West Acres turns 40

[Hammerhead]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/369081/

I have very faint memories of Mom taking us to the department stores downtown before they all moved to Wasted Acres. My earliest memory from the mall was seeing the Freedom Train on the railroad tracks that used to run behind the mall. http://www.freedomtrain.org/american-freedom-train-home.htm

[344Johnson]

It seems really weird to think of people shopping downtown as a primary thing rather than as a fun little thing to do when on a vacation.

[BisonTeacher]

Speaking of old shopping memories....I will never forget the culture shock of coming to fargo in the early 90s and finding out that all the shopping/stores were closed on sundays by law.

[Tatanka]

Speaking of old shopping memories....I will never forget the culture shock of coming to fargo in the early 90s and finding out that all the shopping/stores were closed on sundays by law.I will never forget watching someone writing a check at McDonald's for a big mac combo in the mid 90s. where I grew up you couldn't write a check anywhere without ID and a merchants check cashing card, and you sure as hell couldn't do it at a fast food restaurant.

This also makes me remember the severe consequences of lack of vision. School district boundaries, anyone?

[BisonTeacher]

I will never forget watching someone writing a check at McDonald's for a big mac combo in the mid 90s. where I grew up you couldn't write a check anywhere without ID and a merchants check cashing card, and you sure as hell couldn't do it at a fast food restaurant.

This also makes me remember the severe consequences of lack of vision. School district boundaries, anyone?

The mcds check writer might have been me. I lived by checks in college. Never had cash. The only time i had cash was when i cashed a check at chubs. $5.25 check to giovannis for the college special plus tip. Checks to mini mart for late night chili dogs after a night at the turf...also paid for by check. ahhhh college life

[56BISON73]

I was in Fargo when they finished it. The Grainery was a GREAT restaurant.

[EPBison]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjF93E4LjlA

[BlueBisonRock]

Ahhh the memories. I had a girl friend who lived in an apartment on 13th Ave S. Only then, when you got off of I29 and turned into Fargo, 13th was a two lane gravel road. Of course, the bridge over the rail yard on 12th Ave N was an old wooden two lane (barely) structure that felt like it was going down on the way out to I29.

[56BISON73]

Ahhh the memories. I had a girl friend who lived in an apartment on 13th Ave S. Only then, when you got off of I29 and turned into Fargo, 13th was a two lane gravel road. Of course, the bridge over the rail yard on 12th Ave N was an old wooden two lane (barely) structure that felt like it was going down on the way out to I29.

Every time I drive 12th av I remember that wooden bridge. Was the road that went in front of Ricks Bar paved? There werent too many out there that were.

[KSBisonFan]

I was in Fargo when they finished it. The Grainery was a GREAT restaurant.

I almost forgot about the Grainery......I seem to remember their kick-ass beer cheese soup????

[Bison 4 Life]

West Acres and I are only a few weeks apart but I remember when I was a kid all the space that existed not only between Fargo and West Fargo but Moorhead and Dilworth. It seemed like you drove forever to get from one to the other, now it's all filled in and it just seems like the street signs change.

[Bison Dan]

West Acres and I are only a few weeks apart but I remember when I was a kid all the space that existed not only between Fargo and West Fargo but Moorhead and Dilworth. It seemed like you drove forever to get from one to the other, now it's all filled in and it just seems like the street signs change.
I was at NDSU when it opened. I remember driving south on university and turning right on 13th av heading West and coming to about 25th and there was a new road (13th) going through a wheat field out to I-29. I thought why the hell are they building roads through wheat fields. Man I wish I had some money back then you could have bought those acres fairly cheap. The old farm at 13th and 45th I think was the last to go.

[tjbison]

Hell in 2000 45th st s from I94 south was gravel, and they didn't build the 42nd st overpass and road till 2001 so just look at how fast it's grown south and west of 29 and 94

[BisonNation11]

I remember coming up from Minneapolis as a kid to visit family, and seeing Builders Square on 13th Ave. and 45th St. in the middle of nowhere. I mean NOWHERE!!!

[Hammerhead]

I worked at the first Arby's in Fargo on 13th Ave. near 28th St. It was hardly even worth opening on Sundays before the mall was open.




Speaking of old shopping memories....I will never forget the culture shock of coming to fargo in the early 90s and finding out that all the shopping/stores were closed on sundays by law.

[Bison 4 Life]

Speaking of old shopping memories....I will never forget the culture shock of coming to fargo in the early 90s and finding out that all the shopping/stores were closed on sundays by law.

The holiday station on Main ave near my old neighborhood used to have to rope off sections on Sunday to prevent you from buying certain items.

[gabe]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/369081/

I have very faint memories of Mom taking us to the department stores downtown before they all moved to Wasted Acres. My earliest memory from the mall was seeing the Freedom Train on the railroad tracks that used to run behind the mall. http://www.freedomtrain.org/american-freedom-train-home.htm

Goes from Wasted Acres to a retail mecca.

[roadwarrior]

The Mall of America celebrates 20 years next month.

[Gully]

I was at NDSU when it opened.

WOW, you must be old. When did NDSU open again? :)

[TheBisonator]

When it opened, West Acres was on the far periphery of the city. Now if you look at a new map of F-M, you'll see it's literally in the middle of the city.

[IzzyFlexion]

I was at NDSU when it opened.

Are you the dude tickling that other dude's right moob?

http://www.bisonillustrated.com/a/489.jpg

sorry. Forgot to preface post with "asshole jokey boy warning"

[56BISON73]

I almost forgot about the Grainery......I seem to remember their kick-ass beer cheese soup????

Correct. They used to serve it in little metal caldrons. Great stuff. The prime rib and the grilled shrimp were excellent.

[roadwarrior]

I wonder if any other store besides Sears has been in the same location in the mall under the same name for the 40 years?

[Hammerhead]

Here's what the Fargo-Moorhead area looked like in 1985.

http://www.bisonville.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1917&d=1343833598

1917

[TheBisonator]

Here's what the Fargo-Moorhead area looked like in 1985.

http://www.bisonville.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1917&d=1343833598

1917

Wow. It was probably only 60 percent of the size that it is now...

[OrygunBison]

It seems really weird to think of people shopping downtown as a primary thing rather than as a fun little thing to do when on a vacation.

What's weird to me is the strange nostalgia that some feel for the mall, rather than the sadness of what it's creation did to downtown. West Acres and the surrounding area have made Fargo into the picture perfect model of "Anywhere, USA". Had the city any foresight, they would have encouraged the developer to build heavily in downtown. In architecture school, there were stories of the original developer wanting to be in the city's core but they made it too hard. I think they built outside of the city limits to escape the costs/hassle. (I've never confirmed this but there were instructors of mine that I am paraphrasing now.) This is a common theme throughout America and is a core reason why most of our cities really suck. We've turned our back on what makes each one of them special and have opted for a watered-down Disneyland of architecture as a result.

When I was in Fargo last December for the playoffs, I was happy to see some of the investment that has been made downtown. It is wonderful and it seems that there is some momentum to continue it.

[tjbison]

What's weird to me is the strange nostalgia that some feel for the mall, rather than the sadness of what it's creation did to downtown. West Acres and the surrounding area have made Fargo into the picture perfect model of "Anywhere, USA". Had the city any foresight, they would have encouraged the developer to build heavily in downtown. In architecture school, there were stories of the original developer wanting to be in the city's core but they made it too hard. I think they built outside of the city limits to escape the costs/hassle. (I've never confirmed this but there were instructors of mine that I am paraphrasing now.) This is a common theme throughout America and is a core reason why most of our cities really suck. We've turned our back on what makes each one of them special and have opted for a watered-down Disneyland of architecture as a result.

When I was in Fargo last December for the playoffs, I was happy to see some of the investment that has been made downtown. It is wonderful and it seems that there is some momentum to continue it.

Well with the mall being where it is the growth it created was far greater than if it had been downtown...right on the 2 interstates for visibility and access. I would not have been in favor of spending the money downtown then either

[Hammersmith]

What's weird to me is the strange nostalgia that some feel for the mall, rather than the sadness of what it's creation did to downtown. West Acres and the surrounding area have made Fargo into the picture perfect model of "Anywhere, USA". Had the city any foresight, they would have encouraged the developer to build heavily in downtown. In architecture school, there were stories of the original developer wanting to be in the city's core but they made it too hard. I think they built outside of the city limits to escape the costs/hassle. (I've never confirmed this but there were instructors of mine that I am paraphrasing now.) This is a common theme throughout America and is a core reason why most of our cities really suck. We've turned our back on what makes each one of them special and have opted for a watered-down Disneyland of architecture as a result.

When I was in Fargo last December for the playoffs, I was happy to see some of the investment that has been made downtown. It is wonderful and it seems that there is some momentum to continue it.
That story was in the first of the four Forum articles.


But by 1966, Sears had outgrown its confines, and the building had no more room to accommodate expansion. Bill Schlossman, George Black’s son-in-law, who was managing the building and other downtown properties, started looking for a new home to bring the department store and a handful of other scattered shops together in one location.

Location, location ...

A champion of downtown business, Schlossman first proposed a shopping center at the foot of Broadway, near the current location of the YMCA’s Fercho Branch and the Fargo High Rise tower.

But the city turned him and his partners down in favor of other projects. Brad Schlossman, Bill’s son and the current chief executive of West Acres Development, said the rejection was likely a blessing.

“Right now, this would be on deadmalls.com,” Brad Schlossman said, referring to a website that catalogs failed shopping centers. The space “is nowhere near big enough, and then the accessibility would have been a problem.”


From part 2 of the series:

Moorhead suffered much the same fate, compounded by a decision to bet heavily on the downtown mall concept Fargo had rejected. As West Acres was being built, Moorhead tore up much of its own downtown to make way for the Moorhead Center Mall, which opened in 1973 as a shopping center attached to City Hall.

The project was spurred in part by federal dollars earmarked for urban renewal projects, said Lanning, the longtime Moorhead mayor. Like West Acres, it was seen as a new, centralized home for scattered retailers.

But while West Acres thrived from opening day, the Moorhead Center Mall stumbled out of the blocks and never quite caught fire.

The lack of a department store hurt early on. The mall went without one until Eckstein’s, a regional store, opened in 1980. Herberger’s, the current anchor tenant and the mall’s most prestigious draw, didn’t come until 1983.

Unlike West Acres, the mall was tucked far from easy access to the interstate. In Lanning’s view, it was literally on the wrong side of the tracks, cut off from the southern portion of the city by not one but two sets of railroad lines carrying dozens of trains a day.

“That’s a barrier,” Lanning said. “Knowing what we all know today about railroad traffic, I think Moorhead would’ve been better off if its redevelopment had occurred south of Main Avenue instead of north,” he said.

All four parts to the Forum series on West Acres:
West Acres Turns 40: How a remote field became Fargo’s retail giant (Part 1 of 4) (http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/369081)
West Acres Turns 40: Booming mall shifted action to the west (Part 2 of 4) (http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/369216)
West Acres Turns 40: A business balancing act (Part 3 of 4) (http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/369325)
West Acres Turns 40: Mall an always evolving commercial circus (Part 4 of 4) (http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/369446)

[cbline]

This also makes me remember the severe consequences of lack of vision. School district boundaries, anyone?

I am an employee of the West Fargo School District, and the topic of the development west of I-29 in the District comes up quite regularly. Here is the history, as I recall. Someone with more knowledge feel free to add more facts:

1. Long ago, school districts expanded when city limits expanded. The Fargo School District took a "bite" out of the West Fargo School District when Fargo annexed the 12th Ave business park on the west side of I-29. If you look at the school districts' maps, you will see that one "peninsula" off of the rest of the Fargo District.

2. In response to losing land in the West Fargo District, West Fargo State Rep. Lodoen introduced legislation that kept boundaries as they were at the time of passage. As a result, the rest of the land generally west of I-29 remained in the West Fargo School District, even when the city limits of Fargo expanded into that area.

3. I have heard people in Fargo say, "Give us back West Acres for the School District." This is a curious statement, as that area never was in the Fargo School District. How could they receive an area back when that area had NEVER been served by the Fargo School District?

[tjbison]

I am an employee of the West Fargo School District, and the topic of the development west of I-29 in the District comes up quite regularly. Here is the history, as I recall. Someone with more knowledge feel free to add more facts:

1. Long ago, school districts expanded when city limits expanded. The Fargo School District took a "bite" out of the West Fargo School District when Fargo annexed the 12th Ave business park on the west side of I-29. If you look at the school districts' maps, you will see that one "peninsula" off of the rest of the Fargo District.

2. In response to losing land in the West Fargo District, West Fargo State Rep. Lodoen introduced legislation that kept boundaries as they were at the time of passage. As a result, the rest of the land generally west of I-29 remained in the West Fargo School District, even when the city limits of Fargo expanded into that area.

3. I have heard people in Fargo say, "Give us back West Acres for the School District." This is a curious statement, as that area never was in the Fargo School District. How could they receive an area back when that area had NEVER been served by the Fargo School District?

It also really pisses Xcel energy off because I believe Cass County electric has 13th ave and south in Fargo and West Fargo

[IndyBison]

When I moved to Indy in 1994 the downtown was fairly dead. It was busy during the day with office staff but there was very little activity in the evening. When Dick Lugar was mayor in the 70s he conceived a downtown mall but it took several years for the plans to evolve. In the Fall of 1995 Circle Centre Mall opened and was largely responsible for the growth and development of downtown.

It helped that Captain Comeback (Jim Harbaugh) excited Colts fans with an AFC Championship run. Then Conseco Fieldhouse opened and the Pacers made the NBA Finals. The final thrust was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Both franchises are evidence of what major sports can do for a city. Throw in a string of Final Fours and Indy is now a solid contender in the convention business. This year's Super Bowl was the pinnacle of those efforts. But it all started with the mall.

Now there are several nice, new hotels, several high end restaurants, and constant activity. It's now cool to live downtown with several new or remodeled homes and lots of condos.

[EndZoneQB]

When I moved to Indy in 1994 the downtown was fairly dead. It was busy during the day with office staff but there was very little activity in the evening. When Dick Lugar was mayor in the 70s he conceived a downtown mall but it took several years for the plans to evolve. In the Fall of 1995 Circle Centre Mall opened and was largely responsible for the growth and development of downtown.

It helped that Captain Comeback (Jim Harbaugh) excited Colts fans with an AFC Championship run. Then Conseco Fieldhouse opened and the Pacers made the NBA Finals. The final thrust was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Both franchises are evidence of what major sports can do for a city. Throw in a string of Final Fours and Indy is now a solid contender in the convention business. This year's Super Bowl was the pinnacle of those efforts. But it all started with the mall.

Now there are several nice, new hotels, several high end restaurants, and constant activity. It's now cool to live downtown with several new or remodeled homes and lots of condos.

If city planners had let the interstates be built close to downtown, it might be a different conversation for Fargo. You know what was a big factor in killing downtown...and as the city gets bigger, it's only going to get worse.

[tjbison]

If city planners had let the interstates be built close to downtown, it might be a different conversation for Fargo. You know what was a big factor in killing downtown...and as the city gets bigger, it's only going to get worse.

Exactly access to downtown is terrible and without major design and financial costs it will remain as is and downtown will suffer

[EndZoneQB]

Exactly access to downtown is terrible and without major design and financial costs it will remain as is and downtown will suffer

This brings me to the next point. We shouldn't be turning NP/1st Ave N into two-way streets.

[Tatanka]

This brings me to the next point. We shouldn't be turning NP/1st Ave N into two-way streets.

This. They'll figure that out within a year of making te switch, and the taxpayers will get to pay for it all over again. Broadway pedestrian mall round two.

[TheBisonator]

This. They'll figure that out within a year of making te switch, and the taxpayers will get to pay for it all over again. Broadway pedestrian mall round two.

They need to build some type of overpass/interstate spur into downtown from I-29. But it might be so expensive to build that the ROI may not be worth it.

[Hammersmith]

They need to build some type of overpass/interstate spur into downtown from I-29. But it might be so expensive to build that the ROI may not be worth it.
I think 7th might eventually become an interchange and provide access to downtown. It's getting rebuilt into a 4-lane overpass this summer. It's not on any list of future ND DOT projects, so it's not going to happen in the next 5-7 years, but I still think it's likely in the long-term.

I think I'm one of the few that think the 1st/NP Ave projects are not going to crash and burn, but I wouldn't be shocked to be wrong. I would love to see a perimeter set of roads upgraded around downtown to provide a ring of access. I was thinking Main to the south, 2nd to the east, 7th to the north, and 10th/Uni to the west. Taking things another step further, I'd like to lose the McDonalds on Main as well as the Safelite business on the opposite corner to allow for full, direct access from Main to 10th without having to go a block south first. I think that could smooth traffic flow around downtown. Pretty darn expensive, though.

[Tatanka]

I think 7th might eventually become an interchange and provide access to downtown. It's getting rebuilt into a 4-lane overpass this summer. It's not on any list of future ND DOT projects, so it's not going to happen in the next 5-7 years, but I still think it's likely in the long-term.

I think I'm one of the few that think the 1st/NP Ave projects are not going to crash and burn, but I wouldn't be shocked to be wrong. I would love to see a perimeter set of roads upgraded around downtown to provide a ring of access. I was thinking Main to the south, 2nd to the east, 7th to the north, and 10th/Uni to the west. Taking things another step further, I'd like to lose the McDonalds on Main as well as the Safelite business on the opposite corner to allow for full, direct access from Main to 10th without having to go a block south first. I think that could smooth traffic flow around downtown. Pretty darn expensive, though.I think an interchange at 7th is out of the question as it is too close to both main and 12th to meet federal highway standards. I think it's only a half mile between main and 7th and another half mile to 12th. I think the spacing standard is one mile in "urban" areas.

I hope np and 1st is a success but I'm not holding out much hope. It has the faint whiff of change for changes sake IMHO.

[Hammersmith]

I think an interchange at 7th is out of the question as it is too close to both main and 12th to meet federal highway standards. I think it's only a half mile between main and 7th and another half mile to 12th. I think the spacing standard is one mile in "urban" areas.

I hope np and 1st is a success but I'm not holding out much hope. It has the faint whiff of change for changes sake IMHO.
You're right. The minimum is one mile in urban settings. There goes that dream. Okay, how about a connection between 12th and 7th either using the road next to the truck stop or a new road just before the trailer park behind Stop-N-Go? Let me go super-stupid for a moment. Let's relocate the downtown railroad tracks to go around Fargo and use the space to create a new artery straight to downtown. With the rail yard gone, the 12th Ave viaduct would no longer be needed and that's where the connection to the new street could go. It's foolproof.

Okay, time to follow the breadcrumbs back to reality.

[Hammerhead]

I don't think there was ever a chance that I-94 would have been routed downtown when there was nothing but farmland 2 miles to the south when the routes were planned in the late '40s and 50s. Can't you have 2 exits leaving the freeway at the same spot and then have the exits branch off in different directions.

[Tatanka]

I don't think there was ever a chance that I-94 would have been routed downtown when there was nothing but farmland 2 miles to the south when the routes were planned in the late '40s and 50s. Can't you have 2 exits leaving the freeway at the same spot and then have the exits branch off in different directions.

Yes, you could. Doubt the cost/benefit ratio would be there though.

[EndZoneQB]

I don't think there was ever a chance that I-94 would have been routed downtown when there was nothing but farmland 2 miles to the south when the routes were planned in the late '40s and 50s. Can't you have 2 exits leaving the freeway at the same spot and then have the exits branch off in different directions.

I guess I thought I had read an article about how the city specifically pushed the interstates away from the downtown core.

[80ALUM]

Correct. They used to serve it in little metal caldrons. Great stuff. The prime rib and the grilled shrimp were excellent.
They served free peanuts in the bar and you could throw peanut shells on the floor. We used to go there because a friend bartended and he made great "Skips". They served them in the big schooners.
I remember after checking into my dorm Freshman year my mom & dad taking me downtown to JCPenneys to buy my towels & bedding.

[56BISON73]

They served free peanuts in the bar and you could throw peanut shells on the floor. We used to go there because a friend bartended and he made great "Skips". They served them in the big schooners.
I remember after checking into my dorm Freshman year my mom & dad taking me downtown to JCPenneys to buy my towels & bedding.

I still have one of those schooners packed away somewhere. Remember the peanuts. Who ever heard of FREE peanuts back then. LOL I loved the place.