Reply to McFeely (17%)

[2006gwfcchamps]

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=155791&section=Columnists&columnist=M ike%20McFeely


When the Bison begin practice in the fall, they’ll have 15 North Dakota players on the 90-man roster. That’s 17 percent, also likely to be an all-time low.


Population (2000):

North Dakota 642200
Minnesota 4919479
Wisconsin 5363675
Chicago PMSA 8272768
Houston PMSA 4177646

(By PMSA, I mean I'm just taking the counties that traditionally make up that city's main metro area, IE that Chicago number doesn't include Gary IN and that Houston number doesn't include Galveston TX, etc)

Total 23375768

ND is 2.7% of that number.

If you take out Houston, the total drops to 19198122, of which ND is 3.4%.

If you take out Houston and Chicago, the total drops to 10925354, of which ND is 5.9%.


Looks like coach Bohl has still done a damn good job of getting ND kids on the roster.

[roadwarrior]

When reading Mike's column, he is simply stating the facts. I did not think that he was taking a shot at Bohl or the football program.

[2006gwfcchamps]

Ok.

I'm just stating facts too.

[WYOBISONMAN]

McFeely wrote a good column that stated the facts. No insult to Bohl or the Bison at all. By the way, the Grizzlies only have 2 Montana kids in thier recuiting class...........

[84grad]

If I remember right, one of the UND poo-pooing statements years ago about NDSU's move to D-I was that local kids would have less of a chance to stay in the area to play D-I sports. I think that the kids who are D-2 material still have their options in the region, but NOW the D-I type kids can stay here rather than get picked up by someone out of the region. Seeing these North Dakota kids on the rosters should be viewed more positively because they now have the best of both: stay close to home AND compete at a higher level.

[The_Man]

Can anybody tell me what the hell is the point of this thread?

[WYOBISONMAN]

Can anybody tell me what the hell is the point of this thread?


Come on now......with 6 posts you don't have the credibility to be questioning threads...... ;)

[Jim_Puetz]

UND shouldn't be poo-pooing the lack of ND kids. They had only 4 of 24 signees that were from ND, NDSU had 2 of 17 from ND; that is 17% and 12% respectively. If you add in the preferred walk ons, NDSU is at 15%. I'd say the numbers are pretty comparable.

[2006gwfcchamps]

And compared to the populations of the other places we recruit, we recruit a much higher percentage of the DI athletes available in ND than the rest of them.

[BisonNeil]

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=155791&section=Columnists&columnist=M ike%20McFeely


When the Bison begin practice in the fall, they’ll have 15 North Dakota players on the 90-man roster. That’s 17 percent, also likely to be an all-time low.


Population (2000):

North Dakota * *642200
Minnesota * 4919479
Wisconsin * 5363675
Chicago PMSA * 8272768
Houston PMSA * 4177646

(By PMSA, I mean I'm just taking the counties that traditionally make up that city's main metro area, IE that Chicago number doesn't include Gary IN and that Houston number doesn't include Galveston TX, etc)

Total * *23375768 * *

ND is 2.7% of that number.

If you take out Houston, the total drops to 19198122, of which ND is 3.4%.

If you take out Houston and Chicago, the total drops to 10925354, of which ND is 5.9%.


Looks like coach Bohl has still done a damn good job of getting ND kids on the roster. *

Nice job, I like the analytical animal coming out in you! It becomes you...

[WYOBISONMAN]

By the way.....the Grizzlies only signed 2 kids from Montana yesterday......

[NorthernBison]

What I saw from yesterday's information is that NDSU signed 2 ND kids and has 1 preferred walk-on from ND. UND signed 5 ND kids. I am assuming that they are trying to recruit primarily athletes that they think can play at the D-1 level. That means that 8 ND kids have shown enough to get this type of look. Has the state typically had 8 kids per year sign with D-1 programs? Probably not. That means that more kids are getting D-1 opportunitiies than previously. I can live with that.

I noticed that MSUM signed only 4 MN kids and zero ND kids. Wahpeton signed a big class with a lot of ND and MN kids. I see opportunities for them to prove themselves and transfer into D-1 and D-2 programs. We've seen it happen before.

[imabison]

What I saw from yesterday's information is that NDSU signed 2 ND kids and has 1 preferred walk-on from ND. *UND signed 5 ND kids. *I am assuming that they are trying to recruit primarily athletes that they think can play at the D-1 level. *That means that 8 ND kids have shown enough to get this type of look. *Has the state typically had 8 kids per year sign with D-1 programs? *Probably not. *That means that more kids are getting D-1 opportunitiies than previously. *I can live with that.

I noticed that MSUM signed only 4 MN kids and zero ND kids. *Wahpeton signed a big class with a lot of ND and MN kids. *I see opportunities for them to prove themselves and transfer into D-1 and D-2 programs. *We've seen it happen before.

Can someone please explain what is meant by PREFERRED WALKON vs WALKON.

[BisonNeil]

If I understood Bohl's explanation, it means they are going to be one of the 90 student-athletes allowed in fall camp. You simply cannot "walk on" anymore because of the cap. Someone correct me if I misrepresented what Bohl said.

[RedRiver]

I believe that the Bison used to have around 110 players on the football team back when they were in Division II.

[BisonCardinal]

Did the State of North Dakota lose any DI type players to the FBS? If not, than it would have been good to mention that in the article, as it would help show that the DI move is helping kids stay in the state.

[finch901]

If I understood Bohl's explanation, it means they are going to be one of the 90 student-athletes allowed in fall camp. *You simply cannot "walk on" anymore because of the cap. Someone correct me if I misrepresented what Bohl said.

You are right on basically a preferred walk-on means they are invited by the coaching staff to be part of the fall camp. being a preferred walk-on is much better than just a plain old walk-on, they want you on the team and they think you will contribute but they just don't have any scholarships left for them.

[BisonMav]

UND shouldn't be poo-pooing the lack of ND kids. *They had only 4 of 24 signees that were from ND, NDSU had 2 of 17 from ND; that is 17% and 12% respectively. *If you add in the preferred walk ons, NDSU is at 15%. *I'd say the numbers are pretty comparable. *

Are all 4 UND recruits getting scholarship money?

[56BISON73]

If I understood Bohl's explanation, it means they are going to be one of the 90 student-athletes allowed in fall camp. *You simply cannot "walk on" anymore because of the cap. Someone correct me if I misrepresented what Bohl said.

You are right on basically a preferred walk-on means they are invited by the coaching staff to be part of the fall camp. being a preferred walk-on is much better than just a plain old walk-on, they want you on the team and they think you will contribute but they just don't have any scholarships left for them.

There are now rules in regards to walkons. I dont know how this applies to NDSU but I know at Iowa the coaching staff cant go to the intermural games and recruit. Any walkon candidate has to supply game tape etc. The walkon is treated in the same way as a recuit. The day of somebody coming to campus and saying I want to play is over. Unfortunatley. PL

[DORMIE]

If UND gets their crap together by June 1 and sends their forms and money in, next year would be their first provisional year. They would still compete on the DII level for that year as they could go back down if they wanted. As they are still at 36 scholarships and signed 24 athletes, they probably weren't able to put too much money in many of them. They could still be DII level athletes. I could be wrong on this.

[NorthernBison]

UND shouldn't be poo-pooing the lack of ND kids. *They had only 4 of 24 signees that were from ND, NDSU had 2 of 17 from ND; that is 17% and 12% respectively. *If you add in the preferred walk ons, NDSU is at 15%. *I'd say the numbers are pretty comparable. *

Are all 4 UND recruits getting scholarship money?

UND signed 5 ND recruits. Bellmore(Horace, ND), Bylin(Adams), Kudrna(Dickinson), Hendrickson(Minot), and Solum(Fargo).

I would expect that each is getting something but the dollars might be quite small. Dormie is correct in stating that their 36 scholarship limit will keep them from spending too much on any one recruit. It does depend on how many scholarships are freed up by graduation and attrition in the rest of the program.

[TheBisonator]

I would like to know why some close-minded people care so much to want to see North Dakota kids on Bison football rosters?? I don't give a crap if 50 percent of he team's players are from North Dakota, from Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, from Sydney, Australia, or from Guangzhou, China. They're all BISON to me. The number of kids on the roster from North Dakota or Texas or Illinois or Wisconsin or Minnesota means absolutely NOTHING to me. THEY'RE ALL BISON.

I remember und fans used to throw out that argument when we moved to DI. That was a weak-ass argument.

[Scooter]

I hate to break it to all the ND residents but the sad truth is this. Winning the state championship in the state of ND is like winning your District in MN, WI, TX, IL,IA, OH,.....you simply don't have the numbers. If you want to see a team in our division get their ass kicked, require them to put 25-30 ND kids on their roster. Sure ND has some talent. Hell they may even have more talent per capita than other areas, but only "per capita."

[westriverbison]

I hate to break it to all the ND residents but the sad truth is this. *Winning the state championship in the state of ND is like winning your District in MN, WI, TX, IL,IA, OH,.....you simply don't have the numbers. *If you want to see a team in our division get their ass kicked, require them to put 25-30 ND kids on their roster. *Sure ND has some talent. *Hell they may even have more talent per capita than other areas, but only "per capita."


I agree 100%. Play the best we can recruit, it doesn't matter where they are from. They may stick around and become North Dakotans. God knows we can use more people in this state.

[Scooter]

I hate to break it to all the ND residents but the sad truth is this. *Winning the state championship in the state of ND is like winning your District in MN, WI, TX, IL,IA, OH,.....you simply don't have the numbers. *If you want to see a team in our division get their ass kicked, require them to put 25-30 ND kids on their roster. *Sure ND has some talent. *Hell they may even have more talent per capita than other areas, but only "per capita."


I agree 100%. *Play the best we can recruit, it doesn't matter where they are from. *They may stick around and become North Dakotans. *God knows we can use more people in this state.

here's another way to look at it....

1. you have 90 kids to work with....
2. spread over 5 years is 18 per year.
3. The states of ND,SD,MN and WI have 11,880,000 people in it (now, only using this area)
4. devide 11,880,000 by 18 scholorships and you get 660,000
5. That's 1 schollie for every 660,000 people
6. The state of ND has roughly this number....you got twice the number you should have. *

[TheBisonator]

I hate to break it to all the ND residents but the sad truth is this. *Winning the state championship in the state of ND is like winning your District in MN, WI, TX, IL,IA, OH,.....you simply don't have the numbers. *If you want to see a team in our division get their ass kicked, require them to put 25-30 ND kids on their roster. *Sure ND has some talent. *Hell they may even have more talent per capita than other areas, but only "per capita."


I agree 100%. *Play the best we can recruit, it doesn't matter where they are from. *They may stick around and become North Dakotans. God knows we can use more people in this state.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE FREAKING HEAD!!!!

[NorthernBison]

I hate to break it to all the ND residents but the sad truth is this. *Winning the state championship in the state of ND is like winning your District in MN, WI, TX, IL,IA, OH,.....you simply don't have the numbers. *If you want to see a team in our division get their ass kicked, require them to put 25-30 ND kids on their roster. *Sure ND has some talent. *Hell they may even have more talent per capita than other areas, but only "per capita."


I don't think anybody said there had to be a certain number of ND kids on the roster or getting scholarships. I think the coaches recruit the best athletes from wherever they can get them. On the other hand, the fact that media and casual fans notice where the kids are coming from should clue you in to the fact that people might care about some things that you don't worry about.

Now let me break some news to you. The people who go to Bismarck every other year and decide how the higher education funds get allocated across the state pay attention to stuff like this. It certainly doesn't hurt our lobbying efforts to sign some of these kids.

Furthermore, consider what we are talking about here with the signing day coverage. ND media focuses on local kids because every recruit is just a name now anyway. Local people reading the papers and watching the news can recognize local kids because they might have seen them play while kids signing from TX or CA or wherever are just a name and a video clip. They'll get behind them once they start to produce on the field but right now only the intense fans really give a rip. Ask a few people on the street about names of recruits and you'll get a lot of blank stares. Ask about the local kid that just signed with State and you'll probably end up having a conversation. It matters.

By the way, including Minnesota in that list above is reaching a bit. Believe me, the level of competition in most of the state is closer to ND than it is to other states you listed. I think the biggest way to get you ass kicked as the coach at the University of Minnesota is to have too many Minnesota kids on the roster. ;) ;) ;) Good god, I think I actually almost quoted Sid Hartman. I need a nap.

[Scooter]

I hate to break it to all the ND residents but the sad truth is this. *Winning the state championship in the state of ND is like winning your District in MN, WI, TX, IL,IA, OH,.....you simply don't have the numbers. *If you want to see a team in our division get their ass kicked, require them to put 25-30 ND kids on their roster. *Sure ND has some talent. *Hell they may even have more talent per capita than other areas, but only "per capita."


I don't think anybody said there had to be a certain number of ND kids on the roster or getting scholarships. *I think the coaches recruit the best athletes from wherever they can get them. *On the other hand, the fact that media and casual fans notice where the kids are coming from should clue you in to the fact that people might care about some things that you don't worry about.

Now let me break some news to you. *The people who go to Bismarck every other year and decide how the higher education funds get allocated across the state pay attention to stuff like this. *It certainly doesn't hurt our lobbying efforts to sign some of these kids.

Furthermore, consider what we are talking about here with the signing day coverage. *ND media focuses on local kids because every recruit is just a name now anyway. *Local people reading the papers and watching the news can recognize local kids because they might have seen them play while kids signing from TX or CA or wherever are just a name and a video clip. *They'll get behind them once they start to produce on the field but right now only the intense fans really give a rip. *Ask a few people on the street about names of recruits and you'll get a lot of blank stares. *Ask about the local kid that just signed with State and you'll probably end up having a conversation. *It matters.

By the way, including Minnesota in that list above is reaching a bit. *Believe me, the level of competition in most of the state is closer to ND than it is to other states you listed. *I think the biggest way to get you ass kicked as the coach at the University of Minnesota is to have too many Minnesota kids on the roster. * ;) ;) ;) *Good god, I think I actually almost quoted Sid Hartman. *I need a nap.


Hey if you want a mediocre team, by all means recruit five to ten kids from ND regardless. *I played FB in ND, stop blowing smoke up my ass.

[NorthernBison]

I hate to break it to all the ND residents but the sad truth is this. *Winning the state championship in the state of ND is like winning your District in MN, WI, TX, IL,IA, OH,.....you simply don't have the numbers. *If you want to see a team in our division get their ass kicked, require them to put 25-30 ND kids on their roster. *Sure ND has some talent. *Hell they may even have more talent per capita than other areas, but only "per capita."


I don't think anybody said there had to be a certain number of ND kids on the roster or getting scholarships. *I think the coaches recruit the best athletes from wherever they can get them. *On the other hand, the fact that media and casual fans notice where the kids are coming from should clue you in to the fact that people might care about some things that you don't worry about.

Now let me break some news to you. *The people who go to Bismarck every other year and decide how the higher education funds get allocated across the state pay attention to stuff like this. *It certainly doesn't hurt our lobbying efforts to sign some of these kids.

Furthermore, consider what we are talking about here with the signing day coverage. *ND media focuses on local kids because every recruit is just a name now anyway. *Local people reading the papers and watching the news can recognize local kids because they might have seen them play while kids signing from TX or CA or wherever are just a name and a video clip. *They'll get behind them once they start to produce on the field but right now only the intense fans really give a rip. *Ask a few people on the street about names of recruits and you'll get a lot of blank stares. *Ask about the local kid that just signed with State and you'll probably end up having a conversation. *It matters.

By the way, including Minnesota in that list above is reaching a bit. *Believe me, the level of competition in most of the state is closer to ND than it is to other states you listed. *I think the biggest way to get you ass kicked as the coach at the University of Minnesota is to have too many Minnesota kids on the roster. * ;) ;) ;) *Good god, I think I actually almost quoted Sid Hartman. *I need a nap.


Hey if you want a mediocre team, by all means recruit five to ten kids from ND regardless. *I played FB in ND, stop blowing smoke up my ass.

You're the one blowing smoke. Cripes I actually agree with most of what you have said. What I don't like are the ridiculous comments like insinuating that somebody actually wants to require a certain amount of in-state players on the team or that we should set a minimum of recruits each year. McFeely simply made an observation about the number of kids signed that are from ND. I'll bet that 90% of the people who looked at the list in ND did the exact same thing. People are curious about where the players are coming from.

Once again, I trust the coaches to recruit the best athletes regardless of where they come from. This will never cause a problem as long as we keep winning and kids aren't getting into trouble. I'm perfectly fine with only one or two ND kids in the recruiting class. I just don't want to hear people say that they would be fine with a 100% out-state roster as long as we win.

[Scooter]

For someone who agrees with most of what I said, you sure took issue with it. *It's just I feel different than you do. *Here are five points on which we differ a bit.

1. *If you want to have an uncomfortable conversation with a person who goes to Bismarck every other year, start having consistent .500 seasons in football. *The first question that they will ask you is this..."Now, when you came to us and wanted to move up, you said that we would be able to be successful right away. *What the heck is going on? *Did we make the wrong decision?"
*
Insert your response here________________________________. *Got nothing'? Yeah, I wouldn't want to have that talk either.

2. *You call me ridiculus that I insinuate that some want us to require a certain number of ND kids on the roster yet you go on to say, in bold print I might add, *that the people who go to Bismarck to decide the higher education budget pay attention to this kind of stuff. *And, you write that it would be a good idea to sign some of these kids to help the lobbying efforts. *Now, which is it? *Do you want a kid to actually earn a schollie? *Or, do you want to give a few extra kids every year "ND Poster boy" schollies?

3. *The people in ND do love their football...wait a minute... more accurately, the people of ND love winning football. *Consistently put a 5-6 or 6-5 team on the field and you will draw 12000 fans on a yearly basis. *This is just a fact and history has proven me right on this.

4. *I'll go half way on the Minnesota issue....winning the state of ND in football is like winning your region in Minnesota. *And, I think that I am being kind on this compromise. *It's nothing personal, it's simply a numbers issue... the last time I checked 5,000,000 was much larger than 660,000. *

5. *There is not one person on this board that has said that we should completely ignore the Kids in ND. *This is not division II where you can have 10-15 local kids walk on to the team. *You have a limited number of slots for kids, and that is it. *Those days are over.

Regards, Scooter AKA Smokeblower *

Scooter Smokeblower..... that sounds like and indian name....let's pass the peacepipe, blow smoke and be friends. *:)

[bisonfan07]

A few years back, I too was worried about less ND kids playing at NDSU when they went D1. Now I agree with how Bohl and staff are doing it. Yes, there are less ND kids on the roster, but he's going after the BEST ND players. Look at this past year's team. Steffes, Roehl, Wurzbacher, Harrington started on O, and all from ND. I think Richards is going to be a stud, Solum would have been nice to have, so would Dressler a few years back, but I think they've done a good job recruiting the ND athletes that can play at the D1 level. Frankly, being that they finished #3 in the country last year means that what they are doing, and WHO they are recruiting, means they are doing something right.

[SiouxHockeyBisonFo]

This shouldnt be an issues. Bohl and his staff do an amazing job recruitng the state ND and outstate MN. We should be thanking him for giving these kids an opportunity at DI level, without NDSU 99.9% of these kids would be overlooked and get stuck going to the hell hole up north.

If anybody should get criticized it should be the cellar dweller across the river. They signed zero ND kids. The laughing stock of DII continues to travel the country and bring in kids from FL, CA and every other state around the country, but forgets to checkout the schools a few miles away. Maybe if they would spend some time and money in their own back yard they would win a few games and spark some interest and maybe even bring in a few thousand fans two watch the local kids. Nobody cares about a bunch of no name athletes from FL and CA, especially when the program doesnt win.

[Bisondad]

Got to agree with you on Moorhead. Both NDSU and UND didn't pick up many ND kids. i really thought Moorhead would have a great shot at many good ND athletes that would normally be going to either of the above.

[CaBisonFan]

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=155791&section=Columnists&columnist=M ike%20McFeely


When the Bison begin practice in the fall, they’ll have 15 North Dakota players on the 90-man roster. That’s 17 percent, also likely to be an all-time low.


Population (2000):

North Dakota * *642200
Minnesota * 4919479
Wisconsin * 5363675
Chicago PMSA * 8272768
Houston PMSA * 4177646

(By PMSA, I mean I'm just taking the counties that traditionally make up that city's main metro area, IE that Chicago number doesn't include Gary IN and that Houston number doesn't include Galveston TX, etc)

Total * *23375768 * *

ND is 2.7% of that number.

If you take out Houston, the total drops to 19198122, of which ND is 3.4%.

If you take out Houston and Chicago, the total drops to 10925354, of which ND is 5.9%.


Looks like coach Bohl has still done a damn good job of getting ND kids on the roster. *


Good fact finding. I consider the the three-state area to be the back yard of NDSU. Some of the Minnesota kids live closer to Fargo than the kid from Bismarck. I wonder what the stats would look like using a 300 mile radius. And besides, if a kid isn't good enough, they should play somewhere else...meaning ah, you know. Nebraska is a good model. Nebraska kids have raised the bar in terms of their training and desire to play for the Huskers. We're all familiar with the walk-on success there. Again...I consider Minnesota to be SU's backyard. If we were recruiting nothing but kids from the south (Texas, Florida, California) then I'd say there's a problem with the philosophy. The Twins Cities is just down the interstate. Big deal. About a year ago I did a check on the number North Dakota kids on the UND hockey team. It was either 4 or 5. DI status requires stretching the recruiting radius. Simple. I'm no fan of McFeely. I'd like the Forum to hire a writer that is designated almost entirely to the Bison and someone that is a legit. fan of the program. McFeely is not. People say he's hired to stir it up. I'd like him gone...kind of like the way the Clear Channel left town. My real problem with him is his lack of historical perspective and appreciation. He has 'zero.'

[KC7]

Here's my take on it. In my recruiting class, fall of 1986, we had one ND kid get a scholarship (Phil Hansen). This year there are two scholarship people from ND,a 100% increase.

Today's recruited walkon now has a better oppurtunity to get scholarship money with the increase in total number from 1986 of 45 total scholarships, to 2006 number of 63 total scholarships.

In the end there may very well be more ND kids getting more $$$ for there education today, then at any point in the last twenty years. Certainly we are better off at 63 full rides than the ridiculous Div. 2's watering down of 36 scholarships.

Having quality ND kids actually playing and contributing is better than having quantity ND kids playing on the SCOUT team.

[CaBisonFan]

Can anybody tell me what the hell is the point of this thread?

The point of the thread is that 'champs' wanted to post it. That's enough. There also seems to be some people that are interested in it. Have another beer.

[CaBisonFan]

UND shouldn't be poo-pooing the lack of ND kids. *They had only 4 of 24 signees that were from ND, NDSU had 2 of 17 from ND; that is 17% and 12% respectively. *If you add in the preferred walk ons, NDSU is at 15%. *I'd say the numbers are pretty comparable. *

I agree. A year ago I checked their hockey roster for North Dakota kids. They had 4 or 5 kids in the program. With both schools being so close to Minnesota, I consider (especially) the northern half of Minnesota to be just as much 'home' recruiting as getting kids from western North Dakota. The population centers aren't here. It's that simple.