Great West?

[2006gwfcchamps]

This is coming down to an interesting decision.


If the Great West were to announce the addition of San Diego for the 2007 season and assuming no other GW teams leave, the GW would be eligible for an auto bid to the DI football tournament for the 2010 season. Also, the possibility of adding UND and USD brings in 2 more teams to the league.

Of course, the Gateway is eligible now.


I still think that if the Gateway offers NDSU, we'll take it.

But the Great West+San Diego scenario is pretty interesting.

[TransAmBison]

It sure is nice to have something to fall back on no matter what. The picture sure looks better than even a year ago!

[NDSUFREAK10]

Great West trips
2,000 miles to San Diego, California
1,906 miles to Cal Davis, California
1,885 miles to SLO, California (San Luis Opiscpo sp?)
1,247 miles to Utah (not sure the city off the top of my head.)
185 miles to Brookings, South Dakota
297 miles to Vermillion, South Dakota
83 miles to Grand Forks, North Dakota

Average miles: 2,172 miles there and back.


Gateway trips
449 miles to Ceder Falls, Iowa
822 miles to Youngstown, Ohio*
710 miles to Mcomb, Illinois
790 miles to Springfield, Illiois
978 miles to Carbondale, Illinois*
822 miles to Sycamore, Indiana
691 miles to Normal, Illinois*

Average trip is 1,292 there and back.

*= Made it to the playoffs

I would want us to go to the Gateway. Not only is the competition better IMO, but we wouldn't have to travel so much for conference games. The Great West would have 4 1,000+ miles trip and 1 over 2,000 miles where the Gateway doesn't have a school more than 1,000 miles away. I personally don't want to wait until 2010 to get an automatic into the playoffs. Plus, we could expand out recruiting into the hallowed state of Ohio.

(this is, of course, speculation on if San Diego, und, and USD do go to the Great West and SDSU stays.)

[56BISON73]

Great West trips
2,000 miles to San Diego, California
1,906 miles to Cal Davis, California
1,885 miles to SLO, California (San Luis Opiscpo sp?)
1,247 miles to Utah (not sure the city off the top of my head.)
185 miles to Brookings, South Dakota
297 miles to Vermillion, South Dakota
83 miles to Grand Forks, North Dakota

Average miles: 2,172 miles there and back.


Gateway trips
449 miles to Ceder Falls, Iowa
822 miles to Youngstown, Ohio*
710 miles to Mcomb, Illinois
790 miles to Springfield, Illiois
978 miles to Carbondale, Illinois*
822 miles to Sycamore, Indiana
691 miles to Normal, Illinois*

Average trip is 1,292 there and back.

*= Made it to the playoffs

I would want us to go to the Gateway. Not only is the competition better IMO, but we wouldn't have to travel so much for conference games. The Great West would have 4 1,000+ miles trip and 1 over 2,000 miles where the Gateway doesn't have a school more than 1,000 miles away. I personally don't want to wait until 2010 to get an automatic into the playoffs. Plus, we could expand out recruiting into the hallowed state of Ohio.

(this is, of course, speculation on if San Diego, und, and USD do go to the Great West and SDSU stays.)


I would love the Gateway. Sprinfield MO is only and hour and fifteen miutes from where I live in AR. Plus all the Ill schools are within easy striking distance.
PL

[Gamehunter]

this is a no-brainer. If we had the offer in hand for Gateway that is the route to take.

[silkamilkamonico]

this is a no-brainer. *If we had the offer in hand for Gateway that is the route to take.


It is a no brainer.

WIth UND and USD making the move, the Great West will grab them, and any other former NCC team that makes the move up.

It isn't inconcievable to think that in about 5 years, the Great West could like like the NCC, with the Cal teams and Southern Utah added, depending on who makes the move up. St Cloud is likely to be next, along with MSU Mankato, maybe Augustana, and it's only a matter of time beofre Minn-Duluth makes the move also.


Gateway, please ask us, please.

[drewaely]

this is a no-brainer. If we had the offer in hand for Gateway that is the route to take.


It is a no brainer.

WIth UND and USD making the move, the Great West will grab them, and any other former NCC team that makes the move up.

It isn't inconcievable to think that in about 5 years, the Great West could like like the NCC, with the Cal teams and Southern Utah added, depending on who makes the move up. St Cloud is likely to be next, along with MSU Mankato, maybe Augustana, and it's only a matter of time beofre Minn-Duluth makes the move also.


Gateway, please ask us, please.

I know that we're all speculating but in my opinion, St. Cloud may be the only school of the ones listed to go d1. Duluth, Mankato and Augustana won't ever go.

[TheDoctor]

Great West trips
2,000 miles to San Diego, California
1,906 miles to Cal Davis, California
1,885 miles to SLO, California (San Luis Opiscpo sp?)
1,247 miles to Utah (not sure the city off the top of my head.)
185 miles to Brookings, South Dakota
297 miles to Vermillion, South Dakota
83 miles to Grand Forks, North Dakota

Average miles: 2,172 miles there and back.


Gateway trips
449 miles to Ceder Falls, Iowa
822 miles to Youngstown, Ohio*
710 miles to Mcomb, Illinois
790 miles to Springfield, Illiois
978 miles to Carbondale, Illinois*
822 miles to Sycamore, Indiana
691 miles to Normal, Illinois*

Average trip is 1,292 there and back.

*= Made it to the playoffs

I would want us to go to the Gateway. Not only is the competition better IMO, but we wouldn't have to travel so much for conference games. The Great West would have 4 1,000+ miles trip and 1 over 2,000 miles where the Gateway doesn't have a school more than 1,000 miles away. I personally don't want to wait until 2010 to get an automatic into the playoffs. Plus, we could expand out recruiting into the hallowed state of Ohio.

(this is, of course, speculation on if San Diego, und, and USD do go to the Great West and SDSU stays.)



RoadWarrior would sure appreciate the Gateway scenario! ;D ;D

[2006gwfcchamps]

Great West trips
2,000 miles to San Diego, California
1,906 miles to Cal Davis, California
1,885 miles to SLO, California (San Luis Opiscpo sp?)
1,247 miles to Utah (not sure the city off the top of my head.)
185 miles to Brookings, South Dakota
297 miles to Vermillion, South Dakota
83 miles to Grand Forks, North Dakota

Average miles: 2,172 miles there and back.


Gateway trips
449 miles to Ceder Falls, Iowa
822 miles to Youngstown, Ohio*
710 miles to Mcomb, Illinois
790 miles to Springfield, Illiois
978 miles to Carbondale, Illinois*
822 miles to Sycamore, Indiana
691 miles to Normal, Illinois*

Average trip is 1,292 there and back.

*= Made it to the playoffs

I would want us to go to the Gateway. Not only is the competition better IMO, but we wouldn't have to travel so much for conference games. The Great West would have 4 1,000+ miles trip and 1 over 2,000 miles where the Gateway doesn't have a school more than 1,000 miles away. I personally don't want to wait until 2010 to get an automatic into the playoffs. Plus, we could expand out recruiting into the hallowed state of Ohio.

(this is, of course, speculation on if San Diego, und, and USD do go to the Great West and SDSU stays.)



I've heard the football team charters a plane for all away trips anyway.

But as far as traveling fans go, of course you're right. The distance is much greater in the GW.

[kchats]

I would appreciate the Gateway because I would make it to the Missouri State game in Springfield every other year potentially. I am 3 hours away here in Kansas City.

[DIBISON]

If NDSU & SDSU get into the Gateway Conference it will provide further separation between them and the other regional NCC schools that plan to move up to DI. So why wouldn't NDSU & SDSU accept membership in a much more pretigious conference like the Gateway?

It is a no brainer......time for everyone to move on to the Gateway!!

[sambini]

GATEWAY+++++++++++

[insane_ponderer]

gateway all the way. step up in competition, better geographically, playoff bid, etc. etc....

lets just hope they offer.

[TransAmBison]

gateway all the way. *step up in competition, better geographically, playoff bid, etc. etc....

lets just hope they offer.
I don't know about the step up in competition thing. Pound for pound, the Great West has as heavy of hitters as anybody. The Cali schools match up well with the top schools of a lot of conferences, SDSU has made huge strides. Don't get me wrong, I think we would be foolish to not go to the Gateway for the rest of your reasons, I just think the Great West is very impressive.

[2006gwfcchamps]

That's kind of what I was thinking as well.

Not sure what type of program San Diego would be, but certainly UND and even USD would have a chance to be top 25 schools pretty quick in I-AA.

Could be as good or better than the Gateway if more schools leave for I-A (Ill State and Youngs State).

[tony]

If San Diego joins, then we'd be in a conference with some of three of the better academic programs in the nation. OTOH, who really thinks UC Davis is going to be around that much longer?

[2006gwfcchamps]

I think they're going I-A. Just a matter of how long.

Their new stadium seats maybe 10k, but's its expandable. I guess it depends on how they do in the next 5 years.


Lots of teams starting to think about moving up to I-A.


Jeez, it seems just like when we figure out that we need to be I-AA instead of II, a lot of teams start figuring out that they need to be I-A instead of I-AA.

[BraxtonT]

If San Diego joins, then we'd be in a conference with some of three of the better academic programs in the nation. OTOH, who really thinks UC Davis is going to be around that much longer?

I predict the Aggies will not move up to I-A for at least 10 years. Even with the new stadium being built, it is going to take them a while to build up a fan base worthy of I-A. With Cal, San Jose State, and Stanford in such close proximity, they will need to get all their ducks in a row to make sure it will work for them.

Other thoughts related to this thread:

1. As a frequent follower on the road, I'm torn between the two options out there. I AM ASSUMING WE GET BACK TO A 6 HOME/ 5 AWAY GAME SCHEDULE (HEY, LAKES, THIS IS FUN USING CAPS!!!): With the Great West (with USD and UND) I will be able to easily make one or two short DAY trips per year. We will get two of them at home (including SDSU) and one on the road one year and two on the road, one at home the next year. Manipulating the schedule to play a "local" BCS school (Iowa State/ Minnesota) when we have only one "local" GWFC road game would make for every year having three long, flying weekend road trips. When we have two "local" GWFC road games (UND and one of the SD schools), we should go for as big a guarantee game with a BCS as we can get: Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Wyoming, Colorado, Colorado State, Air Force, etc....

With six conference games and the BCS game, that would still leave four games to be scheduled. Needing three of those to be home games, we should be able to swing one guarantee game with a quality I-AA school like Northeastern and either a Top 10 D2 or No Scholarship I-AA for the home opener. The other two games would have to be home/ home arrangements. I know that scares a lot of people with the Montana State fiasco fresh in our minds, but as we get more into this division, we should gain more leverage. Besides, I'm sure Gene will not sign another contract like the one he did with Montana State. I foresee an opportunity with Northern Iowa being a natural fit, and the Southland Conference schools (Stephen F. Austin, Northwestern St (La), and Nicholls State) have shown to be a good relationship. Georgia Southern went to Brookings, so barring a Montana State repeat, we should be seeing the Eagles in a couple of years as they honor their contract.

No autobid for the GWFC? Do we really need it? Seriously, Montana State made the playoffs this year with four losses. If we take care of our business, we will get an at large bid. If we go to the Gateway, we will HAVE TO BE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS to get the autobid. Think about it, 2nd place or lower is not guaranteed a playoff spot in the autobid conferences. A GWFC with UND and USD will ultimately be more powerful than it is now. Autobid or not, the champion will be invited to the playoffs.

"Yeah, but Cal Poly got screwed in 2004" some will say. I agree they were good enough and agree they did get screwed that year, but remember they had wins against NDSU and SDSU that didn't count as D1-AA wins because we were not a counter that year. For that reason only, I say that UND and USD should not be admitted until 2009 when they will be counters. The GWFC is gaining the respect of the others in the division and its champion (like autobid conference champions) will be invited to the playoffs.

My last "pro" comment for the GWFC relates to the locations of the schools.

Davis, California: Wine country, San Francisco Bay Area= Mini-vacation
San Luis Obispo, California: Pacific Ocean, Pacific Coast Highway, close enough to both LA and San Francisco=Mini-vacation
Cedar City, Utah: Fly to Vegas, Hoover Dam, Grand Canyon, Mountains, Scenic Beauty= Mini- vacation

2. Gateway: Guaranteed 8 games with only three more to schedule. Long, long, long drives to places that essentially don't make an impression like the West Coast GWFC locations. When we play SDSU at the FargoDome, I would hope we would be traveling to Cedar Falls to play UNI for a "semi-local" road game. The other three road games either require flying or a lot of interstate driving. I've driven to Muncie and Carbondale the last two years. I don't regret going to either of them, but trip-wise, they sucked compared to Cedar City and Davis.

After writing the above, I'm no longer torn. I like the GWFC. I think we should help Thomas Douple to sway San Diego, Western Illinois, or even Sacramento State to join the league, too. If the GWFC could get two of those schools to join and become a 9 team football league, the scheduling would be that much easier.

I know most of my thoughts in the above paragraph are a pipe dream, but the rest of it is what I'm sure Gene Taylor is weighing as the inviation from the Gateway arrives. I see plenty of good things with both conferences, so whatever Gene decides will be OK with me, but I do favor staying in the GWFC.

[NDSUFREAK10]

If San Diego joins, then we'd be in a conference with some of three of the better academic programs in the nation. OTOH, who really thinks UC Davis is going to be around that much longer?

I predict the Aggies will not move up to I-A for at least 10 years. *Even with the new stadium being built, it is going to take them a while to build up a fan base worthy of I-A. *With Cal, San Jose State, *and Stanford in such close proximity, they will need to get all their ducks in a row to make sure it will work for them. *

Other thoughts related to this thread: *

1. *As a frequent follower on the road, I'm torn between the two options out there. *I AM ASSUMING WE GET BACK TO A 6 HOME/ 5 AWAY GAME SCHEDULE (HEY, LAKES, THIS IS FUN USING CAPS!!!): *With the Great West (with USD and UND) I will be able to easily make one or two short DAY trips per year. *We will get two of them at home (including SDSU) and one on the road one year and two on the road, one at home the next year. *Manipulating the schedule to play a "local" BCS school (Iowa State/ Minnesota) when we have only one "local" GWFC road game would make for every year having three long, flying weekend road trips. *When we have two "local" GWFC road games (UND and one of the SD schools), we should go for as big a guarantee game with a BCS as we can get: *Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Wyoming, Colorado, Colorado State, Air Force, etc....

With six conference games and the BCS game, that would still leave four games to be scheduled. *Needing three of those to be home games, we should be able to swing one guarantee game with a quality I-AA school like Northeastern and either a Top 10 D2 or No Scholarship I-AA for the home opener. *The other two games would have to be home/ home arrangements. *I know that scares a lot of people with the Montana State fiasco fresh in our minds, but as we get more into this division, we should gain more leverage. *Besides, I'm sure Gene will not sign another contract like the one he did with Montana State. *I foresee an opportunity with Northern Iowa being a natural fit, and the Southland Conference schools (Stephen F. Austin, Northwestern St (La), and Nicholls State) have shown to be a good relationship. *Georgia Southern went to Brookings, so barring a Montana State repeat, we should be seeing the Eagles in a couple of years as they honor their contract.

No autobid for the GWFC? *Do we really need it? *Seriously, Montana State made the playoffs this year with four losses. *If we take care of our business, we will get an at large bid. *If we go to the Gateway, we will HAVE TO BE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS to get the autobid. *Think about it, 2nd place or lower is not guaranteed a playoff spot in the autobid conferences. *A GWFC with UND and USD will ultimately be more powerful than it is now. *Autobid or not, the champion will be invited to the playoffs. *

"Yeah, but Cal Poly got screwed in 2004" some will say. *I agree they were good enough and agree they did get screwed that year, but remember they had wins against NDSU and SDSU that didn't count as D1-AA wins because we were not a counter that year. *For that reason only, I say that UND and USD should not be admitted until 2009 when they will be counters. *The GWFC is gaining the respect of the others in the division and its champion (like autobid conference champions) will be invited to the playoffs.

My last "pro" comment for the GWFC relates to the locations of the schools. *

Davis, California: Wine country, San Francisco Bay Area= Mini-vacation
San Luis Obispo, California: Pacific Ocean, Pacific Coast Highway, close enough to both LA and San Francisco=Mini-vacation
Cedar City, Utah: Fly to Vegas, Hoover Dam, Grand Canyon, Mountains, Scenic Beauty= Mini- vacation

2. *Gateway: *Guaranteed 8 games with only three more to schedule. *Long, long, long drives to places that essentially don't make an impression like the West Coast GWFC locations. *When we play SDSU at the FargoDome, I would hope we would be traveling to Cedar Falls to play UNI for a "semi-local" road game. *The other three road games either require flying or a lot of interstate driving. *I've driven to Muncie and Carbondale the last two years. *I don't regret going to either of them, but trip-wise, they sucked compared to Cedar City and Davis.

After writing the above, I'm no longer torn. *I like the GWFC. *I think we should help Thomas Douple to sway San Diego, Western Illinois, or even Sacramento State to join the league, too. *If the GWFC could get two of those schools to join and become a 9 team football league, the scheduling would be that much easier.

I know most of my thoughts in the above paragraph are a pipe dream, but the rest of it is what I'm sure Gene Taylor is weighing as the inviation from the Gateway arrives. *I see plenty of good things with both conferences, so whatever Gene decides will be OK with me, but I do favor staying in the GWFC.


Yeah, but then the players will be distracted! ;) ;D

[SDbison]

The solution is simple....just say no to the GWFC and yes to the Gateway when offered. Why are some of you so infatuated with the GWFC when it was made clear from the beginning that NDSU would jump when something better came around. The autobid is everything because in a strong and established conference like the Gateway two more teams can get the at large bids.

[kchats]

It shouldn't even be a tough choice. When the Gateway offers membership Gene should say yes before they finish the question. How many Gateway teams are still kicking in the playoffs? They said this would all happen when they were all out of the playoffs.

[Gamehunter]

As far as UC Davis, they are not going anywhere. Their fan base and financial situation for football is not a tenth of what we have, and even that would require some work to compete at the I-A level.





The solution is simple....just say no to the GWFC and yes to the Gateway when offered. Why are some of you so infatuated with the GWFC when it was made clear from the beginning that NDSU would jump when something better came around. The autobid is everything because in a strong and established conference like the Gateway two more teams can get the at large bids.


++

The Gateway is better than the Great West on almost every aspect for NDSU. I am sure Taylor and Co. are keeping their options open but I doubt they are seriously entertaining the idea of sticking around the GW if another option opens.

[Bison_Engineer]

I think the Great West is vulnerable to a melt down similar to what's happening with the NCC because of the travel distances and costs. The Gateway is attractive because of the autobid and less travel costs. I think we should shoot for the Gateway and lets get SDSU in there too as they took the chance to move to D1 when we did and UND chickened out and poo pooed us for moving so lets leave UND in the cold!

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

The fact of the matter is that if either Cal-Poly or UC-Davis go 1-A then I think that the other will follow. While the GWFC is a nice option for now it is definitely vulnerable for all the reasons said earlier. Travel costs, possible defections and low membership. If the Gateway comes calling we better be all over it.

[2006gwfcchamps]

The fact of the matter is that if either Cal-Poly or UC-Davis go 1-A then I think that the other will follow. While the GWFC is a nice option for now it is definitely vulnerable for all the reasons said earlier. Travel costs, possible defections and low membership. If the Gateway comes calling we better be all over it.

Poly won't be going I-A any time soon.

They don't have the research. I know their undergrad academics are tops in the country for A&M schools, but they're only a Larger Master's when it comes to research (according to Carnegie).

Davis, OTOH, is part of the AAU.

[CaBisonFan]

I like the Great West. *I'm probably partial to this because the Bison show up in three cities that I can drive to from Southern California. *I want whatever is best for the players. *It's just my opinion that the Great West schools provide a more diverse travel experience....almost a bowl game environment because of the sheer beauty of some of the communities....such as San Luis Obispo. *

I'm no UND fan, but I suppose it could be said that at some point the rivalry needs to be renewed. *I can't actually believe that I just wrote this. *But in terms of the long-range planning for the people of North Dakota, bringing back the rivalry makes sense. *It could still be done as a nonconference home & home I suppose.

The addition of San Diego, and then possibly USD and UND would make it an unbelievably solid conference. *It would be tempting to stick it out and see the conference continue to grow.

I do have one big fear about staying in the Great West though. *It has to do with the two California schools. *I believe that the potential for them moving up to DI-A in the future is extremely real. *DII and DI-AA are off the California media radar. *Most of the other schools that are similar institutions are in DI-A...and I'm thinking that the goal at CP and UCD is to get into the media flow and to compete with schools like Long Beach State, Fresno State, Cal State Fullerton, etc. *UC Riverside will be adding football very soon also. *This is just a hunch. *How soon? *No idea. *And I'm not sure either. *

I think that the new stadium at UC Davis is being built in the 30,000 range...which to me, indicates an eye on DI-A. To fill that stadium, it would probably require playing some of the natural California rivalries in DI-A on a regular basis.

The Gateway is down the midwest corridor....easier travel for the teams and the fans I suppose....solid conference too. *Like others say...I don't know how the two SU's could turn it down. *The travel, the midwest connection, and other things make the Gateway a more 'common sense' decision. *I would think that more natural rivalries could develop with schools like Northern Iowa.

[NDSUFREAK10]

I like the Great West. *I'm probably partial to this because the Bison show up in three cities that I can drive to from Southern California. *I want whatever is best for the players. *It's just my opinion that the Great West schools provide a more diverse travel experience....almost a bowl game environment because of the sheer beauty of some of the communities....such as San Luis Obispo. *

I'm no UND fan, but I suppose it could be said that at some point the rivalry needs to be renewed. *I can't actually believe that I just wrote this. *But in terms of the long-range planning for the people of North Dakota, bringing back the rivalry makes sense. *It could still be done as a nonconference home & home I suppose.

The addition of San Diego, and then possibly USD and UND would make it an unbelievably solid conference. *It would be tempting to stick it out and see the conference continue to grow.

I do have one big fear about staying in the Great West though. *It has to do with the two California schools. *I believe that the potential for them moving up to DI-A in the future is extremely real. *DII and DI-AA are off the California media radar. *Most of the other schools that are similar institutions are in DI-A...and I'm thinking that the goal at CP and UCD is to get into the media flow and to compete with schools like Long Beach State, Fresno State, Cal State Fullerton, etc. *UC Riverside will be adding football very soon also. *This is just a hunch. *How soon? *No idea. *And I'm not sure either. *

I think that the new stadium at UC Davis is being built in the 30,000 range...which to me, indicates an eye on DI-A. *To fill that stadium, it would probably require playing some of the natural California rivalries in DI-A on a regular basis. *

The Gateway is down the midwest corridor....easier travel for the teams and the fans I suppose....solid conference too. *Like others say...I don't know how the two SU's could turn it down. *The travel, the midwest connection, and other things make the Gateway a more 'common sense' decision. *I would think that more natural rivalries could develop with schools like Northern Iowa.

And show them whose dome is boss.

[mikelsch]

For those wondering whether Western Illinois is interested in the GW ---> they are fully committed to the Gateway. If they would have went to the GW, I think the Mid-Con/GW option would have become more attractive to NDSU/SDSU...quicker chance at securing auto-bid status. But that is just one issue to this puzzle.

[RodentiaX1]

The Great West is a fine conference, but no one wants to be caught out in the cold if teams leave the conference. It's a situation where everyone wins if no one leaves, but if some leave, those left behind can be in a sticky situation. If you are concerned that the other teams might leave, this provides incentive to be the one to leave first.

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

NDSU would be short-sighted to not jump on the gateway bus if they were invited to join. Great West has too many things working against it for us to depend upon it long-term.