Interesting Debate

[Bison06]

This has been discussed many times over the past couple of months and we don't necessarily need to get into all the details again, but this is an interesting tool that may shed some light on the discussion.

Who knows how accurate these things are, but I did find it interesting.

Check them out.

2006 Bison(Home) vs. 2011 Bison(Away): North Dakota St.(2006) wins 94 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)
2011 Bison(Home) vs. 2006 Bison(Away): North Dakota St.(2006) wins 49 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)

http://nationalsportsrankings.com/index.php?option=com_oneonone

[TransAmBison]

This has been discussed many times over the past couple of months and we don't necessarily need to get into all the details again, but this is an interesting tool that may shed some light on the discussion.

Who knows how accurate these things are, but I did find it interesting.

Check them out.

2006 Bison(Home) vs. 2011 Bison(Away): North Dakota St.(2006) wins 94 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)
2011 Bison(Home) vs. 2006 Bison(Away): North Dakota St.(2006) wins 49 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)

http://nationalsportsrankings.com/index.php?option=com_oneonone
How did I miss 200 home football games?

[DjKyRo]

How did I miss 200 home football games?

Ask Road, he was there.

[Notorious]

What's Crocket's status anyway?

[DjKyRo]

What's Crocket's status anyway?

It's available via interview on ESPN3. You need a subscription to the Midco Sports Pack to see it.

[Snowgoose]

Thanks Bison06 for this as I love this debate as I got trashed on here for even saying such a thing was possible. Realistically, my opinion only, is that the 06 team had some great NFL talent, but I think we all agree on here that the 11 team was deeper. I think in a one on one matchup 06 does win however 11 was probably better built for a playoff run. I actually liked to watch the 07 team the best as nothing was more fun than seeing Roehl get his roll on but they just ended up having too many injuries at the very end of the year.

[4mcruenomore]

How did I miss 200 home football games?

I think you need to go to AA

[HerdBot]

This has been discussed many times over the past couple of months and we don't necessarily need to get into all the details again, but this is an interesting tool that may shed some light on the discussion.

Who knows how accurate these things are, but I did find it interesting.

Check them out.

2006 Bison(Home) vs. 2011 Bison(Away): North Dakota St.(2006) wins 94 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)
2011 Bison(Home) vs. 2006 Bison(Away): North Dakota St.(2006) wins 49 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)

http://nationalsportsrankings.com/index.php?option=com_oneonone

It's not accurate at all. Not even worthy of a discussion.

Wisconsin(2011) wins 36 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)
Wisconsin(2011) wins 96 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 16 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Bison at the Alerus Center
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 94 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Bison at the Dome
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 16 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Makes no sense..
It says we beat Minnesoa 38% of the time but only beat Colorado State 9% of the time in 2011.
Minnesota(2011) wins 73 of 100 matchups against Colorado St.(2011)

Comical...
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 35 of 100 matchups against Lehigh(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 35 of 100 matchups against Sam Houston State (2011)

Realistic...
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 100 of 100 matchups against Lafayette(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 63 of 100 matchups against Georgia Southern(2011)

[Bison06]

It's not accurate at all. Not even worthy of a discussion.

Wisconsin(2011) wins 36 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)
Wisconsin(2011) wins 96 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 16 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Bison at the Alerus Center
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 94 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Bison at the Dome
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 16 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Makes no sense..
It says we beat Minnesoa 38% of the time but only beat Colorado State 9% of the time in 2011.
Minnesota(2011) wins 73 of 100 matchups against Colorado St.(2011)

Comical...
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 35 of 100 matchups against Lehigh(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 35 of 100 matchups against Sam Houston State (2011)

Realistic...
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 100 of 100 matchups against Lafayette(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 63 of 100 matchups against Georgia Southern(2011)

How does the system decide who wins? I am always skeptical of these types of computer simulated games, just thought it was interesting.

Doesn't hurt that it backed up my argument I suppose either. :)

As far as the NDSU vs. UND games in the dome, no doubt it is taking into account UND's track record in the Fargodome. That might account for the difference in the Fargodome games vs. the Alerus games.

[BISONBRI53]

How did I miss 200 home football games?

Too much tailgating!!

[TransAmBison]

Too much tailgating!!Does not compute. Rephrase?

[TransAmBison]

I think you need to go to AAI'm not a quitter. :D

[BisonNation11]

I tried that site once and it said in 100 match ups against OK in the Dome, SU 11 wins none and its max score in a game was 9. I know the odds of SU winning a game are slim, but only 9 points at home? The D could score that themselves given 100 chances. Interesting site nonetheless.

[HerdBot]

How would that explain Wisconsin beating us only 36% of the time and Wisconsin beating UND 96% of the tim! Its basically worthless.

[CalBison97]

Moments ago, I ran 2011 NDSU (home) vs. 2011 UND and it showed NDSU winning 100 out of 100. Projected score NDSU 34 - UND 12. Seems accurate enough for me! :biggrin:

[southcliffbison]

I think you need to go to AA


AA What's that ???? Automobile Academy ?

[bisonboone11]

Here is some more interesting information. According to Jeff Sagarin, who does sports ratings for USA Today, NDSU was the 37th best team in all of Division 1 football, which is higher than Arizona State, Iowa State, Iowa, and quite a few other big name teams. Here is the link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt11.htm

[EndZoneQB]

Here is some more interesting information. According to Jeff Sagarin, who does sports ratings for USA Today, NDSU was the 37th best team in all of Division 1 football, which is higher than Arizona State, Iowa State, Iowa, and quite a few other big name teams. Here is the link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt11.htm

Use the Elo_Chess ranking, which is 35. In 06/07, I thought we were much higher than that even.

[westnodak93bison]

But, but, but they are FBS! And several of the teams have won the NC.

[stevdock]

Use the Elo_Chess ranking, which is 35. In 06/07, I thought we were much higher than that even.

2006 Elo_Chess ranking 73.28 which was 48th.
2007 Elo_Chess ranking 69.25 which was 72nd.
2011 Elo_Chess ranking 77.34 which was 35th.

[CAS4127]

The 1986 team, and possibly the 1988 team, would have beat any of the teams being referenced here.

There, debate over-->just sayin'!!!

[Notorious]

The 1986 team, and possibly the 1988 team, would have beat any of the teams being referenced here.

There, debate over-->just sayin'!!!

True.....didn't even need a complex set of algorithms.... ;)


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[BadlandsBison]

The 1986 team, and possibly the 1988 team, would have beat any of the teams being referenced here.

There, debate over-->just sayin'!!!

Those teams had a particular weakness at OLB and probably weak at backup QB. They wouldn't have a chance ;)

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[Bison bison]

This.

Even Vigen would have found a way to exploit a hole in talent that big.

[RowdyRabbit]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that Bison fans, in general, believe the 06 Bison team was better that the 07 Bison team?

What makes that so?

Both teams went what...11-1, and being 07 was Roehl's and Walker's Senior seasons (I think), I would've thought the 07 team to be stronger. Especially since you beat UM handily in 07 but lost in 06. Was the rest of the schedule tougher in 06?

[CAS4127]

Those teams had a particular weakness at OLB and probably weak at backup QB. They wouldn't have a chance ;)

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This.

Even Vigen would have found a way to exploit a hole in talent that big.

Funny ... and deserved!!

[344Johnson]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that Bison fans, in general, believe the 06 Bison team was better that the 07 Bison team?

What makes that so?

Both teams went what...11-1, and being 07 was Roehl's and Walker's Senior seasons (I think), I would've thought the 07 team to be stronger. Especially since you beat UM handily in 07 but lost in 06. Was the rest of the schedule tougher in 06?

'06 we crushed the best team we played in Central Michigan. Dan LeFevour's Chippewa's ended up losing a shootout with Purdue. We coulda/shoulda/woulda'ed our way into losing to a Minnesota team that blew a 30-some point lead to Texas Tech in a bowl game. The '06 team was better in my opinion. Plus the '07 team had to get lucky on a couple trips in California. After the '07 Minnesota game, it seemed like the team played either A.) like they were sleepwalking until the 4th quarter, and/or B.) was pretty dinged up. And Roehl's senior season was '08. Real unfortunate he had to play during the Merten's Administration.

[344Johnson]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that Bison fans, in general, believe the 06 Bison team was better that the 07 Bison team?

What makes that so?

Both teams went what...11-1, and being 07 was Roehl's and Walker's Senior seasons (I think), I would've thought the 07 team to be stronger. Especially since you beat UM handily in 07 but lost in 06. Was the rest of the schedule tougher in 06?

We coulda/shoulda/woulda'ed our way into losing to a Minnesota team that blew a 30-some point lead to Texas Tech in a bowl game. The '06 team was better in my opinion. Plus the '07 team had to get lucky on a couple trips in California. After the '07 Minnesota game, it seemed like the team played either A.) like they were sleepwalking until the 4th quarter, and/or B.) was pretty dinged up. And Roehl's senior season was '08. Real unfortunate he had to play during the Merten's Administration.

[Bison06]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that Bison fans, in general, believe the 06 Bison team was better that the 07 Bison team?

What makes that so?

Both teams went what...11-1, and being 07 was Roehl's and Walker's Senior seasons (I think), I would've thought the 07 team to be stronger. Especially since you beat UM handily in 07 but lost in 06. Was the rest of the schedule tougher in 06?

Not sure what everyone else has to say about it, but I would say those two teams are very, very similar. What gives '06 the edge IMO, is on the D-line and Defensive backfield because of 2 players, Justin Frick and Craig Dahl. Without those two players in '07 the defense IMO wasn't quite as dominant.

I think not having Travis White at receiver was also a step down from '06 to '07.

[Bison06]

'06 we crushed the best team we played in Central Michigan. Dan LeFevour's Chippewa's ended up losing a shootout with Purdue. We coulda/shoulda/woulda'ed our way into losing to a Minnesota team that blew a 30-some point lead to Texas Tech in a bowl game. The '06 team was better in my opinion. Plus the '07 team had to get lucky on a couple trips in California. After the '07 Minnesota game, it seemed like the team played either A.) like they were sleepwalking until the 4th quarter, and/or B.) was pretty dinged up. And Roehl's senior season was '08. Real unfortunate he had to play during the Merten's Administration.

Central Michigan was '07.

[344Johnson]

Central Michigan was '07.

Just looked it out cause it didn't sound right when i put that.

[Bison06]

The 1986 team, and possibly the 1988 team, would have beat any of the teams being referenced here.

There, debate over-->just sayin'!!!

Did you guys have to walk up hill both ways to practice too?

[CAS4127]

Did you guys have to walk up hill both ways to practice too?

No, both the offense and defense were always going up hill, with just the opposite for the opponent ... odd the way it work, really!!

[4mcruenomore]

The 1986 Bison team is the best we've ever had, no doubt CAS. No way our 2011 Offense could have scored more than 1 TD on them.

[Bison06]

The 1986 Bison team is the best we've ever had, no doubt CAS. No way our 2011 Offense could have scored more than 1 TD on them.

Wish I would have been old enough to watch those teams.

[BadlandsBison]

This.

Even Vigen would have found a way to exploit a hole in talent that big.

Whoa, hit the breaks there partner.

[344Johnson]

No, both the offense and defense were always going up hill, with just the opposite for the opponent ... odd the way it work, really!!

Curious as to who won those battles in practice.

[Bison06]

1640
No, both the offense and defense were always going up hill, with just the opposite for the opponent ... odd the way it work, really!!

Did the field look something like this?

[CAS4127]

1640

Did the field look something like this?

I meant to say both were always going down hill-->do you have another applicable picture?!

[Notorious]

The 1986 Bison team is the best we've ever had, no doubt CAS. No way our 2011 Offense could have scored more than 1 TD on them.

^^^^this^^^^


Sent from my iPhone.

[semobison]

The 1986 Bison team is the best we've ever had, no doubt CAS. No way our 2011 Offense could have scored more than 1 TD on them.

Yep, the 86 team was dominant! Avereaged 41.5 ppg while giving up 6.7 ppg going 13-0!

[Bison06]

Yep, the 86 team was dominant! Avereaged 41.5 ppg while giving up 6.7 ppg going 13-0!

How much of the dominance had to do with poor competition? I wasn't old enough to watch those games, so I have no idea.

[HandoEX]

We coulda/shoulda/woulda'ed our way into losing to a Minnesota team that blew a 30-some point lead to Texas Tech in a bowl game. The '06 team was better in my opinion. Plus the '07 team had to get lucky on a couple trips in California. After the '07 Minnesota game, it seemed like the team played either A.) like they were sleepwalking until the 4th quarter, and/or B.) was pretty dinged up. And Roehl's senior season was '08. Real unfortunate he had to play during the Merten's Administration.
There was ONE California comeback in both '06 (Davis) and '07 (Poly).

Your fact checking sucks :)

[BisonAccountant44]

There was ONE California comeback in both '06 (Davis) and '07 (Poly).

Your fact checking sucks :)

Sam Houston wasn't a comeback?

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[HandoEX]

Sam Houston wasn't a comeback?

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It wasn't in California, was it?

[BisonAccountant44]

It wasn't in California, was it?

Ah, missed the California qualifier

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[CAS4127]

How much of the dominance had to do with poor competition? I wasn't old enough to watch those games, so I have no idea.

Rocky and the Georgia Southern coach from the 80's when GS was winning NC's watched several game films of our 86 and 88 teams and GS coach stated: "I don't think we could have handled you guys". Also, when Solomonsen left for Montana State he was asked if he would schedule us. His response as quoted by the Forum: "I don't think we are ready for that yet", and MSU had won a NC just a few years earlier. We also tried to schedule UNI for 88 season down there and they declined. We probably didn't have the depth of our recent teams, but I would put the starters on the same field with any of the recent teams any Saturday.

[westnodak93bison]

Tough to compare teams two and a half decades apart imho. How do you suppose the 86' D line would have handled any recent Bison OL 2004-2012? I don't have access to the 86' roster and I don't remember their playing weights but I suppose the weight difference would be fairly significant. I just don't see how they would have handled guys like Buckman, Richard, Safe, Cornick, Foster etc. I also don't see how a one dimensional rushing attack would do anything against the 2012 defense. 2012 team is too big, too fast, too much depth, too well conditioned and too well coached to get beat by any 80's or the 1990 Bison team imho. Again this is just my armchair opinion with no disrespect to any Bison player or coach.

[ebemiss]

It's not accurate at all. Not even worthy of a discussion.

Wisconsin(2011) wins 36 of 100 matchups against North Dakota St.(2011)
Wisconsin(2011) wins 96 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 16 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Bison at the Alerus Center
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 94 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Bison at the Dome
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 16 of 100 matchups against North Dakota(2011)

Makes no sense..
It says we beat Minnesoa 38% of the time but only beat Colorado State 9% of the time in 2011.
Minnesota(2011) wins 73 of 100 matchups against Colorado St.(2011)

Comical...
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 35 of 100 matchups against Lehigh(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 35 of 100 matchups against Sam Houston State (2011)

Realistic...
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 100 of 100 matchups against Lafayette(2011)
North Dakota St.(2011) wins 63 of 100 matchups against Georgia Southern(2011)

As the creator of this simulation, and site, you're incorrect saying the ratings and results aren't accurate or not worthy of a discussion. I just ran some of the simulations that you've posted, including Wisconsin vs N. Dakota St and didn't get any of the results you listed. I would suggest running thousand's of games when comparing two teams before bashing it.

After that, if you are still getting results that don't seem realistic maybe I made a mistake inputting a ranking and I can correct a certain team. However saying that it's not worthy of discussion is inaccurate. My rankings are among the best in the country and are the driving force behind these simulations.

I stumbled across this thread and just wanted to set the record straight. Here's what my numbers "actually" suggest what would happen if N. Dakota St played Wisconsin from 2011. (Margin about 25-30 points at Wisconsin)

http://www.nationalsportsrankings.com/index.php?option=com_oneonone&magic=79125

Like I said, I may have made a mistake inputting a team into the database or ranking a certain team. However stating that my simulation or rankings are not accurate or not being worthy of a discussion is close minded and wrong.

I don't expect everyone to agree with every "suggested" outcome especially when comparing teams from different years and era's, I just don't think it's open minded to dismiss the outcomes as inaccurate either.

Glad I found this thread. I've been asked on many different platforms about my site and the thing I always say is "it's not perfect, but it's a great conversation starter".

Any suggestions or ideas for the site is always appreciated, also I don't mind constructive criticism either, I just have a hard time when someone dismisses the work I've done as not worthy of a discussion.