Let the NDSU bashing commence!

[cbline]

Looks like our old friends at the Forum want to stir the pot and create the latest, greatest "controversy", with this one being the pay of professors at NDSU. Time to release the hounds, you NDSU haters.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/358454/

[Tatanka]

Once again, the Forum fails to provide an adequate basis for comparison as professors in high-tech fields are being directly compared to liberal arts counterparts simply because they're close in proximity. The average Rob Port type person is going to look at that and say "That's more than I make. NDSU number too big. Why they not as small as MSUM? Raaararrrrrrrrrr" and fling poo at NDSU for having the audacity to pay these people what they are worth in the marketplace. Another attack column from the local tabloid. Whatever they need to do to sell papers I guess.

Cue Rob Port with a snarky collection of misinterpreted facts in 3.....2...........1............................... .......

[Hambone]

How is the article bad?

EDIT: Just read Tatanka's post and I guess that makes sense.

[KSBisonFan]

NDSU = a place students, instructors and athletes WANT to be.

(Insert name of other University here) = none of the above.

NDSU doesn't need to apologize for being successful and the article verifies we are in the company of other big-time schools who also pay their faculty well. Pretty much spells out the alternative at MSUM which isn't good. People can bash all they want but it will only look like sour grapes.....Students, the surrounding area and the state get a good return on this investment in education so it's not like it's wasted money, like say, I don't know..... politician's salaries.

[Tatanka]

How is the article bad?

The article itself is not terrible--it could have been much worse--but the way it's positioned (and headlined) has the intended effect, which is negative towards SU. Apparently Amy Dalrymple hasn't gotten through to Marino quite yet on the right way to write a slam piece.

[Hammersmith]

The part that pisses me off is the total lack of explanation of the differences between full professor, associate prof, assistant prof, and lecturer/instructor. The article makes it sound like every teacher at NDSU is making $100k, when only a small fraction of them make that kind of money. When I was in the music dept, only two of the ten faculty were full professors. One was a lecturer, one was an associate prof, and the rest were assistant profs. Since then, several of the assistants have received tenure and were bumped up to associate, but only one or two have made it to full professor. I bet the percentage of faculty at full professor level at NDSU is not much more than 30%, if that.

[NorthernBison]

When you have a range of $61,000 to $236,000 at NDSU for full professor salaries, the average doesn't really matter all that much. Yet, I'll bet you any amount of money that the average Joe reading the article will focus only on that average. BTW, that number doesn't make me think it would be real lucrative to be a University professor.

[NDSUstudent]

The Forum has truly hit a new low with this piece of garbage. Its poorly written and lazy, in no world should NDSU and UND be compared to MSUM and Concordia. Do your fing homework and do some digging about schools that are actually like NDSU and UND. Write another article about MSUM and Concordia and schools like them.

[Bison Dan]

When you have a range of $61,000 to $236,000 at NDSU for full professor salaries, the average doesn't really matter all that much. Yet, I'll bet you any amount of money that the average Joe reading the article will focus only on that average. BTW, that number doesn't make me think it would be real lucrative to be a University professor.
One of the first things I was taught in grad school was that decisions based on averages will for the most part be bad decisions. Averages tell you very little.

[Tatanka]

The Forum is at best an average newspaper.

[TheBisonator]

About 4-5 years ago, one of my drawing instructors in the visual arts program (he was a full-time adjunct professor, one step above grad assistant and one step below associate) had to work at Pizza Patrol in Moorhead on weekends as a second job just to make ends meet.

The top full-time alpha-dog professor in the visual arts department most likely makes a salary at the very bottom of that 61K-236K scale. And she has a PhD in art history from Emory University and has been teaching for decades.

[MNLonghorn10]

About 4-5 years ago, one of my drawing instructors in the visual arts program (he was a full-time adjunct professor, one step above grad assistant and one step below associate) had to work at Pizza Patrol in Moorhead on weekends as a second job just to make ends meet.

The top full-time alpha-dog professor in the visual arts department most likely makes a salary at the very bottom of that 61K-236K scale. And she has a PhD in art history from Emory University and has been teaching for decades.
http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/filestorage/liberal-arts-college-basketball-tournament-sports-ecards-someecards.png

[BadlandsBison]

I wonder if papers is Ohio passive aggressively attack Ohio State professor salaries. Or Texas or grand forks

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[mebisonII]

I wonder if papers is Ohio passive aggressively attack Ohio State professor salaries. Or Texas or grand forks

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

I would almost guarantee that they do. It certainly has happened at the two B10 campuses I've been affiliated with.

I didn't actually think the article was bad. It was short on details, particularly explaining some differences in faculty ranks and expectations, but I didn't see quite the hit-job some of you see.

Of course there will be some knuckle-head responses, but even the article "The sky is blue, above the clouds" would get that.

[bisonmike2]

Really? Again Forum? Really? Yet another pathetic attempt to smear NDSU. They point out that UND is right behind at 95K and they even pay more for associate professors but that's glossed over. Plus they mentioned pay has increased sharply since 2000 but don't mention if UND pay has followed the same path or if they've always paid their Profs more and only recently did NDSU overtake them? It also might be nice to mention how many more doctoral programs NDSU has added in that time, and if I had to guess, I'd say professors for doctoral programs probably command a higher paycheck then someone teaching intro to university studies.

[Civil06]

I would almost guarantee that they do. It certainly has happened at the two B10 campuses I've been affiliated with.

I didn't actually think the article was bad. It was short on details, particularly explaining some differences in faculty ranks and expectations, but I didn't see quite the hit-job some of you see.

Of course there will be some knuckle-head responses, but even the article "The sky is blue, above the clouds" would get that.

That's because the statement is false!!! (at night)

:biggrin:

[roadwarrior]

The online Forum has a poll. Currently over 600 have voted and 41.5% think the pay is appropriate, 38% think its too high, 15% think its too low and the rest don't know.

[stevdock]

Based on the national article about less than half of last years graduates have a job in their degree, I thought the article was worthwhile especially with the way tuition is escalating. I get the comment about basing things on averages, but when the average goes from 42K to around 100K in just a few years and combine that with tuition increases there is going to be some backlash. I think the education system overall needs to look at the future issues it will be facing instead of waiting until it gets worse. And this is coming from a current teacher.

[tony]

Based on the national article about less than half of last years graduates have a job in their degree, I thought the article was worthwhile especially with the way tuition is escalating. I get the comment about basing things on averages, but when the average goes from 42K to around 100K in just a few years and combine that with tuition increases there is going to be some backlash. I think the education system overall needs to look at the future issues it will be facing instead of waiting until it gets worse. And this is coming from a current teacher.

So view Higher Ed in ND as a system and NDSU as a whole then rather than giving incomplete and misleading pieces of information.

NDSU professors went without raises for many years and NDSU is trying to make up ground lost in the '80s and '90s, etc.

The ONLY reason this is newsworthy to Forum Comm is that NDSU average pay for professors is higher than UND's. If NDSU is different in any way from UND, then the default position is that NDSU is in the wrong... well, unless it's something that is impossible to spin like UND getting 30% (or is it 40%?) more in state support per full-time-equivalent student - the only thing they can do with that information is suppress it.

Fact is: The job market is shit right now - President Bresciani is not going to be able to justify faculty raise right now. Sure, Minnesota pays higher salaries but the cost of living is higher in the Cities. If he brought this up, he should be dope slapped.

President Bresciani should not be complaining about NDSU's woeful funding by saying how bad off his professors are. He should be focusing on its effects on the STUDENTS.

Also, he should never have said "It sounds like a lot of money", he should have said "It IS a lot of money but this is why it was necessary."

[bisonmike2]

Based on the national article about less than half of last years graduates have a job in their degree, I thought the article was worthwhile especially with the way tuition is escalating. I get the comment about basing things on averages, but when the average goes from 42K to around 100K in just a few years and combine that with tuition increases there is going to be some backlash. I think the education system overall needs to look at the future issues it will be facing instead of waiting until it gets worse. And this is coming from a current teacher.

If only there were someone in the F/M area who could investigate this? They could look into the cause, list contributing factors then present this set of ideas in a journalistic manner. Maybe even get it printed in a local publication, like a newsletter, magazine or even newspaper. Too bad there isn't anyone capable in Fargo of doing this.

As I mentioned above, they irresponsibly throw that fact out there and then give no possible explanations for the increase. Not even so much as a hint. I guessed that it's because NDSU now offers double the doctorate degrees than it did in 2002 and those faculty come at a high price. How difficult would it be for the "journalist" responsible for that POS article to do a little research and give some sort of background on it?

[bisonmike2]

So view Higher Ed in ND as a system and NDSU as a whole then rather than giving incomplete and misleading pieces of information.

NDSU professors went without raises for many years and NDSU is trying to make up ground lost in the '80s and '90s.

The ONLY reason this is newsworthy to Forum Comm is that NDSU average pay for professors is higher than UND's. If NDSU is different in any way from UND, then the default position is that NDSU is in the wrong... well, unless it's something that is impossible to spin like UND getting 30% (or is it 40%?) more in state support per full-time-equivalent student.

This pretty much says it all. Well done Tony.

[NorthernBison]

If the Forum really wanted to compare Full Professor compensation between the colleges in the Metro area plus UND, it would have made sense to compare similar fields and tenure (I assume that matters). For example: what does a history or music professor get paid at each school? That $5,000 average difference between NDSU and UND is statistically insignificant. They are the Liberal Arts University and we are Science and Engineering. If anything, there should be a larger difference.

[Twentysix]

When you have a range of $61,000 to $236,000 at NDSU for full professor salaries, the average doesn't really matter all that much. Yet, I'll bet you any amount of money that the average Joe reading the article will focus only on that average. BTW, that number doesn't make me think it would be real lucrative to be a University professor.

You mean 13 years of college isnt worth $100,000? All these $40,000 complainer types only need to go back to school for more than a decade. The Ph.D. program I am entertaining is between 7 and 9 years depending on the school. Lets leave a masters out of the arguement.

[NorthernBison]

You mean 13 years of college isnt worth $100,000? All these $40,000 complainer types only need to go back to school for more than a decade. The Ph.D. program I am entertaining is between 7 and 9 years depending on the school. Lets leave a masters out of the arguement.

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing (I shoulda got some more schoolin'). Right now in ND, you can make $100k if you have drug free urine and a CDL. Makes the idea of someday becoming a Full Professor not such a profitable goal.

[Twentysix]

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing (I shoulda got some more schoolin'). Right now in ND, you can make $100k if you have drug free urine and a CDL. Makes the idea of someday becoming a Full Professor not such a profitable goal.

I think that 100k is low to be honest. NDSU should be comparing itself to top 300 institutions (world wide), not MSUM (UM-TC 28, UW-Madison 19, Montana is a 301-400, KSU 301-400, KU is 151-200). People who are going into education at that high of a level are not in it for the money, but that doesn't mean they shouldnt be adequately compensated.

I personally would be upset making $50k longterm after going to school for roughly 30 years. At that same time, I would be very disapointed in myself if I do not attain a doctoral level degree.

Money dictates where they teach, not if they teach. If NDSU wants to raise its level of prestige 100k average seems a little bit low.

NDSU and UND should shoot to be on teir with or a little better than Kansas State, on teir with Mizzou, and just below Nebraska and KU.

[Tatanka]

So view Higher Ed in ND as a system and NDSU as a whole then rather than giving incomplete and misleading pieces of information.

NDSU professors went without raises for many years and NDSU is trying to make up ground lost in the '80s and '90s, etc.

The ONLY reason this is newsworthy to Forum Comm is that NDSU average pay for professors is higher than UND's. If NDSU is different in any way from UND, then the default position is that NDSU is in the wrong... well, unless it's something that is impossible to spin like UND getting 30% (or is it 40%?) more in state support per full-time-equivalent student - the only thing they can do with that information is suppress it.

Fact is: The job market is shit right now - President Bresciani is not going to be able to justify faculty raise right now. Sure, Minnesota pays higher salaries but the cost of living is higher in the Cities. If he brought this up, he should be dope slapped.

President Bresciani should not be complaining about NDSU's woeful funding by saying how bad off his professors are. He should be focusing on its effects on the STUDENTS.

Also, he should never have said "It sounds like a lot of money", he should have said "It IS a lot of money but this is why it was necessary."
I wouldn't be so sure he didn't state it that way. Wouldn't be unlike the forum to shape quotes in a context that supports their bias.

[HerdBot]

McFeeley is going to talk this subject on KFGO now.
237-5948
Studio@kfgo

[bisonmike2]

McFeeley is going to talk this subject on KFGO now.
237-5948
Studio@kfgo

I'm sure Mr. McFeeley is going to address this matter in a fair and unbiased manner.

NDSU profs should make 100K, but UND profs making 95K to teach kids like this to become lawyers and such:
http://i.qkme.me/2ltr.jpg
well that's ridiculous.

[ndsubison1]

how are we supposed to get top notch professors if we dont pay them well? there will always be ppl complaining and whining when others are making more money than them

[ndsubison1]

I wonder if papers is Ohio passive aggressively attack Ohio State professor salaries. Or Texas or grand forks

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

also ive read that the florida state legislature has cut funding to university of florida by 30% in the past 6 years too

[DjKyRo]

how are we supposed to get top notch professors if we dont pay them well? there will always be ppl complaining and whining when others are making more money than them

The uninformed North Dakota tax payer would retort saying NDSU doesn't need top-notch professors. :facepalm:

[North Side]

What a deceiving title to the article. :facepalm: "Is $100,000 too low for an NDSU professor's salary?" They make it sounds like all NDSU professors make 100K when in reality there are very few full professors at NDSU. In 5 years at NDSU I have only had 2 full professors. I would guess 60% are assistant 30% are associate and 10% are full professors, and all the full professor I know are planning on retirement very soon. Also as a pharmacy student I have no problem with pharmacy related professors making more and my tuition being double. I understand ndsu needs to offer higher salaries to stay competitive with the free market and have good quality teachers... stupid forum...

[BlueBisonRock]

This thread reminds me of an old story.

There was a gentleman who worked for the XYZ Widget company. His job was to insure that the machinery in the key part of their manufacturing line worked flawlessly. He ran a tight ship for years.

He was getting near retirement age and was making some good coin, so the boss put together a deal and 'offered' him an early retirement package. Given his options, he took it.

The line ran smoothly for the first year, but then some minor issues started cropping up. The new folks did their very best to identify and fix these issues, however, the problems only got worse. Until one day, the line just up and stopped.

The business was frantic. People were working day and night to get the line moving but nothing seemed to work. Finally the boss sucked up his pride and called the gentleman who retired. It took some negotiation, but the boss finally convinced the old guy to visit the plant. If he could fix the problem and get the line running, he would be paid $50,000.

The former retired gentleman and current consultant did as he was asked. He went right to the plant and was escorted to the line by the boss. The gentleman walked up the line, then down the line. He finally stopped and stared at a particular location for about thirty seconds. He pulled a screwdriver out of his shirt pocket (yes, the protector was in place), tightened a single screw, and stated: "try it now".

Just like that, the line came back up and was running flawlessly once again.

Well the boss was a bit concerned. He looked at his former employee and stated: "You come in here, spend ten minutes working, tighten a screw, and expect to be paid $50,000!?"

The older gentleman simply looked at the former boss and stated: "Turning a screw did not fix your problem. Knowing which screw to turn made the difference".

---------------------------

Just like the boss in this story, most people get caught up with cost and forget its the results that matter.

[HerdBot]

The uninformed North Dakota tax payer would retort saying NDSU doesn't need top-notch professors. :facepalm:

But on the same token their #1 issue is "teacher pay." Except NDSU teachers

[HerdBot]

I'm sure Mr. McFeeley is going to address this matter in a fair and unbiased manner.

NDSU profs should make 100K, but UND profs making 95K to teach kids like this to become lawyers and such:
http://i.qkme.me/2ltr.jpg
well that's ridiculous.

McFeely sides with NDSU

[tony]

There are so many obvious questions to ask here and Forum Comm asked none of them - to me, as I wrote before, that shows that their only interest is tearing down NDSU.

UND has 638 full-time faculty members and 502 of them have a doctorate or other terminal degrees. That's 78.6%.
NDSU has 630 full-time faculty members and 530 of them have doctorate or other terminal degrees. That's 84.1%. You'd think that NDSU salaries would be 7% higher just on that fact alone.

Sounds like maybe NDSU faculty members have better qualifications - not to mention heavier workloads since NDSU has fewer professors teaching more students. Couldn't find faculty information for MSU-Moorhead.

Sources:
http://www.ndsu.edu/fileadmin/oira/Common_Data_Set/CDS_2011-2012.pdf
http://und.edu/research/institutional-research/_files/docs/common-data-set/cds-2011-2012.pdf

[bisonmike2]

McFeely sides with NDSU

I'm shocked. Every once in a while McFeely shows he's capable of rational thought.

[bisonmike2]

So another article today about the pay of a high profile individual at NDSU. At least Kolpack also had Hakstol as a direct comparison. I wonder if he got a directive from higher up? This weeks focus: Pay rates at NDSU. I wonder what they'll have tomorrow? Another article the Presidents pay? Maybe we'll get to hear how much janitors at NDSU get paid relative to janitors at Fargo middle schools on Thursday?

[runtheoption]

So another article today about the pay of a high profile individual at NDSU. At least Kolpack also had Hakstol as a direct comparison. I wonder if he got a directive from higher up? This weeks focus: Pay rates at NDSU. I wonder what they'll have tomorrow? Another article the Presidents pay? Maybe we'll get to hear how much janitors at NDSU get paid relative to janitors at Fargo middle schools on Thursday?

I am surprised that today's headline did not say something like "NDSU's top revenue generator is grossly underpaid" or "Coach Bohl's salary makes NDSU look small-time".

[tony]

I am surprised that today's headline did not say something like "NDSU's top revenue generator is grossly underpaid" or "Coach Bohl's salary makes NDSU look small-time".

If it hadn't been on the sports page, then I'd expect that Coach Bohl's salary would have been compared to the head coaches at MSU-Moorhead and Concordia.

[cbline]

So another article today about the pay of a high profile individual at NDSU. At least Kolpack also had Hakstol as a direct comparison. I wonder if he got a directive from higher up? This weeks focus: Pay rates at NDSU. I wonder what they'll have tomorrow? Another article the Presidents pay? Maybe we'll get to hear how much janitors at NDSU get paid relative to janitors at Fargo middle schools on Thursday?

My guess for Wednesday's story: somehow they will weave in the cost of the President's house and/or the private plane. Trust me.

[Bison55]

Did anyone else notice how yesterday it was such an injustice and a travesty that NDSU prof's make so much money (by listening to some people on the radio $100k is enough money to buy a mansion and a yacht in Hawaii or something)...... but then today Hakstol making more that Bohl is a "win" and a "victory" going to UND??

More Pathetic reporting by the forum

[tony]

Did anyone else notice how yesterday it was such an injustice and a travesty that NDSU prof's make so much money (by listening to some people on the radio $100k is enough money to buy a mansion and a yacht in Hawaii or something)...... but then today Hakstol making more that Bohl is a "win" and a "victory" going to UND??

More Pathetic reporting by the forum

Things I've noticed:

- If a President's House is $1 million over budget including parking, landscaping and all that, it's really, really bad.
- If a hockey arena goes $60 million over budget, that's really, really good. So are $20 million parking ramps.
- Out of state students coming to North Dakota is really, really bad
- Out of state students taking classes online and never coming near North Dakota is really, really good.
- NDSU is wasting money like crazy. Other schools that need thousands more per student of state funding are models of efficiency.

[BadlandsBison]

Things I've noticed:

- If a President's House is $1 million over budget including parking, landscaping and all that, it's really, really bad.
- If a hockey arena goes $60 million over budget, that's really, really good. So are $20 million parking ramps.
- Out of state students coming to North Dakota is really, really bad
- Out of state students taking classes online and never coming near North Dakota is really, really good.
- NDSU is wasting money like crazy. Other schools that need thousands more per student of state funding are models of efficiency.

Thanks Rob!

Hey you're not teh Porterhouse

[stevdock]

Did anyone else notice how yesterday it was such an injustice and a travesty that NDSU prof's make so much money (by listening to some people on the radio $100k is enough money to buy a mansion and a yacht in Hawaii or something)...... but then today Hakstol making more that Bohl is a "win" and a "victory" going to UND??

More Pathetic reporting by the forum

Honestly just read the article a few moments ago and did see that in there at all. Instead the Forum made sure to get quotes from the ADs saying that they did not compare the coaches, Bohl and Hakstol. Instead the schools compared to their peers placing both of them around the top of their professions.

Sometimes the whole Forum slanted towards UND is legit and others like this article was not at all. This one was just informative.

[IzzyFlexion]

Thanks Rob!

Hey you're not teh Porterhouse

Our Tony is the antithisis of el Portlio.

[Hammersmith]

Honestly just read the article a few moments ago and did see that in there at all. Instead the Forum made sure to get quotes from the ADs saying that they did not compare the coaches, Bohl and Hakstol. Instead the schools compared to their peers placing both of them around the top of their professions.

Sometimes the whole Forum slanted towards UND is legit and others like this article was not at all. This one was just informative.
The article itself wasn't slanted, but the presentation could be considered so. The topic came up because Hakstol just signed a new contract. That made the topic newsworthy and Bohl is a valid comparison point(though salaries for the hockey coaches at UMTC, Wisc, UMD, SCSU, and/or Denver should also have been included). The problem came with running the article one day after the "OMG, NDSU profs make $100k/year!!!" article. It could be said that the Forum wound people up with the first article and used it to shape opinion on the second. Think of how the impact would've been different if they flipped the days. Or ran the articles on separate weeks. Was it deliberate? I don't know for sure. But there's been an awful lot of these "coincidences". And none of them seem to favor NDSU.

[perthbison]

Other schools that need thousands more per student of state funding are models of efficiency.A school like that is a leech on our state. Say, there's an original nickname!

[Hammersmith]

Oh, and here's a bit more from our GFH friends upriver:

OUR OPINION: Peer-group comparisons can mislead on wages (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/235168/)

I'd like to comment on it, but the link is broken. I agree with some of what they said, but the big problem is professor breakdown I mentioned before. Full professors are at the top of the heap. They have either accomplished significant things while at NDSU, or they accomplished significant things at other places and were hired here because of it. That's why you pay them a lot. They are a valuable and limited commodity. Just because NDSU(or any research school) can attract hundreds of basically qualified candidates for a job opening doesn't mean much when you need someone special. Someone like that $200k+ guy we grabbed from Pfizer last year. We had a special need and needed to offer a large amount of money to get someone with the cred to get the job done. On the internal side, top pay for full professorships is a way to reward profs for decades of service to the university. It might take a prof 15-30 years to make it to full professor. I'd love to see the numbers of how many professors retire with less than five years as a full prof. I bet it's a bunch.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I'd say the Forum & GFH are using bad statistics to manufacture a case against NDSU/NDUS, but I don't think they're smart enough to understand what they don't know. I bet they don't even realize how skewed their numbers are.

edit: guess comments are working now - I'll have to add one later - time for bed now

[tony]

Oh, and here's a bit more from our GFH friends upriver:

OUR OPINION: Peer-group comparisons can mislead on wages (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/235168/) except when it comes to important jobs, like head hockey coach


What a surprise! Look, it's the Grand Forks Herald not bothering to do ANY research before basically accusing NDSU of some shady dealings.

Cue the Bismarck Tribune article in within the next week with even less research and a lot more bombast.

Plus, guess we'll know what drum KFGO will be beating on this week.

[stevdock]

Once again I don't see a problem with the Herald article. Had very little to do with NDSU vs. UND vs. NDUS. Instead had everything to do demand or proving there is a demand to increase salaries. I get that there were many years where professors went without raises but that can happen anywhere. But have the education services increased with the salaries?? I don't know the answer to that anymore as I deal with the education part of NDSU very little.

The one time I did about 5 years ago the answers I got from NDSU were not putting the student first. I went to ask about adding a HS teaching credential to my teaching license. NDSU told me I had to re-take all of my education classes because they do a portfolio system now and only taking a couple of classes is no longer an option and then take a few upper level math classes on top of that. This would have been between 10-12 classes or about a full year of school. Obviously not an option to someone who was working full time with a young family. Instead later that year I contacted the state department and they told me I have to take 2 math classes and then take a test. Once again went back to NDSU to figure out the fastest way to do this and was told one was only offered during the middle of the day in the fall and the other was offered middle of the day in the spring. Not an option for me, so I took 2 crappy classes through Mayville State online, finished them in 3 weeks learning absolutely nothing, but did have my increased certificate by the end of the fall and signed a new contract for the spring semester.

In my case the services NDSU offered did not meet the demand at all even though another school less than 1/10 the size can offer it?? Doesn't quite make sense to me and made it look like NDSU was more interested in my tuition dollars than actually helping me out.

[bisonaudit]

I'd say the Forum & GFH are using bad statistics to manufacture a case against NDSU/NDUS, but I don't think they're smart enough to understand what they don't know. I bet they don't even realize how skewed their numbers are.


Agree 100%. The innumeracy of most journalists/reporters, even good ones at big reputation newspapers is astonishing.

[Bison"FANatic"]

It would be interesting to know if there has been a exodus to higher paying jobs or if they have offered jobs and the offer was turned down after a salary counteroffer was rejected.

[KSBisonFan]

Agree 100%. The innumeracy of most journalists/reporters, even good ones at big reputation newspapers is astonishing.

There's my word of the day for the "words seen in print...." thread. :)

[tony]

You know what a cool story would be?

Look at a professor at NDSU who brings in $500,000 or more in research dollars a year, then project the economic effect of her leaving to the U of M versus Hakstol leaving to coach elsewhere.

Of course, doing a story like that would take critical thinking skills.

I wonder how much Tom Dennis thinks a full professor in Mechanical Engineering with a doctorate should be paid?

[bisonmike2]

Didn't see a pay related story today. Which means they are probably saving up for a ***breaking news**** alert later on.

[NorthernBison]

You know what a cool story would be?

Look at a professor at NDSU who brings in $500,000 or more in research dollars a year, then project the economic effect of her leaving to the U of M versus Hakstol leaving to coach elsewhere.

Of course, doing a story like that would take critical thinking skills.

I wonder how much Tom Dennis thinks a full professor in Mechanical Engineering with a doctorate should be paid?

Answer: He has no clue.

Yet, he feels comfortable stating opinions about something he is ignorant about. That is the definition of stupidity.

BTW, I understand ignorance. Everybody has things they are ignorant about. Stupidity is a completley different subject.

[EightyfourBison]

Once again, the Forum fails to provide an adequate basis for comparison as professors in high-tech fields are being directly compared to liberal arts counterparts simply because they're close in proximity. The average Rob Port type person is going to look at that and say "That's more than I make. NDSU number too big. Why they not as small as MSUM? Raaararrrrrrrrrr" and fling poo at NDSU for having the audacity to pay these people what they are worth in the marketplace. Another attack column from the local tabloid. Whatever they need to do to sell papers I guess.

Cue Rob Port with a snarky collection of misinterpreted facts in 3.....2...........1............................... .......

BOOM!

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/235265/group/Opinion/

[aces1180]

BOOM!

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/235265/group/Opinion/

The funny thing is, the more exposure this guy gets, the less people respect his opinion. He has actually polarized himself from credibility. Even UND supporters fans hate him.

[344Johnson]

BOOM!

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/235265/group/Opinion/

Oh dear Rob. Still not understanding why people care what a FULL PROFESSOR makes? Do they not want people to have incentive to go to school for at least 8 years?

[KSBisonFan]

BOOM!

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/235265/group/Opinion/

The only thing that article accomplished is the usual unsubstantiated claims and setting the world record for the most punctuation marks ever used in a headline. Idiot!,-,:,.,

[tony]

http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=56522

Minot State charges out-state-students the same rate as in-state students?

[Bison"FANatic"]

http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=56522

Minot State charges out-state-students the same rate as in-state students?

But this can't be true. Mr. Port and other anti out of state students have said that there was no upside to educating out of state students.

"Forty-seven point one percent from Minnesota stay here. Montana 46.5, other out of state 36.2, even foreign students, 32.9 stay here. We do a good job, so it makes sense that if there`s a demand out there, and we`re good at getting them to come here, we need to let them come."

It is nice to see some numbers put to this scenario as I was one of those out of state students that came to NDSU and ended up staying in ND. I have a lot of friends from NDSU that did the same thing.

[Tatanka]

http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=56522

Minot State charges out-state-students the same rate as in-state students?
I understand reciprocity but to not collect appropriate tuition from out-of-state students from places with no reciprocity is kind of wrong IMHO.

Bigger question (pun not intended, well, ok maybe) how has this escaped the ever watchful eye of rob port?
I'm guessing that it's easier for him to see distances when standing than for him to see down to his feet. Light rays, refraction, gravity, dark hole, etc. I'm sure.