimped NDSU for an hour. We are getting big time coverage.

[MNLonghorn10]

Well no matter how you shake it, 2 million people saw Bison football over 2 games and that doesn't include the 4 playoff games on espn3 as well as the 4 games on Gameplan, 4 reg season games on espn3, 2 on Fox College Sports, 11 regular season games, most on statewide, and the 2x we made the top plays of the day on sports center, had highlights on sports center , espn college gameday, Paul Allen radio plugs, Scott Van Pelt, Dan Patrick, and of course the playoff selection show which pimped NDSU for an hour. We are getting big time coverage.

Lmao. Awesome

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[MAKBison]

My issue with espn is this.

Air the games where you see fit when you see fit, ok its your network--Fine. However, if your going to cover a game at least do a good job. If you are going to half ass it, let other networks run with it.

[gizmo]

ESPN doesn't care one bit about FCS or Division 2 or 3 and neither do 90+% of football fans. Get used to it. ESPN only broadcasts the lower division games because the NCAA requires it as part of the contract. Without the NCAA, it's doubtful that these games would be on national TV at all. So, ESPN does the bare minimum to satisfy the contract and there is little promotion and only token effort with the broadcast.

Of course, we could move up to FBS where we would play in a meaningless conference and end up in the Rinky Dink Bowl once in awhile. No thanks!

[MAKBison]

Ok that's fine, but why not let others air the game as well. Are you saying its the NCAA is stopping this.

[gizmo]

Ok that's fine, but why not let others air the game as well. Are you saying its the NCAA is stopping this.

Two-edged sword, I suppose. IMO, the NCAA is mostly our friend in this deal. Otherwise, we could be left with a regional or statewide network broadcasting in blurry-vision or perhaps not at all.

On the flip side, it's possible ESPN actually loses money on the lower division games and they would love to dump them but the NCAA contract prevents it.

I'll place the blame for low TV ratings on SHSU. The bottom line is that the broadcast was much more important to NDSU fans than SHSU's. SHSU was only 80 miles away and yet their apathetic fans and alumni essentially boycotted the game and I'd bet that few of them watched on TV either. What a pathetic showing by SHSU!

[ndsubison1]

Exactally, yesterday one of my coworkers comes up to me, says he couldn't find the game anywhere and he wanted to watch it because I'd be there and he likes football. He knew it was supposed to be on at noon because I told him before I left, we didn't know that it would actually be on 12:17.

That happens pretty much every day tho with games going later than scheduled. A normal sports fan should understand this

[BlueBisonRock]

That happens pretty much every day tho with games going later than scheduled. A normal sports fan should understand this

I really thought you would have figured it out by now Ming. Bison fans are not normal!

[BISONFANAJ]

I actually think 1.1 million viewers is pretty good.

[Strongman]

It shows another reason why NDSU should move up and join the MAC. The fact of the matter that most of the country does not care about the FCS Playoffs and Championships, per the ratings. Everyone wants to watch the "Big Dawgs" play.

This is not your grandfather's NDSU, nor your father's NDSU. This is 2013. It's time to be progressive and stop thinking circa 1962. Let's build a 30,000 + stadium, get a piece of that Western North Dakota Oil money per donations and naming rights, and make the move.

Do you really think the alumni and Teammakers would tolerate mediocrity at the next level??????

[MankatoBison]

Not really good for comparison purposes since whatever is on ESPN will automatically get double the ratings of anything on ESPN2.


But I'm with MNLongHorn - I don't follow NDSU because of what people in New Jersey or California watch on TV.

COULD NOT AGREE MORE
If you gave us a prime time slot on ESPN our viewership would be 3-4x more. Thats just the reality of it. I am personally fine with playing on ESPN2 but if we get shut down for some reason because we're not "pulling in ratings" while on ESPN2, I'm gonna be really pissed haha. And the other B'villers will be too obviously

[BisonTeacher]

It shows another reason why NDSU should move up and join the MAC. The fact of the matter that most of the country does not care about the FCS Playoffs and Championships, per the ratings. Everyone wants to watch the "Big Dawgs" play.

This is not your grandfather's NDSU, nor your father's NDSU. This is 2013. It's time to be progressive and stop thinking circa 1962.

Boooooooooooooooooo!!!!! Do you like gift bags????

[BisonNation11]

Boooooooooooooooooo!!!!! Do you like gift bags????

I think he likes big corporate sponsors cramming their product up his sphincter so he can be hypnotized to go purchase their product that is usually worthless to the average consumer and being forced to watch really crappy football that is totally over hyped compared to the brand of football NDSU and the FCS Championships provide. With that being said, I do love me some gift bags! Wonder what they got in Frisco!

[BlueBisonRock]

I think he likes big corporate sponsors cramming their product up his sphincter so he can be hypnotized to go purchase their product that is usually worthless to the average consumer and being forced to watch really crappy football that is totally over hyped compared to the brand of football NDSU and the FCS Championships provide. With that being said, I do love me some gift bags! Wonder what they got in Frisco!

I can't speak for the Bison, but Sammy got a whole grocery bag of kickass.

[mnriverbison]

Oh yeah...this discussion is worth hours of study.

In the off-season, it's no less worthy than anything else.

The truth is that anti go-FBSers frequently site the national relevance of the FCS playoffs vs the who cares also-ran bowl. Turns out they are wrong. The who-cares also ran bowl gets far better ratings than FCS playoffs. Anyone looking beyond the green and gold glasses knows that the FCS playoffs are really only watched by fans of the teams who happen to be playing with a few hundred thousand tv's thrown in which ESPN2 will get no matter what it airs.

This isn't rocket science.

And truly, I'm in the go FBS crowd now. We can stop pretending that the FCS title is nationally relevant, and I'm sure in the very near future FBS TV money will offset any title IX expenses if it already doesn't. MAC, Mountain West, whatever. Let's do this! In essence, what anti-FBSers are hanging their hat on now is that beating clearly inferior opponents hasn't gotten old yet so we may as well wait until it does. Fair enough, sports are cyclical and I doubt we can count on permanent FCS dominance. But right here right now is a great chance to make the leap which may not be there when the inevitable cycle turns on us.

[SDbison]

In the off-season, it's no less worthy than anything else.

The truth is that anti go-FBSers frequently site the national relevance of the FCS playoffs vs the who cares also-ran bowl. Turns out they are wrong. The who-cares also ran bowl gets far better ratings than FCS playoffs. Anyone looking beyond the green and gold glasses knows that the FCS playoffs are really only watched by fans of the teams who happen to be playing with a few hundred thousand tv's thrown in which ESPN2 will get no matter what it airs.


This isn't rocket science.

And truly, I'm in the go FBS crowd now. We can stop pretending that the FCS title is nationally relevant, and I'm sure in the very near future FBS TV money will offset any title IX expenses if it already doesn't. MAC, Mountain West, whatever. Let's do this! In essence, what anti-FBSers are hanging their hat on now is that beating clearly inferior opponents hasn't gotten old yet so we may as well wait until it does. Fair enough, sports are cyclical and I doubt we can count on permanent FCS dominance. But right here right now is a great chance to make the leap which may not be there when the inevitable cycle turns on us.
Can't agree more:
Three peat.........save move to FBS.

[MNLonghorn10]

In the off-season, it's no less worthy than anything else.

The truth is that anti go-FBSers frequently site the national relevance of the FCS playoffs vs the who cares also-ran bowl. Turns out they are wrong. The who-cares also ran bowl gets far better ratings than FCS playoffs. Anyone looking beyond the green and gold glasses knows that the FCS playoffs are really only watched by fans of the teams who happen to be playing with a few hundred thousand tv's thrown in which ESPN2 will get no matter what it airs.

This isn't rocket science.

And truly, I'm in the go FBS crowd now. We can stop pretending that the FCS title is nationally relevant, and I'm sure in the very near future FBS TV money will offset any title IX expenses if it already doesn't. MAC, Mountain West, whatever. Let's do this! In essence, what anti-FBSers are hanging their hat on now is that beating clearly inferior opponents hasn't gotten old yet so we may as well wait until it does. Fair enough, sports are cyclical and I doubt we can count on permanent FCS dominance. But right here right now is a great chance to make the leap which may not be there when the inevitable cycle turns on us.

I dont wanna ruin what we have great right now which is a true playoff tournament. Idgaf if the east or west watch... Igaf if i keep getting to ailgate and attend epic dome atmosphere games.

Id really hold off on fbs until we see what they do. If its just a 4-8 team playoff..we can kiss talking national championships away for the rest of our lives....reread that and tell me if youre pro fbs still.

Fcs tournament>>> ndsu getting more money/exposure that will have ill see zero benefit from.

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[IndyBison]

In the off-season, it's no less worthy than anything else.

The truth is that anti go-FBSers frequently site the national relevance of the FCS playoffs vs the who cares also-ran bowl. Turns out they are wrong. The who-cares also ran bowl gets far better ratings than FCS playoffs. Anyone looking beyond the green and gold glasses knows that the FCS playoffs are really only watched by fans of the teams who happen to be playing with a few hundred thousand tv's thrown in which ESPN2 will get no matter what it airs.

This isn't rocket science.

And truly, I'm in the go FBS crowd now. We can stop pretending that the FCS title is nationally relevant, and I'm sure in the very near future FBS TV money will offset any title IX expenses if it already doesn't. MAC, Mountain West, whatever. Let's do this! In essence, what anti-FBSers are hanging their hat on now is that beating clearly inferior opponents hasn't gotten old yet so we may as well wait until it does. Fair enough, sports are cyclical and I doubt we can count on permanent FCS dominance. But right here right now is a great chance to make the leap which may not be there when the inevitable cycle turns on us.
The national relevance won't be significantly higher in FBS but it will be higher. Is it enough to give up the excitement of a national championship? Success will be measured more by conference championships and advancing a couple rounds in a playoff. That's good enough for basketball but is it good enough for football? There would be other silent benefits as well (MAC coaches more likely to be considered for FBS jobs, MAC players more likely to get a look at the next level, more reasons to interact with other FBS programs). A move to FBS wouldn't put us in the same category as Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio State, Michigan, but it wouldn't hurt either. The only thing we really give up is a reasonable opportunity to compete for a championship.

[A1pigskin]

No respect.

[dragonsfan]

Once ndsu goes fbs they will get espn love like boise

[BisonTeacher]

In the off-season, it's no less worthy than anything else.

The truth is that anti go-FBSers frequently site the national relevance of the FCS playoffs vs the who cares also-ran bowl. Turns out they are wrong. The who-cares also ran bowl gets far better ratings than FCS playoffs. Anyone looking beyond the green and gold glasses knows that the FCS playoffs are really only watched by fans of the teams who happen to be playing with a few hundred thousand tv's thrown in which ESPN2 will get no matter what it airs.

This isn't rocket science.

And truly, I'm in the go FBS crowd now. We can stop pretending that the FCS title is nationally relevant, and I'm sure in the very near future FBS TV money will offset any title IX expenses if it already doesn't. MAC, Mountain West, whatever. Let's do this! In essence, what anti-FBSers are hanging their hat on now is that beating clearly inferior opponents hasn't gotten old yet so we may as well wait until it does. Fair enough, sports are cyclical and I doubt we can count on permanent FCS dominance. But right here right now is a great chance to make the leap which may not be there when the inevitable cycle turns on us.

Seriously? What do you think the move to fbs will bring us? Money? Good lord.

We are way more relevant as big fish in the small pond rather than vice versa. Speaking of relavance...it means more to me as a fan. I would lose interest if we were fbs. Games would mean way less. Ratings? One worthless bowl game (if we made one) vs 2 possibly 3 games on espn2 or espnu? Green and gold glasses? Set down the green and gold bong. You take a fan base that has generations of fans used to playoffs and give them a crappy bowl game? No way you get that many people at a pep rally the night before. But you made money right? Wrong...you lost money on the gusranteed tickets you had to buy.

[Strongman]

I think he likes big corporate sponsors cramming their product up his sphincter so he can be hypnotized to go purchase their product that is usually worthless to the average consumer and being forced to watch really crappy football that is totally over hyped compared to the brand of football NDSU and the FCS Championships provide. With that being said, I do love me some gift bags! Wonder what they got in Frisco!

Do you still drive a Model T, Grandpa? All you old farts want NDSU to be a small college football program forever.

[BisonTeacher]

Do you still drive a Model T, Grandpa? All you old farts want NDSU to be a small college football program forever.

Dammit i was gonna type at the end of my last post...cue the old timers or small time simple minded lack of vision argument in 3...2....1... but you beat me to it.

Come up with something better.

[MankatoBison]

Anyone who thinks we're magically gonna see ESPN every Saturday because we're in the MAC, MW or whatever is delusional. You have to be an idiot to think the only reason we didnt get views on ESPN was because we're FCS and that no one cares. I dont know what to tell you... Worlds strongest man is a pathetic excuse for sports programming but it got higher ratings than the the title game.. Why? MNRIVERBISON would tell you that America likes the Worlds strongest Man competition more than FCS football..........
the only reasons why we didnt get the ratings is that we were on ESPN 2. Anyone who thinks otherwise should change their avatar to a Whoiux decal so we all know who the idiots are on here.

I guess I'm not necessarily opposed to going FBS... But I the reality is, is that Joining the MAC wont bring us all the fame and glory the anti-FCSers think it will. Do I think we could be competitive? Yes. Do I think we could win a considerable amount of conference championships? Yes. Do I think there's a CHANCE of making a BCS game sometime in our first 10-15 years? Absolutely. Do I think there is a legitimate shot at becoming a perenial contender on the national stage?? No............

Best case scenario... We become Boise State 2.0 ... But the reality is, we cant jump into the next level EXPECTING to succeed in the way Boise has. They're an anomaly and an enigma for a reason and thats because no one else has been able to do it.... All I can think of when discussing going to the next level is Marshal....

That being said, If us Montana State, Montana, and UNI got together and said lets all do this at the same time, I would be more intrigued... But until there's some kind of extended playoff system in the FBS then I dont think Bohl or Taylor will be interested. They know what theyre doing..

But still the fact of the matter is... is that we have an insane fan base. It wont matter FCS or FBS, we are going to be just as passionate about the Bison as we are today. I personally hope we stay, but recognize that this decision will come to the forefront in a matter of years. FBS or FCS, none of us are going to stop cheering

[MankatoBison]

[QUOTE=BisonTeacher;706372]
Seriously? What do you think the move to fbs will bring us? Money? Good lord.
Green and gold glasses? Set down the green and gold bong. You take a fan base that has generations of fans used to playoffs and give them a crappy bowl game? No way you get that many people at a pep rally the night before. But you made money right? Wrong...you lost money on the gusranteed tickets you had to buy. [/QUOTE...]

This is really good point

[Hammerhead]

NDSU would most likely lose money if we were in one of the bottom feeder bowls although NDSU might be able to draw 30,000 to a game down south during the week between Crhistmas and New Years since fans would have 3-4 weeks to make plans.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls12/story/_/id/8820569/time-bowls-do-more-their-own

[BisonTeacher]

Some Pro FBS-ers actually think we might be able to win a championship, which is delusional. But sometimes I think some of them want to be FBS...just so they can say we are FBS. I don't really see what other benefit it brings us. I think it would hurt us more in the long run.

Call it small time, call me an old timer. but sometimes you just have to know where you belong. If I see a super model in a bar, Im not gonna go up and try to hit on her. I'm short chubby and goofy looking. I got no shot, and my wife might be a little upset with me. Im not saying NDSU is short, chubby and goofy looking, but I think we are in exactly the right place and FBS talk is crazy IMO. I think it would actually hurt us and make us even less relevant in the long run.

[BlueBisonRock]

Some Pro FBS-ers actually think we might be able to win a championship, which is delusional. But sometimes I think some of them want to be FBS...just so they can say we are FBS. I don't really see what other benefit it brings us. I think it would hurt us more in the long run.

Call it small time, call me an old timer. but sometimes you just have to know where you belong. If I see a super model in a bar, Im not gonna go up and try to hit on her. I'm short chubby and goofy looking. I got no shot, and my wife might be a little upset with me. Im not saying NDSU is short, chubby and goofy looking, but I think we are in exactly the right place and FBS talk is crazy IMO. I think it would actually hurt us and make us even less relevant in the long run.

On the other hand, if your wife were in that same bar, she would be getting constant attention.

[BisonTeacher]

On the other hand, if your wife were in that same bar, she would be getting constant attention.

Yes. From me! Lol.

[onbison09]

In the off-season, it's no less worthy than anything else.

The truth is that anti go-FBSers frequently site the national relevance of the FCS playoffs vs the who cares also-ran bowl. Turns out they are wrong. The who-cares also ran bowl gets far better ratings than FCS playoffs. Anyone looking beyond the green and gold glasses knows that the FCS playoffs are really only watched by fans of the teams who happen to be playing with a few hundred thousand tv's thrown in which ESPN2 will get no matter what it airs.

This isn't rocket science.

And truly, I'm in the go FBS crowd now. We can stop pretending that the FCS title is nationally relevant, and I'm sure in the very near future FBS TV money will offset any title IX expenses if it already doesn't. MAC, Mountain West, whatever. Let's do this! In essence, what anti-FBSers are hanging their hat on now is that beating clearly inferior opponents hasn't gotten old yet so we may as well wait until it does. Fair enough, sports are cyclical and I doubt we can count on permanent FCS dominance. But right here right now is a great chance to make the leap which may not be there when the inevitable cycle turns on us.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, who really cares? Assuming NDSU would be in the MAC. Last year, couldn't find this year's championship game got a 0.6 rating. Our semi got a 0.7. The GoDaddy.com bowl got about 800,000 more viewers. Maybe I'm just not getting it but would 800,000 viewers be worth a bowl game that started at 9 local time on a Sunday night in Mobile, Alabama. Plus if you win, is it that big of a deal to be godaddy.com bowl champions? Granted, if we made the Orange Bowl, that would be badass but a MAC team has done that once.

[Elvis was a Bison]

Do you still drive a Model T, Grandpa? All you old farts want NDSU to be a small college football program forever.

Hey, Junior... Don't just be one of those smart talking newbies. Bring something to the dance!!! Answer a couple of questions for me.
We are now in the MAC.


1. Who is our "natural rival" for our yearly big game?

2. What do we play for?

3. What is our closest away game? Most distant?

4. How does 19K seats compare to the stadiums in the other schools in the MAC?

5. What impact does a 6 - 5 record have on home attendance.

Hmmmm. Did I miss anything that you could enlighten us on?:facepalm::facepalm:

[onbison09]

Hey, Junior... Don't just be one of those smart talking newbies. Bring something to the dance!!! Answer a couple of questions for me.
We are now in the MAC.


1. Who is our "natural rival" for our yearly big game?

2. What do we play for?

3. What is our closest away game? Most distant?

4. How does 19K seats compare to the stadiums in the other schools in the MAC?

5. What impact does a 6 - 5 record have on home attendance.

Hmmmm. Did I miss anything that you could enlighten us on?:facepalm::facepalm:

I think this is a huge point. College football sucks without rivalries. My school is in the Sun Belt and we suck royally. But it's impossible to get excited for the games because our "rival" is Middle Tennessee State. That's horrible. But honestly I'd rather watch 2 good Valley teams than 2 good Belt teams because teams in the Valley have natural rivalries.

[BisonNation11]

Do you still drive a Model T, Grandpa? All you old farts want NDSU to be a small college football program forever.

You mean younger than you, grandpa? If that's what you meant than yes. I do drive a truck. A large one at that. Last time I checked we have been D1 eligible for what, 5 years? You honestly think every year will be the same as the last two? Take the glasses off. We are at the absolute peak of an apex of a roller coaster we call college football. We are in the BEGINNING stages of learning what this D1 thing is all about. To us we are a program. To the rest of the college football world, we're newbies. Yeah, we've had success early, but are we going to be that team that lets it go to our heads or are we going to be the team that sets the bar, that raises the bar, that demands every team keep up or we will become THE program to imitate and strive to be. I'd rather choose the latter and set the tone. I want this team to be a leader. Why? Because I like being a leader. I like setting the tone. I like having that swagger of confidence. Join the MAC or MW and we suddenly become just another team, swimming in an ocean, trying to keep our heads above water. It's not geographically smart, it's not financially smart, and as a fan, being just average would just plain suck. You can have your Drano Liquid Plumber Bowl and a chance at a BCS Bowl every 150 years. I will take the rings, the view from the top, and the recognition that comes with it. When the FBS settles down and we are in a financially capable situation, then and only then, do I hope the University takes a look at making the jump.

[ndsubison1]

Anyone who thinks we're magically gonna see ESPN every Saturday because we're in the MAC, MW or whatever is delusional. You have to be an idiot to think the only reason we didnt get views on ESPN was because we're FCS and that no one cares. I dont know what to tell you... Worlds strongest man is a pathetic excuse for sports programming but it got higher ratings than the the title game.. Why? MNRIVERBISON would tell you that America likes the Worlds strongest Man competition more than FCS football..........
the only reasons why we didnt get the ratings is that we were on ESPN 2. Anyone who thinks otherwise should change their avatar to a Whoiux decal so we all know who the idiots are on here.

I guess I'm not necessarily opposed to going FBS... But I the reality is, is that Joining the MAC wont bring us all the fame and glory the anti-FCSers think it will. Do I think we could be competitive? Yes. Do I think we could win a considerable amount of conference championships? Yes. Do I think there's a CHANCE of making a BCS game sometime in our first 10-15 years? Absolutely. Do I think there is a legitimate shot at becoming a perenial contender on the national stage?? No............

Best case scenario... We become Boise State 2.0 ... But the reality is, we cant jump into the next level EXPECTING to succeed in the way Boise has. They're an anomaly and an enigma for a reason and thats because no one else has been able to do it.... All I can think of when discussing going to the next level is Marshal....

That being said, If us Montana State, Montana, and UNI got together and said lets all do this at the same time, I would be more intrigued... But until there's some kind of extended playoff system in the FBS then I dont think Bohl or Taylor will be interested. They know what theyre doing..

But still the fact of the matter is... is that we have an insane fan base. It wont matter FCS or FBS, we are going to be just as passionate about the Bison as we are today. I personally hope we stay, but recognize that this decision will come to the forefront in a matter of years. FBS or FCS, none of us are going to stop cheering

just look at odu-georgia southern. that game was a quarterfinal game and was on ESPN. it had the most viewers of all the fcs playoff games

[NDSUstudent]

The difference between the FCS playoff games and the lower level bowls can be summed up in one word....Gambling. If Vegas didn't set lines for the crappy bowls their ratings would drop.

[Strongman]

Hey, Junior... Don't just be one of those smart talking newbies. Bring something to the dance!!! Answer a couple of questions for me.
We are now in the MAC.


1. Who is our "natural rival" for our yearly big game?

This would yet to be determined. Who knows? Since "losing" are biggest rival, UND, and moving up--ATTENDANCE AND THE POPULARITY OF THE BISON IS AT AN ALL TIME HIGH! A whole new generation, including Bison players for the last 8 years don't care about UND. We don't need a big rivalry for our program.

2. What do we play for? A top 20 ranking, a BCS bowl, and an automatic playoff berth, once they have a 16 to 20 team playofff.

3. What is our closest away game? Most distant? MAC scheduling and traveling not that much more than Summit and MVC.

4. How does 19K seats compare to the stadiums in the other schools in the MAC? Near the top. I believe we would be third or so in attendance right off the bat. But we should have a 35,000 seat stadium (Boise State's is currently 37,000) so we have a facility for 40 years.

5. What impact does a 6 - 5 record have on home attendance. Very little if we move up. At a minimum, we are already a 8-3 team in the MAC.

Hmmmm. Did I miss anything that you could enlighten us on?:facepalm::facepalm:

Answer a question for me. WHY DID NDSU MOVE UP TO DIVISION ONE IF we NEVER have a chance to win a national championship in baseball, basketball and wrestling????????

[56BISON73]

Answer a question for me. WHY DID NDSU MOVE UP TO DIVISION ONE IF we NEVER have a chance to win a national championship in baseball, basketball and wrestling????????

We moved to get out of a watered down and depleted D2. Not to mention only 30+ schollies for football.

[Strongman]

You do realize that the same thing is starting to happen in the FCS, correct?

[56BISON73]

You do realize that the same thing is starting to happen in the FCS, correct?

I dont see that a few teams exploring a move to FBS anything to be alarmed about.

[td577]

I think the landscape of college football will be changing very soon. Once any playoff system is in place, fbs will finally expand the system to 20 teams because the payoff will be absolutely huge.

Once fbs has an expanded playoff scenario, this will create further divide among the top 50 teams and everyone else. Between fbs and fcs, three 64 team divisions could be formed. Divided only by scholarship numbers.

Since d2 is a scholarship level, you promote the four tiers of college football by scholarship numbers as a complete package. There is a level for everyone, the differences are clearly defined, and through package promotion there will be less of a difference between the levels as far as interest is concerned. The ultimate culmination of the season will be championship weekend. Five championship games starting on Thursday night with d3 and finishing with the Monday night tier one championship.

It would be the diehard college football fanatic's wet dream.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonTeacher]

It's not geologically smart, it's not financially smart, and as a fan, being just average would just plain suck.

I think you mean geographically. But yes, earthquakes, volcanoes and glaciers would also put a damper on a move to FBS as well. :biggrin:

[IzzyFlexion]

If I see a super model in a bar, Im not gonna go up and try to hit on her. I'm short chubby and goofy looking.

On B-Ville, if you expect the self deprication strategy to work for you, periodically you gotta be willing to remind us how tiny your penis is too.

[BisonTeacher]

On B-Ville, if you expect the self deprication route to work for you you gotta be willing to periodically remind us how tiny your penis is too.

I said short and chubby didnt I? ;-)

[IzzyFlexion]

I said short and chubby didnt I? ;-)

Indeed, sir.
Carry on..........

[NorthernBison]

We moved to get out of a watered down and depleted D2. Not to mention only 30+ schollies for football.

I see your point but Strongman and others tend to draw the WRONG conclusions from it.

We were not in any way dominating DII football. We were routinely losing to UND and playoff appearances were hit and miss. I think some people conveniently forget about that part of history. There's a reason for it. Our fundraising advantage wasn't available to us with a 36 scholarship limit. We can use it to max benefit with a 63 scholarship limit.

We moved up to be with more of our PEERS. Programs like Montana, UNI, etc have similar support and potential. We have the resources to be right at the top of FCS.

We also have the resources to be right at the top of conferences like the MAC and probably the MWC. The problem is that those conferences will NEVER be respected by the big dogs of FBS. They are LIGHT YEARS away from really competing.

I'm sick of the Boise State example. Boise was moving to the Big East because they understood that they were NOTHING in the eyes of the rest of the FBS unless they were in a REAL CONFERENCE. Unfortunately for them, the Big East crumbled so they aren't making the move. What people fail to understand is that Boise staying in the MWC DOES NOT MAKE THE CONFERENCE MORE RELEVANT. It just stops it from sliding into oblivion. Boise State remains where they always were. Getting no respect from the SEC, Big 10, PAC 10 etc.

Conferences like the MAC and MWC might have slightly more national relevance to college football fans than the FCS. It is so trivial that it is a distinction without a difference. Even programs like the Gophers look down on the MAC. That's a fact and it ain't changin guys.

THe MAC, Sun Belt, MWC, etc are not going to get a seat at the table if a real FBS playoff system is set up. Northern Illinois getting to the Orange Bowl is a problem that I doubt the Big conferences will allow to happen again. Did you hear any respect from the rest of FBS for NIU? I didn't. Cruise the message boards. Mostly outrage that they were there and a "more deserving" program didn't get the spot.

[onbison09]

Don't forget Tuesday games for TV! Those are fun!

[BisonNation11]

Answer a question for me. WHY DID NDSU MOVE UP TO DIVISION ONE IF we NEVER have a chance to win a national championship in baseball, basketball and wrestling????????


You do realize that the same thing is starting to happen in the FCS, correct?

This isn't Jeopardy. You're allowed to answer questions with actual facts or your opinions. I'm sure you would have done that already though if you had a leg to stand on.

[devin45k]

Answer a question for me. WHY DID NDSU MOVE UP TO DIVISION ONE IF we NEVER have a chance to win a national championship in baseball, basketball and wrestling????????

Because Division 2 is a joke now.

We have FCS, which is fun, but we are building on all of our other Men's programs. Why not attempt to be elite in wrestling in Division 1? We are consistently winning conference championships in other sports.

Why not get the exposure being division 1 and attempting to be a successful mid-major?

[344Johnson]

Because Division 2 is a joke now.

We have FCS, which is fun, but we are building on all of our other Men's programs. Why not attempt to be elite in wrestling in Division 1? We are consistently winning conference championships in other sports.

Why not get the exposure being division 1 and attempting to be a successful mid-major?

I think NDSU is moving in the right direction for wrestling. Wouldn't be surprised to see it get more money thrown it's direction if they are as good as they seem to be. Hope they can keep it going after Sprenkle(sp?) and Monk are gone.

[tjamz]

It's going to be a long off season!

Fire bisonville, save off season!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[MankatoBison]

I see your point but Strongman and others tend to draw the WRONG conclusions from it.

We were not in any way dominating DII football. We were routinely losing to UND and playoff appearances were hit and miss. I think some people conveniently forget about that part of history. There's a reason for it. Our fundraising advantage wasn't available to us with a 36 scholarship limit. We can use it to max benefit with a 63 scholarship limit.

We moved up to be with more of our PEERS. Programs like Montana, UNI, etc have similar support and potential. We have the resources to be right at the top of FCS.

We also have the resources to be right at the top of conferences like the MAC and probably the MWC. The problem is that those conferences will NEVER be respected by the big dogs of FBS. They are LIGHT YEARS away from really competing.

I'm sick of the Boise State example. Boise was moving to the Big East because they understood that they were NOTHING in the eyes of the rest of the FBS unless they were in a REAL CONFERENCE. Unfortunately for them, the Big East crumbled so they aren't making the move. What people fail to understand is that Boise staying in the MWC DOES NOT MAKE THE CONFERENCE MORE RELEVANT. It just stops it from sliding into oblivion. Boise State remains where they always were. Getting no respect from the SEC, Big 10, PAC 10 etc.

Conferences like the MAC and MWC might have slightly more national relevance to college football fans than the FCS. It is so trivial that it is a distinction without a difference. Even programs like the Gophers look down on the MAC. That's a fact and it ain't changin guys.

THe MAC, Sun Belt, MWC, etc are not going to get a seat at the table if a real FBS playoff system is set up. Northern Illinois getting to the Orange Bowl is a problem that I doubt the Big conferences will allow to happen again. Did you hear any respect from the rest of FBS for NIU? I didn't. Cruise the message boards. Mostly outrage that they were there and a "more deserving" program didn't get the spot.

HERE, HERE! everything you just said is TRUE.

[MankatoBison]

Hey, Junior... Don't just be one of those smart talking newbies. Bring something to the dance!!! Answer a couple of questions for me.
We are now in the MAC.


1. Who is our "natural rival" for our yearly big game?

2. What do we play for?

3. What is our closest away game? Most distant?

4. How does 19K seats compare to the stadiums in the other schools in the MAC?

5. What impact does a 6 - 5 record have on home attendance.

Hmmmm. Did I miss anything that you could enlighten us on?:facepalm::facepalm:

I totally agree with all of those points. Couldnt agree more.
that being said.... lets just say we convince Montana, Maybe Montana State and UNI to jump with us... How much, if at all, does that sway your thought process on the jump? To me its more lucrative to have natural rivals, but obviously this is a veeeeery theoretical scenario...

[BisonTeacher]

I totally agree with all of those points. Couldnt agree more.
that being said.... lets just say we convince Montana, Maybe Montana State and UNI to jump with us... How much, if at all, does that sway your thought process on the jump? To me its more lucrative to have natural rivals, but obviously this is a veeeeery theoretical scenario...

Again...I ask...what do we gain from moving?

[BisonNation11]

Again...I ask...what do we gain from moving?

We're building the new stadium in Hillsboro?!?! CAS will be thrilled!!!

[MankatoBison]

I'm not saying we gain anything, I'm very much on the pro-FCS side, but I was just asking if it would make it more lucrative with others coming with us?

[Elvis was a Bison]

This isn't Jeopardy. You're allowed to answer questions with actual facts or your opinions. I'm sure you would have done that already though if you had a leg to stand on.

What he said!!!!!

[Elvis was a Bison]

:bowdown::bowdown:
I totally agree with all of those points. Couldnt agree more.
that being said.... lets just say we convince Montana, Maybe Montana State and UNI to jump with us... How much, if at all, does that sway your thought process on the jump? To me its more lucrative to have natural rivals, but obviously this is a veeeeery theoretical scenario...

Spend a little time on the fan boards of the teams you just mentioned. I see no great desire to move to a lower tier FBS program. I see a lot of talk about doing what we already do. Win FCS Championships

[Facts]

I see your point but Strongman and others tend to draw the WRONG conclusions from it.

We were not in any way dominating DII football. We were routinely losing to UND and playoff appearances were hit and miss. I think some people conveniently forget about that part of history. There's a reason for it. Our fundraising advantage wasn't available to us with a 36 scholarship limit. We can use it to max benefit with a 63 scholarship limit.

We moved up to be with more of our PEERS. Programs like Montana, UNI, etc have similar support and potential. We have the resources to be right at the top of FCS.

We also have the resources to be right at the top of conferences like the MAC and probably the MWC. The problem is that those conferences will NEVER be respected by the big dogs of FBS. They are LIGHT YEARS away from really competing.

I'm sick of the Boise State example. Boise was moving to the Big East because they understood that they were NOTHING in the eyes of the rest of the FBS unless they were in a REAL CONFERENCE. Unfortunately for them, the Big East crumbled so they aren't making the move. What people fail to understand is that Boise staying in the MWC DOES NOT MAKE THE CONFERENCE MORE RELEVANT. It just stops it from sliding into oblivion. Boise State remains where they always were. Getting no respect from the SEC, Big 10, PAC 10 etc.

Conferences like the MAC and MWC might have slightly more national relevance to college football fans than the FCS. It is so trivial that it is a distinction without a difference. Even programs like the Gophers look down on the MAC. That's a fact and it ain't changin guys.

THe MAC, Sun Belt, MWC, etc are not going to get a seat at the table if a real FBS playoff system is set up. Northern Illinois getting to the Orange Bowl is a problem that I doubt the Big conferences will allow to happen again. Did you hear any respect from the rest of FBS for NIU? I didn't. Cruise the message boards. Mostly outrage that they were there and a "more deserving" program didn't get the spot.

I agree with everything but the italicized statement. UNI may be an athletic peer, but in no way is it an academic peer (Montana isn't a land grant, I have no idea on their academics, probably und-like). NDSU is a Land Grant research institution with academic peers in the top echelon of research as described by the Carnegie Commission on Higher Ed. Our academics and land grant status strengthen our athletic opportunities in the future, whenever that may be.

[MankatoBison]

:bowdown::bowdown:

Spend a little time on the fan boards of the teams you just mentioned. I see no great desire to move to a lower tier FBS program. I see a lot of talk about doing what we already do. Win FCS Championships

I knooooooooow, I never said I thought going FBS is the way to go nor did I say that I wanted to go to FBS. and I also never said that montana, MSU or UNI wanted to go either, I'm just curious to know if it would alter B'Villers thoughts on jumping if other schools went with us.

[344Johnson]

The problem is that those conferences will NEVER be respected by the big dogs of FBS. They are LIGHT YEARS away from really competing.

I'm sick of the Boise State example. Boise was moving to the Big East because they understood that they were NOTHING in the eyes of the rest of the FBS unless they were in a REAL CONFERENCE. Boise State remains where they always were. Getting no respect from the SEC, Big 10, PAC 10 etc.

Conferences like the MAC and MWC might have slightly more national relevance to college football fans than the FCS. It is so trivial that it is a distinction without a difference. Even programs like the Gophers look down on the MAC. That's a fact and it ain't changin guys.

THe MAC, Sun Belt, MWC, etc are not going to get a seat at the table if a real FBS playoff system is set up. Northern Illinois getting to the Orange Bowl is a problem that I doubt the Big conferences will allow to happen again. Did you hear any respect from the rest of FBS for NIU? I didn't. Cruise the message boards. Mostly outrage that they were there and a "more deserving" program didn't get the spot.

Not that I 100% disagree with you, but the BCS conferences AT THIS POINT in time have to give a certain amount of respect to the MAC, MWC, etc. If one of those conferences has a member who is in the BCS formula's top 16 teams(I believe 16), and is rated ahead of a BCS conference champ, they automatically get into a BCS game. That doesn't mean that the other conferences necessarily respected those teams, but they have no choice but to let them join the dance.

I am not sure on the new format coming, I am guessing it will be extremely tough for a non-BCS team to make it to the play-off. From what I have experienced during my short lifetime, playoffs have never contracted, only expanded. I believe that this will also happen for the FBS playoff format. Whether it is in 10 or 20 years. I think at some point, any conferences left in the FBS as we know it, will have at least the conference champion in the tourney. That said, I would not be surprised if the big 4 (PAC, B1G, BigXII, SEC) broke off and did their own thing. In that event, I want NDSU in a league in where we can at least compete with the MAC, MWC, Sun Belt.

Whatever happens, I hope our leadership here in Fargo does whatever is right for the program. I'd like, when I am the age many of you are, to be able to take my kids to see the Bison compete in a playoff tournament.

[A1pigskin]

Bowl games are over rated.