Offensive linemen question

[td577]

I have had this question for a long time now and was curious as to what others thought. In most games, the Bison are running the play clock down before the snap in the second half. Sometimes they are lining up with 15-20 seconds left on the play clock. Do the linemen care that they are in their three point stance for 12-18 seconds on every play? I would think it would be easier on them to stay standing until 8 seconds or so. Just curious. I would think if there was an issue, coaches would change the way they do business.


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[56BISON73]

I have had this question for a long time now and was curious as to what others thought. In most games, the Bison are running the play clock down before the snap in the second half. Sometimes they are lining up with 15-20 seconds left on the play clock. Do the linemen care that they are in their three point stance for 12-18 seconds on every play? I would think it would be easier on them to stay standing until 8 seconds or so. Just curious. I would think if there was an issue, coaches would change the way they do business.




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With the o-line set the d-line usually has to set its defense as well. This gives brock time to read the defense and the o-line time to read the d as well. Audibles and line calls are made or changed during that time. Plus its also an opportunity to either have the d-line to jump and the line backers to show blitz.

[Bison4ever56]

I'm 100% sure Coach Kramer has the guys in shape enough to handle it

[JustinTyem]

With the o-line set the d-line usually has to set its defense as well. This gives brock time to read the defense and the o-line time to read the d as well. Audibles and line calls are made or changed during that time. Plus its also an opportunity to either have the d-line to jump and the line backers to show blitz.I disagree,The oline doesnt have to get in a 3 point stance to help read the defense . Why not just set like the tackles??? It would save more energy and save their backs.

[1998braves64]

as long as qb doesn't bark out too many signals change too many things shouldn't be a problem, playing O line in HS it wasn't being in the 3 point stance that was issue. Having QB be consistent in their signal cadence (and not randomly without telling his teammates he's going to do a hardcount) that causes issues with linemen wanting to jump. At least that was my experience? Didn't play much though so I would differ to PL on this! :)

Should add what PL said once Linemen set, the D has to set up their D to what they think is coming so that is the reason for doing it so the QB can tell what's coming, the blitzing players usually start getting antsy and sometimes show their hand before the ball is snapped.

[1998braves64]

I disagree,The oline doesnt have to get in a 3 point stance to help read the defense . Why not just set like the tackles??? It would save more energy and save their backs.

As good of shape these guys should be in it wouldn't cause hardly any energy loss or hurt their backs... blocking a rushing defender is going to put more strain on their back than a 3 point stance... If you get a back problem it can be an issue but then it's going to be ultimately way harder for them to even block at that point. But technically a lineman doesn't need to go 3 point stance to be set they just have to be set for x time (1 sec??) before the ball is snapped and once they assume the "set" stance they cannot move.

[56BISON73]

I disagree,The oline doesnt have to get in a 3 point stance to help read the defense . Why not just set like the tackles??? It would save more energy and save their backs.

Originally Posted by td577 View Post
I have had this question for a long time now and was curious as to what others thought. In most games, the Bison are running the play clock down before the snap in the second half. Sometimes they are lining up with 15-20 seconds left on the play clock. Do the linemen care that they are in their three point stance for 12-18 seconds on every play? I would think it would be easier on them to stay standing until 8 seconds or so. Just curious. I would think if there was an issue, coaches would change the way they do business.

This is what I was responding to. The time involved and what happens and why. Whether they get in a 3 point or two point stance when the QB calls set is a question best directed to the coaches and their philosophies in doing so.

[56BISON73]

As good of shape these guys should be in it wouldn't cause hardly any energy loss or hurt their backs... blocking a rushing defender is going to put more strain on their back than a 3 point stance... If you get a back problem it can be an issue but then it's going to be ultimately way harder for them to even block at that point. But technically a lineman doesn't need to go 3 point stance to be set they just have to be set for x time (1 sec??) before the ball is snapped and once they assume the "set" stance they cannot move.

Plus with the type of blocking they do these days they arent weight forward it their stance which would have been more difficult to hold for longer periods of time.

[1998braves64]

Does a QB need to call out a set? Maybe Indy can give us the full requirement. Because I believe lineman only have to be "stationary" for certain period thought it was 1 sec... I think this "loophole" played a part in the trick play because I don't think any of the linemen went into a 3 point stance? Maybe I'm remembering wrong? As some of them didn't appear to move until some time after the ball was snapped?

[Bisonguy]

Does a QB need to call out a set? Maybe Indy can give us the full requirement. Because I believe lineman only have to be "stationary" for certain period thought it was 1 sec... I think this "loophole" played a part in the trick play because I don't think any of the linemen went into a 3 point stance? Maybe I'm remembering wrong? As some of them didn't appear to move until some time after the ball was snapped?

Yep.From what I remember only the center got down on the Smith TD play. Matter of fact the linemen almost looked like they were just standing there as opposed to a "normal" two point stance.

[56BISON73]

Yep.From what I remember only the center got down on the Smith TD play. Matter of fact the linemen almost looked like they were just standing there as opposed to a "normal" two point stance.

Yes they were standing. Made a great screen.

[1998braves64]

good then I wasn't imagining that part.. I remember I had turned to say something to my buddy or brother and turned back when I saw them "line" up and all the sudden bam everything was going towards the center than just sort of stopped and some of the linemen were standing there like the FSU o line man who refused to budge on a quick snap, believe they ended up pulling over in front of smith though.

[JustinTyem]

Yes they were standing. Made a great screen.Wait,you said the O-Line needed to get in the 3 point stance read the opp. defense. So you are talking out of both sides of your cheeks here pl. Which is it ???

[56BISON73]

Wait,you said the O-Line needed to get in the 3 point stance read the opp. defense. So you are talking out of both sides of your cheeks here pl. Which is it ???

Wrong where in this post do I mention a 3 point stance-----

Originally Posted by 56BISON73 View Post
With the o-line set the d-line usually has to set its defense as well. This gives brock time to read the defense and the o-line time to read the d as well. Audibles and line calls are made or changed during that time. Plus its also an opportunity to either have the d-line to jump and the line backers to show blitz.

[GradBison]

Do we really have to be so pissy after such a great win?

Life is good Bison fans, enjoy it!

[1998braves64]

Wait,you said the O-Line needed to get in the 3 point stance read the opp. defense. So you are talking out of both sides of your cheeks here pl. Which is it ???

the reason for not getting set in 3 point stance in the trick play is so that the defense doesn't figure out that they can only see 10 players and realize #11 is crouched down behind the line plus as PL said to block more of the view to allow the player to hide behind them. In this case the QB is not reading the d they're trying to catch them off guard, by snapping the ball as soon as possible, which worked beautifully in this situation.

[87Bisonfan]

So is it not required to be set in a 3 point stance before snapping the ball? In this case the o-line was just standing there and the center was only one set.

[56BISON73]

So is it not required to be set in a 3 point stance before snapping the ball? In this case the o-line was just standing there and the center was only one set.

That is correct.

[1998braves64]

So is it not required to be set in a 3 point stance before snapping the ball? In this case the o-line was just standing there and the center was only one set.

In HS (pretty sure college is similar) we were only required to be stationary for 1 sec before the ball was snapped, 3 point 2 point standing didn't matter. Obviously 3 point and crouched 2 point is preferred in order to use your leverage for blocking.

[HerdBot]

Most olineman are huge these days. Sounds dumb but if you have a bunch of 6-6 guys standing up, it blocks the view of the shorter qb to read the defense

[56BISON73]

Most olineman are huge these days. Sounds dumb but if you have a bunch of 6-6 guys standing up, it blocks the view of the shorter qb to read the defense

Very rarely is an o-lineman standing straight up. If the QB is standing right behind an o-lineman of course his field of view will be obstructed. But as he drops back and the receiver get further down field the field of view gets bigger.

[HerdBot]

Very rarely is an o-lineman standing straight up. If the QB is standing right behind an o-lineman of course his field of view will be obstructed. But as he drops back and the receiver get further down field the field of view gets bigger.

I was talking about pre snap reading the defense

[56BISON73]

I was talking about pre snap reading the defense

Have you noticed how far and how long brock stands behind the LOS before getting under center?

[CAS4127]

Have you noticed how far and how long brock stands behind the LOS before getting under center?

Much of that is clock management Pat. Notice the score and field position when you see this. We rely on our D to win or lose games, and run a controlled, methodical offense as a result. Oh, and we won a Natty with that same thing last year. We r fine now--just like last year!


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[HerdBot]

Have you noticed how far and how long brock stands behind the LOS before getting under center?

Yeah up until a few games ago he was in shotgun too much. I guess i was talking about presnap if they stand up until 5 seconds left.
If they did that it would probably lead to too many shotgun snaps so he could see

Another point... if we do that the defense could pick up on the snap count pretty easily

[IndyBison]

Does a QB need to call out a set? Maybe Indy can give us the full requirement. Because I believe lineman only have to be "stationary" for certain period thought it was 1 sec... I think this "loophole" played a part in the trick play because I don't think any of the linemen went into a 3 point stance? Maybe I'm remembering wrong? As some of them didn't appear to move until some time after the ball was snapped?
The requirements are they need at least 5 players on the line of scrimmage numbered 50-79. Most formations have 7 with two eligible ends. Before the snap, all 11 players need to have been set for at least 1 second before the ball is snapped. Any back or end can shift before the snap and any interior lineman can shift before the snap if they have not gotten into a 3 point stance (this includes a player who has put his hand below his knee). If an interior lineman gets into a 3 point stance and moves his hand he's guilty of a false start.

As far as everyone being set there is no requirement in how they position their body other than linemen need to be parallel with the goal line (they can't be facing their own sideline). They can stand straight up if they want. It's probably harder to get stationary this way and since the key to blocking is to get low it's not an optimal position. The QB is not required to provide any kind of cadence by rule. There are rules preventing an offense from doing something that makes it appear the snap is not imminent. Examples would include the "wrong ball" or "I need a play". If the offense snaps while the QB is doing this they are guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct.

I saw the play on the highlight video but you don't see the action before the snap so I don't know if they did anything that would fall under the latter rule. It sounds like it could be possible. I hope Coach Bohl gave the crew a heads on the play before the game.

[1998braves64]

I saw the play on the highlight video but you don't see the action before the snap so I don't know if they did anything that would fall under the latter rule. It sounds like it could be possible. I hope Coach Bohl gave the crew a heads on the play before the game.

Pretty much what I had in mind. They did not indicate in any way that a snap wouldn't be inevitable. Since I only sort of saw it out of the corner of my eye and the fact that they were bunched up so tightly together almost like they were going to do a field goal (and the fact of Ryan Smith crouching/hiding behind the lineman, but not 7 yards back was what got my attention back to the field) they broke the huddle and came into the formation immediately and my brother said the huddle was closer than normal to the ball also, but they snapped it very quickly as I'm sure SDSU d players were going whoa we've never seen this formation either and trying to get people in place when they hiked it. Because the SDSU coaches from the sidelines could have easily seen Ryan Smith from their viewpoint and warned their defense.

[56BISON73]

Yeah up until a few games ago he was in shotgun too much. I guess i was talking about presnap if they stand up until 5 seconds left.
If they did that it would probably lead to too many shotgun snaps so he could see

Another point... if we do that the defense could pick up on the snap count pretty easily

All depends on what type of cadence the QB uses.

[perthbison]

Have you noticed how far and how long brock stands behind the LOS before getting under center?I noticed that. obvious what he's doin.

[56BISON73]

I noticed that. obvious what he's doin.

Yes it serves a duel purpose. It helps slow the game down and the time helps him read the field.

[thebigund]

I have an oline question. Why do teh ramz only wear a knee brace on their inside knee instead of both?

[coloradobison]

I have an oline question. Why do teh ramz only wear a knee brace on their inside knee instead of both?

Just a guess but wouldn't that be the one that would get rolled up on most frequent?

[Snorty]

I have an oline question. Why do teh ramz only wear a knee brace on their inside knee instead of both?

Never really noticed this before. Could be because when pass blocking you kick step with the outside leg?

[Rynomite]

It's for inside support and protection from being rolled. I wore one my whole life. Before it was cool.

[thebigund]

Never really noticed this before. Could be because when pass blocking you kick step with the outside leg?

I'm just wondering why not wear two? When a guard pulls his other knee would be on the inside and be unprotected. Seems to be working since I don't remember the last NDSU olineman that was lost to a knee in a game.