Letter to Dennis Poppe...DI-AA Playoff Chairman

[CaBisonFan]

Right or wrong, I have written this letter to Dennis Poppe at the NCAA. *He is listed as the chair of the DI-AA Playoff system. *If nothing else...it was an hour of good venting. *Here it is:

Dear Mr. Poppe:

I am writing to ask you to consider waiving the probationary period for North Dakota State University's football program effective immediately.

In the 4th year of their probationary period they have defeated DI-A Ball State (which lost to Michigan by one touchdown this past weekend), Georgia Southern, UC Davis, Southern Utah, and Stephen F. Austin....all on the road. *The Ball State TV announcers said that the NDSU front-seven defensive players were stronger and better than Indiana and Purdue's from the previous two weekends. *

Approximately 2 weeks ago NDSU lost by one point to the Minnesota Gophers in the Metrodome...and outgained them heavily. *Minnesota blocked an NDSU field goal attempt to escape with a win. *The Minneapolis media wrote a ton about how badly the Bison outplayed the Gophers, and about how impressed they were with the caliber of athletes on the field. *And 3 years ago, with DII scholarship limitations still affecting the team, the Bison defeated Montana in Missoula.

NDSU is in the highest-rated DI-AA Football Conference in the country presently...that being the Great West. * The Bison are ranked 5th in most DI-AA polls. *They play Cal Poly and South Dakota State University at home in their final two regular season games. *Both are very high caliber teams that will challenge NDSU.

If NDSU should win both of those games, they will be ranked somewhere in the top five by all of the major polls...but they won't be in the playoffs. *It is entirely possible that they will be ranked in the top 2 or 3....and will be at home watching the playoffs that they should be in.

Have you watched any film of North Dakota State? *You really should. *And you should invite the selection committee to watch highlights from the games with Ball State, Minnesota, Georgia Southern, and UC Davis. *

I don't understand the reasoning for the probationary period as it applies to a program like NDSU...especially given the fact that the program is (historically) the most dominant football program in the history of DII.

The NCAA abandoned programs like NDSU by allowing so many smaller programs to have the voting power to lower the scholarship levels to where they are now. *Programs like NDSU should have been granted an immediate transfer into I-AA while this took place. *Stronger programs were not taken care of during this watering-down process. *They were left out to dry...and forced to move up against odds that make most school administrators cringe with political fear...or worse...to remain in a horribly watered-down DII with dozens of new members that simply want to lower the costs...and the competitive bar. *

It was an injustice. *Schools with a rich tradition and the fan base to support it should "not" have to endure a 5-year probationary period...which affects recruiting and fan attitudes. *Still, North Dakota State has brought 10 to 15 thousand people into their state-of-the-art Fargodome, even though a vast majority of the games were meaningless exercises in terms of rivalries and conference significance. *In a playoff situation, approximately 15,000 would sell out the Fargodome. *They could sell 3 or 4 times that amount if the seats were available. *Over 10,000 North Dakota State fans were estimated to be at the Metrodome two weeks ago. * I've heard numbers as high as 20,000. *

North Dakota State deserves a playoff experience...

...now.

Your organization claims to stand up for the student athlete. *In this particular situation, an injustice could be about to happen. *If NDSU runs the table to a 10-1 record, it will be one of the bigger stories during the playoffs. *

And finally, have you read this article from I-AA.org?

http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=81752

Thank you.

Signed
"my name & telephone number"

This is the contact web page for Dennis Poppe.

http://www.ncaa.org/cgi-bin/staffmailform2.pl?id=dpoppe@ncaa.org&name=Dennis+L .+Poppe

[SDbison]

Great Job CABisonFan! I like the approach. Hundreds of Bison fans should do the same. It is BS an upstart team like Florida Atlantic was eligible after 2 years. OK, rules are rules, but this one punishes the student athlete.......something the NCAA loves to say they support. Oh yeah, lets tell student athletes that excel and over achieve that they don't count during their entire time at a transitioning university. The NCAA is mindless. They really only care about the money making bowl teams in DI-A football.
Somehow maybe someone could get a few of the top teams in DI-AA to submit a request for the NCAA to include NDSU in the playoffs (assuming NDSU finishes the season 10-1).

[sambini]

Very well done Ca bison ++++

[Herd_Mentality]

Just remember, 19,000 is a sellout of the FFB...not 15k.

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

NDSU is not going to get into the playoffs and it is going to be an absolute travesty. If NDSU wins their next two games they will almost certainly end the season at #3 in the polls behind #1 Appalachian State and #2 Montana. If NDSU were to come out and beat Cal Poly convincingly they might even jump Montana. Either way, it is going to be bad.

[IowaBisonToo]

Just remember, 19,000 is a sellout of the FFB...not 15k.
I think he meant above and beyond the season ticket holders???????

[Herd_Mentality]

Season ticket holders still have to pay for playoff tickets, so in essence you would start with 0.

[CaBisonFan]

Just remember, 19,000 is a sellout of the FFB...not 15k.

Sorry....I missed that. Got the numbers wrong.

[bison_once]

Nice job CaBisonFan!!! *You made a ton of great points that were supported by facts, not unsubstantiated bias (well maybe a little bias). *The unfortunate reallity is that the NCAA will not lift any type of playoff exemption for the Bison. *We can flood Poppe's inbox with a ton of emails and I don't see any rule reversals coming anytime soon. *However, what could happen is some reconsideration for playoff eligibility with respect to a transitioning school. *This could expidite probation periods for those schools just beginning the process (and I shouldn't have to give names).

It is an absolute shame that we aren't playoff eligible and that it is a 5 yr. probation, but it was the price we were willing to pay to better the program.

[lakesbison]

I wrote 4 different emails from 4 diff addy's..

HE HE> I LOVE THE INTERNET!!

[silkamilkamonico]

NDSU is not going to get into the playoffs and it is going to be an absolute travesty. *If NDSU wins their next two games they will almost certainly end the season at #3 in the polls behind #1 Appalachian State and #2 Montana. *If NDSU were to come out and beat Cal Poly convincingly they might even jump Montana. *Either way, it is going to be bad.


Not only that, but we will have finished undefeated against all of D1AA oppponents.

It will serve as a good debate, but that's about the extent of the argument.

We can write as many letters as we want, and we won't be considered into the playoffs, IMHO.

And unfortunately, we shouldn't.

[CaBisonFan]

Right or wrong, I have written this letter to Dennis Poppe at the NCAA. *He is listed as the chair of the DI-AA Playoff system. *If nothing else...it was an hour of good venting. *Here it is:

Dear Mr. Poppe:

I am writing to ask you to consider waiving the probationary period for North Dakota State University's football program effective immediately.

In the 4th year of their probationary period they have defeated DI-A Ball State (which lost to Michigan by one touchdown this past weekend), Georgia Southern, UC Davis, Southern Utah, and Stephen F. Austin....all on the road. *The Ball State TV announcers said that the NDSU front-seven defensive players were stronger and better than Indiana and Purdue's from the previous two weekends. *

Approximately 2 weeks ago NDSU lost by one point to the Minnesota Gophers in the Metrodome...and outgained them heavily. *Minnesota blocked an NDSU field goal attempt to escape with a win. *The Minneapolis media wrote a ton about how badly the Bison outplayed the Gophers, and about how impressed they were with the caliber of athletes on the field. *And 3 years ago, with DII scholarship limitations still affecting the team, the Bison defeated Montana in Missoula.

NDSU is in the highest-rated DI-AA Football Conference in the country presently...that being the Great West. * The Bison are ranked 5th in most DI-AA polls. *They play Cal Poly and South Dakota State University at home in their final two regular season games. *Both are very high caliber teams that will challenge NDSU.

If NDSU should win both of those games, they will be ranked somewhere in the top five by all of the major polls...but they won't be in the playoffs. *It is entirely possible that they will be ranked in the top 2 or 3....and will be at home watching the playoffs that they should be in.

Have you watched any film of North Dakota State? *You really should. *And you should invite the selection committee to watch highlights from the games with Ball State, Minnesota, Georgia Southern, and UC Davis. *

I don't understand the reasoning for the probationary period as it applies to a program like NDSU...especially given the fact that the program is (historically) the most dominant football program in the history of DII.

The NCAA abandoned programs like NDSU by allowing so many smaller programs to have the voting power to lower the scholarship levels to where they are now. *Programs like NDSU should have been granted an immediate transfer into I-AA while this took place. *Stronger programs were not taken care of during this watering-down process. *They were left out to dry...and forced to move up against odds that make most school administrators cringe with political fear...or worse...to remain in a horribly watered-down DII with dozens of new members that simply want to lower the costs...and the competitive bar. *

It was an injustice. *Schools with a rich tradition and the fan base to support it should "not" have to endure a 5-year probationary period...which affects recruiting and fan attitudes. *Still, North Dakota State has brought 10 to 15 thousand people into their state-of-the-art Fargodome, even though a vast majority of the games were meaningless exercises in terms of rivalries and conference significance. *In a playoff situation, approximately 15,000 would sell out the Fargodome. *They could sell 3 or 4 times that amount if the seats were available. *Over 10,000 North Dakota State fans were estimated to be at the Metrodome two weeks ago. * I've heard numbers as high as 20,000. *

North Dakota State deserves a playoff experience...

...now.

Your organization claims to stand up for the student athlete. *In this particular situation, an injustice could be about to happen. *If NDSU runs the table to a 10-1 record, it will be one of the bigger stories during the playoffs. *

And finally, have you read this article from I-AA.org?

http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=81752

Thank you.

Signed
"my name & telephone number"

This is the contact web page for Dennis Poppe.

http://www.ncaa.org/cgi-bin/staffmailform2.pl?id=dpoppe@ncaa.org&name=Dennis+L .+Poppe

Addition:

I don't expect the NCAA to change anything.....but I do think that they deserve to at least hear about this injustice. *They just don't seem to get it. *They deserve a flood of emails concerning what I wrote....in my opinion. *SU has been taken to the cleaners for the last 10 or 15 years. *And the injustice continues. *Yes....we signed on for the 5 year probation period....but we really didn't have a choice....did we? *The NCAA said, "you have a choice of a 5 year probation or a 5 year probation....otherwise you can continue to waddle in the division and conference that we ruined for you."

Wow...."thank you very much....we bow to the NCAA's mountain of wisdom."

[bisonaudit]

Addition:

I don't expect the NCAA to change anything.....but I do think that they deserve to at least hear about this injustice. *They just don't seem to get it. *They deserve a flood of emails concerning what I wrote....in my opinion. *SU has been taken to the cleaners for the last 10 or 15 years. *And the injustice continues. *Yes....we signed on for the 5 year probation period....but we really didn't have a choice....did we? *The NCAA said, "you have a choice of a 5 year probation or a 5 year probation....otherwise you can continue to waddle in the division and conference that we ruined for you."

Wow...."thank you very much....we bow to the NCAA's mountain of wisdom."



++++++++++

or however you agree whole heartedly in message board land.

[IowaBison]

It's the rules, rules we knew about when we moved.

You can email, call, try to telecommunicate with whomever you want, the rules will not change.

It is not up to one person or one committee the entire NCAA DI membership would have to vote to change the rule.

[bisonaudit]

I'm just happy we're in a position to be upset about it.

4 years ago did anybody think we'd be where we are now?

The NCAA will say 'no' but maybe, just maybe, if we make enough noise and no one gets busted for steriods in the next three weeks Bob Lehy will need a story for a Sunday morning Outside the Lines.

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm just happy we're in a position to be upset about it.

4 years ago did anybody think we'd be where we are now?

The NCAA will say 'no' but maybe, just maybe, if we make enough noise and no one gets busted for steriods in the next three weeks Bob Lehy will need a story for a Sunday morning Outside the Lines.


It is upsetting how the rule is there. It punishes teams like NDSU who have a legit argument for being one of the best teams in all of D1AA.

But at the same time, it is a rule that we agreed to obide by when we made the move.

I think it's cool that people want to write letters, and I think NDSU deserves the argument. I just don't think the NCAA should make exceptions for anybody, when there are rules that are clearly defined and set in stone.

[IowaBison]

*********

The NCAA cannot change the rule at this time for this year.


*********

[Bisonguy]

Playing the "we're good enough, we're ranked highly in the polls" card will not work.



NDSU will have to show compliance in ALL aspects of DI, and more than likely will have to run through the certification process.

[CaBisonFan]

It's the rules, rules we knew about when we moved.

You can email, call, try to telecommunicate with whomever you want, the rules will not change. *

It is not up to one person or one committee the entire NCAA DI membership would have to vote to change the rule. *

That is correct. We can communicate. The attempt is to plant a seed at a lower level. Get it? Maybe the seed would grow into a discussion at some level concerning next year. This is not new information.

[lakesbison]

I am on this issue big time.

Look for a IN-DEPTH Story by me and then it will be handed off to some "FARGO and MPLS MEDIA!!"

Im gonna get some legs behind this, MAYBE IT COULD CHANGE NEXT YEAR'S FATE!!!

Was Florida Atlantic given a 2 year exception.

[CaBisonFan]

I'm just happy we're in a position to be upset about it.

4 years ago did anybody think we'd be where we are now?

The NCAA will say 'no' but maybe, just maybe, if we make enough noise and no one gets busted for steriods in the next three weeks Bob Lehy will need a story for a Sunday morning Outside the Lines.


BINGO !!!!!!!! *

You understand. *If not for this year...maybe next. *If there's no noise, the NCAA won't even think about it. *19,000 fans creating a huge revenue pool is what talks to these people. *They need to hear from us before they can know about it....because they really don't care about DI-AA. *But if we stink up the room with enough emails...they might actually talk about it around a coffee table....which 'could' lead to a discussion about waiving the rule for next year....in other words, reducing the 5-year probation for programs that display progress like NDSU has.

Thanks.

[lakesbison]

wednesday night.

scott from FOX TV>. called dennis poppe, and his associate.. they said they received emails..

the fox tv report said "NDSU fans to petition the ncaa for d1aa playoffs"


they guy said "no, they will not change the rules"

also he said something totally idiotic about the ncaa and Austin Shauer went off.. and bascially said.. the ncaa is Nazism... ha ha

[IowaBisonToo]

Lakes - can you go a little more in depth or at least give us a link where we could see/hear this? Sucks not living in Fargo when it comes to this type of thing.

[lakesbison]

Sorry, KVRR-FOX TV is still living in the stone ages, dont even have a website...

Im sure others heard the story, it was quite amusing that Scott actually tracked the NCAA guy down, I told him about this THREAD on bisonville and he just called out there.


u can email sports@kvrr.com if you want more info.

[lakesbison]

heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710

[02Bison]

heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. *As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. *The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710

How's that NAZIlike? Its time to get real and take off your Bison blinders lakes....

[SDbison]

heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. *As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. *The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.
Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710
If this self study had certain minimum standards and a university was compliant 3 years after start of the transition then why make them go 5 years. As I have said 100 times already, the NCAA wants a one size fits all approach so that it is easiest for them. The injustice is preventing a rare team and its athletes from competing in championships when they DESERVE IT and DID NOTHING WRONG to keep themselves out of the competition. SANCTIONS are one thing, STUPIDITY on behalf of the NCAA is another. You simpletons can say a rule is a rule as long as you want, but it does not make it right. I applaud anyone here who has enough team spirit, guts and motivation to write and request the stupidity by the NCAA come to an end. You cannot even compare this issue to UND wanting to change the entire divisional structure. I feel sorry for all you conformists out there who defend the NCAA rule and ridicule others who want an overly punitive rule to be changed. So what if the change doesn't help NDSU before the 5 years are done. The goal is to fix a broken system.

[SDbison]

heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. *As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. *The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710

How's that NAZIlike? Its time to get real and take off your Bison blinders lakes.... *

He is entitled to his opinion and it was not directed at any of posters on here 02bison. Quit trying to censure people. If you want to defend the actions of the NCAA back it up with reasons why you believe it is not Nazilike instead of just going after the poster.

[IowaBison]

Here's the defense.

The NCAA is a membership drive organization that had a finalized process which NDSU agreed to prior to its move.

The relatively success of any program at NDSU or any other institution making the transition is moot.


Instead of belittling the NCAA, why not expend that same energy publicly extolling the accomplishments of the team, especially its seniors?

[broke_back_mnt]

I thought the NCAA response was reasonable and certainly expected. * Certainly I harbor no anger or frustration toward them for supporting a process that allows the entire university to make the move over a reasonable period of time in an orderly fashion. *

If you look past our football record we are not ready. *We havent even met our Team Makers goal yet. *Several of our programs are not competitive, we havent even been voted in as members yet. *How can a school that isnt even a member of Division 1 participate in their playoffs? *Might as well push for Grand Valley State to get in. *

For those willing to draw battle lines John Mellencamp said it pretty well,

"I fought authority, authority always wins!" * 8-)

We have 2 games coming up that have all the drama of playoff games. *Lets enjoy them! *Go BISON!

[Ivy]

heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. *As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. *The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710


This one of the reasons that teams go through in-depth studies when making a decision to re-classify and do not take the move lightly. *The response from the NCAA was appropriate and I'm impressed they actually wrote back. *Being part of the NCAA is a privilege not a right and we must follow the rules they set. *I agree....take off your blinders Lakes.

[SDbison]

I thought the NCAA response was reasonable and certainly expected. * Certainly I harbor no anger or frustration toward them for supporting a process that allows the entire university to make the move over a reasonable period of time in an orderly fashion. *

If you look past our football record we are not ready. *We havent even met our Team Makers goal yet. *Several of our programs are not competitive, we havent even been voted in as members yet. *How can a school that isnt even a member of Division 1 participate in their playoffs? *Might as well push for Grand Valley State to get in. *

For those willing to draw battle lines John Mellencamp said it pretty well,

"I fought authority, authority always wins!" * 8-)

We have 2 games coming up that have all the drama of playoff games. *Lets enjoy them! *Go BISON!
Don't worry, I will enjoy the games. At the same time I will work to correct the injustice. I am sure in Nazi Germany all the manipulated masses felt Hitler had all the right rules too.
BTW, I just wrote out another $100 check to NDSU athletics a week ago on top of my teammakers donation. What have you done?

[broke_back_mnt]

$500 to the College of Business (about 8 yrs running), $250 to Team Makers since 1992 plus season tickets. *Rented a suite for $2,500. *$150 to the athletic foundation first year only. * *:)

Ps. *I forgot about the Bjornson Scholarship fund. *$100/year. *All of you can give a tax free donation to that fund. *It supports students studying pre-veterinary medicine of related fields of study.

Im not a big donor but Im steady. Hope nobody ever asks that question again! :P

[IowaBison]

with all due respect, SDBison, could you use the term fascist instead of Nazi.

Nazi Germany was directly responsible for the death of millions. You might not like the NCAA or the current situation facing the Bison, but referring to an organization OF WHICH NDSU IS A MEMBER as Nazi is wrong on so many levels.

[IowaBison]

BTW, I just wrote out another $100 check to NDSU athletics a week ago on top of my teammakers donation. What have you done?

:-? :-? :-?


my balls weigh 6 lbs. 7 ozs. weighed 'em last night.

[SDbison]

I thought the NCAA response was reasonable and certainly expected. * Certainly I harbor no anger or frustration toward them for supporting a process that allows the entire university to make the move over a reasonable period of time in an orderly fashion.
If you look past our football record we are not ready. *We havent even met our Team Makers goal yet. *Several of our programs are not competitive, we havent even been voted in as members yet. *How can a school that isnt even a member of Division 1 participate in their playoffs? *Might as well push for Grand Valley State to get in. *

For those willing to draw battle lines John Mellencamp said it pretty well,

"I fought authority, authority always wins!" * 8-)

We have 2 games coming up that have all the drama of playoff games. *Lets enjoy them! *Go BISON!
JBB, since you don't seem to understand what I have said in 10 + posts I will make it simple for you:
Do you brush you teeth for 10 minutes if you have completed all the cleaning that is more than necessary in 2 minutes?
Do you mow your yard 3 times over when the grass was perfectly cut after the first pass?
Maybe this one is more relevant:
If you finished your undergraduate degree in four years how would you like it if the university did not recognize your education and held back on giving you your diploma for 12 years.
Do you get it now? Need more examples of imposing ridiculous and unnecessary time and actions?

[broke_back_mnt]

Yea I get it. Your a hot head.

Sorry, but I wont engage you on this again. Your point is made but to me it is not valid.

[SDbison]

BTW, I just wrote out another $100 check to NDSU athletics a week ago on top of my teammakers donation. *What have you done?

:-? :-? :-?


my balls weigh 6 lbs. 7 ozs. *weighed 'em last night.



I never asked anything about the condition of your balls, but obviously you have none.

[SDbison]

Yea I get it. *Your a hot head. *

Sorry, but I wont engage you on this again. *Your point is made but to me it is not valid.
Satisfy your simple self.

[SDbison]

Yea I get it. *Your a hot head. *

Sorry, but I wont engage you on this again. *Your point is made but to me it is not valid.
Call me a hot head, but I think I would kick your butt in a debate.

[IowaBison]

BTW, I just wrote out another $100 check to NDSU athletics a week ago on top of my teammakers donation. What have you done?

:-? :-? :-?


my balls weigh 6 lbs. 7 ozs. weighed 'em last night.



I never asked anything about the condition of your balls, but obviously you have none.


Although you weren't there to witness it, I just pissed over both lanes of Centennial Boulevard, must have been at least 45 feet. Damned if a bird didn't fly into the stream and lose most of his feathers.....

[SDbison]

with all due respect, SDBison, could you use the term fascist instead of Nazi.

Nazi Germany was directly responsible for the death of millions. *You might not like the NCAA or the current situation facing the Bison, but referring to an organization OF WHICH NDSU IS A MEMBER as Nazi is wrong on so many levels.
I didn't call the NCAA Nazi's, I just gave an example on how fools can start believing that rules by themselves are reason to follow. Sometimes rules need to be questioned. Quit taking things out of context. BTW, I do believe the dome security folks are a bit Nazi like, and I don't buy into political correctness either. So I will call a spade, a spade, when I deem appropriate.

[Bison_Dan]

BTW, I just wrote out another $100 check to NDSU athletics a week ago on top of my teammakers donation. *What have you done?

:-? :-? :-?


my balls weigh 6 lbs. 7 ozs. *weighed 'em last night.



I never asked anything about the condition of your balls, but obviously you have none.


Although you weren't there to witness it, I just pissed over both lanes of Centennial Boulevard, must have been at least 45 feet. *Damned if a bird didn't fly into the stream and lose most of his feathers.....

Wish I could do that - It's the shits getting old. :'(

[SDbison]

BTW, I just wrote out another $100 check to NDSU athletics a week ago on top of my teammakers donation. *What have you done?

:-? :-? :-?


my balls weigh 6 lbs. 7 ozs. *weighed 'em last night.



I never asked anything about the condition of your balls, but obviously you have none.


Although you weren't there to witness it, I just pissed over both lanes of Centennial Boulevard, must have been at least 45 feet. *Damned if a bird didn't fly into the stream and lose most of his feathers.....
And your meaningless point is? Just like all your other comments regarding this topic I am sure.

[IowaBison]

The point is: an individual's financial contributions, testicle size, or urination range have no impact on the quality of his argument.

[Leonardite]

with all due respect, SDBison, could you use the term fascist instead of Nazi.

Nazi Germany was directly responsible for the death of millions. *You might not like the NCAA or the current situation facing the Bison, but referring to an organization OF WHICH NDSU IS A MEMBER as Nazi is wrong on so many levels.
I didn't call the NCAA Nazi's, I just gave an example on how fools can start believing that rules by themselves are reason to follow. *Sometimes rules need to be questioned. *Quit taking things out of context. *BTW, I do believe the dome security folks are a bit Nazi like, and I don't buy into political correctness either. *So I will call a spade, a spade, when I deem appropriate.

When security staff at a football stadium can be "appropriately" compared to the Nazi party, something is very wrong. *It has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with historical context. *The abundant comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis these days have pretty much removed all of the stigma that should rightfully accompany those names. *To the next generation, Hitler will be a cartoon character and Nazi will be a meaningless adjective. *Sad.

[/soapbox]

[IowaBison]

+++

[Paulie]

I'm not sure how this is an "injustice." You accept the rules when you choose to move up. I think it's too indicative of today's society when the "victim" role is played like this. It's more dignified to win all your games and let that prove your point instead of whining about how you're getting screwed.

The same goes for Central Arkansas who think they should get special treatment because they think they will be competitive right away.

If the risk of missing the playoffs was not worth the chance then don't move up.

Just my opinion looking at it objectively.

[lakesbison]

point is.

D1AA football playoffs isnt about the money.

I thought they would be different and objective.

obviously, they dont care, they dont care.

[Bisonguy]

heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710

Not suprising. Like I stated earlier, the competitiveness of the football team is not the issue, it's the DI compliance and certification.

[BisonSig]

+++++++

[SDbison]

heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. *As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. *The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710

Not suprising. Like I stated earlier, the competitiveness of the football team is not the issue, it's the DI compliance and certification.

So what takes so damn long? Somebody please state why five F'ing years are required, needed or whatever. As for Paulie, the injustice is student athletes that make an outstanding effort and who can never appear in the playoffs due to shortsighted NCAA thinking. Most on this message board have a real tough time thinking outside the box. Duh.

[semobison]

I think 5 years is too damn long too, but some people need to learn to respect other peoples opinion!

[No_Skill]

Can't we all just get along? :( :-[ :-/ :'( :-?

[Bison7925]

I think 5 years is too damn long too, but *some people need to learn to respect other peoples opinion!

++++++++++++

[broke_back_mnt]

Hey SD, Im simple and your a hot head. So what? We are all part of Bisonville, and I didn't come here to fight you. I came here to party with you, and everybody else too. I don't mind it getting intense. But on this one we don't agree. Its not about me, or you. There are many separate realities. Ill see you at the tailgate. GO BISON!!! 8-)

[No_Skill]

Hey SD, Im simple and your a hot head. *So what? *We are all part of Bisonville, and I didn't come here to fight you. *I came here to party with you, and everybody else too. *I don't mind it getting intense. *But on this one we don't agree. *Its not about me, or you. *There are many separate realities. *Ill see you at the tailgate. *GO BISON!!! * 8-)

Ahhh, yes teamwork. That's what I like to see.

[TransAmBison]

Hey SD, Im simple and your a hot head. *So what? *We are all part of Bisonville, and I didn't come here to fight you. *I came here to party with you, and everybody else too. *I don't mind it getting intense. *But on this one we don't agree. *Its not about me, or you. *There are many separate realities. *Ill see you at the tailgate. *GO BISON!!! * 8-)
Good job...

[Bisonfan1]

I NOW fully understand the D-IAA certification and classification period of 5 years. The question is, is NDSU, NOW compliant under 5 years ? If so, then why not petition the NCAA, write letters etc. for a playoff appearance? Has any other DII team moving up to DIAA been this succesful in this short of time? If NDSU has ALLREADY met the criteria, then why not at least try to do something about it. I unfortunetely do not have the time to research all this. I do applaude the efforts of those who are trying their best to give these young men a shot at the playoffs. I used to work in a job that had a policy manual/or set of rules have you, 10 inches thick that were changed frequently as differant scenerios presented themselves. Also traffic and criminal laws are changed every time the legislature meets, or a certain set of rules/laws. I dont feel that anyone trying to plant a seed at the NCAA is wasting their time at all, and again, thank-you. In the mean time, take care of POLY and SDSU and strengthen the position here.

[imabison]

I NOW fully understand the D-IAA certification and classification period of 5 years. The question is, is NDSU, NOW compliant under 5 years ? If so, then why not petition the NCAA, write letters etc. for a playoff appearance? Has any other DII team moving up to DIAA been this succesful in this short of time? If NDSU has ALLREADY met the criteria, then why not at least try to do something about it. I unfortunetely do not have the time to research all this. I do applaude the efforts of those who are trying their best to give these young men a shot at the playoffs. I used to work in a job that had a policy manual/or set of rules have you, 10 inches thick that were changed frequently as differant scenerios presented themselves. Also traffic and criminal laws are changed every time the legislature meets, or a certain set of rules/laws. I dont feel that anyone trying to plant a seed at the NCAA is wasting their time at all, and again, thank-you. In the mean time, take care of POLY and SDSU and strengthen the position here.

NSDU is in the process of doing the compliance certification or whatever it is called. That is a one year process.

[02Bison]

Yea I get it. *Your a hot head. *

Sorry, but I wont engage you on this again. *Your point is made but to me it is not valid.

Well said JBB! I'm with you on this one!

[TheBisonator]

Soooooo anyway, how bout those rainbow suspenders?? Pretty cool way to keep your pants up, eh??

[Tatanka]

Soooooo anyway, how bout those rainbow suspenders?? Pretty cool way to keep your pants up, eh??
Well, yes, they certainly are.

:-?


Please, just make this thread
http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/stop.jpg

[lakesbison]

DAM I WISH NDSU WAS IN THE PLAYOFFS AFTER READING EVERYONE"S REASONS IN HERE

[Bisonfan1]

Well its not going to happen this year, or next year for that matter. Keep winning, keep the top 5 rank going in 2007, and in 2008 - LOOK OUT PLAYOFF"S - BE PREPARED TO BE TRAMPLED BY THE THUNDERING HERD !!!

[Hammerhead]

So when are they going to bump the University of Miami (Fla.) down to Division II??? It's hard to beleive the NCAA really cares about academic integrity when they force basketball players to miss weeks of school for March Madness. Of course, the big boy football school players can't miss class so we have the BS division where the winner is voted on just like in figure skating. >:(


heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....

... The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710

[99Bison]

Hey SD, Im simple and your a hot head. So what? We are all part of Bisonville, and I didn't come here to fight you. I came here to party with you, and everybody else too. I don't mind it getting intense. But on this one we don't agree. Its not about me, or you. There are many separate realities. Ill see you at the tailgate. GO BISON!!! 8-)

Ahhh, yes teamwork. That's what I like to see.

Yeah goat, yeah!

[CaBisonFan]

I'm not sure how this is an "injustice." *You accept the rules when you choose to move up. *I think it's too indicative of today's society when the "victim" role is played like this. *It's more dignified to win all your games and let that prove your point instead of whining about how you're getting screwed. *

The same goes for Central Arkansas who think they should get special treatment because they think they will be competitive right away. *

If the risk of missing the playoffs was not worth the chance then don't move up. *

Just my opinion looking at it objectively.

We were given 3 choices:

1. *Accept the 5 year probation

2. *Accept the 5 year probation

3. *Stay in the division that we destroyed.

[CaBisonFan]

point is.

D1AA football playoffs isnt about the money.

I thought they would be different and objective.

obviously, they dont care, they dont care.

We were given 3 choices by the ncaa:

1. *Accept the 5 year probation

2. *Accept the 5 year probation

3. *Stay in the division that we destroyed

[CaBisonFan]

I NOW fully understand the D-IAA certification and classification period of 5 years. The question is, is NDSU, NOW compliant under 5 years ? If so, then why not petition the NCAA, write letters etc. for a playoff appearance? Has any other DII team moving up to DIAA been this succesful in this short of time? If NDSU has ALLREADY met the criteria, then why not at least try to do something about it. I unfortunetely do not have the time to research all this. I do applaude the efforts of those who are trying their best to give these young men a shot at the playoffs. I used to work in a job that had a policy manual/or set of rules have you, 10 inches thick that were changed frequently as differant scenerios presented themselves. Also traffic and criminal laws are changed every time the legislature meets, or a certain set of rules/laws. I dont feel that anyone trying to plant a seed at the NCAA is wasting their time at all, and again, thank-you. In the mean time, take care of POLY and SDSU and strengthen the position here.

NSDU is in the process of doing the compliance certification or whatever it is called. *That is a one year process.



point is.

D1AA football playoffs isnt about the money.

I thought they would be different and objective.

obviously, they dont care, they dont care.

We were given 3 choices by the ncaa:

1. *Accept the 5 year probation

2. *Accept the 5 year probation

3. *Stay in the division that we destroyed

[CaBisonFan]

heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. *As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. *The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710


This one of the reasons that teams go through in-depth studies when making a decision to re-classify and do not take the move lightly. *The response from the NCAA was appropriate and I'm impressed they actually wrote back. *Being part of the NCAA is a privilege not a right and we must follow the rules they set. *I agree....take off your blinders Lakes.



I NOW fully understand the D-IAA certification and classification period of 5 years. The question is, is NDSU, NOW compliant under 5 years ? If so, then why not petition the NCAA, write letters etc. for a playoff appearance? Has any other DII team moving up to DIAA been this succesful in this short of time? If NDSU has ALLREADY met the criteria, then why not at least try to do something about it. I unfortunetely do not have the time to research all this. I do applaude the efforts of those who are trying their best to give these young men a shot at the playoffs. I used to work in a job that had a policy manual/or set of rules have you, 10 inches thick that were changed frequently as differant scenerios presented themselves. Also traffic and criminal laws are changed every time the legislature meets, or a certain set of rules/laws. I dont feel that anyone trying to plant a seed at the NCAA is wasting their time at all, and again, thank-you. In the mean time, take care of POLY and SDSU and strengthen the position here.

NSDU is in the process of doing the compliance certification or whatever it is called. That is a one year process.



point is.

D1AA football playoffs isnt about the money.

I thought they would be different and objective.

obviously, they dont care, they dont care.

We were given 3 choices by the ncaa:

1. Accept the 5 year probation

2. Accept the 5 year probation

3. Stay in the division that we destroyed

[CaBisonFan]

I'm just happy we're in a position to be upset about it.

4 years ago did anybody think we'd be where we are now?

The NCAA will say 'no' but maybe, just maybe, if we make enough noise and no one gets busted for steriods in the next three weeks Bob Lehy will need a story for a Sunday morning Outside the Lines.


It is upsetting how the rule is there. *It punishes teams like NDSU who have a legit argument for being one of the best teams in all of D1AA.

But at the same time, it is a rule that we agreed to obide by when we made the move.

I think it's cool that people want to write letters, and I think NDSU deserves the argument. *I just don't think the NCAA should make exceptions for anybody, when there are rules that are clearly defined and set in stone.



heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710


This one of the reasons that teams go through in-depth studies when making a decision to re-classify and do not take the move lightly. The response from the NCAA was appropriate and I'm impressed they actually wrote back. Being part of the NCAA is a privilege not a right and we must follow the rules they set. I agree....take off your blinders Lakes.



I NOW fully understand the D-IAA certification and classification period of 5 years. The question is, is NDSU, NOW compliant under 5 years ? If so, then why not petition the NCAA, write letters etc. for a playoff appearance? Has any other DII team moving up to DIAA been this succesful in this short of time? If NDSU has ALLREADY met the criteria, then why not at least try to do something about it. I unfortunetely do not have the time to research all this. I do applaude the efforts of those who are trying their best to give these young men a shot at the playoffs. I used to work in a job that had a policy manual/or set of rules have you, 10 inches thick that were changed frequently as differant scenerios presented themselves. Also traffic and criminal laws are changed every time the legislature meets, or a certain set of rules/laws. I dont feel that anyone trying to plant a seed at the NCAA is wasting their time at all, and again, thank-you. In the mean time, take care of POLY and SDSU and strengthen the position here.

NSDU is in the process of doing the compliance certification or whatever it is called. That is a one year process.



point is.

D1AA football playoffs isnt about the money.

I thought they would be different and objective.

obviously, they dont care, they dont care.

We were given 3 choices by the ncaa:

1. Accept the 5 year probation

2. Accept the 5 year probation

3. Stay in the division that we destroyed

[CaBisonFan]

It's the rules, rules we knew about when we moved.

You can email, call, try to telecommunicate with whomever you want, the rules will not change. *

It is not up to one person or one committee the entire NCAA DI membership would have to vote to change the rule. *



I'm just happy we're in a position to be upset about it.

4 years ago did anybody think we'd be where we are now?

The NCAA will say 'no' but maybe, just maybe, if we make enough noise and no one gets busted for steriods in the next three weeks Bob Lehy will need a story for a Sunday morning Outside the Lines.


It is upsetting how the rule is there. It punishes teams like NDSU who have a legit argument for being one of the best teams in all of D1AA.

But at the same time, it is a rule that we agreed to obide by when we made the move.

I think it's cool that people want to write letters, and I think NDSU deserves the argument. I just don't think the NCAA should make exceptions for anybody, when there are rules that are clearly defined and set in stone.



heres the following.. NAZIlike bull#ht....


Lakesbison

The reclassification of NDSU to Division I is an institutional move -
not simply about the football program. As such, the institution must
fulfill every aspect of the multi-year reclassification process.
On-field competitiveness is not the sole criteria for reclassifying to a
Division I athletics program. The reclassification process requires an
exhaustive athletics certification self-study by the institution that
examines academic integrity, institutional control, as well as equity
and student-athlete well-being.

Thank you for your support of college football.

Damani J. Leech
NCAA
Director for Baseball and Football
PO Box 6222
Indianapolis, IN 46206-6222
phone: 317-917-6222
fax: 317-917-6710


This one of the reasons that teams go through in-depth studies when making a decision to re-classify and do not take the move lightly. The response from the NCAA was appropriate and I'm impressed they actually wrote back. Being part of the NCAA is a privilege not a right and we must follow the rules they set. I agree....take off your blinders Lakes.



I NOW fully understand the D-IAA certification and classification period of 5 years. The question is, is NDSU, NOW compliant under 5 years ? If so, then why not petition the NCAA, write letters etc. for a playoff appearance? Has any other DII team moving up to DIAA been this succesful in this short of time? If NDSU has ALLREADY met the criteria, then why not at least try to do something about it. I unfortunetely do not have the time to research all this. I do applaude the efforts of those who are trying their best to give these young men a shot at the playoffs. I used to work in a job that had a policy manual/or set of rules have you, 10 inches thick that were changed frequently as differant scenerios presented themselves. Also traffic and criminal laws are changed every time the legislature meets, or a certain set of rules/laws. I dont feel that anyone trying to plant a seed at the NCAA is wasting their time at all, and again, thank-you. In the mean time, take care of POLY and SDSU and strengthen the position here.

NSDU is in the process of doing the compliance certification or whatever it is called. That is a one year process.



point is.

D1AA football playoffs isnt about the money.

I thought they would be different and objective.

obviously, they dont care, they dont care.

We were given 3 choices by the ncaa:

1. Accept the 5 year probation

2. Accept the 5 year probation

3. Stay in the division that we destroyed

[cabis]

I'm not sure how this is an "injustice." *You accept the rules when you choose to move up. *I think it's too indicative of today's society when the "victim" role is played like this. *It's more dignified to win all your games and let that prove your point instead of whining about how you're getting screwed. *

The same goes for Central Arkansas who think they should get special treatment because they think they will be competitive right away. *

If the risk of missing the playoffs was not worth the chance then don't move up. *

Just my opinion looking at it objectively.

We were given 3 choices:

1. *Accept the 5 year probation

2. *Accept the 5 year probation

3. *Stay in the division that we destroyed.
Life is full of important choices and you seem to be a history buff and a strong proponent of Bison tradition, so I would like to point out a few more choices than the three you mention. When Div 1-A was formed we had the opportunity to go as a charter member with the Montana schools. We chose not to and stayed in Div 2. The result of that choice was 5 national championships in the 80's and 90. During the 90's the destruction of Div 2 that you refer to was taking place. At any time during this period we could have chosen to move to D1 with only a two year hiatus but again chose not to move. During this period we won all the national championships with Amy's basketball teams. All NCAA rule changes take at least a year to come into effect and the change to the five year transition is no exception. When the 5 year plan was introduced again NDSU chose not to move up befor it came into effect. Several schools did, including our future conference mate IPFW who we are all aware was grandfathered in as a core institution by pulling the trigger one year before we did. Finally, when we did make the decision to transition to Division 1 we chose to extend our exploratory period by one year which in effect extended our transitional period by one year. Had we not made that choice we would be playoff eligible in all sports next year, not 2008.
I am sure we can make all kinds of arguments for and against the choices NDSU has made over the years but the fact remains that all the choices were calculated by the people in charge at the time to be in the best interest of NDSU. Should we have moved with the Montana schools and possibly forgone the glory years of the 80's in football? Should we have moved in the early 90's and forgone the dominance of womens basketball? Should we have moved in the early 2000's and been faced with the possibility of 13 years of purgatory for basketball?
All choices that could have been made but weren't for better or worse.
I for one am proud that NDSU finally made the choice to move to Division 1. Under the rules of the day. No quarters asked none given. As the leading institution in the Dakotas. Period.

[CaBisonFan]

It's the rules, rules we knew about when we moved.

You can email, call, try to telecommunicate with whomever you want, the rules will not change. *

It is not up to one person or one committee the entire NCAA DI membership would have to vote to change the rule. *

The rules are not for the institutions. They are not equitable in terms of the past requirements. And they're stupid. Administrative concerns can be handled 'while' the team and its players are allowed to fully participate. It's administrative and doesn't apply to the game.

[CaBisonFan]

It's the rules, rules we knew about when we moved.

You can email, call, try to telecommunicate with whomever you want, the rules will not change. *

It is not up to one person or one committee the entire NCAA DI membership would have to vote to change the rule. *

[CaBisonFan]

OK....so there are rules that we accepted. Right.

It's my belief that the rules are inequitable in regard to how other members of DI-AA were treated. The rules are for the institutions and administrative concerns. The players should be able to play their schedule in the most meaningful way, while the administrators of the ncaa and the schools dabble over details.

It is clear that NDSU is well ahead of schedule both administratively and on the field. The 5th year should be waived. Minds can be changed. People can influence institutions like the ncaa. I'd like to see a constant stream of letters and emails sent to the ncaa to remind them of the progress at NDSU.

And as I've written many times...we were given three choices.

1. Accept the 5 year probation.

2. Accept the 5 year probation.

3. Stay in the division that the ncaa ruined.

Juggernauts like NDSU with a proven record, on many levels, should not be give the above 3 choices. The ncaa abandoned programs like SU.

[RodentiaX1]

The ncaa abandoned programs like SU.

If anyone abandoned anyone, the Division II member schools did it to themselves by placing no obstacles to moving to D-II. It wasn't a secret NCAA cabal that allowed D-II to get watered down, it was the D-II member schools.

I don't think that the watering down of D-II will be at all effective is getting the D-I membership to change the rules on playoff elligibility. Most of them are likely to percieve strict membership rules as a means of avoiding watering down D-I.

I think a good angle in lobbying the NCAA is to focus on what is going on off the field. A clean, solid program, financially and academically might persude some of the D-I member schools to waive the transition requirements.