For the folks who don't like the Big Sky's Fullerton

[tony]

It wasn't his fault (The university presidents were the ones who voted, after all.)

http://www.kpax.com/news/big-sky-thriving-a-midst-college-conference-changes/


The Big Sky Conference last expanded in 2005 when Northern Colorado joined. But during that same year the conference decided not to invite North Dakota State and South Dakota State.

They both would have added strong teams to the league. In the last year alone, the Bison won the FCS National Championship, and the Jackrabbits men's and women's basketball teams earned a trip to the NCAA tournament.

Fullerton sounds regretful when reliving that decision. "I wasn't able to put together enough votes. I didn't do a good enough job of letting presidents see the vision."

[DePereBisonFan]

"I've been around this a long time. I'd rather win than lose. So, I'd rather be first than last anytime. You look at Idaho, it's a tragedy. They were so competitive in the Big Sky, year in and year out. You know, they've had one successful season since they moved to Division I," Griz football coach Mick Delaney said.

So FCS is not division I, then, coach?

...So coaches at some of the most well known FCS schools don't even consider us DI?

[56BISON73]

"I've been around this a long time. I'd rather win than lose. So, I'd rather be first than last anytime. You look at Idaho, it's a tragedy. They were so competitive in the Big Sky, year in and year out. You know, they've had one successful season since they moved to Division I," Griz football coach Mick Delaney said.

So FCS is not division I, then, coach?

...So coaches at some of the most well known FCS schools don't even consider us DI?

There will always be that stigma when you play in a lower sub division.

[EagleBison]

Word on the street in Montana at the time, was that NDSU was too good of a program for the conference. Not that Fullerton said it, but too many of the other schools may have felt that way.

[tjbison]

Word on the street in Montana at the time, was that NDSU was too good of a program for the conference. Not that Fullerton said it, but too many of the other schools may have felt that way.

Which explains why they have allowed UND and SUU into the conference

[WYOBISONMAN]

Which explains why they have allowed UND and SUU into the conference

Two marginal FB programs that the Griz figure they can thump. Although, once this nickname stuff is behind UND, they very well could start whacking Grizzlies.

[NorthernBison]

Two marginal FB programs that the Griz figure they can thump. Although, once this nickname stuff is behind UND, they very well could start whacking Grizzlies.

Yeah, anybody in Missoula that thinks UND will be an easy win is forgetting history. Their ranked Griz lost to a transitioning NDSU program that, at the time, was not superior to UND. No reason to think they won't get their again.

[HerdBot]

Yeah, anybody in Missoula that thinks UND will be an easy win is forgetting history. Their ranked Griz lost to a transitioning NDSU program that, at the time, was not superior to UND. No reason to think they won't get their again.

Any of the 4 Dakota schools would have been right up at the top. Strangely enough many considered Northern Colorado a superior team at the time. What the heck happened to a once solid UNC program?

[Hammersmith]

Any of the 4 Dakota schools would have been right up at the top. Strangely enough many considered Northern Colorado a superior team at the time. What the heck happened to a once solid UNC program?
The Coors family/company never followed through on the major donation that they pledged around the time UNC announced their DI move. The athletic dept was counting on that money to fund the transition. I think it was supposed to be something like a million a year for quite a few years. Don't know why it fell through.

Rumor adds the Colorado Rockies to the list of major donors that didn't follow through.

[The_Sicatoka]

Two marginal FB programs that the Griz figure they can thump. Although, once this nickname stuff is behind UND, they very well could start whacking Grizzlies.


Yeah, anybody in Missoula that thinks UND will be an easy win is forgetting history. Their ranked Griz lost to a transitioning NDSU program that, at the time, was not superior to UND. No reason to think they won't get their again.

If you guys keep saying even marginally nice things about UND Football and you'll get your Bisonville decoder rings taken away by aces1180. ;)

UND Football needs to see a full FCS schedule before I start thinking about "whacking" FCS playoff teams. The wear and grind isn't the same in transition.

[dragonsfan]

once again, pure delusion

[NorthernBison]

once again, pure delusion

Apparently Lakes is impressed with the depth of the Big Sky. I'm not.

[dragonsfan]

im not lakes, im just not on here much and no i meant people thinking und will be able to compete with montana.

[tony]

im not lakes, im just not on here much and no i meant people thinking und will be able to compete with montana.

Have you been following the Montana football saga? They've gone through a lot of turmoil. The 2012 Grizzly team might not be anything like the 2011 team. They're going to have an untested QB and a new coach.

[Bison Dan]

Have you been following the Montana football saga? They've gone through a lot of turmoil. The 2012 Grizzly team might not be anything like the 2011 team. They're going to have an untested QB and a new coach.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/um-griz-qb-still-on-football-roster-enrolled-for-fall/article_9ec59570-a9b3-11e1-bc72-001a4bcf887a.html

[NorthernBison]

im not lakes, im just not on here much and no i meant people thinking und will be able to compete with montana.

Our 2003 DII non-playoff qualifier (that lost to UND) was victorious over a then #3 ranked D1-AA Montana team in Missoula. Over the last 40 years or so that I've followed Bison football, I've seen us have stretches of dominating UND and stretches where they seemed to have us figured out pretty well. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. UND will asolutely compete with Montana in the future.

[IndyBison]

"I've been around this a long time. I'd rather win than lose. So, I'd rather be first than last anytime. You look at Idaho, it's a tragedy. They were so competitive in the Big Sky, year in and year out. You know, they've had one successful season since they moved to Division I," Griz football coach Mick Delaney said.

So FCS is not division I, then, coach?

...So coaches at some of the most well known FCS schools don't even consider us DI?
From an officiating standpoint (I know you guys hate to hear that perspective), getting hired by the MVFC is considered Division I and a huge accomplishment. Moving to the MAC is considered a significant jump although many of you don't feel that is the case. There are MFVC teams that can and do beat MAC teams but top to bottom the MAC is better than the MVFC. For guys who have done it the general difference in quality of football between the MVFC and MAC is similar to the difference between the MAC and Big Ten. The major difference is attendance. One of friend is jumping from the MAC to the Big Ten this year and he said the attendance at all his MAC games last year combined will be less than one game at Michigan or Ohio State.

[344Johnson]

Our 2003 DII non-playoff qualifier (that lost to UND) was victorious over a then #3 ranked D1-AA Montana team in Missoula. Over the last 40 years or so that I've followed Bison football, I've seen us have stretches of dominating UND and stretches where they seemed to have us figured out pretty well. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. UND will asolutely compete with Montana in the future.

The Big Sky generally has about 2-3 good teams and a bunch of very average teams right? It is different from the Valley where a team like NDSU in 2010 can make a playoff run, where Youngstown State can somehow beat us and lose close games. I think after a couple years UND will be in a tier below Montana, but that doesn't mean they won't still win some of the games. It is going to be hard for anyone in the Sky to get a leg up on Montana consistently with the football program/stadium/fans/support that they have built. Montana State is probably the closest to that? EWU, for some reason or another tends to be good, and UND/Cal Poly I think will make things a bit more interesting.

UND is a strange program. I am a bit younger than you guys, but my dad sort of implied that during the 90's some of those NDSU teams just didn't play at the level they normally would have. And the UND team would play the way they normally would. Hence, NDSU would lose. Still remember the '99? game. I think it was '99. Tim Strehlo(sp?) caught a huge pass at the start. NDSU proceeded to fumble inside the 10 numberous times, and lose a close one. Shit like that. Dumb. Heartbreaking.

rant over.

[BadlandsBison]

Physical play = the doom of the big sky. That's why Montana usually wins in teh fluffy, they play most physically.

If the whiouxsers wanna try and win a track meet, it'll be years before they can make into the play-offs. If they can pound the ball in their much heralded piss-tol offense then by gosh gosh there is hope for them.

[abc123]

The Big Sky generally has about 2-3 good teams and a bunch of very average teams right? It is different from the Valley where a team like NDSU in 2010 can make a playoff run, where Youngstown State can somehow beat us and lose close games. I think after a couple years UND will be in a tier below Montana, but that doesn't mean they won't still win some of the games. It is going to be hard for anyone in the Sky to get a leg up on Montana consistently with the football program/stadium/fans/support that they have built. Montana State is probably the closest to that? EWU, for some reason or another tends to be good, and UND/Cal Poly I think will make things a bit more interesting.

UND is a strange program. I am a bit younger than you guys, but my dad sort of implied that during the 90's some of those NDSU teams just didn't play at the level they normally would have. And the UND team would play the way they normally would. Hence, NDSU would lose. Still remember the '99? game. I think it was '99. Tim Strehlo(sp?) caught a huge pass at the start. NDSU proceeded to fumble inside the 10 numberous times, and lose a close one. Shit like that. Dumb. Heartbreaking.

rant over.
Both conferences have their strong teams, some average ones and a dog or two every year. Both are very strong conferences and which one can be considered the better one varies from year to year.

Your second paragraph makes no sense. You (or your dad I guess) is saying that NDSU didn't play to the level they supposedly normally would have while UND did, yet you are saying UND is a strange program? And this went on for a whole decade?

[NorthernBison]

The primary reason why the Bison regressed in the 90's was the reduction in scholarships at the DII level. Rocky predicted that the NCC would get real competitive real fast due to the reductions. He nailed that one as good as Nostradamus.

IF UND fully funds their FCS football program, they will be top third of the Big Sky without a doubt.

The top two or three teams in the Big Sky and the MVFC are typically about the same caliber every year. In that sense, the conferences arent that different

[The_Sicatoka]

I've defined how UND can win in the Big Sky:

Pound the ball
Pound the ball
Over the top
Repeat

UND needs to run to set up the pass (and to keep the other teams' offenses off the field). Too many BSC teams want to play what looks like run and shoot* mindset football. You beat that style by beating on them (run game) and ball possession.


*If you used to run the "run and shoot" but have changed offenses since, does that mean your offense in the past was the "ran and shat"?

[Bison bison]

A lot of truth in that, Sic.

[344Johnson]

Your second paragraph makes no sense. You (or your dad I guess) is saying that NDSU didn't play to the level they supposedly normally would have while UND did, yet you are saying UND is a strange program? And this went on for a whole decade?

Good point, I could edit it and maybe say that UND brought out the mediocrity in the Bison and turned NDSU into the 'strange program' for one week a year.

@NorthernBison - Isn't that a sad deal? Reducing the scholarships has made D-II a joke.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I've defined how UND can win in the Big Sky:

Pound the ball
Pound the ball
Over the top
Repeat

UND needs to run to set up the pass (and to keep the other teams' offenses off the field). Too many BSC teams want to play what looks like run and shoot* mindset football. You beat that style by beating on them (run game) and ball possession.


*If you used to run the "run and shoot" but have changed offenses since, does that mean your offense in the past was the "ran and shat"?

It is possible that if UND gets its together somewhat this season that the debut in the Sky could be very interesting. I think Montana will not be a factor this season due the the "Missoula Shit Show" that is going on west of the divide.

[Herd]

The primary reason why the Bison regressed in the 90's was the reduction in scholarships at the DII level. Rocky predicted that the NCC would get real competitive real fast due to the reductions. He nailed that one as good as Nostradamus.

IF UND fully funds their FCS football program, they will be top third of the Big Sky without a doubt.

The top two or three teams in the Big Sky and the MVFC are typically about the same caliber every year. In that sense, the conferences arent that different

Absolutely true . . . the bison moved to DI to get out of a situation where the program was stunted in its growth, and couldn't use it's advantages in recruiting, support and fan base to be successful anymore. There could come a time where move to the 85 scholarship level is the right move also, we will see.

[The_Sicatoka]

If you folks hated Fullerton before, what'll you think of him if he pulls off the unthinkable and gets (FBS) Idaho to return to the Big Sky?

http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/07/16/bigger-big-sky-looks-add-one-more?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+standard%2Ffrontpage+(Standar d-Examiner+Latest+Headlines)

[missingnumber7]

If you folks hated Fullerton before, what'll you think of him if he pulls off the unthinkable and gets (FBS) Idaho to return to the Big Sky?

http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/07/16/bigger-big-sky-looks-add-one-more?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+standard%2Ffrontpage+(Standar d-Examiner+Latest+Headlines)You say that like A) We want into the Big Sky and B) Like getting Idaho is a big gain. Getting Idaho to rejoin the big sky is like winning a fat man contest yea you won, but you're still fat.

[aces1180]

If you folks hated Fullerton before, what'll you think of him if he pulls off the unthinkable and gets (FBS) Idaho to return to the Big Sky?

http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/07/16/bigger-big-sky-looks-add-one-more?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+standard%2Ffrontpage+(Standar d-Examiner+Latest+Headlines)

Good for the Big Sky?

[bisonmike2]

If you folks hated Fullerton before, what'll you think of him if he pulls off the unthinkable and gets (FBS) Idaho to return to the Big Sky?

http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/07/16/bigger-big-sky-looks-add-one-more?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+standard%2Ffrontpage+(Standar d-Examiner+Latest+Headlines)

Stabilizes the Big Sky in case Montana leaves but with all the crap going on with Montana it's less likely they'll be going anywhere anytime soon.

[Tatanka]

45 - 0

[tony]

It'd be good for the FCS and the Big Sky!

[The_Sicatoka]

Good for the Big Sky?

Idaho would put the BSC at 12 full members (plus FB affiliates Cal Poly and UC-Davis). I could see that as good for the BSC.

[aces1180]

Idaho would put the BSC at 12 full members (plus FB affiliates Cal Poly and UC-Davis). I could see that as good for the BSC.

I don't see why you think NDSU fans would hate Fullerton because of this? It's good for the BSC and FCS. It's not like Idaho was going to join the Summit or MVFC.

[The_Sicatoka]

It'd be good for the FCS and the Big Sky!

It would be good for FCS.
It'd be good precedent for all the schools out there bleeding cash pretending to be FBS against the $100 million plus athletic budgets at Ohio State, Texas, and the SEC.

[The_Sicatoka]

I don't see why you think NDSU fans would hate Fullerton because of this?

Based on thread title, I figured you folks just hated Fullerton. If I misinterpreted the thread title it is my err and I apologize.

[Bison Dan]

Based on thread title, I figured you folks just hated Fullerton. If I misinterpreted the thread title it is my err and I apologize.
You need to get it through your head that NDSU is more than happy in the MVFC. No one longs for having to go 800 to 1200 miles for see games. We'll have more fans at the USD game than USD because it's just down the road. We'll also have thousands of fans at the UNI game. That wouldn't happen if we were in the BSC.

[missingnumber7]

It would be good for FCS.
It'd be good precedent for all the schools out there bleeding cash pretending to be FBS against the $100 million plus athletic budgets at Ohio State, Texas, and the SEC.Its the beggining of a season of change. I think it has more to do with why GA Southern has taken so long to announce weather they are or are not moving to FBS. You will begin to see teams that struggle to compete at the FBS level begin to seek out FCS Conferences, especially teams that are not along the East Coast and are not in the Football South. Again just my opinion, but I see FCS on the way up for 2 reasons, true championship, and competitive similarity.

[The_Sicatoka]

I think it has more to do with why GA Southern has taken so long to announce weather they are or are not moving to FBS.

I think GA Southern is on hold in FCS (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?27501-Georgia-Southern-to-FBS...&p=637279#post637279) for now.

[344Johnson]

If you folks hated Fullerton before, what'll you think of him if he pulls off the unthinkable and gets (FBS) Idaho to return to the Big Sky?

http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/07/16/bigger-big-sky-looks-add-one-more?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+standard%2Ffrontpage+(Standar d-Examiner+Latest+Headlines)

My only question is if he gets them to come back, do they put a quality team on the field like they did once upon a time or do they still suck?

[missingnumber7]

I think GA Southern is on hold in FCS (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?27501-Georgia-Southern-to-FBS...&p=637279#post637279) for now.They've been officially or unofficially looking at going FBS for at least 3 years. It makes it easier if you are in UCONNs situation where the entire conference they were in was already FBS so they had an open invite to the Big East. But to move into the Sun Belt, Conference USA or even the MAC where you don't even have a chance to begin with is essentially a fiscally irresponsible move. Gambling with scholarship money is dumb. You have a better chance to stay FCS and use extra money from income gined in playoff games. I would like to know how much money the final 4 FCS teams gained vs the Sun Belt and MAC bowl appearances.

[JSUBison]

Idaho would put the BSC at 12 full members (plus FB affiliates Cal Poly and UC-Davis). I could see that as good for the BSC.

I believe that if Idaho joins the Big Sky, the possibilities of a break in the conference only increases. It's been talked about here before, and it makes sense to me. I think if one of the Cali schools brings back football, or a D2 shows serious interest in moving up, the western half of the Sky will break off. If two schools bring back football, it's almost a guarantee.

New conference would look like this:

Poly
Davis
Sac State
Portland State
NAU
One of the following: EWU, Weber, SUU
New schools: Pacific? Long Beach? San Diego moves from Pioneer??? Northridge or St Mary's brings FB back?

Kind of a long shot with Cali's economy in it's present state, but a private school might, who knows. It's fun to speculate anyway.

[aces1180]

This originally came from Bobcat Nation via SS.com. Made me laugh.
http://i47.tinypic.com/mhyjk4.jpg

[344Johnson]

This originally came from Bobcat Nation via SS.com. Made me laugh.
http://i47.tinypic.com/mhyjk4.jpg

That is pretty funny haha

[The_Sicatoka]

I believe that if Idaho joins the Big Sky, the possibilities of a break in the conference only increases. ...
Kind of a long shot with Cali's economy in it's present state, ...

I agree with that. The "west coasters" would form their own in conference in a second if they could.

There's one more wildcard in this (outside of Idaho): Where is NMSU going to land their FB program?

[HerdBot]

This originally came from Bobcat Nation via SS.com. Made me laugh.
http://i47.tinypic.com/mhyjk4.jpg

Couldn't help but chuckle

[WYOBISONMAN]

I agree with that. The "west coasters" would form their own in conference in a second if they could.

There's one more wildcard in this (outside of Idaho): Where is NMSU going to land their FB program?

Maybe the MWC.

[tony]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8163/7593838716_3c77ec9507.jpg
Could be worse.

[tjbison]

I believe that if Idaho joins the Big Sky, the possibilities of a break in the conference only increases. It's been talked about here before, and it makes sense to me. I think if one of the Cali schools brings back football, or a D2 shows serious interest in moving up, the western half of the Sky will break off. If two schools bring back football, it's almost a guarantee.

New conference would look like this:

Poly
Davis
Sac State
Portland State
NAU
One of the following: EWU, Weber, SUU
New schools: Pacific? Long Beach? San Diego moves from Pioneer??? Northridge or St Mary's brings FB back?

Kind of a long shot with Cali's economy in it's present state, but a private school might, who knows. It's fun to speculate anyway.

Are you hinting these schools go FBS or stay FCS??

Only schools capable of an FBS move are UM, MSU, Davis and Poly

[JSUBison]

Are you hinting these schools go FBS or stay FCS??

Only schools capable of an FBS move are UM, MSU, Davis and Poly

I'm saying they would stay FCS and form a new FB conference for the autobid that would come with it. There's a few different ways they could go about it, one way I think would be for the Big West to sponsor football again, but this time at the FCS level. Actually the more I think about it, the more complex it gets, such as where would the non-California schools park their Olympic sports? Big Sky wouldn't likely let SUU or NAU stay in conference if they moved their FB to the Big West. Also think that the Big West would only offer full membership to Sac State and maybe Portland State. Another option would be a brand new all sports conference, but I don't think Poly or Davis would leave the Big West to form a new just for football. I feel like MPLS now, going in circles and arguing against myself. :irslow:

[The_Sicatoka]

The other factor in this whole WAC meltdown: What happens to Seatte U (no FB), Denver (no FB), and NMSU (FBS)?
We've all be thinking "Idaho" but the others are just as screwed.

JSU's notion of Poly, Davis, Sac State, Portland State, NAU, and (probably) SUU would get them six for FB. Convincing EWU to come with would be football gravy*. (Convincing San Diego to join instead of EWU would be better.) If they grabbed up Seattle and Denver as non-FB schools they'd be sitting pretty well for an all-sports conference.

Alternatively, that'd leave Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Weber State, No Colo, and UND, and probably EWU. Then Idaho and NMSU would have to make some tough decisions.


*I have my doubts if they'd get EWU. They like playing Montana.

[missingnumber7]

Are you hinting these schools go FBS or stay FCS??

Only schools capable of an FBS move are UM, MSU, Davis and PolyDid FBS waive the attendance requirements for upward moves? Davis and Poly would have a difficult time with that I thought it was 15K average to move up.

[The_Sicatoka]

Did FBS waive the attendance requirements for upward moves? Davis and Poly would have a difficult time with that I thought it was 15K average to move up.

Or they'd have to come up with "creative" ways to meet the requirement in the ways about half of the MAC does.

[HerdBot]

Or they'd have to come up with "creative" ways to meet the requirement in the ways about half of the MAC does.

Doesn't UND count online viewers?

[344Johnson]

Or they'd have to come up with "creative" ways to meet the requirement in the ways about half of the MAC does.

Ok, how about this. People who purchase an online pass for....say, 30 bucks for the season(Idk what online subscriptions are) get a GA ticket for every game or some shit. Those people aren't likely to use the ticket, because they bought an online pass. But you could count it as a ticket 'sold'?

Start shooting holes in my very poorly thought out idea......now.

[The_Sicatoka]

Ok, how about this. People who purchase an online pass for....say, 30 bucks for the season(Idk what online subscriptions are) get a GA ticket for every game or some shit. Those people aren't likely to use the ticket, because they bought an online pass. But you could count it as a ticket 'sold'?

Start shooting holes in my very poorly thought out idea......now.

I'm pretty sure Eastern Michigan set it up where their Alumni Foundation didn't directly donate to the football program but instead bought 1/3 cost of regular price (minimum to count per NCAA rules) tickets. That way they got double bang* for the buck: they got additional sold tickets and they still got the money to the FB program.


*TAB got completely distracted by the thought of a "double bang".