ISU game thoughts

[HerdBot]

First off hats of to ISU. Their defense is the real deal.

1) Our defense is amazing. Basically pitched a shutout
2) Offense sucked across the board. Brock sucked. Receivers sucked. Pass protection sucked. Play calling sucked. We were owned. Can't believe we threw a pick on the 29 at the most critical part of the game when we were in field goal range to tie the game. 2 pick sixes and we still had a chance? THe offense lost the game. Period.
3) Clock management was terrible. Why did we waste a timeout after we had 2 minutes to regroup when Shakir Bell was injured? We would have had a minute to work with. Unreal mistake. Wasted another timeout basically because the wrong unit was on the field. Wasted one in the first half and then ran a draw play.
4) Sloppy play. Andre Martins off sides on a key 3rd down was critical. There were at least 2 key game changing penalties. The kickoff coverage basically gave them a field goal.
5) Overall we looked complacent. Like we were overconfident.

Crowd was awesome and loud. Students sucked. Tailgating was epic.

Let's rock Sioux Falls next week. You in?

[EndZoneQB]

Brock was FAR from his old self tonight, but we DEFINITELY saw the Vigen we all know and love today. The freakin' safetys were playing inside all day. Anytime we came up to pass, they were in the Cover 2 scheme....which presumably is on Brock to call an audible. Or is he not allowed to do that in Vigen's offense? It was so predictable I could call the play without even looking at the formation. Again, you can't excuse 3 INTs but it's not like the coaches(ok, not "coaches" but whoever called the game) Brock was FAR from his old self tonight, but we DEFINITELY saw the Vigen we all know and love today. The freakin' safetys were playing inside all day. Anytime we came up to pass, they were in the Cover 2 scheme....which presumably is on Brock to call an audible. Or is he not allowed to do that in Vigen's offense? It was so predictable I could call the play without even looking at the formation. Again, you can't excuse 3 INTs but it's not like the coaches(ok, not "coaches" but whoever called the game) put him in a good position to make a play.

[BisonTeacher]

Brock was FAR from his old self tonight, but we DEFINITELY saw the Vigen we all know and love today. The freakin' safetys were playing inside all day. Anytime we came up to pass, they were in the Cover 2 scheme....which presumably is on Brock to call an audible. Or is he not allowed to do that in Vigen's offense? It was so predictable I could call the play without even looking at the formation. Again, you can't excuse 3 INTs but it's not like the coaches(ok, not "coaches" but whoever called the game) Brock was FAR from his old self tonight, but we DEFINITELY saw the Vigen we all know and love today. The freakin' safetys were playing inside all day. Anytime we came up to pass, they were in the Cover 2 scheme....which presumably is on Brock to call an audible. Or is he not allowed to do that in Vigen's offense? It was so predictable I could call the play without even looking at the formation. Again, you can't excuse 3 INTs but it's not like the coaches(ok, not "coaches" but whoever called the game) put him in a good position to make a play.

Again...I dont know why we ran two pass plays on first and second down when in fg range to tie. Baffling.

[WYOBISONMAN]

It makes me wonder if Brock could be a little banged up.......just strange he was so off today.

[BisonTeacher]

It makes me wonder if Brock could be a little banged up.......just strange he was so off today.

Last time he was "sick" he rocked the heck out of GSU

[semobison]

Again...I dont know why we ran two pass plays on first and second down when in fg range to tie. Baffling.

The first pass play would have been 6 if it wasn't overthrown. The 2nd should not have been thrown. We were playing for the win! Tie??

[BisonTeacher]

The first pass play would have been 6 if it wasn't overthrown. The 2nd should not have been thrown. We were playing for the win! Tie??

I get what you are saying but hindsight is 20/20/ We lost. If we win...your statement trumps mine. at that point...the way we were playing...the tie would have been awesome.

[semobison]

I get what you are saying but hindsight is 20/20/ We lost. If we win...your statement trumps mine. at that point...the way we were playing...the tie would have been awesome.

The problem I have is that our QB who should understand situations needs to make better decisions when the game is in balance. Brocks 3rd pick was telegraphed! In that situation a veteran QB needs to either throw it away or tuck it and run if its not there. We had a chance to win an almost unwinnable game at that point. Play calling wasnt great but execution or lack of cost us the game...bottom line!

[Bisonguy]

The problem I have is that our QB who should understand situations needs to make better decisions when the game is in balance. Brocks 3rd pick was telegraphed! In that situation a veteran QB needs to either throw it away or tuck it and run if its not there. We had a chance to win an almost unwinnable game at that point. Play calling wasnt great but execution or lack of cost us the game...bottom line!

Brock has had pretty good pocket presence in the past but that was yet another thing lacking in his game tonight. He didn't seem composed or confident when there was a little pressure. Instead of stepping up and making the throw or scrambling for yards, he just seemed to nonchalantly meander laterally, get tackled without securing the ball and looking as if he was going to attempt to throw as he was getting sacked. I was surprised that there wasn't at least once more turnover from Brock either trying to get rid of the ball as he was being tackled or not securing the ball properly, especially after coughing the ball up last week.

[CaBisonFan]

The initial kick return...ball control on their part...and salty defense threw us completely out of our game.

We were schooled by their defense.

[1998braves64]

My thoughts the offence did not exist period until our td drive, I believe ISU was getting winded as we were able to get two PI calls on the second to last drive. Can't blame for going for the win seems running game was off so may be why they didn't run on first down? The first pass was slightly off otherwise would have been 6. I think the one key may have been grothmann players like that are easily overlooked like the o line. There was nobody opening running lanes and seemed to be missed blitzers that weren't being blocked. If this game serves us well like the Youngstown game last year then I will live with it.

[1998braves64]

3) Clock management was terrible. Why did we waste a timeout after we had 2 minutes to regroup when Shakir Bell was injured? We would have had a minute to work with. Unreal mistake. Wasted another timeout basically because the wrong unit was on the field. Wasted one in the first half and then ran a draw play.



Did Ndsu call timeout before they knew bell was hurt? Anyway the clock would have started and they would have been able to run some time off, probably not as much though, before snapping the ball after the injury maybe would have saved 15 secs? But I wonder if they called it before they knew bell was down? Not allowable to take back a TO is it?

[missingnumber7]

Point is that at the point in time in the injury it was 4th down and we didn't have a) enough guys on the field or b) the proper group of guys on the field.

[56BISON73]

The first pass play would have been 6 if it wasn't overthrown. The 2nd should not have been thrown. We were playing for the win! Tie??

Of course you are playing for the win. But your play calling has to reflect the possibility of not making the first down which still leaves you in a position to at least tie the game.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

We played like crap.

[1998braves64]

Point is that at the point in time in the injury it was 4th down and we didn't have a) enough guys on the field or b) the proper group of guys on the field.
Wasn't 4th down 2nd if I remember right they got a first down after that w the Williams PI call. That was a time killer there as that would have been 4 th down then and would of had like 2 mins!

[Siouxfallsbison]

You have know clue. Period

[ndsubison1]

Brock was FAR from his old self tonight, but we DEFINITELY saw the Vigen we all know and love today. The freakin' safetys were playing inside all day. Anytime we came up to pass, they were in the Cover 2 scheme....which presumably is on Brock to call an audible. Or is he not allowed to do that in Vigen's offense? It was so predictable I could call the play without even looking at the formation. Again, you can't excuse 3 INTs but it's not like the coaches(ok, not "coaches" but whoever called the game) Brock was FAR from his old self tonight, but we DEFINITELY saw the Vigen we all know and love today. The freakin' safetys were playing inside all day. Anytime we came up to pass, they were in the Cover 2 scheme....which presumably is on Brock to call an audible. Or is he not allowed to do that in Vigen's offense? It was so predictable I could call the play without even looking at the formation. Again, you can't excuse 3 INTs but it's not like the coaches(ok, not "coaches" but whoever called the game) put him in a good position to make a play.

you can say that again. literally

[mgbison]

How is playcalling a reason we lost? Brock threw 3 int's at crucial points in the game. It had nothing to do with play calling. There were multiple times we had guys wide open Brock just wasn't Brock today. On top of that, running the ball with Ojuri was a waste of a down in this game.

Vigen should feel comfortable with Brock throwing the ball at the end of the game.

This game was on the players, plays were called that would have been successful had we not dropped the ball or found the correct open receiver.

[1998braves64]

You have know clue. Period
Is this directed at me?

[loudsilverado]

I fell off the Brock bandwagon, he looked like the Brock of 2 years ago. Gotta be able to make better decisions and sling that rock baby. He has no zip on that ball imo!! I blame most of the offense struggles on coaching though.

[b15on]

Dom and Kolpack's thoughts in the Bison PostGame Show vs Indiana State

http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/2012/10/14/bison-postgame-show-vs-indiana-state/

[BAT67]

Terrible game by the offense brock looked way off his game no zip on his passes and did not seem to see the field,the complete offense seemed to have no energy, i dont think firing vigen would change everything 2 of those 3 passes were just horrible. i will agree the play calling was different then i have seen this year but hey in the end just 1 loss lets regroup and roll some yotes and get this train back on the tracks!!!!!!!!!

[stevdock]

Thinking back over the game I have a feeling that a lot of the bad throws/decisions were caused by Brock getting hit like he's never been hit before this season. I think the other five games combined you could count on one hand the number of times he got hit where as today it seemed like he got hit EVERY pass play and many times he was peeling himself off the floor. Think back to last week and how good Hess looked coming into the game and how many times he got hit by the Bison and how poor he looked during the game. Brock will have a better game next week and so will the offensive line/running backs with both run and pass blocking.

[td577]

How is playcalling a reason we lost? Brock threw 3 int's at crucial points in the game. It had nothing to do with play calling. There were multiple times we had guys wide open Brock just wasn't Brock today. On top of that, running the ball with Ojuri was a waste of a down in this game.

Vigen should feel comfortable with Brock throwing the ball at the end of the game.

This game was on the players, plays were called that would have been successful had we not dropped the ball or found the correct open receiver.

I might be one of the few that thinks Vigen is a very good play caller most of the time. IMO, today was an exception and here is why:

1. Last drive first...the Bison had no business throwing the ball. There was plenty of time to run a few plays and put the kicking game in a better position. I am not saying to ignore a TD opportunity, but 10 more yards all but guaranteed the tie and a nicer place to take a couple of shots to the end zone. The way our defense was playing, a tie should have scared no one at that point.

2. It became quite obvious very early ISU had made a choice to jump our favorite routes. Vigen could have used that to his advantage by mixing up routes within the plays. Believe it or not, NDSU has more than 6 plays in the playbook.

3. The reverses and double reverses were picking up 5 to 6 yards at a time not because they were fooling anyone but rather pushing the play to the edges which was obviously more difficult for ISU to defend.

4. I don't remember any middle screens being called so Vigen must have seen LBers staying home. When the defense starts becoming predictable, you must have the knowledge of what to immediately change to increase productivity. That didn't happen this game. Instead of expanding the playbook, it was narrowed to 3 favorite plays vs 6.

5. Ojuri was sluggish, Crockett was hurt, and no one else was given the chance to perform? If you can't call on Lang or Dinwiddie to carry the load for a couple of series, then there are some issues. While Crockett wasn't playing terribly, I don't think he should have been in the game when RB depth is supposed to one of the strengths of the team.

The one place I have seen Vigen and Ndsu fail is the ability to adapt on the fly. If this team isn't comfortable with tweaking parts of their game during a game, then we will see a couple more teams turn the tables and play Bison football against us. Yesterday was an opportunity to take advantage of our own tendencies and exploit the defense. Instead, when the square peg wouldn't fit the round hole, instead of looking in their toolbox for a round peg, they grabbed a sledgehammer and tried to make it fit. As we know, this didn't work out so well.

[tjamz]

First off hats of to ISU. Their defense is the real deal.

1) Our defense is amazing. Basically pitched a shutout
2) Offense sucked across the board. Brock sucked. Receivers sucked. Pass protection sucked. Play calling sucked. We were owned. Can't believe we threw a pick on the 29 at the most critical part of the game when we were in field goal range to tie the game. 2 pick sixes and we still had a chance? THe offense lost the game. Period.
3) Clock management was terrible. Why did we waste a timeout after we had 2 minutes to regroup when Shakir Bell was injured? We would have had a minute to work with. Unreal mistake. Wasted another timeout basically because the wrong unit was on the field. Wasted one in the first half and then ran a draw play.
4) Sloppy play. Andre Martins off sides on a key 3rd down was critical. There were at least 2 key game changing penalties. The kickoff coverage basically gave them a field goal.
5) Overall we looked complacent. Like we were overconfident.

Crowd was awesome and loud. Students sucked. Tailgating was epic.

Let's rock Sioux Falls next week. You in?

I agree with everything except 1/2 of what I highlighted. the "crowd" was meh at best. Spent most of the game back behind the band and damn near got into a fight for yelling at people to stand up and cheer. Thank goodness one of my friends talked me out of it because I was literally starting to climb over EMPTY seats to get in the face of the person who told me to "sit down and shut up or they'd call security on me" EDIT FORGOT THIS IN THE ORIGINAL POST AS I WAS STILL UPSET: another told me if I didn't sit down and be quiet he'd come down and shut me up himself, which was why I started up the steps myself if he wanted to shut me up I was willing to give him that opportunity.apparently cheering is a bad thing to our fan base now?!? They didn't even make noise on 3rd down when ISU was on our side of the field... fucking pathetic.

Then I moved to a different spot next to EZQB in the opposite end zone. It was better over there, but even there a number of people behind us were sitting on their butts during the game.

Last year I made a post of SPL (sound pressure levels) and how it would be very hard to get "twice as loud" as we typically are. Well, I'm convinced if the 40% of the fans who don't get off their ass and cheer would be replaced with crickets we would be louder by a fairly sizable margin.

Also, a good portion of the dome emptied by halftime and never returned!

(sorry for being all pissed off, but I needed to vent)

See bold text for clarification and info I neglected to enter in my initial post.

[stevdock]

4. I don't remember any middle screens being called so Vigen must have seen LBers staying home. When the defense starts becoming predictable, you must have the knowledge of what to immediately change to increase productivity. That didn't happen this game. Instead of expanding the playbook, it was narrowed to 3 favorite plays vs 6.


I thought their MLB, #34, in particular did a very good job of staying at home, which means unless someone can get a hat on him the screen is not going to work.

[Rockbear99]

I agree with everything except 1/2 of what I highlighted. the "crowd" was meh at best. Spent most of the game back behind the band and damn near got into a fight for yelling at people to stand up and cheer. Thank goodness one of my friends talked me out of it because I was literally starting to climb over EMPTY seats to get in the face of the person who told me to "sit down and shut up or they'd call security on me" apparently cheering is a bad thing to our fan base now?!? They didn't even make noise on 3rd down when ISU was on our side of the field... fucking pathetic.

Then I moved to a different spot next to EZQB in the opposite end zone. It was better over there, but even there a number of people behind us were sitting on their butts during the game.

Last year I made a post of SPL (sound pressure levels) and how it would be very hard to get "twice as loud" as we typically are. Well, I'm convinced if the 40% of the fans who don't get off their ass and cheer would be replaced with crickets we would be louder by a fairly sizable margin.

Also, a good portion of the dome emptied by halftime and never returned!

(sorry for being all pissed off, but I needed to vent)

yeah blame the fans. So what if a fan wants to watch the game that is their choice they paid for the ticket just like you did. Some people are not the rah rah type. Its a holes like you that start yelling at fans that give the ones who cheer a bad name.

[td577]

I thought their MLB, #34, in particular did a very good job of staying at home, which means unless someone can get a hat on him the screen is not going to work.

Right. You saw that, I saw that, and obviously Vigen saw that, so when a defense is committed to shutting down part of the field it creates other opportunities. Instead of exploiting options the Bison eliminated plays. Then they went back to running the same plays the DBs were jumping all over. My whole point is our offense's capacity can not be that limited.

[loudsilverado]

yeah blame the fans. So what if a fan wants to watch the game that is their choice they paid for the ticket just like you did. Some people are not the rah rah type. Its a holes like you that start yelling at fans that give the ones who cheer a bad name.

People should stay home then and watch it on tv. It's a college football game atmosphere, the crowd is encouraged to participate. I absolutely hate people just sitting there texting, playing cards, reading books, and complaining. You apparently have never watched some of the FBS games on tv? I sure didn't see anyone sitting during the Texas/OU game. They would have been beaten up and thrown out by people like me.

[BisonTeacher]

People should stay home then and watch it on tv. It's a college football game atmosphere, the crowd is encouraged to participate. I absolutely hate people just sitting there texting, playing cards, reading books, and complaining. You apparently have never watched some of the FBS games on tv? I sure didn't see anyone sitting during the Texas/OU game. They would have been beaten up and thrown out by people like me.

You must have never been to a gopher game! Speaking of knitters!

[Civil06]

Tough day for the offense, but I'm sure nobody feels worse than Brock. He's a very high character individual and a tremendous competitor. Anybody doubting his skills at this point is purposely ignoring a season and a half of high level play (even while sick and injured). We got beat yesterday, plain and simple. This is a time for the leaders in the locker room to gather and refocus the team.

Go Bison!

[BisonNeil]

I wish I could say the outcome of this game surprised me, but it doesn't.

Some of you may recall in the prediction thread I stated that I thought the Bison would be flat in this game, be behind at the half, and then make adjustments and win 21-17. Nearly all the rest of you predicted a massive blowout, but to be honest, I saw this one coming a mile away. It just had that feel from Tuesday onward.

My actual prediction, which I changed because I wasn't in the mood for a bunch of BV shit, was that the Bison would lose 17-14, which would have been bang on. But, I chowered and added a TD for a win, but I never believed it would happen.

This team was over confident. No doubt in my mind. So was Bohl, based on his comments to Kolpack about the Sagarin ratings. I don't think they prepared well enough during the week which makes for poor execution.

Unfortunately, I think there are a lot tougher games ahead.

That is all.

[Bisondan]

People should stay home then and watch it on tv. It's a college football game atmosphere, the crowd is encouraged to participate. I absolutely hate people just sitting there texting, playing cards, reading books, and complaining. You apparently have never watched some of the FBS games on tv? I sure didn't see anyone sitting during the Texas/OU game. They would have been beaten up and thrown out by people like me.

Perhaps you should stop sitting in Section 21.

[JMB]

I will kick out another thought....

This is the first team we have played this year with a decent defense. (I thought Indiana States Defense looked good yesterday, good speed, hard hitting, swarming to the ball). UNI and Youngstown are struggling stopping people. I still believe our offense is better than last year, but, due to the beginning part of our schedule have we developed some tendencies (coaches and players), that won't work against better defenses. In previous games it seemed like everytime we needed a big first down it was a deep out, or a cross field pass. ISU picked those passes off.

We needed a tough game to re-evaluate our play calling and force the team out of their comfort zone. Someone sometime would have thrown a different wrinkle at us sometime this year, if not during the regular season then during the playoffs. Its too bad we couldn't pull it out at the end, but the Bison will come back better.

Secondly, I don't have any problem with the agressiveness on the last "real" drive of the game. The Bison had momentum, and were moving the ball. Plus, we have a kicker with a pulled hamstring, nothing was guarteed there either. You have to have faith in your quarterback to make the right throws, and Brock for the most part has earned that trust.

[Professor Chaos]

There's going to be a newly motivated and very talented football team out there at NDSU football practice this week. I still like our chances. I get the feeling that USD is about to run into a buzzsaw.

If I've learned anything about Brock in his 4 years with the program it's that he's a competitor and winner. He'll be back. My bigger concern is getting Vraa back as a target for him.

[Bisondan]

I agree with everything except 1/2 of what I highlighted. the "crowd" was meh at best. Spent most of the game back behind the band and damn near got into a fight for yelling at people to stand up and cheer. Thank goodness one of my friends talked me out of it because I was literally starting to climb over EMPTY seats to get in the face of the person who told me to "sit down and shut up or they'd call security on me" apparently cheering is a bad thing to our fan base now?!? They didn't even make noise on 3rd down when ISU was on our side of the field... fucking pathetic.

Then I moved to a different spot next to EZQB in the opposite end zone. It was better over there, but even there a number of people behind us were sitting on their butts during the game.

Last year I made a post of SPL (sound pressure levels) and how it would be very hard to get "twice as loud" as we typically are. Well, I'm convinced if the 40% of the fans who don't get off their ass and cheer would be replaced with crickets we would be louder by a fairly sizable margin.

Also, a good portion of the dome emptied by halftime and never returned!

(sorry for being all pissed off, but I needed to vent)

This post is a start but doesn't go nearly far enough. First, we need to remove all seats from the stadium. You have to at least make the knitters, book readers, and cell phone texters do it standing up. Second, the sound technicians need to get a recording of some real crowd noise (i.e, UND v. School of Mines, or MSUM v. anyone) and discretely pump that into the speakers as the other team attempts to call audibles. Third, Section 21 (preferably the entire section, but at least the lower part) should be removed from the stadium. I swear Indiana State's little section made more noise than the knitters in Section 21.

[56BISON73]

I agree with everything except 1/2 of what I highlighted. the "crowd" was meh at best. Spent most of the game back behind the band and damn near got into a fight for yelling at people to stand up and cheer. Thank goodness one of my friends talked me out of it because I was literally starting to climb over EMPTY seats to get in the face of the person who told me to "sit down and shut up or they'd call security on me" apparently cheering is a bad thing to our fan base now?!? They didn't even make noise on 3rd down when ISU was on our side of the field... fucking pathetic.

Then I moved to a different spot next to EZQB in the opposite end zone. It was better over there, but even there a number of people behind us were sitting on their butts during the game.

Last year I made a post of SPL (sound pressure levels) and how it would be very hard to get "twice as loud" as we typically are. Well, I'm convinced if the 40% of the fans who don't get off their ass and cheer would be replaced with crickets we would be louder by a fairly sizable margin.

Also, a good portion of the dome emptied by halftime and never returned!

(sorry for being all pissed off, but I needed to vent)

Thats the problem--you, Mind your own business. Other fans will support the team in a manner that they choose. Not how you think they should to do it.

[BisonTeacher]

I dont get mad if people choose to sit. I get mad when they expect everyone else to sit...like last weekend at homecoming. The incident with longhorns buddy. Thats fine if you want to sit...but dont yell at people who are standing and cheering...especially when its 3rd down and we r on def. That was so wrong.

If you dont want people standing in front of you get front row seats or stay home.

[bri-dog]

The Bison's first play from scrimmage about summed up the offense's execution in my mind. Ojuri pretty much stood there with his thumb up his ass as the defender ran right around him untouched for the sack. And it wasn't play action, he was just supposed to pass block.

[CAS4127]

Right. You saw that, I saw that, and obviously Vigen saw that, so when a defense is committed to shutting down part of the field it creates other opportunities. Instead of exploiting options the Bison eliminated plays. Then they went back to running the same plays the DBs were jumping all over. My whole point is our offense's capacity can not be that limited.

In our last 2-3, maybe more, possession when we were running out of a postal-type set and faking draw to RB's, the RB was wide open up the middle--no one with 10 yards of him, but ball was never thrown. Also, the QB draw for two was way overdue and should have been run more. The short middle of field was there all day IMO, but was never attacked. Watch the second have and pay attention to RB's. Also, it is time for Dinwiddie I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[westnodak93bison]

In our last 2-3, maybe more, possession when we were running out of a postal-type set and faking draw to RB's, the RB was wide open up the middle--no one with 10 yards of him, but ball was never thrown. Also, the QB draw for two was way overdue and should have been run more. The short middle of field was there all day IMO, but was never attacked. Watch the second have and pay attention to RB's. Also, it is time for Dinwiddie I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree. They had 11 within 7 yds of the los many times. We also had 1 reception to a TE? The ole Simdorn to Geottle(spelling?) play was there for the taking imho.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Bisonguy]

Bitchfest 2012 posts moved to the smack forum. Any more of that shit here and they're getting deleted.

[BisonNation11]

Agree. They had 11 within 7 yds of the los many times. We also had 1 reception to a TE? The ole Simdorn to Geottle(spelling?) play was there for the taking imho.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

AGREED!!! There's nothing in the past that has proven our TE's are unable to make catches. In fact when called upon, I have been very impressed with the hands of the TE's. They are big, strong, and seem to be very athletic on their feet. And are usually WIDE OPEN in the middle of the field.

[IzzyFlexion]

Last time he was "sick" he rocked the heck out of GSU


The first pass play would have been 6 if it wasn't overthrown. The 2nd should not have been thrown. We were playing for the win! Tie??

Correct me if I'm wrong, Teach....but Semo....I think what he's getting at is not playing for the tie, rather, push the pile on 1st and 2nd down in an attempt to move the chains toward 6. Then; if that doesn't produce.....you still have the option for 3 and regroup for OT.

[56BISON73]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Teach....but Semo....I think what he's getting at is not playing for the tie, rather, push the pile on 1st and 2nd down in an attempt to move the chains toward 6. Then; if that doesn't produce.....you still have the option for 3 and regroup for OT.

Correct. You always play for the 7 but have to keep the option to get the three if it does work out.

[BisonTeacher]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Teach....but Semo....I think what he's getting at is not playing for the tie, rather, push the pile on 1st and 2nd down in an attempt to move the chains toward 6. Then; if that doesn't produce.....you still have the option for 3 and regroup for OT.

Im admittedly an armchair qb...but with the way that game was going and the way brock was playing... would have been happy wirh the tie. I like our chances in ot at home with our def.

And no i wasnt saying take a knee... i was saying run. If you get the first down... great keep rolling.. eat clock and score. We were in the drivers seat there no need to force a pass.

[stevdock]

I believe we started the drive with a run didn't we?? And it got maybe 2 yards. What was seen in the run game where you had confidence we could punch it in from the 29??

[BisonTeacher]

I believe we started the drive with a run didn't we?? And it got maybe 2 yards. What was seen in the run game where you had confidence we could punch it in from the 29??

Nothing...that's why i said run and take the fg. Woulda been better than what happened. And by that logic...did you see something in the passing game that made you confident in that?

[HerdBot]

In our last 2-3, maybe more, possession when we were running out of a postal-type set and faking draw to RB's, the RB was wide open up the middle--no one with 10 yards of him, but ball was never thrown. Also, the QB draw for two was way overdue and should have been run more. The short middle of field was there all day IMO, but was never attacked. Watch the second have and pay attention to RB's. Also, it is time for Dinwiddie I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was sitting in the stands telling my buddy to look for the famed middle screen... but we never once did it.

[Tatanka]

I was sitting in the stands telling my buddy to look for the famed middle screen... but we never once did it.you were SITTING? whoa. Mind blown.

[NorthernBison]

Nothing...that's why i said run and take the fg. Woulda been better than what happened. And by that logic...did you see something in the passing game that made you confident in that?

Easy to say with 20/20 hindsight.

We were on the 29 with a rookie kicker who has a hamstring problem. We have a QB who is known for his ability to make good decisions (who knew he would turn in to Tony Romo on that play?). We have a low risk passing game. Without Crockett, we didn't have a RB in the game who gets yards between the tackles consistently.

Playing for the tie is unacceptable. The correct approach was taken. Try to get first downs and move the ball to win the game by using the offense that has been successful.

[BisonTeacher]

Easy to say with 20/20 hindsight.

Yep...thats exactly what I said in post 7 of this thread.


I get what you are saying but hindsight is 20/20/ We lost. If we win...your statement trumps mine. at that point...the way we were playing...the tie would have been awesome.

[NorthernBison]

Yep...thats exactly what I said in post 7 of this thread.

Yeah, so what's your point? You NEVER get to see the final result before you make the decision.

You're assuming a field goal as in the bag. With no additional yards, it would have been a 46 yard try. Keller has impressed me so far and I have a certain degree of confidence in him but I don't believe in rolling the dice like that until necessary. Brock is our offensive leader and a proven winner. I'll defend the decison to put the game in his hands every time.

This team felt the pressure on Saturday. The offense (especially Brock) was pressing all game and especially at the end. You can see it in the bad decisions. Even the defense faltered at the end. Bell got about 2/3 of his yards right at the end.

[BisonTeacher]

Yeah, so what's your point? You NEVER get to see the final result before you make the decision.

You're assuming a field goal as in the bag. With no additional yards, it would have been a 46 yard try. Keller has impressed me so far and I have a certain degree of confidence in him but I don't believe in rolling the dice like that until necessary. Brock is our offensive leader and a proven winner. I'll defend the decison to put the game in his hands every time.

This team felt the pressure on Saturday. The offense (especially Brock) was pressing all game and especially at the end. You can see it in the bad decisions. Even the defense faltered at the end. Bell got about 2/3 of his yards right at the end.

The point is I felt we should have run the ball on at least one of the downs, and I am entitled to my opinion. If you don't like it....Im ok with that. I will live. The way brock was playing and with the way they were jumping our routes, I would have been fine with a FG there. (relying on our defense in OT? Im all in. ) I think that would have been the smart move with the way our offense had been playing all day. Even though I admitted hindsight is 20/20, I felt that before the pick happened.

So because we hadnt run the ball well all game we should abandon it there? Our running game didnt give up 14 points.

[tjamz]

yeah blame the fans. So what if a fan wants to watch the game that is their choice they paid for the ticket just like you did. Some people are not the rah rah type. Its a holes like you that start yelling at fans that give the ones who cheer a bad name.

Didn't "blame" the fans, though I won't apologize about being passionate about getting people off their asses and making noise. I won't apologize for screaming my heart out and asking those around me to do the same.... and when someone tells me to stop cheering or they'll call security and kick my ass if I don't stop yelling all the sudden I'm the ahole when I give them that exact opportunity by walking towards them? So be it.

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[56BISON73]

Didn't "blame" the fans, though I won't apologize about being passionate about getting people off their asses and making noise. I won't apologize for screaming my heart out and asking those around me to do the same.... and when someone tells me to stop cheering or they'll call security and kick my ass if I don't stop yelling all the sudden I'm the ahole when I give them that exact opportunity by walking towards them? So be it.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Its really simple. Be passionate and Cheer all you want. Just dont get in the face of other fans to do the same. Thats when you cross the line.

[tjamz]

Thats the problem--you, Mind your own business. Other fans will support the team in a manner that they choose. Not how you think they should to do it.

Based on what I typed initially I can certainly understand how people on here feel about me. And it was deserved. There was more to the story than that and I'll admit I should not have left my seat nor got into that argument in the first place.

[steelbison]

Here is what I saw Saturday. After three big games in a row we were over confident. Coach's and players. That said the defense played great!!! The only thing I didn't like was we were not getting any pressure on their QB.

Offensive side of the ball was one of the most predictable games we have ever seen. When we went to single WR sets they knew what play and where it was going, their line would shift and LB's would move up and snuff the play EVERY time.

Perfect oppourtunity for play action TE down the seam. Or a quick slant to the WR.

Brock played bad plain and simple. He stared down WR, threw to guys that were not open, missed #3 for the winning TD, just off.

My question is, where were the WR screens, HB in the flat, thought we would make adjustments at half and take advantage of the things they were trying to do on defense. Didn't see it. I bet we ran on 1st down almost every time. Also, I don't mind trying to run the ball on 3rd and 3 but only if you plan on going for it on 4th down.

It is what it is. just a bad game. Hopefully we learned a lesson like last year. Never overlook any opponent!!!

[56BISON73]

Based on what I typed initially I can certainly understand how people on here feel about me. And it was deserved. There was more to the story than that and I'll admit I should not have left my seat nor got into that argument in the first place.

Reps to you!!!!!

[tjamz]

Its really simple. Be passionate and Cheer all you want. Just dont get in the face of other fans to do the same. Thats when you cross the line.

After reading what I just wrote and thinking about it more, I agree. That was DUMB on my part. Really dumb actually, but I can't go back and undo it and I'm glad I didn't follow through (common sense eventually prevailed). I typically am not one to go looking for a fight, nor am I one to back down from one typically.

To clarify, I didn't "get in the face of them" to do the same. I turned around said something to the effect of "Come on fans, 3rd down make some NOIIIISEEEE" and did the arm flapping/raise the noise level motioning (there was no one directly behind me for several rows). I guess I don't see that as being too obnoxious.... especially not enough to have my ass kicked, but maybe others disagree.

[aces1180]

After reading what I just wrote and thinking about it more, I agree. That was DUMB on my part. Really dumb actually, but I can't go back and undo it and I'm glad I didn't follow through (common sense eventually prevailed). I typically am not one to go looking for a fight, nor am I one to back down from one typically.

To clarify, I didn't "get in the face of them" to do the same. I turned around said something to the effect of "Come on fans, 3rd down make some NOIIIISEEEE" and did the arm flapping/raise the noise level motioning (there was no one directly behind me for several rows). I guess I don't see that as being too obnoxious.... especially not enough to have my ass kicked, but maybe others disagree.

I have no issues with people standing during the game...I just don't understand (this is not directed specifically at you) why it is not acceptable to cheer while sitting down? I can make just as much noise while sitting in my seat as I can while standing...Once again, this not directed at you, but the topic itself warranted my two-cents.

[thundarsdaddy]

Brock was FAR from his old self tonight, but we DEFINITELY saw the Vigen we all know and love today. The freakin' safetys were playing inside all day. Anytime we came up to pass, they were in the Cover 2 scheme....which presumably is on Brock to call an audible. Or is he not allowed to do that in Vigen's offense? It was so predictable I could call the play without even looking at the formation. Again, you can't excuse 3 INTs but it's not like the coaches(ok, not "coaches" but whoever called the game) Brock was FAR from his old self tonight, but we DEFINITELY saw the Vigen we all know and love today. The freakin' safetys were playing inside all day. Anytime we came up to pass, they were in the Cover 2 scheme....which presumably is on Brock to call an audible. Or is he not allowed to do that in Vigen's offense? It was so predictable I could call the play without even looking at the formation. Again, you can't excuse 3 INTs but it's not like the coaches(ok, not "coaches" but whoever called the game) put him in a good position to make a play.

Baffling without question?
One thing I have to add, is that as bad as Brock was on saturday at TELEGRAPHING his passes, the coaches got horrible at TELEGRAPHING their plays to the defense. I have noticed the Bison were starting to repeat their old habit of substituting Nate Moody(#80) into the game for the regulars...Smith, Gebhardt and Vraaa basically. The Bison do this to give their regulars a "play-off" so keep them as fresh as possible, since the Bison throw so much it turns into a windsprint running event for the receivers and if you dont sub they are shot later in the game.
Trouble is...when #80 subs into the game, the ISU DB's knew it was going to be a running play so they moved up..looked in, the LB's all moved a lil bit closer, anticipating which "hole-to-fill", as it seems everyone KNEW it was gonna be a RUN!!! They used to do this same thing back in 2010, then corrected this last year, only to return to it this year. It was blatant against ISU in the second half. Now if Moody stayed in the game for a second play, the Bison might throw a pass, and you could see the DB's play for this, but if Moody came in to sub for just one play..for sure it was going to be a running play! Not exactly winning football!!

[56BISON73]

Baffling without question?
One thing I have to add, is that as bad as Brock was on saturday at TELEGRAPHING his passes, the coaches got horrible at TELEGRAPHING their plays to the defense. I have noticed the Bison were starting to repeat their old habit of substituting Nate Moody(#80) into the game for the regulars...Smith, Gebhardt and Vraaa basically. The Bison do this to give their regulars a "play-off" so keep them as fresh as possible, since the Bison throw so much it turns into a windsprint running event for the receivers and if you dont sub they are shot later in the game.
Trouble is...when #80 subs into the game, the ISU DB's knew it was going to be a running play so they moved up..looked in, the LB's all moved a lil bit closer, anticipating which "hole-to-fill", as it seems everyone KNEW it was gonna be a RUN!!! They used to do this same thing back in 2010, then corrected this last year, only to return to it this year. It was blatant against ISU in the second half. Now if Moody stayed in the game for a second play, the Bison might throw a pass, and you could see the DB's play for this, but if Moody came in to sub for just one play..for sure it was going to be a running play! Not exactly winning football!!

Why sub at all? Seriously there are many teams who dont sub at all or as much as we do and pass more. I have never understood the constant shuffling of players. You put on more yards running back and forth than you would keeping them in the game. Plus when you stay in the game you get a rhythm going and you get a better feel for the game.

[Siouxfallsbison]

2215We will be fine. Brock had a bad day. He was just a little off on his throws for some reason. When you still have a chance to win a game at the end, while throwing 2 picks for TD's, that has to be a good sign. Also, should have been a pass interfernce call on the last throw to the endzone. Official is standing right there. We will regroup and I feel sorry for USD!

[steelbison]

2215We will be fine. Brock had a bad day. He was just a little off on his throws for some reason. When you still have a chance to win a game at the end, while throwing 2 picks for TD's, that has to be a good sign. Also, should have been a pass interfernce call on the last throw to the endzone. Official is standing right there. We will regroup and I feel sorry for USD!

Totally agree! I had a perfect view of that play. #3 was grabbed before the ball was there no question!!


Let's go kick some USD ass!!!

[Mr. Burgundy]

2215We will be fine. Brock had a bad day. He was just a little off on his throws for some reason. When you still have a chance to win a game at the end, while throwing 2 picks for TD's, that has to be a good sign. Also, should have been a pass interfernce call on the last throw to the endzone. Official is standing right there. We will regroup and I feel sorry for USD!

Not having Bruhn and Grothman hurt....and not having Vraa in the 2nd half hurt. How good was the catch by #3 out there this weekend? Anyone a fan of #3? Haha. Great catch. He has stepped up this year. Fun to see him healthy! I am also very sorry for USD. Can we start the tailgate yet? I hate this feeling.

[heffray]

Its really simple. Be passionate and Cheer all you want. Just dont get in the face of other fans to do the same. Thats when you cross the line.

PL is right about this, sorry tjamz...

(i know, i know, PL being right, that never happens...)

[heffray]

I was sitting in the stands telling my buddy to look for the famed middle screen... but we never once did it.

Scotty and Phil repeated this sentiment more than a few times in the broadcast...

[heffray]

I have no issues with people standing during the game...I just don't understand (this is not directed specifically at you) why it is not acceptable to cheer while sitting down? I can make just as much noise while sitting in my seat as I can while standing...Once again, this not directed at you, but the topic itself warranted my two-cents.

Make fun of me all you want, but it is literally scientifically proven that you ARE louder when you stand. It has to do a little with the percussive nature of your body, but more to do with the way you are able to use your diaphram to project noise, both of which are at more of an optimum with you are standing. Also, if the person in front you is standing and you are sitting, you would be yelling into their back and not over their head, and this would probably make the biggest difference.

[TransAmBison]

I usually feel a loss can be a good motivator for a team. I think it was perfect for the team last year as they seemed get their focus back after that. I just didn't see them playing down, but I also did not see them making things happen. I do think that had a lot to do with the injuries, and the way ISU played. They could afford to stick everybody against the run with how well their corners played. I think this will be good for the coaches. Better they see weaknesses/opportunities now rather than in the playoffs.

[CAS4127]

I felt the cadence/tempo of our O was slow too. It has been like this a bit all year, so maybe I just felt it more with us being down. I recall the same thing last year about mid-late season. We need to start getting up to the ball quicker, especially after a good play/gainer, and keep the pressure on more. I know we have a very deliberate approach offensively, but wouldn't little quicker pace help some?!?!?

[Bison bison]

I usually feel a loss can be a good motivator for a team.


I agree. This philosophy is one known to military strategists as well.

While the goal is to win the war, you purposely lose a battle here and there to motivate the folks on the ground.

There are obviously many examples from history.

I mean it's pretty obvious that the Union purposely whiffed the First Battle of Bull Run.

[BisonNeil]

Baffling without question?
One thing I have to add, is that as bad as Brock was on saturday at TELEGRAPHING his passes, the coaches got horrible at TELEGRAPHING their plays to the defense. I have noticed the Bison were starting to repeat their old habit of substituting Nate Moody(#80) into the game for the regulars...Smith, Gebhardt and Vraaa basically. The Bison do this to give their regulars a "play-off" so keep them as fresh as possible, since the Bison throw so much it turns into a windsprint running event for the receivers and if you dont sub they are shot later in the game.
Trouble is...when #80 subs into the game, the ISU DB's knew it was going to be a running play so they moved up..looked in, the LB's all moved a lil bit closer, anticipating which "hole-to-fill", as it seems everyone KNEW it was gonna be a RUN!!! They used to do this same thing back in 2010, then corrected this last year, only to return to it this year. It was blatant against ISU in the second half. Now if Moody stayed in the game for a second play, the Bison might throw a pass, and you could see the DB's play for this, but if Moody came in to sub for just one play..for sure it was going to be a running play! Not exactly winning football!!

To dovetail with this, the Bison passed only once in a two WR formation that included Moody and Okland. They threw only once, completing a 30+ yd pass to Okland. When those two WRs went into the game, the four LBs really crowded the LOS. Fairly predictable.

[CAS4127]

To dovetail with this, the Bison passed only once in a two WR formation that included Moody and Okland. They threw only once, completing a 30+ yd pass to Okland. When those two WRs went into the game, the four LBs really crowded the LOS. Fairly predictable.

What you and thundersdaddy are pointing out are down/distance/player tendancies. Other teams evaluate these based upon film of us, and our offensive quality control guy is supposed to do that as well. The question is "Are OQC guy and Vigen doing this"? If so, WTH is going on? If not, then they damn well should be. Predictability will get you beat<--stating the obvious there.

[BisonNeil]

2215We will be fine. Brock had a bad day. He was just a little off on his throws for some reason. When you still have a chance to win a game at the end, while throwing 2 picks for TD's, that has to be a good sign. Also, should have been a pass interfernce call on the last throw to the endzone. Official is standing right there. We will regroup and I feel sorry for USD!

I agree that the Bison will regroup against USD.

But what troubles me are the continued difficulties this team has with a 3-4 alignment. I don't think the coaches scheme well against it, and I think the OL has significant problems knowing how to block. The OLBs came around the edge a lot against both Turner and Haeg.

So, while I am sure the Bison will do well against USD, Bubba Schweigert and his 3-4 defense with SIU loom on the horizon. When he sees the ISUb tape he will be licking his chops.

[ndsubison1]

Baffling without question?
One thing I have to add, is that as bad as Brock was on saturday at TELEGRAPHING his passes, the coaches got horrible at TELEGRAPHING their plays to the defense. I have noticed the Bison were starting to repeat their old habit of substituting Nate Moody(#80) into the game for the regulars...Smith, Gebhardt and Vraaa basically. The Bison do this to give their regulars a "play-off" so keep them as fresh as possible, since the Bison throw so much it turns into a windsprint running event for the receivers and if you dont sub they are shot later in the game.
Trouble is...when #80 subs into the game, the ISU DB's knew it was going to be a running play so they moved up..looked in, the LB's all moved a lil bit closer, anticipating which "hole-to-fill", as it seems everyone KNEW it was gonna be a RUN!!! They used to do this same thing back in 2010, then corrected this last year, only to return to it this year. It was blatant against ISU in the second half. Now if Moody stayed in the game for a second play, the Bison might throw a pass, and you could see the DB's play for this, but if Moody came in to sub for just one play..for sure it was going to be a running play! Not exactly winning football!!

its the same thing with cooper wahlo. when he is in it's either a run or a reverse with him

[NorthernBison]

The point is I felt we should have run the ball on at least one of the downs, and I am entitled to my opinion. If you don't like it....Im ok with that. I will live. The way brock was playing and with the way they were jumping our routes, I would have been fine with a FG there. (relying on our defense in OT? Im all in. ) I think that would have been the smart move with the way our offense had been playing all day. Even though I admitted hindsight is 20/20, I felt that before the pick happened.

So because we hadnt run the ball well all game we should abandon it there? Our running game didnt give up 14 points.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but you're making a bunch of assumptions. I didn't see a lot of routes getting "jumped". I saw good coverage because our passing game was short pretty much all day and they had 8 or 9 in the box most of the day and, unlike us, they had TWO corners who could cover.

Brock had a bad day for him but I didn't see him making a LOT of bad decisions. The first pick was an inaccurate throw. The second was tipped. The third pick was the bad decision and that hadn't even happened yet.

I commented before the play in question that we had to avoid a turnover. There is such a thing as fumbles on running plays too. I trusted Brock to not try to fit a ball into coverage. He actually had a back at the LOS wide open on the play and 5-7 yards was in the bag but he chose not to check it down. So, it's not the run or pass call that really mattered but the execution. Brock had a simple checkdown to a wide open back right in front of him and chose not to go there.

As for relying on our defense in OT, why do you make the assumption that it would come down to that? The same turnover by us in OT would result in ISU only needing a FG to win. Their kicker would be within range without them gaining a yard. Our decision to try scoring a TD in regulation results in the SAME type of playcalling that we would be using in OT to score a TD from the 25. I don't accept giving up the chance to win the game outright because of the real risks that are inherent in OT. (as a Viking fan you should remember well how bad things happen in OT).

I guaranty you that a couple run plays followed by a missed FG would have created a meltdown on this board of epic proportions.

[CAS4127]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but you're making a bunch of assumptions. I didn't see a lot of routes getting "jumped". I saw good coverage because our passing game was short pretty much all day and they had 8 or 9 in the box most of the day and, unlike us, they had TWO corners who could cover.

Brock had a bad day for him but I didn't see him making a LOT of bad decisions. The first pick was an inaccurate throw. The second was tipped. The third pick was the bad decision and that hadn't even happened yet.

I commented before the play in question that we had to avoid a turnover. There is such a thing as fumbles on running plays too. I trusted Brock to not try to fit a ball into coverage. He actually had a back at the LOS wide open on the play and 5-7 yards was in the bag but he chose not to check it down. So, it's not the run or pass call that really mattered but the execution. Brock had a simple checkdown to a wide open back right in front of him and chose not to go there.

As for relying on our defense in OT, why do you make the assumption that it would come down to that? The same turnover by us in OT would result in ISU only needing a FG to win. Their kicker would be within range without them gaining a yard. Our decision to try scoring a TD in regulation results in the SAME type of playcalling that we would be using in OT to score a TD from the 25. I don't accept giving up the chance to win the game outright because of the real risks that are inherent in OT. (as a Viking fan you should remember well how bad things happen in OT).

I guaranty you that a couple run plays followed by a missed FG would have created a meltdown on this board of epic proportions.

The meltdown wouldn't have been any different-->epic the way it was, including myself.

Also, you are spot on on the RB check down. It was there often actually. Both Brock and Vigen should have seen that as a legit option the second half. Neither did apparently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1st&TennBison]

Looking back at my recording of the game, I count six times where the RB was wide open 6-10 yards down field between the hash marks on failed pass plays of any sort including one of the pick 6 plays. Seemed like we totally dismissed the RB in that situation against ISU, but used it at least 2-4 times a game through the first 5 games. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the RB middle screen a go to play for DJ last year.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

Why sub at all? Seriously there are many teams who dont sub at all or as much as we do and pass more. I have never understood the constant shuffling of players. You put on more yards running back and forth than you would keeping them in the game. Plus when you stay in the game you get a rhythm going and you get a better feel for the game.

100% spot on. 20 yards in and 20 yards back out.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

Anyone else here notice how Brock has been forcing throws into double/triple coverage quite frequently at the expence of wide opens receivers this season? There have been numerous times where my son and I have looked at each other and said, "Wow, that was close. We got lucky on that one." Also, when Smith is in the game, Brock is going to throw to him, no matter how well he is covered and no matter how wide open the TE is. This was troubling for me but, who could argue with the results? Close to 70% pass completion, bunch of TD throws, and zero picks.

Well, apparently ISUb studied film and saw this as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but it looked like they put a shawdow on Smith. Anyway, the results were obvious. On Sat. Brock's luck ran out. The question going forward will be, "will he be able to correct his mistakes and find the open receiver or are other teams going to be able to feast on his obvious tendencies?" I guess time will tell.

[A1pigskin]

The offensive line was over powered. Too many QB sacks and hurries.
Is Brock's hammie worse than what is being said?

[gizmo]

1. I thought the fans were great! The silence in the dome when Bell was injured was just incredible. Way to go!
2. There were two very good football teams out there and both played their hearts out. It could have gone either way. A lot of the "mistakes" were caused by the other team.
3. I felt the Bison were moving the ball effectively on the ground but there wasn't enough patience with the running game. If we ran more, we could have possibly won the game fairly decisively.
4. ISU had a great pass defense.
5. NDSU has a GREAT defense. Period!
6. Not one attempt to block a punt even though the opportunities were there. A big special teams break was sorely needed.
7. I saw no indication of cockiness or lack of effort by the Bison. Sometimes, the ball just bounces the other way.

[BisonNation11]

7. I saw no indication of cockiness or lack of effort by the Bison. Sometimes, the ball just bounces the other way.

I also didn't see any aggression or desire to win the game on offense. It's like they waited for the big play to bail them out when they needed to come out and piss pound the trees and show them who's the boss. Great effort by Ind. St. in all phases of the game!